Source Says Braves Made Offer to Damon
by gondeee on Feb 10, 2010 1:29 PM EST
in Braves Related Free Agents
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PrintFrom MLB Braves beat writer Mark Bowman:
Early this afternoon a Major League source confirmed the Braves have made a one-year offer to Damon. This source added that the offer included some money that would be deferred.
Shrug.
David O'Brien also weighs in with this comment:
Damon and Boras haven't backed off from demand for two-year deal; Boras says he already has at least one 2-yr offer but won't name team.
Boras has been known to lie through his teeth exaggerate when trying to get the best deal for his client. These certainly seem like words being used to parlay what is likely only a one-year Braves offer into a two-year offer.
I continue to stand opposed to bringing Johnny Damon into the fold. Steadfastly opposed.
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I’d call that first A-Rod deal a big sham from the very beginning, and I’ll always hold that against Boras. Having him at short stop and Chipper at third could have gotten us another championship some time in the aughts.
Yeah, but then A-Rod never would have done steroids, and still played like the whiny little bitch that he is and done us no good anyway.
by Bmacbandwagon on Feb 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
As for Damon
If this works out, I have to imagine that David O’Brien played at least some part in it. I mean, no one was interested in this guy but DOB kept writing about him on and on until fans started lobbying for him.
At any rate, this makes it harder for Heyward to get his Opening Day roster spot, since we now already have 4 outfielders-which is what we had for almost all of last year.
Chipper plays GM a bit too much for his own good.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
He’s starting to remind me of Favre in his last seasons in Green Bay a little, without the constant retirement talk.
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
I guess what bothers me is not that he has to be the gatekeeper and endorse everything and everyone, because I suppose he’s earned that to a degree—but that he’s mighty quick to do it with a microphone or a tape recorder in his face. He could stand to be a bit more diplomatic when it’s time to go on the record.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, that's what I love about Chipper.
He’s himself, he’s outspoken, and he doesn’t care who knows it. I respect him for that.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
Better than a robot like Tex
by playertobenamedlate on Feb 10, 2010 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
It’s funny, cause that’s what everyone disliked about Francoeur.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Except Chipper can make it count on the field…and at Hooters.
by soup du jour on Feb 10, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough ...
I don’t mind it personally. I do think he has earned the right to speak up, especially when he believes there’s an opportunity to improve the ball club. I mean, come on, compare him to most loose-lipped professional athletes, he pales in comparison.
Founder and Proud Member of the JASON SNELLING AIN'T ALL THAT AND A BAG O' CHIPS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
Well, of course he is. It’s not like he’s going to publicly rip other players by saying he doesn’t want to play with them.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
If he wants to be the guy who gives his two cents whenever someone gives him a chance, then it should work both ways.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Well, in this case I assume the primary reasoning is that he’s a veteran and that he’s a “lead off hitter”, our FO has been looking for someone who fits the traditional lead off hitter mold ever since Furcal left.
What, Juan Pierre wasn’t available? We couldn’t pull the trigger on Scot Posednik? Didn’t want Wily Taveras?
Thanks for nothing, Frank.
Did you want any of those guys?
Thank goodness Frank didn’t bring any of those guys in.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
^Sarcasm detector fail. I was pointing out how useless certain “traditional lead-off men” really are.
Ah....I'm way off on sarcasm today.
But still, you gotta give Damon credit for being way above those guys with his ability to hit home runs, doubles, and take walks.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
I agree… I understand that people don’t feel like we need Damon, but he’s a solid player. We shouldn’t get carried away and start dumping on him (except when it is merited, as with his noodle arm). I’d rather we save our money right now in case we need it at the deadline, but it’s pretty hard to argue that Damon would be a bad player.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I would call Diaz’s .390 OBP and 12 SB better for a lead off hitter than Damon’s .365 OBP and 12 SB… Just sayin
by Bmacbandwagon on Feb 10, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Prior to last season, Damon has been a 25+ a year base stealer in each of those previous 3 seasons (and last year he was hitting behind Jeter and ahead of AROD, so I’m sure that caused him to make fewer SB attempts). That’s what our FO has been looking for since Furcal left, your prototypical scrappy leadoff man who can steal bases, and Diaz simply isn’t that.
I’m also sure that they’re scared away from Diaz because of how he hit in 08 when he got the everyday job to start the season and was downright awful.
Were it up to me, I’d give Diaz the chance as an everyday player in LF, and bat him leadoff, but that just doesn’t seem like something that the team is inclined to do regardless.
If you think Jeter and AROD caused him to make fewer SB attempts, what do you think Bobby Cox will cause?
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 10, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
This.
