The Trades Just Keep on Coming

by gondeee on Jan 18, 2008 8:56 AM EST in Trade News Comment 21 comments

And they continue to be head-scratchers. The Braves acquired left-handed reliever Jeff Ridgway from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for utility infielder Willy Aybar and minor league shortstop Chase Fontaine. Really!

I'm I missing the point of the Braves off-season strategy again? Is this the same thing as the Kotsay trade; will I eventually come around to it? For now, I'm a bit lost as to why we made this trade and why we included so much.

Ridgway is a 27-year old lefty who has thrown exactly one-third of an inning of major league baseball. In return we gave up a valuable (albeit formerly drugged-out) Aybar and a young infield hitter in Fontaine who it's been said has a high upside, for a 27-year old lefty! Don't we already have two and a half lefties in our bullpen? What was the Will Ohman trade? Is Royce Ring a useless pile of dung and I'm just not aware of this?

Oh, this really makes me fear that Mike Gonzalez might not be back this year, so the team is trying to acquire all the options and depth it can. But is this really the market for what can only be described as an "organizational left-handed reliever?"

Last year at Durham Ridgway did strike out 67 batters in 64.2 innings pitched and he held left-handed batters to a .163 batting average and right-handers to a .269 average. Okay, not too bad, but it's still just triple-A. He does apparently throw in the low 90's getting all the way to 94.

So we make this trade AND the utility infielder we just acquired, Omar Infante, apparently has a broken hand that could require surgery and keep him out until mid-March necessitating that he may have to start the year on the disable list.

DEJA VU ALERT!!!

Isn't this the same damn thing that happened to Aybar last year? He had a broken hand which made him miss spring training, oh, and that led to a bit of a pain killer addiction, be it a prescription pain killer or Johnny Walker Red.

I guess it's a decent move for depth that we hope (there's that word again) can be a major league pitcher. At least we won't be short of lefty-relievers next year.

0 recs | Comment 21 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Idiot

FireFrankWren.com

by jjcollins10 on Jan 18, 2008 9:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

What!?!?

are you serious right now? you want to fire wren because he traded away 4 players that have nothing to do with the Braves World Series hopes. Do you know how difficult it is in todays Major League Baseball to move a player with substance abuse problems and been out of baseball (presumably not concentrating on training) for more than a year. The Braves are clearly shooting for as much bullpen depth as possible. just look at the all of the recent trades FW and JS have made throughout last season and the off season. Aybar is not a Braves organization player so i feel this was pretty much the best FW could get considering Aybar was most likely a priority to be moved.

and I dont hate the Kotsay deal either. We did give up a lot of "upside" but nothing proven. Its not like the Braves havent been successful with one year stopgaps that are injury prone (JD Drew) in the past. Lets give Frank Wren some credit here for trading away expendible future for a World Series title now!

by MIZIKE74 on Jan 18, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ridgway...

...had a sweet year last year. Great stats.

by Smoltzs Beard on Jan 18, 2008 9:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

maybe there's a method to Frank Wren's madness. We'll see. Man, I miss Dayton Moore.

by jjhoosby on Jan 18, 2008 10:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Prospects Vs. Reality

Some have pointed out that the Tex trade looked like it would signal a change in how the Braves do business. Apparently what JS started Wren in finishing. If we keep doing these 2 prospects for one bench guy deals what will we have left? An empty farm and a handful of useful "pieces". Pieces do not a ball club make. You need good-great players in everyday roles and good players on the bench, not a bunch of journeymen, has beens and never weres. Well, at least we know something. Frank wren is not risk adverse and he severely discounts future value.

Burning Brave

by torchy on Jan 18, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

What about Prado??

You're right on about what we'll have left when Wren is finished....a lot of little pieces of a team. I just don't understand grooming these guys in the minors (especially Blanco and Prado) and not giving them a shot in the big leagues. Instead, what seems to be the pattern is that we're getting other people's guys that have some major league experience, but geez - are they any better of an option than the guys we have? Giving up Richmond and Devine was bad enough, but now Fontaine?? Maybe those three guys would never have been stars, but they'd at least be good enough to do the jobs the guys we've been trading for can do. Then there's the possibility that they will become very good major league players.
Ugh...this is getting frustrating.

by secondbass on Jan 18, 2008 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perspective

I have no problem with dumping Aybar, a drug addict who no-showed for at least two scheduled meetings with Braves' managament at the end of the 2007 season. He had no shot to make Atlanta's 2008 roster, so good riddance. However, I do have a problem with the trade that brought this drug addict to Atlanta in the first place, since proper due diligence was apparently not exercised. For a club that places so much value on "make-up" and clubhouse citizenship, this is curious.

