Gonzalez-Escobar Trade A Win For The Braves
by gondeee on Jul 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT
in Braves Trade News
Email
PrintIt was about a week ago when a routine grounder to shortstop turned into a lazy throw to first base that could have seriously injured Troy Glaus. Luckily Troy was okay, but that may have been the last Yunel Escobar incident that the Braves wanted to deal with.
For weeks they had insisted they had no intention of trading Escobar, but as soon as MLB allows teams to announce moves after the All-Star game, the Braves made the move to rid themselves of their enigmatic shortstop. In return they get a proven veteran shortstop in Alex Gonzalez, who is signed through next season and has playoff and World Series experience.
Gonzalez may not be the flashiest name on the shortstop market, and he is six years older than Escobar, but the trade gives the Braves an upgrade at short and an upgrade in the lineup. The argument about this trade for years to come will be one of potential versus proven results. Escobar has shown great potential in the Majors up until this year, but the Braves impatience with him leads to them selling low. Gonzalez has been a proven Major League shortstop for years, and he is currently enjoying what should be a career year, so the Braves are certainly buying while the price is high.
Despite those factors the Braves seem to have made out pretty well in this trade. In the near term they remove the team's biggest distraction who is also perhaps their biggest unknown from their everyday lineup. And for this year at least they get a hot-hitting shortstop. Gonzalez will replace Yunel in the seventh or eighth spot in the lineup, so adding that kind of free-swinging power to the lineup in a spot where the team was previously getting below replacement level production should be good for a few more runs a week. The free swinging ways of Gonzalez should not be an impediment that low in the order, as long as he continues to hit for good power.
There were other players in the trade too. Embattled left-handed starter/reliever Jo-Jo Reyes was also sent to Toronto, though how the Braves convinced the Blue Jays there was any value in him I'll never know. Perhaps there's an open rotation spot in Las Vegas the Jays needed to fill. Getting rid of Jo-Jo is more like addition by subtraction for Atlanta. He is another player the Braves had tired of.
The Braves got two prospects who they will assign to double-A Mississippi. Tyler Pastornicky is a light-hitting speedy shortstop in the Adam Everett mold. He's nothing too special, but could become a ready replacement for A-Gonz in a couple of years until the more talented shortstops below him are ready. I am a little concerned that his acquisition could block Mycal Jones from any sort of rapid advancement.
Tim Collins is the last player in the deal, a left-handed pitcher who likes to post K-rates in the double digits. This year he's striking out 15.3 guys per nine innings at double-A. He throws a fastball 92 to 94 mph and mixes in a great curveball and change-up combo. I'll say this for Frank Wren, he likes to have other clubs throw in hard-throwing lefties in these trades (Mike Dunn anyone).
The Braves made themselves a really good trade. They got rid of two players they didn't seem to want anymore and acquired a veteran shortstop with post-season experience for their pennant run, as well as two potentially useful minor leaguers. This was a win-now trade, and a preemptive strike on the rest of the National League East. The Braves can now boast to the Phillies and the Mets that they will open the second half of the season with three players that haven't been in their starting lineup for weeks -- Gonzalez, Jason Heyward, and Nate McLouth.
This is a move the Braves have to make if they're given the opportunity. They upgrade the weakest position in their lineup, and they didn't even give up any prospects... just the opposite, they added prospects. Even if Yunel goes on to success in Toronto (and I hope he does), this trade should not be viewed poorly, because much like Jeff Francoeur, it didn't seem like Escobar would succeed in Atlanta.
403 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
The final point is my main point
When Yunel gets it all together in Toronto and succeeds, it should not reflect poorly on this trade. Maybe it could have happened in Atlanta, but it surely did not seem like it.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
I think this will be quite a wakeup call for Yunel, and fully expect him to improve. Its just a shame that trading him will likely be what it takes for him to get there.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
Only thing is I’m not for sure he really cares!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Its About time.............
I’ve been waiting for this day for a very long time. We finally got rid of the braves top two underachieving knuckleheads. Bye Bye Reyes, and Yunel “dont feel like hustling today”Escobar.
Will we look back and say, “why we made this trade”? Maybe, but this is a short-term deal. If the Braves go out and win the World Series this season who cares if Esco makes the All Star team in the next few years? Who cares if Jo Jo starts the All Star game. This is the best team we had in a very long time. We need to WIN now. The best part of this trade is we didnt give up any of our own guys! In fact, we got prospects in return!! I was reading the Blue Jays blog and some of those guys are upset bc they gave up on one of there “promising” prospects, (cant think of the first name) Collins, who could become a set up/closer in the near future.
AG is having a great season so far and I just hope he can continue this streak that he is on. The part that I like the most about this trade is Alex as playoff experience. The guy is a proven winner. Who would you rather have in a Game 7, less then 1 out, tie game, AG or Esco at 3rd base representing the winning run?? Did you forget the game when Esco thought there was 2 outs and failed to tag up? We lost that game and one thing is for sure, we dont have to worry about any more blunders around here, at least for the short-term. Don’t underestimate Frank Wren.
by AlRoBraves95 on Jul 14, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Well. fucking. said.
HUMAN TEAMMATE HEYWARD JASON FOR FRANCHISE MVP AFTER TAKING MATTERS INTO OWN HANDS AND REMOVING MCLOUTH NATE FROM LINEUP
+1
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jul 14, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO, this is a copout that people will turn to when Yunel hits 330 in the 2nd half with an OPS north of 800:
“But but but…he just needed a change of scenery…”
No, the Braves just needed to wait for the regression. Selling low and buying high are never good ideas, and in tandem they can be deadly.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
How long did we wait for Francoeur's regression?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is a comment taken from Fangraphs
It echoes my sentiments perfectly:
“I have a feeling if Ed Wade or Omar Minaya had made this trade, hardly anybody would have ANYTHING good to say about it.
It’s just the fact that Frank Wren is not perceived as a total moron that people are almost searching for reasons to justify the trade.
Sometimes reasonably smart people make dumb moves."
My opinion, apologies for the shit-show on the other thread.
no worries, you are entitled to your own opinions
i love the trade, bu ti think its mainly cause i hated escobar
literal LOL
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Well said.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We're in position to win right now
so you make moves to win right now. I hope Escobar does well in Toronto, but I think we’d have been fools to pass this up.
by Will Shelton on Jul 14, 2010 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
We added a guy with a career OBP below .300, this is not a move to help a team win now.
The only piece in this trade that is likely to have any value is a LOOGY that is still in AA.
OBP doesn't take certain things into account.
Like the fact that most of the time Escobar got on base, it was at first and first only. He wasn’t hitting for power, and he wasn’t hitting for average. His walk rate was up this season, so he got to first more often. I’d rather have someone show some pop and swing for the fences (and succeed).
tc turning into propoganda for braves
by fizzbot on Jul 14, 2010 3:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Oh brother
"It wasn’t that it was slippery or anything like that. It was just, dadgum, my hands and the balls were so wet..." - Tim Hudson
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Jul 14, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Or, it could be a guy expressing his opinion and using facts to back it up. I thought that’s what we were supposed to do here?
"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson
by sleezer1788 on Jul 14, 2010 3:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Come off of it bro
HUMAN TEAMMATE HEYWARD JASON FOR FRANCHISE MVP AFTER TAKING MATTERS INTO OWN HANDS AND REMOVING MCLOUTH NATE FROM LINEUP
We have always been at war with Metsasia
by skymuse on Jul 14, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here's Gondeee....
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
+1
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Propaganda? Your spelling was different so I'm not sure, but if indeed this is the word
is a form of communication that is aimed at influencing the attitude of a community toward some cause or position.
As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis.
At times, I would agree.
Washington Tribune, June 29 2010 – "The stonecutters carving Stephen Strasburg’s name onto the Washington Monument have been directed to await further instructions."
FW on Chuck and Chernoff
"It wasn’t that it was slippery or anything like that. It was just, dadgum, my hands and the balls were so wet..." - Tim Hudson
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Jul 14, 2010 3:15 PM EDT reply actions
key comments:
- Gonzalez will add to our great clubhouse mix
- he’s a very good defensive SS – not much difference between him and Yunel – and a dangerous hitter
- Question: what’s next. Answer: will be patient and see what, if anything, else needs to be done. Mentions JJ and MattD and Heyward and a couple of other guys who still have’nt really gotten it going yet Also that more players become available closer to post-season roster deadline, 8/31, as other teams drop out of contention
- is bullish on the team – have under-performed, if anything, and expects them to have a great 2d half
I think its great that we finally have a SS
who has a neck. Seriously, Yunel looks really weird in that pic. I cant really tell where his head begins and torso ends.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 14, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
He looks a little bit like Grimace from the McDonald’s commercials except he’s not purple.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 14, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I will miss his frosted tips and drawing $ in the dirt before his at-bats.
"It wasn’t that it was slippery or anything like that. It was just, dadgum, my hands and the balls were so wet..." - Tim Hudson
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Jul 14, 2010 3:19 PM EDT reply actions
Does he really draw a $ sign in the dirt? I’ve always wondered….
"Look out Atlanta. Jason Heyward is going to wow you."
-Chipper
No.
He says he drew a random shape or symbol. If he got a hit, he’d draw the same one again next time. If he didn’t, he’d draw something else. I think it’s actually sorta cool, however ineffective it must have been this season.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
by FineHamAbounds on Jul 15, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
This is still a terrible trade, imo.
We traded a potential All-Star shortstop for… Alex Gonzalez, who is having a career year and is likely to come back to earth at any moment. And the prospects we got are nothing special, either.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
He wasn’t going to be an All-Star shortstop with the Braves, the effort just wasn’t there anymore. Could he make the All-Star game for another team? Sure, but not here.
by McLouth Maniac on Jul 14, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
how was his effort not there?
as of right now, he’s the best defensive ss in the majors. his offense has tanked but his defense has soared, and unless my eyes deceive me, defense at ss takes much more effort than batting.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
"Best defensive ss in the majors?"
According to what, exactly?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
He certainly showed it last year, and I think 2010 is just a bump in the road for him. And if Wren was planning on trading him at all, why didn’t he just wait until he started producing again?
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
The time is now
Trading deadline is later this month, and if this is our best possible trade for Yunel right now, we make it in case Gonzalez is snapped up by someone else.
Try to view this as a wash with some upgrade in batting. It’s rent-a-player for this year with the option to dump him next year if it doesn’t pan out; meantime we’re losing a hole at the 8-spot.
would it be that big of a shame if someone else got gonzalez first? he’s not exactly destroyed pitching in his career…in fact his career numbers put him as a solid backup infielder…or someone who would somehow succeed on the padres…
by forgotten_glory on Jul 14, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Dunno - I'm not a GM who's up on all the shortstops available for trade
Since this happened so fast and so far in advance of the deadline, I have to think that the Braves were 100% committed to getting what they could for Exco. We weren’t going to get A-Rod for him, so expectations have to be lowered as a consequence.
FW obviously thinks this is the best possible deal right now. Are we technically on the short end of it? Long-term probably, but in the short term we’ve added a bat, dumped a headcase, and sacrificed very little defensively.
Better to take a deal Now that’s not the greatest instead of a deal Later that’s really bad.
Plus
We are a contending team this year. So we need production now not 2 years down the road.
I like this trade a lot.
by dragonhawk26 on Jul 14, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes a "special prospect" to you?
These were top-20 guys in the Toronto system who won’t fall much farther than the top-30 in ours. Both have ML upside.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
well written...
but i completely disagree with you on this trade. i loathe escobar and his actions as much as the other guy, but this is a classic sell low/buy high and, by season’s end, we’ll see our mistake.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
So your argument is that we should keep a pariah in the clubhouse just for trade value? You do realize there are other considerations here right? I’d rather our first baseman survive the season and not have to worry about bad throws.
no....this is my argument...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gonzaal02.shtml
a SS with a career .696 ops with worse defense is what we acquired. i’m not against trading yunel, but i’m against acquiring a francoeurian SS.
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
Gonzalez is pretty good defensively...
…and Escobar is as well. Escobar’s numbers are better but he has less of a track record, so the numbers are not as reliable. That said, Escobar is clearly the better hitter, but also the bigger headcase.
If by worse defense you mean
equal or better, than yes, he provides worse defense.
by jtw126 on Jul 14, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
He may be Great...
But he doesn’t care to play anymore for the Braves! Every year there it is a fight to have him go out and play like he could! I think that everyone in here knows the kid is good and could be great. but none of that matters if he doesn’t go out and play up to that ablity.
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Him and Brayan Pena only grew up together swapping Smoltz and Glavine jerseys promising to each other that they’d someday be Braves. Crimony, how they must’ve grown to hate them.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1130711/index.htm
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Ah...
so they have cars from the 40s and 50s, but can smuggle in modern athletic jerseys? Nice Cuba. Love it.
And no mention of Yasser Gomez? Since he’s disappeared after signing, let’s send Yunel’s “other best friend” to the Blue Jays too.
Not sure if you were aware, but baseball is pretty big in Cuba. It’s like the NFL for us.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
the point is more that than can get new american basbeall jerseys, but cant get new american cars…
I’m sure he realizes Cuba loves baseball, he isnt an idiot…but it is interesting that Cuba has markets for certain things that are new and other things, not so much
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
well played
I hear they have microwaves now. seriously.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see how this story would forever hold true. Sometimes you get mad and things are not what you thought they were!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes things change
As a kid, I thought about how great it would be to work for Nintendo, but when I went to go visit a friend who worked in Redmond Washington, at their US HQ, all I saw were a bunch of miserable corporate slaves who hated their jobs too.
Not saying that’s precisely what happened to Esco, but when the job is essentially playing a kid’s game, I’d hope he would need to get so jaded, so quickly.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I totally agree! Like I was saying maybe that trade talk just really changed his intrest for the team… One day we may find out but we may never know what has gone on in his head.
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Just the way the guy acts! I don’t know if it stems from the trade talks afew years ago for Jake or if he just has a really big head… He just seems to not care!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No, no, I see the attitude “problem.” But why do you think it’s a personal attack on being in Atlanta and playing for the Braves? What makes you think he is directing that at the organization and is something that won’t continue no matter who he plays for?
Oh no man… I don’t think this is something directed at just the Braves. He may just have a head problem, by thinking he is great already. But it seems that after the trade talks he has been more of a pain in the a*s for the whole team!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I know you all don't care, but here's my take on the trade:
I like it…i think.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
i think i like it too...
But whether people like it or not, all we can do now is root for Gonzalez and hope for the best.
Jason Heyward is so good, he makes David Wright piss in Ryan Howard’s pants
by heap16 on Jul 14, 2010 3:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this
and I don’t like the trade.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
But even if Alex slows, he will give us more than what Esco has given us to this point.
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
which is not relevant
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
its relevant… it tells us if Gonzalez does better than Esco int he first half and all things remain the same…we will be a better team in teh second half (now theoretically, we could have kept Esco and he could have outpaced his first half and Gonzo’s second half and then we would be even better, but thats hardly the poitn)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
My thoughts exactly.
Actually, when someone asked me if I liked the trade, I believe my answer was “Yes. … Ish.”
I was somewhere in the neighbor hood of...
“Hmm…ok.”
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, here's how I feel about it:
I’m not sure.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
I'm loving this trade
Sure, Gonzalez will more than likely have a dropoff at some point this season. But we won’t have to worry about the mental lapses and lack of production Yunel has been giving us this season (no homers and 19 rbi’s speaks for itself). This is a safe trade- we know what we’re getting
And we get Heyward back from injury
"That's my teammate, man... That's my quarterback"
by TurnerTheBurner on Jul 14, 2010 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
We
needed to move on from Yunel bottom line. I was hoping we could swing more than Gonzalex out of trading him (and maybe we did, Im intrigued by Tiny Tim) but he had to go. We are in the middle of trying to take Bobby to the promised land one last time, the last thing we need is our SS acting like a douche on a daily basis. What do you have to be pissed about when you’re 4 games up in the NL’s most balanced division? I thought for years Yunel was our answer at short, but there comes a time when you’ve got to cut a man loose.
I will now recognize that kbertling has been correct about Gonzalex, he isn’t that tight. I’m just hoping being thrown into contention keeps him motivated.
"In basketball -- as in life -- true joy comes from being fully present in each and every moment, not just when things are going your way." -Phil Jackson
by milldoo on Jul 14, 2010 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I disagree
and would be happy to be proven wrong.
