How the Braves 25-Man Roster Shakes Out
by gondeee on Jan 7, 2010 11:48 AM EST
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PrintWe did this a couple of weeks ago, but we've been told by Atlanta Braves General Manager Frank Wren that pretty much all the dealing and signing is done of for this off-season, so let's take a look at what the Braves 25-man roster will look like on opening day. This assumes no injuries between now and then, as well as several other assumptions listed below.
Lineup
1. Nate McLouth, CF
2. Martin Prado, 2B
3. Chipper Jones, 3B
4. Troy Glaus, 1B
5. Brian McCann, C
6. Yunel Escobar, SS
7. Jason Heyward, RF
8. Matt Diaz, LF
Rotation
1. Tim Hudson
2. Derek Lowe
3. Jair Jurrjens
4. Tommy Hanson
5. Kenshin Kawakami
Bench
1. David Ross, C
2. Omar Infante, IF
3. Melky Cabrera, OF
4. Eric Hinske, OF
5. Brooks Conrad, IF
Bullpen
1. Billy Wagner, LH
2. Takashi Saito, RH
3. Peter Moylan, RH
4. Eric O'Flaherty, LH
5. Kris Medlen, RH
6. Jesse Chavez, RH
7. Mike Dunn, LH
Here are some assumptions I'm making, as well as some comments:
- Heyward will make the team. As long as he has a good spring, or at least finishes strong, this is the right move, as his presence will make the club better in the long term. Besides, he should be in the no pressure 7th spot in the lineup. This is also an assumption based on the hints we've heard from the Braves all off-season.
- The bench probably has one open spot, and I've given that to Brooks Conrad. Hinske has the flexibility to play the corner infield positions, so it's just a matter of whether the team wants another backup middle infielder or another pure pinch hitter off the bench like Mitch Jones. Conrad may provide more flexibility, especially when factored in with Prado's flexibility.
- The bullpen didn't change from the last time I did this, and why should it? The only ways in which I see it changing are from someone on the list above getting injured, or for some reason just being wildly ineffective in spring, then there might be a chance for one of the other kids to slip in. Note that Scott Proctor will likely not be used by the Braves until June (this is to preserve the club's control over him for another year).
- With Heyward in the everyday lineup and Melky and Hinske on the bench I really like how strong our bench becomes. Both strong and extremely flexible. Flexible not only in the positions that can be played, but also in the combination of power and speed and good defense. This could be the strongest bench the Braves have had since the days of Gerald Williams.
- I am uber-excited to have Glaus in the middle of this lineup. Not only does he add that right-handed bat we've been seeking, but he takes the pressure off of both Chipper and McCann, and moves guys like Escobar and Heyward into low pressure run producing spots. Glaus makes this entire lineup work. His health will be critical to the Braves success this season.
- I could see Diaz and Prado swapping spots sometimes, especially when Diaz in the midst of one of his "hit everything" phases. I'm also eager to see how both of these guys handle what should be everyday roles, though I fear Diaz may fall back into a platoon with Melky and/or Hinske.
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agreed
That’s where it stands now as I see it too, especially against LHPs. Against righties I think Cabrera and possibly Hinske will get a chance to make their cases for platoon roles in LF and 1B respectively in the Spring.
Not sure about Medlen. One of the other bullpen contenders might be more suitable for overuse, while Medlen could be given a chance to start at Gwinnett and be on standby for injuries to our starters. There, maybe Wallace or one of the minor league coaches could help him develop the rest of his repertoire beyond the impressive change-up.
I don't see us giving Glaus the short side of a platoon...
…with Eric Hinske. While Glaus is better against lefties than righties, he still has a career OPS of .822 against righties, which is still better than Hinske’s .804 OPS against righties. While I doubt Cabrera will end up in a straight platoon with Diaz, I am sure he’ll get plenty of playing time spelling Diaz against tough righties and more time spelling McLouth against tough lefties.
hope Glaus will be up to it
His shoulder surgery, not to mention the long layoff, makes me wonder if Glaus, 33, will be fully ready to take on the role envisioned from day one.
He’ll need to get plenty of work at first in the Spring, but Hinske will too, plus they’ll want a long look at Freeman. I’d keep a close eye on those “B” game line-ups this Spring.
Interesting idea on Medlen...
if he is that 6th starter, it does make some sense. You let him start in AAA so his arm is stretched out and can handle the innings. If you have him relieving and say Kawakami goes down in June, it may take a while to get him ready to work 6-7+ innings. I guess that means weighing what we have in Diamond, Redmond, Reyes (does Jojo have options left?), Venters, Cofield, Parr, and Reynoso vs. what we think Medlen can be in the bullpen, and balanced with what we want from Medlen long term either the bullpen or rotation. I think we have enough starting depth now and going forward to see if Medlen can be a strong bullpen option (maybe similar to Scott Shields?).
I may be alone on this....
…but does anyone like the idea of medlen as our 5th starter as opposed to kawakami? this would be completely based on ST, but at some parts of last season Medlen looked wayyy more solid then kawakami. If i remember correctly his bad numbers came a lot when he was coming in in like the 7th/8th and when he came in early and given longer playing time he seemed pretty solid.. if given the chance to start I think he would change his approach, be a lot more comfortable, and get suited into his role.
Just a thought… I’ll probably be crucified for this idea though.
Not crucifying
Sounds pretty smart actually. I was hoping for a Vazquez-Hudson-Lowe-Hanson-Jurrjens rotation, because KK seems like the 7-11 pitcher he was last year. Medlen is no Hanson, but I think he is a better starter than reliever. Now don’t crucify me, I don’t want Jurrjens as the 5th starter, just naming names.
