Upgrading The Atlanta Braves Bullpen

by gondeee on Apr 28, 2011 11:45 AM EDT

This post is basically about why Stephen Marek should be on the team tomorrow.

The Braves bullpen has not been that bad. In fact, it's been pretty good. They have compiled a 2.88 ERA in 75 innings of work, good enough for the sixth best ERA in the National League. In fact they've given up the fewest runs per game (3.19) in the National League. So why then am I talking about upgrading the bullpen?

The answer is, because there are still some soft spots, and on a team that hasn't gotten it's offense going yet, even the smallest hole in a strong overall unit can become a problem. And so within this sixth best bullpen is a hole, a gaping hole: the seventh inning. Chipper Jones laid it out a few days ago:

"I was saying tonight, the most important inning in every single ballgame that we play this year is the seventh. The seventh inning. If we get through the seventh, we’re fine. If we don’t get through the seventh, we’re going to get beat. It changes the whole outlook of the game."

Here is a breakdown of the Braves pitching per inning in 2011:

	ERA	R	H	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
1st inning	6.58	19	36	.330	.413	.440	.853
2nd inning	3.46	12	27	.270	.315	.320	.635
3rd inning	3.12	9	21	.221	.224	.400	.624
4th inning	2.77	8	21	.226	.301	.366	.667
5th inning	1.38	4	22	.229	.237	.250	.487
6th inning	1.04	3	13	.153	.265	.282	.548
7th inning	5.54	16	30	.291	.371	.427	.798
8th inning	1.38	4	21	.221	.275	.284	.559
9th inning	1.35	4	8	.123	.194	.185	.379

Aside from the troubles our starters have had in the first inning, that seventh inning stands out as the most obvious problem child at the end of games. The presence of Peter Moylan on the disabled list is part of why Atlanta is missing its seventh inning man, but among the other relievers in the bullpen, no one has stepped up and assumed the role of getting the team to Jonny Venters and Craig Kimbrel in the eighth and ninth.

This is where the Braves could improve. They don't just need a decent bullpen arm, they need a shutdown bullpen arm. If you've been paying attention to the Gwinnett Braves games, you'll know that one exists. Reliever Stephen Marek has appeared in eight games, has given up only five hits, walked none, and struck out 14. There's a guy with good control, an obvious ability to strike batters out, and a proven track record in the minor leagues of being able to handle tough situations late in ballgames.

There are a few candidates for removal from Atlanta's pen. George Sherrill is the most obvious. He's the second left-hander out of the pen, and he simply hasn't been used that much. He's only thrown 4.2 innings in the eight games he's appeared in, and the left-handed batters he enters the game to get out are hitting .333 against him. The lack of work coupled with the lack of effectiveness against lefties leads me to believe that Fredi Gonzalez may have lost confidence in him.

Scott Linebrink has been a weak spot in the bullpen as well, especially since serving as the de facto seventh inning man. He factored heavily in two losses on the just completed road trip, each time giving up key hits which led to runs in the seventh inning.

These are small samples, and maybe we're overreacting to a bullpen that has been quite good overall. But when a guy is putting up the kind of numbers that Marek is putting up at triple-A, I just can't believe the team would let him sit there while needing another shutdown reliever in their pen.

It's time to give Marek a chance. However they manipulate their roster before Friday's game, they need to make a spot on the Major League club for Stephen Marek.

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Comments

Does Sherril have any contract issues that would prevent him from being sent to Gwinnett?

by newportVOL on Apr 28, 2011 11:50 AM EDT reply actions

Sherill is not going to Gwinnett. He is on the roster, DL, or waived.

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Sounds like phantom injury time…..60 day DL.

"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."

by EricGreggWasPaidOff on Apr 28, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Ruptured success gland.

by Ivan the Great on Apr 28, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 9 recs

WIN

"Life is a lot like a baseball game- you want your team to win, you want it to be a thriller, you don't want it to be called short on account of nature, and you wouldn't mind if it went into extra innings." -Dante Shepherd, survivingtheworld.net

by J-Freak on Apr 28, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Rec'd

"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson

by Doghnut on Apr 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Green

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

DirecTV

has been blacking out ATL games for me, but I’ve been getting the Gwinnet games, and I have been really impressed with Marek. I would love to see him get his chance.

by thenightstallion on Apr 28, 2011 11:52 AM EDT reply actions

Stephen Marek's SO/BB ratio this year:

