Glavine says release from Braves all about the money
I wonder if sports stars know that they do themselves a disservice by complaining about multi-million dollar bonuses and contracts in the middle of a recession... or even during prosperous times. No one likes a whiner. Recently released Atlanta Braves pitcher Tom Glavine lashed out at the team this morning on a local radio station (as reported by the AJC):
"Absolutely, they were hoping I got hurt, no question in my mind," Glavine said. "They figured I would either get hurt, and that would be the end of it, or I would pitch so poorly that they figured I was a standup person and would say, ‘no.'"
It's never a pleasant thing when an organization has to cut ties with a player, especially a veteran player who is relatively popular with the fans. But the Braves weren't "hoping" Glavine would get hurt, that's just ludicrous. The Braves weren't hoping Glavine would get hurt back in April when they expexted him to come out of extended spring training and join the starting rotation, and they weren't hoping for it this time. "No question in his mind" that the front office was hoping he would get hurt?!? That really makes Tom Glavine sound silly, not to mention petty (which is not surprising if he's taking cues from John Smoltz, and the way he handled his departure from the organization).
I lose a little respect for Glavine with that statement.
He goes on to say this:
Glavine said his release from the team on Wednesday " could have been handled a whole lot better than it was.
"Looking at the whole situation, and taking into account the amount of time I've spent in this city and the amount of time I've spent in baseball, there's no question in my mind it could have been handled better."
Glavine said Braves officials sometimes "don't look at players and take into account what they've done on the field, what they've done off the field, what they've meant to the organization, what they've meant to the city, and say, ‘wait, these guys deserve to be treated a little bit differently than this business model we have.'"
I wonder what he expects the team to do? They got all of their talent evaluators and decision makers together in one room, including Bobby Cox, and the decision to release Glavine based solely on performance was unanimous. They used caution and checked with all the appropriate people before they made what they knew was going to be a difficult decision. They handled it the best they could. Again, it's never a pleasant thing when an organization chooses to cut ties with a veteran player, but sometimes it has to be done.
Glavine's reasoning for why he was released -- money. This was something I speculated could have played into the decision, and maybe it did, but that's a legitimate concern for an organization and one that has to be weighed with the kind of return they're going to get for their investment. Here are Glavine's comments on that:
He said his release was "totally financially-driven, whether it's they didn't want to pay me the million dollars that I would have been due to go out there and pitch and pitch one pitch, one inning, one game and get hurt - and I'm very understanding that that's a possibility."
Glavine said that the more likely scenario involved Wednesday's trade that brought Pittsburgh outfielder Nate McLouth to the Braves.
"In order for them to pull this deal off, they had to get some money somewhere, and they got the money from releasing me," he said.
Absolutely. And they would probably make that same decision the same way if they had it to do over. The choice was to spend at least $1 million, and possibly more, on an aging pitcher coming off arm trouble when reports were coming in that he couldn't get his velocity above the 70's mph range, or trade for a huge upgrade to your offense and bring up a young pitcher that will cost you less than half as much. I think the choice here is pretty obvious. Made even more obvious when you consider that the young pitcher being brought up is the best Braves pitching prospect in a decade.
I wonder how Glavine thinks the Braves felt (or the fans) when he left the team in 2003 for the Mets and less than a million more in base salary. Was that decision by Glavine about money? You're damn right it was, so Glav has no room to complain about this decision.
Glavine's upset -- I get it -- but he should realize that the fans turned against Smoltz when he acted like he acted, and perhaps a more gracious exit would be a better last impression.
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Comments
I don’t understand the furor being generated here. Braves scouts determined that Glavine couldn’t contribute to the team as much as the other available options could’ve and released him. That wasn’t the best thing for Tom Glavine’s wallet, but it was the right baseball decision. Save money, get a better pitcher, give Glavine a chance to catch on with someone else who doesn’t have better options, etc. Glavine should see this as a win-win because there are plenty of teams out there who need a serviceable #5 starter and who will pay him if he’s actually that kind of guy still.
by 17843 on Jun 5, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wren is going around telling everyone who will listen that he isn’t good enough to get ML hitters out. Do you really not understand why he’s pissed?
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough ...
but what is FW supposed to say?
Reporter: How will you address all of the dropped passes?