It's ok...
lately i find myself wincing when i see Lowe as our number two starter…. I’d love a Hudson,Hanson,JJ,Lowe,Medlen.
…but thats just me.
Does look good
Medlen in the pen seems like a waste of talent to me.
yeah.
i also liked KK in the pen last year towards the end. His pitches were more controlled and he seemed more prepared than when he started.
Plus I’ll never forget that mets game when he was in the pen doing batting stances of McCann, Mclouth, and Diaz. Classic. He even pretended to take off his glasses and held his hand up to the “umpire” like McCann did so many times.
their production decides the order...
I think people put Hudson and Lowe 1-2 not because they feel they will be the 2 best, but because of Bobby’s leanings towards veterans and the likelihood they start game 1 and game 2 because of that veteran status. Hanson and Jurrjens may well be our 2 best pitchers, but Hudson and Lowe will start the first 2 games of the season if healthy. Now the real 1-2 will be shown when we return from the All Star break.
As for Kawakami/Medlen, I wouldn’t mind opening it up if just because I liked Medlen. But if Kawakami can give a full season of performances like he did last August, he might deserve mention for that 1-2 spot in the rotation. He was very strong at times last year and did more than enough to warrant starting this year.
yes, Cox leans toward a pecking order
but I would like to see it go Hudson, Jurrjens, Hanson, Lowe, KK because of matchups. Lowe has a much better chance to rebuild his game against back of rotation opponents.
KK belongs in the 5 slot because of his seasonal endurance problem. Also, because of missed days, the #5 matches up against #1’s quite often and KK excelled in that role last year.
I just want Kawakami to be moved to the 'pen.
And keep Medlen there as well, to be a second long reliever. If I were Frank Wren, I would sign a cheap lefty for the 5th starter spot(Erik Bedard is a potential bargain). It’s not that KK was bad as a starter last year, but that he was better in relief. We need a guy for the bullpen that can go multiple innings at a time, given the fact that Bobby likes to overwork the ’pen.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
isnt bedard still injured until the summer?
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
Thanks gondeee. I pretty much agree with all of what you said. And I hope that starting the season with Heyard will end up being a great decision. With him batting in a no pressure spot in the order and getting comfortable he will have a great opportunity to produce. Can’t wait to see the kid find his niche in the team.
I don’t even think Heyward is affected by pressure…some people react positive to it, and IMO he could even bat #2…
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Jan 7, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Heyward is not affected by pressure
Pressure is affected by Heyward.
by Bronn on Jan 7, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't always drink beer...
But when he does, he prefers the blood of his enemies.
by FineHamAbounds on Jan 7, 2010 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
God wanted to create the world in 10 days.
Jason Heyward only gave him 6.
I don’t know whether to use Heyward or John Wall for that joke fact.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Heyward does not hit homers
Balls flee over the wall in fear of what he COULD do with that piece of wood…
I think it would be cool to have Diaz bat 9th as a second leadoff man. If he does well in that role, move him to the 1 spot.
Diaz is a mutant
He stole 31 bases in the minors in ’02. I bet we could bat him 10th.
by FineHamAbounds on Jan 7, 2010 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think it would be permanent. If he works out with all different types of pitchers, we can move him to the 1 spot or back to the 8 spot if he is terrible. I feel like McLouth would excel outside of the 1 spot.
Diaz hitting 9th
No, No, Hell No…that would be like batting Heyward 8th, which seems crazy to me. Diaz or Chipper are perfect to follow Heyward’s at bats. Going lefty-righty, or lefty-switch, both with career .300 averages to move Heyward around makes better sense than having a pitcher follow Heyward and end the inning.
I’ve had that feeling for some time too, although it isn’t really supported by any data.
I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.
by VivaLosBravos on Jan 7, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
if this it...I'm scared.....
I think you’re right…..this will be the basic group to leave camp. I hope the trainers are on an incentive program also…there’s a lot of fragile athletes in this bunch.
I’m still bummed that we didn’t come up with any more “pop” in the lineup than this…..would’ve loved to have seen what Dye or Damon could’ve done.
I hope I’m wrong but I see us losing a lot of 5-2, 3-1 games…..
I am not scared for the reason you are.
I don’t think Dye or Damon would have been particularly productive—-Dye because he can’t play defense at all and his bat is slipping, and Damon because he is too costly for what he provides, which wouldn’t be power away from the friendly confines of the new Yankee Stadium.
just ....
doesn’t seem like a lot of offense….and seems like a lot of guys who will get to the beginning of June and head to DL-land……hope I’m wrong!
You act like you’re new to this site.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 7, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
glass is half full
if you’re negative now, how low do you go if things go wrong? It’s time to be optimistic.
You’re trying to convince the wrong guy.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 7, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Too true.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
not negative...
Just had hopes of a big stud bat that was going to carry us while Heyward learns the ropes. The era of Chipper giving us 140 games is over…Glaus could be great…could be a bust….hence the incentive laden contract.
It also wouldn’t surprise me if we “Hanson” Heyward…..keep him on the farm for a few months to keep him cheap for another year.
Here’s a POSITIVE thought….6 weeks to pitchers and catchers…!!!
also sounds fairly realistic
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
Yes, I am scared for a different reason.
The Phillies roster. They are a very good team. We can still catch them, but we have to get some great years from players and some bad years from their players to do it. That and intentionally walking Ryan Howard every time he faces us after July 1st. Still, that isn’t a bad position to be in when the best team in the league is in your division.
I don't think they're any better.
They’re probably actually worse. Polanco’s no better than Feliz was, and Ibanez showed more of who he is toward the end of last season. Outside of Halladay and maaaaaybe Hamels, they have no starting pitching, and their bullpen’s suspect at best. Danys Baez, anyone?
by FineHamAbounds on Jan 7, 2010 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and Ibanez is an awesome fielder...
Just look at that arm!
by FineHamAbounds on Jan 7, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don't particularly think they are much better...
…Halladay is a bit better than Lee (and they didn’t have Lee all year last year) and Hamels did get a bit unlucky last year, but yeah the rest of the rotation has issues. (for all the bad luck Hamels had, Happ had good luck). Still, they were pretty damn good last year. It is the parts of the Phillies roster that haven’t changed that worry me, and make me enjoy the challenge of us taking them down!
Glaus is a proven masher. Damon has never hit more than 24 and it’s possible that the Yankee Band Box had a lot to do with those. Dye finally hit a wall last year and the second half of the season he was god awful. If we are going to make a legitamate run for the postseason I don’t want him breaking down and putting a glaring hole in our line up.
Rosterbation 2010...
it’s just the unsatisfying after-feeling and knowing you did nothing but make a mess over something that was just a fantasy inside your head.
there’s no reason to be ashamed. everybody does it, even if they won’t admit it.
Wren Be Praised.
WWFWD?
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jan 7, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
even girls do it
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
do you like to “do it”?
Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way.
by Scott Coleman on Jan 7, 2010 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
for a few precious seconds, though, it feels pretty real.
I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.
by VivaLosBravos on Jan 7, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the Braves will go into the season expecting to use Cabrera and Hinske as pure bench players. I expect both to compete and play in a platoon role with Diaz. Of course, I am not as bullish on Matt F-ing Diaz as you guys are and I think he is best used in a platoon against LHP.
by CharlotteChop18 on Jan 7, 2010 12:20 PM EST reply actions
Agreed...
though I think they may give Diaz a little more time against RHs to start the season to see how he does. But if Bobby wants to get those two ABs then it will probably be at the expense of Diaz.
Doesn’t Diaz hit righties better than McLouth hit lefties? Perhaps a three way platoon is in order.
And since Heyward will likely not be asked to play 162 games and there may be injury along the way, it may functionally be a four way platoon, with Melkie getting 400+ PAs appearances as the 4th OF.
It's all very possible.
But I don’t think that is a platoon anymore. It’s just an often-used fourth OF.
It's a rotation...
equal rotation would have all 4 starting 121 or 122 games. Some may be closer to 140, another 100, but I’d have no problem with all 4 of those guys starting 100 games (even if it means Schafer is forced to spend all year in AAA). Then again, if Schafer is healthy and good to go by June, that allows you to deal one of them to a team needing an OF. Personally, I wonder if that’d be McLouth (Cabrera costs less and Schafer seems to closer to McLouth-lefty CF that can go 20/20, 30/30-than any of the other 3 OFers)
I think its maybe 50/50 that we see Schafer in June – July or so, and that at some point (maybe after the season) either Nate or Melkie is dealt.
I see Schafer as a dynamic talent who will simply have to be given the chance to succeed at the ML level and that means we’ll over-stocked once he arrives.
Schafer should be trade bait.
And he very well could be. The Grady Sizemore comparisons are wearing off fast, and we need to trade him while he still has value. He has yet to prove he can play well without the help of his old friend named HGH.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
trade bait
Somebody gets traded before long. Whether it’s Schafer, Cabrera or McLouth remains to be seen. With McLouth nearing next years $6.5 mil and $10.5 mil option for 2012, I’d trade his bad back and hamstring before I gave up on Shafer at $400,000.
Schafer has never said the words “I took HGH,” but he has never denied it, either. And there is a lot of evidence that he did take it. He struggled mightily in 2006, then dominated in ‘07. When he got suspended, it wasn’t really that much of a surprise. Then he was awful last year. He may have had a wrist injury, but he shouldn’t have struggled that much. Everyone needs to stop making excuses for him.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Schafer, the Braves’ top prospect and potential future center fielder, denied ever taking HGH or any other performance-enhancing drug for the first time Saturday. He blamed the suspension on “being caught hanging around a bad group of people,” and not speaking up when he was aware that doping was going on around him.
[…]
“So I was taking responsibility for what I did – and I was wrong for being around that. I should’ve never gotten around the situation. I never took a steroid or anything to make me better. But at the same time, I knew what was going on and I hung around those people and I didn’t say anything.”
That argument makes sense if you don’t take into account 2008, believe that steroids help your OBP and BB%, and that playing with a broken wrist would have been helped by steroids. You can’t honestly expect him, anyone, to catch up to inside fastballs with a broken wrist. I openly admit he would’ve struggled a little anyway, but you’re argument is a little ridiculous.
I think you’re discounting the debilitating nature of a wrist injury. Now, I do believe Schafer (and many other professional athletes) can be faulted for trying to gut it and play through the pain. And of course its more than pain because it (consciously or not) alters one’s mechanics at the plate. It would be interesting to compare tape of Schafer before and after the injury.
All of that said, none of us probably have a real grasp of Schafer’s ability. I am not opposed to a trade, but trading him b/c some proclaim him a flop is not the right approach.
by hollerin' brave on Jan 7, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Get over yourself
You pull “facts” out of your ass – “He has yet to prove he can play well without the help of his old friend named HGH” – and write authoritatively about the effects of HGH without presenting any evidence to support your theory. As acie4mvp points out below, he has never admitted using HGH, nor has MLB clearly stated what his suspension was for. What the hell ever happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt or innocent until proven guilty?
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
I quite disagree
I think his current trade value is a fraction of what he could be worth to the Braves.
I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.
by VivaLosBravos on Jan 7, 2010 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Look folks...
…this all assumes everyone stays healthy all summer. It is great to have Schafer in reserve, because if he becomes good to go, that means we have the depth to handle somebody going down.
Diaz hits righties just as good as Melky does, as well
I’m obviously all for giving Diaz the starting job and spelling him only occasionally.
Hisnke vs Right in 149 AB
.242 .349 .430 .779
Diaz vs Right in 235 AB
.255 .349 .400 .749
You are splitting hairs.
Norton 2008 vs. Norton 2009...
because of that, I want the platoon style. Let that above lineup be your regular crew, but that bench can work around for guys once a week. Rest nagging injuries, lessen the risk for guys like Glaus and Chipper, or even Esco, Diaz, and McLouth where playing style increases risk. It lessens injury risk, reduces nagging injuries, and I think makes your bench stronger as they get consistent action to stay sharp. We’ve got Cabrera or Infante that can fill in for McLouth or Heyward vs. a tough lefty, Cabrera or Hinske that can fill in for Diaz vs. a righty. Infante (or Conrad/Thurston/5th bench option) can give a day off to Prado or Esco. Hinske or Infante (or Mitch Jones) can spell Glaus or Chipper. Getting Ross at least 1 start a week could help for a better McCann in September (and hopefully October), and have him sharp if Heap has to spend time on the DL as Cs sometimes do. Especially if Heyward (or Schafer) make the opening day roster, I hope Bobby makes liberal use of his bench, starting 3 or 4 of them at least once a week so they stay sharper and the starters stay fresher.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that replacing Norton with Hinske will gain the Braves 3 or 4 wins by itself.
by CharlotteChop18 on Jan 7, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
haha
.. lately i find myself scrolling down a lot of nonsense comments and catching my eye on your picture and always looking at what you have to say…i always find them either really intelligent or really funny. I’m your biggest fan man…
just thought I’d let you know. I agree with 95% of the things you say.
bit of a mancrush there
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
I'm with CC18 on this one
Norton was up in numerous spots – anecdotally, it seemed like at least once a week – in which a hit could have scored a run. And we all know what usually happened: a strikeout or a walk. Hinske at least put the ball in play more often last year – 58% vs. 47% – and that margin is roughly the difference in their respective batting averages.
Does that help prove my point?...
Hinske was getting several starts per month last year. Norton did not. It’s easier to hit when you have regular plate appearances and more than just coming up cold one time every other game.
Last year Greg Norton has 95 games, 97 plate appearances, 2 starts. Hinske had 93 games, but 224 at bats.
I think just from a PH perspective Hinske is worth 1-2 wins over Norton, but from his ability to fill in an play in a platoon role and get 4 ABs in a game a produce (something Norton could not be called on to do) is worth 2-3 more wins in itself.
by CharlotteChop18 on Jan 7, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Norton....
There were times last year that I would just turn the channel when Norton came up last year……
See 08, Norton was capable of getting spot starts...
Hinske is better, and seems better suited to start games, but I think people are judging Norton on 2009, when he was in a horrible position to produce because of infrequent activity.
Maybe it does...lemme explain
I’m kinda thinking of this as a chicken-n-egg thing. Did Bobby use GN so little because he wasn’t swinging the bat very well, and thus that lack of action perpetuated the problem? Would he have used Greg more if he’d gotten on a hot streak? I’m just seeing Hinske at a better hitter (or ‘swinger’ at least) overall. If he gets field time on Sundays, then so much the better. But yeah… I do think that a couple of wins here and there could result from hits vs. walks in such a situation. I can’t quantify… it’s a feel.
Actually, I totally screwed up the math… used ABs vs. PAs… so Norton put 79% of balls into play, Hinske 88%.
Dang... did it again.
You know what they say about digging holes that you’re standing in…
Norton: 20BB+20K=40 balls not in play. 96 PA’s. 58% balls in play.
Hinske: 27BB+52K=79 balls not in play. 217 PAs. 64% balls in play.
There. Wasn’t worth the effort.
HA – especially not when it comes to Greg F-in Norton.
by CharlotteChop18 on Jan 7, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Walks don’t help you score runs.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 7, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Walks Kill!
Just in case no one else said it…
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
but that crooked number ‘4’ looks awful good.
We need a pool: when is the first granny of 2010 hit (first one since ‘08), and who hits it? [I’ll take Glaus – April 21 against the Phils].
Weird schedule to open the season: Cubs/Giants/Padres/Rockies/Phils/Mets/Cards/Astros
Simple math
Grand Slam = Less pressure on the pitcher…Duh!!
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
The whole thing sounds so Francouerian...
walks don’t help score runs must be the counter argument to grand slams kill rallies.
Looks about right...
and doesn’t look bad. I agree the bench could potentially be strong-which is good as we have had to call upon them alot lately given the health issues we have had .
However, a couple things I would LIKE to see:
1) I know I am in the minority but I would really like to see Heyward go to AAA for 2 mos. For both the developmental reasons as well as the arbitration reason. If he comes up in April..do I think he is going to hurt the team? No-I think he will float. However, I would prefer he goes to AAA and builds some ABs there and then comes up and SWIMS. Not so much for this year…but for 2011, 2012 etc.
2) I REALLY would like to see a little more infield depth. I know Infante can play everywhere…but he is only one person. I also realize that Prado, Hinske, Infante, and Glaus can play both corners so that adds a little more versatility. However, I would like one other guy…either in on the bench…or waiting in Gwinett…that could hold down the SS slot for 2-4 weeks if needed…and contribute SOMETHING offensively. Right now it is Infante and then Hernadez..and I don’t think Diory is going to hit MLB pitching. If we had one more bench candidate who can play SS I think it would create competition for that last slot…and give us needed depth at AAA.
This line up has potential…but it could also be a trainers worst nightmare.
Yeah, one of my biggest fears for this upcoming year is that if Yunel has a bad injury in which he misses a lot of time, it could really hurt us… Hernandez can’t hit AAA pitching, much less MLB. I’m thinking Amadeo Zazueta may be 2 years away from being a MLB player. So, we’re boned if Yunel goes down, considering the past health issues of our other positionals.
Zazueta?
Hernandez can’t hit AAA pitching
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hernan001dio
In 663 AAA ABs, Hernandez is hitting .297, obp of .344, slg .395. I’d say he hits AAA pitching pretty well. Also, if Yunel goes down for an extended period Omar Infante becomes the starter. Diory, among others, wouldn’t get in the mix until both go down. Troy Glaus has some SS experience, maybe he’d be 3rd on the depth chart there.
I totally agree with #1.
I like Heyward. I really do. But I don’t get why people expect him to be an automatic upgrade for the offense. How many 20-year-olds in baseball history actually had above-average production? Maybe A-Rod and Griffey, and a couple more?
People are expecting too much out of Heyward. Again, he is 20 years old. Just 2 years removed from high school. He can’t even drink yet. He is basically a kid. He will likely be a superstar, but that probably won’t happen until he is 24 or 25.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
The reason he is an automatic upgrade for the Braves...
…is that he is essentially replacing Garrett Anderson. Whether he struggles or not when he first hits the majors, he should be better than that. His defense certainly will be.
Gondee I think you are almost correct.
And I agree with your logic on the last bench slot. However, I think Thurston will get it, not Conrad.
Solid team. Captain Obvious thinks health will be our biggest opponent.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
i was worried about finding another picture to replace my creepy javy profile pic…then troy glaus showed up…
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
I cant figure out if Javy is trying to seduce me, or if he’s thinking about where to bury my body. Maybe both.
Wren Be Praised.
WWFWD?
by !Vive la Francoeur! on Jan 7, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
Good looking roster
Heyward really changes the look of things. Diaz deserves his chance. I can see Thurston over Conrad on the bench, and Heyward moving to #2 spot later in the season. Medlen will do whatever the Braves want him to, he’s said starting or pen are both fine with him. We have plenty of right-handed relievers to allow Medlen to go to Gwinnett for awhile. You have to figure a pitcher or two will have an injury at some point this year. Glaus looks ready to go, wonder if Chipper and McCann have invited him to their batting cage? This is looking like a fun team to watch.
Heyward.....
I guess it’s not unheard of to jump from AA to the bigs but…..again, I hope I’m wrong.
It happens all the time.
And Heyward did actually play for a week (plus the playoffs) in AAA last year.
2nd inning
Glaus-McCann-Escobar-Heyward-Diaz……we should score a lot of runs with that part of the lineup.
Absolutely
If he’s on base, he has a great chance to get moved around.
I still think of all that lineup,...
he’d be best suited for the leadoff role. He threatened .400 slapping the ball around, and would likely load up on the 2Bs if so.
Chipper
Escobar
McLouth
Glaus
McCann
Diaz
Heyward
Prado
Let's face it.
Chipper even in a bad year posts a .400 OBP, and most year he has a good slugging percentage as well. Most of the time, he is the best guy for every slot. That isn’t terribly surprising.
If Chip's leadin off...
I’d rather see
Chip
Diaz
Escobar
Glaus
McCann
McLouth
Heyward
Prado
Just sayin’.
what if we put Clint Sammons as a 3rd catcher
which would let David Ross be a great power asset off the bench? he’s too good of a hitter to only play once a week.
Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way.
by Scott Coleman on Jan 7, 2010 1:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Sammons
If we are healthy, it’s a good plan. If somebody goes down, we need different depth on the bench. With Gwinnett so close, it’s possible. Isn’t there a limit on how many times a player can go back and forth to the minors?
No.
Options are by the year, so going back and forth doesn’t matter. However, barring an injury, you have to stay for ten days each way.
strike that
I think you have to stay down for at least ten days, not up.
Not enough versatility off the bench...
especially playing the odds of injuries, adding a second fielder makes more sense. Ross, Sammons, and McCann are all Cs and only C. I don’t think either of the 3 is a Eli Marrero that can backup C and help elsewhere in the field. We don’t really need Ross as a PH with Hinske and Infante.
We had a versatile back up catcher....
Bryan Pena…but we traded him to KC for a bag of balls. He would be a good candidate to fill out the roster. Garko was a C coming into the majors and has played 1B and LF. There may be some other guys out there like a Robbie Hammock who can come in and fill a couple rolls…including 3rd catcher. However, I think that the additional depth on the bench allows us to go into a game not really needing Ross’ bat as a PH. Guys that I would think would be woth looking at for the final roster spot would be:
Nick Green
Hairston JR
Amezaga
…maybe even Khalil Greene….though I doubt he would be realistic.
Why platoon in LF?
2009, Melky and Diaz vs. RHP.
Melky: 747 OPS
Diaz: .749 OPS
I guess Melky is better defensively, but frankly, it’s not by a great deal. All a platoon gains you is Diaz on the bench, available to PH against lefties-which will almost certainly result in a pitching change, since other teams will decide that we don’t believe Diaz can hit righties.
I'll tell you what I am most excited about
Are more competent bats off the bench. Remember last year around the 7th or 8th every time we needed a pinch hit and Greg Norton ambled out? Rally killer.
I think this will be a pleasent change of pace. Also even the threat of power of Glaus changes the complexion of the lineup alot.
It doesn’t have flashy bat some of us fantasized of… but in my opinion, that bat is Heyward, right now. I call this a playoff team with some good health luck
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Jan 7, 2010 2:20 PM EST reply actions
I’m excited to think what kinda flashy stats we might see Heyward put up over the course of 600 PAs.
600 PA's
It’s tough to not over-expect from Heyward. I posted it before, but I took 3 buddies to a Lookouts-M Braves game in Chatt. Built up Heyward for 2 days, they had never heard of him. By the end of the 1st inning he had a triple, an RBI, a run scored and had thrown a runner out at the plate from right field. They were on board with Heyward real quick.
this
My experience was the M Braves vs. Huntsville Stars. Oddly enough, JH struck out looking in the first inning…. and I going, hmmmm..
I think that was the only time they got him out that night (2B, HR, walk).
He's only 20 years old.
He really needs to start the season in AAA. I don’t care how mature and talented Heyward is, because I’ve heard that many times before with guys like Alex Gordon, Andy Marte, Chris Burke, JR Towles, Delmon Young(okay maybe not mature but the scouts drooled over him), etc.
I’m not saying Heyward will be a bust, but we’ve heard these things about a lot of guys before, and some of them just never figured things out.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Andruw
If Heyward starts in AAA, fine, better baseball minds than me will make that decision. I’ve seen him a grand total of once. But, if Wren and Cox think he’s ready, I’m for it. Andruw Jones was hitting homeruns in the World Series as a 19 yeae old. The only reason I see to hold him back is financial. That and a starting outfield of Diaz, McLouth, Cabrera, somebody for 4th, doesn’t inspire me.
The biggest thing I noticed was how different he looked in preparing for pitches as compared to every other hitter there (FF included, btw). He just looked like a ML hitter is his entire approach, demeanor, stance… everybody else at that level kinda looks like a live nerve cell – everything in motion.
I did notice the trainer working to stretch out his legs – probably hamstrings. Ran pretty well that night (1st of aug., I think). But yeah, he’s a filled out kid.
agree
He looks like a man among boys. Good point about his plate appearance, looks like he knows what he wants to do, rather than hoping things go ok.
people forget
how smart Heyward is.
Both of his parents are Dartmouth grads. that’s no easy place (plus, i bet they can drive in the snow…not very common in Georgia) to get a degree from.
i think we have a Strawberry-talent with Maddux-mind on our hands. AND if that’s the case, the world better watch teh %$&^ out.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 7, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Strawberry talent
Long time ago, Strawberry had gone 0 for 6 thru about 15 innings, came up in the 16th and hit a walk off homerun. Interviewed after the game he said, “I was just hanging around, waiting to do something great”….what a great line.
Hey, easy now...
Maddux-like minds are hard to come by. I heard he calculated his pitch locations based on special relativity.
by FineHamAbounds on Jan 7, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Diaz has no buisness playing every day.
He and Hinske should platoon in left until Heyward gets called up. Then move Melky from right to left.
Also, I think Melky should lead off so we could drop McLouth in the order and take advantage of his power.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Agree on McLouth’s power being better lower in the order. But disagree on Diaz. As willing as most have been to put Dye, Damon or some other defensive buffoon in left field, I’ll take Diaz’ questionable defense and .300 career avg just about everyday.
Diaz's career average is misleading.
I’m not sure of his exact splits, but he can only hit lefties well. Last year, he hit an ungodly .412 against lefties, but just .255 against righties. He is extremely valuable as a platoon guy or pinch hitter, but he shouldn’t be an everyday player.
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.
Average doesn’t really matter that much. He had a .255/.349/.400 line and his sOPS+ was 108, meaning he was above average (the average is 100) relative to the league’s split.
I'll take that slash line
as part of a split.
It would really be an injustice to not let Matt earn a starting job. He was our best hitter last year, and 2/3 of his PAs were against righties. He hits righties better than Yunel hits lefties…and Yunel is a righty.
I almost went insane once repeating the word “trophy”
I mix your Melk with my cocoa puffs, Melky Melky cocoa puffs.
by VivaLosBravos on Jan 8, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Glaus health is key and Heyward needs to make the team.
Like the lineup and with Glaus in the middle of the order our team and lineup is very solid. Glaus moving to first will put less of a strain on his shoulder, and really could help save his career by moving to 1B full time.
If Heyward makes the team out of Spring Training then we are a very strong club, however I am not crazy about Melky starting full time or Hinske, but I do love the fact that we have both of them on our bench b/c if it all shakes down as the above states then we are a strong team top to bottom.
Go Braves.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jan 7, 2010 3:38 PM EST reply actions
Lineup:
L/R/S/R/L/R/L/R
B-e-a-utiful. It’ll be nice forcing oposing managers to make a decision on his LOOGYs and when to use them. Last year, we would get dominated whenever a strong lefty would come in. Now? If they bring him in to face BMac, they’ll have to get him out of there for Esco. If they bring a LOOGY in to get Heyward out, they’ll have to get him out since MattyD is coming up.
I like it.
IN FRANK WREN I TRUST.
Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way.
DIAZ
If Diaz goes into a platooning role again this season I think that it would be a huge mistake. The guy is a great hitter as he has shown by his performance last season. I really hope that he has this opportunity to become a full time guy.
I agree.
He hit righties well enough last year (almost exactly as well as Melky did) that he should at least get the majority of LF starts. Sit him against Roys Halladay or Oswalt, but it makes no sense to sit him against John Maine just because he throws from the right side. He has a pronounced platoon split, yes, but against righties he’s “average,” while against lefties he’s “Manny Ramirez.” I’ll take that.
by FineHamAbounds on Jan 7, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
A few thoughts . . .
With the new Braves roster there is much diversity. We now have TWO new options for when Chipper has a hangnail. Both Glaus and Hinske have some power. The outfield can remain fresh with rotating players when one needs a day of rest. This also gives us depth on the bench. As for SS, Infante can play there if Escobar needs a day of rest or if he ticks Bobby off with not thinking.
Rotation: Hanson is our number two starter or JJ. Both showed last season pressure is something they enjoy. KK could actually be our fourth as long as he is facing the Yankees or Halladay. Lowe as our fifth? Well we know they won’t do that because of how much money they are paying him, but he being our fourth will benefit him like it did Vazquez last season.
Bullpen: I really like our options here. Have always loved Wags and feel the rest of the crew can toe the line.
I know that our crew does not shake the boots of opposing pitchers as the Yankees when Ruth and Gehrig was playing, but I swear if they run a little more with McLouth, Melky, and others could really make some other teams worry.
Cannot wait for the season to start!
I like it Gondee
But like I said before there will be several position battles in the spring.
1. The battle for the final bench spot. Mitch Jones, Joe Thurston, Brent Clevlen, Brooks Conrad and Matt Young will all be battling for the final bench spot.
2. The bullpen will also have 2 spots up for grab. 1 spot will be for Scott Proctor but not until the end of May, beginning of June. So 2 spots until then between several candidates. Jesse Chavez, Michael Dunn, Jo-Jo Reyes, Juan Abreu, Mariano Gomez, James Parr, Fransisco Bueno, Todd Redmond, Lee Hyde and maybe more so it’s not a given that Dunn and Chavez make the club.
by Jay212033 on Jan 7, 2010 7:21 PM EST via mobile reply actions
roster
looks ok to me provided Chip and Glaus stay healthy. Good depth and
versatility. I think the FO traded for Melky who they’ve been after for
several years to play, be it a platoon in LF or otherwise.
I see Hinske as coming off the bench and spelling Chip, Glaus and
some OF.
regarding the pen I like Dunn’s stuff big time. I also expect Kimbrel who
has great upside to be the first relief guy to get the call if he’s showing
control at Gwinett. KK whether we like is going to start in the rotation and will
have to pitch his way to the pen.
Conrad is not a lock. FO likes Thurston and will give him ST reps to audition.
agree with all of that
KK will start, I hope he is durable enough. Seems like 150-160 innings might be his limit, hope I’m wrong. I really think Melky was on our radar to make McLouth tradeable. We can keep him if Diaz or Schafer don’t work out, but he hasn’t been as advertized so far. I think you’re right about Thurston too, Conrad was awesome from 7/3-7/21, but he was mighty weak in Sept and Oct.
What's wrong with KK?
He had a very good season for us. Yeah, he struggled his two months in a brand new league and country, but after that, he was a fantastic #5 starter.
Most teams would drool over having a #5 starting pitcher with an ERA of 3.86
Let Jason Heyward start the season in RF, and get the hell out of his way.
by Scott Coleman on Jan 7, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
KK
My only issue with him is durability. He showed he can pitch, but he hasn’t shown he can pitch a full MLB season. His shoulder was a question last year, no idea if it is still a problem, and he’s no spring chicken. He’s our man, I hope he does great. But I’d be seriously considering sending Medlen to AAA to prepare to be a starter, because I’m not sure KK will be able to handle 30-34 starts.
What about Thurston ?
I thought we got Thurston to be our super utility player and help Infante out; plus Conrad can only play 2B and nothing else. So why in the world would the guy put Conrad as our last bench bat and not Thurston.
Doesn’t Conrad still have opitions ?
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Jan 7, 2010 10:27 PM EST reply actions
I could see Glaus and McCann
flipping spots in the order based on match-ups. Meaning, McCann is our 4th hitter most days, against right handed starters.
Of course, I’m thinking McCann makes it back to his 2008 form, so it doesn’t bother me because then he’ll outperform Glaus.
"Of course, I’m thinking McCann makes it back to his 2008 form, so it doesn’t bother me because then he’ll outperform Glaus."
This. I don’t understand why people equate positions in the batting order with specific roles in the offense. Keep it simple – the higher you are in the order, the more plate appearances you get. And you want your best hitters to get the most PAs. If McCann is our second-best hitter, why do so many people want him moved down in the order? Because he’s a C, and he should have more off-days than the average starter? So does Chipper, but no one wants him hitting sixth (as I’ve seen some advocate on here).
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
batting order
This thread or another, it was suggested leading off with Chipper, but the rest of the order didn’t look that good. How about……
3b-Chipper-s
2b-Prado/Diaz-r
rf-Heyward/McCann-l
1b-Glaus-r
c-McCann/Heyward-l
ss-Escobar-r
cf-McLouth-l
lf-Diaz/Prado-r
Lots of options, doubt Chipper would give up the #3 spot, but it does solve some issues.
That was my lineup, so I'll put it again, with reasoning to spur debate...
[hey, rosterbation is dead now, i’ve got to fantasize somehow and if it can’t be GM then it’ll be manager by damn it]
3B (S)-Chipper—this starts it off. Maximizes his # of at bats, gets our best on base man on to start things off, and his lack of speed isn’t an issue with his ability to hit for power. Going back to two years ago when he was focusing on contact over power in that .400 run, he was amazing at spraying the ball all over the place and health permitting could gun for a career high or better in 2Bs. When he misses time, if Infante is the backup 3B of Hinske you simply erase Larry’s name and pencil him in at 3rd and leading off. If it’s Hinske, you can always bring McLouth back to the top by default, or Diaz/Cabrera/Prado/Schafer/someone else who earned it with their play.
SS®-Escobar—gets probably our two best obp guys on at the top, and they have the power between them to still drive in/score plenty of runs
Now, other than the 4 spot, I’d think it can fluctuate depending on who’s hot, and who Bobby’s playing.
CF (L)-McLouth—I put him here to start a R/L/R/L balance. Get those two on in front of him, and I like his slugging here. Plus say the first two get out, you can get McLouth on, he has the speed to steal and you still have someone in scoring position for Glaus/McCann/etc. You can slide Diaz, Heyward, McCann, Glaus, or whoevers the hot hand here when Cabrera spells him. Maybe let Diaz (being the sub is vs a lefty) or Melky lead off and put Chipper back 3rd on those games.
1B®-Glaus—If healthy and putting up his career norms, this is a no-brainer. Of course, gotta stay healthy. When Hinske gets spot duty here, he has the power to hit in the middle of the order so you don’t have to alter it too much. But then, Glaus has historically played everyday unless he’s hurt so Hinske might have to steal his at bats from others like the corner OF.
C (L)-McCann—again, if healthy it’s an easy call. Of course, gotta adjust when Ross gets one of his 30-35 starts (avg just over 1 per week).
LF®-Diaz—again, continuing with the L/R/L/R. As you see above, even considering great health team wide, this adjusts depending on how Bobby wants to play it. Is Melky in for him or McLouth (or Heyward)? Diaz could go up, or down, according to the others in the lineup and if he demands more regular time.
RF (L)-Heyward—IF he makes the club out of spring (note the big IF), I think this makes the most sense on opening day. You’ve got plenty of guys to two guys who get on at a pretty good rate in front of him, and continue the the balance making it S/R/L/R/L/R/L/R. There’s not much pressure this low in the order, but Prado (or another) can provide good support behind him. He can move up as his bat warrants, IF/when he makes the club. When Cabrera rotates in, Bobby can hit him 8th (and slide the others up).
2B®-Prado—If everyone is healthy and hitting their best, would he not be the 8th best hitter? He’d be great bringing up the rear with his ability to drive in stragglers remaining on base, or just get on to work the P’s spot through at the end of innings to work it around, and is a more than capable bat to keep opposing Ps from feeding Heyward junk like he might see if he had the P behind him. Plus if someone sits and Bobby tinkers, Prado can easily rise from the 8th spot and do well 2nd or elsewhere letting the subs fill in here. Also, the R/L balance thing.
But that 8 as your base—
S-Chipper
R-Escobar
L-McLouth
R-Glaus
L-McCann
R-Diaz
L-Heyward
R-Prado
then moving guys around accordingly as they get hot or cold, need days off, and matchups dictate. To be honest, the only ones I’d think were etched in stone, if healthy of course, would be Chipper 1 and Glaus 4 (and then McCann 5 except when Ross is getting his weekly start).
extra paragraph...
to make the short subject even longer.
As mentioned Ross weekly for McCann, then sprinkle in Cabrera vs. lefties (for McLouth or Heyward), or with Hinske in LF to keep them sharp and Diaz fresh (especially on pitchers he matches up poorly with), Hinske and Infante fill in on the IF although when healthy you’d likely see those first 4, then a 5th guy who can add something extra defensively or as a pinch runner, and that’s you’re bench and guys platooning to some extent with McLouth, McCann, Diaz, Heyward, and Prado.
more edits...
the® is just an R between (), like L or R, but it makes it a trademark thingy.
3B (S)-Chipper— … if Infante is the backup 3Bofover Hinske you simply erase Larry’s name and pencil him in at 3rd and leading off
RF (L)-Heyward—IF he makes the club out of spring (note the big IF), I think this makes the most sense on opening day. You’ve gotplenty of guys totwo guys who get on at a pretty good rate in front of him, and continue the the balance making it S/R/L/R/L/R/L/R.
2B®-Prado— … or just get on to work the P’s spot throughat the end of innings to work it aroundand working back to the top of the order,
Escobar
You make a good point /argument for Escobar at the #2 spot, I just think he is the definition of a #6, and it doesn’t interupt the l/r/l/r part. The lineup I took as lacking had Diaz, Prado, Escobar, Glaus, all righties in a row, and McCann, McLouth and Heyward, all lefties, back to back. I doubt if Chipper would give up the #3 spot, but I like your idea of OB% getting things started. Leadoff is the biggest issue we have left, McLouth doesn’t seem to like it, or fit particularly well, and his power is definitely effected. I’m probably over-optimistic on Heyward, I do realize he will need a year or two to become the superman we want, but I shudder when someone suggests him batting 8th or playing left field.
Prado
If Prado is our 8th best hitter, I’m a really happy guy. I think he may be better than McLouth, batting average only. I really like this team, the people bit**ing seem blind to me. We don’t have a Puljos or AGon, but we have 12 really solid players, a great rotation and solid (at the least) pen.
Just my $0.02
Your first hitter should be your best non-power hitter. I wouldn’t hit Chipper first, becuase more than 20% of his PA’s are guaranteed to have no one on base. I would go with Escobar first, then Chipper, McCann, Glaus, McLouth, Diaz, Prado, RF. Anyways, we really ought to get away from a spot in the batting order being a “role”, and have your best hitters get the most PA’s.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
$0.02 more
Truth be told, Chipper will never be leadoff, but if Heyward is our right field, I hope he’s not batting 8th. We don’t have a standard leadoff hitter, I was just looking at possibilities, and tying 2 parts of the thread together. Diaz, Prado, McLouth in that order would be my vote for leadoff in the real world. Where in the order Chipper belongs is beyond me, but I’m not sure he’s a #3 hitter at 38 yrs old.
right
I wasn’t clear, the lineup I took issue with was a reply to your lineup. I like your lineup, but question Escobar 2nd instead of 6th, but I said you made a good argument for him batting 2nd.
Awesome Glaus photo.
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