I will be surprised if Ridgway ever sees Atlanta. Ridgway is a 27 year old lefty minor league reliever. His minor league stats suggest he is a strikeout pitcher who has walked way too many batters throughout his career. His major league experience consists of 1/3 inning with Tampa Bay last year, in which he gave up a HR, a BB, and seven earned runs. There is nothing in his resume to suggest he can leapfrog Royce Ring or Will Ohman in the organizational pecking order, not to mention Mike Gonzalez. I'm guessing Wren sees Ridgway as insurance because Ring is out of options and Gonzalez is rehabbing. But someone better teach him to throw strikes if there is any chance he would be needed in Atlanta.

Anyway, I don't think Aybar or Ridgway are worth worrying about.

The worry here is Chase Fontaine, a 22 year old second baseman who hit .288 in 313 ABs in low-A ball at Rome last year before finishing the season with 78 ABs (.205 BA) at Myrtle. As recently as a year ago, the organization was high on him as a SS prospect. Fontaine has a nice frame at 6'2", but disappointed Braves' management last year with his work habits at Rome. Fontaine has shown no power, and was shifted to 2b when he proved to be a mediocre defensive SS. Frankly, I don't buy the Utley comparisons at all. But here's the thing. Fontaine is only 22 years old. He had 6 triples and 18 doubles last year. He hits for average, and he still has upside. Wren sold Fontaine low, in return for a minor league relief pitcher who probably doesn't figure in Atlanta's plans.

In the greater scheme of things, this trade probably doesn't matter to either team. But if Fontaine ever pans out, it is a huge mistake.

Braves fan since 1958.

by Messenger on Jan 18, 2008 10:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wher is your information coming from????

Everything I saw for myself of Chase in Rome was that he constantly worked on his game. He was usually the last out of the clubhouse after the games, and he took a lot of extra infield (with Tyler Flowers at 1st, no less) and really worked hard on the defensive side of things. He played 3 infield spots and a time or two in the outfield, and he was one of the most intense guys on the field. His work habits were excellent.
Losing Chase Fontaine could come back to bite the Braves.

by secondbass on Jan 18, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's good to hear

I defer to your observations. You would know this better than I would. I was paraphrasing comments that have been made by other observers of the organization, and they could be wrong. (That has certainly happened before.)

Anyway, the point of my post was that Wren sold Fontaine low. You and I would agree there. As I suggested, adding Fontaine to the Ridgway deal was unnecessary. Wren is betting that Fontaine will not pan out, and he made this bet in order to obtain a 27 year old relief pitcher who will probably never see Atlanta for any significant length of time. It is curious.

Braves fan since 1958.

by Messenger on Jan 18, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True about selling low...

....I personally think Fontaine will be a solid guy one day, but the Braves have such depth at the middle infield positions, I guess he was the odd man out. Escobar and Johnson are young, then there's Fisher, Hicks, Travis Jones, and more....

by secondbass on Jan 18, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, that is true

It's certainly true that the Braves' organizational chart is deep at the middle infield positions. Escobar and Johnson are young, and Lillibridge and Prado have also proven everything they can prove at the AAA level. So Wren is trading from strength here.

And it's also true that Chase Fontaine has not demonstrated productivity yet above low-A.

But there is another way of looking at this. Kelly Johnson has exactly one year of experience as a second baseman, and is two years' removed from Tommy John surgery. Like everyone else, I was surprised and impressed by what Johnson showed in 2007, but it's still too early to be sure he can duplicate that level of performance every year. (I suspect he can, but I wouldn't bet my house on it.) The organization is getting close to the point when a decision must be made on Martin Prado, too. So unless Omar Infante turns out to be better than billed, or unless Diory Hernandez and JC Holt have a higher major league ceiling than we have been brought to believe, there is a pretty good chance that Brent Lillibridge might soon be the only major league-ready alternative at SS or 2b. With that possibility in mind, one could envision a realistic scenary in the next two years where Chase Fontaine, developing at AA, might be a fortuitous asset. Hopefully one of the other kids can step up and take advantage of the opportunity.

So I suppose this boils down to whether Ridgway can actually produce. Looking at his Ks and BBs since 2003....