∞

That Heyward guy is pretty good.

by another simpsons avatar on Apr 28, 2011 11:52 AM EDT reply actions

Good sir...

with all due respect…only Chuck Norris can divide by zero

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 12:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

Or Jason Heyward

Admired as a saint. Defined by my rank. Combined with my strength. My time and my length.

by ArmyITSpec on Apr 28, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Jason Heyward

can divide by Chuck Norris.

by BrockSamson on Apr 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

marek

Free stephen marek

by jailbarjacks on Apr 28, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Marek is going to have to kidnap someone’s kid in the front office in order to get called up. They would call up Juan Abreu before him probably.

by Eagles365 on Apr 28, 2011 11:56 AM EDT reply actions

This is what I want to see....

Kimbrel
Venters
EOF
*Gearrin (replaced by Moylan when he returns from DL)
Marek (replacing Linebrink)
*Asencio (replacing Sherrill, replaced by Abreu, if he struggles)
Martinez (replaced by Medlen in August)

*Or Gearrin could possibly stay and take Asencio’s spot when Moylan returns….

"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."

by EricGreggWasPaidOff on Apr 28, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions

+1

Linebrink and Sherrill have to go. They’re like Manny Acosta, pitchers that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

by John Holton on Apr 28, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Jairo Asencio has not done good in the time with us this year. He’s the one who gave up the lead in the 9-6 win over SanFran that put the pressure on the Braves offense. even if uggla came to life and tied it with a homer.

Heyward lines a shot off the back of Collin Ballester, the Nats' pitcher and into left center field. The hit was so brutal, even Heyward could feel the vibration coming back at him.

by ChopMaster on Apr 29, 2011 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions

He also pitched 5 scoreless innings before that. One bad outing isn’t a big deal. Asencio is a good pitcher.

by gilley on Apr 29, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Marek's

proven he can pitch at AAA already, too. 50+IP and 1.43ERA in 2010. Let’s let this kid have a shot!

by joshmaurer on Apr 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions

marek

free stephen marek, free stephen marek

by jailbarjacks on Apr 28, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Was Marek the other half of the Tex to Ana deal?

"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson

by Doghnut on Apr 28, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions

I believe Marek was a piece in that trade…or sequence of trades. I’m a little fuzzy on the details, but the short answer is yes.

"Never doubt Derek Lowe's ability to win despite himself."

by EricGreggWasPaidOff on Apr 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

On July 30, 2008, Marek and Casey Kotchman were traded to the Braves for first baseman Mark Teixeira.

by joshmaurer on Apr 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep, he and Krotchman.

by goesbetterwithbeer on Apr 28, 2011 12:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

One glaring flaw to this idea

It makes far too much sense.

by goesbetterwithbeer on Apr 28, 2011 12:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Second flaw...

Moving about $3M in salary to other clubs, for current ineffectiveness. We would have to wait until these guys start pitching better before we moved the veterans. I say we give it 2 months before we move anybody…

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

But if they had more success, they’d be kept.

Sunk costs are sunk costs. I’d release those two.

by Broccoman on Apr 28, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

And you'd be a fool for doing so...

It’s still April, folks. Good God.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

The question is:

Why has Marek not been up already? The front office is not dumb and they see the numbers, so what is the holdup? Is he next in line to Gearrin and just waiting for the FO to open up a spot?

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions

Gearrin was a GB specialist, that’s why he was called up in Moylan’s absence.

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 12:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

This is when we learn

just how much like Bobby Cox Fredi will be. Bobby would have stuck with Sherrill / Linebrink for at least another month or so. He was loyal to a fault.

Here’s hoping that Fredi & Wren are not quite that loyal to two pitchers who’ve only been here since this offseason.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I now twitter as @junkstats and blog about made-up stats and general baseball stuff at JunkStats.

by Jacob Peterson on Apr 28, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

Hold on...

Let’s say we bring up Marek, Abreu, and possibly Gearrin…assuming we luck out and someone takes Linebrink and Sherrill without additional compensation. If the young guys screw up then what??

It’s awfully knee-jerk to write 2 pitchers off with only 15 IP between them and we’re sitting at .500 with more road game played than home games.

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

true... but

Is there not a reason why they only have 15IP thus far? If we cant trust them, we are going to end up killing the other arms which are good and have nobody and dead weight. Tough decisions, but the money does make it pretty easy at this point

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't forget...

all of the extra-inning games, road games, and recent struggles of our starters making I to the 6th (the LA series I’m referring to). Let’s give it some time to breath…

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 12:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I think Linebrink has gotten a little unlucky so far.

