Braves begin contract extension talks with Tim Hudson
The Braves "get the ball rolling" on keeping Tim Hudson in Atlanta:
Braves general manager Frank Wren and Hudson's agent, Paul Cohen, began negotiations on Thursday and they are expected to continue talking over the course of the next couple of days.
"We just kind of got the ball rolling," said a source with knowledge of the negotiations. [...]
Specifics about the early extension talks weren't revealed. But it is believed the Braves would be comfortable providing Hudson an offer of three years worth $27-29 million.
It has been the general consensus around baseball that the Braves will try and extend Hudson, and he has indicated that he would take a "hometown discount" to stay in Atlanta, near his home and his family. The obstacle in signing Hudson is that it dedicates even more of the clubs limited salary budget to the starting rotation. It is believed that by signing Hudson, the Braves signify that they would then be inclined to trade one of their other high-priced starting pitchers, preferably either Derek Lowe or Kenshin Kawakami, but trading Javier Vazquez is also still an option.
Speaking of Vazquez; he's younger than Hudson and not coming off an injury, so shouldn't we also be in contract talks with him? Of course, Hudson is the more pressing issue right now, since he can become a free agent this off-season and Vazquez will not be a free agent until next off-season, but if we get Huddy wrapped up, then we should definitely try to sign Vazquez now. Though he would likely command a higher annual salary, he may command even more per year if his services are put up for bid on the free agent market in a year.
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As i said in the fanshot
If Wren can find match up with someone on Lowe then that would be great because I personally believe Kawakami will put up some great numbers next year and wouldnt be surprised if the whole rotation has ERA’s of 3.30 and below.
As far as Javy goes I think the organization will wait till next season to talk to him just to see if he has a repeat year. If he does have a repeat year then i could see them locking him up for another two years.
by drumzalicious on Oct 23, 2009 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
JV
That’s exactly what they shouldn’t do (wait for a repeat). A smart GM has more than enough information to lock him up now while he’s still moderately less expensive.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 23, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree 100%
we need to wait and see how Javy does in 2010 before we consider locking him up. Go look at his career numbers:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vazquja01.shtml
He’s been very inconsistent throughout his career. 2009 was the best season of his career, without a doubt, and we need to make sure it wasn’t just a fluke and one great season. Yeah, it might cost us a few million more bucks to lock him up, but I’d rather be safe than sorry and see a letdown like he had after his 2003 and 2007 seasons (at the time, they were both the best years of his career).
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know JV’s career numbers quite well. However, linking to his B-Ref page doesn’t really give us the numbers we need, like his FIP. You know, the same thing that we pointed to last offseason to explain what a killer trade it was to pick up JV.
Wren obviously knew exactly what he was doing then—the deal played out exactly as expected. Switching to the NL, finally shaking a little bit of bad luck, JV’s excellent season this year did not come out of the blue, and it was not a surprise. Is he going to post a 2-something ERA in 2010? Probably not. But he is an excellent pitcher well worth extending, before he gets to free agency. Another year with an ERA in the low 3s and a K/BB over 4, and there will be absolutely no way the Braves can sign him.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 23, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"and there will be absolutely no way the Braves can sign him."
Not really. He won’t go anywhere on the west coast since it’s too far away from his family, and if the west coast teams are too far away, so too are the northern teams.
He already pitched in New York and Chicago so that’s a burned bridge. Boston? Maybe, but he’s such a better pitcher in the NL. Outside of those 3, who could realistically afford him?
I could see him going somewhere like St. Louis or Chicago, but the Cards have Carpenter and Wainwright to lock up and Javy has already pitched in the Windy City once before. Not to mention the Cubs have hardly any money with the ownership change and their bad contracts like Bradley, Soriano and Lilly.
Atlanta is the closet he’ll get to his family outside of the Florida teams (both couldn’t afford him either), it’s a fly-ball pitcher friendly ballpark, and he seems to like Atlanta and his teammates.
So no, it wouldn’t be that hard to resign him.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to know about budgets in 2011. Brewers and Reds both have some significant money coming off the books. There are a lot of teams and pitching is always in demand. If he’s up for free agency, I’d think he’d test the waters.
by Salty on Oct 23, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did u really just say Lilly is a bad contract… he is only $12 M and pitched prettty damn well this year
they have bad contracts, but its Zambrano, Fuk u do me, and maybe Dempspter (but not realy)
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 23, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only 12 million bucks? Ha. Only. And Soriano has one of the worst contracts in baseball. I have no clue how you don’t include him.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 24, 2009 2:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
i meant in addition to the other two u mentioned… i agree SOriano and Bradley are horrible contracts, although i should have said that…
Lilly struck out 8 batters per 9… walked less than 2 per 9… had a FIP of 3.6
he is gettin paid a little more than he’s worth… but he’s still pretty darn good… its not like any of those other contracts where they are overpayign by about 6-9M
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 24, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh okay, lol yeah their OF is a mess with all those contracts.
And yeah, Lilly had a nice year, but any player who makes $12 million bucks in a single season better be superstars. thats a ton of money
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 25, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what gets me...
$12 million for a decent but not great P, is acceptable. That’s how guys with middling records and suspect stuff—Lily, Kyle Lohse, Jason Marquis, etc are getting 8 figure yearly deals. How any of those pitchers is a $10+ million per year player is a HUGE sign that baseball salaries are excessive.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 26, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
This is some seriously awesome rampant speculation.
I’m not going to even try to prognosticate who would want JV 2011 except to say, if he tosses a low 3 ERA and has a K/BB over 4 again, there will be far too much competition in free agency for the Braves to be able to match.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 24, 2009 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree about that. Im sure that even on the West Coast if teams show him the money im sure he will take it. This is tough here cause i dont see why he cant continue to do what he did this year but who knows. I still think if we can get him to sign a 4 year extension worth 4 years and $50 million i say we gotta jump on that and do it, in case you dont know how much per year its $12.5 million per year.
braves#1
by rockybull on Oct 24, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$50M/4 would be a good deal for both sides. A little light on the annual, but the extra year might help sell JV on it. If that’s what it takes, I’d do it.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 25, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Signing Hudson for 3 years $27-29 million would save us about $3-4 million next season. The Braves had to have set aside $12 million in case the option was picked up. If he signs the extension then that gives us extra money to play with.
It does mean that 1 of our starters will probably be traded. Kawakami would not net us much but moving his salary would be nice. Lowe isn’t going to get much return either but getting rid of his salary would be great.
by jack dein on Oct 23, 2009 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m perplexed by the view that Lowe’s some sort of albatross with his contract. He’s a really good pitcher who had a poor season (by his standards) and still was worth 2.7 WAR.
I understand that some people think that, with the emergence of Hanson and KK and the return of Huddy, Lowe may be trade bait, but this view that Braves should leap at whatever they can get for Lowe for salary relief doesn’t make sense to me.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 23, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hes old
and his numbers have only been “ace” numbers one in the last five years. 15 million per year, and 3 years is a lot for a guy who will be nearly 40 when the contract ends.
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 23, 2009 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, who said anything about being an ace?
Derek Lowe is probably good for 3-4 WAR each year between now and 2012. Depending on what happens with the economy the next few years, he’ll roughly be worth his contract.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 23, 2009 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s the highest paid starter on the team. He’s not getting $15 million a year to be a middle rotation pitcher. He’s getting it to be the ace.
by jack dein on Oct 23, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he’s getting paid to throw 200+ above-average innings and contribute between 3-4 WAR per year. And that is typically what he does, year in and year out.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 24, 2009 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well hes getting paid ace money
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 23, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really sure what that means. Lincecum’s an ace, so is he getting ace money?
People are grossly overreacting to a few subpar months. Lowe’s likely to be worth his contract. There’s no need to just give him to the first taker for salary relief.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 24, 2009 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We won’t be able to keep all 6 starters. Right now Vazquez is the ace, Jurrjens is a solid number 2 while Hanson and Hudson are good 3 and 4 starters. That leaves Lowe and Kawakami to battle for 1 spot. Lowe costs more and they will have to be moved.
by jack dein on Oct 23, 2009 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hanson and Hudson being good 3-4 starters is quite the understatement. No matter what happens, this is a good problem to have for sure
by eaheckman10 on Oct 23, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hanson and huddy as a 3-4 combo are better than some teams 1-2 combo
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 9:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I have no problem trading the guy for value. Thing is, he’s a pretty decent pitcher, and it isn’t like the Braves are stuck with a Barry Zitoesque situation here.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 24, 2009 3:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atlanta paid more than anyone else to sign him. I’m not sure how you want to describe his performance last year, but I think its safe to say below expectations. He’s fairly old for a pitcher. He may pitch well for this contract plus more, but it could be that he’s experiencing decline related to his age. I believe he has three years left at a premium price. He represents a significant risk IMO.
Did you want a power hitter back in trade?
by Salty on Oct 24, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, that’s a reasonable way to look at it. And I do agree that Lowe’s contract (which was probably a mild overpay but was done when the rotation looked much weaker) has some risk.
But let me take the counterpoint.
Coming into 2009, Lowe had put up an average WAR of 3.8 over the four prior seasons. Last year was certainly a subpar year from him, but he still chipped in a solid 2.7 WAR year. For Lowe, 2009 was basically The Case of the Missing Slider. It went from a very, very good pitch in 2008 to a bad pitch in 2009.
We know from PitchFx that the problem probably wasn’t velocity, since the 2009 slider velocity stayed pretty close to his career averages and right in-line with the relative speed differential from the fastball. It looks like the issue was slider break. It’s possible that at age 35, Lowe simply lost the deception on the pitch, making him generally more hittable. We see that in the contact rates, the lower K rates, and the rising BB rates. I think it’s also possible that there is some other, fixable reason why the slider went from great to terrible so rapidly. Perhaps he was tipping it, perhaps McCann’s calling patterns for the slider, perhaps a hidden injury of some sort, or perhaps a different grip on the pitch in Atlanta’s humidity. Who knows? What I do know is that even with a piss poor slider, Lowe chipped in nearly 3 WAR. While that’s not enough to pay for his salary (much less add value), it’s not too bad. Maybe it’s the beginning of an age decline, or maybe it’s a one year oddity. Trading Lowe for whatever Atlanta can get for him just to be rid of his salary seems like the wrong move to me.
In terms of what I’d do, to be honest, unless Wren has to make salary room for the other needs, I’d keep Lowe for the time being. There’s the point about selling low (no pun intended), and I’d prefer to stay 6 deep in the rotation (at least until Feb/Mar), as things have a way of changing when you least expect them. Given Lowe’s durability and consistency, he provides a very nice option. I also think the $45M/3 he’s owed will look a lot better in Mar 2010 than it looks right now. If I had to deal Lowe, I’d expect back at least 2 guys back, probably a B-level middle infielder or 3B (great glove, no bat would be fine) and a live single A arm.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
by Yakker on Oct 24, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he said that the humidity of atlanta was giving him problems iirc, same thing happened to huddy when he first came too.
by McCann's the Man on Oct 24, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol
ill just go delete my fanshot now..
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 8:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Signing Vazquez now wouldn't be smart imo
We would be paying him at the absolute peak of his value.
by eaheckman10 on Oct 23, 2009 9:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this this this.
President of Marteeeny's Weeenies: The Official Fan Club for Martin Prado.
WE WANT PRADO AT 2B IN 2010!
by mvhsbball on Oct 23, 2009 9:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
among other reasons...
such as the team is already committed long term financially to two other pitchers (about to be three), and has two other young talents they want to commit to for the long term. For trade value, Javy is at his highest with just that one year, allowing whoever would trade for him to renegotiate their own deal. As things stand right now, leaving Vasquez as is makes the most sense. Now if/when a trade can occur, then he can be resigned but not before.
by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 24, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly even if he has another strong season it’s hard to see him getting significantly more than he would right now
by McCann's the Man on Oct 23, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good bye Lowe
Guess this kinda makes it a done deal that D. Lowe is going to be traded for a power bat ? I mean really nobody is going to give up a huge RH power bat that Frank Wren again spoke of in public, lol. Although do you guys think that giving up KK and another play would be enough to get Ludwick ? Also with only 22 homeruns and 97 RBI’s is Ludwick that power bat that we are seeking ?
Who knows what Wren will done but he has done some pretty good moves so far so I will just sit back and wait. If we deal Vazquez that would cost another team two power bats in my book or a power bat and a closer, LOL.
Go Braves ~
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 23, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
unrealistic expectations
by a lot
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 23, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so esadb
Well if Vazquez was playing in the post season or better yet have had some offense behind him he would have won 20 this year and you would not be saying what you are right now.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Oct 23, 2009 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But two power bats for one pitcher?
hohohhohohoh its the offseason, time to rosterbate in public places
by esadb on Oct 24, 2009 12:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I just want Wren to do the right moves to kick those phillie’s asses
by Carlos JB on Oct 23, 2009 10:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
huddy
We need to sign huddy for the 3 years at 27 million . Javy has said repeatedly he will take less to stay in Atlanta . But the persons that should be giving a discount to the Braves is Lowe and Chipper neither was worth there money . Chipper should take 5 million less and help pay for roachie to come back .
by ~~banditwolf~~ on Oct 24, 2009 4:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chipper did take a discount to remain here…13M was pretty about 2-3 M less than he’d get on the open market after his 2008 season
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I remembering right that he also took significantly less money last time around too? I think Chipper has had a history of putting the team first (at least in a relative sense).
by hollerin' brave on Oct 24, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
trade at peak value
I am surprised there aren’t more folks discussing what we can get for Javy. He is coming off a career year and his trade value will never be higher than it is right now.
I know he may be difficult to deal because of the restrictions in his contract, but trading him should be the first option.
If that isn’t feasible, then you have to look at Lowe. And fans should expect to feel cheated by whatever deal involves Lowe, because we would be trading him low.
by hollerin' brave on Oct 24, 2009 10:22 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
but why would u trade your best pitcher?
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there are a couple things to consider (and those with all the fancy stats can either back me up or shoot me down on this). One is that Javy is coming off a career year and I think its unlikely he will repeat his dominance, as some here have already pointed out. Now, we have to look at the entire trade package and how it will impact our team as a whole. What would make most sense for the Braves? A rotation of JV, JJ, TH, TH, and KK with an average LF/bat OR a rotation of JJ, TH, TH, DL and KK with a big-time LF/bat?
I would suggest the later is better for the Braves in 2010 and perhaps even in 2011. If someone has projected numbers and possible trades, it’d be interesting to see if my thinking is accurate.
by hollerin' brave on Oct 24, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JV has a no trade to any West Division team… and has been mentioned he has already pitched for most of th ebig market teams in ht ecnetral and east. The only ones left at Red Sox (who might want another pitcher, but I doubt it) and the Cubs (who have enough contract diiffculties and cap problems they certainly don’t need to add another 12M, unless we do a Aramis Ramirez for JV deal…which we wont and they wont)… he could go to a mid market team, like the Brewers or the Twins (new ballpark =more revenue) or the Reds or Cards… but most of those teams are in the proper postion to do the deal (either bc of proximity to winning games, or spots int he rotation, or the parts needed to complete the deal).
I think it is gonna be very tough to trade JV (or Lowe for that matter)… and ultimately I don’t see it happening.
Heyward,Hanson,and Shaffer r ready now!! Why do you think they havent signed the "right handed bat"?
by fatazfoot on Jan 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST
by Swo12bv on Oct 24, 2009 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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