I really don’t think SB matter much anyway on a Bobby Cox run ball club. I was just throwing them out there because their numbers were the same.
by Bmacbandwagon on Feb 10, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
I think that Bobby has his flaws as a manager, but he has always allowed players that can run to run.
We’ve just had a decidedly slow roster the past few seasons, I can’t think of a single person on our teams from the last couple of years that I look at and say, “Man, that guy’s channeling the speedforce, why isn’t he attempting more steals.”
Maybe so. I’m not really sure how Bobby stresses SBs, maybe he just doesn’t promote them much.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 10, 2010 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, Damon stole more bases before last year...
..but since he was hitting in the same line-up on a team that does run, I would be concerned that it was age and nagging injuries, not the line-up around him that caused him not to run last year.
He was hitting behind Jeter last year, in previous seasosn Jeter hit 2nd and Damon hit 1st. Having a guy on base in front of you, and having the best power hitter on the team up behind you will effect how often you steal.
Notice that Jeter went from 11 steals in 08 to 30 last year with his move to lead off.
That doesn't explain it either...
a GM caving to a beat writer’s obsession? I don’t think fans are clamoring for Damon either, or at least there are just as many against as there are for.
But a ?, why would Chipper be the one calling and not a former teammate like Derek Lowe or Melky?
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 11, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I'm with ya all the way, gondeee
A rough morning just got worse. If there is a just and loving God in the universe, then either A) this is all completely bogus or B) Cincy or somebody will swoop in with that 2 year deal he wants and this will all be moot.
My (very negative) thoughts are already on record...
… so I’ll try a different tack on this posting. IF Damon ends up wearing a tomahawk (shudder) this year, then there would seem to be a more pressing set of questions that would have to accompany such a signing:
1. Who gets moved elsewhere to accomodate JD? Certainly the ONLY reason to bring in JS would be to play LF in at least a platoon situation if not full time. Melky? Somebody gonna take his $3m contract?
2. Does the presence of JD make for a better team if we also have to move Melky or Diaz (please no)?
[10-4: ask Frank those questions!]
typo correction
That ‘JS’ should have been ‘JD’ — no, I’m not referring to Jordan Schaffer in that post.
If Damon signs
Heyward HAS to be the odd man out come Opening Day. Diaz and Melky aren’t going anywhere, unless it’s via some last minute trade. I’m not suggesting it’s the right move, but it’s the only feasible one.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Diaz is still the odd man out, not necessarily Heyward.
Heyward can play right field. As we saw late last season, Diaz cannot. Diaz is a left fielder, as is Damon. If Damon signs, one way or another, Diaz is going to get the shaft.
I suppose
but I can’t see them trading Diaz in favor of one year of Damon. That’d be a huge step backwards. And Matty deserves to play.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
depends on the return
if its someone like Scott Downs . . . .
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Tough call
I get that he’s good, but it’s not like this team is hurting for LH relief.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I see him more as a SU guy with Saito who can fill in at closer. That way we give Dunn more time to develop instead of pushing him to the Majors. He just made AA last year i believe.
Wags, Saito, Downs, Moylan, EoF, then two other relievers.
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Dunn had a brief stint in AA in 2008, and had a cup of coffee in the bigs in 2009. Considering that he pitched very well in AAA, he’s very close to being ready, if not actually there yet. Given that he’d be the 3rd lefty, I don’t think it’s asking too much to have him start the year in the bigs. The question is whether there’s a better option for the last man in the pen.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
you dont think Downs would be a better option?
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not for the money…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 10, 2010 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
What scares me is that offering a contract to Damon...
…probably means that the Braves think Diaz can play right field. Ruh-roh.
While it was a small sample size...
…Diaz’s UZR/150 in right field last year was -10.5. And watching him play it, it seemed much worse.
UZR
just isn’t accurate when you use a sample of less than a season. Even over a full season’s worth of games, there’s still plenty of uncertainty in the sample.
UZR data doesn’t see any great difference between the defense of Left fielders and right fielders. Therefore, if you’re average in LF, you should be approximately average in RF. Diaz is at least average in LF, perhaps slightly above. Over a full season, he should do all right in LF.
UZR data might not, but my eyes did.
Diaz was fairly average in left, but he looked horrible in right. As I noted, the sample size is too small to go on UZR for Diaz in right field because ideally you need about three years, but just watching it was pretty painful and the limited UZR data backs that up. The outfield we were trotting out there late last year was pretty horrific defensively. I just hope we don’t go that way again.
My eyes disagree
He took a couple of bad routes, and one bad error that I recall, but for most of the time, he didn’t stand out one way or another. He certainly wasn’t exceptional, but I don’t think he’s much below average in right.
Of course, we could get around this entirely by just NOT signing Damon, letting Heyward play RF, and keeping Diaz in LF, where he’s just much better.
I agree completely with that...
…we may disagree on Diaz in right, but I think we agree on the correct approach with Damon—-don’t sign him.
How does the UZR back you up? It is highly imperfect, especially based on less than a season. So UZR doesn’t mean anything in this case.
Damon sucks. No more Yankee trash Wren. If we sign him & kick Diaz to the curb & not Milky, what a huge mistake. Plus we get no better.
UZR to the extent it has any usefulness...
…with such a small sample size, does back me up as it shows Diaz fielded poorly in right field—-it isn’t that strong a back-up due to the sample size issue, but it doesn’t contradict my point.
I agree on Damon, I don’t see how he is necessary or better than Diaz as a left fielder.
Damon doesn't suck (except for on defense)
I get that we don’t need him, really. But saying he sucks is just way off base. A 3.0 WAR player is an asset, not a liability, even though (as in this case) he would be taking playing time from other equivalent assets.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
That's why it makes sense if he signs elsewhere.
He is still a valuable player, but not particularly valuable to us.
They aren’t going to firmly decide anything about Heyward until they see how he performs in Spring Training.
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 10, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
It would be nice...
…if we wouldn’t push guys to right who can’t really play it.
So we sit Diaz?
I guess I just don’t get the desire for Damon when he is only marginally better (if at all) than the guy we already have for that position.
really not a fan of this if its more than like 3-4 mil on a one year deal.
only reason i could see the team changing their mindset is if they got cold feet about Heyward starting in RF.
Either that or they already have a deal worked out to move Melky or Diaz
And that wouldn't even make much sense.
If we were worried about Heyward being ready, why not sign a right fielder? Diaz was somewhere between pretty bad and downright awful when we had him play right field last year. How many left fielders are we allowed to send out there in a game?
well
they are prob looking at cabrera as a possible fill in. Which i dont agree with.
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, Melky is the obvious fill in.
While he works better in a fourth OF role, he and maybe a bit of Hinske could cover right field if we decide that Heyward is not ready. They also allow us to make Heyward win the right field job instead of having it given to him without providing competition that he cannot beat.
Signing Damon still doesn’t make sense to me unless as you note in the last sentence of your first comment, they have a deal to trade Diaz. Signing Damon leaves Diaz as a man without a position.
I think i'll just keep my opinions on this to myself
i don’t want a bunch of people yelling at me.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Feb 10, 2010 2:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Bad idea
Hopefully Damon has gotten and will accept a 2 year deal from some other team, like Cincy or the Pirates, I mean both of those teams some something to bolster their ofenses, the braves are on the winning end of a rebuilding process and signing a yet another player who will have no real part in the future of the franchise is a really bad idea. He’s never played in the national league and has spent most of his career hitting in hitte’r parks. Plus he throws like a girl.
depends on the money
LF diaz/damon, CF mclouth, RF heyward
melky can we an insurance…
from the talk of it, it seems like the deal isnt going to be too much money
that would be stupid
to carry 5 outfielders. they would trade diaz and utilize Cabrera as a platoon/defensive replacement
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
UPDATE FROM DOB
@ajcbraves Braves offer to Damon is believed to be worth at
least $5 million, although some of that would be deferred.
still feeling some type of way
$5million? wtf? i only want Damon if its for a million bucks or so.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Feb 10, 2010 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
shit, same here.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Feb 10, 2010 2:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
would be funny
if he flips damon . . . or wait is there a rule about that?
Wouldnt mind trading for Brandon Phillps
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
There is a rule against that.
Free agent signees cannot be traded until June, I am not 100% sure which date in June.
Besides, why would anyone trade for Damon if they could have him for slightly more than whatever he theoretically signs with the Braves for without giving up any players?
eh
i was saying him in a package for something i dunno
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Free agent signees cannot be traded until June, without permission from the player
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
That is incorrect.
Free agent signees cannot be traded at all until June. Free agents who accept their team’s arbitration offer cannot be traded until June without their permission.
Not ok with $5 million
Maybe $2 or 3 million, but not $5 million. At that point, we’re getting close to Javy’s salary with just Melky and Damon…Not cool
Doing the math...
How, exactly, is $5M + $3.1M “close to” $11.5M? Especially if some of that $5M is deferred?
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Dear Lord...
…thank you for making Damon dumb enough to not jump on this.
Amen.
I just vomited on my dog. That made the dog, in turn, vomit. There’s a lot of vomit on the floor, and I’d rather clean it up than see Damon play LF for us this year.
5 million?
Did Ted just buy the team? WTF? That’s WAY too much for Damon. Good Lord. If that’s true I’m going to start cutting.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not ok with giving Damon
ANYTHING!!! I really DO NOT want Damon PERIOD! Why should the Braves waste money on another guy well past his prime who’s terrible on D.