Mike Smith: I don’t think that we were as sharp as we have been catching the football. It’s something that is very fixable. It’s VERY fixable.
by FrankyWren on Jun 5, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“We’re really excited about the development that we’ve seen from prospects Tommy Hanson and Kris Medlen over the last 2 months, along with Tim Hudson’s recovery, ultimately we felt it was in the best long-term interests of the club to not delay their development by leaving them in AAA any longer.”
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Mr. Lennox:
Why would you leave them in AAA all season while JoJo Reyes was struggling for the Braves in the major league rotation? Why wouldn’t you give Glavine at least one start to prove he can pitch as well as he has before?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should be quite obvious that, as neither Hanson or Medlen had pitched at AAA before, they were being given time to see how they adjusted to that level, this is why Tom was signed in the first place, as we were not comfortable with them making the jump directly from AA.
And Glavine obviously wouldn’t be pitching for “one start”, which just goes back to not wanting to arrest the development of our young starters. This is move that is not just for now, but for the future as well.
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we’ve seen Glavine be successful before? If this team is interested in competing for the division, why would you use a pair of unknown commodities who have never seen this level before? Neither has pitched in the majors before, and if “adjusting to a new level” is a concern to you, then couldn’t this hurt the team?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“No, we evaluated the situation and felt this was the best move for the franchise, especially with Tim Hudson returning from the DL in a few months.”
Seriously. there are ways to drop a HOF player without having to go to the press and embarssing the guy by saying that he can’t get ML hitters out. If you’re the General Manager of a MLB franchise, then, bluntly put, that should be in your skill set.
Bluntly put, he shouldn’t have been signed in the first place, the move to cut him should’ve gone down earlier in the week, rather than off this last start.
Actually, Wren should’ve gone to Glavine and offered him a spot in the rotation at AAA (where his knowledge of pitching, at the least, could help the young pitchers there develop) where he would serve as insurance in case of an injury (and could be guaranteed, at the least, a call-up in September if he stayed healthy.
Then, if Glavine refuses, you can say, at the least, that you offered him a spot in AAA, but he wanted a chance to pitch in the majors and you wish him in the best.
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know a lot about it...
…but I’m pretty sure offering a spot in AAA, as opposed to giving him the option to retire gracefully, would be an even bigger slap in the face.
by sddbaker on Jun 5, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Retire gracefully” is another way of saying, “we want to cut you, but don’t want the bad PR from it, so be a sport and help us out, even though you get nothing out of the deal.”
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing...
…except some dignity…which he is sadly lacking at the moment.
by sddbaker on Jun 5, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because if you don’t bow down and do what Frank Wren says, he runs to the press and tells them what a shitty ballplayer you are.
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, they do deserve to know.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
Do you think the other GMs are just going to take Wren at his word? the signing wasn’t unnecessary. He probably would have been better than Reyes between his original return date (mid-late April) and now, but HE got hurt. Wren did not hurt him. And Wren did give him the chance to stay in the minors. Glavine wouldn’t do it because that "wasn’t his plan.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would I care about other GMs? I’m talking about how Wren is handling this from a PR perspective, and from a PR perspective, he’s coming off like a dick.
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why this comment?
If you’re the General Manager of a MLB franchise, then, bluntly put, that should be in your skill set.
So telling the truth about that part of it=being a dick? Geez.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about that comment? I’m talking about Frank Wren’s handling this situation in the press. I never say a single thing about other GMs “taking him at his word”.
And yes, this is a situation where the truth is obviously something that most people would find embarrassing to have said about them, telling it to the national press where his friends, family, and peers will all hear it, is indeed a dick move.
by Lennox on Jun 5, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really can’t believe you’re the only person who is looking at it this way. I know Tommy can’t be mad about the measly bonus he’d have earned when he made a start for them (let’s be serious, he made OVER 128 million in his career, that last million is nothing). He’s mad because he wants to pitch for a major league team, and he went through a lot of effort to try and come back and contribute for this team. Keep in mind, he pitched for 20 years without ever taking a stint on the DL, and part of that was a refusal to miss time. Then, at the very end of his rehab, the organization is being very disingenuous about the entire situation.
