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But still...

This is an emotional day. It's going to be an emotional day for John Smoltz, and it's going to be an emotional day for many Braves fans. So far there has been a lot of anger directed at various people ranging from Smoltz to Frank Wren to Benjamin Franklin's face on money. These are all natural emotions that I myself have been going through today as well.

CB had a good point early this morning (link, then go to his 12:42 post):

[...] the more logical part of me is actually behind not bringing Smoltzie back (and even less behind bringing Glavine back). The truth is, the guy only pitched 28 innings last year and he looked like he was in pain on every single pitch. And yeah, when he’s healthy he’s still as dominant as can be, but he’s turning 42, he’s had a ton of major arm surgeries [four to be exact], how often can you reasonably expect him to be healthy anymore?

As much as I hate to say it, if somebody is willing to guarantee him a major league job and a bunch of money, then good for him, but I don’t think it would be prudent for the Braves to do so. We saw how having a bunch of money tied up in players who aren’t playing hindered them this season, but more importantly, we saw how expecting players to play who can’t, hurt them. Signing up for another season of counting on guys who are likely to see more days on the DL than off just doesn’t seem like a good plan.

And JC seemed to echo CB's point in his post this morning:

From a team-quality standpoint, I really don’t see what the big deal is. John Smoltz is not just slightly hurt, and $5.5 million is a lot of guaranteed money to cough up for an injury risk. He didn’t just get his knee scoped. He’s about to turn 42, and he’s coming off major shoulder surgery. Yeah, I know he’s throwing off the mound, yadda yadda yadda, but that’s a long way from being the dominant pitcher he has been over the past few seasons. [...]

From the reports I’m reading, Smoltz’s injury should keep him out for the first third of the season. [...]

I don’t think Frank Wren deserves the heat that he is going to get for this. The Braves have paid Smoltz $130 million over his career. Smoltz wanted more, and I don’t blame Wren for passing. Signing and not signing Smoltz both have risks, and I think he gambled on the right side.

And of course Mark Bradley from the AJC also chimed in:

As heretical as this may sound, the Braves would be wise to take a tip from the Falcons, who have rarely been great or grand or even very good. Thomas Dimitroff arrived from New England and proceeded to lop four Pro Bowlers and his team was the better for it, and he’s about to dump more big names this winter.

Put simply, the professional team that isn’t going forward is falling back. The Braves keep recycling old ideas, which is a sure sign they’re running out of new ones. Not coincidentally, they’ve also finished third, third, and fourth over the past three seasons.

As difficult as it would be to see Smoltz in a different uniform, it’s nothing the Braves couldn’t get over. (They got over seeing Glavine work for the hated Mets.) This is big-league baseball. These things happen. Better to let a 41-year-old pitcher take a guarantee of $5 million to play for the Red Sox, who toss millions around like pennies, than to risk $5 million of your own on his surgically altered shoulder.

By trying to repeat the past, the Braves are guaranteeing they won’t have much of a future. They need to learn how to say goodbye and mean it. If Smoltz wins 20 for the Sox, more power to him. But you can’t plan for tomorrow on the basis of what a 41-year-old might (or might not) do. You have to move on.

Wow, I can't believe I (A) actually posted that much of a snippet from a Mark Bradley column and (B) kind-of agree with him. I will say that the Braves keep recycling "old players" as well as old ideas, but it is exactly that old idea that we are trying to build our team on again this year, so don't disparage it too m uch.

The goal for Frank Wren and the Braves remains the same, almost exactly the same as it was when the off-season started -- find a couple of quality, healthy starting pitchers and another impact hitter. By their low-ball offer, the Braves clearly didn't feel that John Smoltz fit into that plan, and this Frank Wren run team certainly seems to want to be very careful about how it spends its money.

Having money tied up in the wrong contracts is what has hampered the Braves for the past few years -- is Wren learning from that lesson?

Counting on players who have question marks about their health -- is Wren learning from that lesson?

I certainly wouldn't call the Braves' significant interest in A.J. Burnett or Rafael Furcal learning from either of those two lessons, but I wouldn't call throwing a lot of money at John Smoltz learning from them either. With these two opposing positions on players I can see how Smoltz might be confused if the team is willing to shell out money to injury risks Burnett and Furcal, but unwilling to match the Red Sox offer for him.

I'm sure we could go on all day with reasons why and people to blame, but the reality is that Smoltz is no longer a Brave. We get to move on and build the team with other players. Healthier players and younger players. But still... something just doesn't seem right.

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I want to agree...

But this is John Smoltz. The fact that he continuously proves everyone wrong who have ever doubted his health not only makes him a medical marvel, but somebody who never should be doubted.

Look, until he is 6 feet under or John Smoltz himself says the he can’t pitch anymore, I will never doubt his ability to pitch. In fact, I’m pretty sure his corpse could put up a sub-4.00 ERA if he wanted. I will continue to believe that he can pitch until proven otherwise…because this is Smoltz.

by Andy Braves Fan on Jan 8, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

And furthermore

Somebody else brought this up on another blog…

Either way, Smoltz’s departure will be a PR nightmare And will hamper the Braves revenue in 2009…especially as it doesn’t seem the Braves will be competing. The business end of this must be taken into account as well.

by Andy Braves Fan on Jan 8, 2009 1:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So…do I need to change my handle, or what?

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 1:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

lol

We have to put a poll up on that

-1000 for being a dick.

by Rhyno18 on Jan 8, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear “McCann’s Love Handles” and “Hanson’s #1 Hard-on” are still available.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know we already have a FYF’s LOB, or something like that. How about Francouer’s Failure?

-1000 for being a dick.

by Rhyno18 on Jan 8, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“Andruw’s Smile”

Because yes, he’s coming back.

by Bobby Cocks on Jan 8, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How about...

Frenchy’s Vacant Smile
Chipper’s Goatee
Gonzo’s Terrifying Stare

Just a few suggestions

by Andy Braves Fan on Jan 8, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

how bout somehting within the same line of thinking

Boyer’s Beard…as per Lizziebeth’s photo of him and huddy

it has alliteration and rolls right off the tongue

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 8, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Would you want to be named after Blaine Boyer?

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

im just saying…. and for the record i like Blaine Boyer…

thats right i said it… lets go BOYER… the future of the Braves (ok i may have gone too far, there)

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 8, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, I got it

Something along the lines of Chipper’s Waitress or Chipper’s Ho, or maybe Chipper’s Baby Mama

Cuz it has to be a long time Brave

-1000 for being a dick.

by Rhyno18 on Jan 8, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There you have it: a universal screen name that is also educational: “OPS=OBP+SLG” and then you can be like Yakker and have “formerly Smoltz’s Beard on Talking Chop” as your signature.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How about...

Derek Jeter’s Calm Eyes
or
Campillo’s Goatee
or
Moylan’s Glasses

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Moylan got laser vision surgery you dumb fuck

by jjcollins on Jan 8, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm…that seems a little harsh.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously. I didn’t know that.

by cbwilk on Jan 8, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Overreact much?

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

son of a bitch…. its staring us right in the eyes…….. McCann’s Beard

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 8, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Its too bad smoltz couldn’t have gone to the Yankees, then he would have to leave his beard in Atlanta.

by 10-4 on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

to “Smawltzy’s Byeard”

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

All great responses…thanks to all for some laughs, in what has been an otherwise dreary day.

Most likely I’ll just keep the name, as an homage to my mainest man (other than Chip).

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Admit it

You were totally sold on OPS=OBP+SLG, but realized how exasperating it would be to type in when logging in.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not gonna lie…that’s a pretty good one. I could have even used your little jpg as my avatar picture.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if you didn’t like any of those I think “4lbpoopy” is still available. It’s a pretty good reflection on all the shit that’s happened to us this off-season …

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 8, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Smoltz' beard has got to go.

Alternatives:
SubParr
Miuccia Prado
Infante’s Infantry

by nick9314 on Jan 8, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i am sad to see john leave, but

first i dont think any amount of money would have kept him in ATL… he wants to win.

second, its fiscally irresponsible to drop the money the SAWX dropped on Johnnie.

third this latest shoulder problem was so significant that he had trouble sleeping. I can’t even comprehend the amount of pain that is. His shoulder was destroyed. It may be better now, he seems to think it is. But four major shoulder surgeries… people ma have overcome it before, if anyone can its John Smoltz… but in reality is it intelligent to think he can be as competitive as he has been in the past.

Its completely possible he starts 25 games throws 150 innings and strikes out 160 guys.. and every start he needs two cortizone shots. that would be great but i think its more realistic that he will flame out and have trouble staying healthy… as much as it pains me to say.

I love John Smoltz i wish he could stay a Brave forever, but the fact is this doesnt change my feelings of him. He will still be a Brave, he will go into the Hall as a Brave… and when he retires, if he decides to coach Im sure it will be with the Braves. I wish him all the best and hope he can get that ring he wants.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 8, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Moving on

If all goes to plan, Smoltz should be in the Boston rotation in the start of June, which means he’ll hopefully be available when the Red Sox come to Atlanta. The return of Smoltz to Atlanta should be an emotional storyline, which will prompt several sob stories on braves.com, and probably force FOX to make it a game of the week. Nonetheless, I will be disappointed at anyone at Turner Field that does not stand and pay appreciation to John Smoltz should he come out onto the field then.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This makes sense if....