But, Sherrill…yeah, it’s pretty ugly.

by beeswax on Apr 28, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions

With 11 lefties face Sherrill has given up no runs and has a xFIP and FIP of 1.75. As long as he faces only lefties he’s doing exactly what he was signed to do. Linebrink on the other hand sucks and has has sucked since leaving the padres.

by MaggotBrain on Apr 28, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

This is good fan fodder, but I really don’t think Linebrink or Sherrill are going anywhere until it’s been decided and agreed upon that the bullpen is better off a) trading up for better relievers or b) waiving them and using a bullpen with 3 rookies and 1 second year guy with no valid veteran presence to replace them if they falter.

Unless one or the other get hurt, I really don’t think either is going anywhere before June. And it’s almost certain neither are getting assigned to AAA to bring up a rookie.

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 12:43 PM EDT reply actions

I think we should give Gearin a shot since he is already up.

Have Marek replace Sherril, and when Moylan comes back off of the DL, have him replace Linebrink.

That would give us Moylan, Venters and Kimbrel for the 7th, 8th, 9th, and EOF, Gearin, Martinez and Ascencio for situational specialists.

Of course, I wouldn’t be opposed to sending Ascencio down too in favor of bringing up a 3rd C to allow Ross to PH.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions

this

Completely agree with you here

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions

are you proposing sending to AAA or cutting them or either/or? I just don’t think that the Braves are sending these guys to AAA ever.

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

lol

know you were replying to him, but I like the idea of slowly cutting ties with them like he has above. Allows for Vets to stay while the young guns get more experience

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

However, it is not allowed.

Both Sherrill and Linebrink are veterans on major league contracts who have long since run out of options. Both would have to clear waivers and then accept a demotion (as opposed to becoming a free agent) in order to be sent to AAA. It just isn’t going to happen; they will either stay up or be released.

by cavebird on Apr 28, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions

And if claimed off waivers, we'd be off the hook for the full salary right?...

as said with Sherrill, might not be a bad idea if we think we can get some other lefties to do the job should EOF or Venters go down, maybe reclaiming Hyde or Ortegano who’ve been waived lately.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Minus veteran minimum on each...

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

So we'd be responsible for their salary...

minus the veteran minimum? Then bad idea based on the numbers you posted. I’d have been for it if we could add some lefty depth to AAA and save a couple mil by putting Marek in for Sherrill once a team picked him up.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep...

Looking at about $1.5mm for Linebrink if waived and $7-800K for Sherrill, if other teams picked them up.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions

You're my boy, -C

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

reply fail...

are you proposing sending to AAA or cutting them or either/or? I just don’t think that the Braves are sending these guys to AAA ever.

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I would be happy with either situation – cut ’em, send them down, trade them for some sunflower seeds. As long as they are gone, I would be happy.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions

haha, fair enough.

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, by the way, is everyone still thrilled to death that Wren spent our entire F/A account on two relief arms because they are veterans?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions

win some, lose some

After all, he did the same thing last year (Some guy named Wagner and Saito?), granted Sherill and Linebring arent big names, but we also didnt have a lot of money either

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

We gave Wagner something like $7M and Saito $3M, IIRC, and both of those guys are far and away better than Linebrink and Sherril.

Wren also went out and acquired Troy Glaus, so he didn’t spend our entire budget on two guys due to their veteren presence.

And there is a HUGE difference between the best lefty closer of all time and Scott Linebrink.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

which is why I said of course we didnt have alot of money. If you can get Wags for 3 mil himself, DAMN! Plus, Wagner had some concerns attached. Its not the same situation, granted, but he was taking a chance and getting vets – similar concept

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions

are we gonna get a bigger budget when we get a new owner? I dont like liberty media.

Heyward lines a shot off the back of Collin Ballester, the Nats' pitcher and into left center field. The hit was so brutal, even Heyward could feel the vibration coming back at him.

by ChopMaster on Apr 29, 2011 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions

What was the solution? Two veteran middle relief arms for $3M vs starting the season with a rookie closer, 2nd year set up man whose arm died last year toward the end of the season, 1 LOOGY, 1 ROOGY, Martinez, AND two other rookie RHP? That leaves no ML ready depth unless you count Abreu and Ascensio.