The team signed him as a stop-gap until Hanson would be ready to take over, and as an insurance against injuries, but then he goes and gets hurt himself. When you’ve got a future HOF player and one of the few sports icons Atlanta has, they needed to keep him in the loop to prevent this type of parting. “Tom, Hanson is really tearing up AAA, and there’s a chance, given your rehab timetable, he’ll be end up taking your spot in the rotation.” How hard is that?
by Bronn on Jun 5, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess ...
I mean, I certainly understand where you’re coming from. But here’s my thinking: Medlen is sort of irrelevant (because the Braves aren’t looking for him to occupy a spot in the rotation right now). With the rumors re: the Braves eying Penny, it seems like they aren’t all that concerned w/ having a surplus of starters (or, in the alternative, they wouldn’t mind putting one of KK or Penny in the bullpen). By making it about rotation spots, they might have saved Glavine from some degree of embarrassment, but it isn’t like the team that he signs w/ (if he signs w/ someone else) won’t check his velocity.
I don’t know, I feel like this has become about semantics, which I don’t really get. But again, I do get where you/Glav are coming from.
Reporter: How will you address all of the dropped passes?
Mike Smith: I don’t think that we were as sharp as we have been catching the football. It’s something that is very fixable. It’s VERY fixable.
by FrankyWren on Jun 5, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see where Wren’s comments would irritate Glavine. One thing I fault Wren for is his penchant to be a little too forthcoming about some things, like revealing our offseason needs. But still, Glavine should be better than he is, not sink to the level that he’s criticizing Wren for being on.
After all, Glavine should know that business is just business.
by tchoup on Jun 5, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Were our offseason needs a secret?
Reporter: How will you address all of the dropped passes?
Mike Smith: I don’t think that we were as sharp as we have been catching the football. It’s something that is very fixable. It’s VERY fixable.
by FrankyWren on Jun 5, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes...
We needed a new RF. Nobody in the front office is gonna let that one out of the bag.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not since Wren announced them in the media
I’m sure anyone who knows anything about the game would have recognized what we needed this offseason, but to come out and say “We need 2 starting pitchers and a strong-hitting left fielder” sorta cuts into your bargaining power. And, if any of those needs go unfulfilled, the GM will have a little egg to wipe off his face. See, Exhibit “A,” Garret Anderson.
You could say Wren might be a little to…er..“frank”…
by tchoup on Jun 5, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Cuts into your bargaining power?"
How? That was obvious to anybody who knows anything about baseball that looked at our roster.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why oh why...
can’t these guys be classy and gracious, even if they do think they got screwed? (Which I don’t agree is the case here, or with Smoltz.) So now the Braves are moneygrubbers, and the only reason they didn’t put him on the mound for at least one game was to save a million dollars? So, would Tommy have given them one “free game” just to prove he still had something left in the tank? Of course not. This just comes off as him whining because the Braves didn’t want to pay him a million bucks, then tell him to go away.
by sddbaker on Jun 5, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, this is getting a bit ridiculous. I have no doubt in my mind the Braves made this decision based on money and talent, but should he and Smoltz really be upset about the Braves making a financial decision in the organization’s favor? Let’s think about this, Smoltz leaves this offseason for the BoSox for a couple extra million, where’s his loyalty? Glavine left us in 2003 for more money to go to our rival, the Mets. Do they really have any room to criticise the Braves for making a financial decision? No, the only player on our team that could get mad about the team being disloyal is Chipper. If Glavine and Smoltz are gonna complain about money, they’re just being selfish whining spoiled brats and need to be taught a lesson.
by BravesRaleigh on Jun 5, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’ve added a bit to the original story about him departing for the Mets… fuel to the fire. I also added a picture of him at 790 this morning. His agent must have called the AP photo guys — they’re really making this a media blitz. I guess that puts Gregg Clifton back on the most hated list of agents in the Braves’ front office.
by gondeee on Jun 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess who said this:
He is the future of this organization …They need to play. Giving me my release is sort of a class act by them. To give me a chance to hook up with another team is a big-time class act."
I was never a fan of the guy, but when he was shown the door, and those were his parting words, I couldn’t not respect the guy. Hint: he was once a teammate of Tom Glavine.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Jun 5, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Paul Lo Duca
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good one
Lo Duca, when cut by the Nationals. Left with his head high, and despite not actually finding another job afterward, nobody could really call him a whiner. Kind of a dirty old man, sure, but not a whiner.
But sorry, there is no prize for this one.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Jun 5, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But sorry, there is no prize for this one.
DAMN YOU SCUBA STEVE!
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who we he talking about when he said “he is the future of this organization”?
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 5, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Flores. He might be exacerbating a little bit, but he was a far better option at catcher than Lo Duca was.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Jun 5, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wonder what he thought when we bitched about him going to the Mets for money.
Two way street there Tommy.
And to answer my own question: he didn’t give a screaming eagle shit.
Official MCM Hater!
Summer 2009 Troll Call: Bedazzlers(2), Ratbirds, Squeelers(2), Rosencopters, Cardinals
by gramsey712 on Jun 5, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, hit the nail on the head with that comment. Glad gondee pointed it out in his piece as well. It works both ways Tom and your quickly burning the small bridge you had rebuilt in coming back to Atlanta.
by jwrocks on Jun 5, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, exactly. When he left for the Mets, it was all about money. They only get pissed when it works against them.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jun 5, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect response.
Blow, Tommy. You’re done. Let the last remnants of your legacy be turning your back on your team for a rival’s money, contributing heavily to one of their collapses, returning home and collecting 8mil to pitch like shit then not pitch at all, and then finally bitching like a little girl when you’re deemed an overpriced inferior to the next generation. Thanks for the good memories from ‘02 back Tom, but it’s time to move on… again.
by l0stnumber on Jun 5, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I am really getting sick of early forty-something multi-millionaires who have spent their lives being adored by millions of people resort to nothing but whining. Shut up, take your money and go play golf or something. Love what he did when he did it, but the Braves don’t need him. Too bad, so sad.
"The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw."
by WienerDog on Jun 5, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 way street, very well put
Proof that when posting while high or intoxicated can lead to some really funny posts
by bravesrbaseball on Jun 5, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that Glavine is a confident guy, but this is ridiculous. He did some amazing things for this team a long time ago and he went to another team. That’s how baseball works. Why didn’t he just come out and say “YOU CAN’T TREAT ME THIS WAY!!! I’M TOM GLAVINE!!!” If he wants so much respect, go elsewhere. We love what you did for us Tom but we’re moving on. Quit ya bitchin.
by MTSU11 on Jun 5, 2009 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
price and value
Glavine knows better than anyone that it’s about the price:value relationship, and that neither ever stands alone.
Yes, the timing was related to the next stage of his payment schedule. But if the Braves felt he would contribute $1.5m worth of effective pitching for thirty days with a good shot of being worth $1.5 million more after that, they certainly would have re-upped him. After all, keeping TH down on the farm for a couple of more months could easily pay us back that and more in deferred arbitration costs down the line. Glavine’s own salary was also partially deferred, too, another incentive for the Braves to keep him if he could offer suffiicient value to justify the investment.
The money the Braves wasted was the million up front which he will keep. You could call that risk capital, but in retrospect it was a risk not worth taking, especially after the meagre return on their investment in Glavine last season.
I for one approve of the Braves making an unsentimental choice about this player. Yes, he gave us some great games and years. He is also among the most responsible for the excessive costs of player salaries in the last decade which have driven up the price of tickets for fans, and made it more difficult for the Braves to compete with teams from larger cities.
by JimK on Jun 5, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Glavine didn't get a million btw
He would of gotten it if he had made it onto the Braves roster.
by l0stnumber on Jun 5, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I believe he got a millon to sign
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings.
~Earl Wilson
by BeantownVol on Jun 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to find it
But if he did get a signing bonus you’re right. I know it was 1mil to make the roster, 1.5 mil to be on the roster 30 days, and another 1.5 mil after 90 days.
by l0stnumber on Jun 5, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. He got a million guaranteed with escalating bonuses.
by BullManUGA on Jun 5, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“With his new contract, Glavine is expected to earn a guarantee of $1 million and have the opportunity to earn an additional $3.5 million through incentives. A large portion of the money earned through incentives can be deferred for up to five years.”