By the way, the playof and WS argument doesn’t mean anything to me. Melky has the same experience, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is a 4th OFer.
I have always defended Frank Wren, even when others disagreed (signing Wagner, the Vazquez trade, letting Smoltz go). But this one makes no sense to me at all. The Braves just got older, and no significant increase in production on any level, and in fact likely decreases in production on several levels. I really do hope that Frank Wren proves me wrong.
I’ll reserve the rest of my judgement for Keith Law’s take. His opinion might sway me.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
Keith Law on Twitter...
“I like Collins, very solid middle guy, ready now or very soon. Surprised Jays gave him up.”
I'd also disagree with the take on Pastronicky/Myke Jones...
considering Jones is older, I’d assume if one of the two was heading to AA from A+, it’d be Jones. I think he’s 3 or 4 years older, although seemingly more raw and tools with Pastro more polished and fundamentally sound.
I think that's the first positive mention
I’ve seen of Collins in any of these threads.
Keith’s always about 11 steps farther down the path. I remember him telling people to quit thinking about anything other than Vizcaino when the Vasquez trade was made.
"Desperation is a stinky cologne. " - Captain Grady
by Sam Jethroe on Jul 15, 2010 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I was discouraged at first by comparing their stat lines, but 17 hrs to 0 hrs is encouraging. His OBP and K rate are miserable, but does his power make up for it?
No
is OBP for his career is like under .300. That makes him below replacement level as a hitter no matter his HR total. Think Mike Jacobs.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Only he plays plus defense at a premium position like SS, which is nothing like an average 1B like Mike Jacobs. Average defensive 1B grow on trees. Plus defensive SS with some pop do not.
by get swoll yunel on Jul 14, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair
but he isn’t Omar Vizquel on defense either. I made the comparison before, he is, at best, Pedro Feliz only at SS. Which isn’t a compliment.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
he is worht 1 WAR and thats basically what we are paying him for…he is creatin value for the team…its always good to have players with postiive value
I do realize its much more likely Escobar creates value seeing as his salary is 1/6th the amount.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
This is the point
Escobar has almost the same WAR over his career as Gonzo, and Escobar has played about 1/3 of the amount of time GOnzo has. This isn’t that Gonzo is the worst player ever, but that Escobar is and will be better.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 15, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
What either of them have done over the last three years...
will not win us any games in October.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Mike Jacobs
Was an utter stiff at first base. He’d have to win a couple of Gold Goves to get up to average. Not important or anything, just wanted to mention it.
I agree that Alex should never be mentioned with Jacobs, just because he can use that leather thing on his hand for something more than scratching his face.
"Desperation is a stinky cologne. " - Captain Grady
by Sam Jethroe on Jul 15, 2010 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's why I think Frank Wren made the move
Prado
Heyward
Chipper
Glaus
McCann
Gonzalez
Hinske/Diaz
McLouth
That’s a really, really good lineup.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
and if nate cant go
gregor is looking ready for the MLs full time in the 8 spot i think
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
Yep. I say we give McLouth about 3 weeks to see if he’s got it. If not, it’s Blanco’s and Melky’s job.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
wow
that’s comforting. 2 guys who can’t hit the ball out of the infield with authority…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Blanco has been great for us since coming up. What games have you been watching?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
no
I know he has, but that doesn’t mean I think he is anymore than another 4th OFer at best. And he has never really shown any power.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s here to get on base and doesn’t have to hit the ball with authority to do so. Have you not seen his multiple infield hits?
Jason Heyward is so good, he makes David Wright piss in Ryan Howard’s pants
by heap16 on Jul 14, 2010 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
seen
those can’t be counted on all the time, and those infield hits also turn into double plays from time to time. Again, it isn’t that I don’t like the guy, but I like him as a 4th OFer. Same with Melky. I don’t want either of the starting games with any regularity. But they are. And that is a problem. I would argue a much bigger problem than Yunel Escobar was.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i see your point..
But if Blanco keeps playing like he has been, then what would be the problem?
Jason Heyward is so good, he makes David Wright piss in Ryan Howard’s pants
by heap16 on Jul 14, 2010 4:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He already did this
for 1/2 season about 2 years ago. It’s like Willy Harris. He has random hot streaks, then disappears for a while. If somehow he keeps it up, sure, no problem. The likelyhood of that is below 5%, but sure.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Have you seen him choke up on his bat!?!? He’s not trying to hit for power. He knows his limitations.
by dunnytwogloves on Jul 14, 2010 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
yes
and your point? He knows his limitations. Great for him. He is still a 4th OFer. Braves already have a slew of those. I want a 2nd and 3rd OFer (Heyward being #1).
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I want a #1 OF, with Hewyard being #2……if we are wanting things we might not get…why not go big
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Sure
whatever, my point remains the same.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 15, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Cabrera has been more than adequate for a couple of months.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Darn right!
His 60 PAs have been AWESOME!
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
The only thing I am worried about is Gonzalez splits btw RHP and LHP. He hits RHP better than LHP. And as we know, we struggle against lefties. I like his power though over Escobar.
My 4 guys (Hudson, Hanson, Meds, JJ) can take on anybody's 4 guys (the MLB) and Victory will be ours!
by romone_braves91 on Jul 14, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
gonzalez is a very good fielder. his power his obviously an upgrade. yunel was sone with atlanta, and gonzalez is as good a fielder and a better hitter right now which is what we need. getting rid of JOJO and getting that lefty is a super plus on this deal. good job FW and yes yunel will be very good in the future, but we want a 2010 ws
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
I'm with you, here.
Can we stop making comparisons to Francoeur? I realize all the possible ways to make comparisons and the hopes of a city being on his shoulders, then being dashed by him corkscrewing into the dirt on every offspeed pitch, but jeeze. Let it go.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Francouer is a legitimate comparison...
…to Gonzalez’s bat. And perhaps Escobar’s head.
its not really comparable…Gonzalez has power (some at least) and he plays a premium position which makes his bat more valuable…Francouer’s production with a good defense at SS would be survivable
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I'd also like to say this:
For everyone in the threads saying “Gonzalez is going to come back down at any minute”, did you ever think that a guy might have finally figured it out offensively?
Also, his BABIP is .274, so he’s been pretty unlucky this season.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
career babip .295ish
so maybe he gets even better?
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
hopefully.
Look, I’m not in love with the trade, but it seems like you and I are one of the few who don’t hate it.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t hate it but I don’t like it either. I can see why this trade was made, but we could have done better
Based on what?
Again, no offers of any substance were ever discussed or published.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
yep i think you cant hate it
looking even at uzr/150 gonzalez is still a better than decent fielder, and power is what we need, and k’s are ok in thatt spot in the lineup as long as he keeps hitting doubles
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
I don't hate it
I don’t love it. Let’s just hope Gonzalez has a career year and not a career 1st half.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean, maybe
but how often do you see guys figuring it out in their 15th or so season at the age of 33? I mean, maybe, but you can’t possibly bet on those odds.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, and I’m just trying to think positively now.
I just pray that Esco doesn’t do well in Toronto, because that’s all we’ll hear about on TC for the next 3 years.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
this
I just pray that Esco doesn’t do well in Toronto, because that’s all we’ll hear about on TC for the next 3 years.
is very true. And that is the most likely scenario.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
its fine if he does
and we get to the ws
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
but if his production isn't better than Yunel's
or in fact worse, the argument would be made that we would have made it anyway?
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
there is still the argument that there is more to baseball than mere production (which is completley unprovable)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Yeah
I just don’t know. Even baseball people like Seth Everett don’t believe in that. I just figure, if “attitude” and such really effected a team’s stats, than it WOULD show up in the stats. The Braves are winning with him. And playing well in general. How bad could it have been?
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 15, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
HR's don't toward BABIP
ZIPS has him hitting .702 OPS the rest of the season
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
This
there’s more to luck than in play average
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
plus, we were looking at a sell low...
…or wait and sell lower situation becoming rapidly more comparable to a FYF situation, as I think someone mentioned in the first thread.
also Alex Gonzalez was infinitely better than Ryan Church and we even got “prospects”
That's assuming you can predict the future
There’s no way to know if Yunel’s value was going to get lower, and there’s no reason we should have been forced to sell either now or later.
yeah but is often seems the opposite is true
because if Yunel continued to decline offensively over any extended period of time it could’ve been imposible to get ANY value for him.
I’m confident that this combined with the fact that we have Salecedo and Mycal Jones plus this new SS prospect that we have plenty of “do-overs” in case we did make a mistake here.
I don’t see why they would need to with the option for next year.
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I.Trust.Wren.(and Bobby.)
He’s not going to get them all right, but I’ll take him over any other GM in the league. Ask me last week and I was against trading Yunel just because of his defense, but I’m not in the clubhouse. While I was against it, I’m not going to worry about a hitter with a .618 OPS. We’re adding OPS while the drop off in defense seems minimal.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
alex gonzalez gets out over 70% of the time...
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
I still don't know about this trade
I guess I would if I saw him play
...in dixie land i'll take my stand to root for Atlanta
And to those who say Gonzalez has power...
…In his 11 MLB seasons, only 5 of them produced double-digit homers. And his career SLG% is an unimpressive .402.
I still like Frank Wren, but this trade is a fail.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Perhaps we should wait until the games are played before we make judgements?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
But
Gonzo has played many many games. His production has been pretty established. This year screams fluke power.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he's trying to
bulid much more of a character based culture. Think of the nucleus: Heyward, Mac, Hanson, Prado.
It not just about stats.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
~Earl Wilson
Check that ISO:
It’s easily better than Escobar’s.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Another plus for Alex Gonzalez we may be overlooking:
his nickname is “Sea Bass”
"It wasn’t that it was slippery or anything like that. It was just, dadgum, my hands and the balls were so wet..." - Tim Hudson
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Jul 14, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions
Not another plus.
This is the real plus
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
~Earl Wilson
I never noticed his hat before.
eBay here I come!
Did the same a few years ago. Excellent.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I view this as a positive, not a negative:
“I am a little concerned that his acquisition could block Mycal Jones from any sort of rapid advancement.”
Competition is good. If Jones can’t beat out Pastornicky for a shot at the Show, then he doesn’t belong in the Show.
You know who i'm excited about:
Tim Collins.
Our bullpen is going to be so f’ing good the next few years…good lord.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
his curveball is ++
venters, him, eof, kimbrel
we need wags to stay and teach the lefties though
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
I wish we could have Wagner for next year, but the man needs to spend time with family. He really sounds like he’s ready to hang em up.
What I’m excited about: Wagner’s $7MM and Saito’s $5-6MM coming off the books in the offseason. If Freddie Freeman can play 1B, thus we don’t have to sign another 1B, Chipper retires and we get rid of either Lowe or KK, we have the money to sign Crawford or Werth, along with either trade or sign Chipper’s replacement.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
let's not blow it on a derek lowe type deal
by kbertling353 on Jul 14, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
On Crawford or Werth? They’re much better than Derek Lowe, and they’re not 37 either.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, id take crawford in a hearbeat
i was just saying don’t go sign someone stupid for a ton of money
by kbertling353 on Jul 14, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Werth is over 30 and any contract will be bound to involve his declien and could possibly include half the contract length in a declien phase…as much as I lover Jayson Werth (and I really love guys who OPS 900, steal bases, play great defense and have an awesome beard and great hair [ i actually value the beard and hair higher than any on field performacne]) i dont trust him on any deal longer than 4-5 years…and Crawford is gonna be more expensive than he is worth
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Werth will only get a 4 or 5-year deal
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 15, 2010 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
What about guys who sleep with their teammate's wife?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Dammit, I can't say it enough.
FW get me Carl Crawford.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
True.
Collins might be the only reason not to hate this trade, even though I still do.
His addition officially gives us a plethora of young lefty relievers.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Jefe: I have put many beautiful pinatas in the storeroom, each of them filled with little suprises.
El Guapo: Many pinatas?
Jefe: Oh yes, many!
El Guapo: Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
Jefe: A what?
El Guapo: A plethora.
Jefe: Oh yes, you have a plethora.
El Guapo: Jefe, what is a plethora?
Jefe: Why, El Guapo?
El Guapo: Well, you told me I have a plethora. And I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has no idea what it means to have a plethora.
Jefe: Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?
by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 14, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
+ many, many internet points
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
quality film
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish Yunel success (and maturity) in Toronto.
He has a magnificent arm, but I for one will be happy to see someone who hustles to the base (every time) and has a pretty good chance of connecting with the bat. Especially with our ability to get men on base this season.
Perhaps a change of venue will be just the thing he needs to become the baseball player he has the potential to be.
We however, have a pennant (and more) to win and this is Bobby’s last year.
I want Wren and the organization to do whatever is necessary to increase our chances to make that happen – this year.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
by NCChopper on Jul 14, 2010 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I absolutely love this trade!
Great write up Gondeee! I was gonna post on the other thread, but I was too busy throwing up reading all the cry-babying and belly-aching. I would not be surprised if Bobby Cox told Wren to move the lacksidasical shortstop. Escobar is the antithesis of a Bobby Cox player. I just don’t think he gets it. I would much rather have Gonzalez. I hope Escobar grows up in Canada (where his $$$‘s in the dirt won’t go nearly as far).
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 14, 2010 3:47 PM EDT reply actions
Question:
If the Braves win the World Series this year and Gonzalez contributes, will anyone care what Yunel Escobar is doing in Toronto?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
Does anybody ever care what anyone is doing Toronto?
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jul 14, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
*in Toronto
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jul 14, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on if you can see in those Hotel Room skyboxes.
by CharlotteChop on Jul 14, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Not since '92.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
he could hit 400-homers
and hit .350 the rest of his career and itll still have been the right move…to me (if we win)
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
if he plays to his potential
Toronto retains him at a cost controlled salary for years to come, there will be a bittersweet aftertaste, especially if the Braves end up with a revolving door of shortstops for years to come.
But not this year, IF the Braves win the series…
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
We shouldn't care regardless
Yunel Escobar wasn’t doing it here and nothing pointed to it in that direction. It’s the same thing with Francoeur. If he got it going this year and hit his potential it wouldn’t have reflected badly on our decision, he wasn’t going to do it here. The good part about this one is that Yunel probably will reach his potential but not in our division.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
Not the same
Escobar =/= Francouer. You have shown yourself to be smart and analytical, why are you blowing it on this terrible argument? First, Escobar has provided value defensively, where FYF was no longer doing so. Second, Esco showed in 2007-2009 that he is an above-average ML hitter. FYF was only above average in 2005 and 2007. Esco’s slump was half a season where he had more BB’s than K’s. FYF showed for 1.5 seasons that he has no upside as a hitter. They are not the same player, this is not the same situation. Certain people in the braves’ FO didn’t like Esco’s style of play, but there’s no real evidence that his actual play had a detrimental effect on their record. FYF was literally killing the team with his terrible play and acted like an enormous douche when the FO attempted to do something about it. Bottom line – FYF forced the FO’s hand; Esco didn’t.
Don't kiss an ass if it's in the process of shitting on you.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
Actually...
Bowman suggested on his blog that Escobar’s attitude and constant brain farts had done just what you suggested Francoeur did: forced them to ship him out of town.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yunel Escobar wasn’t doing it here and nothing pointed to it in that direction.
except, you know, regressing to career averages.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
you are assuming his career averages is his true talent level and that is misguided. We don’t know what his true talent level…a complete lack of power with no explanation is worrisome…
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
I assume his natural HR/FB is something greater than zero.
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 15, 2010 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
that i would have to agree with…but only bc i think even my HR/FB ratio is greater than zero…at some point i wold accidently get one out right? (probably not)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Daniel Haren’s power> flower power> Yunel’s power> Swo’s power> HR/FB of exactly zero
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 15, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I have very little feeling on this. In my opinion we lose very little this year on the trade even if A Gon regresses. Sure we lose 3 years of Yunel’s service time, but I have never thought his bat would develop farther than it already had. Maybe that is just me. Now He is in the toughest division in baseball and is looking to break out of a slump and we get a guy who is having a career year with solid defense to help our drive to the playoffs.
Also I don’t think we are done yet.
i think we might be done
getting j hey, mclouth, and diaz back with a good hitting melky is good enough for our outfield i think esp. with blanco ready
What can be said about him that hasn't already been said? His every adjustment is a gift, his every at-bat a festival, his every swing a cool dewy breeze tinged with raspberry and incense. The only question is whether he'll win multiple MVPs or merely the Nobel Prize for Looking Like He Has Been There Before.
oxymoron...
good hitting melky
My opinion cant be wrong. It's my opinion. Those who don't like it can piss up a rope.
I said in '07
That we have seen what we could get out of him and that is pretty much it. He didn’t have much power, much power potential, or speed.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio
yeah, the glove has always been great but I have never thought he was going to get much better. He might have a year where he hits .330 but thats going to be it in my opinion.
He was already pretty old when we got a hold of him.
I think people viewed him on a “years as a pro” curve, rather than his true age curve, which was substantially further on.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
=
WHAT JUST HAPPENED????????????
I log off TC and when I come back, we trade one of the BEST defensive SS in the NL
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 14, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions
who is also one of the biggest head-cases in baseball
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the demarcus cousins of MLB?
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
http://www.nba.com/video/games/timberwolves/2010/07/14/1521000032_sac_min_recap.nba/index.html
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 15, 2010 4:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Really….a summer league video?
We have traded away great players for less than nothing and let Texierra walk away, and much much more so pray that Hayward is sent from God and that his energy can ignite the veterans and cause the younger players to hustle more and play winning baseball...
don’t be hating on THE BEAST
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 15, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He got markedly worse after that game.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Wanna hear the even better news
he was traded for a 33 year old SS with a sub .300 career OBP and a career OPS+ of 81. Real win now move.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
for the Jays
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
For a guy who just hit his 17th HR on Sunday
Yunel’s last HR….sometime last season…..
OBP is definitely important, but Yunel had become a reliable hole at the 8-spot. If I have the choice between 2 free-swingers, one of which GIDP a lot and doesn’t hustle with 0 HR (guys usually on base as well) versus a guy who gets out 70% of the time but is likely to homer the other 30%, I know which one I’ll take.
Especially since the gloves are equivalent (Yunel has slightly better numbers but not dramatically so).
This is such a FLUKE season for both
Gonzalez isn’t gonna keep hitting like this, and neither is Yunel.
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 14, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
except Gonzo won’t hit this well, Yunel will hit much better.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Respectfully Disagree
Not having followed Gonzo, it’s hard to comment other than asking what valid reason there is to expect a falloff.
Having followed Exco, it’s easy to ask for a valid reason to expect improvement. The guy simply has no power whatsoever this year, and is a solid GIDP/weak infield tapper. Occasionally he gets one out to the OF but then jogs instead of hustling.
a sub .300 career OBP
and having only hit about 15 HRs 3 other times in his career. Gonzo is having a career year at 33 in almost all of his stats so far. I don’t think I need to explain why there is good reason to expect a dropoff.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yunel has never hit 15 home runs though
by telemakhos on Jul 14, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
but he gets on base
70% more often. And he has hit 12. Close enough.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Gets on base 70% more often?
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
YEAH!
Haven’t you seen his .500 OBP?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The dropoff is obvious.
He has never done this before in a long major league career.
i agree with you
gonzalez has never put up these numbers in a 12 year career…he’s always been kinda sub-par to mediocre…
yunel has been great the last couple years…
just talking from a straight up production point of view…i understand there were other factors in play
by forgotten_glory on Jul 14, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I only like this trade if...
We make yet another move for a bat.
If we’re giving up on Yunel’s potential, we had better be in “Win it for Bobby” mode. I’m not saying we need to sacrifice the farm system, but we’d better make another addition to give us a better shot.
This move alone doesn’t make us dramatically better this season. Sure, if Yunel stays in this funk all season and Alex continues at his current clip, Gonzalez would be a significant improvement for the second half. If not, it’s a lateral move at best and Gonzalez could actually be a step back if Yunel gets going.
I really hope we didn’t trade a long-term player for a short-term answer, only to have that guy hurt our chances at winning it all…
-C
This is true
I would change my opinion a bit if this was a prelude to getting the OF bat we need. You voiced my thoughts on the matter very very well.
by Andy Braves Fan on Jul 14, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, by the way....
where did every see the stats for the rest of the 2010 and 2011 seasons for Yunel? It’s like some of you are already convinced he’s going to be an MVP or something.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
+1
It must be an ESPN Insider thing or something.
by dunnytwogloves on Jul 14, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
NEW BRAVES MINOR LEAGUE TREND
What doe these guys have in common?
Kyle Rose
Cory Harrilchak
Matt Lipka
Tyler Pastornicky
They’re fast?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
What do I win?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice!
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Ew
^quote some line that Jay Chandrasekhar says about CJs, ZJs, and other Jays in Beerfest
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Gondee put it best
Yunel’s fate was sealed when he almost had Glaus’ arm ripped off the other day. BC had it, FW had it, Chipper’s had it for awhile with Yunel. Bobby, Wags, and possibly Chipper are done after this year. For whatever possible marginal loss the Braves take on this (which is definitely not guarenteed) I give kudos to the front office for putting someone in place whos demenaor is likely to gel with the team. I hate that the organization basically threw up their hands and said “I give up” on Yunel, but such is life. FW is building a winning organization and one sour apple wasn’t going to hold the org back. I am excited about this! Go Braves!
And that's not just speculation...
Bowman reported as much on his blog at the official website.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Edward Salcedo?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
in what 3 years
im talking about next year or the year after that.
im thinking if he turns into Nate or Frenchy who is the stop gap until Salcedo
there are several decent SS coming tot he market in the offseason and the Braves have money coming free.
Gonzalez also has a cheap option for 2011 as well.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
FW could always trade for Jeff Keppinger:
he’d be another hometown hero!
"I have plus plus typing speed. You just have plus typing speed."
by GeneParmesan on Jul 14, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
it smells like the Braves were sick of Yunel Escobar playing like a jackass, as I was.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
"playing like a jackass???"
When??,
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 14, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
ive given up on reason, trying to convince them
save yourself the time
by kbertling353 on Jul 14, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
If you actually watch the games
and notice the little grimaces, the staring off into space, the lackadaisical jogs to first, the lack of teammate interaction, etc., you know what he means by ‘playing like a jackass.’
It's not that he doesn't care though
I like Yunel but thing is he’s a moody emotional type. He does care but when he’s not playing up to his own expectations he just closes down and gets depressed.
Once he gets a handle on this and matures he will/could be one of the greats. Hopefully this trade will help him realize his true potential.
Can I have your crystal ball? Cause I’d really like to find out the next powerball numbers in advance before that woman in Vegas.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Is that the same crystal ball that says Escobar's magically going to start hitting again?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You do realize he's 27 years old, right?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
you don’t earn the nickname “fucknuts” by playing flawless baseball, or even near flawless baseball.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Jul 14, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+++++++++++++
absolute truth has been written
Heyward is pretty good
I want to remeber how I felt the first time I read this comment for the rest of my life....seriously
Excellent.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
They were absolutely desperate to get rid of Yunel’s douchy ways.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I usually agree with Gondee, but....
I have to disagree with his statement about Gonzalez being a “proven major league shortstop.” Gonzalez is solid defensively, but his career offensive numbers are average at best. His career BA is only a few points higher than Yunel’s putrid number he put up in the first half.
I have no problem with moving Yunel given the problems he causes, but Wren should have gotten more in return. Yunel is a career .300 hitter and one of the best defensive shortstops in the game. He is worth a lot more than a 33 yo career .248 hitter who has had several injury plagued years.
This is a classic sell low/buy high situation. Escobar is having his worst year and Gonzalez is having his best. Let’s hope Gonzalez continues to play great in the second half. I just would much rather not have a guy who we have to cross our fingers and hope he continues to play well above his career numbers.
Yunel’s laziness put a teammate at risk of injury. You saw how mad Glaus was Friday night and Yunel didn’t even look like he cared. We got a guy who can help us now, a couple good prospects, and got rid of a LHP who will never succeed. Yunel was done in Atlanta. He needed to go.
you men this play???
http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=9836539
What did you want him to do? He had no time to set his feet, and did you really want Yunel to throw a bullet from that close to Glaus
SWING AND A DRIVE, BELTED RIGHT…..and McCann makes the catch by the dugout.
by Hudson's Soul Patch on Jul 14, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for posting that – b/c it reiterates several good points.
First of all, if you played baseball, you didn’t play first base. Never has a postiion player been taught to lollipop a throw – b/c that’s exactly what happens. You expose the 1B to make a play on a guy moving much faster than him.
Secondly, one jackass lollipops it, the second jackass Francouer is loafing it assuming he’s out on a high infield chopper and doesn’t hustle at all until he sees Glaus pulled from the bag.
Third, and most telling, not ONE teammate goes to Yunel to offer encouragement for a bad throw. For the ENTIRE delay he’s standing alone. And as he’s walking back to short he’s trying to defend whatever laziness he jsut displayed that almost took out his teammate.
That tells you right there, its not a one time deal. Not one word spoken. In my mind, it was the last straw and all we need to know as to why Yunel is in Toronto now. And the video doesn’t even show Yunel chirping at Chino in the dugout after the inning.
I’m sorry, but I your argument is not sound.
by CharlotteChop on Jul 14, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yunel is a moody Scorpio and very emotional. When he is good he is brilliant but when he’s down he’s really down and this affects the mood in the dugout and his level of play.
Overall the trade was probably necessary simply because we need a steady positive attitude on the team. Also necessary for Yunel to wake up and not take playing baseball for granted.
I predict he will wake up in Toronto and do well there.
It’s a win-win for everyone involved.
“Yunel is a moody Scorpio and very emotional.”
He also likes puppies, holding hands,& long walks on the beach.
A baseball diamond is, most simply, the intersecting of four 90-foot baselines, and, most powerfully, the intersecting of seemingly random lives.
Amazing...
The earlier open thread on this trade was borderline toxic with hyperbolic vitriole; this one, on the other hand, seems to be drowning in uncontrolled optimism! For me, the Braves got rid of a player (or two) they didn’t want, got his short-term replacement in return and further stocked an increasingly stacked farm system. More recently in his career, (Cincy ‘07, Boston ’09 and Toronto ’10) A-Gon seems to have turned things around at the plate to go along with a rock-solid rep in the field. We have him for 1.5 seasons at $3.7M-ish if we want him, so that’s nice. Bottomline: this trade just isn’t that big of a deal…
MileHighReport.com member since 02/06/07, promoted to "Position Coach" (i.e. new staff writer) on 02/16/10!
When I woke up and saw the deal, I almost hit a wall. Now that I think about it and see Tim Collins’ stats, I kind of like it.
I was so ready to get rid of Esco it wasn’t even funny.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
+ A MILLION!!!
I was so sick of him not running hard to 1st and goofing off. His head was not in the game. He was NOT a Bobby Cox player.
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 14, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. No one liked Yunel either except a few guys, if the reports from DOB are true.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If reports are true...
Nobody liked him at all.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I for one support this trade cuz it flat out makes our lineup better.
But should we expect this to be the only move FW makes before the deadline?
A lot of room in right center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets, the 2-1....
I think something else is coming….
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
at least now that FW has made a move
he won’t do something just so he can say he did it
by kbertling353 on Jul 14, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
……what?
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
lateral moves just for the sake of trying to look like we improved
by kbertling353 on Jul 14, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
reports are that the braves are going hard after cody ross now…
i dunno how in favor i would be of getting him unless we were able to give them melky or something, which wouldn’t happen…
by forgotten_glory on Jul 14, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
We still need one more move...
We don’t need a Corey Hart now, but we still could use a guy like Cody Ross.
at what price?...
although moving out Esco and Reyes but adding Gonzalez means we freed up a spot on the 40 man roster.
i'm gonna miss esco's defense
but the power will be nice, and JoJo is gone!!!!!
by SouthernPanther on Jul 14, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions
So glad to see that JoJo has hit the road!!
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i know right
FW is a genious to convince the blue jays to take jojo
by SouthernPanther on Jul 14, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I actually like what we got on minor league guys, but then again, I would have been happy if we got the rights to Dave Steib. Jo-Jo and headcase gone. Good deal!
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 14, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
One could say headcase 1 and headcase 2 are gone. haha
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jul 14, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait and see...
Gonzalez might just surprise you with the glove.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Imagine if we got Josh Willingham and add him to the lineup
Prado
Heyward
Jones
Glaus
McCann
Willingham
Gonzalez
Blance/Melky/Nate
That is a sick lineup if we could add Willingham.
Haha….that would be un-fair.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Wren was in a tough spot.
Do you put up with Yunel’s lapses of judgement/boneheaded moves hoping he will put it all together after the all-star break, or do you go ahead and get what you can while you can?
I can’t blame Wren…he upgraded the power in the lineup in what has been the weakest spot in the lineup. He got rid of a guy he’d given numerous chances to get his act together, and he did it without giving up any prospects (and even gave away Jo-Jo!).
Finally, I think this came down to either sticking with Escobar for the long haul, or bringing a stop-gap in until we can find a better solution, while improving the clubhouse attitude at the same time. He also did it all before any other division rivals made any big moves, so it added a bit of pressure to them to do something. It’s like Tuco says in “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly”: “If you’re going to shoot…shoot. Don’t talk.”
clever
"Infield hits are sexy, because they require technique."
-Ichiro
by VivaLosBravos on Jul 14, 2010 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny...
Escobar did succeed in Atlanta. He just wasn’t succeeding in the first half of this season. I guess a man could say, “Well, he’s not a winning ballplayer. Look at all the brain farts and stupid things he did here. That’s why he sucked while his gritty teammates ran roughshod over the NL.”
Well, that’s the kind of stupid view most of us make fun of people for taking, so let’s just say that Wren is desperate to win this season. He didn’t want to risk Yunel not hitting in the second half and then, gulp, having to play All-Star Superstar Omar Infante at shortstop. That’s it. There’s no other reason to make this move.
by Thrashy Thrashy on Jul 14, 2010 4:36 PM EDT reply actions
I hereby proclaim you a moron!
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 14, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Since there are 2.5 weeks left before the trade deadline and we have 100% of our prospects intact, I’m wondering if Collins might free up an arm for another trade. Maybe O’Flaherty. Pairing Reyes with Esco, would Wren pair McLouth with Jurrjens for a whammer-Jammer centerfielder? This trade makes me think Wren is in a dealing state of mind.
Heyward is pretty good
by bighop on Jul 14, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m with you, I don’t think he’s in the recliner with a cigar yet.
by CharlotteChop on Jul 14, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He said in an interview on 680 The Fan earlier today that he was basically waiting to see if McLouth could bounce back
And why would we deal JJ?
A lot of room in right center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets, the 2-1....
JJ would be great to keep for a playoff run, no doubt. But he will get expensive after this year. He’s arguably our best trade bait value-wise, having 3 yrs of team control remaining.
Heyward is pretty good
I'm pretty sure our best trade bait, value wise, would be Medlen or Hanson.
You concede a bit of team control, but you get a much lower salary.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That being said,
I don’t want us trading any of our starters right now. Don’t screw with a good thing.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he'll quite get to expensive.
$4-5 mil, max.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
i really hope we don't deal JJ
he’s pitched so well since he came back…and honestly i don’t miss KK in the rotation
by SouthernPanther on Jul 14, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I miss when we actually pitched everybody on our staff.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:33 AM EDT up reply actions
All I will say is
please don’t deal Jurrjens. We have plenty of guys we can deal without having to deal Jurrjens. On top of that, no one is going to trade a whammer-jammer centerfielder for Jurrjens and McLouth right now. If McLouth turned it on in the second half of the season, then perhaps come winter, someone would make that trade. Right now, it would be absurd.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
BJ Upton?
We can’t handle Yunel Escobar in the dugout and you want to bring in BJ Upton?
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
the change of scenery thing means maybe he can act right here, or if not we are less attached in non-tendering him or trading him after the season. Plus considering what he’s capable of giving, that’s a low price (if it’d even be acceptable).
Yunel was a slow build to get to this point, and Upton doesn’t have that past ill will.
I'm still not for it.
He’s never been a good clubhouse guy and the change of scenery thing usually only works for a short time. Our clubhouse has been so great this year, I don’t want to even possibly allow a guy like BJ Upton to come in and disrupt it. The team truly has a good chemistry.
In addition to that, I will say only this: Milton Bradley.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
whammer-jammer?