The only way this makes sense for the Braves is IF they use all of that money we heard so much about this offseason. They seemed determined to spend and as of yet all we have spent on is Javier Vasquez.

If we go into the season still holding most of that money then I disagree with all of the above quotes.

by Fischerking on Jan 8, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I’m flattered Gondeee, yet still, despite my rationalizing, totally bummed.

by cbwilk on Jan 8, 2009 2:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

hey, I was in a total panic this morning when I saw the news, but your post brought me in off the ledge for a while.

by gondeee on Jan 8, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For a while? So you’re back on the ledge?

by cbwilk on Jan 8, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yah, poor guy; somebody had to come out there and hold my hand…and pass the vodka and listerine.

by Lizziebeth on Jan 8, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dimitroff

Dimitroff dumped huge name guys who weren’t performing and were distractions in the clubhouse. How does John Smoltz compare in any way with that?

by sting51684 on Jan 8, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I was actually surprised to see Warrick Dunn and Alge Crumpler cut, to be honest, because both were pretty good producers, and both were pretty charitable guys. It just seemed like Dimitroff took the approach that the Falcons just needed a complete reset from the Vick days, even if it meant cutting some established guys. Yet Brooking and Finneran managed to stay on the squad.

The more I think about it, the more the Smoltz move seems success driven – the financial aspect is clearly a bonus, and definitely beneficial to padding his wallet/potential alimony dues. The only thing I’ve heard John Smoltz say on the record that he wanted was to be able to say that he wanted to be the guy with 20 post-season wins, which if done in one playoff should equate to a championship. Boston gives him as good of a chance as any of this decade’s prime contenders, and they’re paying him generously. Even if the Braves could beat the monetary offer, the likelihood of a playoff berth seems lesser in Atlanta than in Boston.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

winning 20 games

if Smoltz wins 20 games for the sox…then and only then will i be sad to see him go…i love smolltz and what he has done for the braves…but it’s time to let him go. Now we still have some holes to fill in our rotation we need to fill them. We need to spend money to be able to compete..that is what baseball is all about these days. Unless you have great young talent at the major league level (which we do not have) then you need to spend money to win.. sometimes you must overspend to get the guy you want

by coachg3 on Jan 8, 2009 2:51 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i think its impossible to win 20 games in 4 months

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not for Smoltzie!!!!!1

The guy is a monster. He could win 30 games on hearts and guts alone.

Smoltz has so much heart and guts that they had to take some out because he was too full. That is the real reason they opened up his labrum. He had too much heart, and it was making it hard to pitch.

Formerly Uncle Charlie of Minor League Ball

by Yakker on Jan 8, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've heard of that.

I thinik it’s caused by high blood pressure…

by WienerDog on Jan 8, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

*think*

smartass remarks are so much less effective with misspellings.

by WienerDog on Jan 8, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He had so much heart and guts, they could take the excess and inject into Kyle Davies and Jeremy Bonderman and in essence have THREE John Smoltzes. You’d know when the transformation was successful when both developed giant manbeards.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Jan 8, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dare I say that Smoltzie could kick Chuck Norris’ ass?

by Bobby Cocks on Jan 8, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he’d cock his fist to throw a punch and blow out his shoulder again

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hahahahahaha

best defensive shortstop in baseball hahahahahahahahahah (omar visquel)

by mvandonsel on Jan 8, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What needs to be realized

is that signing Lowe/Kawakami can’t salvage this disappointment. Sure, it puts names on the depth chart and bodies on the mound every night, but this could have been accomplished while keeping Smoltz.

Now you’ve got to overpay a guy who, until now was Option D, out of total desperation. Imagine what Derek Lowe has to be thinking during his visit to Turner Field. It’s like a D-1 athlete on a visit with the football coach from Washington University—if they even have a team (work with me on the analogy).

It’s more than losing a player—this is going to be felt by his ex-teammates, probably harder than it’s hit us, and not until they get dressed together for the first time in a few weeks.

And if you read DOB’s posting of Chipper’s comments, that tells the story. He’s pissed and he says Smoltz was pissed. Of all the teams in the mix, the one team he wanted to come back to, this is the organization that gave him the most insulting, lowball offer.

by hoboken_wood on Jan 8, 2009 3:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

So…we should have signed Smoltz no matter the price, knowing full well that he was not going to pitch the entire season, just to keep morale up?

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Dumbass

Boston’s offer will total 10 million for Smoltz if he reaches his incentive clauses.
Atlanta’s offer could have totalled 12 million for Smoltz is he reached his incentive clauses.

How the fuck is that a low-ball offer?

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 8, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Has our offer been confirmed? I thought it was 2mil, plus 5mil in incentives?

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

It was confirmed by a “source” to Gordon Edes, but that’s not exactly official

Later Thursday a Braves source close to the negotiations confirmed that Atlanta’s offer guaranteed considerably less money than that of the Red Sox. The Braves would have paid Smoltz incrementally based on his health up to a maximum of $5 million if he remained on the major league roster for 60 days, and the guarantee was for no more than $3 million. The offer also included another $5 million in performance bonuses and $2 million in additional incentives. So Smoltz could have earned up to $12 million by staying healthy and pitching extremely well.

Full article

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 8, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just curious…thanks.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

John Smoltz Facts

If you have five dollars and John Smoltz has five dollars, John Smoltz has more money than you.
There is no ‘ctrl’ button on John Smoltz computer. John Smoltz is always in control.
Apple pays John Smoltz 99 cents every time he listens to a song.
John Smoltz can sneeze with his eyes open.
John Smoltz can eat just one Lay’s potato chip.
John Smoltz is suing Myspace for taking the name of what he calls everything around you.
John Smoltz can kill two stones with one bird.

Goodbye to a legend:(

by NorCalAtlFan on Jan 8, 2009 3:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say that

But especially this year, when you’re supposedly sitting on a big pile of money, is that gamble not worth what essentially comes to $4-5 million? John Smoltz is one of the rare cases in baseball these days where it actually matters/makes a difference that he’s in your clubhouse.

by hoboken_wood on Jan 8, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

you seriously want us to pay john smoltz something like 8 million guaranteed plus incentives?

BIG JOE SUCK ONE

by bigjoe on Jan 8, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course. And if Wren did that and Smoltz got hurt and missed most of this season like he did last year and we couldn’t do anything because we had too much money tied up in guys on the DL Wren would be an idiot. Wren’s an idiot no matter what happens to these guys.

by cbwilk on Jan 8, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant

the difference between him staying and going to Boston. The deal is for $5.5M and the difference from what the Braves (allegedly) offered and what it would have taken to eclipse Boston’s deal is essentially $4M.

by hoboken_wood on Jan 8, 2009 4:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hey dumbass right back at ya

This is why…

Later Thursday a Braves source close to the negotiations confirmed that Atlanta’s offer guaranteed considerably less money than that of the Red Sox.

I don’t care if your incentives put him at $25 million. I’m saying make the guaranteed money comparable. You don’t think he would have stayed if that money was equal?

by hoboken_wood on Jan 8, 2009 4:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Don't know/Don't care

First, learn to use the reply button, that’s what it’s there for!

Smoltz should not have anticipated a large guaranteed sum considering the significance of his injury. If he went to Boston just because of the guaranteed money then he’s not anticipating being able to make his incentives, which means he doesn’t really think he’ll be very useful. If he’s not able to pitch effectively he’s not going to be worth the guaranteed money.

Either way, the point was the Braves didn’t low-ball him which is what you said!

"Debated ya right not one person agreed with me" by ATLsportsfrk on Dec 27, 2008 6:31 PM EST

by scstrato on Jan 8, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m with you on the incentives part. If he’s so confident about his ability to pitch, he’d be fine with a low base and high incentives.

by cbwilk on Jan 8, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

OK here's your reply

….but you posted the Edes article yourself!!! Not to mention this from AJC:

According to a person familiar with the situation, Smoltz would have been required to pitch 200 innings next season to reach the maximum incentives in the Braves’ offer. Incentives in the Red Sox proposal are more easily attainable.

Coming off reconstructive shoulder surgery and starting your season in June, 200 IP is not “attainable.” It’s an impossibility. Braves knew that. Lowball deal. Period.

And you said yourself that the incentives would make the Braves’ contract worth more, so isn’t he then taking the guaranteed money from Boston??

Whatever though…everyone’s got different opinions on all this.

by hoboken_wood on Jan 8, 2009 5:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gondee...

…just noticed the new motto/slogan for TalkingChop. Good stuff, I approve.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Jan 8, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

that is glorious

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 8, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whereas I agree that the Braves need to move forward, to do so, you need a plan, and a rotation that includes JoJo Reyes and an outfield of Diaz, Anderson and Francouer isn’t much of a plan.

by Tokyokie on Jan 9, 2009 2:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

its a plan…just a really reallly bad plan.

"We win today, that's two in a row... if we win tomorrow, that's called a winning streak. It has happened before..."

by Swo12bv on Jan 9, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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