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_145104.asp (bonuses not specified within)
Since you’re both right I’m even more annoyed by this! He got a million dollars to go through rehab!
by l0stnumber on Jun 5, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$1 mil 1 day on 25-man
1 day on 25-man roster=+ $1 mil ($2 mil total)
30 days on 25-man roster=$1.25 mil ($3.25 mil total)
90 days on 25-man roster=$1.25 mil ($4.5 mil total)
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the Braves option
They could have paid whatever they were going to owe him over a 5 year period.
That’s:
$200,000 a year if he didn’t make it 30 days (or 6 starts)
$450,000 a year if he made it past that
$700,000 if he makes it to the end of the season, in which case we would have to assume he was pitching well and this would have been money well spent
That doesn’t seem bad to me. How can an organization that spends (wastes) $100 million on a 3rd or 4th place .500 team (which is frankly what we ARE) complain over this triffle financial liability for the next five years? Especially when the counter argument is to let a HOFer who has given so much to this city leave with his head high?
by DCP916 on Jun 5, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is easy
because they are trying to NOT be a 3rd or 4th place .500 team. They want better pitchers and better hitters. Dumping Glavine allows them to get both.
If they kept Glavine, then they would be striving for 3rd or 4th place and a .500 record.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 5, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those deferral details were never confirmed.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just have a problem with timing by the front office. I think they could have released him earlier in the season if they were going to release him instead of the time when he was slated to join the rotation. I agree that it was the right decision and that he’s being a little snot about it, but I think it definitely could’ve been handled better on the FO’s part.
by soup du jour on Jun 5, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It was GLAVINE'S shoulder issue...
that set him back and prevented him from taking Reyes’ rotation spot a month ago. Not the Braves’.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One defense for Glavine/Smoltz
I agree 100% with the community. G/S left the Braves for greener pastures (i.e. more money) so they can’t be upset when the Braves put them out to pasture (i.e. to save money/better performance).
I do have one defense for Glavine and Smoltz. Baseball players get paid millions upon millions of dollars because they bring in billions of dollars in revenue. It’s a freemarket economic fact that workers should get paid for what they bring in. In my opinion, the Braves got the better of the deals for Glavine and Smoltz. Even though Smoltz and Glavine got paid tens of millions, I wager that they brought in way more money than any other Braves players over their careers through ticket sales, jersey sales, tv contracts, additional post season revenue, etc. How many of us bought tickets to see Rico Brogna? How many of us own a Raul Mondesi jersey? Even players that helped the Braves win (and made us, the fans feel better) were paid with money brought in by Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, and the Joneses. I agree that the decision was the right one. But before we tear Glavine too big a new one, let’s not forget how much the Braves have profitted off them.
by ghost of tom thobe on Jun 5, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I had one wish right now, I would wish that Glavine signs with the Phillies and gives up 8ER in 3IP during his first start (his next starts are the same). Whats with former Brave’s pitchers being such huge bitches?
Guy #1: Damn, these oysters are going to make us horny as hell...
Girl #2: Oh yeah, I forgot oysters are hermaphrodites.
by bwellnjonesco on Jun 5, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice read. Thanks gondeee
It’s all for the better. And with McLovin, that’s like a goddamn shot in the arm. That kid is hella-good. i.e. I think we’ve gotten the edge back, baby.
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 5, 2009 1:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hella-good
+10 for the Cali term, would’ve been +100 if you would have said hecka-good.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
out in St Louis, i woudlnt consider it a Cali term
by traphicg on Jun 5, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmmmmmm…I thought we were the originators, oh well!
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares where it originated
It’s lame regardless.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Jun 5, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-1, you are lame regardless.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
You sound like Gwen Stefani wannabes.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Jun 5, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever. I know you are just jealous you aren’t in California. You have no Rubio’s and no In n’ Out, I know what it is like there, I have seen ATL.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ Infinity
hella and hecka should be banned and those who utter it should be executed.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Jun 5, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BOOO! You are upset you live in California Purgatory.
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't live in Bakersfield
How dare you!
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Jun 6, 2009 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh please! Of course he would say it was money
If he came out declaring that it was based on his performance, then he would never pitch another ML inning again. Even now, his chances of playing again are bleak
I'm a lefty, maybe Lou should give me a shot for a position in the bullpen!!
by Chanman25 on Jun 5, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
People all too often ignore what people say because they have to rather than what they mean.
In the same way, it wasn’t in Wren’s interest to say that we cut him because of the money. If another team knows we can’t add on any payroll, it’ll be that much harder to get them to take on some of a high-dollar guy’s salary without having to sweeten the deal more later on.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glavine really needs to shut his mouth. I mean its been said 20 times already but he left us for the Mets, and got his 300th win with those bitches. Now he is mad at the Braves organization for not wanting to spend another 1 mil on him when our offense needed desperate help. The Braves are very classy they could have just kept his old sorry ass in the minors, and not allowed him to pitch in the majors this year. But instead they gave him options. Its sad to see it end this way.
"Baseball Before Hoes"
by That a boy on Jun 5, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Glavine should to go to boston
that way him and smoltzy can cry on eachothers shoulders and have a nice circle jerk to make eachother feel better.
“the decison was totally financially driven”
hey, so was your decision when you burned the Braves in 2003, so shut the f*ck up. You’ve mad $128 million in your career and you complain about a million?
Ask ANY braves fan, they would rather have Nasty Nate and Hanson over you any day of the week. Tommy, PLEASE just shut up.
"Jason Heyward might be the best offensive prospect i've seen in fifteen years. His game is solid. I would trade any of the current players we have on our 25 man roster for Heyward. He's that good." - NL Scout.
by mvhsbball on Jun 5, 2009 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
$130 now...
but who’s counting?
Wait…I guess he is.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom Line
It was partly motivated due to the lack of money that the Braves had left in the budget to be able to add a Bat to improve the ball club. Yes they where able to cut glavines 3.5M of potential roster bonuses to have him get replaced my our TOP pitching prospect making much less and than take the rest to pay for NM salary this year to make the trade with pirates to work out $$ wise.
Glavine is absolutely right about it being driven by money and the Braves could have been more honest about that to glavine and how this was handled. There no doubt this team is better now than it was 48 hrs ago but just keeping Glavine in the loop about everything would seem to be respectable on the FO part. Now I don’t agree with the analysis that the FO wanted or wished that glavine would either get hurt or be ineffective in rehab so that glavine would just retire and make the situation easier to deal with in let him go.
I feel that it could have been handled better by the FO though I would still do the same thing all over again with releasing glavine to make the NM deal work to improve the team.
by Hanson-Ace on Jun 5, 2009 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If that's what they wanted all along...
they wouldn’t have signed him in the first place.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux was always my favorite of the big 3, this just cements it even more. Kudos to FW for making the tough decisions to get this team to contend.
If Dunn walks 30 fewer times, he'll drive in 15 more runs. This is thanks to the scientifically proven formula: RBI = (this is nonsense) (I made it all up).
Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
by TradeAndruw on Jun 5, 2009 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maddux for Life. More than a Man, Less than a God....you know, like Hercules, or somethin....
"The future is no place to place your better days." - Dave Matthews ~ RIP Roi
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Jun 5, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In his mind, Glavine said, "the way the conversations went down, the only way that I was not going to pitch in Atlanta on June 7 was if I got hurt again."
…DIDN’T he get hurt again?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The sense of entitlement from Smoltz and Glavine is ridiculous. Certainly has stained the memories I have of the two.
by Smoltz's Beard on Jun 5, 2009 2:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Big Three...
No, not of the mid 90’s Braves rotation. I’m talking about the big three of great washed up bitchy players.
Smoltz, Glavine and Brett Favre
Presenting Great Moments in bigjoe's posting history!!!
"Thanks for mentioning my penis, he appreciates it"-5/23/09
"I’m drunk and gay."-5/23/09
"I am a boring dork."-6/3/09
by Rhyno18 on Jun 5, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Glavine crying a river or three, at least drought isn’t in the near future.
hindsight is 20-13 just like Ted William actual vision- ken tremendous
by heapofoatmeal on Jun 5, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so what’s the deal, now MLB TradeRumors is saying we (Braves) are interested in Brad Penny??? WTF?
by jwrocks on Jun 5, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm, why????