I just wonder how FW could have managed it better. It’s still April.

by CharlotteChop on Apr 28, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

All of that bp depth that we have now…yeah, that was what we should have went with.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions

no

because with an injury or two we would have been in trouble

by Braves24 on Apr 28, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Perhaps I should explain what “depth” means…

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Unproven, suspect depth...

in guys like Marek and Gearrin who at the beginning of the year had never pitched in the bigs, and more depth of a similar ilk below. I’m not saying it’d been a bad idea, and I liked the idea of going with a kiddie core bullpen ala the A’s of late, but that doesn’t, in my mind at least, give justification for saying Sherrill and Linebrink couldn’t capably fill the role required of them.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

We also spent some money to acquire Dan Uggla and resign Eric Hinske.

by gilley on Apr 28, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Cause the Hairston brothers and other "veteran" bench possibilities...

have really been tearing it up haven’t they?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Has the deadline for signing players already passed?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Can ya name any available you think would be a good idea to sign?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Troy Glaus

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Not sure why...

Freddie’s hitting lefties. As long as he continues to do so, there’s no place for Glaus.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions

All I'd want for our bench

is a replacement level middle infielder.

by Bronn on Apr 28, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Off the bench, would you rather have Brooks Conrad, Brandon Hicks or Troy Glaus? I’ll take Glaus all day, every day as a PH.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions

There has to be a shortstop on the bench, so Hicks is left out of this debate (at least in my mind). He’s obviously the worst of the options at the plate, but someone capable defensively has to man that spot.

Maybe Glaus over Conrad, to be honest, especially if we don’t plan on using either in the field. If we have to depend on Conrad’s spot for defense at any time, I go Conrad over Glaus and wouldn’t think twice about it.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll gladly take your sloppy seconds, and not think once about it. :)

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions

There's a reason you're not a GM/manager

and it’s proven time and again by your comments. Glaus retired for a reason. Glaus was a shell of his early season self once July rolled around. Glaus is done, and you probably need another stick to keep beating that Conrad horse.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions

There is a reason – you are correct. But it’s not the reason you give.

Glaus retired because nobody signed him. Glaus would be just fine in a PH only role.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions

“Glaus would be just fine in a PH only role.”

Every MLB GM obviously disagrees, or one would have likely signed him considering he wasn’t demanding much in salary. He didn’t even go the Blalock/etc route and spend a little time in AAA until a roster had room for him somewhere. But you have your opinion, based all on speculation.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 7:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Every MLB GM obviously disagrees…But you have your opinion, based all on speculation.

Oh the irony.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Was anyone wanting him? Why did he retire if he can still play?

But I guess our injured AA ace is actually a #3 starter too isn’t he?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions

On many teams, yes, he would be.

This is fun. Let’s see how many other old debates you can bring up.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Of course he would be...

that’s why those teams are watching him get knocked around in AA.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions

"Let’s see how many other old debates you can bring up."

Like your winter long campaign against Sherrill and Linebrink? I get it, let’s only rehash old, tired arguments when it makes you look smart, not the countless times you ran off at the mouth and were proven utterly, completely, and foolishly wrong.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Because Sherril and Linebrink are old, irrelevant news?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Whether or not we should sign them certainly is...

they’re here. You didn’t like the move. We all got it about the 12,375th time you posted it. But that horse is still twitching ain’t it? Why not go for another whack.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 30, 2011 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions

Hate to break this to everyone...

But Linebrink and Sherrill are not the reason we’re only 13-13…

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 12:57 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

but

they are the reason this entry was formed! I think we all know that, but to the point of gondee, we need to improve as many facets of the team as we can…

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Dan Uggla is OPSing at a .600 clip and we’re skewering 2 relievers over 15 IP? Any suggestions to improve the offensive productivity out of 2B??

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 1:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I have a suggestion – let it be. It will happen.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Why isnt that same courtesy and patience extended to Linebrink and Sherrill? They are both veterans who have shown a track record of pitching better than this…

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 2:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

didnt say we shouldnt, but Uggla has a good career avg and is known to be a slow starter. Its not like Linebrink or Sherrill ever lit it up – especially last year?

by dean0uga on Apr 28, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Um…their track record does not suggest that they are in their prime or that they should get better.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Um...