Thank you … not enough people realize that he is, in fact, Garret Anderson. Just replace that little bit of power left and sub in a little bit of speed. We got a guy with alot of everything waiting to show the world.
all this speed he supposedly has
but cant catch a ball in LF
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
If you really feel this way then you are hopeless. Garret hadn’t posted an OBP above .350 since 1995. Damon hasn’t posted an OBP BELOW .350 since 2003.
http://www.whensidslid.com
huge THIS
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, no, Damon is a much better offensive player than Anderson because Damon actually gets on base at a good rate.
He hit in front of Tex and A-Rod, and he did it at Yankee Stadium. He’s not going to be that good. What I’m saying is there is a reason no one wants him. And don’t say it’s his price, it’s baseball and it’s Boras, a deal would get done if someone wanted him that bad.
There is basically 0 evidence that the surrounding lineup influences a player’s walk rate.
Plenty of teams want him, it’s just that most teams have reached their budget by now and can’t afford more than a few million. He and Boras miscalculated the market for LFs in a major way. He could have had $7M from at least the Yankees, and probably other teams, if he had signed in December.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
You cannot be serious.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Feb 10, 2010 3:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
We have more outfielder's than we need.
Why add another???
When asked what aspects of Heyward’s game need improvement, one scout simply replied, "Nothing."
DOB is now reporting that a source says Chipper Jones called Damon to make a recruiting pitch.
This story is barreling downhill, faster than Clark Griswold on a greased up sled.
by hoboken_wood on Feb 10, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
My confidence goes from 8 to 7 if he signs. The Braves don’t need him; he’s overrated and washed up. We have a good outfield now, whether or not Heyward makes the team. Damon just makes it worse.
Overrated, I can see
But there is no evidence that he is washed up. At least not yet—you could make an argument that he will be soon.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
um….his drastically declining defense and diminishing power indicate he is, at least, becoming washed up.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Feb 10, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think you can say he has diminishing power.
Damon’s 24 HR last year matched his career high. No, he won’t hit that many in Atlanta (and no I don’t want us to sign him unless he is really cheap and hence expendible), but he never really was that much of a power hitter ever. The defense is declining and the arm is completely gone, but the power is probably more or less what it has always been—-last year’s short porch HR’s aside.
ugh
please stop with his HR totals from last year. In that stadium all you had to do was pull a fly ball to LF and you got a HR.
by drumzalicious on Feb 11, 2010 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
ok here is a positive outlook
IF we sign Damon he does bring lack luster defense however he has a pretty good OBP in the .350 – .370 range. He has never struck out more than 100 times in a full season. Which means we are going to get a very patient and disciplined hitter at the top of our line up instead of McLouth who isnt as patient and who’s OBP is not that great in the lead off spot.
Now signing Damon would most likely mean a trade of Diaz as Melky can cover all 4 OF spots and can bat RH if we needed him to. What this does also present the club with is the insurance that if Heyward isnt ready they have 4 ML ready OFers already if he is ready then we will deal Diaz.
With Heyward in RF McLouth can feel a little more comfortable shading towards LF and not having to cover as much ground as he did last year when Diaz and FYF were out there.
So if Heyward breaks camp and we have Damon we will have a pretty deep lineup with a good bench still. Trading Diaz would offset some of whatever cost Damon comes at.
If Schafer is ready later on in the season I would say call him up to play CF and trade McLouth only if Heyward is hitting well so we dont have possibly two black holes in our lineup.
So projected lineup with Heyward and Damon
Damon LF
Prado 2B
Chip 3B
Glaus 1B
McCann C
McLouth CF
Escobar SS
Heyward RF
Pitcher.
Bowman had McLouth hitting 2nd but i like him lower
McLouth’s OBP is above .350 too in each of the last 3 seasons. I’m just sayin’
Shouldn't Reid Gorecki get a shot in RF before that Heyward kid everybody talks about?
I agree ...
I really don’t see this as an epically bad move, as long as the price is right. But Ryhno (below) is correct re: McClouth’s OBP.
Founder and Proud Member of the JASON SNELLING AIN'T ALL THAT AND A BAG O' CHIPS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
No ...
but where are you getting that figure? I thought the financial terms of the offer weren’t released, and there’s a difference between what he wants and “the right price,” so to speak.
Founder and Proud Member of the JASON SNELLING AIN'T ALL THAT AND A BAG O' CHIPS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
@ajcbraves Braves offer to Damon is believed to be worth at
least $5 million, although some of that would be deferred.
Oh ... well my bad then
but depending on how much is deferred, I’m still not sold it’s an epically bad deal.