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
free-market economy
doesn’t exactly work here, though.
sure, they bring in revenue dollars but at what cost? you wouldn’t hire a 95 year old wolfgang puck to actually cook at your restaurant. especially if he had poisoned two people at his last restaurant.
that’s effectively what you’re saying. sure, slapping “wolfgang puck, executive chef” on the outside of the building brings in people initially. but it brings downt he quality of your product (using the hyperbole that he is old and poisoned people at his last place).
glavine/smoltz were likely a serious downgrade in the quality of the product. in an industry that is nearly entirely product/result oriented. giving glavine 5 starts to prove he’s not terrible could result in 2-3 games that the new Tom Terrific (hanson) likely could have won.
I, for one, don’t want to trade sentimentality for wins. (read: please replace FYF already)
by MLT on Jun 5, 2009 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's revisit this topic in September
When the Braves have a 70-80 record, are nowhere close to the Phillies or Mets in the standings and there are <10,000 fans in the seats watching Chipper sit on the bench nursing a sore muscle, while Bobby Cox picks his nose and a team with no chemistry or fundamentals continues to waste real money – $100 million worth.
I think then there may be a slightly different perspective on how Glavine was treated and how this organization is operating as a whole.
Newsflash: for those who want to remind Glavine that it’s not 1995 anymore, that goes ditto for the Braves management and coaching.
by DCP916 on Jun 5, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HOLY TROLLY BATMAN
People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by mvandonsel on Jun 5, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Newsflash: It’s not 2008 anymore, Philly fan
or
Newsflash: It’s not 2000 anymore, Mets fan
Are those accurate as well, DCP, for whatever fan base you belong to?
"These two teams are constantly going at each other verbally. You know, win with class, lose with class. Just keep your mouth shut and go play your game."--Chipper Jones, commenting on the Muts/Phaillies verbal girl fight.
by King Size on Jun 5, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So how would bringing Glavine up for five shitty starts before he got cut anyway change any of that?
Seems to me it’d just make for 2.25% more waste than even you suggest.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So they should have kept Glavine
So when we are 70-80 in September, are nowhere close to the Phillies or Mets in the standings and there are <10,000 fans in the seats watching Chipper sit on the bench nursing a sore muscle, while Bobby Cox picks his nose and a team with no chemistry or fundamentals continues to waste real money — $100 million worth,
we can sit back and be happy because we DID NOT release the guy who turned tail and bailed on us to go to a divison rival for more money and can’t throw harder than me?
Makes PERFECT sense.
Seriously, though, explain your last comment…it’s not 1995 anymore. That is exactly why Glavine got the boot, right?
What the hell does any of that mean?
Official MCM Hater!
Summer 2009 Troll Call: Bedazzlers(2), Ratbirds, Squeelers(2), Rosencopters, Cardinals
by gramsey712 on Jun 5, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, though, explain your last comment…it’s not 1995 anymore. That is exactly why Glavine got the boot, right?
Pretty much. We all know Glavine is not his former CYA self anymore. Nobody is/was expecting him to go out and pitch 150 innings of sub-3.00 ERA ball. Can he match what a young rookie or struggling Japanese import will give us? Who knows. He thought so. Management didn’t. At the very least he could offer something that neither of those have – wisdom. The type of wisdom that comes from from throwing 75,000 pitches at this level, when you never had ace stuff to begin with. Hell, maybe he could have even told Francoeur to stop swinging at the first pitch every time since apparently neither Pendleton, Cox or Chipper have gotten that message across.
The quote is a reference to the fact that while certain players (due to the inescapable reality of age) are not as talented as they were in the ’90s, maybe we need to start admitting that the organization has not been making the same brilliant moves it made in the ’90s and that, despite a high payroll, a losing record over our past 600 games (!!!) is maybe a pretty telling sign of that?
And, no, I’m not a Mets or Phillies fan. I’m a Braves fan that’s willing to speak my mind when I think the team has a problem – whether that’s a performance issue on the field, or a PR problem like telling a HOF pitcher who started with this organization back in 1984, won more games than any other Atlanta pitcher, won two Cy Youngs and our only World Series, that he needs to clean out his minor league locker and go home.
I hope we win. I hope we make the postseason. I hope Hanson turns into one of those rare, special players that make the quick, smooth transition from dominating minor league hitters to dominating major league hitters. I hope McLouth plays like the guy we saw in the first 50 games of last year, and not the .250/.330/.450 guy he has been in every other game of his career (although even that would be an improvement for us).
But frankly, I don’t see it. I can’t see this team competing for the division or the wildcard. Given the brutal schedule we face right now, we could be out of it by the 4th of July. If I’m wrong, I will gladly come back and eat my words and say mea culpa and let everyone here pummel me to a pulp. But if I’m right, well, then I guess Glavine can say, hey you can’t blame me, and then maybe we can have a rational discussion about how this organization is being run in all aspects.
by DCP916 on Jun 5, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Struggling Japanese import?"
Perhaps you could have made that comment if Glavine had been healthy in late April or early May,, but Kawakami ain’t doing no struggling at this point.
Wisdom is not worth $3.5 mil and a roster spot on a major league team.
The “high payroll” comment, too, is ridiculous. We’re paying more than we did in the 90s in terms of raw money, but we haven’t even ranked in the top 10 in payroll in how many years?
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't understand how having Tommy Glavine taking up a roster spot is going to help this team win.
He can’t hit.
Official MCM Hater!
Summer 2009 Troll Call: Bedazzlers(2), Ratbirds, Squeelers(2), Rosencopters, Cardinals
by gramsey712 on Jun 6, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares what Smoltz thinks?
What does Mike Hampton think?
by ATLDuck on Jun 5, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ouch, my arm hurts?
Official MCM Hater!
Summer 2009 Troll Call: Bedazzlers(2), Ratbirds, Squeelers(2), Rosencopters, Cardinals
by gramsey712 on Jun 6, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it hilarious that a guy that was a union rep for so long and was A LEADING VOICE in the strike in ’94 is bitching about the team wanting to save money.
FUCK YOU TOM GLAVINE
by yondaime4 on Jun 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The owners were completely out of line in the 1994 baseball strike, and Glavine was a player rep who wouldn’t stand for it.
1) The owners demanded a salary cap.
2) The Players’ Union was against it (usually when you have a disagreement, you attempt to bargain/negotiate)
3) The owners took it on their own to amend the ML agreement and give to the commissioner (a former OWNER) complete power in negotiations.
4) In June, the Billionaire’s Association (pardon me, the owners) refused to pay a measley $7.8 million owed to player’s benefit and pension plans.
Basically, owners were trying to restructure baseball in a way that most benefited them, regardless of the players’ agreement. The Players’ Association took extreme exception to that. Glavine provided a couple of quotes that were really ill-conceived, but it doesn’t change that the players ultimately knew that baseball was driven by the players instead of the teams.
You can bitch about millionaire players talking about their finances, but the multi-billionaires who sign their checks were the real bad guys here. Even though it would be nice to have a salary cap at this point (go home Yankees), the failure to act in good faith with the Players’ Association was very unethical.
by Bronn on Jun 5, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the lack of #1 leaves baseball far behind the NFL and NBA today in terms of national populatirty.
Remember, kids...don't ever let facts get in the way of your argument.
by MichaelProcton on Jun 5, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The most true statement about the condition of baseball in this country that you’re going to find.
"At least he didn’t nail the bitchy fat girl from Hell's Kitchen."
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Jun 6, 2009 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be nice, because the revenue sharing aspect is also pretty shitty in baseball as well. But the owners were trying to avoid negotiating for it, even though the competitive balance of the league is ultimately in the best interests of baseball.
And then, in an attempt to leverage their negotiating power, they refused to pay a rather pithy sum owed to retired players. Like I said, people think players are spoiled millionaires, but the owners have 50 times as much money and can be just petty about money.
by Bronn on Jun 6, 2009 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the money belongs to the owners anyway, so what does it matter what they want to spend it on?
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The owners would have nothing without the players
How can you not see that? Why do people not understand that owners can’t make any money unless someone is building their widgets or servicing their customers? It’s a symbiotic relationship between the two. One side’s interests shouldn’t have more weight than the other’s.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Jun 6, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is wrong with an owner of a company wanting what is best for them and their company?
Look at the auto-unions and how they have destroyed and bankrupted the auto-industry in this country.
Unions have their good qualities, but the negatives far outweigh the positives.
"Actually, Justin was right."
by bigjoe on May 15, 2009 9:04 AM PDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 6, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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