Uggla’s track record would say he’s on the backend of his “prime” and should be beginning to decline. Not quite the same, but not far off either.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m reading this to say that Uggla is a guy in his prime and that Linebrink and Sherril are not.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually, Uggla could easily be out of his prime...

but I wouldn’t say that now based on the SSS to start the season. But it’s not impossible that his prime ended last year.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure it does...

If, you know, you actually go and look at the stats.

Linebrink’s xFIP is 3.30. He’s just been bit with the HR bug thus far. His BABIP is also .375, which is preposterously high because of the SSS.

Similarly, Sherrill boasts a 1.75 FIP and xFIP against lefties, the batters he’s on the roster to face. Unfortunately, lefties have a .429 BABIP against Sherrill…not even remotely sustainable.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Well done C

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

+1

by Braves24 on Apr 28, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions

really

those are his career stats?!?!?!?

by dean0uga on Apr 29, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions

No...

They’re this year’s stats, which are obviously still SSS. However, they do prove that these pitchers haven’t been as horrible as claimed this year.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 29, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

They definitely could have been worse. No argument there.

However, are they worth what we are paying them?

It’s like the KK situation – we simply have better options at a cheaper rate now. Except these guys aren’t getting banished to AA and then getting DL’d.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

We have unproven options that may be better, sure. They may also be worse, and have no veteran relievers to look to when the road gets rocky.

I know you don’t put much stock in veteran presence, but I personally prefer not to do trapeze work without a net.

All this said, I have no real issues with reducing the number of “veteran” BP guys to one next season. And, no, that one isn’t Moylan.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 29, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Because Uggla’s actually a very good player, and those two haven’t been in years?

by Broccoman on Apr 28, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Because he was crying about signing Linebrink and Sherrill all offseason

but not the Uggla deal. The two relief arms that are struggling give him a chance to say I told ya so, while Uggla doesn’t.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I was thrilled to death that we traded for Uggla. I am not thrilled with the contract that we extended him to. Neither of those things have anything to do with whether or not Uggla is more proven than Sherril or Linebrink, which he is.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions

And his past has no bearing on his future...

same as Sherrill and Linebrink.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Why are we even discussing the 3 in the same conversation?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Going back up through the thread,...

I’d say because of how you said both were scrubs and used faulty stats to try and prove it (faulty according to -C’s #s).

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 7:06 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m pretty sure I didn’t use any stats in this particular discussion – and your post doesn’t pass the logic test.

Me: Why are we talking about Dan Uggla?
You: Because you don’t like Sherril and Linebrink
Me: Wha…?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Nope, you didn't post stats...

you did comment about their “track record” (i.e. stats).

And before I commented here was this exchange…

Why isnt that same courtesy and patience extended to Linebrink and Sherrill? They are both veterans who have shown a track record of pitching better than this…by TBuzz

Um…their track record does not suggest that they are in their prime or that they should get better. by justin

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Both of which are true statements.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions

wait a week or two.

by Broccoman on Apr 28, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Julio teheren?

When Teheren gets called up, is he going to the pen, or will someone in our starting rotation go to the pen?

by Braves Biceps on Apr 28, 2011 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

No sense in making him pitch relief.

by Bronn on Apr 28, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess Beachy would be moved to the Pen?

by Braves Biceps on Apr 28, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Probably no sense calling Teheran up at all this year, unless there’s a need because of injury. Let him make his debut in the majors as a starting pitcher. Meaning, we’ll end up trading someone, some time.

by Bronn on Apr 28, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I just think Teheran will pitch so well that he forces a call up...

not that we can’t afford to keep him down, or have others to fill a rotation spot, but he’ll pitch so dominantly in AAA that we MAY have to bring him on up.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

You guys are forgetting Medlen.

by Broccoman on Apr 28, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Unrelated note:

The Braves are tied for 4th in the majors in home runs despite playing the entire season in parks that favor pitchers. The Braves Offense will be just fine.

That Heyward guy is pretty good.

by another simpsons avatar on Apr 28, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions

This is all fun academically, but Sherrill and LInebrink aren’t goin anywhere, at least not for a few months. In fact, Gearrin is probably getting sent back to AAA Friday and getting replaced with an outfielder. The team isn’t going to give up on two expensive veterans after a month and go with a bullpen that consists of almost entirely rookies. That’s just not realistic and it’s not going to happen.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Apr 28, 2011 1:49 PM EDT reply actions

word up

by beeswax on Apr 28, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

this

by Braves24 on Apr 28, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Way too early to cut bait now.