Founder and Proud Member of the JASON SNELLING AIN'T ALL THAT AND A BAG O' CHIPS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
well actually...
a platoon of Diaz/Damon would be much better than a Diaz/melky platoon. I’m just worried that if we got Damon, we wouldn’t platoon him, and Diaz would get screwed out of much deserved playing time.
If the Braves get Damon, we better platoon him with Diaz in left and have Heyward start in RF on Opening Day. Then we’re gonna need something to do with Melky, perhaps trade him for prospects or something.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Hello!
Funny how eager some folks are to hold on to Melky all of a sudden …
Founder and Proud Member of the JASON SNELLING AIN'T ALL THAT AND A BAG O' CHIPS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
Well
We gave up Vazquez and he was a big part of the return. Plus, his defense is actually pretty good, and we’re not overstocked with good defensive outfielders.
I'm feel ya ...
There are just so many “what if” scenarios at play here. What if Vasquez crashes back to mediocrity? What if we got a decent return on Melky? What if Viz is all that and a bag of chips?
I don’t post here often, but when we traded Vasquez, it seemed like most posters were initially very skeptical of Melky, and now he’s getting all this indirect love. Throws me for a loop is all.
Founder and Proud Member of the JASON SNELLING AIN'T ALL THAT AND A BAG O' CHIPS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA
Very good point.
I think commenters on the internet (not just here) have a tendency to decry anything that is new or threatening to their worldview. Yesterday’s garbage becomes today’s treasure merely by virtue of it not being today’s garbage.
I’ve always personally been optimistic on Melky and indifferent on Damon, but it’s sometimes hard for me not to get carried away by the perceived need to react to everything RIGHT NOW.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Melky is a Brave to start 2010. I’m not a huge supporter of him but if this deal does go through, Diaz is traded or JayHey goes back down.
Sweet crystal ball
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
There is only one FUGA.
Damon isn’t a bad player, we just don’t need him.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
There are more than one FUGA's...
…but Damon isn’t really one of them. He is still a useful player and he would make sense for the Braves if we didn’t already have a left fielder who is about as good as he is or better (Diaz). This year’s FUGA, who we seem to have avoided, is Jermaine Dye.
So true.
Dye’s defense is atrocious. Damon is fine in left, he just has a noodle arm.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's amazing they keep trotting Dye out there in right...
…he has been consistently horrific for years now. Not Adam Dunn bad, but the next level of bad.
Damon was horrible last year. And it got worse as the year went on. Ask Yankee fans-at the end of the year, they were just praying that the ball wouldn’t be hit to LF during the playoffs.
He was bad last year, definitely
I just don’t think he’s really that bad of a fielder though. For his career he’s put up slightly above average UZR/150 in left field, for some reason I just think he had a bad year last year. Of course, this is completely my opinion and I don’t have too much to back me up on that.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he can physically take being an everyday fielder is the problem, in previous years with the Yanks he got a lot of games in at DH and his UZR was solid, last year Matsui couldn’t play the field at all, so Damon started in LF all season.
The only way I want us to sign Damon is if it is with the understanding that he has to split time with Diaz in LF.
I completely agree.
Damon would excel in a platoon role. Taking last year’s stats and giving Damon 70% of AB’s and Diaz 30%, a Diaz/Damon platoon would put up an OPS of .923.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
this
I heard a quote from an “anonymous team official” who just laid into Dye’s defense. Said he was considering signing him until he asked scouts and looked at the metrics. Apparently both agree that he’s terrible in the field.
I think I’m going to start spelling his last name DHye, just to get the point across.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
I said it before and got screamed at but you’re so right. I don’t care if his stats are better or not, there is a reason no one has signed him. This is baseball if your really want someone, money isn;t an issue and he has Boras who gets every deal done.
There is a reason Damon hasn't been signed
it’s not because he’s a bad baseball player. It’s that his asking price was ridiculous this offseason, and there was a crop of other outfielders to be had for cheaper. Boras is good but he’s not perfect. He misread the market for Damon and I think screwed him over.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
This
I think when all is said and done, Damon should fire Boras. He cost JD who-knows-how many millions. Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to hold out for a pay raise from the Yankees with all the other LFs on the market? Boras often works wonders (see: Holliday’s contract), but this was just stupid.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think the reason he hasn't signed are his defensive limitations.
He is left field/DH only. There just weren’t that many jobs for that position open and Damon wanted ridiculous money. Damon will probably be a steal for someone this year. Since he really isn’t better than our current left fielder, he doesn’t really make sense for us, but he could give great value to a team needing a left fielder/DH when his price drops, ala Bobby Abreu last year.
OK, so how do we have a job open for him at any price. Diaz is a good baseball player. We are fine there, ESP. with Melky, Hinske and possibly if Schafer excels he can come up and move Nate over.
A move like this would REALLY block Schafer from coming up this year.
Plus, if it turns out that we could have kept Vazquez at the cost of having Saito, Melky, and Damon, I’m going to crap my pants. He’s easily worth more than those three are combined.
Oh yeah Schafer has no chance. I’m just saying there is plenty of options in LF and we don’t have room for Damon.
It wouldn't block Schafer.
Schafer plays center. McLouth is blocking Schafer.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Ideally, we’d move McLouth out of CF and into LF, since he’s below average as a CF (though he was pretty decent last year). Nate’s bat plays in the corners, and his defense would be well above average there, so we’d end up with a good defensive outfield.
I'm for that,
but I think Schafer is going to get some serious AAA time.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
If Schafer tears up AAA,
he’s probably most valuable as trade bait. Hate to say it, but it looks that way regardless of whether we sign Damon.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Schafer's value
is in making McLouth expendable. 17 mil for ’11 and ’12, McLouth is getting expensive with $800,000 for 2 years of Schafer available.
huh?
If Schafer tears up AAA the only way he is moved is if Chip says he’s retiring at the end of the year and we’re getting Evan Longoria.
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
im just asking
i remember last year i liked the FUGA signing because i didnt know crap about URZ and WAR. I hate it because what is Jordan plays good in ST then what we have a clusterfuck of an OF. Also feeling lazy and dont want to read to much just basic yes or no would be easier
Schafer’s not making the team out of ST, even if he looks great. I’ve read multiple places that the Braves want Schafer to have some time in AAA with a late season call up being possible.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
This point's been made before,
but it deserves to be repeated. Damon is no FUGA. Damon in 2009 was a 3 WAR player who is mediocre in left largely due to his terrible arm. FUGA, when we signed him, had had a total of 3.4 WAR over the previous 4 seasons and moved like an ent in LF. There’s just no comparison.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes I wonder
If the Braves are just a very uncreative team. They think to themselves “We need a lead off hitter!” So they look to Nate McClouth, who’s numbers aren’t bad but aren’t outstanding either. Since Nate McClouth is fast and small and has hit lead off before they think he is our best option for a lead off hitter. Escobar’s RISP numbers are too good and Prado isn’t a good candidate to lead off. I feel, they look at those three things and then think “Hey! Johnny Damon, a lead off hitter, is still on the market, let’s sign him! Because he hits lead off, and was good at it in the past!”
They completely overlook Matt Diaz, who tore it up at the top of the order last year and has a career OBP of .358 (or somewhere close). If it weren’t for ‘08 it’d be even higher. Last year his OBP was .390 and he doubled his previous career high in walks. I honestly don’t think the front office (or maybe our manager, hate to say it) sees this because they are putting a premium on things like speed or experience in the lead off spot.
Obviously I’m a Braves fan, but being from St. Louis I see a lot of Cardinals games. I really really really hate to say this but were Tony LaRussa managing this team he would be batting Diaz lead off. I hate Tony LaRussa, but I really think he’d say to the front office “Hey, we’ve got a guy already who can do just as good a job as Damon, I don’t put a premium on steals anyway so speed isn’t much of an issue”. Unfortunately that is not what’s happening. Now obviously Bobby Cox isn’t directly doing anything, I have no idea how involved he is and I’m not trying to put blame on him. But they obviously talk to Bobby about these things, and he, just like the front office, is completely overlooking our best lead off option. Just my thoughts. I really don’t want Johnny Damon
Diaz's OBP against righties was .349 last year.
I don’t think he’s worth putting in a leadoff role, because against 70% of pitchers he’ll have a .349 OBP.
A Damon/Diaz platoon would be amazing. The Braves may have that in mind, and while I don’t think they do, it’s very possible.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Eh? If Diaz could replicate his .349 OBP against RHP from last season I’d love to have him play everyday and leadoff. That’s pretty solid, especially if you assume that he’s raking LHP as he usually does.
To me the issue is that Bobby and/or the FO just doesn’t have faith in him as an everyday player, so if he’s going to have to platoon, who is the best platoon option?
Well....Damon, I guess
Damon hits righties very well, he’s had an .889 OPS against righties the past two seasons.
I absolutely love the Cave man, but he’s a .750 OPS bat in the lineup 70 percent of the time.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
Diaz deserves a chance to lead off. That .390 OBP last year was sick, and he’s even being denied a regular spot in the line-up. At the very least, he should be leading off against LHPs, since he simply kills them (career OBP .384 vs LHPs) but he’ll end up in the 8th spot.
i agree
just for that i hope Damon gets hurt and Mclouth cant run fast anymore lol
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think Damon will directly interfere with Diaz’s opportunities any more than he should. We’ll still have three LH outfielders for him to fill in for. We can get Damon and still give Diaz (and Hinske for that matter) all the PA they need. Diaz is a great on lefties but he still isn’t an every day guy.
