Braves Deal Kotsay to Boston

by yondaime4 on Aug 27, 2008 2:39 PM EDT Comment 34 comments

Well I was just over at MLB.com and found this little piece of information. Here's the link for those who want to read it themselves:

In return we get minor league OF Luis Sumoza. I do no know anything about Sumoza other than what the stats tell me. He is having a solid season in the short-season New York-Penn League posting an OPS of .915 and swatting 11 homers in 193 ABs. He also has a 21/59 BB/K ratio, so he K's a bit but balances it with a few walks. He just turn 20 also so he has some time to grow and will probably go to Rome after everything gets finalized.

What do you guys think about the return we got for Kotsay? I like it, simply because we got something for him. I figured we might get cash or a PTBN but Sumoza looks like he could be a decent prospect and we unload the salary that we owe Kotsay. I'll call it a win for now, but was acquiring Kotsay for Joey Devine worth it in the long run?

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was acquiring Kotsay for Joey Devine worth it in the long run?

that’s a big NO.

Devine had another scoreless inning with 2 Ks last night against the Angels bringing the ERA down to 0.83. He looks like a closer.

by TradeAndruw on Aug 27, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Never liked the deal – we got Anderson before Kotsay, then stuck Josh in the minors. We had Diaz, Frenchy, Blanco, Anderson, and Schafer if needed (I know – hindsight). Still, I never felt Kotsay was a necessity – especially not for the price of Devine.
I will say that Kotsay did exactly what the Braves wanted him to do, so I guess the organization should be satisfied, and hindsight is certainly 20/20. And who knows, maybe Devine needed the proverbial “change of scenery” to get his head back on straight. Looks like that worked….

by secondbass on Aug 27, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Devine AND Jamie Richmond for Kotsay???

Another bad trade that has jeparodized our future.

by jjcollins on Aug 27, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right...

I meant to throw Richmond in the discussion….

by secondbass on Aug 27, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeopardizing our future?

Overreaction much? Jamie Richmond isn’t worth much; We got his replacement (and more) in Todd Redmond-Tyler Yates trade. Joey Devine is a good reliever, but don’t let the fact that he was a first rounder cloud your judgement on his worth.

I agree that the trade was a bad one, but come on. Jeopardizing our future by trading a good reliever and a fringe ML starter?

by soup du jour on Aug 27, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone other than Wren like the Kotsay deal the moment it was mentioned?

I don’t think it takes hindsight to know it was a bad deal at the time, especially since we traded for Anderson already. Basically, trading for Kotsay was the wrong move in both the long run and short run. When management is telling you they got a guy who plays the game the right way and his production goes beyond the box score, you know you’re fucked.

In fairness to Wren though, Blanco hadn’t emerged yet. Anderson was the CF and we didn’t really have a backup CF. Frenchy and Matty D can’t play center and they wanted to protect Shafer’s development. I guess the plan was Kotsay with Anderson on the bench. Still, I would rather have had Anderson starting + ? + Devine for 2008 anyway.

Then again, Bobby never used Devine so I guess we wouldn’t have had an value from him if he stayed anyway. Or we could have just traded him for something worthwhile.

This trade looks pretty good though. Got something decent for someone who likely wouldn’t even be a type B.

by VictorW on Aug 27, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Regarding Devine

I was surprised at the time that they gave up Devine. A fomer #1 pick. But I just got the feeling that Bobby and mgmt never trusted Devine. Or rather, never trusted the fact that he would be anything special. Kotsay performed well when he played and in return I think the Braves got a young player with potential. Would I have done the deal originally, Kotsay for Devine and Richmond? Probably not. But at this point it’s a wash. And the potential for Atlanta to get the better of it does exist.
And regarding the post by jjcollins that this is another bad trade. Quite frankly, I’d rather be a fan of a team that isn’t afraid to make a bad trade than a fan of a team that is afraid to trade. JS/Wren aren’t perfect, and there are clunkers in their portfolio, but they are better than most.

by NorCalAtlFan on Aug 27, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Kotsay trade was so bad

because it should have been obvious it was bad before it even happen. Compare it to the Teixeira trade. No one can argue that Teixeira greatly increase our chances of winning for 1.3 seasons by adding him. The question is if we overpaid or if it was worth it.

But with the Kotsay trade… Is Kotsay + no Devine even an upgrade over Anderson, who we already had, + Devine for 2008? And a lot of people were thinking that way before the trade was even finalized. A lot of people thought Devine deserved to be in the pen already, and were sad to see him go for so little.

I just hate trading prospects with good upside, especially when they’re basically major league ready, for washed up vets hoping they’ll “return to form,” because they’re “gamers,” will provide “veteran leadership,” or some other dumb cliche. Other crappy vet trades: Casey Blake to the Dodgers. Renteria to the Tigers. Juan Pierre to the Cubs. And these were all trades that were bad at the time for the team getting the vet.

It’s just a bad way to run a team when you’re banking a player’s effectiveness on his intangibles, grittiness, and oldness instead of his actual impact. And Kotsay’s was very average when healthy, which was basically the best case scenario. However, Wren wanted him cause he played the game the right way and was a savvy vet. I just don’t think that’s a good trade policy at all.

by VictorW on Aug 27, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you learn nothing from the last post I had about his ERA?