At least with Linebrink, who has been fine over his career except with longball struggles when he pitched in a hitter’s park in Chicago.

As for Sherrill, it is too early to say he can’t get lefties out, the sample size is too small. On the other hand, he hasn’t been able to get righties out for years. If we decide we don’t need a third lefty/second LOOGY, we could cut him for that reason. He was probably brought in because we thought Venters might close, making EOF the only lefty available before the ninth. Since Kimbrel has taken the closers role and run with it, Sherrill isn’t really necessary.

Remember, it is just April and Linebrink and Sherrill aren’t as bad, nor is Marek as good, as the small sample sizes show. And cutting Linebrink and Sherrill means you don’t have them in reserve if the kids struggle later, because they can’t be sent to AAA without passing waivers and accepting the demotion (they could choose to become free agents instead). We have played on 26 games out of 162. It is just way too early to make kneejerk moves. Now Marek may belong up instead of Gearrin or Asencio, but only one of the three will stay up now as we will bring up an OF by tomorrow.

by cavebird on Apr 28, 2011 1:53 PM EDT reply actions

The only point I’d argue is that Marek isn’t as good as he’s been pitching. He’s been really damn good at AAA. In 65.1 innings over 63 appearances over 3 seasons he has a 1.79 ERA, a 1.16 WHIP, and 10.2 K/9.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Apr 28, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s sexy.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

I was gonna say the same...

if you include last year, Marek’s dominance at AAA isn’t really a small sample size anymore, and he has been dominant going back to last year (although the year before he was much worse).

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

marek

free stephen marek

by jailbarjacks on Apr 28, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Blaiming Linebrink and Sherrill has become part of the narrative of the season to date. In truth, they haven’t even pitched that badly, either. Linebrink has been racking up the Ks, maybe not at the rate that Kimbrel is, but he’s doing all right. He’s been a good pitcher in his career. And Sherill is a great LOOGY, his problem has been that he’s faced both lefties and righties fairly equally.

It’s a bit naive to think that promoting Marek, or really anyone, is going to make a huge difference in our bullpen.

by Bronn on Apr 28, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree...

you have a guy with an OPS of .600 as your cleanup hitter. I don’t hear anybody foaming at the mouth to get rid of Uggla.

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Maybe because he’s shown that he is good at what he does, while the two relievers in question have not.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

With all due respect...

Uggla should be OPSing over .800 and striking out less. He can go 1-5 and hit solo DINGERZ with the best of them.

Linebrink and Sherrill have the capability of going scoreless the next 10 IP each of them pitch. The fact they haven’t yet doesn’tean it won’t happen.

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 2:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

This just doesn’t make any sense. Uggla has consistently been one of the best offensive 2B in baseball for the last 5 years.

Linebrink and Sherril? Yeah, not so much.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

So basically…your crystal ball looks different than my crystal ball and we should leave it there.

by TBuzz on Apr 28, 2011 3:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Except

his crystal ball uses facts and logic and yours just doesn’t.

by DreamWithinADream on Apr 28, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

TBUzz's isn't that bad here...

both Linebrink and Sherrill have both shown the ability to produce much better than they have so far. Justin is right that Uggla should get better based on past productivitiy, but so should Linebrink and Sherrill for the same reason.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not saying Linebrink and Sherril suck. Both are adequate pitchers that would probaby be beneficial to other teams.

It’s like KK here. He’d help out other teams, but currently, for the Atlanta Braves organization, he is a man without a job, and is a waste of money.

We can get equal or better production from our in-house options for far cheaper than what it is costing us for these two. They were both unecessary signings.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

And if Gearrin and Marek were already in the rotation...

we couldn’t call them up when guys like Moylan get hurt. To have depth, you actually have to have depth not in the big league pen.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Which we do…

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Thanks to Sherrill and Linebrink being on the roster...

and squeezing them out to AAA. Otherwise, we’d be relying on Juan Abreu, Scott Proctor, and Yohan Flande from AAA, and that is if they weren’t already on the MLB roster. Something you’d probably prefer as choices 13, 14, and 15 for the bullpen (which they are) instead of choices 8, 9, and 10 which they’d be if Wren didn’t spend a little on Sherrill and Linebrink.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions

So, if it weren’t for Sherril and Linebrink, we would have no pitching depth at all.

