Braves Offer Arbitration to Relievers Gonzalez and Soriano
by gondeee on Dec 1, 2009 6:23 PM EST
in Braves Related Free Agents
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PrintIn a move that many expected, the Atlanta Braves have offered salary arbitration to their two closers from last year, Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. The two now have a couple of weeks to accept of decline the offer of arbitration. If either player signs with another team the Braves will receive the other team's first or second round pick as well as a supplemental pick between the first and second rounds of next summer's draft.
The Braves declined to offer arbitration to first baseman Adam LaRoche and left fielder Garret Anderson. The LaRoche decision is surprising as it leaves Atlanta without a fall-back option at first base should they not land another free agent or player via trade, but he may have made as much as $10 million in an arbitration decision, so the team likely could not have afforded to let him re-sign.
Gonzalez and Soriano, meanwhile, would likely cost much less than $10 million if they accept arbitration, but it is thought that they will find plenty of bidders for their services on the free agent market. It was thought that the Braves would try to re-sign at least one of the relievers, believed to be Gonzalez, but that was before he retained Scott Boras as his new agent. It is now viewed that both relievers are out of the range of what the Braves would be willing to offer in terms of years on a contract and money per year.
This decision also allows the Braves to seek two type-A free agents of their own without the risk of any net loss in high-round draft picks next year.
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Another strong decision by Frank Wren and the decision to not offer arbitration to LaRoche leads me to believe they’re either close to an agreement or the braves have plans in place already, offering seemed like a last ditch effort. You can argue that it would have been smart but as it was said paying LaRoche in the neighborhood of 10 million just doesn’t make sense for a team on a budget. Just be happy that we did not cop out on the relievers and get scared they would accept, and as a result we will gain 4 more picks if and when they decline
by McCann's the Man on Dec 1, 2009 6:29 PM EST reply actions
I’m wondering if this isn’t a budgetary issue. Could our front office have been worried about having to pay signing bonus’ to potentially 3 first round and 3 supplemental round draft choices?
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
I’m quite positive there would be some serious repercussions if the Braves drafted a player and failed to offer him a contract, especially a first or supplemental round pick. My guess is they would be forced to at least make an offer and just like Arb offers you run the risk of the player accepting. Obviously this is just a theory but outside of not wanting to be shackled with Laroche’s 2010 salary, in the off chance he does accept, I’m having a hard time finding a reason not to offer Arb.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
There’s no minimum signing bonus, MLB couldn’t do anything to stop a team from not making an offer, any more than they can step in and force the Marlins to spend more of their revenue sharing money.
or you just low ball the offer. if they accept you got a player on the cheap...
if not, you don’t spend the money you didn’t want to spend anyway
if its a budgetary reason
its most likely the regular season budget and the fact that they didnt want to risk paying LaRoche 10+mil
by drumzalicious on Dec 2, 2009 3:50 AM EST up reply actions
But you don’t have to pay them 10 million.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
and the chances LaRoche delayed his free agency...
to accept arb for say 10 mil, instead of a 3 or 4 year deal guaranteeing at least twice more, if not triple? I guess I just had less expectation of him accepting than Wren.
Not to be rude, because I do respect your opinion, but they pay Wren to have intimate knowledge of what LaRoche will do.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
I understand that and probably should have put that in there
and it didn’t come across as rude. Just saying that the apparent expectation he would accept arb surprised me, considering he’d be the best 1B on the market and likely to get multiple years at $20+ guaranteed.
Yeah, it surprised me, but since the rule change means they can keep negotiating, I guess it’s a solid way of protecting yourself. The only upside to offering him arbitration is that if he signed somewhere else the Braves would get a supplemental pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds, which maybe isn’t worth having to pay him more than you want.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
but would arb really give him that much more...
in one year than we are proposing for say 2 or 3? I guess so if Wren declined to go that safe route.
meaning would arb give him more...
than we would in the first year of a 2 or 3 year deal, not over the entirety of a multi-year deal.
I don’t know the answer honestly. He made a little over 7 million last year I think, so he’d be sure to get a raise, either through arbitration or a free agent contract.
I think another side of things, which maybe isn’t very pertinent to this part of the discussion, is that they don’t want to go more than one year for him.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
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I think that would be pertinent to the discussion...
if all you wanted was a one year deal, that is exactly what arbitration gets you.
But we’ve talked about this enough, what’s done is done.
Plans in place? This comment today suggests Bowman may think so:
[B]efore next week’s Winter Meetings begin, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wren make a trade, and by that, I mean one more significant than the one that could involve Kelly Johnson.
So, either we have already negotiated a 2 year deal with Adam, or we have a trade in place to land that 1B “Bat” that we have all been wetdreaming about.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:30 PM EST reply actions
So either way, we’re in pretty good shape, huh?
"Dum spiro spero"
by Bravely going forward on Dec 1, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'm guessing the former
For some reason it just seems like LaRoche likes it here, and may take the hallowed “hometown discount”
I’m fairly certain that if a team doesn’t offer their own player arbitration they can’t resign him until May 1st. So, if the Braves were working on a deal with LaRoche, they’d just go a head an offer arbitration, since it wouldn’t mean anything. I’m fairly certain this means he won’t be playing for Atlanta next year.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Does that apply to free agents, or is that the rule for arb-eligible team controlled players, who become free agents when not offered arb?
