Braves Overmanaged To Death In 5-4 Loss To Marlins
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:13 PM EDT
in Braves Game Recaps
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PrintThe Braves' Jair Jurrjens was undone by one bad inning (the 4th), in which a 2-0 lead turned into a 4-2 deficit. In that inning, the rain was pouring down, the mound was deteriorating, and the home plate umpire was squeezing the strike zone (he was all over the place tonight). In that inning, 6 straight Marlins reached base with 1 out, highlighted by Wes Helms' 2-run triple. Jurrjens settled down and pitched great after that, but the damage was done. his final line was 7 IP, 6 H, 4 R, 2 BB (1 IBB), 6 K, and a -0.107 WPA.
Chris Volstad of the Marlins fared a bit better. He (and the Marlins' bullpen) were able to wriggle out of numerous jams. He gave up a solo homer to Eric Hinske and finished with a line of 6 IP, 5 H, 3 R, 1 HR, 3 BB, 3 K, and a 0.025 WPA.
In the battle of the bullpens, the Braves did get a run in the 8th to tie it at 4 when Melky Cabrera and Chipper Jones hit back-to-back doubles, but after that the Braves couldn't seem to get a run across no matter how many guys they got on. They hit into bases-loaded double plays in the 7th (Troy Glaus off of Clay Hensley) and 11th (Nate McLouth off of Jorge Sosa, of all people).
The Braves bullpen pitched amazingly until the 11th. Peter Moylan struck out the side in a scoreless 8th, Takashi Saito struck out 2 in a perfect 9th, and Jonny Venters got a double play to finish off a scoreless 10th. Unfortunately, Bobby Cox turned to Jesse Chavez for the 11th, and he blew it very quickly (though it should be noted that none of the balls hit off of him were hit hard; they just found holes). Two hits and an intentional walk brought up Helms again, with the bases loaded and no outs. Needing a miracle, Chavez didn't get it, as Helms grounded weakly, but through a drawn-in infield to secure the walkoff victory.
This was a tough series loss for us. Hopefully we can move on and beat up on Strasburg and the Nats starting Tuesday. Go Braves!
Okay. Now I have to rant a bit about some managerial moves. If you don't want to read it, that's fine. I've placed it after the jump, so you can just stop reading or skip to the comments if you don't like that sort of thing. But there are a few things that Bobby did in this game that I just have to complain about a bit.
In the clubhouse, Bobby Cox is a peerless manager. Nobody is better at managing players. Even during game situations, he's generally pretty good outside of a couple blind spots. But boy did he screw the pooch today.
I'm sure you could find a hundred things that went wrong with this game. You could blame the home plate ump, or the crappy field conditions, or the Braves' inability to hit with the bases loaded, or the presence of Nate McLouth on the roster. And I'm sure all of those things helped prevent us from winning. But I just want to focus on three moves Bobby made that made no sense at the time, and clearly interfered with our chances of winning the game:
- Pinch-running Nate McLouth for Eric Hinske in the 7th inning. Even if you assume that there is a big speed upgrade here (it seems pretty marginal to me), any slight benefit you gain is more than offset by the tremendous offensive downgrade. It's not like it was that late in the game; Hinske's spot in the order came up twice more before the game was over. McLouth grounded out weakly in the 9th and--crushingly--hit into a double play with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 11th. Raise your hand if you'd rather have had Hinske up in those spots (or Diaz, or really ANYONE else).
- Pinch-running Matt Diaz for Brian McCann in the 9th inning, and then telling him to steal. While there was clearly a speed upgrade here, this move required taking out one of our best hitters, ended up costing us an out when Diaz was easily thrown out, AND wasted Diaz in a game in which every position player got into the game. Having McCann anchored to first base there is infinitely preferable to having the inning over and both Diaz and McCann out of the game.
- Using Jesse Chavez out of the bullpen instead of Billy Wagner to start the 11th. Look, I know Wags has been in a tough stretch lately, and I know "the Book" says not to use your closer in tie games on the road, but come on. Who gives you a better chance to win in that spot? Isn't your closer for high-leverage situations, just like that? Even if you wanted to start the inning with Chavez, don't you have to bring in Wagner once Chavez loaded the bases? Why lose with your 12th-best pitcher when you have one of your best still available? I can see using Moylan, Saito, and Venters before Wagner, since they're all really good. But Chavez? This mistake always gets me, and it happens all the time.
Okay, now that I've gotten that off my chest, I would like to say that Bobby did make one good move. He pinch-hit with Chipper Jones at exactly the right time, leading to Chipper's game-tying double.
But oh man, sometimes I wish we could just keep managers away from "the Book" and all of its silly ideas of what works and what doesn't. It often does more harm than good.
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What a stupid game.
I really hate the Marlins and their pathetic ballpark, announcers and annoying 16 fans.
Get Nate McLouth off my team.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 25, 2010 5:17 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Rich Waltz
Reminds me of Baghdad Bob.
"FIP isn’t horseshit. It’s just horseshit for Hudson." - frozendesert
There is absolutely no American tanks within 100 miles of Bagdhad!
*BOOOM
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions
chavez to start the 11th, i can begrudgingly understand
but after hanley’s hit, and especially uggla’s hit, you have to bring in wagner there. this brings back memories to the dodgers game where they walked off off chavez. at least wagner had already been used that game.
i don’t think bobby was being stupid, so i have a couple theories why he didn’t bring wagner in:
1. it’s wagner’s birthday, and bobby never intended to use wagner today at all
2. it’s wagner’s birthday, and since a loss seemed inevitable, bobby just “gave up”
3. let chavez give up the walkoff, give more reason to getting him off the team
4. bobby pretty much didn’t care at that point, after all the huge chances wasted on offense, and decided a loss was better as an ass-kicking.
or some combination of the above. maybe bobby was getting light-headed from the heat. i don’t know. i do hope this game brings about some changes + lights a fire up the ass of those who aren’t contributing.
I really wonder
how many games managers will have to lose because they don’t use their closers in tie games on the road before they realize how dumb it is and change their strategy. We’ve already lost at least 2 games b/c of that this year, and won at least 2 as well.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a better one MCLOUTH SUCKS thats why we lost the game i dont understand why bobby is still playing him he needs to be gone plain and simple!!!! and now the phills are winning there fkn game!!!
Check the Minor League Recaps my friend.
He’s in AA.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 25, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Go back to Glaus' AB
He also grounded into a DP with the bases loaded also. It just wasn’t mean for us to win this game.
or even leaving in Venters
they never made it to the pitchers spot in the order due to our good luck charm, McClouth
I could be wrong, but I thought Moylan struck out 3 batters.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
Yeah you're right
I flipped him and Saito. I’ll go fix it now.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Not being nit picky, but just recall the 3 Aussie Ks. :-)
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
It's cool.
I like it when people fix my boo-boos. Just don’t argue with my opinions!
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
:-) I’m a lover not a fighter.
No arguments here.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
I don’t even try anymore.
Get Nate McLouth off my team.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 25, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO, with all the opportunities we wasted, nothing compared to the pathetic zone in the 4th inning for JJ.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
I was holding out hope...
For Nate! But Man is it hard! I just can’t see his usefulness… It’s got to be to the point where they say forget it. I would rather Blanco and the Melkman held down center!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 25, 2010 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
I think we all would rather Blanco/Melky than Nate at this point.
Which is kind of sad.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup sure is.
I wanted him to do well so bad but this is getting out of hand his speed isn’t even close to being worth it to me! And you damn sure better play defense for left, center and right if you are tring to make up for performing like he has at the plate.
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 25, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not even that fast any more.
And his defense is mediocre at best. He just doesn’t bring anything to the table this year. I wish I knew what happened to him.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Curse of Andruw Jones. how can we un-curse every CF that plays for Atlanta? Only Heyward knows…..
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jul 25, 2010 5:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Put
Heyward in Center for a game.
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 25, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
My thought is that he has lost all of his confidence; but I don’t see it coming back and I think there maybe something else to it! In any case, I would much rather have Blanco! I don’t care if we trade for anyone, the team did very well with him up! That doesn’t mean I would like to get another center fielder… but I’m not among the people ready to sell out the farm for one, either!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 25, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
His speed IS NO GOOD IF THE MAN CANT EVAN GET ON BASE GET RID OF HIM NOW!!!
by cali viking on Jul 25, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's time to expect some changes
Will McLouth even go to DC? Bobby was praising him for "hitting the ball hard " in the 11th inning DP. Chavez is good one day, bad the next. I will not be the least bit surprised if both are gone by tuesday night. Bring up Blanco and Marek or Proctor or Kimbrel, but it is time to protect our lead. The Phils are trying real hard to get back into this, wasting games with McLouth is not a good plan at this point.
Heyward is pretty good
Time for change
I agree wih you. Phils are trying their best to make up ground on the Braves and we cannot play into their hands with Nate. I am sure he is a great fellow and a wonderful person and at the next BBQ he will have the first seat at the table, but for now we need him to produce and he cannot do it. He has tried, give him a star on his forehead and send him on his way.
Phils are trying their best to make up ground on the Braves
They are sub .500 since the break. They just had an easy series against a fledgling Rockies team.
Braves will be just fine, but I do agree with everyone elses sentiment that McClouth sucks,
"I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault." ~ Jack Tatum
Apologies...they are just over .500
"I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault." ~ Jack Tatum
The worst managerial move was putting McLouth in the starting lineup.
Poets are like baseball pitchers. Both have their moments. The intervals are the tough things. ~Robert Frost
My bad. I’m so angry about him playing at all, I didn’t notice.
Poets are like baseball pitchers. Both have their moments. The intervals are the tough things. ~Robert Frost
Ah.
Well, that’s understandable.
I’m pissed about it too. As soon as he came in the game, I knew he’d do something to hurt our chances of winning. He can’t do anything right at the moment.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Really hope he fixes whatever his problem is right now, but it’s looking less and less likely that it’ll happen this season, or even at this level.
Didn’t have unreasonable expectations for him when the Braves made the trade, but this is just sad right now.
Morton hit Heyward with an offspeed pitch. Early indication is that the baseball survived the impact.
He wasn't.
Apparently you didn’t actually read the post. Or watch the game. Or look at a box score.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 25, 2010 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Jorges that used to play for the Braves...
What is Campillo up to these days? Last I heard he signed with the Royals…
Morton hit Heyward with an offspeed pitch. Early indication is that the baseball survived the impact.
I hate Insert Name Here Stadium. Nate McLouth stinks. Jesse Chavez stinks. Jason Heyward rules.
………
I also hate offdays. and that Nats guy we’re facing Tuesday.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jul 25, 2010 5:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
+1
I love that promo they keep showing on FoxSports for the game Tuesday, about the Braves hoping to beat up Strasberg again, and showing him walking off the field in the last game against us. Does anyone else think he looks like he’s about to cry in that shot?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
jesse chavez sucks!!!!
and even though wes helms suck too, he always hits against us….as long the mets and phills lose, tomorrow is another day…Go Bravos!!
He may suck but!
It shouldn’t have made it to him to begin with we should have scored some runs and then brought in Wags!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 25, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey guys...
We’re still 5 games ahead of the Phillies…maybe 6 if they blow it against Colorado.
Life is good.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
bright side! :)
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on Jul 25, 2010 5:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Phillies
I think we are all asking for a rude awakening if we think the Phillies don’t have us dead in their sights. Philadelphia has made two monumental late season runs recently. The NL East has been fortunate so far that their entire team slumped at the same time.
Five game leads can vanish very quickly. The Braves have already let three wins get away since the All Star break. Can’t keep doing that. One reason they were so successful the first half is by putting teams away late.
Totally AGREE
I’m an optimistic person and despite the occasional mistake or brain lapse, I love this team. However, I have a feeling deep down in my stomach that this scenario isn’t far off. Two kicks in the groin losses and the Phillies on a roll is just setting up for a nerve wracking next couple of weeks. I don’t like it at all. Better get our shit together.
What are you worried about?
The Phillies are not that good this season. They have weak starting pitching, their offense hasn’t been as good as years past, they’re older & they might trade Jayson Werth. You guys have a great team here, & I don’t think there’s a real reason to worry about the Phillies, Marlins, or Mets.
"I want to win now, not 3 years from now. That's my stance." - Kevin Burkhardt
So?
That’s what’s fun about baseball, and being in a divisional race. Every game is important. I would rather be fighting till the last week than go ahead by 10 or 15 and lose our edge. Bring it on, Little Phemale Ponys!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Happy Go Lucky!!! tee-hee!!
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
I see a troll under that bridge!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 25, 2010 6:05 PM EDT reply actions
the beach was nice today
thats about all the positive I can bring to this when I looked at my phone and saw McLouth in for Hinske I never looked back again.
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
Nate McLouth
I am not watching anymore Braves games until piece of garbage Nate McLouth is off this team.
by AnEternalEnigma on Jul 25, 2010 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
Blanco >>>>> McLouth
Kimbrell >>>>> Chavez
But, of course, going internal makes no sense………..wait……..
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
I see a troll under that bridge!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 25, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So long!
Don’t the the door hit ya….so forth, etc…..
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Only Bright Spots in this game is....
Heyward has a 9 game hitting streak (a 6 game multi-hit game) and Mac has a 4 game hitting streak.
by romone_braves91 on Jul 25, 2010 6:45 PM EDT reply actions
Plus...
we came from behind and tied it up late, and once again put ourselves in a position to win, even if we didn’t…. which is better than laying down.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
If anybody is hanging around in this thread....
Dan Haren was just giving away by the D’backs to the Angels for Joe Sanders and 3 C level prospects. Just amazing.
by romone_braves91 on Jul 25, 2010 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
Not really 3 C Level prospects
try a B, C, and PTBNL that is basically anyone except Trout. It could work out for the DBacks.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 25, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It seems like the Angels did very well.
Especially since Trout isn’t the PTBNL. I salute them for making the bold move. Now all they need to do is get rid of Kazmir.
by soup du jour on Jul 25, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
They look like
The Lollipop Guild trying to act like the Road Warriors.
"FIP isn’t horseshit. It’s just horseshit for Hudson." - frozendesert
Yeah..
what was up with that? I wanted Joe Simpson to comment on it so badly — he probably wanted to but controlled himself.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
….If anything else, the only thing that can fuck the Braves, are the Braves. Hopefully, this won’t be the case. But I thought Frank Wren was smarter than this. The former Pirates haven’t impressed, to say the very most.
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
I see a troll under that bridge!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jul 25, 2010 7:25 PM EDT reply actions
Oh Bobby!
Bobby Cox is one of the best managers of all time but man, sometimes I wonder. I am sitting at home and I was able to predict everything that happened today.
1) Why take out a red hot Heinske and put Mc-Out in there? I understand we are “still evaulating” to see if we need to make a trade but f-that. We are losing games and phillies is winning! Mc-out needs to go, NOW!
2) Jesse Chavez??????? are you kidding me? Where’s KK? JC is the worst reliever on the team and shouldnt be used in any sort of situations. He can;t hold a 10 run lead, a 1 run lead or keep the game tied. Needs to sent to the minors or released. I CANT TAKE IT!
I was glad to see your rant, because it makes me feel better about my feelings toward Bobby recently. He’s absolutely driving me crazy with these late, sometimes not-so-late inning “defensive” substitutions. Taking Chipper, Hinske, and McCann out early is not very wise. Not just talking about today, but its a blatant example. Taking out your big bats early can really screw you if the other team comes back, not only from a run scoring aspect, but it can also handcuff you in terms of when it actually makes sense to make a move.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chavez for Kimbrel
Mc-out for pillow cases and Blanco.
The Braves dont need to make a trade!!!! Just make these moves, We were winning with these guys on the roster!
Come on Frank, get rid of Nate
on the bright side
the worse nate does the sooner we’ll have a new CF
by Logan Allred on Jul 25, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You cant win when you have this at the same time
McLout in the line up
Chavez pitching
A really bad UMP
I know people around here don't like it as much as I do
But I think Cody Ross would fit well on this team ONLY if we don’t give up much to get him. I am not expecting him to be a world beater or difference maker, but this team is at the point where just a little complementary piece can make a big difference. Just a solid player with Melky in center can fill the only real hole this team has IMO
Ross is not that much better than Melky, if at all, and I really don’t want the Braves to help rebuild their pitching staff.
Heyward is pretty good
But he is better than Nate, and if we could let him go...
or find a fool to take his contract in August, it’d be great. Maybe DL him due to “complications” from the concussion. I also wouldn’t mind Glaus getting a two week break and letting Hinske take 1B for a few weeks (or Infante at 2nd with Prado at 1st a few games). We wouldn’t lose much ground in 2 weeks time (if any), and if it got his foot 100% to return to May (like Heyward seems to have been), it’d be worth it in the long run..
The only way Nate gets traded is if the Braves pay a big part of his contract, or if Wren includes him in a deal with a really good pitcher(that’s what teams want right now). Honestly, I would be tempted to just DFA him and bring up Blanco. We wind up paying the same amount if another team picks up Nate, they pay $400,000 pro-rated, Braves pay the rest, plus $400,000 for Blanco. It’s shitty, but so is Nate’s game right now. Best case scenario, getting rid of Nate costs us cash, Jurrjens, Minor or Medlen and we get somebody decent in return. I’d just as soon keep the pitchers and DFA Nate.
Heyward is pretty good
Bobby messes up
and the iffense chokes? Not good! Well, let’s go get the Nats (and a new CF).
Atlanta Hawks=the team that drafted big $$$$$$$$$ instead of big men.
Thoughts
After watching this series:
1) Realized the Braves lost a series for the first time in 2 1/2 months, yep 78 days.
2) Cody Ross is no better fit to help the Braves than a combo of Blanco and Cabrera. GTF rid of McLouth and go with what got the Braves this far.
3) Whatever the FO is doing as far a deadline deals, I think it has to involve KK. I don’t understand why he hasn’t pitched unless they are trying to protect themselves from him getting hurt until they can deal him.
4) Braves are five games up and August brings about 20 home games.
We’re still in good shape guys and girls! Go Braves.
1) close, we lost the whitesox series, but you can say we haven’t lost a series against an NL team in that time period
2) this might be accurate, but how to get rid of mclouth is the tricky part
3) not sure anyone will want a pitcher with that contract and unwinability (that’s right, i just made that word up)
4) yes, the sky is not falling
I left out “against an NL team” on accident. Damn that makes me look dumb.
Why else wouldn’t KK at least get a chance to make an impression out of the pen? I’m confused I guess.
by CharlotteChop on Jul 25, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Super
I love letting Philly back in the race.
I fed a fish to a pelican and Frisco bay and he tried to eat my cell phone he ran away
You do realize we have the largest division lead in the NL, right?
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 25, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
PANIC!!!
The Phillies are back in the race!!!
Last 10 Games: Braves 5-5, Phillies 5-5.
Braves are in the exact same place as 10 games ago. Its the first series loss in a month. The sky is not falling.
Honestly
All in all, I wouldn’t be as angry if that loss to San Diego and these two losses to Florida were by three or four runs. But getting that close in these games to winning, leading the game until the bottom of the ninth inning- those kind of things really hurt as a fan, and even more as a player on the team (note to those who inevitably point out that I don’t know how an actual Braves player feels, because I am not one: play a team sport for once in your life in an actual competitive setting and tell me how it feels after gut-wrenching losses such as these).
We should easily have been 6-0 on two series where we went 3-3.
If we win against Strasburg on Tuesday, I will be extremely impressed and proud of this team.
I hate the Phillies so much...
I don't care about Strasburg on Tuesday
as long as we do what we should on Wednesday and Thursday: Kill the Nats.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 25, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Series
win would be awesome. Coming back, against THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL (hat tip: ESPN) after two disappointing series would be even awesomer.
I hate the Phillies so much...
by frozendesert on Jul 26, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing is...
I think what makes this team special (like a lot of the Braves teams of the ‘90s), is that they are very good at not letting those type of losses drag them down. I think this is perhaps one of Bobby’s greatest abilities as a manager — understanding the cycles of a season and how to navigate through the ups and downs. You’ve heard several players say it — “you don’t get too high and you don’t get too low”. That doesn’t mean you don’t play with emotion, it just means you don’t let yourself get either overconfident (and let up) or under confident (and lose your nerve). And they’re not just saying it, Bobby gets them to really believe it. This is essential in a season of 162+ games.
On the negative side, some would say this mentality doesn’t work in the playoffs, and that explains Bobby’s lack of WS championships. But I think I’ll worry about that later!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Just watched the game on MLB.tv now
The condensed game feature is heaven, by the way.
Conrad’s called strike three in the first was ridiculous. Could have easily changed the outlook of the game.
On to your thoughts on Bobby’s managerial decisions, you’re absolutely correct. All three were terrible, and I was even more upset to see Matt Diaz steal than simply see him pinch-run. McCann has been our best offensive player for weeks and it was just an awful idea.
The Chavez thing I’ve beaten to death and it was honestly the same exact situation which caused me to write that article a few weeks ago. It’s just such a silly rule that baseball managers live by and some were upset that I chose a winning game to complain about the usage, but obviously you can tell that not using your closer can seriously hurt you there.
Awful managerial decisions, Bobby should hang this one on himself and rethink some moves if he wants the Braves to go deep into the playoffs. This series was all close games and I didn’t like many of Bobby’s decisions, to be honest.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
So true about Conrad
A joke compounded by Cedarstrom’s mobile riddle of a strike zone the rest of the day.
"FIP isn’t horseshit. It’s just horseshit for Hudson." - frozendesert
On the Diaz thing, didn’t they say his hand was hurt a bit from that HBP last night- PR may have been all he could do.
They should have brought in Hudson to PH for McLouth.
I think that was a consideration.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I have completely given up on Nate. Melky needs to be the sole starter in CF now.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:08 AM EDT reply actions
Don’t stress folks we r still doin great jus gotta
win these close games..truth b told we need a legit 6 hitter who can drive in runs..I like willingham
Bradley Wade Hinton
by heyward4prez on Jul 26, 2010 1:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
We once had this guy who thrived in the 6 hole…he was some sort of slick-fielding shortstop…what was his name again?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I forget
But our current shortstop is one extra base hit away from having half as many as that guy did in the entire first half.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
He is. He is also a lot closer to retirement and has a long history of sucking at the plate.
I’m not trying to re-hash this whole argument again, but Yunel was a guy who we could stick in the 5/6 hole and he thrived. Alex? Yeah….
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
but Yunel was a guy who we could stick in the 5/6 hole and he thrived.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 26, 2010 4:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty sure that he was one of the league leaders 2 years in a row in 2-out RBI situations. But yeah, you are right. He had a horrible 300 PAs, so let’s dump his ass!
Oh, btw, in case you are wondering, here are his career splits in the 5/6 hole:
Batting 5th: .288 .368 .444 .812
Batting 6th: .315 .397 .404 .800
Alex Gonzalez
Batting 5th: 245 .304 .396 .701
Batting 6th: .240 .280 .448 .728
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
No, it isn’t. But Yunel has a better career slash line in the 5/6 slot – by a large margine.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
But not this year…
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You sure about that?
Yunel 2010:
5th: .262 .326 .310 .636
6th: .294 .360 .338 .698
Gonzalez 2010:
5th: .270 .325 .324 .649
6th: .268 .307 .476 .783
And this is a down year for Yunel and a career year for Gonzalez, who btw, costs $2M more than Escobar.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
last year...
Win now, baby!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Something else to think about
Since we got all this new and improved chemistry, we are 5-5.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
obvious correlation
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 26, 2010 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Aren’t you the guy who hated Yunel anyway?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn't this the place you'd point out the SSS?
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Yes
I still don’t see how that makes it Gonzo’s fault that we can’t hit with the bases loaded and lost a few games in a row late.
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 26, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's the reason!
We got rid of our guy hitting .238/.334/.284 with 0HRs and 19RBI and we fall apart. No wonder we’ve lost a few close games lately. How could ANY team recover from that loss in the lineup?
Let’s just completely ignore the fact we played the NL’s best offensive team in Milwaukee, the NL’s current leader in San Diego and a red-hot Marlins team that we could’ve easily swept, if not won the series.
I know it’s a small sample size and all, but 361/.425/.528 is trash. And as Ben said, Gonzalez is one XBH away from tying Esco’s total in the 1st half.
It’s Gonzo’s fault! Wren sucks! How dare he make a win-now move!
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 26, 2010 5:06 AM EDT up reply actions
But Chemistry = WINZ, right?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Nobody said chemistry had anything to do with it. Getting a shortstop who’s lackadaisical play raised others injury risk and cost us runs offensively and defensively was the reason.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
I’m pretty sure that it was a club-house issue – at least, according to all of the reports out there.
If this was NOT a clubhouse move, this was a very very very stupid trade. The clubhouse factor is the ONLY reason this trade makes sense, and is the only reason that I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt here.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I know you are often misconstrued...
but you certainly don’t seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt. You seem to be saying we should have kept Yunel, instead of trading him for a decent SS (whose value is mostly in his glove), plus a good looking SS prospect, and another for our deep stable of arms.
No matter what Gonzo does the rest of this season, this was a bad trade from a baseball sense.
From a personality/chemistry sense, I agree with the move (if things were indeed as bad as they seem to have been).
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I think they may have been afterthoughts that our scouts jumped on. Just my opinion on that one though – no evidence to back it up.
Basically, I am saying that I don’t believe this was a Javy Vazquez-like deal where Vizcaino is the real prize.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If and only if this was a personality move. Otherwise, it just doesn’t make baseball sense.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 27, 2010 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd disagree depending on Pastornicky...
if the scouts thought this kid could take over at SS after next year, and do the job well for the next decade, then it makes a lot more baseball sense.
Also, Yunel’s lackadaisical play actually SAVED more runs than any other SS in baseball.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You know, I have this theory that hating Yunel was bringing all the other players together … Now that he’s gone, who are they all going to hate?
Might as well hate Nate or KK – that is the popular thing to do now.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I thought that the way we bloggers felt was also the way the players felt. Silly me.
Let’s see….who could be the next clubhouse cancer? Maybe Melky with his fat face and lack of hustle? Nah, that is a TC thing again.
Dammit. Perhaps they will start hating on Brandon Hicks? He is a cocky fellow…
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Touche’
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, I hope Gonzo completely thrashes the opposition for the rest of this year. Hell, I hope he breaks Hank Aaron’s record this year for most career HRs!
But, the truth of the matter is we traded for a guy who is playing WAY above his head. If you think he is going to continue to hit 40 points above his career average (which, btw is TWELVE YEARS of data that supports my side of the argument) then you are crazy.
Do you think a 33 year old just finally figured out how to hit this year?
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortuneately, you are correct.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
For as objective as you try to be with all your susperstats, this is a lame observation. 2 blown saves from 7-3.
by CharlotteChop on Jul 26, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It was a tongue in cheek post.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh come on...
you’re better than that.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Again, tongue in cheek.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
okay..
read that after I commented…
thank goodness, because you really are better than that!
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I had you worried there for a sec, huh?
:)
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
we had a guy who did that last year
not this year though…
Headlining the Campaign for the return of Ryan Langerhans! MVP 2011!
by RichmondBraves on Jul 26, 2010 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Not for parts of this year, you mean.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Yunel has been trash since the first few weeks of the season. Like 1/8th of his RBIs came on Opening Day for Christ’s sake.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 26, 2010 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow...1/8th?
I meant 1/4th lol. My bad. I’m no Jacob with the stats.
Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.
by Scott Coleman on Jul 26, 2010 5:09 AM EDT up reply actions
So, like I said, parts of this year.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions
One thing is for sure
You are by far the most loyal Braves fan to the “home grown team members” of the Braves that I have ever seen. That I do respect.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Gracias. It isn’t even a loyalty thing though – it is a “open your damn eyes” type thing. Some people are just ridiculous with the amount of frustration and, for lack of a better word, hate that they show towards certain players, whether they are home grown or not. It isn’t a home-grown thing for me, as my support of KK and Melky should show.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
True
But maybe a better word than homegrown would be well…im not sure. I just meant that it appears that your most loyal backing is homegrown prospects and KK (only played for the Braves in MLB), KJ and Esco. Either way, you continue to support players long after many go quiet and/or get dumped by the franchise.
It’s amazing to read and at times frustrating lol. But I applaud you and everyone else that sticks to their guns, even if I don’t agree with you.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Why JC?
Wouldn’t Kawakami be a better bet for a game that might well go several more innings?
I say him!
He looked like he was having a great time down there with Saito and Wags.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
SAW, not say....
I fail.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
The Japanese do respect the elderly.
:)
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
we could be
or should be undefeated since the break, we shouldn’t panic, did anyone think we were gonna just run away with the east? we’ll be ok. I say send rossy next time though, no matter who is on deck. make them make a play.
For u ppl who liked esco….your crazy he was 27 he had his his prime and wasn’t lookin to good..he was a nusance to everyone on or around the braves..I wouldn’t have cared to trade him for Craig counsell that’s how bad he was for this team..I would rather have a player who is goin to play 100% all the time and hit .250 with 5 hrs with avg d than esco who was lazy and was always complaining but instead we got a b+ defender a guy who can hit 10-15 hrs and is a decent #7 hitter..no more cancer!!!!!
Bradley Wade Hinton
by heyward4prez on Jul 26, 2010 7:06 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You have low standards for your #7 hitter.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I just want to point out...
that a lot of us on here have been saying ALL YEAR how terrible McLouth has looked…
but we were raked over the coals and our loyalty was questioned.
The fact is, we have watched enough baseball over the past 50 years to recognize talent and Nate does NOT have it any longer.
I don’t remember anyone’s ass getting chapped over their lack of patience with Nate.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
NATE McCLOUTH
LICKS HAIRY BALL SACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fking trade him already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....Land of the free, and home of the, Atlanta Braves!!!
I think you are disgusting.
Please go away.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
+1
I don’t need disgusting visuals to go along with having to be at work.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
agree with gondee
Bad managed game again, Marlins are the Braves kryptonite
give Glaus a day off he can barely run,
McLouth is done, is it all about the money?
Chavez is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over again and expecting different results “Albert Einstein”
Diaz trying to steal, really?
We cannot afford these bad loses with the Phillies making a move, Bobby.
by Fortune favors the brave(s) on Jul 26, 2010 11:02 AM EDT reply actions
The light of a new day and reflection of this loss....
…I still feel that if the ump hadn’t royally screwed JJ in that 4th inning – we would be celebrating a Series WIN today.
Poor guy had 2 batters struck out, but the ump refused to call it. I’ve hardly ever seen JJ so pissed on the mound.
I’m still dumbfounded by the removal of Hinske who was 3 for 3 on the day for you know who.
I’d love nothing more than to cleanse the the taste of this nasty loss by beating the coronated one to shock and dismay the pundits on Tuesday. I’m praying the real Hanson takes the mound for us.
And, the Phils are 1 game away from winning 5 in a row and sweeping the Rockies 4 straight today.
We need to stay focused and win these games we’re letting slip through our hands.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
The picture of Heyward is instructive.
Jason Heyward so frustrated that he’s throwing the bat away like Milton Bradley or something. Jason Heyward, for Heyward’s sake. When he’s that steamed, you’re doing something wrong.
"FIP isn’t horseshit. It’s just horseshit for Hudson." - frozendesert
RAWR!
is about the only thing I can say about this particular game. Frustrating to let those ones get away. This was a sweepable series.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
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