I think I’m going to have to rec this post.
Whammer-Jammer is professional baseball lingo for really good. Some people use words like “All Star” or “5 tool” or other less accurate descriptions, “Whammer-Jammer” is the more accurate description.
Heyward is pretty good
It does convey a mental image of awesome batting prowess.
"If you were going to make a Mount Rushmore of managers, Bobby's one of them."
-Mike Scioscia
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Jul 14, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm kind of "meh" about this one.
I think Escobar’s OBP will be missed, but Gonzalez’s power is nice. It seems like we traded 6 for a half dozen, at least t the major league level. I couldn’t care less about Jojo, and the AA shortstop we got doesn’t seem like anything special, but the AA lefty with a 15 K/9 could be the real gem here.
Still, I don’t see this making a huge difference for us this year (not NO difference, just not much of one), and I’ll miss Escobar’s flashy defense.
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backwards in a mirror." ~George Carlin
I've said my two cents...
I think this is an awful trade, but that’s why FW is the GM. I hope he’s right. Go Braves!
I know it's already been thought, but any chance...
we flip Tim Collins, and trade him, Melky Cabrera, Mike Minor, and Cody Johnson to the Nationals for Josh Willingham?
or even flip Tyler Pastornicky, and trade him, Nate McLouth, and Jair Jurrjens to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp?
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Jul 14, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
Please enlighten me...
1) what gives you any idea that a team would trade for Nate McLouth right now, and 2) why do you want to trade Jurrjens?
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
While that is hard to argue with,
I think that was largely more just for balancing numbers. I don’t think the same can be said for a guy like McLouth who’s making substantially more money than Jo-Jo.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right, McLouth’s money is a bigger issue than Reyes, but pairing him with a bargain might work to get rid of him, hence the idea of JJ.
Heyward is pretty good
Maybe it's just me,
but I would much rather see us deal Mike Minor (a guy who is more ready than any other starting pitching prospect in our organization) than JJ. I don’t want us to trade JJ. Since he’s come back from the injury and is completely healthy, he’s looked like the JJ of old.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
For your enlightenment...
Number two is significantly easier to answer, so I’ll start there:
1. JJ is going to demand significantly more money through arbitration as a Boras client than the Braves would like to pay, and the idea of signing a long-term deal prior to or through arbitration would give Boras nightmares.
2. At this point, the Braves have shown they can be just fine without him.
3. Pitching, ML-ready, proven pitching is what LAD needs.
Oh, and why would any team trade for McLouth? Maybe LA could think McLouth can play better with a change of scenery. Maybe they start Johnson in CF and view McLouth as an upgrade in LF over FUGA? Maybe because they view JJ as more of a need than Kemp and McLouth is just a replacement?
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I see your points
I just can’t see the possibility of it happening as anything more than remote. The Braves did well without Jurrjens, but that doesn’t mean they don’t need him. Injuries can happen anytime. I would prefer to keep our top-flight rotation intact and trade Minor to the Dodgers. He’s not ML-proven, but he’s doing pretty well.
As for the McLouth point, what gives LA any reason to think he would play better with a change of scenery? Since his last change of scenery, he’s done nothing but regress. If LA would take him now, they would take him at the end of the season, so there’s no reason for the Braves to deal him now when he could still improve. The Braves have a win-win situation right now with McLouth. If he returns to his old form, then you can keep him around, or you can sell high. If he stays at his current state (rock bottom), then you deal him in the offseason, since teams like the Dodgers might view him as an upgrade, or might think he’ll improve with a change of scenery. You don’t sell your stock just to sell it when it’s at rock bottom.
by hailtogeorgia on Jul 14, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
This article took the words right out of my mouth.
the only thing that I think that wasn’t mentioned that should be atleast thought about..not only does this trade work for atlanta in the 2nd half half hopefully and form better team chemistry and etc. , but we now have a player who faced AL East pitching..in which looking way ahead..if we make it the playoffs and win and make it to the WS..IMHO.. were gonna face 1 of the three.. Yanks, Rays, or Red Sox. Franky..you pulled this one outta your hat, congrats sir. The naysayers will jump on the band wagon come playoff time!
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions
The more I think about it...
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:54 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
the more I like the trade.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
its extremely likeable..after the initial shock sets in.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I will only DISlike this trade...
…if this is the only move FW and the FO make.
CF and LF are more pressing issues. Yes, we were getting more production out of McLouth/Hinske/Blanco/Diaz than Escobar, but LF/CF are supposed to be more offensive-producing positions than SS.
by Wren_and_Stimpy on Jul 14, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
i honestly think with diaz back..
we make no more moves..nate will atleast be given the opportunity to right himself IMHO.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. When I woke up my heart said no, but now my head says yes.
"Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward."
METS: My Entire Team Sucks.
Phillies Baseball: Established - 2008
by Scott Coleman on Jul 14, 2010 4:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My heart still says no...
it loved Esco. But my head can see the reasons pro and con. And it seems almost certain to be one move in addition to others. We just increased our farm instead of subtracting, and still have an excess of arms, and even excess valuable lefty relief pitchers with MLB experience, from which to deal. Not to mention an increase in infield prospects making possibly Myke Jones expendable. We’ve certainly got the ability to deal from a position of strength, and it may not even be needed if Diaz and mcLouth can show out in the next few weeks.
its hard for me to dislike a trade that brings in a guy with good defense
and who leads SS in HRs and has 50 RBIs. Fluke year or not i like those numbers and the prospects
A lot of room in right center, if he hits one there we can dance in the streets, the 2-1....
wondering when Tim Collins will be in a M-Braves uni? IF thats where he's going..
they play huntsville tonite, tomorrow and friday..I’m gonna try to make it to atleast tomorrow nite and friday..but maybe i could talk with him and get his thoughts??
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions
Career WAR's
Yunel’s career WAR: 11.1 in about 3.2 season’s worth of baseball. He’s 27, under team control until 2013, and is just hitting his peak. He’s also incredibly worthwhile at a premium defensive position.
Gonzalez’s career WAR: 12.1 in about 12 seasons. He’s 33, under control for one more year, and is most likely well over his peak. He’s having a fluke year, and will most likely regress in the second half and next year. His defense is by all accounts still good-very good, but still not Yunel-level.
There is no way to spin this trade as a win. Terrible move.
I guarantee that Yunel will post a better second half, WAR-wise, than Gonzalez will.
his attitude was bringing down the team
It’s not just about the raw stats.
yeah, his attitude brought them all the way down to the best record in the NL. Give me a break.
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 14, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
yunel..is that you?
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
And without him...
Who’s to say we couldn’t have had the best record in the igs?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
but how many team-mates will he get hurt..
how many attitude problems will the blue jays incur..what kind of loss in team chemistry will the blue jays have now? also, chippers batting title was won when he was how old? now i’m not saying chipper had a fluke year..or gonzalez wins a batting title..but think about it.. there are several players that are contributing heavily at older ages.. billy wags..youth is great..team control is great..defense is great..but when it comes down to it..veteran presence, team chemistry, and the ability to play as a team and not as 1 person is what our former SS lacked..along with 17 HR’s this year.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Then again...
Jones and Wagner had obviously shown abilities in their career to sustain the kinds of performances they’ve had at an older age. Not that I think Gonzalez is doomed to fall off (although he probably will somewhat at least), but he’s no HoF player like those two guys.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad...
That FW did not consult you before making this trade. It is totally a positive. No one has said the “c” word here, but based on the reports on clubhouse chemistry, Yunel was headed towards being a clubhouse cancer.
What manager John Russell thought when Morton hit J-Hey with a pitch, "Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapons!"
by I Saw Buzz Beaned on Jul 14, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What wins titles? Is it clubhouse chemistry, or is it talent?
Again, I ask you, if Yunel has been such a negative impact on all of the players around him this year, how are they possibly able to eek out the best record in the NL with an outfield held together by duct tape and dreams?
Talent wins championships. Clubhouse chemistry is overrated.
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 14, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Talent?
If talent wins every year than why have the Yankess only won one World Series in the last what, ten years? Ratard.
The Yankees consistently post one of the best records in major league baseball. This is because, over time, the better teams will rise to the top and the worse teams will drop to the bottom, thanks to increasing sample sizes.
Baseball is very random in terms of stretches of 5 or 7 games, like the playoffs, especially when you are pitting two very good teams against each other. The small sample size and relatively equal strengths leads to a very unpredictable outcome.
Thanks for the insult, though. You make very valid points and I welcome your constructive criticism.
by drdonkeypunch on Jul 14, 2010 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Best record in major league baseball? What did that get them? We also had what 5, 6, 7 seasons of winning 100 games or very close, with one World Series title? Maybe Escobar is more talented…but you under value chemistry. I was just watching ESPN and I think it was Buster Onley(SP?) who said, one of the Braves had a birthday and Escobar wished him happy birthday, the birthday boy said, " I just want you to play hard for my birthday." Should that even have to be said? Have you ever played sports? Do you want a player on the team that does not play hard game in and game out and that thinks he is bigger/better than the team?
This.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions
As a Cardinal Fan
I have to say I think you guys just got robbed. Over at VEB we have been drooling over Yunel for years. I could easily see Yunel hit better than A Goz the rest of the year. The dude just doesn’t walk and is HR lucky
i think everyone has drool'ed over his defense..
but seriously the guy has attitude problems and doesn’t remember there are 8 other guys in the lineup with him.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Just remember guys..
some folks laughed and didn’t like when we signed troy glaus to be our first baseman..look how that’s turned out.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 5:16 PM EDT reply actions
Glaus had a strong track record and had before been a dominant hitter, the question was his health and ability to bounce back from injury. Gonzalez has a track record that suggests he’s not going to replicate his first half numbers
by McCann's the Man on Jul 14, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
its never a good idea to rely ont he reactions of people who were clearly wrong with thier reactions as proof of something else…poeple who thought Glaus was a bad signing were dumb…no need to include them in future discussions…this trade is completely unrelated to that trade.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Fun facts:
Apologies if this has been brought up already
1. Alex Gonzalez, at 17 homers, has more home runs than Yunel Escobar and any one other Brave combined.
2. Alex Gonzalez, at .294, has a lower career OBP than Jeff Francoeur (!) by 8 basis points.
3. Alex Gonzalez’s best single-season OPS was .769 in 2007. Yunel Escobar’s OPS in 2008 and 2009 were .766 and .812, respectively.
4. Did I mention Alex Gonzalez has a career .294 OBP? His OBP thus far this year is .296.
5. On May 8, after hitting his 10th home run, Alex Gonzalez’s was .929. It’s now .793.
6. Alex Gonzalez’s career split is .248/.294/.402. Alex Gonzalez’s month-by-month split is Apr: .289/.317/.629. May: .243/.283/.311. June: .261/.313/.432. He hit 7 of his 17 home runs and 10 of his 25 doubles in April. Which month is not like the other?
by jc25 on Jul 14, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
- so you’re saying he is getting better.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Guys relax for godness sake
We are going to the playoffs this year and if I would have told you that all we had to do is have some luck, stay healthy sign all the guys we have to this point and lastly make a trade such as the Escobar for Gonzo over 90% would have said absolutely. The fact is Escobar made one day be great and i had defended him many times on here but the fact is that he HAS ZERO HR"S ???? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME. The guy was no longer a true RBI threat that he was a year ago and Gonzo is having a breakout year for a crappy Blue Jays squad and he has an option for one more season which is more than likely going to be picked up b/c it is so cheap like $2.5 mil I believe. Plus he is a experienced VET and heading into the playoffs you can never have enough. Stop whinning do you guys want the World Series or at the very least a realistic shot at one ? Escobar was not worth more than what we got at this very moment and the “bs” that he did with about getting Glaus armed ripped off was total BS; Yunel needs to grow up NOW. I still love the guy but he didn’t put up good enough offensive numbers this year and seems as if he doesn’t care. I WANT THE WORLD SERIES TITLE; and please stop whinning about the future, what good is the future is your sitting around in a lounge chair in OCT and watching other clubs enjoy the playoffs. The FUTURE IS NOW SO ENJOY THE FREAKING RIDE ALREADY. Escobar was never going to be R. Furcal b/c he doesn’t try hard enough to become better he relies to much on atheltic ability. That is my take I like the trade more and more that I think and seriously analyze it.
Go Braves.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jul 14, 2010 5:23 PM EDT reply actions
Just awful. Losing Yunel is not the disaster here, not by any stretch of the imagination but if we’re replacing him, why not say Stephen Drew, who by all accounts is available for the right price. Gonzalez is a mediocre offensive player who’s slugging nearly 100 points higher and whose ISO is roughly 80 points higher than his career avg. Color me skeptical but I doubt he’s finally turned the corner at age 33 and we should see a correction in the second half. Which would all be fine if he got on base at a decent clip, he doesn’t, or provided speed on the basepaths, not happening. If we had also been able to nab a guy like Chad Jenkins in this deal I could see the thinking but all I can say is Mycal Jones better keep moving up the organizational ladder because in all likelihood we’ll need him starting soon.
by McCann's the Man on Jul 14, 2010 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
And plenty of people were terrified we were going to have to start Freeman this year.
Like Wren said, we’re two years away from worrying about an SS, and that will take care of itself in time.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I know its completely OT but I need to say this.
I miss you, Jason Heyward. Hurry back.
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jul 14, 2010 5:46 PM EDT reply actions
Here's my take
We knew we had to make some moves heading into this pennant race.
(1) We desperately needed a right handed bat with power for the bottom half of the order
(2) Escobar had become a team cancer and was not hitting well or improving
(3) We have no hitting prospects to trade
(4) Because of (1-3) it was inevitable that Escobar would be packaged in a trade
Since Ecobar will be traded, what do we look for:
(1) We still need that right handed bat with the pop to drive in runs
(2) The outfield is already too crowded of a mixed bag
(3) We are probably limited in terms of what kind of salary we take on
(4) With Escobar gone we need a new SS, unless Infante takes the realms
This move fits everything above perfectly. Although I would have liked to have gotten more in total return for Escobar based on the very high potential he has flashed (with bat and glove) in the past, I think this move fits right now. We keep our prospects, we maintain our payroll flexibility, we maintain our good middle infield defense, and we replace a current .300 SLG hitter with a current .500 SLG hitter. Plus we replace a frosted-tip punk with a well liked veteran with playoff experience.
Getting rid of Jo Jo “was a man who thought he was a pitcher, but we knew it wouldn’t last” Reyes for two 2nd tier prospects is just icing on the cake.
I hate this trade.
Not for the fact that we traded Yunel, but for who we got for him. A 33yr old SS who has a career .248 Avg and a .294 OBP?? Collin’s has nice numbers but he’s a reliever not a starter, he’s another Kimbrel basically to me.
Both of these prospects weren’t even ranked among Toronto’s top 15 prospects coming into the season. Sure Gonzalez is having a power breakout year but have you checked his numbers from other years? He’s never had an OBP above .325 ever while Escobar has had an average OBP of .366 over the last three years.
I know Escobar got on peoples nerves but there’s no reason to sell so low on him right now, he’s an elite defensive player who has more potential than Gonzalez would ever dream of.
FWIW...
Collins has started most of his career.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.
by MichaelProcton on Jul 18, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow.
Nothing like a trade to spur on a whole slew of newbies. Lotta handles I’ve never seen before.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Wren thank you
We got a piece we needed and we still have all the young arms plus a new lefty with a 15.3k per 9 inning.. The rest of the NL east has to be worried about our stable of young arms coming up.. If not.. They will be.
The poster formerly known as: SidKotchman
by SidGlaus on Jul 14, 2010 11:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
The one thing that worries me is that the trade is referred to as the Escobar trade…that makes me uneasy for some reason.
other than that i think this deal is being made too big of a deal of. Escobar had apparently run his attitude around too much and the Braves didnt like it. He could turn his bat around, most likely will, and become the player he was last year… he could also never turn the bat around and be the player he was in teh first half. If its a loss its a slight loss. If its a win, its probably a slight win. If both prospects turn into ML players it worked out pretty damn good for us. At least everyone agrees that gettin rid of JoJo Reyes was a great thing. I think we should concentrate on that.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- James Loney: Umpires should call pitches from behind mound — and be robots with replay
- Magglio Ordonez set to retire after 15 seasons
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
- Jonathan Lucroy breaks hand after suitcase falls during search for sock