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 27, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah yeah

a couple fluky outings, I got it. So maybe his ERA should be more like 1.50. Still not too shabby.

by TradeAndruw on Aug 27, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."

by jug on Aug 27, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we can still use her picture.

Mark Kotsay is now in Braves lore, because he hit for the cycle. So i think a piece of him forever belongs with the Braves. and if i had to vote for what piece, well…….

by 10-4 on Aug 27, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My shot of SK's double that night

it’s not as good as the “professional” versions, but when will I ever have a reason to post it now?!
(seriously, hope I’m not too annoying with the pictures)

by Lizziebeth on Aug 27, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you

are alive!

by sddbaker on Aug 27, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One of my favorites...

“I swear Kots, that dude had a picture of your wife on his shirt in that very pose…no lie!”

by Lizziebeth on Aug 27, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sumoza for joey devine = facepalm

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Aug 27, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wait and you forgot the throw in Richmond. Double facepalm!

by Jay212033 on Aug 27, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give it time. Sumoza could be the next Jeff Francoeur.

Wait, he’s not good anymore?

by 10-4 on Aug 27, 2008 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Josh Anderson is being recalled from AAA

According to the AJC….

by secondbass on Aug 27, 2008 4:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think...

having Mrs. Kotsay “on the team” has been invaluable to the morale of the male members of Talking Chop. Therefore, it was worth it.

by sddbaker on Aug 27, 2008 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sumoza is a decent player. Probably nothing that will be in our top 30 next year, but he has a non-zero chance of becoming a major leaguer. That’s not bad.

Kotsay himself wasn’t that bad in center field for us. His defense was a bit below average which is worse than Blanco’s essentially average defense. Kotsay’s bat was a mild improvement over Blanco’s but not really that much better. Obviously Kotsay was superfluous to our needs in 2008, but he played above expectations and stayed reasonably healthy.

by 17843 on Aug 27, 2008 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Devine Seriously?

Even if Devine is a top prospect and has improved, have you all forgotten how God-awful he was as a Brave?
2 grand slams allowed in 2 appearances! the game winning HR allowed in the longest game in Braves post-season history, to some scrub the Astros used when they ran out of players. I think that it was more or less the change of scenery (me and other fans booing him into submission) that contributed to his “success” besides we all knew Kotsay was a 1 year bridge the gap player at best anyways.

by cireland3 on Aug 27, 2008 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah..

..straight out of college. Damn him! They set him up to fail really – the Braves FO mishandled Devine from the get go. Period. End. Of. Story.

Give me a break.

Revisit the Braves World Championship Year, all Season!

You can also check out my stuff at Baseball Digest Daily

by RainDelay on Aug 27, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol at the braves fans 1) caring about their team and 2) getting to a player. maybe if that was true, francoeur wouldn’t suck ass

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Aug 27, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another one I'll probably never have a reason to use again

by Lizziebeth on Aug 27, 2008 11:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I still like...

…bigjoe’s picture of SK holding a bag full of heads.

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 28, 2008 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

totally forgot about that one! It’s a classic.

by Lizziebeth on Aug 28, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that was not bigjoe's!!!!!!

I have a couple week’s hiatus and nobody gives me credit anymore!

bigjoe has too much…data…to be that creative.

"Have you ever had your heart broken?"
"Yeah, when we lost the pennant in '87."

by jug on Aug 28, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha, so classic. Kotsay’s face makes me laugh. Sorry jug!

I guess I should be one to talk.
There's nights that I can't even walk.
There's days I couldn't give a fuck.
And in between is where I'm stuck.

by Smoltz's Beard on Aug 28, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i miss him already =(

Following the Braves...one long hard drink at a time.

by bigjoe on Aug 28, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, stick around, then!!

by Lizziebeth on Aug 29, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

remember when...

we had a healthy promising pitching staff at the beginning of the season. big bats up and down the line-up. kotsay was gonna be another piece of the playoff puzzle. then everything fell apart. if we had low expectations this year, it would have made sense to roll with anderson or jones or some other prospect in CF. Wren was just trying to bring it all together.

by NYSaint on Aug 28, 2008 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kotsay

You can’t unwind every trade back into the distant past. At the time we traded Devine, there was no room for him in the pen, we didn’t have a CF, and we thought we had a solid team that would be a contender. We needed a good CF for one year to get us to Shafer, and Mark delivered exactly what we wanted. Meanwhile, the entire rotation went on the DL, half the bullpen joined them, Diaz missed most of the year…and you know the rest.

We may have overpaid for Kotsay, but you usually do with Billy Beane. His only tool is to trade decent veterans for young players.

If our pitching had stayed healthy and we were in a pennant race, no one would even notice how Devine is doing.

It looks to me like we got a very useful prospect for a month of Kotsay, with Shafer ready to take over next year and a solid bullpen. Our problems are in the rotation and LF, not in the pen, so just how useful would Devine be anyway?

by Mekons5 on Aug 28, 2008 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs