The Moves are Not Over for the Braves
by gondeee on Dec 27, 2009 10:17 PM EST
in Braves Trade News
Email
PrintThis evening we get a recap of the past week's events from AJC reporter David O'Brien, and with the last paragraph of his column he speculates about some moves that the Braves may make in the coming weeks:
The Braves probably have at least $7 million left in their budget, maybe closer to $9 million (they won’t say exactly) and are still considering adding another hitter, possibly a left fielder (Xavier Nady?) who can also play first base. Or maybe a second baseman (slugger Dan Uggla?), if they decide Martin Prado could still be in the lineup regularly at a mix of positions. The Braves could use Cabrera or another outfielder in a trade for Uggla or another slugger.
We keep hearing the Dan Uggla rumors, and O'Brien is one of those who won't let it die. Certainly another bat seems like it would be in the cards, what with the extra money we're supposed to have. It would also be nice to have some insurance and depth against injuries. I don't want to kick Martin Prado out of his rightfully earned second base job, but putting him back on the bench in a utility role and replacing him with Dan Uggla might add a lot more power to the lineup and a lot more depth to the club, as Prado could fill in at first, second, and third.
Of course, maybe we're just seeing this as perceived power with regards to Uggla. Yes, he can hit 30 homeruns, but Prado actually had a higher slugging percentage than Uggla last year, .464 to .459. This also begs the question that if the Braves wanted more power at second why didn't they just keep Kelly Johnson? Or was he too erratic for their liking. Another knock on Uggla is his strikeouts. He strikes out at a rate (22.7%) twice that of Martin Prado (11.6%).
So while that move may be good for our depth and homerun hitting ability, I'm not a big supporter of removing Prado from the lineup only to add an expensive second baseman with two more arbitration years. Prado is a terrific number-2 hitter in the lineup who excels at moving folks over and doing the small things that a player in that position generally should do.
Hopefully the Braves will look for other more creative moves to bolster the team more before the season starts. I would not be too keen on a move to acquire Uggla.
225 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
*Keeps mouth shut about 2B.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 10:25 PM EST reply actions
I was about to say something about that. Isn’t “rightfully earned” a little premature? I’m not convinced his offensive stats weren’t a fluke and his defense is… well, it’s better than Uggla, I suppose…
lets not talk about 2B
it wont do us any good.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 27, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think they didn’t try to keep KJ because they felt he couldn’t play effectively anywhere but at 2B.
And they probably figured he wanted to be an everyday guy… which I think is probably the best role for him.
by get swoll yunel on Dec 27, 2009 10:30 PM EST reply actions
May not necessarily be uggla.
I have to agree, prado is the prototype ball player, doing the little things right and etc.
Agree and disagree
I certainly don’t condone a deal for Uggla at 2b, especially at the expense of Prado moving to the bench (even though I am a KJ supporter). Having said that, NO WAY IN HELL should Prado supplant Escobar as our number 2 hitter. At best he should hit 7th or 8th.
Prado is a terrific number-2 hitter in the lineup who excels at moving folks over and doing the small things that a player in that position generally should do.
This describes Escobar perfectly. Prado just doesn’t fit that bill IMO.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
Escobar has too much pop for the 2 hole, and thrives in the 5-6 spot.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Dude is also prone to hit into DPs like mfka.
by get swoll yunel on Dec 27, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
You do know that Prado’s IsoSLG to this point is higher than Escobar’s, right? And Escobar has a higher OBP than Prado. To me that shows that Escobar is better suited to the two-hole.
by bravesfan91 on Dec 27, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Escobar tends to hit ground balls – not what you want out of the 2 hole.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
And gets on base at a higher rate. With your skepticism of Prado, I’d think you’d want him away from the top of the order.
by bravesfan91 on Dec 27, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I would prefer he be the #8 hitter, but not at the expense of moving Escobar out of his productive spot.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
With the payroll being more clearly defined now though, we’re going to add another bat with what we have left. Surely you’d like to see McLouth-Escobar-Jones-Glaus-McCann-RH Bat-Heyward-Prado. I know that’s what I’d prefer to see.
by bravesfan91 on Dec 27, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly?
I’d prefer to see this:
1. Diaz
2. Chipper
3. Escobar
4. Glaus
5. McCann
6. McLouth
7. RF (not Heyward)
8. Prado
I know that isn’t going to happen, but that is what I would prefer.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I mean, it’s no Rembrandt, but…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 28, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Diaz as an effective everyday leadoff hitter is something...
I’ll have to see to believe.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
How is it such a big stretch
to go from “Best Braves’ hitter in 2009” to “Effective leadoff man.” Seriously, he’s coming off of a year where he OBPed .390.
He also wasn't an everyday player last year...
nor hitting at the top of the order. Splitting time with French, Church and Anderson, getting 92 starts hitting mostly 7th or 8th is different than 150+ starts hitting first. It is quite a stretch in my mind to say that Diaz can be an effective, everyday leadoff hitter when he has never had a season with 400 at bats, had 3 walks in 43 games in 2008, and a grand total of 11 starts in that role throughout his career (although his numbers are good there, and leading off an inning).
I’m not saying he can’t do it, but Matt Diaz has never been an everyday player, and doesn’t exactly fit the mold of your typical leadoff hitter, especially considering his free swinging style. Because of such, I have my doubts.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
The man hit everywhere in the line-up last year
Literally: 1-9. You can’t say he was hitting “mostly 7th or 8th” because those constitute less than half of his PAs. He batted a ton in the 6th spot, and spent another 104 PAs between first and fifth.
And while 425 PAs isn’t a true “full” season, it’s a pretty decent sample size. And in 1403 career PAs, he’s posted a .358 OBP, which is what we need from our leadoff hitter. It seems unlikely that he’s completely going to fall off a cliff because he’s getting regular playing time-from all accounts, it’s harder to be consistent when you’re jostled around the line-up a lot.
And how much has he benefitted from being able to have his starts picked and chosen?
Look at those platoon splits. Pretty ugly.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
Plus
Your standards might be too high if you think his .255/.349/.400 against RHPs is ugly. That’s basically what Nate McLouth did as a Brave: .257/.354/.419
McLouth is at least an average defensive CF.
Diaz is at best an average offensive corner OF. And I’m not sure where those numbers come from, but I see a .276/.334/.387 line against righties for his career.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 29, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, you can say he hit mostly 7th,...
most of his at bats and starts were in the 7 hole so he was in the 7 spot more than anywhere else, hence the word “mostly”. Now, he hit 6th more than 8th, but add in 5th, 6th, and 8th to 7th, and the VAST majority of his at bats came in the lower half of the order, as did the VAST majority of his starts. Dismiss me all you’d like, but I see a HUGE difference from starting a little more than 1/2 the season, with the vast majority of those starts hitting in the bottom half of the order to batting leadoff everyday.
Except for the part...
…about RF (not Heyward). Not sure how pretty that is as it would be a two-month stop gap option at most. And Chipper hitting second seems questionable; he prefers to hit third, and at this point in his career, we might as well let him.
I know about Chipper and hitting 3rd…hence, the “I know this won’t happen” bit.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 28, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. Too bad Bobby’ll never move Chip out of the 3-hole, cause I want Esco there pretty badly. Batting McLouth lower there is a much better use of his pop cause he’s definitely not the ideal leadoff man. It seems harsh to put Prado that low even though he had a nice season last year, but where else would he fit? That’s more of a testament to our lineup’s flexibility, I guess. Guys can fit in multiple spots in the lineup.
Why does Escobar fit so well in the third spot?
Wouldn’t you want more power or just a better hitter there? I know he was great with RISP last year, but generally that is not a repeatable stat and will regress to the norm.
He may not be a 30 homer man, but he’s blossomed into a .300 hitter with 15-20 homer ability who is a reliable RBI man. And you put him in the 3-hole with a good cleanup man behind him, you just might make him even better, the way Tex did to Chipper. Not to the same degree maybe, but I could see him becoming a 100+ RBI man under those circumstances.
Plus, just look at Escobar’s career numbers in the various batting spots. He does better lower in the lineup
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
We want the person with more “pop” to be lower down in the order so we can have runners on base.
He has shown that likes hitting down in the order. (see his good BA with RISO)
Also, Escobar is more of a free swinger, whereas, Prado can work the count a bit better than that.
Prado has a higher IsoSLG than Escobar does and Escobar has a higher OBP than Prado. Its the opposite of what you’ve said that is true.
by bravesfan91 on Dec 27, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
He is relying on Escobar's numbers with RISP...
…which is not a particularly repeatable stat. I am sure all the people who bank on it will wonder what is happening when Escobar has the year where he is great with nobody on and struggles with RISP.
Perhaps it's not repeatable
But FanGraphs does track “Clutch,” as in, which players elevate themselves in high leverage situations. It compares hitters against themselves to see which players elevate themselves in the “clutch.”
Yunel is one of the ten players with the highest “Clutch” rating over the past three years. While the jury is still out on whether this is repeatable, it’s interesting to see something very subjective corroborated by hard statistical data.
Looking at RISP numbers for longer careers...
…to avoid small sample size issues, I am not finding much in the way of outliers. Looking at B-R, I looked for hitters with over ten years in the majors and a tOPS over 120 for RISP. (tOPS is basically how much the situation contributed to your OPS+. As far as I can tell, a tOPS of 100 means a player did exactly the same in that split as overall, making a tOPS over 120 a showing that the player performed more than 20% better than normal in that split. For example, Diaz who mashes lefties, has a tOPS of 124 against lefties as opposed to a tOPS of 78 against righties. The numbers don’t add up to 100 there because there is weighting due to number of plate appearances.)
Anyway, here are some of the players who are recent enough to have numbers for this with over 10 years in the bigs, along with their tOPS for RISP:
Chipper: RISP tOPS: 102
Derek Jeter: 97 (so much for his clutchness, lol)
Cal Ripken: 110
Andre Dawson: 104
Andruw Jones: 95
Gary Sheffield: 116
Carlos Beltran: 115
Luis Castillo: 95
Carlos Delgado: 110
Miguel Tejada: 105
Todd Helton: 116
etc.
That’s all the time I have to look people up.
In comparison, after playing just two and a half seasons, Escobar has a RISP tOPS of 136. Maybe he is more clutch than all of the players listed above. On the other hand, I think it is more likely that it is just statistical noise, and the more he plays, the more it will revert to the mean.
I hope your conclusion is wrong...
if just because reverting to the mean for Esco means he struggles there going forward to balance out the last two years.
It would only take three to four seasons...
…of hitting with RISP the same as his other at bats for it to normalize. His number is very high right now because his 2009 was ridiculous with RISP. His other years were not particularly abnormal.
Offense rolled when prado was in 2 hole and escobar hitting lower in lineup.
by SidKotchman on Dec 27, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
Which also coincided with KJ being out of the lineup and getting rid of Kotchman and Francoeur. Prado in the two-hole and offensive success weren’t directly linked to each other. It was dropping the dead weight out of the lineup.
by bravesfan91 on Dec 27, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
When Johnson was in the lineup over Prado post-DL, the team had a better record.
Don’t pretend Prado was some savior.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not
If you had read what I said, it was the overall dropping of dead weight, not Prado specifically.
by bravesfan91 on Dec 28, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
yessir
whether it be for Uggla (who would move Prado to 1B in case of an injury) or any other player, we NEED a solid backup plan for Troy Glaus. He wasnt always healthy before the shoulder surgery, and he’s not getting any younger.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 27, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Uggla...
is wayyyyyy too expensive to be a backup/insurance policy, if we acquire him he’ll start at second base, a move I don’t like at all because it relegates Prado to the bench just as he’s adjusting to becoming an everyday player.
Also Dan Uggla is a proven butcher at second, while I stlll believe that Martin will improve due to playing on an everyday basis, so that would mean Dan Uggla playing the Outfield which I dont want to see either.
Lastly trading with a division opponent is usually a no-no (unless your trying to pawn off players who you’ve come to despise) so I cringe at the possibility of us taking a chance on Uggla and it not working out, while at the same time strengthening Marlins farm system.
You misconstrue my intent. Obviously, Uggla would be a middle of the lineup bat if acquired by the Braves.
My point was the Braves have a weakness in run-producing power bats that Glaus was signed to address. If Glaus has health issues, it would be great to have another new bat with 30 HR potential who could bat cleanup
Uggla is NOT a "proven butcher."
Two of his four seasons have been better than average.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 29, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
But Uggla will cost us players.
I would prefer a depth option like Garko who doesn’t.
THIS...
Garko, Nady, Hinske, and several others on the market would be cheaper deals, less length, probably better defenders, and not cost us players.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
I agree except...
…I don’t think length of a deal is an issue with Uggla. He is arbitration eligible but still under team control (arb 2 this year I think), so it would only be a one-year deal. More expensive than Garko, Nady, or Hinske—-my guess would be about $7 million, which is probably more than we have—-and the Marlins aren’t going to want salary back in return.
but with those guys, they are FAs next year...
with Uggla, you are forced into a possible $10m deal in his last arb year, or non-tendering him and getting nothing in return after giving up a package for him. Perhaps if this was his last arb year, and we could be looking at a Class B guy next year, but otherwise, I’m not wanting Uggla.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
I sure wish we coulda signed Mike Cameron...
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
Fantasy teaser scenario
1. Jason Bay is already doing an ‘uh-oh’ in having tried to play hardball with the Red Sox. It may be that nobody is actually going after him right now. I suspect his agent is practicing groveling to see if the RSox could possibly consider any reasonable contract for him.
2. If the Sox bite (Bay is a lot younger, after all), then that means Cameron has to go… somewhere… and the Braves would be the logical partner.
3. For the bravos to do that, a Melky flip would be reasonable, perhaps with a third team (Cubs) involved, as they need a budget OF. That might make the Atl budget work for Cameron. Do that and the team is set.
They can’t trade a FA signee until like June, right?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 28, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
You are correct. But since I’m suggesting a fantasy, let’s go ahead and assume that Cameron gives his permission — which would not be an unreasonable precursor to any such deal (in the same vein as Soriano).
I don't think that permission matters.
In an arbitration acceptor like Soriano, he can give permission, but I don’t think a free agent signee can.
Actually yeah
I’m trying not to get too hopeful he wins a spot, but with those monster numbers he puts up in the high minors I am a bit curious to see if he turns into a Russell Branyan and contributes more than we expect when finally given a shot.
In 15 at bats! Stop saying this like it’s accurate. He strikes out in 27% of his at bats for his 10 year minor league career and you’re harping on the week he playing in the Majors. Anyone, absolutely anyone can strike out in 46% of 15 at bats.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
This is true...
…but then again, 27% strikeout rate against AAA pitching isn’t exactly anything to write home about either.
Maybe not, but 35 HRs is. He’s hit as high as 39. That’s nothing to sneeze at, especially when done in the high minors. I know it doesn’t translate directly when a call-up happens, but there’s a chance he could hit 25-30 Hrs as a big league man, and i f he can manage a .250+ AVG and enough walks to keep from drawing Frenchy comparisons, I think any team would be happy to find a place for him at the major league minimum. Maybe not leadoff…
Did anyone do the math? If he had 600 ABs this year, he would have hit 54 home runs at the rate he was hitting them out. And as others have said, it’s not like he hasn’t done this before—in the same league for the last 3 years—and in a different league in AA.
Kind odd why someone like Scott Thorman was given the job at 1B a few years ago and completely flopped, and his numbers never came close to this kind of production.
Why do some guys get the chance and others don’t? What do some guys have to do, hit 90 home runs in one season to get looked at??
I have to figure that …
1. He started out kinda old
2. He was never considered a top prospect in the first place
3. He was blocked in the Yankees system
4. By the time he made it to the Dodgers he was already 29 so he was probably labeled, and the huge PCL numbers could be interpreted as extremely skewed because of the league.
5. He may have been injured in 2007 & 2008 given the low number of ABs (but he still hit 35 home runs in 385 ABs, nearly identical to his 2009 campaign).
But the way I always look at these things… You still have to HIT THE BALL.
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
Oh and…
6. Strikes out too much…
:-)
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
Would anyone take Mark Reynolds and his 44 homeruns, along with is ridiculous 223 strikeouts?
Man, it even hurts just to say that… It’s just unreal.
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
Yeah,...
but wouldn’t pencil him into the 25 man roster until he wins the spot.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
I keep saying this:
The guy looks like he could be Jack Cust v2.0, as in a huge power guy who doesn’t get a real major league shot until later in career because he “strikes out too much,” nevermind his OPS.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 28, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Can he play the field?
Jack Cust v1.0 would be pretty useless for us because we don’t have a DH slot. Sure Jones could be that guy, we just don’t know. I have no idea about his defense, however. If it is reasonable, he could get a shot here or somewhere else if injuries strike.
He’s a decent fielder. He’s played mostly RF in his career, he has a good arm, nothing amazing, but good, and move well. He plays 1B because he can and it doesn’t hurt to be versatile. He probably doesn’t have the raw power the Cust has but he’s a much much better fielder.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Well, that helps.
My one other question is whether all of his big power #’s came in the PCL. There seem to be several guys who have done that recently and not gotten a chance at the major league level (MacPherson, Wood, etc.). I wonder if that could be part of it. Of course, if he rakes at the start of the season at Gwinnett, we could put that theory to bed.
The PCL is nuts for hitters, but in 2 years with Columbus in the IL, which I think heavily favors pitchers, he hit 27 and 21 homers. He just kind of had a down year that second year and while I doubt he’d hit 35 homers for Gwinnett, I don’t think the power is a fluke. These guys that get to play year after year in AAA become better as they get older.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
The Glaus signing would seem to relegate MJones to the bench at best, but I’d still call this the most intriguing signing in the off-season (in the category of “I would love to see the scouting report”). So even if he becomes the 25th guy on the roster, I’d be curious to see him come up to bat in the 9th inning of games where we used to see Greg Norton.
If he turns out to be an impact bat off the bench, that would be awesome.
And let the record reflect that I advocated for him on a rosterbation thread 2 or 3 months ago.
Record reflected:
fandave advocated for Mitch Jones on a rosterbation thread in September or October.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 29, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
He was never going to be more than a bench bat at first.
And who knows what happens from there. I would agree with the decision—-we don’t want to sign a career minor leaguer as our primary first baseman. On the other hand, he can’t be worse than Norton in Norton’s role.
Sure he could.
Norton got on base at a league-average clip. Given his usage, there are plenty of players who couldn’t have managed that.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 29, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
I'd have no problem with Mitch taking Norton's bench spot.
That kind of power threat off the bench is quite a luxury. Most bench bats are utility IFs or speedy 4th/5th OFs.
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 29, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Norton got on base at an above-league average clip – nearly .400, IIRC.
He lead the MLB in PH OBP. too bad most of that was walks and only in a few ABs.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 29, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, he had an OBP of .330.
Unfortunately, OBP is only part of a hitter’s job. His slugging percentage was a microscopic .171. It is unimaginable that Jones would be that low, or any non pitcher or catcher would, really. I would guess that Jones would have a significantly higher OPS than Norton’s 2009 total of .501 and OPS+ of 39. 39. Ouch.
Unimaginable?
It strikes me that it was unimaginable that Norton would have done it. But when you never get to hit, it’s hard to stay in a rhythm.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Jan 2, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
So the Muts officially signed Kelvim Escobar
Is he their new #2 starter? Or does Mike Pelfrey beat him out?
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
he’s in their pen, they’re hoping he does what they wanted putz to do
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
Or what K-Rod does for a fraction of the price.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 27, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
haha, I was trying to make a joke at the Mets…not necessarily caring where he pitched, but thanks for the info
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 27, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nothing like signing a guy who’s barely pitched in 3 years to be your setup guy. Gotta love Omar.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
i hear he likes latino players.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 28, 2009 12:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
In all the years the AAA team was here in Norfolk I can’t even tell you the number of times I heard a guy say “I need to change my last name to Ramirez or Martinez.” Heck, I think Heath Bell probably said it 40 times alone.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
are you serious?
thats great.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 28, 2009 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
Look, if we’re all aware of it you can guarantee the players are. I talked to more than a few guys who left the Mets and ended up in AA for another team and said they were happier there than in AAA for the Mets cause at least they might get a shot.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
If Heyward/Schafer are both ready by July 1...
we can set off a nice little bidding war for Melky Cabrera between the Mets and Royals.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
If we get Uggla isn’t the thought process that either he or Prado moves to the OF? Wouldn’t mind seeing Uggla at 2B, Martin in RF, Diaz in LF, and Melky traded to the Cubs
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions
can Prado play LF? because if he can we can move prado to LF and trade Melky, Mike Dunn and another weak prospect for Uggla, I would be more than happy with that trade
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 27, 2009 10:46 PM EST reply actions
I kinda wanna keep Mike Dunn. He has the stuff to be a dominate lefty out of the pen.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 27, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
he did had a 6.75 ERA last year in the minors
The PuertoRican Kid
by Kobe:The Legend on Dec 27, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
he pitched 4 innings.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 27, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
4 innings pitched and that's majors.
He also has a ws ring.
by SidKotchman on Dec 27, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's some quality Joe Morgan Logic right there.