I really don’t know. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t, because you see guys get non-tendered then sign as a minor league free agent.
Also, I’m not 100% sure I’m right about the first thing, but I’ll find out.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
FWIW
Tracy Ringolsby talks about the new guidelines in some Rockies related stuff here. Looks like there was a change at some point.
Yeah, as soon as you said something about it I realized you were right. So I was wrong, the Braves can bring LaRoche back, which is much better. It was a good rule change. Thanks for correcting me.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
That was the old rule.
It was changed in the current CBA. Prior to 2003 or 2001 or whenever, not offering arbitration pretty much killed any chance of signing.
Having a deal in place with LaRoche doesn't mean we can't offer arb...
and still complete the deal anyway.
In related news, the Yanks didn’t offer arbitration to Damon…does anyone think he may be an option? I have no idea what the market on someone like Damon would be this year, but it can’t be too great, right?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:32 PM EST reply actions
I would not want to see Damon in Atlanta next year. His numbers were greatly inflated playing at Yankee stadium last year and his defense is bad.
He has always put up good numbers. He would look pretty spectacular at the top of our order.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
his power numbers were but he’s still a very solid top of the order hitter albeit little power at other stadiums. not sure he’d be my favorite option but at 5 million or so he’d make a great deal of sense
by McCann's the Man on Dec 1, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
but, it is that whole 3-4 years with Boras representing him thing that kinda worries me…I don’t think he can produce at an above-average level for 3-4 more years, and I certainly don’t want to pay what Boras would want.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
If he’s still looking for a job when pitchers and catchers report, it might be time to swoop in. If he signs much earlier though it will be for a price that he will not be worth. Although jack’s right, playing at Coors East blew up his numbers and he is a terrible fielder, so even on the cheap he’s probably not a good idea.
Anyone is an upgrade over Garret Anderson’s defense…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
That goes without saying, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still try to sign someone with some semblance of defensive prowess rather than upgrading from piss-poor to bad.
Other than Cameron, who fits that description? Certainly not Dye. I just don’t see a plethora of good defensive players with a decent stick out there that could be had for cheap.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed on Dye, I’ve been mortified by that rumor ever since it started. Cameron’s the obvious choice, and I’m dying to see him get signed. The data may be irrelevant due to all his time missed due to injury, but if we were to take a flyer on a Xavier Nady comeback campaign the numbers show he’s been right around league average at the corner OF spots and 1B, usually with roughly a +/- 1-2 UZR. League average is a huge upgrade over GA, and a decent improvement over Damon. Rick Ankiel is another guy that is average or better at the corners, though whether he can pull out of the funk from last season is anyone’s guess and thus I wouldn’t consider him a top choice (though I’d keep him on the back burner).
Cameron’s gold glove material, and probably the only stellar defender out there. I’m just saying if we can find a guy that’s even league average with a decent stick he’s probably a better option that Damon.
And how!! Haha
HansonManCrush
by HansonManCrush on Dec 1, 2009 8:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So what?...
the tallest midget is still short. Garrett Anderson is not the level of defense you want to compare players to.
I’d rather be 3’10" than 3’2"
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 2, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
And I'd rather be 6'3....
point is, we shouldn’t use Garrett Anderson as a measuring stick for defensive OF same as we shouldn’t go with an OF simply because they can play it better than Chipper did. They won’t all be Andruw out there, but I’d like at least McLouth level.
Nobody is using Anderson as the standard. My only point is that anyone with better offense and defense than Anderson should be considered….we almost made it with Anderson in the field, so we can certainly absorb a defensive hit, provided the offensive return is pretty good.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 2, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, provided the offensive return of course...
but just don’t think Anderson’s play has any relevance. Gregor Blanco was better considering he was a worthless bat too, but at least could play D, and no one is clamoring for him in the lineup. We need to set our sights higher than simply being “better” than GA. There is an awful lot of bad that is still “better”.
Soriano and Gonzalez were offered arb. simply because we know that we’re not going to resign either one and want the picks off of them. LaRoche wasn’t offered because either the Braves are close to resigning him or they have already come to the conclusion that there is no way they can bring him back. Anderson wasn’t offered for obvious reasons.
Neither of those excuses you give for not offering LaRoche makes sense to me...
if he’s not coming back anyway, you offer and take the pick. If he is coming back, you offer to hedge the bet in case a better offer swoops in last minute and your supposed done deal goes awry (see Burnett, Furcal, among others).
The reason we didn't offer LaRoche arbitration is simple...
…we know he wants to play here and he might accept. We weren’t sure we could make the salary commitment with the Wagner signing obviously being imminent then and us having not traded Lowe.
I agree with what cavebird said below we were probably scared that he would accept and through arb. he would have made around $10M next year. His thinking is that he signs a 1 year deal and then hits the market next year when the economy is better.
Also none of know what Wren thinks of him. Maybe Wren didn’t want him back, not saying that’s true or anything but none of us know what he’s thinking.
Fair enough...
especially if he’s targeting say Glaus and Dye with the same money, which would in theory allow Dye to play 1B if Glaus can’t cut it, or play LF until JS/JH can take the job.
I wonder if this is a final decision…I mean, just because they haven’t offered him arbitration yet doesn’t mean that they still couldn’t, right?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 6:49 PM EST reply actions
Arbitration had to be submitted by noon today. It’s over.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
oh, I thought it was midnight…gracias for the clarification.
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
Fail
I stand corrected. Looks like the deadline is midnight, not sure where I got noon from.
You aren’t the czar of typographic emphasis
lol.
So, de nada for the clarification! :)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think there are enough posts about this
someone should make another one
Also, dont trade javier vazquez.
what sections haven’t been covered yet? We have the front page, a fanshot and a fanpost so far…
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
1st prize?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
two weds, an owange and a bwue.
Not first place.
EMAIL!!!
(are those enough hints that I get it?)
:)
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t been to that site in nearly 6 years…is it still going?
"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
damn
i wanted to see Roachy back, but not for $10mil so i guess this had to be done. i suppose i can still hold out in the hope that he could take a cheap 1 year deal to be a part of bobby’s last season
The Braves need both Raf and Gonzo. And I hope Raf and Gonzo know that.
Bobby Cox’s last year?!?!! Come on guys, let’s f’ing do this!
Somebody around here is more anal than the mom on 7th heaven. Freakin' A. lol
(self-appointed President of Yunel's Cartel~~~)
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Dec 1, 2009 7:44 PM EST reply actions
Arbitration to Gonzalez and Soriano
I agree with the decision to not offer arbitration to Laroche. The Braves realize that the guy is a poor risk at the beginning of the season and he would drag the whole team down like he did in Pittsburgh.
Come on, man.
LaRoche may struggle early, but he sets the world on fire in the 2nd half, more than making up for his lack of production early. I am highly disapointed that we probably aren’t bringing him back.
Also, does anyone else think that his ADD has something do do with his early-season struggles?
I think we need LaRoche back.
And Idon’t have the numbers in front of me, but I’ve looked in the past and LaRoche’s slow start is better than what we had out of Kotchman for most of the year
THIS
Not to mention the dearth of other FA 1B options. I’ve said it before, and I’m sure I’ll say it again several times before Christmas, but if you don’t look at LaRoche in a vacuum but consider all the options, unless Wren has something up his sleeve to bring in an A-Gon or a Prince Fielder, LaRoche is far and away the best option available, flaws and all.
It’s gonna suck when we stuck with Aubrey Huff or Nick Johnson and all the folks that were whining about Roachie’s slow start are suddenly pining to have him back, by virtue of he sucks less than who we end up with.
Whatta bout' Greg Norton
Really really wanted him back too
Him and Anderson make a great couple
Good deal Wren
At-least we are going to get some picks b/c neither player is going to accept arb and stay in ATL b/c they are both the tops of the careers and looking for the big contracts. THis will also help out with the Billy Wagner signing if that is the path we choose to go.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Dec 1, 2009 9:47 PM EST reply actions
Well, you just got your wish. They just signed him.
by paulyicecubes on Dec 2, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Man, this year’s draft could potentially be nuts. If we didn’t sign another team’s Type A (and I really hope we do) we’d end up with 5 picks between the 1st and supplemental round. That’s 5 in the first like 40 or so. Wow. If those guys were halfway decent they’d shut up all the nitwits who think we have a weak farm system.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Still, 4 in the top 40.
Who signs somebody at 1 in the morning? And Rosenthal has been pretty wrong lately. I really appreciate the heads up but I need some confirmation from other sources.
That aside I’ve always loved Billy Wagner, he’s a great guy and a great pitcher and I have always wanted to see him playing for his favorite team.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com
Yea
I’m with you on all points. Still haven’t seen it elsewhere – although it is kind of late on the east coast. Wonder what this does to the budget if either Gonzalez or Soriano accept arb. This kind of move I would have expected to wait until next week.
Wagner's nice
and as long as we get the picks for Soriano/Gonzo, I think this off-season has already been a success. Wager’s been a player, historically, and he’s got something left to prove. I think he’ll be lights out for us this year.
Plus, we recoup the picks for signing him when Soriano/Gonzo get signed for more money.
Now, if Wren could SOMEHOW parlay Lowe/KJ and a prospect for a legit outfield bat, I may want to kiss him.
This draft is going to be DEEP in terms of talent, and I think we should be able to draft 4 impact guys (most likely 3 of them HAVE to be positional talent) who will be in Atlanta in 2014.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Dec 2, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
More like 5 in the top 80, two in the top 40, none in the top 30
The idea that we’ll get first round picks for Gonzo or Soriano is not realistic, excpet maybe from the Yankees, which is almost the same as a supplemental pick (since it will be pick #30 in the first round). I don’t see any of the teams without protected picks likely signing them except the Yankees and Sox and the Sox will probably sign Holliday and knock us to Round 2.
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