Talking Chop: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: College Football Preseason Top 25 Rankings

Gonzalez And Soriano Highly Ranked By Elias

The deadline for teams to offer their own free agents arbitration is tomorrow and some have wondered if the Braves wouldn't be better off not offering arbitration to both of their Type A relievers, Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. The argument has been that if both players accepted the Braves would be hampered in their ability to acquire their other offseason needs by the salaries those two would command in arbitration, perhaps upwards of 8 million each, and that the benefit of offering them both arbitration, the 1st round draft picks that would be received as compensation if another team signed them, could be hindered if said team signed more than one Type A free agent, meaning the other free agent's former team could get the 1st round pick the Braves had been banking on, leaving them instead with a 2nd round pick.

Confused yet? Well, that's the MLB offseason for you. The scenario where the Braves could offer Gonzalez or Soriano arbitration and still not be compensated with a first round pick seems unlikely, at least according to the Elias rankings of the Type A free agents. The Elias rankings, which are also used to determine who is a Type A free agent in the first place, have Gonzalez as the 5th highest rated free agent, coming in behind Matt Holliday, Jose Valverde, Jason Bay, and Johnny Damon, and Soriano as 7th, with John Lackey between him and Gonzalez.

What this means is that the only way the Braves wouldn't recieve a first round draft pick if another team signed Gonzalez or Soraino (assuming the Braves had offered them arbitration) is if that same team signs a player ahead of them on the list. It's highly unlikely that any team that signs Valverde, another top reliever, would sign Gonzalez or Soriano, so he's not worth worrying about and the only teams with the likely funds to sign 2 of the top 7 free agents are the Red Sox and Yankees, so it's not worth worrying about Damon either, since he seems unlikely to return to Boston and his re-signing with New York wouldn't affect draft pick compensation at all.

Thus, the players worth being concerned about are Holliday and Bay, the two most attractive hitters on the open market, and Lackey, the best pitcher out there. While anything is possible, and this is a total hunch, Bay seems unlikely to go to New York and if he is re-signed by the Red Sox, a strong possiblity, he wouldn't affect compensation. The Red Sox are always in the market for starting pitching, but they seem ulikely to spend to sign Lackey, preferring to supplement their rotation with low risk/high reward alternatives, but New York appears to be a very likely landing spot for the big righty. Similarly, Holliday has been atttached in rumors to New York and even more so to Boston, so it seems plausible that he could sign with one of those teams, but his old team, the Cardinals, will make every effort to bring him back.

It seems likely that the only free agents who could keep the Braves from getting their 1st round draft pick compensation are Matt Holliday and John Lackey, and even then it would mean that a team had spent big on the free agent market, something the Red Sox seem disinclined to do and the Yankees, after their splurge last off season, might actually be unable to do.

0 recs  |  Comment 38 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

My head hurts.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 30, 2009 3:09 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

…oh no, I’ve gone crosseyed…

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol

i dont get it?

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 30, 2009 3:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It’s a quote from the first Austin Powers movie.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

ha its been a while since i’ve seen one of those movies

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 30, 2009 3:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

There’s nothing to worry about. Soriano and Gonzalez will have plenty of multi-year offers. There is no way they are accepting arbitration from the Braves. The Braves don’t need to worry about another Greg Maddux situation.

by redwards95 on Nov 30, 2009 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

Do not misunderestimate the Yankees’ willingness to spend like drunken sailors.

Both their new park and winning the WS had to have enhanced their bottomline. Also, continuing to put so much reliance on Mariano Rivera may been seen as a weakness to be addressed.

Here is the track record:

2009: $201,449,189
2008: $209,081,577
2007: $189,639,045
2006: $194,663,079
2005: $208,306,817
2004: $184,193,950
2003: $152,749,814
2002: $125,928,583
2001: $112,287,143
2000: $107,588,459

Seriously, would you be surprised to see them flex up to $225M to guarantee a very strong shot at another championship?

by fandave on Nov 30, 2009 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

The Yankees are the only ones who really worry me because I know they covet John Lackey. Maybe they’ll decide they like Gonzalez better and we’d still get their 1st rounder.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

What if they sign...

Holliday, Lackey, and Soriano (since Gonzo would be above Lackey)? Would we get their third round pick?

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 30, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I think.

By my understanding, we would get third round pick.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes. Seems very unlikely, but yes.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Dec 1, 2009 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter

Any pick is better than no pick at all so we HAVE TO offer arbitration!

by jvvenez on Dec 1, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

And regardless...

…we still get the supplemental round pick.

by cavebird on Dec 1, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I read that they WON’T be increasing their budget…I think it was ESPN.com that had the article.

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

If anyone knows the Yankees, its ESPN.

"Matt Diaz is a baseball player."-Joe Simpson

by 10-4 on Nov 30, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

and Tiger Woods WON’T be checking his prenup status any time soon either…

"Hey Fat Kid...the monster is right behind you! RUNNNN!!" -The Host

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I assume they would put that out there … right up until they ink 2 or 3 top FAs to long term, high dollar deals.

by fandave on Nov 30, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I saw the rankings yesterday as well...

…and it is great news. I was pretty shocked they were ranked so highly. That being said, cbwilk, you left out a huge possibility that the Braves don’t get a first round pick for Gonzo or Soriano—-there are 15 teams out there with protected first round picks.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

Well, I didn’t really leave it out so much as decide it wasn’t relevant to the particular argument about whether or not to offer them arbitration because the team might only end up with a 2nd rounder because their new team signed somebody else. The status of the bottom 15 teams having their picks protected is a static thing that doesn’t change, so I didn’t think it was worth discussing in relation to this.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus, wouldn’t we get a sandwich pick anyway, and not a true 2nd rounder?

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

We’d get both. For losing a Type A that you’ve offered arbitration to you receive the other team’s 1st round pick and a supplemental pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds, or, if that team’s 1st rounder is protected or they sign another higher ranked free agent, you get the supplemental pick and that team’s 2nd rounder (or even 3rd if they sign that many players).

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Gracias. I guess I was confused on that. I didn’t realize a Type A was worth 2 picks. Nice!

I say offer the whole damn team arbitration then!

:)

"My team of nine guys who hit like Albert Pujols and never ever bunt just beat your team with one Shane Victorino 472 to 3."

by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

YES

Im sick of all this nickel and dime stuff

(Lou Brown Voice)

I thought hurricane season was over........

by bravesguy311 on Nov 30, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

And anyway I’m to old to go diving into a locker for a towel.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it: https://www.createspace.com/3407939
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Nov 30, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm

any chance we will find out about the arb decisions before tomorrow or will i have to wait till midnight tomorrow?

by drumzalicious on Nov 30, 2009 5:09 PM EST reply actions  

Nice

Why not gamble with both? If one resigns couldn’t they be packaged in a trade for Jeff Francoeur or Corey Hart lol

HansonManCrush

by HansonManCrush on Nov 30, 2009 5:19 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

If we offer Arb

and they sign elsewhere, we get a sandwich pick for each and one of three things for each:

1) 1st round pick if a non-protected team signs him

2) Early second round pick (1-16) if a protected team signs him

3) Late second in the Yanks scenario above

by graf on Nov 30, 2009 5:47 PM EST reply actions  

And we’ll probably lose a pick by signing a guy like Wagner

by graf on Nov 30, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on if Wagner is offered arb...

which may or may not happen depending on the Red Sox’s willing to gamble that he wants to be a closer more than he wants money (cause a one year deal through arb is probably more than he can find as a free agent, even for multiple years)

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 30, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

imo it's a win-win situation

If Wren offers both Soriano and Gonzalez arbitration. The only negative that I can think of is that it could hinder the team’s ability to upgrade other positions if both take the arbitration offer (which imo is unlikely). Right now, I can only see Soriano possibly staying because I’m sure teams will be cautious handing out a multi-year contract to an injury proned pitcher which will also cost them 2 draft picks.

by SmithnCompany on Nov 30, 2009 7:27 PM EST reply actions  

There is really no risk

Everywhere you go these two are rated as the top FA. They will get more money than they will get on arbitration. I don’t believe either one will take it and I think is a million to one shot that they both accept so why not offer it to both and get the picks?

by jvvenez on Dec 1, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I am understanding of not offering arbitration...

…in many cases even when fans don’t like it. However, this year, I think the Braves have a no brainer offering all three (even a few weeks ago, I wasn’t sure on this)—-we are okay on salary this season assuming we can move Lowe and would be fine with all three on one year arbitration deals. That makes it win-win.

by cavebird on Nov 30, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions  

AGREE

I don’t see why is there even a discussion

by jvvenez on Dec 1, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks for the explanation, btw

"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"

by Doghnut on Dec 1, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Atlanta Braves.
Start posting about the Braves »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Milkymilkycocoapuffs_small
Braves 2010: The Curse of the High Sox Goddess

Recent FanPosts

Tomahawk_a_small
Phillies 'still' to take Division?
100_1141_small
Lineup going forward?
Chip3_small
NAHWAL 9/2 Mets@Braves
Superman_small
Postseason Roster Construction
Tomahawk_a_small
Cox 10 wins away from 2,500
Chicpot_small
Minor in postseason rotation?
Chip3_small
NAHWAL 9/1 Mets@Braves
100_1141_small
Frenchy traded to the Rangers for IF
Chip3_small
Phillies@Dodgers OT 8/31

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Colorado Rockies' Carlos Gonzalez, left, and Ubaldo Jimenez, right, celebrate in the dugout after Gonzalez hits his second home run of the game in the sixth inning of a baseball game against the San Francisco Giants at Coors Field in Denver on Wednesday, Aug. 4, 2010. The Rockies won 6-1. (AP Photo/Chris Schneider)

Five Numbers: Carlos Gonzalez's Home Dominance, Baseball's Wave Of Flamethrowers, And More

Philadelphia Phillies' Chase Utley, right, celebrates his grand slam against the Colorado Rockies with teammates, from left, Ben Francisco, Jimmy Rollins and Brian Schneider in the seventh inning of a baseball game in Denver on Thursday, Sept. 2, 2010. The Phillies won 12-11. (AP Photo/Barry Gutierrez)

Phillies Post Nine-Run Seventh Inning, Hold On In Narrow Defeat Of Rockies

Detroit Tigers' Don Kelly (32) is congratulated in the Tigers' dugout after hitting a solo home run off Minnesota Twins pitcher Scott Baker during the first inning of a baseball game Thursday, Sept. 2, 2010, in Minneapolis. (AP Photo/Tom Olmscheid)

Tigers, Twins Blow Series Of Opportunities, Gerald Laird Wins It In 13th

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Gondeee_small gondeee

Authors

My_hair_is_a_bird-257x300_small yondaime4

Tc_small cbwilk

Dsc01731_small royhobbs

Bobby2_small mvhsbball

12475953_small pacgnosis

Benduronio_small BenDuronio

Moderators

Pmlb2-7373000dt_small HEYJUDE

Chip3_small GoBravesNY