We obviously traded for him because he “knows how to win ballgames.”
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 28, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Should he have put the sarcasm font on?
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
If by 6.75 you mean 3.31.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
And that wasn't a fluke, either.
Depending on the league factor you want to use for FIP, his was actually right at or better than his actual ERA.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. Hopefully he gets some control to work with his stuff, cause by all accounts it’s pretty dynamite.
indeed
i really think Billy Wagner’s signing was a great one by FW. We already knew he would be able to help Kimbrel and now he should be able to help Dunn
by drumzalicious on Dec 28, 2009 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
There is no indication...
…that the Marlins want to sell Uggla on the cheap. I doubt that package attracts their interest.
yeah but there’s just about no market for Uggla, only the giants and braves, and while they can afford his salary next season they’d rather not have that on the books im sure
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's why I think...
…Uggla is a Marlin next year. The Marlins like to accumulate good prospects when they salary dump and they just aren’t liking the offers they are getting.
I agree, but Frankie may be hustling. Ya never know. Wait and see I guess.
by SidKotchman on Dec 27, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
True.
The Marlins usually get a good return, but they also are notoriously cheap. It will be interesting to see if they sell cheap or stand pat if they can’t get what they want. Unfortunately, I imagine that if they decide to sell cheap, they won’t do it within the division.
Last time we were involved with the Marlins in a salary dump situation, all we had to give up was Spooney…
Then again, that was for $-$ampton, so…
"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 28, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Prado plays RF in the winter leagues and from cox’s comments this offseason he could certainly play there
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I love KJ...
But that’s still an expensive gamble if you’re really committed to Odarp as the everyday 2B.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
He can.
He’s started three games there for the big club. And if it gets his awful glove away from the middle of the infield, I’m all for it.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
To be replaced by Uggla’s awful glove at second? Prado is no defensive stud, but according to UZR he’s only a couple points under league average, so at least he’s close to adequate. Uggla is a butcher. If we’re talking about flipping one of them out there, I’d much rather Prado stay put and stick Uggla in left, preference for 2B be damned.
Umm...
Actually, Prado’s about 50% worse according to UZR. If we’re going to cherry-pick best seasons, note that Uggla’s got two full seasons at 2B that are far and away better than Prado’s best efforts.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Which numbers are you looking at? Their 2B totals are roughly the same, though Uggla tends to be damn near -10 every season, whereas for the last 3 Prado hasn’t reached as far down as -3. Prado is a better fielder, though we’re pretty much comparing pigs to hogs here. Both are bad, but if one must be sacrificed to LF while the other remains, Prado’s D at 2B is less of a hindrance than Uggla’s.
Fangraphs, broski.
Uggla:
‘06: 7.1
’07: -11.3
’08: 2.0
’09: -9.6
Career: -2.9
So I’m not sure how exactly an average of -2.9 and only 50% of his ML seasons being near -10 means he’s damn near -10 every season. And Prado at his worst has been much, much worse.
’06: -61.6
’07: -26.9
’08: -19.7
’09: -3.6
Career: -15.2
Now I’m willing to give you that he’s gotten better throughout his career, but he has yet to show the capacity to be an above-average fielder at that position yet, as Uggla already has. Further, Prado has shown the ability to be above-average at other positions (7.9 UZR at 1B in 34 games’ worth of innings, 0.7 at 3B in 56 games, and hugely high UZRs in the OF, albeit in a very small sample size), whereas Uggla has never played anywhere else in the majors.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
There exists a thing
called “cherry-picking.”
You took a four year period, and compared to Uggla’s overall UZR to Martin Prado’s UZR/150 over a tiny sample size. Those horrible looking UZR numbers for Martin Prado’s first two years are small sample size projections based on a TOTAL of 125 innings-or about 14 games.
Personally, I suspect that Uggla is better than Prado at second, but I don’t there’s enough evidence for it to be conclusive.
I'm well aware of it.
However, when you look at Prado’s entire career, he’s a below-average 2B in every chance he’s gotten there. And with 86 games worth of data there, I’d certainly say that’s something to go on. I wasn’t arguing that the ‘06 and ’07 numbers were what made Prado bad at 2B, I was just putting them up as part of the totality. If those numbers were +61 and +27, even in small sample sizes, I’d give just as much credit for showing Prado’s potential, not his worth.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Actually from what I know about UZR and sample sizes...
…there really isn’t enough to draw any conclusions on Prado and barely enough to draw conclusions on Uggla. Given that players get less defensive chances that are meaningful than the do AB’s, sometimes significantly less, I have been told that it is best to average a few seasons of UZR to get an idea. If what I have been told is true, Prado just hasn’t played enough to get a good idea, and Uggla barely has. It doesn’t look good in either case, but the sample sizes are pretty small.
3 seasons is about the point at which the data becomes truly meaningful though a guy like Uggla who bounces around year to year is maddening. Right now I’d say Uggla is a little below average at second base and Prado is probably that as well or a zero defender, in other words average. The defensive difference between the two is most likely minimal and it’s why it’d make more sense to move Prado to the OF because he has played there before
by McCann's the Man on Dec 28, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
You're using UZR/150
Which doesn’t work given Prado’s very limited innings, the data on him gets skewed to unusable and unrealisitc extremes when extrapolated for the 150 stat. USe striaght-up UZR, which compares only the time they’ve each actually spent there. Uggla’s career UZR total is -10.8, Prado’s -10.6. Note, though, that Uggla’s valleys include -9.3 and -10.1 values in two different seasons, Prado has never been worse than -2.7. I’m still going Prado at 2B and Uggla in LF if we end up with both players.
It's easier to "valley" when you're good enough to actually play the position with regularity.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 29, 2009 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
well mlbtraderumors now points out that uggla will likely be a salary dump as the marlins dont want to go above 40M on their payroll
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 11:13 PM EST reply actions
thats cool. I'd love Uggla on the braves.
MATT DIAZ IS THE F**K*NG MAN.
They made me change my signature...
Under those conditions, I would too.
But I would be opposed to giving up significant pieces for him.
ya and if the Giants still want him im sure the Fish would rather send Uggla away from the division…
braves#1
though they aren’t even willing to include j. sanchez to this point and at 27 years old, arbitration eligible, and mediocre he’s not very attractive
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Im just sayin if its strictly a salary dump and Marlins dont care about the specs or whatever they are gettin then they would prefer to deal him elsewhere unless of course Braves are offerin some good specs in the deal but if both teams are offerin about the same to the Fish im sure Fish would rather send him to the Giants.
braves#1
It’s why i’m hoping the giants make a run at a couple of the FA’s ie DeRosa
by McCann's the Man on Dec 27, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
And if the Giants got Uggla...
would that take Derosa’s offer off the table, perhaps making him available at a little lower price?
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't see why.
Unless they were planning on using DeRo as the everyday guy at 2B (and I heard he was going to play at 3B if he was going to be anywhere on a consistent basis), Uggla doesn’t replace what DeRosa does.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
They have Freddy Sanchez, remember?...
Add him and Sandoval, that’s two IF jobs right there. I’d assume if they add Uggla for 2nd, then it’s Sanchez to 3rd with Sandoval to 1st. Perhaps they consider Derosa a LF, but he certainly wouldn’t be a SS there.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure if we're agreeing or not, to be honest, but I saw this blurb from Rotoworld a couple games ago:
Should he sign with San Francisco, DeRosa would step into a full-time gig, likely at third base, with Pablo Sandoval making the switch over to first base, where he’ll be less of a liability in the long-term.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
We are disagreeing...
you said Uggla has no bearing on Derosa. Unless one of the two will be playing LF, that is not true since you have to account for Freddy Sanchez, Sandoval, and then a SS in the IF as well.
Both Sanchez and DeRosa can play short.
Sanchez would have to be moved with an Uggla trade regardless.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 29, 2009 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
the Marlins scare me as trade partners...
they may have gotten lucky over the years but, they’ve picked up some damn good prospects in salary dump trades (see Brad Penny, Anibal Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, the NL version of Dontrelle Willis, and oh yeah that Hanley Ramirez guy.)
yeah they killed the nats in the willingham and olson for bonifacio deal
by McCann's the Man on Dec 28, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
he did throw that game last year
added a point or two to his value
by drumzalicious on Dec 28, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
i hear we're going after Albert Pujols
however, i literally have no proof that this is true. just wanted to throw it out there.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 28, 2009 12:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions
We're concerned Pujols can't pass the physical...
but if he does, I’ve heard he’s our for Freddie Freeman, Brandon Hicks, Jojo Reyes, Cory Gearrin, Cole Rohrbough, Julio Teheran, Todd Redmond, Cody Johnson, Edison Sanchez, Andy Otero, Luis Valdez, and Cory Rasmus.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Well hey...
At least we hold on to Vizcaino.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
He wouldn't of course, but I'd...
…do that deal for the Braves in a heatbeat. Hell, put Heyward in Atlanta, and I’d give them most of our minor-league franchises outright.
2010 NL East WAR
I have my 2010 NL East WAR Worksheet updated with a summary of results. The Braves did very well and look to be in serious contention for “atleast” the wild-card. A full season of Tommy Hanson, a decent hitting and fielding first baseman and an upgrade in LF will help offset the loss of Javier Vazquez (and then some).
vr, Xei
Yeah. I don’t think Javy could replicate his stellar season, and Tommy’s here for a whole year! Definite reason not to worry.
Only thing to worry about
Is Tommy is going into his first full season in the bigs, after throwing the most innings of his life in 2009. I’m a little worried about his arm.
I used to like Frank Wren...not anymore. I want John Schierholz back!
by Scott Coleman on Dec 28, 2009 2:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he will be fine
With Kawakami working as much as he did and hopefully improving the team should be able to give Hanson some rest. In the play off’s im pretty sure he will be moved to the pen. We also have Huddy, Lowe and Jurrjens as the 1st three starters and all of those guys can give us 200 innings.
by drumzalicious on Dec 28, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
The rule of thumb
has typically been not to exceed a pitcher’s workload by more than 50 innings season-to-season. He threw 56 more innings this year. With him showing no signs of injury or fatigue, I’d say that’s close enough and there’s nothing to worry about.
I think you forget the innings he threw in the AFL, right?
by McCann's the Man on Dec 28, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
If last seasons Lowe can win 15
Tommy Hanson could win 20… dear God please send us pre-sixth inning run support.
good stuff!
Those projections include Diaz or Heyward in RF?
by Sid Bream's Moustache on Dec 28, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Main outfield of...
Cabrera/McLouth/Diaz
I did not include Heyward in the 2010 projections at all.
vr, Xei
Very interesting to see Hanson leading the pitchers in WS.
How many innings do you have him throwing?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
uggla IMO wouldnt be worth what it would cost the braves. trading within the division just means they are going to jack up the price on us.
however if what dob speculates is true that we can get him for melky and a reliever that we will never use then sure. as far as where he would play i have no clue. He is inferior defensively to Prado so i dont want him at 2B. If we didnt sign Glaus to play 1B then it would be all good.
Maybe we can flip him to the Twins for some prospects. Arent they looking for a 2B?
Haha...
Inferior defensively to Prado isn’t really a huge loss. If you’re willing to put a butcher like Nitram at second, you’re probably not that reluctant to put a bigger bat like Uggla there. And hey, can’t Hubbard’s MI magic take over like all the Prado fluffers know he can? Also, wouldn’t leaving Glaus on the bench work just fine? Unless they’re roster time incentives, keeping him as a bench player actually helps our bottom line.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Hell, our defense at 2B would be better...
…if Hubby just took it over himself. He probably would be a better fielder now than what we have thrown out there recently.
editor
you are not using the term “beg the question” correctly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
It is not a synonym for to raise the question, as you seem to think.
I read it on Wikipedia, so it must be true…
jerryclore, did you see the part at the bottom about “Modern Usage” where it points out that how gondeee is using it is consistent with the way most people do? From a prescriptive standpoint, based on arbitrary “rules” that attempt to stagnate something as ever-changing as language, it can be considered incorrect, but from a descriptive standpoint, which is based of the actual usage by speakers, it is completely correct and viable to be used this way.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Of course, under your linguistic approach...
…anything goes as long as some people understand it. That leads to linguistic chaos, which I guess is fun for linguists to study.
the downside to this
is when you are speaking to people who have studied philosophy and logic, you end up sounding like you don’t know what you are talking about. I think the smart thing to do would be to use a different phrase, instead.
How far is that stick up there?
Can’t be too comfortable…
by get swoll yunel on Dec 28, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
do you
correct someone when they use incorrect baseball terminology, even if they got the point across? well this is exactly the same thing. i don’t understand why you have to be such a dick about it.
No point in trying, jerryclore.
You are getting the same treatment I received when I pointed out incorrect usage of the word unique on TC earlier. (Unique had a modifier in the incorrect usage I saw; the standard mistake, more or less.) Apparently, the dictionary has been taken over by people who mistake ordinary usage for correct usage. That or cbwilk and his linguistic warriors. ;)
Maybe the polite thing to do would have been to point out why some might consider it wrong, even though the phrase is widely used in the way tha the used it, rather than blatantly label it as incorrect, which isn’t entirely true.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
jerryclore,
gtfo.
That is all.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 28, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Quoting from MLBtraderumors...
“…the Marlins are planning another salary dump with Dan Uggla at the center of it. Cafardo adds that the club, which receives a ton in revenue-sharing and central-fund money, is looking to keep its profit margin high. "
It pisses me off to no end that this joke of a franchise has won more WS titles than the Braves have. This is a fucking embarrassment. How do they expect fans to support this team when this is the way ownership handles the team? They play in a joke of a stadium, with a joke of a payroll, and with an ownership that clearly doesn’t give two shits about being competitive.. and yet, they have a fantastic scouting and development team because they remain competitive (almost) year in and year out. It’s a shame for all 36 Marlins fans out there.
MLB should do something about this nonsense. The situation is FUBAR.
by get swoll yunel on Dec 28, 2009 3:22 AM EST reply actions
actually
the reason they are competitive is because they lost for so many years and when their prospects were finally good enough they won a championship and traded them all away and got a ginormous haul for the likes of Miguel Cabrera Josh Beckett etc. so what you see on the field now is those returns from those trades..
i dont disagree with you that their ownership cares nothing about baseball and just wants to make money
by drumzalicious on Dec 28, 2009 5:25 AM EST up reply actions
There were two world titles in two different situations.
The second title was for the reason you described—-they dumped, got good prospects, prospects panned out, they won. The first title was under a different owner who wanted to win a title, money be damned. He went out and bought one with big money free agents. Of course, he lost a ton of money and prompty dumped them all after winning, lol.
That stadium business is getting fixed.
And the answer looks pretty cool.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
No seaside stadium ala San Fran?...
I guess hurricanes would make that difficult.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Not quite.
They’re going for maximum accessibility to the Miami area, and the Orange Bowl site (where it’s being built) has already proven that it’s decent enough to get fans to come out.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I’d rather see the Braves try to sign Nady or even perhaps Jermaine Dye than make a trade for Uggla unless we just simply fleece the Marlins out of him (by that I mean not giving up a top 10 spect) or Schaefer. Uggla strikes out too much and can’t hit for much of an average and can only play 2B. At least Nady and Dye can play OF and some 1B and wouldnt cost us any spects.
Clearly, you haven't seen Dye try to play the OF recently...
…it is debatable whether he can, despite the fact that he does. (As in, defense consistently twice as bad as FUGA’s defense last year.) Nady is a decent fielder in the OF if he is healthy enough to make the throws, which is questionable given that he had TJ surgery in June or July. If he is healthy, Nady makes some sense, as we need a back-up CI anyway. Dye just doesn’t make any sense; his bat isn’t what it was and his fielding is a complete disaster.
Nady's supposed to be full go by ST.
If that’s the case, I’d imagine he’ll certainly be able to handle the OF by oepning day.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
That's what Nady's camp has said.
I assume the Braves, like me, want to see him make some throws first.
Geoff Jenkins fits that 1b/OF role too...
and could be a minor league deal.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
He probably would be...
But I wonder how well he could possibly play after a full season off from the game at 35.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
So you sign him to a minor league deal, and he plays in Gwinnett
getting back into things until Glaus/Chipper get hurt. Or if he proves in spring training he can’t come back, then cut him and you lose nothing.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 28, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
sign derosa and put him in the outfield. leave prado at second
"With great power comes great responsibility"- Ben Parker
Why bother spending that money?
DeRosa wasn’t any better of a hitter than Melky last year and except for a couple of years, hasn’t much in his career. Signing DeRosa to play OF is a waste. As a 2B, his bat isn’t bad. As an OF, his bat is pretty meh—-just like Melky. So why spend the money for that?
“As a 2B, his bat isn’t bad. As an OF, his bat is pretty meh”
so pretty much, your reason for not wanting him is because his bat is not as good compared to other outfielders, as it is compared to other second baseman…thats a pretty shitty way to build a team…
if derosa is the best option, i’d like to think we’d sign him for that reason, not because he doesn’t compare well to the rest league
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
You miss my point.
There are fewer options with decent bats at second base than at OF. Hence, DeRosa’s bat is good at 2B, but mediocre in the OF. I don’t want him for the OF because there are better hitters at cheaper prices available that can play OF. If we needed a second baseman, that isn’t the case. Actually, this is a much smarter way to build a team—-Ross is good hitter for a back-up catcher, but I don’t think we would want to sign him to play the OF, right? Same thing with DeRosa.
The thing is that for the OF, there are plenty of better options than DeRosa. Remember, that based upon 2009 and career numbers, DeRosa is not a better hitter than Melky Cabrera. So we already have one of those options for cheaper than it would be to sign DeRosa.
My comment has nothing to do with any stereotypical profile of a position. It has to do with the fact that compared to other available OF options, DeRosa isn’t that good of a hitter compared to the salary he would command.
DeRosa...
is alot better hitter than melky…
melky’s career numbers:
.269 AVG, .331 OBP, .385 SLG, .716 OPS
derosa’s career numbers:
.275 AVG, .343 OBP, .424 SLG, .767 OPS
it may not seem like alot, but derosa has way more pop..which is one of this teams needs
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
DeRosa's career numbers are totally different than Cabrera's.
They include the prime of his career, which Cabrera should be nearing/entering, and ignore the fact that he’s an aging player in decline as a hitter.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
good point about melky
but if you look at the past 4 years or derosa’s career, he put up good numbers 3 out of 4 of those years…09’ being the worst…i don’t know if is a sign he is on the decline or just had a rough year, if i had to pick i’d pick the latter…he’s only 34, i think he’s got a few more years in him..i guess its a wait and see thing
"Im a fullonrapist, I do men, women, autistic kids, children, the elderly." -Charlie Kelly
We will have to wait and see...
…but I would guess it would have something to do with where he played. For example, his park adjusted numbers in 2007 were similar to 2009, although you count 2009 as a bad season and 2007 as a good one.
Those numbers are not park adjusted.
DeRosa’s OPS+ for his career is 97. Melky’s is 88. Both had 99 last year. Melky has only had four years in the bigs and his 2008 was very bad or his OPS+ would be over 90. DeRosa’s best seasons (the few he has had) have come in bandboxes in Chicago and Arlington. Career-wise he is a slightly better hitter than Melky, but factoring in age for both, I would say it is a coin-toss who will be better in 2010.
Doing Without
I think we can do without either Uggla or DeRo…both are too expensive and don’t really add all that much to what we already have. I would like to see another outfield bat, even if only a bench player. I also don’t understand the wistfulness of some for Kelly J. The guy is so frustratingly, maddeningly streaky, he makes bacon look smooth. Our offense took off as soon as he sat down.
Hmm...could his injury have had anything to do with it?
The offense took off as soon as he came off the DL when he played. Better record during his starts post-injury than Prado’s.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps...but how do you figure?
It may be that KJ had a better record post-injury than Prado, but how do you figure it? I had time only to run the numbers on BA, and, given that KJ came off the DL essentially at the very end of July, I ran the numbers for August, September and October, I figure Kelly with a .223 BA and Martin with almost exactly .300. Are you thinking OBP or OPS or fielding?
by Buddy Holly on Dec 28, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm thinking the Braves' W-L record.
Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.
by MichaelProcton on Dec 28, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Off the subject; Regis is still alive and still doing
a morning talk show? Dear God.. How old is this guy???
by SidKotchman on Dec 28, 2009 10:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions
melky
just my opinion although FO does seem to share view of melky as
a decent piece, ok contact hitter, excellent fielder who may fare well
in ATL vs. NY. can bat at the 2 slot or lower end. His relative youth is
a plus and his salary.
Diaz will likely be needed to spell Glaus at 1b. would be nice to have
another lb-OF on the bench but doesn’t seem likely with Infante and 1 of
conrad/diory/thurston . Canizares would be fun to have off the bench despite
the lead foot and lead glove. he can stroke it, but don’t expect him to
come up other than a short term injury bench filler.
when heyward takes his place in RF this is a pretty good set of pieces. with FF
hopefully taking AAA apart.
So one of our divisional rivals who already struggles with salary issues and overpays vets for long periods of time for below-adequate production just signed an aging vet to a multi year deal for lots of money with sharp regression on the horizon? Nice!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 29, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