Thanks for clearing that up. Now, I am so thankful that Wren brought both of them in. Best move of the offseason, IMO!

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually...

His magic ball used neither. Go actually look at the statistics.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think anyone is really blaming them for our misfortunes, except for the innings in which they cause those misfortunes.

Nobody that I have seen is giving the offense a free pass here. We all know it is drastically underperforming.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Marek should 2nd

Our pitching depth is absurd. If we are buying a bat at the deadline, there is plenty to choose from.

by hoyabinx on Apr 28, 2011 2:02 PM EDT reply actions

Marek should pitch 2nd half

post fail.

by hoyabinx on Apr 28, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Marek should be up instead of Sherrill

Linebrink doesn’t have bad peripherals, and he’s throwing pretty hard, so I’d keep him around. Gearrin should stick around over guys like CM and JA

by kbertling353 on Apr 28, 2011 2:41 PM EDT reply actions

The bullpen should be

Martinez
Marek
Gearrin
EOF
Moylan
Venters
Kimbrel

Don't pull Kimbrel, Bobby. Don't do it. Dang it Bobby!!

by georgiadawgsfan on Apr 28, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions

Bring up...

Scott Proctor!

by luffy_kun on Apr 28, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions

yay

An AJC type comment…

but seriously, put the crack-pipe down and step away.

by Santaklose11 on Apr 28, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

These are small samples, and maybe we’re overreacting to a bullpen that has been quite good overall.

by Braves24 on Apr 28, 2011 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

Imagine how good the BP numbers would be without those two…

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Almost certainly, it would be a barely noticeable difference. You can’t just remove their numbers and look at the rest of the guys, you have to imagine that someone else is pitching the innings that Linebrink and Sherrill are pitching. By definition, those are guys who we didn’t think would be as reliable as Venters or Marek. You could probably expect them to be as reliable as Asencio or Cristhian Martinez.

It’s not like Gearrin has posted elite numbers above high A. Not even Marek has been unmistakably dominant in his pitching. Just go back to 2009 and he’s average at best.

by Bronn on Apr 28, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Martinez has been great, except for when he was left in for a 3rd inning immediately after being forced to “run” the bases.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 28, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, I forgot that justin uses odd discretion about when he looks beyond the current year and when he doesn’t in assessing talent level.

by Bronn on Apr 29, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions

and imagine

how bad it could be with an injury or two if we didn’t have them….

by Braves24 on Apr 28, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions

See Moylan, Peter.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Who can be replaced by Cory Gearrin instead of

Juan Abreu thanks to Sherrill and Linebrink. You were saying?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 29, 2011 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions

That we have pitching depth and that Linebrink and Sherril were unnecessary signings.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Apr 29, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Sherrill I’d get rid of- he just isn’t cutting it. Gearrin pitched really well, I’d ride his hot head and see what happens.

Marek I’d call up if any injuries happen before August- and see what he can do, otherwise I’d keep Linebrick until August, phantom DL him when Medlen’s ready then call him up in September.

We go get Medlen back this year- that will help the pen out considerably (he ain’t starting this year, and I wouldn’t want him to, but I do want him to get ML innings so he can compete for a starter job in 2012- Medlen >= Beachy if Medlen’s fully recovered)

So 1/2 this problem will solve itself by the end of the year. It’s Sherrill that I want gone

by Broccoman on Apr 28, 2011 3:53 PM EDT reply actions

I am really high on Marek, but I am not sure if he is better than Asencio. They are pretty similar in terms of quality. I know Jairo faltered in his only opportunity in a set-up role, but more than one opportunity should be given before it is determined that he is not worthy of that position. Marek or Asencio for the seventh seems very reasonable to me.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Apr 28, 2011 4:41 PM EDT reply actions

As I say this, Joe Mather is called up to replace Asencio.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Apr 28, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Do you suspect this will be his last chance with the organization, or does he still have a couple more opportunities to prove himself??

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Can we send him back down without having to clear waivers?

although if we sent him back down, it’d probably be because he played poorly enough that he’d clear waivers anway.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 28, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Nope...

Out of options. However, he passed through waivers last time, so I doubt he’ll get snagged next time…but maybe.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Apr 28, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s different at this point of the year than before. Right as the season starts is the easiest time to pass someone through with these bench players or relievers, since most teams want to give the people that made the team a shot to stay. I think he would not get picked up though.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Apr 28, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions