Lowe May Be Talking His Way Out Of Atlanta
by gondeee on Dec 16, 2009 9:02 PM EST
291 comments
Yes, this is another post about the Atlanta Braves' quest to trade Derek Lowe, but this one comes with actual new information. New information directly from the mouth of Lowe himself. I was going to name this post, "Lowe On The Lowe Trade: 'It's Not If, But When'." But then I kept reading the article that Mark Bowman just posted on MLB.com. The almost-title quote from Lowe regarding a potential trade:
"I'm just waiting for it to happen," Lowe said. "I don't think it's a matter of if anymore. It's just a matter of when."
You're not the only one waiting for it to happen, Derek. Then he goes on to stick his proverbial foot in his mouth (my emphasis):
"I take it kind of personal," Lowe said. "Noboby made them give me a four-year, $60 million contract. There wasn't a ransom or anybody holding a gun to their heads. It was a negotiation and that's what they viewed as fair. I would have never even considered going there if I knew that ultimately this was going to happen."
Those are some serious words, fueled in part by this:
Since the season concluded, Lowe said that he has been bothered by the fact that he hasn't had any conversations with any members of the Braves organization.
But the Braves have made contact with Lowe's agent, Scott Boras, to explain the reason they are looking to trade either Lowe or Vazquez.
"By not speaking, that speaks as much as anything," Lowe said. "It's kind of unsettling because you're just sitting here."
That reminds me of the complaints that John Smoltz had last off-season, and quite frankly it's something that surprises me. I would have thought for sure that a coach would call and check in on each player in the off-season to make sure their following a routine and staying in shape.
Lowe has some salient points, and the Braves decision to possibly trade Lowe may have some longer and more serious implications. It has long been policy of the Braves front office not to give no-trade clauses, but the Braves have never (potentially) ushered a high-profile free agent like Lowe out of town so fast. What would trading Derek Lowe, who just signed a 4-year deal with Atlanta, say about the team's commitment to players if he gets traded after just one season (and as Lowe says, really just two bad months that put a black mark on the season). How much harder would it be to try and lure top free agents to Atlanta?
The silver lining here is that if the Braves were waffling on moving Lowe, these few words may have helped motivate them to finally pull the trigger.
0 recs |
291 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Braves' front office coudl stand to be more player friendly
But should he really be surprised that he’s being shopped, considering that he was like our fourth best starter last year but our highest paid?
by Bronn on Dec 16, 2009 9:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh my god
Shit, if he’s mad, he can take over my job and I’ll go pitch in the Major Fucking Leagues for $15MM a year.
Stop being a baby, Derek. If you would’ve pitched better, this wouldn’t be a problem.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 16, 2009 9:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
From his way of thinking, if we hadn’t signed 6 pitchers and instead signed a LF, this wouldn’t be a problem.
We did give him a 4 year contract to play in Atlanta. Who is not doing what they agreed to? Us, or him?
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball is business
We have more cost-effective starting pitchers. He’s the odd man out and we aren’t the Yanks so we have to get rid of him…Lowe is just taking it personal when it’s not.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
So you wouldn’t take it personal if your company had 5 people that made bread (you being one of them), and your company hired someone off the street ONLY BECAUSE THEY MADE LESS MONEY THAN YOU DO, then called a meeting with all of you and said “well, you know guys, we only need 5 bread makers… one of you is going to have to relocate or get fired”.
WTF!
You wouldn’t take that personally?
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But we have 6 bread makers, and we only need 5. Not only that, but the other 5 make bread that is arguably better tasting than yours. Worse yet, is that you are payed on average double what the other bread makers are getting paid. Then you get shipped off to make bread somewhere else while getting paid the same amount of money.
I would understand.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You would understand? Wow, you’re a freaking saint then.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ha
not saying I’m a saint, but Lowe has to know the business side of baseball. He has to understand why he’s getting traded. Obviously, it would suck that it happened, and I feel bad that it happened to him, he just has to know why. It’s not that the Braves don’t like him or want him, it’s just that they can’t keep him.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m just saying. All these analogies are cool, but I signed up to make bread in Atlanta. If you went out and got a bunch of other breadmakers and paid them less, that’s cool for you, but I’m still trying to make my bread in Atlanta. And as far as sending me somewhere else but still making the same money, well, money goes a lot farther in Atlanta than in LA or New York. Now you’re messing with my bread.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Lowe has got to know that in baseball, you can be moved at any time. It’s true that money doesn’t go as far in LA than it does in Atlanta, but we’re talking about 15 million. So what if he has to settle for a smaller mansion?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You really don’t understand that is isn’t about the amount of money involved. Insert whatever you make as his salary, and then say “well, I guess you’ll just have to settle for a smaller house” and see how you feel about that.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. I know they’re millionaires. Ok, fine, that’s a given. Now look at it as Derek Lowe is just another human being like the rest of us. I’m not getting why so many people are mad at the guy for having a natural human reaction.
KBJ, I feel like we’re fighting a losing battle.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 3:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not mad at the guy at all. In fact, I would probably do the same thing.
That being said, he really sounds childish in all of this. He is a professional baseball player. Does he think he is too good to be traded?
Cliff Lee was just traded away too – twice in one year. It happens to everyone.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point… I’ve noticed that I agree with most things you say… I’m not sure that’s a good position for me to be in, though. Haha
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe gets it, so do the Braves.
Lowe commented earlier in the offseason that he didn’t want to be traded but understood the economics of the situation. He knew it was a possibility when he agreed to a contract with us without a no-trade clause. I am sure he must be frustrated by this point and is venting a bit. No biggie on either side for me.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great job
with the whole bread = bread, actually = bread thing.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s the best analogy I’ve heard in a great while.
by TheLetter2 on Dec 20, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
made me sort of hungry by the end of things.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Dec 21, 2009 2:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
"...Braves tie! ...Braves tie! ...Braves tie!"
by The Keith Lockhart Era on Dec 21, 2009 11:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$15 mil to make bread is a hell of a situation to be in, no matter your home address.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You would probably unionize
and then sue. No one would understand that.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If my bread wasn’t as good as the other 5 guy’s and I was making more than they were, then no, I would not take that personally.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you would
If you had more education, experience, and a better resume.
All I’m saying is that FW wasn’t forced to resign Huddy… he could’ve simply bypassed this problem from Lowe’s point of view and signed LaRoche with that 10M.
I agree with what what FW is trying to do in fielding a team, but that doesn’t make it NOT a shitty thing to do.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm….Huddy is a better pitcher than Lowe and he was there first, under a contract that included this coming season. Again, not a shitty thing to do.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But we signed an excess of starters...
add in Glavine, and we oversigned starters thinking the excess would eliminate itself. Well, Jair has stayed pitching at a highly productive level. Vasquez was as good as could be expected. Hudson came back healthy. Kawakami proved he belonged. Hanson was ready to flourish now. Lowe is still solid, but we are now over the needed # of starters because one of the possible ?s (Hanson needing more time, Hudson not coming back full strength, KK, JJ or JV underperforming instead of outdoing expectations). It’s not like he’s a bad pitcher, we just oversigned and didn’t have the excess sort itself out.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so you think
we should get rid of Huddy, who is cheaper, a great pitcher, his family lives close, a huge clubhouse figure AND extremely charitable to the Atlanta community?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Look, I’m not saying FW isn’t doing the right thing for the team. I’m saying it is a shitty thing to do.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I think Wren doesn’t want to have to trade Lowe. I’m sure he’d rather hold onto him, and I think most believe that Lowe will have a good season next year. Honestly, I think even if Lowe had a good year with a 3.50 ERA we’d still be looking at trading him cuz that’s the way things worked.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who got hired off the street?
When considering salary and performance, the bread maker you speak of is the least efficient on the payroll. He should have made better bread on a consistent basis.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is lame. Based on that logic, no player should ever be traded.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
After the 1st year of a 4 year deal…. probably not.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a business decision. If Glavine and Smoltz are not immune to it, Derek Lowe certainly isn’t.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They weren’t under contract, either.
My only point is that it is kinda wrong for the FO to do this. Sure, it is legal for them to do this, but just because it isn’t wrong doesn’t make it right.
I wouldn’t want my employer to treat me this way for doing the best job I could do while working my ass off… I think that is his only point.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glavine most certainly was under a contract. I don’t see how trying to field the best team possible is wrong.
Lowe is going to have to move. If that is the biggest problem in his life, he needs to start being more thankful and less whiney.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn’t a guaranteed contract. He was a temp.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly was that million he gave him when he signed not guaranteed?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Moving sucks...
I’d be pissed too.
Read his comments justin, it’s not like the guy doesn’t understand the business aspect of this. He just thinks it sucks that he signed a 4 year deal to pitch here, and now we don’t want him a year into it. And I agree with him.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading someone away to help your team try and win the World Series is not “wrong.” If we hold onto Lowe, we don’t win.
My dad once got fired for accidentally mentioning his boss’s wife and kids in front of his mistress. Now that, is wrong. Not making good business decisions.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
From his perspective, we could trade Vaz, Hanson, Kawakami, JJ and/or possibly Huddy.
Guaranteed we’d get a big bat for Hanson.
I don’t agree, but, from Lowe’s perspective, it is possible.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of those guys are under contract too…then it is unfair to trade them.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
don’t let Selig get a hold of this. He’ll make trading illegal.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Lowe's perspective...
damn, I typed it twice for goodness sakes.
Vaz – came here by trade - we didn’t make music videos and corporate presentations to come work here.
Huddy – came here by trade - again, no Alan Jackson swing-a-dingy-dong videos.
Again, from Lowe’s perspective: you shouldn’t have done those things if you didn’t want me to freaking work here.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who do you think would be worse to trade, Lowe or Hanson?
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What do I get?
Pujols for Hanson? Certainly
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We could probably get Pujols’s beard trimmings for Hanson…sadly, I would at least consider it
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hanson for Pujols Pubes…MAKE IT HAPPEN, FW!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
then make a beard for Escobar out of Pujols pubes…then we’ll see how many homers Escobar can hit
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a Jackass skit in there somewhere….
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm...
not one I wanna watch. Gross.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not the point...
it’s why sign him to big money for four years, when you’re gonna have buyer’s remorse so shortly into it. And it’s not like he didn’t pitch well. He had some bad outings, but he had enough good ones too. If we had such excess of starters (which we didn’t when he signed with Hanson in AAA and Hudson in rehab), why sign him to a 4 year deal? We made the stupid decision, he just believed us when we said we wanted him here for 4 years. It’s business, he gets that, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a shitty deal.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because he wouldn’t sign with anyone unless they included the 4th year. It isn’t like FW made up the 4th year just because.
I seriously doubt Atlanta ever intended to keep Lowe around for 4 years anyway. 2 at the most – depending on the development of Hanson, recovery of Huddy and adjustment of KK.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It really doesn’t matter how any of those guys got here. They were Braves long before Lowe was. Even Vaz was a Brave before Derek Lowe was even an afterthought.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe was recruited
which is exactly my point. Tenure doesn’t really apply here.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither do his personal feelings.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can justify it as “business is business” however you want to, but it doesn’t change the fact that FW is taking a big ole shit on top of a printed copy of that slideshow presentation, mixing it with Alan Jackson spittle, and rubbing it all over Lowe’s face.
Now, if he isn’t supposed to take a face-shit-spittle rubbing personal, that’s fine. it doesn’t change the fact he needs to wipe it off.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So buisnesses aren't supposed to enhance their attractive features to every job candidate?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me guess
you’ve never managed anyone before.
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
so these people you’ve managed, you don’t take their personal feelings into account?
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do. But they also don’t whine and cry when I tell them that they have to go to Iraq or Afghanistan. They know that it is part of the job, so it can be expected.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright
you’re talking about a whole different situation. I definitely disagree with you in that I understand why he’s upset and you think he should shut up, but I’m not going to sit here and compare a baseball trade to deploying soldiers.
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s all just part of the job. That is the only similarity I was referring to.
Besides, if you want to try to call me out on management and dealing with people, be prepared for my answer.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How is trading Derek Lowe similar to being responsible for telling guys they’re going to Iraq?? There’s no comparison there.
Damn dude, nobody called you out. I made an assumption, and was wrong. Don’t take it as a personal affront.
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah, that swing-a-dingy-dong video made all the difference. no wonder he is in full whine.
by fandave on Dec 17, 2009 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alan Jackson DOES tug on those heartstrings.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
comparing professional athletes earning eight figure salaries to ordinary folk trying to hold onto a job is silly.
Lowe voluntarily signed a contract without a no-trade clause and, therefore, can be traded. whining to the media is unprofessional and makes him look stupid, petty and just absurd, particularly after a less than impressive performance last season.
by fandave on Dec 17, 2009 7:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We all take too lightly
the notion that because these guys “play a game” and they “make millions,” they’re not allowed to get upset or feel disrespected about being traded, released, etc.
Imagine how you’d feel if you were fired or shipped off to some other company just because you had a rough couple months at work. Just because he’s got money, it’s OK to say “Quit your whining?”
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The dude isn’t being shipped off to Alaska or being fired here.
He is most likely going to end up in New York or California…poor buggar!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why should that matter though?
He chose to play for Atlanta. They don’t want him anymore and he feels disrespected—why is that sentiment not allowed in your mind?
Maybe he doesn’t like NY or want to play in CA. That isn’t his prerogative?
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure it is, but then he should have asked for a NTC for those places.
He has no ground to stand on, and as Fandave said, he is just making himself look childish and foolish.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Having human emotions
Doesn’t make you a child.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But thinking that you are too good to be traded does.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see where he said that he was too good to be traded.
I just think we have two different viewpoints and will have to agree to disagree.
I can see it from his perspective and understand that he is upset that his company isn’t treating him the way he thinks he should be treated.
You see it from a view that he should be glad to have a job making millions, and many people would simply love to have an employer right now, period, not to mention the money he makes.
I can see that perspective, too, but that doesn’t mean he should just shut up and take it… he still has a right to feel the way he does.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't make stuff up
He never said, nor implied, that he was too good to be traded.
by hoboken_wood on Dec 17, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Being cited with approval by Justin. Just wow. :-)
by fandave on Dec 17, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
like i have said before: if we argue long enough, eventually we will agree on some things!
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If he “chose” to play for Atlanta, if he wanted to play here so badly, why did he demand a fourth year? He came because he got that fourth year, yes?
He performed poorly. In any job, if you perform poorly, there are going to be consequences. And when you’re payed like you should perform the best and you fail, expect there to be consequences. I agree with fandave, Lowe is making himself look foolish.
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah.
If I was getting overpaid for my performance by some 25%, I’d probably be happy to go wherever I was told.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he’s a professional and a public figure. If he wants to vent to the press, he makes himself look very bad.
by fandave on Dec 17, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glavine was CERTAINLY under contract.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't give him a no trade clause
As always, the Braves signed him to a contract without a no trade clause. The trade clause covered the team for the contingency of Hudson’s recovery and Hanson’s development.
Their mistake was paying him too much, making his contract difficult to unload. The reason why that price-value relationship is out of kilter is because if Lowe’s performance.
My guess is Scott Boras made all kinds of representations to them about Lowe’s talents. This team would be in a better place now and for the last five years if they’d avoided doing business with Boras.
by JimK on Dec 17, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't agree to play well?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I keep seeing those pictures in my mind of Lowe running the stairs during the first few days of ST this year, and hearing about his great work ethic…it’s really too bad things worked out this way, i had such a good feeling about him when i first heard those kinds of things
"Dum spiro spero"
by Bravely going forward on Dec 16, 2009 9:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I can see both sides
Its not personal, its just logic. We have six starters, we can use five, so we trade the one that doesn’t help us the most – either by taking up too much payroll or by not being as effecive or both. If we only had five etablished starters I doubt we trade Lowe at all.
I really enjoyed having Lowe and I get his hard feelings. I actually welcome them because it shows that he wants to stay on this team and isn’t like ‘FU guys I want out of town. I’m glad they are trading me’. At the same time its nothing personal against Lowe and Wren is just doing his job.
by bbxxj on Dec 16, 2009 9:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, i can kinda see it. They did court him pretty hard, getting Alan Jackson to film a video, all that jazz. From all accounts he’s a good teammate and a good guy. I just got done watching the Christmas card video from the Braves, he was pretty funny in that.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Dec 16, 2009 9:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
nothing personal just business
D. Lowe needs to keep his mouth shut he is going to get bad either way and maybe if he would had performed a little bit better than what he did for the last couple of mths of the season we wouldn’t be talking about dealing him right now. However the Braves front office is not off the hook by any stretch b/c we did court him very, very hard. D. Lowe needs to understand that this is simply a business / $ situation and a personal one which by his comments is the way he is taking it.
The real fact is that D. Lowe is not worth the type of money we paid for him in the first place and now that he has made his comments public it is time to part ways with him for sure.
Adios Senor Lowe ~
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Only 8 comments so far?
Man, they way the threads have been filling up the past few days, I was expecting 100 comments already lol.
Gondeee, is it just my imagination, or has the site been extra busy the past 2 weeks or so?
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 16, 2009 9:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure it's related to the excited surrounding
the upcoming release of “Avatar.”
The movie hasn’t even opened yet and it’s already screaming “sequal.”
by Bronn on Dec 16, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you think so?
I never really watched the show or anything, and I dont think i’ll go see it. It looks like a mix of Star Trek and Transformers to me.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 16, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not related to The Last Airbender
That’ll be Shamalan’s next project next year. Avatar the film has shite to do with Avatar the show.
by J-Freak on Dec 17, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can anyone spell “sequel?”
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are trying hard to trade Lowe
It is just no one wants a 37 yo no 5 SP earning 45 mil, Who had only ever pitched well in Dodger stadium
Check out last year stats, against his away record at LA
Quites imply the Cinci SP are younger, cost less, have their stats inflated in a hitter’s park (unlike Lowe) and has shorter contract
If noone wants Cinci SP, it will be a while before they gets to Lowe
by a hay on Dec 16, 2009 9:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's only ever pitched well at Dodger Stadium?
5 starts at Citizens Bank in Philly, 33.2 IP, 1.60 ERA
7 starts at AT&T in San Fran, 44 IP, 2.05 ERA
5 starts at PNC, 33.2 IP, 2.67 ERA
36.2 IP at Jacobs Field, 2.95 ERA
8 starts, 48.1 IP at Petco, 2.98 ERA
21-6 at these parks combined
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 18, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a hay doesn’t believe in facts.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 18, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cant blame him
here we are trying to throw him out the door, and really if i was Lowe i wouldnt want to sign with a team to sign me then trade me the next offseason
he has a right to take it personal
that being said he’s the one that needs to go to improve our team, nothing against Lowe, i’m a fan of his, but our pitching will be alright with out Lowe, our offense will still be sucky if we keep him
so if we trade him for a salery dump and go the FA route, or trade him for good bats it will improve our team overall, and i wish Derek the best where ever he goes
by bravesfan1047 on Dec 16, 2009 10:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I actually completely agree with Lowe here. The Braves went out and outbid everyone to get him and now, a year later, after he wins 15 games (and yes, wins aren’t the end all be all, but a) he didn’t pitch that bad and b) to a pitcher who doesn’t know advanced sabermetrics they are, the dude ain’t Brian Bannister), they’re trying to unload him. It seems kind of unfair from his perspective. It has made me wonder how it’s going to affect future free agent signings. I mean, even with all the money, if I sign with Atlanta it’s because I want to play in Atlanta. Heck, 15 million in Atlanta goes a lot further than it does in LA or Chicago or New York.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 16, 2009 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It wont. This common for any team, club, business, etc… trying to build a nucleus and readying themselves to dig their cleats in the sand and start moving. I dont buy the fact that just because a certain person wants to be there, that said employer is required to keep that person around for that reason alone. And if anyone out there thought Lowe would finish out his contract as a essential part of the Braves nucleus or even rotation, were kidding themselves.
The options were always there. Trade Vasquez, trade Lowe, trade Kawamaki, or let Hudson walk. Anybody arriving in the last year had to be well aware of the fact. I mean, in all seriousness, it sounds as if he thought Vasquez was going to be traded. Im sure Lowe wouldve been fine with that outcome.
by aRC on Dec 16, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still, how many guys sign a four year deal and are traded after one? I’m having a hard time even thinking of someone.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 16, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i mean
I can see where he is coming form. I am honestly surprised the Braves haven’t communicated with him AT ALL this offseason. Beyond that I HIGHLY DOUBT he wanted to play in Atlanta that bad. He came to Atlanta because they were the only team willing to give him the contract he was looking for. Otherwise he would have gone to some other team.
If a player really wanted to play for a certain team they would work it out at a price that was above market value for the player. Yes he is a good pitcher but not worth that contract AT ALL. He knew we had Tim Hudson coming back. He also knew that we had Kawakami and Javy. At the end of the year as Hudson was coming back he should have figured then that his time was up. When your outperformed by the teams #5 starter (Kawakami) and a rookie (Hanson) your time is up.
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but from a player perspective when they pay you more money than any of the other starters they’re telling you “you’re our guy” and “you’re a Brave till the end of the deal”. It’s just an odd mixed message. It’s not really his responsibility to look at any other perspective than his own.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 16, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no its not
its saying, we are desperate to land someone other than what we have. not really wanting him but needing him. FW had no interest in him AT ALL last season. There were talks of us looking into trades before we even settled for Lowe.
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true. But the yankees bought them all and ripped the rug out from under us. Lowe was all that was left. It wasn’t like we were desperately seeking after him.
by Gage23 on Dec 16, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
but
he was all that was left. If we didnt sign him there would have been an uproar
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right. And my point is that we signed him because we were in a situation where we needed a SP. We didn’t need Derek Lowe. He demanded a lot, so we were forced to give it to him. We didn’t scope him out to keep him around for years.
I’m following the mentality that he is the highest paid player in the rotation and the least effective producer. He’s the one that goes.
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
take out guys who didn't become clubhouse cancers...
or have another extenuating factor, and it’s probably unprecedented.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It has made me wonder how it’s going to affect future free agent signings. I mean, even with all the money, if I sign with Atlanta it’s because I want to play in Atlanta.
This. If FW and the other bloggers don’t understand this, or think that other big-name FA’s aren’t watching and taking notes, they are fooling themselves. No one is going to come to the Braves if they think this is the way they are going to be treated. Period.
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Dec 17, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Braves are well known for never giving no-trade clauses...
…everybody already knew we were like this.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What about Lowe to the Cubs for Soriano? that look like it has potential?
I is for I can't wait for spring to get here- Matty D
(Yunel is still the Queen of Hearts)
by GoBravesNY on Dec 16, 2009 10:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Lowe’s contract is “unfavorable.” Soriano’s is “untradeable.”
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 16, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe is now officially a douche.
He had a kid when he was 16, he cheated on his ex-wife, he is a Boras client, and now this?
by GouldisGold on Dec 16, 2009 11:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
wait
how does having a kid at 16 make you a douche?
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It shows irresponsibility and immaturity.
by GouldisGold on Dec 16, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
.....all 16 year olds are immature.
And about the preggers thing…..it’s Russian roulette, man. I’ve had a few close calls myself.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 16, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
But not everyone has knocked up a girl when they were 16. Jeez.
Anyways, I’m just mad at Derek Low right now. It will pass.
by GouldisGold on Dec 16, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not all of us had the chance to try...
kids at 16 is unlucky. High schoolers have sex, and babies are products of that.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not all high schoolers have sex…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said that above...
“not all of us had the chance to try”.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, I’d have been happy with some second base action.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so do a lot of things in life
however that does not make someone a douche. I would like you to please show me one person in this world who has lived a life where they havent made a irresponsible decision or one of immaturity.
When you can do that then I would like you to point out where in YOUR life you havent done something that was irresponsible or immature.
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody’s perfect, dude. Anyways.
Considering the fact that we moved Frenchy to the Mets, this should be a cakewalk. Move him to the fucking Mets as well. Maybe the Bay talks will fall thru. I ain’t scurred. Omar is too coked out of his gourd to get any real work done.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 16, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I live by this motto:
The only time the Mets win is in the offseason.(Beltran, Delgado, Santana, K-Rod, Putz, and one playoff appearence to show for it)
by GouldisGold on Dec 16, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I live by this motto:
F*ck the Mets.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 16, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Knowing Lowe he would pitch his only good games against us. Although we could always counter with the ace slayer (Kawakami)
To be honest i wouldnt be to upset if the braves ate half his contract and we got Juan Rivera/Swisher. I mean we got ourselves into this and we shouldnt expect to have a team take on a pitcher on a terrible contract AND get something of value in return.
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Franchy .300 10HR 45RBI
Church non tendered .200 2HR 10RBI
Yeah that was a great win
by a hay on Dec 17, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Frenchy sucks, and it has nothing/everything to do with the numbers he puts up.
He is a douche-filled, cocklicking unclefucker, and I’m glad the little bastard is gone.
That being said, yeah, Church was a disappointment.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 for the unclefucker ref
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like this guy’s keyboard has pictures of cows and ducks on it and it’s some kind of idiot savant situation that’s actually putting words on the screen.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 1:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHAHAHA!
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like one of those chickens that beats your ass in tic-tac-toe?
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet analysis.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Surprising
this isn’t even on MLBTR yet.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 16, 2009 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Another point I must make
Don’t expect us to get much in return for Lowe. This is a salary dump.
by GouldisGold on Dec 16, 2009 11:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would hope so.
We aren’t going to get a quality major league starter in return. I’d be happy with a couple of AA pitchers to tell you the truth.
Right now the value in the trade is money in the pocket. Now, if we traded Vazquez I’d expect a starting left fielder in the deal.
by kalesi on Dec 17, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, when do we officially give up moving Lowe and trade Vazquez?
Cause I’m kinda at that point now. I just think if Lowe could be moved he would have been already.
I think we seriously need to prepare ourselves for a trade involving Vazquez at this point. HE is the best pitcher on the market, not Lowe.
I firmly believe Lowe will be wearing an ‘A’ on his chest when the season starts. I don’t think anyone wants him, even for freebies.
Vazquez has a limited no trade clause that allows him to block trades to all NL West and AL West clubs, so who does that leave open?
Well, not the Angels, for one. The Brewers and the Yankees, maybe…
I honestly would put money on Vazquez being moved for prospects within the next week or so to free up the payroll space to bring in LaRoche or NDick Johnson… and I’m not real happy about it.
I just think the writing is on the wall already.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 16, 2009 11:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
it's been said multiple times
that Frank Wren and Co. would wait until Lackey signed before they would move DLowe. Lackey officially signed 10 hours ago…give the man a few days to do his thang.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 16, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep. it’s true.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 16, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
indeed
ppl are very impatient around here.
i figure right now the Angels and all other teams looking for a starter are sorting through their options. Just to name a few who could be on the market:
Harang
Arroyo
Oswalt
i mean there are more out there. the angels could be so desperate now that they actually give up talent for a TOR starter. Im sure they could make a package good enough for the Marlins to trade Josh Johnson. Or for the D-Backs to trade Webb/Harren
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of those options...
are better than Lowe.
Very few of those options are better than Vazquez.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i understand your point
i was just saying. teams will go through those options before lowe. after they have gotten a sense of what it would take for those guys they will then check on lowe
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why we should be trying to actively move Vazquez...
If he is 10th on the list of “available” pitchers instead of 1st or 2nd, I don’t think we can afford to wait. All of the free agents will be gone, and we’ll end up having to eat a good bit of Lowe’s contract.
I’m really not trying to be impatient, but how much longer is LaRoche, Bay, Holliday going to remain on the market, even if we wanted to pursue? Not much longer, I promise.
I just think there is a time frame here for a deal, and we are nearing the deadline.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
completely agreed
Lowe has no value, There are probably 3 teams with the ability of adding 15 mil on their payroll, and they are not going to want a 3 yr 45 mil contract for a 35+ 4.6 ERA, ERA+ 88 SP
There is no market, unless we adds lots of cash or prospects
by a hay on Dec 17, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG…seriously? How many times can you say the same thing?
We get it. You don’t like Lowe. You think he is horrible and that nobody will want to trade for him unless we throw in Heyward just so they will take that dirty rotten sucky pitcher off our hands.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i am just a realist
go check out the Angel’s and Yankee’s blog if you want to know what they think of Lowe
As for the Mets, they are slitting their wrist, they have no time for lowe
by a hay on Dec 17, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You do realize that whatever people say on their blogs actually has no bearing on what the team management does, right?
by FineHamAbounds on Dec 17, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
funny how that works.
I said it last night, I’ll say it again…I want Albert Pujols in a Braves jersey the rest of his career; that doesn’t mean shit to anyone in our Front Office. It’s all just fan opinion.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 17, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it may seem that I am saying the same thing, but I’m not. I think Lowe does have some value, and I think we could eventually move him.
I doubt, though, we’ll do it anytime soon, and I doubt we’ll do it without having to eat 2-4 million per year.
Vazquez would probably net us some salary relief and some nice prospects, and I really don’t mind Lowe in a Braves jersey next year. I think he could easily have a bounce back year.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love how first he was 39, then he was 37, and now he is 35+
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
WHY THA FUCK DONT WE HAV PUJOLS YET!?
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but...
It is pretty common knowledge that the Braves want to trade a starter, and have been since they inked Huddy months ago.
If I am any damn GM, and I know that you need to trade a starter, do I say “sure, I’ll take the old guy signed for 3 years and 45 million” or “I’ll take a great big old heaping pile of the younger stud coming off a career year for 1 year 11.5 mils, please!”?
Hmmmm….
Of course we want to move Lowe, but I’m sure that Vazquez is the most attractive horse in the stable right now.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 16, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boo-Fricken-Hoo!
Perhaps if he hadn’t been outpitched by 4 or 5 other Braves’ pitchers, he woulnd’t be the one being shopped around right now.
Perhaps if he didn’t demand that 4th year, he wouldn’t have been so expensive, and they may have been able to retain him.
Perhaps if he had insisted on a no-trade clause, he wouldn’t be in this situation.
I don’t feel sorry for him at all.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 16, 2009 11:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Would we be having this conversation if Tim Hudson...
1. Came back ineffective
2. Became a free agent
Probably not. I wonder what was going through Lowe’s head when Huddy extended with the team? I can see both sides to this argument, and there are a lot of possible outcomes. But in the end, I think I have to side with the “It’s business” mentality, because as it stands now it really is. And in the end, Lowe’s feelings are probably going to be less of a factor as he declines his way through three more years while making $15 million each, and he’s pretty much got his accounts set for a good long time regardless of what he does afterward.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Dec 16, 2009 11:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1 ... and here's the big contrast:
1. On the one hand, you have Tim Hudson, who wanted to stay with this specific team and had a high-priced contract option. On his own initiative, he sought out the Braves and volunteered for a HUGE paycut so he could do so… and so he could free up resources for the team. [But by the way, he probably (still) doesn’t have a no-trade clause]. Kudos to Hudson – not only for doing this, but for seeing the forecast and making his own fate secure.
2. On the other hand, you have Derek Lowe. Once a player signs with Scott Boras’ agency, he effectively acquires the label ‘MERCENARY’. The reason for this is wrapped around the way Boras negotiates with clubs. Lowe did not approach the Braves like Huddy did — and he didn’t have to, BTW. Lowe simply waited and let matters play out. He will get his money — even if he were to get hurt and never throw another pitch. But he also can’t complain that he’s a victim of circumstances, for his association with Boras automatically set much of this into motion… for good or bad.
by carpengui on Dec 17, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Players sign with Boras for a reason.
They want top dollar and Boras delivers. It doesn’t particularly make them mercenaries any more than the Braves non-tendering players makes them heartless. If a player has no particular ties to a team or an area, it could make a lot of sense (and dollars, lol) to go with Boras. I don’t see how that makes a player somehow morally inferior. If any one of us had multiple offers to do the same job with similar conditions and didn’t mind where we lived, we would most likely take the highest paying offer. Just like our employers would hire the cheaper candidate for a job all other things being equal.
For Hudson, he had non-financial reasons to want to stay here. So he gave us a discount. That worked for the Braves, so now we try to move out they guy who didn’t give us a discount. I am not sure why everyone is getting worked up on one side or the other—-both the Braves and Lowe are acting on the same level and dealing with the business side of baseball as it is generally done.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this. I have no problem with players signing with Boras, and I have no problems with Boras.
That being said, these same players should realize that when a team wants to move them for salary reasons, whether it be 1 year after they signed or 10 years after they signed, they need to realize that the team is just playing the same financial game that the player was when they were a Free Agent.
This is why I think Lowe should get the JSU award. He went after the money and the guaranteed 4th year. He played hard-ball when he had the upper hand. Now, he doesn’t have the leverage and he doesn’t want to play the financial game all of a sudden. If you can’t stand the heat, don’t go into the kitchen.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we basically agree.
I think that Lowe’s earlier comments were much more understanding of the situation and realistic. I think he knows he is going to be traded and wants to get it done so he can make his adjustment, etc. From looking at his comments, I think he was just blowing off some steam. I don’t see that anyone did anything particularly wrong in this situation. Yeah, Lowe went a bit over the top—-he would have signed here anyway for the contract—-but hey, who here doesn’t when they get worked up. I know I do. I just think this is a bit of a non-story that gets big publicity in these parts because nothing else is going on.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Corporate interest perhaps?
Sorry if I’m possibly going off on a tangent here but there is a debate about how cold the Braves have become and their ability to pay salaries like Lowe’s…
Could it be the “corporate” in the Braves that have made them so cold? Most individual owners talk to their potential business “partners” personally to ensure that both sides feel comfortable with whatever deal they want to make.
I just can’t wait for Liberty to sell to someone who gives a damn.
I don’t believe corporate owners have ever done well in the standings and frankly I’m sick of them hamstringing the team with this ridiculous ceiling on salaries. If you want to ensure your team of winning you have to spend a little. The Braves are just like any business. You can only be so creative with X amount of dollars. If you ask me, increasing salaries just $10 million more would make a huge difference.
Look at the team payroll over the past 9 years: from http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1993599
2001 $83 million
2002 $92 million
2003 $93 million
2004 $106 million
2005 $86 million
2006 $90 million
2007 $87 million
2008 $102 million
2009 ?
I don’t know how accurate these numbers are because I don’t know what that $102 million is from 2008, but none the less, the average since 2001 is $92 million, which makes sense because this is what management is trying to hold the team payroll at.
So why is management trying to hold the budget at $92 million when that’s the same one this team has had since 2001!! How competitive can the team be when there has been no adjustment for the HUGE increases in salaries we’ve seen in the last decade???? In effect, IT’S A PAY CUT.
Interesting that Atlanta is the 8th largest metropolitan area in the U.S. and the 8th largest television draw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/markettrack/us_hh_by_dma.asp
If you consider that New York, Los Angeles and Chicago have two teams each and if each one is drawing equally (debatable), then that bumps the Braves up two slots to #6 ahead of Chicago!! And to think that Atlanta is the fastest growing metropolitan area in the top 10. Only Dallas and Houston rivals Atlanta’s incredible growth.
Interesting notes… Boston outspends Atlanta by a huge margin and yet the Boston metro area is about 16% smaller (about 850,000 people)! How do they do it? The Florida Marlins claim they don’t have the means to spend and yet Miami is the 7th largest metro area in the U.S., ahead of Atlanta! New York can spend money like nuts even though they have two teams because the New York area is #1 in population and television draw by a large margin over everyone else. You have to think that the Yankees draw is possibly 50% larger than the size of the entire metro area of L.A. since there are people that drive down from way outside the metro area to watch a game. There are a lot of Yankee fans in the Hartford, CT area for example.
Now we would have to debate about what is the Braves true draw since the Braves have a virtual lock on fandom in the entire Southeastern U.S. outside of Florida. So why don’t the Braves draw more fans to the games then? That is a good question but it certainly can’t be because of how many people live in the Atlanta area.
Please, I don’t EVER want to hear anyone say that Atlanta is a “small market” or the Braves somehow can’t spend money. These are absolutely ridiculous statements. Management just needs to do a better job of attracting fans to their stadium! How about bringing in marquee players perhaps to make the games more exciting??? I hardly think that No-Hit Norton contributed much… LOL.
The Braves USED be one of the top teams for attendance! (I won’t post anything here) It’s a simple formula: Make the games exciting by bringing in top talent. Heyward will help, but this may be an argument for bringing in guys like Matt Holliday. Don’t get me wrong, this is not an argument for bringing in any particular player. All I’m saying is that Liberty Media sucks and they have hamstrung this team and made Wren’s job that much more difficult. For this I give him an A+ for making this team halfways competitive.
Please, at least increase the budget by $10 million and maybe sometime soon: Go away. ;-)
I’ll have to post this elsewhere as well… or Gondee just delete this… ;-) Just a rant…;-)
-----
Braves Fan Since 1982. Go Braves!
"All opinions welcome..."
by proeye on Dec 16, 2009 11:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This team is losing revenue, I reckon.
Have you seen any of the home games? Half the seats are empty!
by GouldisGold on Dec 16, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
maybe if we had been in a playoff hunt that would have changed.
im sorry but the acquisition of Garret Anderson did NOTHING for the fan base. it was like a slap. yea we got a good rotation but a crappy lineup and it showed this whole year.
by drumzalicious on Dec 16, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, when we were only a game or so out of the WC, the stadium was still empty, even after the cheesey marketing campaign.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If we win it...they will come............probably.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 17, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
People in Atlanta just got sick of being emotionally invested in this team only to be let down in the end.
They might have been a game out of the WC, but no one had any reason to have any faith that they would do anything other than fall on their face again, which is what happened. And the people who did get tricked into being exited about last year’s team are now less likely to show up and support them this year.
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thats because
every time they gave us hope they let us down. prime example was that collapse at the end of the season.
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2009 4:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The “Believe” campaign led to an 0-6 record.
"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson
by 10-4 on Dec 17, 2009 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
….at least it’s a sea of blue and not a sea of orange.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 16, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
half?
LOL. If only. We’re lucky to draw more than 20,000 on weekdays.
I don’t wanna say anything else about there not being fans at the Ted tho…last time I made a general statement on TC about fans not going to the games, I was nearly burned at the stake.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 16, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is a disturbance in the force..
I can’t help but notice that we are losing fans and the Mets and Phillies continue to gain fans.
Man, I hate bandwagoners.
by GouldisGold on Dec 17, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoever joins the Mets bandwagon is a blithering idiot.
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, the Muts got a new stadium and play in the biggest city in the country. i can see why their stadium is filled most nights.
and yeah, there’s a shitload of bandwagon Philly fans. It’s funny…once a team wins a world series for the first time in forever, a bunch of fans just “appear” cough Steelers, Patriots, Red Sox cough
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 17, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen.
Especially the Steelers. I don’t hate their team, I just hate their fan base. I have seen countless Steelers “fans” ever since they won the Super Bowl.
by GouldisGold on Dec 17, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can at least see why there’s some Steelers fans…they used to be really good.
The Patriots, on the other hand, have no excuse. They were garbage for a long, long time and then they have a few great seasons and supposedly there are all these Pats fans around the country. Ya right.
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 17, 2009 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny...
How much the Red Sox and Patriots have in common.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why you have to start liking a team before they win a WS. Go Caps!
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Revenue Sharing will piss you off
I was reading about this the other day:
Should make you kinda mad when you realize some teams get 80 million in revenue sharing before even selling a single ticket. I would be shocked if more than 1-2 teams in MLB were actually losing revenue.
However…
We are still in a recession, so I wouldn’t expect any payroll increases any time soon.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can agree with this
I get accused of being a Yankee fan for it, but I have no objections to a little bit of free-spending. It’s certainly easy when it’s not our money…
I’ve said ad-nauseum all my gripes about attendance, but the bottom line is that in the end, all I care about, and all most sports fans care about, is winning. And if winning costs more money than other teams are spending, why not do it? There are still so few cinderellas out there that make people go “Now that’s a true champion, they did it with talent, scouting, and fundamentals,” to where it’s still the exception and not the mean, because in that end, it’s still a crap-shoot luck-fest.
I’d be ecstatic if Ted Turner took the reigns of the team again, and made the Braves the Yankees of the National League again. Say what you want about the millions he unloaded to get talent, Ted Turner really did give a turd about, winning. And you have to admire that.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on Dec 17, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard Ted say that he “wants to” take the reigns in an interview. This was last year.
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 17, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but Ted doesn't have the money anymore.
Another thing Ted acknowledged. His deal with Time Warner (mostly in stock) and subsequent acquisition by AOL just killed him financially.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re making a few generalizations here that aren’t really accurate at all.
1.) Atlanta has a big metro market, therefore they should be making way more money/have higher attendance than they do.
True, but Atlanta has rush hour traffic from hell; it is full of transplants from other areas of the country, and the Ted is located in a pretty terrible area for people who live in the north of the metro area (and the 7:00 starts are bogus).
Having a big metro market, as you illustrated by your Marlins example, doesn’t necessarily translate into higher attendance. The logistics, history, and demographics of the area are the really important factors.
And the Red Sox and Yankees spend out of their mind because they own their own cable networks and generate huge revenues from them. Back when Uncle Ted owned the Braves and TBS was broadcasting our games across the country, the Braves were consistently in the top 5 in the league in payroll. And we were winning all the time. And our attendance was damn good. Exposure + winning = ballin’.
Now we would have to debate about what is the Braves true draw since the Braves have a virtual lock on fandom in the entire Southeastern U.S. outside of Florida.
I don’t agree with this statement at all. There are tons of bandwagon fans out there… especially amongst people who grow up without a local team to root for (or in Atlanta’s case, with parents who grew up rooting for different teams). The Boston Red Sox fan phenomenon that has crept up across the Southeast in the last 5-8 years is not a coincidence. Fairweather fans will root for whoever is winning and getting the most exposure. The fact that the Braves are based in Atlanta does not predispose baseball fans in the Southeast to root for them more than anyone else, IMO.
All of that said, however, I, too, would like Liberty Media to sell us to a owner with a face.
by get swoll yunel on Dec 17, 2009 12:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever noticed the large amount of Cubs fans in the Atlanta area? Haha, but they have no cause for jumping on a bandwagon… I’m still confused about that one.
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What? Im not sure where this makes any sense. I mean, it does, but that isnt the Braves and never has been. Besides what you propose is just bad business from a Braves standpoint. Not to mention, you, in a roundabout fashion, claiming Lowe to be a draw of some sort is completely insane.
What im saying is, the Braves are in a very enviable position for any team operating with a similar “budget”. From the rotation, to the productive lineup, to prospects, to the future, the Braves are a week from the playoffs operating at an avg of 90-100 million. We are fielding a team that can not only play, but also compete and dominate in stretches. This while turning over the final Scherhultz years and rebuilding a nucleus is pretty damn impressive IMO.
Sure, Id love to spend more money, but why not make the playoffs first and use that added revenue before we starting spending money on aging talent. If this was any other division outside of the AL East, id be arguing that the Braves should be spending less money.
I think people need to step back and look at where this franchise has been, went to, and is back at and understand that theyre about to drop a young controllable nucleus on the league in a matter of five years of downtime. That makes anyone outside of the nucleus expendable until we win and they prove theyre worth. Thats not just baseball, that life my friend. You spend more money when you make more money. The Braves were able to spend during that record stretch because we were winning at an insane clip. People were attending games, not because of Mcgriff, not because of Justice, Sheffield, Millwood, Rocker, well maybe Rocker, but because we were consistently a playoff team.
Have some patience and faith, because with a few playoff appearances in a few years we are going to be forced to push that plus 100 million salary to where the Red Sox, Mets and now the Phils sit. The yankees game is for the birds… ie females and fairweather fans.
by aRC on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would blame Time Warner for screwing us over by lowering the budget to meager levels before I blame Liberty Media. I do agree with your feelings about corporations owning teams.
by Walker Wallace on Dec 17, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
More people would go to the games if they implemented a shuttle service.
"SIGN PUJOLS OR FIRE WREN" ~ Swo12bv
by Smoltz's Beard on Dec 17, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously. ME AND LIKE 20 OF MY FRIENDS HAVE TO PARK LIKE 5 BLOCKS AWAY AND WALK !!!!1
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish that were true...
…but it wasn’t, at least not the whole time during our great run. I was once at Turner Field with a crowd of about 25,000 for a first round play-off game. That was pathetic. Atlanta is not a baseball town and that sucks.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a good point that future Free Agents will look on what is happening now with Lowe and won’t consider signing with the Braves without a NTC.
It doesn’t matter how much money you make, nobody likes being forced to relocate so quickly.
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And then we won't sign any free agents.
Because we don’t give no trade clauses, period.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t hear Cliff Lee complaining.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From everything I have read...
…I don’t think Lee wanted to stay in Philly anyway.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
About what? He was traded for, not recruited and signed. He has 1 year left on his deal and was offered a big extension that he turned down because he wanted to test the market.
The situations are nothing alike.
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Other than the fact that he is a high-profile pitcher who was traded less than a year after arriving to a new team, sure.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, as long as you ignore the circumstances of the two situations, they start to look very similar.
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cliff Lee is about to be a free agent...
not just signed as one.
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 17, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I wake up tomorrow morning
to see DLowe is on the verge of being traded. Kinda like the Billy Wagner signing…just a litlle early morning surprise!
In Frank Wren I trust.
by mvhsbball on Dec 17, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Which is more likely?
Wake up to find DLowe being traded
Or
Wake up to find the 15th mistress to come forward about Tiger Woods is actually a dude
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you hear the one about Tiger Woods sitting on Santa's lap?
Santa said, “Ho! Ho! Ho!”
Tiger said, “Where? Where? Where?”
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 17, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I may be in the minority
but I actually agree with Derek Lowe on this one. I don’t have a problem with what he said at all.
It is akin to a company hiring someone away from another company, signing a 4 year agreement, and then shipping them off to the branch in Alaska after a year. It sucks. They shouldn’t do it. It isn’t right, and each one of us would complain like hell if it happened to us.
I don’t take any offense as a fan of the Braves to what he said (unlike Smoltz), and nobody but FW made FW sign him to a 4 year deal. It is unheard of to do it, and I’m certain that, if Lowe knew this was in the plans, he would have never agreed to come here… just like each and every one of us would do the same.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 12:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If my company was paying me $15M per year, I wouldn’t care where they wanted me to work.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Because I sure as heck would. If I had the choice of making a little less money and living in, say, New York, and I took more money to come to Atlanta and was lead to believe it would be for 4 years under contract, but, less than a year later they moved me to Detroit or Seattle or even California, I’d be pissed.
Only because we had an agreement.
Take the amount of money out of it, put Lowe has a manager of a Hardees, and see if he doesn’t have a right to be a little ticked off about it. Maybe not to the point of burning a bridge, but definitely enough to be miffed about it, ESPECIALLY after the way we recruited him to come take this job.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh...
I can’t feel bad for Lowe too much. Money does matter at least a little bit. Some people are forced to transfer jobs to different cities maybe to make 10,000 dollars more a year to feed their kids. Lowe gets 15 million a year to pitch once every 5 days for 8 months out of the year.
Plus, Lowe has to know what kind of business he went to – a business where he could be moved at any time.
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but you’re probably not in a line of work where you’ve been making multiple millions each year for most of the last decade, and had other multi-million $ job offers on the table when you chose your current employer when they made a huge push to recruit you and bring you in.
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe is the one that turned down lesser offers for another guaranteed year. He was the one who was pushing for a large contract…now, that 4th year and that large contract are what is causing him to be packing his bags – I fail to see how is ambition is Atlanta’s fault.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perspective
And just who’s ambition now is it that we are trying to fill by trading Lowe?
Noboby made them give me a four-year, $60 million contract. There wasn’t a ransom or anybody holding a gun to their heads. It was a negotiation and that’s what they viewed as fair.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he was the best pitcher available at the time. In a way, he forced them to give him a large contract. I can’t blame him, as I would do the same thing.
However, he needs to realize that he no longer holds the leverage. Atlanta is trying to put together the best team possible, and Derek Lowe does not fit into those plans. It is a business, not a hunting club.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So he forced them into giving him a contract that they didn't intend to honor because he was the best available?
Geez.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No. He got the most that he could…now, that is biting him.
If he had signed for, say $10M, he would probably not be the odd man out.
He wanted the extra money and the extra years, and now he doesn’t fit into Atlanta’s budget.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
He had much better offers than 10M per year on the table. Atlanta knew their budget, and about Huddy’s extension, loooooong before making him an offer.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Braves will honor the contract.
If we tried not to honor it, the MLBPA would eat us for lunch. While other similar contracts do require the team not to trade the player, this one did not. Trading Lowe is in no way failing to honor the contract.
I get Lowe’s frustration—-it must be hard to think about getting geared up for next season when you don’t even know what team you will be on. I am not bothered by Lowe’s comments. On the other hand, I don’t feel like the Braves are screwing him either. Just let him vent and move on.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, you just fail to understand why a guy is miffed that he’s being turned around and dealt a year after the team was bending over backwards and offering him everything he wanted so he would agree to sign with him and move to their city.
Saying, “Well if I got $15 MM a year from my company,” ignores the reality that $15 MM a year is life changing money for someone like me or (I assume) you, for a guy like Lowe it was just a pretty nice raise.
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have never seen people get so defensive over a player being traded before…I am truly baffled here.
Lowe is a baseball player. He willingly signed a contract, knowing that the Braves had other pitchers in the picture (see what I did there?) without a “no-trade” clause.
When you sign a contract and are the highest paid pitcher on a team, and are arguably the least productive pitcher on said team, it should not be offensive or a surprise when that team wants to move you and your expensive contract to fill other needs.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to admit, regardless of the money, if you were hired by one company, then, after a year told you suck and you make to much money and that they were sending you to work for another company, you’d be a little frustrated and upset.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not if all I cared about was the money.
If my performace was not as good as my cheaper peer’s, I would have no ground to stand on.
Sure, the guy is upset, but that doesn’t mean he is right.
He has a right to be upset, just like Atlanta has a right to trade him. It is the ugly side of baseball business.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re just not gonna admit you have human feelings and emotions…cool…cool…
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 3:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Spock says:
Emotions are for pu$$ies
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 17, 2009 7:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If my goal in joining a company was to be close to family and live in a specific city, it would affect me emotionally if they told me I had to leave.
If my goal was to get the largest contract possible when I signed on, I wouldn’t really care where they relocated me as long as I still got paid.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re making a lot of assumptions about the personal goals of a man (I’m guessing) you’ve never met.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they are assumptions, but one would have to be fairly stubborn to say that they are not reasonable assumptions.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve been stubborn in ignoring that he’s a human being with feelings, how is that different?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe had the upper-hand when coming to terms with the FO. He demanded as much money and as many years as he could get. The guy obviously cares about the money. If he wanted to play in Atlanta so badly, why demand so much? And furthermore, he let it bite him in the tail when he performed so poorly (as I stated above). Earn your keep.
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Poorly?
Tied for 4th in the league in wins, tied for first in the league in games started, 23rd in the league in innings pitched. These are things that someone who pitched “poorly” could say. If you want to say he wasn’t the ace, that’s fair, he wasn’t, but don’t confuse yourself, he didn’t pitch poorly.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 18, 2009 4:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, I can hear your point there. But when you take a look at his losses, twice he gave up 11 runs, one game was 9 runs, etc, etc. I think Lowe was lucky that he got run support. We all know how many games Jair and Javy should have won had they had run support. Five of Jurrgen’s ten losses came from 1-2 run loss games. A couple of his games, the offensive put zero runs on the board. Similarly, six of Javy’s ten losses were 1 or 2 run loss games. The offense couldn’t come through. Only three of Lowe’s ten losses were by 1 or 2 runs. The W-L record doesn’t show the pitcher’s true value. It’s a combination of the pitcher and whoever else decided to show up on the field that day to earn the win.
I don’t think the number of games started really influences my opinion on his value. Obviously you would say, well if a pitcher wasn’t valuable to a team, why would he continue to start? Personally, my answer would be that I’m not paying him $15M to sit out a couple of his starts.
My points aren’t very good ones. Haha, but while I recognize that Lowe wasn’t among the worst starters, his performance does not reflect his paycheck. And while looking at the ratio of how much he’s worth to how much he made, he was a poor performer.
by Gage23 on Dec 18, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, now we’re on more reasonable footing. I’d completely agree he didn’t live up to his paycheck. Heck, if you look at Fangraphs they have him being worth 12 million, which is 3 less than what he got paid, so he definitely underperformed his contract. I just wasn’t willing to admit he pitched poorly. He still could have been the ace for several teams in the league. Heck, the Natinals would have salivated over having a guy to throw out there every 5 days.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 18, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
tied for first in the league in games started, 23rd in the league in innings pitched
Isn’t this pretty damning in and of itself?
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
15 game winner
is not the least productive pitcher on our team. He led the team in wins, which was what he was hired to do.
Besides, TIM HUDSON was the most expensive person on our team, and he didn’t contribute shit. Why aren’t we trying to move him?
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hudson didn’t cost as much as Lowe, and if JJ or Vaz had the run support that Lowe did, they would lead the team in wins.
Wins are not an indicator of a pitchers success.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oohhhhh, not so fast, my friend!
Lowe was brought on to be the team’s “ace”, and he lead the team in wins. Scott Boras would so argue with you. I won’t, because I happen to agree that wins aren’t indicative, but I guarantee that some feel he fulfilled the role that he was brought on board to do.
RK PLAYER SALARY (US$)
1 Tim Hudson 15,500,000
2 Derek Lowe 15,000,000
3 Javier Vazquez 11,500,000
4 Chipper Jones 10,000,000
Tim Hudson had 2 wins. Lowe had 15. Tim Hudson was the least productive pitcher on our staff, period, because he only appeared in 7 games.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t hate on Huddy cuz he got hurt pitching, hate on Hampton cuz he got hurt in a hot tub!
"Sometimes I wonder what'd it be like to be outside and not hear the birds chirping...I think it'd be kind of nice."
by alligatorimpersonator on Dec 17, 2009 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hampton could break a neck while brushing his teeth.
If his post-menopausal osteoporosis is that bad, he really needs to visit a doctor.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 2:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that brings up another point…did Lowe pitch like an Ace this past season?
Now who isn’t living up to their end of the deal?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At times, yes
And, at times, no.
He led the team in wins, so, yeah, some people would say that he was the ace of our staff.
I don’t happen to be one of those people, but an argument could definitely be made either way.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Dec 17, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Justin, how old are you? To some of us older guys it may just “be business” but maybe we see things from a different perspective, Mr. Lowe is a PERSON so don’t be irked that he takes it “personal.” I think he has a perfectly legitimate reason to be pissed. That being said, has there been any talk from any Official Braves spokesman about trading Lowe, if not, it’s all just speculation. Is it just me or am I the not the only one with insomnia tonight.
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
by jimmontg on Dec 17, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
clown will eat me….
"My God! Good news fans, the Braves are showing signs of life for the first time in weeks. As a matter of fact, they appear to be beating the crap out of each other."
by bravos1984 on Dec 17, 2009 7:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not old. I am only 24.
Mr. Lowe is a person – a person who wants to make money. He isn’t a native Atlanta resident. He doesn’t have any ties to Atlanta other than that’s where his paycheck comes from.
I think he is getting his feeling hurt that he isn’t the best pitcher on the team, even though he is getting paid like it.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
People here are saying that the guy needs to “shut his mouth” and “stop being a baby” because he’s expressing some displeasure and regret over being shipped out so soon after coming to Atlanta.
Myself and a few others are just saying that it’s understandable that he’s not happy about it.
Apparently baseball players are supposed to be cold and emotionally detached about the things that happen in their lives.
Excepting of course, when they’re supposed to get all emotional and take a hometown discount, or turn down arbitration because it’s better for the team..
by Lennox on Dec 17, 2009 2:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"…aren’t worthy enough to hold his (Pujols) ass cheeks apart while Playboy models wipe him with thousand dollar bills after he craps out the cure to whatever previously-incurable disease." by royhobbs 1/7/09
by buzzdeadwax on Dec 17, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe will get paid…. by somebody. If you wanna feel bad for somebody, then save the sympathy for guys like Ryan Church or Kelly Johnson or any of the other non-tendered players who have talent, but nothing guaranteed at all right now… the victims of being a bad fit at the wrong time.
by carpengui on Dec 17, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the Braves would sign Kelly Johnson for a lower salary if no one signs him. As for Church, he got screwed when Soriano accepted arbitration. Has anyone shown interest in either?
by Walker Wallace on Dec 17, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah a couple of minor rumors… but I expect it will be January before they get serious bites.
by carpengui on Dec 17, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In other news, Greg White had a top-10 play tonight on SportsCenter….ironically, it was a walk-off HR.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 2:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That’s my boy.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Dec 17, 2009 2:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have never even considered going there if I knew that ultimately this was going to happen.
Likewise the Braves would never have signed you if they had known you would suck. This won’t have any effect on the Braves signing premier free agents because they don’t even try to do that and the Yanks and Sawx sign them all up anyway. In hindsight spending $16 million/year on a pitcher in his late 30s was pretty dumb for a team with a $90 million payroll. I doubt the Braves are going to make that mistake again anytime soon.
by redwards95 on Dec 17, 2009 7:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we signed Burnett, Lowe wouldn’t be a Brave. He was pretty much all that was left to be our ace pitcher since Wren rightfully sought after pitching last offseason. This offseason he’s looking for a big bat to make our offense better. He should know that and understand that we have 6 decent SP and only need 5. We also have a budget. If we didn’t like the Yanks, then 1 of those SP would go to the bullpen. Kawakami would be the most likely unless Lowe was willing to be a set-up guy again. I really wish we had an owner like Ted Turner instead of Liberty Media.
by Walker Wallace on Dec 17, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting thread.
The Braves seem to me to be a crossroads with some serious questions staring them down:
What are the realistic chances of moving Lowe in the short, mid or long term?
How much patience is the team prepared to exercise when other trading pieces (namely, Vasquez and appealing prospects) are more in demand and an urgent need exists to bring offensive production on board?
Who are the top three or four targets at 1B or corner OF who we could realistically obtain via free agency or trade?
What time factors exist as to those targets’ availability?
I’m guessing FW is feeling great pressure to pull the trigger on a deal pretty quickly, but hoping like crazy that if Lowe can’t be moved, he stands pat or makes only small, low dollar tweaks (e.g., Gomes and/or Garko), rather than trading Javy or giving up the farm.
An eventual straight dump of Lowe – even with millions a year being eaten – would give us critical flexibility down the road when we may have better options and more leverage.
by fandave on Dec 17, 2009 8:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
OH NO!
First KJ’s wife and now Lowe’s?!?! Mass exodus of hawt Braves WAGs.
I hope we trade him to K.C or Baltimore. Would serve him right for being such a baby about the situation.
by Fatvirus on Dec 17, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good - his words guarantee his exit
.. and we’ll be free of an enormous salary obligation which will certainly hold us back from competing in 2010, 2011, and 2012.
I’m not saying we’ll have to accept nothing in return since Lowe is the most established quality starter, ground ball pitcher, and post-season winner on the market now that Lackey, Lee, and Halladay are gone.
But in the end giving him (and his full contract) away for a nothing or something like a useful older minor leaguer would be fine with me.
And I’m not one of these crazy fools who is already squandering that $15 million on another player. Don’t forget, we took on Hudson’s $9 million onto our budget for starting pitchers. I’d be perfectly happy to see Lowe’s salary used for player development, extensions for players under team control, and bargain hunting for a 1B-3B or LF type of player who can transition to Freeman and/or spell/succeed Chipper and/or platoon with Diaz in left.
by JimK on Dec 17, 2009 12:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Or perhaps...
…play right field for a couple of months?
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
We should trade Vazquez to the Angels for Brandon Wood, Erick Aybar, and Saunders or supplement Wood with someone else.
We should trade Lowe to Whomever for mid level prospects even if it’s the Mets.
We should sign Holliday for 15mil/5 years with vesting option for 2 years
Sign Ben Sheets to 4-7 million dollar deal.
Trade McClouth Next Year
Aybar
Prado
Chipper
Holliday
McCann
Escobar
McClouth
Diaz
Ross
Wood
Infante
Hudson
Sheets
JJ
Hanson
Saunders
Kawakami
Wagner
Saito
Moylan
O Flat
Medlen
Acosta
whomever
whomever
Plus we have 5 million to fill in our bench roles.
Plus you have Wood to replace Chipper or backup at 1B for Prado
Plus you can move McClouth next year if Heyward and Schafer are moving up.
Sell them both and move on.
by Charmin519 on Dec 17, 2009 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sheets is looking for a multi-year deal.
Trading Lowe and Vaz greatly weakens our rotation – even with Sheets.
Holliday is looking for $20+M and already refused a $17-18M contract from the Cardinals.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheets isn’t getting a multi year GUARANTEED contract.
Saunders and Sheets would supplement most of that loss and we would be young and controllable for years to come.
Holliday’s REPORTED DEAL hasn’t been confirmed what so ever and many are now speculating that it’s in line with Bays offers on the table. NOT ONE CONFIRMATION OF HOLLIDAYS DEAL.
Vazquez does have a no trade clause but we could approach him as it’s not like were shipping him to the royals.
You can’t argue that having
Heyward
Schafer
Aybar
Saunders
JJ
Hanson
Escobar
Wood
Freeman
wouldn’t spell awesome team at a cost controlled level. Imagine the possibilities with this.
by Charmin519 on Dec 17, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm frustrated
Ignore my rant. I hope FW has something up his sleeve because the FA market is moving rather quickly these days.
by Charmin519 on Dec 17, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol…sorry. I already responded.
Just be patient. Good things come to those who wait.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the lineup would be pretty good. So would a lineup with A-Gon, Fielder, Braun, Chipper, McCann, Utley, Hamilton and Escobar, but that isn’t going to happen either.
Besides, trading away two workhorses in Vaz and Lowe and turning around and counting on an injury waitint to happen in Sheets, Hanson, JJ, KK and Huddy just doesn’t seem smart. Huddy will have his durability questions, as will KK and Hanson.
We need at least 1 guaranteed workhorse in the rotation. Vaz should be extended, not traded.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"You can’t argue that having wouldn’t spell awesome team at a cost controlled level. Imagine the possibilities with this."
I could. Heyward is going to be 20 coming into next season. An above average season for that age is nearly unprecedented and a lot ot expect. I do think he will be great down the line.
We don’t know if Schafer is ready, how much was the injury last year, etc. Saunders isn’t that good. Jurrjens is good but he will be down next year. He had a lot of luck last year. Freeman isn’t ready. Escobar is good but I wonder if if his performance will catch up with his ego.
by jerryclore on Dec 18, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Sheets was looking for a 1 year deal.
by Salty on Dec 18, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to rosterbate
But honestly……….. we should move both. Give the Angels what they want in Vazquez and ask for the same in return that they were offering for Halladay. Vazquez cost less. I understand that Vazquez has the no trade to the west but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t want to go to a championship calibar team.
by Charmin519 on Dec 17, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the problem here is:
1. Vazquez has a no-trade clause prohibiting a trade to a west coast team.
2. Saunders really isn’t that good. His only really good season was 2008 and that was based on an incredibly low .268 BABIP against. His tRA’s and xFIP’s are not special. He is okay, but nothing more than that.
3. Your suggested lineup doesn’t include a first baseman; playing Prado or Aybar there is a bit of a waste; we can get better offense out of a true first baseman free agent without having to trade Vazquez.
4. While we don’t know exactly what Holliday has been offered, he will get more than 5 years at $15 million per year. The Mets would beat that offer for one, and the Cardinals probably would, too.
5. Sheets has asked for $12 million for one year. He won’t get it, but he’ll probably get more than $4-7 million. Besides, what is the point in paying him that much, even if we could get him for that price, just to have him spend most of the season on the DL, as usual.
Other than that, the plan looks good. ;)
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, did you forget Vasquez has a no trade clause to West teams like the Angels? That ain’t happening.
by Walker Wallace on Dec 17, 2009 12:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think I should clarify something: I don’t dislike Lowe. I think he is a great guy and a great player. I was a little out of line when I said he thinks he is too good to be traded.
I still think he should shut up about it though. He is really making himself look childish by complaining about this. The Braves weren’t complaining when they had to give him $15M and a guaranteed 4th year last offseason. It is all a financial game and part of the business of baseball. If he can’t see that, he needs to open his eyes.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 17, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’s not doing himself any good saying the things he said in gondee’s article here. It could also have a negative effect on him, too. Hold his tongue and understand why the team who has a budget and wants to move a player to try and make the team better. Don’t say something you may regret later on.
by Walker Wallace on Dec 17, 2009 12:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We signed Mitch Jones! Our problems are solved!
-Yellow Jackets, Braves, Falcons, Hawks, and Thrashers fan!
by ChrisK562 on Dec 17, 2009 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
6th best SP
Lowe isn’t on the outs because he’s the least cost effective. Lowe is on the outs because he’s the 6th best SP when not considering cost. Add that he has a good career history, then Lowe is on the trading block as desirable excess. His salary reduces what we can get in return, but doesn’t change his status as the number 1 trading asset.
by Drom John on Dec 17, 2009 4:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Too bad when you’re in the baseball business you have to consider costs.
by Gage23 on Dec 17, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean he's the most desirable tradeee from our end.
That doesn’t mean he’s the most valuable asset in terms of the desire for other teams to acquire him.
Overheard in press box, from local reporter: 'If this Moore kid was any good, they'd be up 31-0 right now.'
--Darin Gantt, on CAR@NE
by MichaelProcton on Dec 21, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good arguments have been made
on both sides of this issue. I think Lowe expressing a desire not to be traded & to stay w/the Braves speaks highly of both the Braves & Lowe. At the beginning of the season it may have been a buisness transaction. But as the season progressed bonds were formed and the guy probably likes being a Brave. He’s not blind. He sees the potential of this team & he wants to be a part. He sees a winner. That speaks highly of the Braves. They project themselves as a winning organization that you want to be a part of. It also speaks highly of Lowe in the fact that I don’t think it’s only about the money w/him. If it was he wouldn’t give a crap where he ended up as long as he got paid. His statements suggest he wants to be a Brave. In the end the buisness side of things will win out. If the FO is not in open dialogue w/Lowe then they should be. Breaking up w/the Braves always seems hard to do (Glavine, Smoltz, & now Lowe). I think its because after you play for this team you just want to stay. And I think thats a good thing.
by adc62 on Dec 17, 2009 7:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
I think both sides are right here. Lowe is frustrated and doesn’t want to leave, but the reality of the situation is that we need to move him. No harm no foul on either side to me.
by cavebird on Dec 17, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
salient
it doesn’t mean what you think it means, editor
by jerryclore on Dec 18, 2009 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
–adjective
1. prominent or conspicuous: salient traits.
2. projecting or pointing outward: a salient angle.
3. leaping or jumping: a salient animal.
4. Heraldry. (of a beast) represented as leaping: a lion salient.
Tigers love pepper; they hate cinnamon.
by Jareth Cutestory on Dec 18, 2009 8:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and
none of those make any sense with respect to this sentence: “Lowe has some salient points, and the Braves decision to possibly trade Lowe may have some longer and more serious implications.” I think he thinks it means important or containing some truth.
by jerryclore on Dec 18, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
you have a salient point.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 18, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
if you are referring to it being buried among 200 comments then you are the first person to use it correctly here.
by jerryclore on Dec 18, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't read all the comments here...
due to time constraints, but have a read a few here and there, and I’m sure I’m probably echoing what someone else has said.
I understand how D-Lowe feels. His points are valid, and I would probably feel slighted and angry as well, if I were him. As a female, I am all too familiar with the scenario of being pursued and wooed and obtained, only to be dropped like a hot rock when someone “better” comes along. (Bitterness alert!) Also, like the poster above, I agree that a lot of players do seem to have a hard time leaving the Braves organization. Like him, I see that as a good thing, in that players like playing here, and seem to like living here.
The opposite side of the coin is that when players do something in their own best interest, and the fans are upset, we are expected to realize that it’s “not personal” and “baseball is a business”, blah, blah, blah. Which for the most part, we do. Sure, we may complain to each other, either in person, or via blogs like this one.
The biggest difference? We as fans don’t have a national platform, like ESPN or MLB Network, with tons of reporters willing to print our every whine and cry. As I said above, I can understand Lowe being upset, and he should tell his wife, and his buddies, and his dog, and his therapist all about it. Heck, set up a profile on Talking Chop and give Frank Wren hell about it. What he shouldn’t do is whine about it to the press. That is, in my opinion, unprofessional. I loved John Smoltz with the white hot heat of a thousand suns. However, he kept running his mouth enough to finally kill that. Now, he’s still one of my favorite Braves, due to his contributions to the team, but fan-wise…I can take him or leave him.
So, Derek, I feel your pain, man. I like you. I think you are a good pitcher, and I might not even trade you, if it were up to me. But it’s not up to me. Also, obviously, it’s not up to you. So suck it up. Nobody likes a whiner.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Dec 18, 2009 11:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Small Twitter account creates big drama in White Sox camp
- John Danks sticks with the script — no matter the consequence
- Spring Snapshot: Will fresh faces produce a White Sox winner?
- Vin Scully OK after tumble but scares bejeezus out of everybody
- Musical interlude: Gordon Beckham and Jake Peavy 'Take It Easy'
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