All this being said, deferring the money makes that $5 MM less than $5 MM. And I think you do have to take that into consideration too.
If they platoon Damon/Diaz, we’ll get premium production in left. That’s worth noting. He’s sort of fallen into our laps so why not? He’s this year’s Abreu but with solid defense in left vs poor defense.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
I disagree. Diaz isn’t horrible against RHP & has hit them well before. I think he does deserve a chance at LF everyday.
A career 22.7 K% vs RHP
A career .111 ISO vs RHP
Even last year in his career year he only posted a .255/.349/.400 – .749 OPS and he still struck out 25.6% of the time vs RHP last year. And the nice OBP is more an indication of his ability to take HBP than walks (though both are appreciated equally, one requires plate discipline which is something Diaz simply doesn’t have much of against righties).
Diaz is Pujols vs lefties, but Francoeur vs righties.
History says you can’t play Diaz in LF everyday vs RHP. Especially not when you could have .900 OPS production from the position utilizing him in a platoon that would cost less than $7 MM.
Q: If on-base pct is so important then why don't they put it on the scoreboard? -Failcoeur
A: Because the Braves don't want to show their fans how bad you suck.
The problem with widely available statistics is that people will invariably use them incorrectly and then make strange/inaccurate comparisons based off of them. Francoeur vs. RHPs? Indeed…
sOPS+ is that players OPS relative to the league in that particular split. Over 100 is better than average, below 100 is below average. In 2009, his sOPS+ against right-handers was 108. I’ll ignore 2008 since he was hurt and had less than 200 PAs, and look at 2007, in which he posted an sOPS of 109+ against RHPs.
If he’s above league average against righties, why exactly is letting him play such a bad thing?
That's a great plan except it won't happen.
Damon won’t sign to be a platoon player.
lol, oops...
…I guess I already posted that hours ago.
Damon won't sign to be a platoon player.
He will only sign at the money we’ll offer for an every day job. And that would block Diaz because Diaz can’t play center and is bad in right.
How in the Hell can DOB say on the AJC that Chipper has reached out to Damon via a phone call to recruit him and then in the next sentence say that Chipper would not confirm that the team asked him to call Damon? Huh???
“The Braves have made a one-year contract offer to free-agent outfielder Johnny Damon and had star Chipper Jones call him to make a recruiting pitch, a person familiar with the situation said Wednesday.
Jones would neither confirm nor deny that the Braves asked him to reach out to the former Boston and New York Yankees leadoff man, but the third baseman said Damon could help make the Braves a stronger team."
What kind of journalism is this? And $5m for one year of Damon…pass!!!!!
Dave
Suwanee, GA
http://www.ten1photography.com
That IS kind of funny, but I think he’s trying to say that Chipper made the call, but wouldn’t confirm whether he was prompted to call or not.
I get that…but talk about really stretching it…I think Boras has offered DOB a % of Damon’s next contract if he gets signed with the Braves….this is incredible. I could understand if he was a 29-33 year old player still in his prime (and I’m not saying Damon is past his prime), or even a career .300 hitter, but this guy is no spring chicken anymore. And his lack of a throwing arm sure doesn’t help.
Dave
Suwanee, GA
http://www.ten1photography.com
Matt Diaz f****** rules
Matt has Atlanta Braves written all over him with his hard work and team play. IMO Matt Diaz brings more to the field AND to the locker room than Damon could. I’m getting more and more sick of DOB every off season.
"Braves fans in the hizzy" -Boog
"Is that like the crib?" - Joe
by GwinnettBraves on Feb 10, 2010 4:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions
FRANK WREN......IF YOU CAN HEAR ME!!!!!!
Matt Diaz deserves this. He may not be the long time answer but currently the best option we have(and that’s not a bad option). He has earned this shot. He is a baseball player, a winner and he is going to hustle his ass off. And at $2.5mil, he’s a better option than Damon at $5, $2.5 or even $1million. Lead off, 6th, 7th, 8th i don’t care and he doesn’t care, let him play and prove himself. He’s not going to be an All-Star or make a jaw-dropping web gem every night, but he will never let anything out there or have all of us pissed off at him. He is a good player. There isn’t one of you out there that can honestly say Damon is more than a good player. However, most of you are with me and don’t think even that of him.
Diaz/McLouth/Heyward is set. We have two guys capable of 4th and 5th OF’s. A healthy Schafer and you never know what else can be. Let this thing go we don’t need Damon.
if anyone posted this i missed it...... my bad
4:04pm: Tyler Kepner of the New York Times tweets that he’s hearing the Braves’ offer to Damon is $2MM now plus another $2MM deferred.
Eh, i wish it was a little less than $2MM, but I’d do it for a little less than that.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
by Scott Coleman on Feb 10, 2010 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
If anyone else compares Johnny Damon to FUGA one more time I think my head is gonna explode.
Remember folks, I'm almost always wrong.
My sig was too long...
Everyone Slow Dooooowwwwn
We dont even know if Damon will be signed. Boras is demanding a 2 year deal, and the Braves are only offering one. Thankfully for us, both Damon and Boras are too gready to accept this ( I hope.)
Now lets say that the braves do sign Damon. They could trade Melky to a team needing an outfielder for some IF prospects (we lack depth at SS.) I have been against signing Damon all along because I am really excited about Heyward, and seeing Schaefer get back on track., and if Damon ends up with us they will see less time. In my opinion, and I think most people would back me up on this, Damon is best suited for the American Leauge. At 37, his defense which was never very good to begin with, is at an all time low, and hes spent his entire career there (right?). Hopefully he will sign with the Tigers, and can DH for them. I think that is his best bet and Boras knows this. Its really hard to guess what will happen, but I could see Boras holding out a little longer to get Damon a better deal somewhere else.
I wouldn’t be so cavalier about being able to trade the Melkman. He’s owed $3MM…and realize how many teams don’t have any budget left over. We’d have to eat some of that salary to get anything back.
by soup du jour on Feb 10, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
I think some one may have said it earlier, but we can avoid that debacle by not signing Damon. But you may be right about melky, really I would like to see Mclouth,Diaz, Melky and Heyward ou there. Also we have Hinkse who can fill in ocassionally if Heyward isnt quite ready by opening day. Damon really doesnt provide anything we dont already have.
The problem with that plan is that Damon does not replace Melky.
If we sign Damon, we might as well trade Diaz. They are both left fielders and you can only play one at a time, and Damon won’t sign to be a platoon player. Melky, on the other hand, is a fourth OF, he can play all three OF positions and is a switch hitter. The versatility makes him a better fourth OF than Diaz—-we don’t have anyone other than Melky who can legitimately play centerfield when McLouth needs to rest or hits the DL.
i just dont understand why
the Braves are taking all the Yankees garbage outfielders? They both have played only in the AL and Yankee stadium is completely different from the Ted.
getting Melky as a 4th outfielder/platoon guy is fine. but adding Damon as well would not only hurt the team but weaken the Vazquez trade a bit as well.
by Jam_2_Fluffhead on Feb 10, 2010 7:09 PM EST reply actions
Well, we aren’t taking all their garbage OFs… Matsui signed with the Honolulu Angels of Anaheim. Though none of those guys is “garbage,” either. A “garbage” outfield is the one we started 2009 with.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Feb 10, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
well the plus side of it
is if we make it to the WS we can use Damon as the DH and our OF be McLouth Schafer Heyward
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on Amount deferred ~
If the contract is for paying Damon say $2.5 mil this season and begin paying him say $2.5 mil next season regardless if he is with the team or not then the deal would be alot eaiser to swallow for sure. Damon was once a elite hitter but in typical Bobby Cox and Braves fashion we have to go out and make an offer to a older once great player to try and get one more season out of him. I would still take Damon over Melky however, Melky needs to go and his $3.1 mil dollar salary; if Damon comes in then don’t even think about seeing Jason Heyward before the All-Star break.
RF: J. Damon
LF: M. Diaz/M. Cabera
CF: McClouth
Batting Order w/ J. Damon:
1: J Damon
2: N. McClouth
3. C. Jones
4. T. Glaus
5. Big Mac
6. Y. Escobar
7. M. Prado
8. Diaz/Cabera
9. Pitcher
Of course depending on LH vs RH pitching Diaz/Melky could be interchanged as could Prado and McClouth in the batting order; the lineup could be very deep all of a sudden of course if Damon was signed I would want Melky moved. I very liked acquiring him in the first place. Trade Melky for another bullpen arm and lets get Damon and move on.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Feb 10, 2010 9:50 PM EST reply actions
WHAT THE HECK!!!
Damon in RF? You’re crazy
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Damon would have to throw home on singles, zinger!
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Feb 10, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
lol
although you’re right.
i cant imagine a ball hit into the corner. It would be inside the park home runs every game
by drumzalicious on Feb 10, 2010 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
The problem with that is too many left fielders.
Melky is a fourth OF, Damon can’t replace him; Damon plays only left field, while Melky can give rest days to starters at all three OF positions and is really the only player on our likely 25-man roster who can spell McLouth in center. I don’t mind Damon, and Melky may be a bit of an overpay, but Melky does provide something of value that Damon does not: flexibility (all three OF positions and he is a switch hitter). If Damon is signed, it is really Diaz who is the odd man out—-you can’t play them both in left field.
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