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/Jeff-Ridgway.shtml

....it's fairly obvious that he throws hard but doesn't have good command. The Braves have already dumped lefties Makay McBride and Will Ledezma for poor command and control. I understand why Wren is worried about Mike Gonzalez' availability, but I can't see how Ridgway can help Atlanta's bullpen unless his control suddenly improves qualitatively over what he has shown in every previous season of his career.

The Renteria - Jurrjens/Hernandez trade was received positively by Braves fans who understand Atlanta's pitching staff needs reinforcements. The Devine/Richmond - Kotsay may have set off some red flags. I won't miss Willy Aybar, but I hope we don't end up missing Fontaine, Devine, and Richmond.

It's fun to debate these things. In the final analysis, Frank Wren has something to prove. Wren is JS's hand-picked successor, and has spent years at JS's side preparing for this role. But Wren was notably unsuccessful in his previous GM stint at Baltimore, where Wren had a tendency to deal young talent impatiently. So until Wren accomplished something of note as Atlanta's GM, many fans will be jittery, and understandably so.

Braves fan since 1958.

by Messenger on Jan 18, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Betemit

I may be wrong, but this looks like the end result of trading Wilson Betemit. I getting this reliever for Betemit and Fontaine doesn't look so good. Betemit was certainly better than a career minor league pitcher.

by MurphyHOF on Jan 19, 2008 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ridgway

This trade does make sense. There's no possible way Aybar would have had a welcoming comeback to the clubhouse. Also, there is a good chance mike may not be back in the bullpen at all. Tommy John is tough to come back from. The loogy will pay off. I'm sure if Ridgway looks good in march, may spend a little time in Richmond. But there's a solid loog down the stretch. As far as looosing Aybar, there's other good options. Lillibridge will probably be on the opening day roster. Martin Prado did all the right things last year, and infante of coarse granted he's able to make a speedy recovery. I really think there's a good chance this team will be able to put it together, and play consistent ball. Enough to keep 1 or 2 up on the mets/phils. Every position has depth, and I think thats something the frank wren haters need to look at. Oh yeah, there hasn't been one pitch thrown in the 2008 season. you guys should hold your opinion until maybe 2009 or 2010.

by slinkyb on Jan 18, 2008 10:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Well....

Aybar was out of options, and would not have made Atlanta's April roster. So trading Aybar was a dump. No problem.

And I agree it could be a good thing for the future of the club if a role opens up for Lillibridge.

However, you might want to take a closer look at Ridgway.

2007 31 BBs in 63 INN

2006 19 BBs in 56 INN

2005 36 BBs in 45 INN

2004 19 BBs in 35 INN

2003 41 BBs in 95 INN

Ridgway walks way too many batters, and this has been evident throughout his career. The Barves just dumped lefties Macay McBride and Will Ledezma for the same problem, but at least they had significant ML experience.

Braves fan since 1958.

by Messenger on Jan 18, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That is a very good point...

You know, it seems that seeking a lefty reliever has been at the root of all these moves if you go back over the past few years...

Trade Laroche for Mike Gonzalez....
Traded McBride for Ledezma...
Traded Ladezma and Startup for Ring...
Traded Ascanio for Ohman...
Now traded Aybar for Ridgeway....

by bravessuperbeast on Jan 18, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

you forgot...

We also traded Salty et al for Mahay and some guy named Tex.

by B Agate on Jan 18, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Difficult history with lefty relievers

Yes, it does seem that the Braves have struggled more than most other competitive ML franchises to create bullpen stability in general, and to stabilize the "loogy" and closer roles in particular. The Braves are certainly not the only ML franchise to have these problems, but most other serious contenders seem to have more stability than the Braves in these relief roles.

Regarding the lefty reliever role, the Braves have had a lot of trouble since Mike Remlinger and Chris Hammond departed following the 2002 season. In 2003, Ray King was inconsistent, and walked 27 batters in 59 innings. In 2004, Armando Almanza and CJ Nitkowski flopped prior to the ill-fated late-season acquisition of the Tom Martin. In 2005, Martin and Macay McBride were awful, and John Foster wasn't much better. In 2006, Remlinger had a disastrous return to Atlanta, and McBride walked 32 batters in 56 innings. Then in 2007, Mike Gonzalez was effective before his elbow injury, and Ron Mahay was effective later, sandwiched around poor performances by Macay McBride, Steve Collier, and Will Ledezma. But Mahay is gone now through free agency, and Gonzalez is still on the shelf with his rehab. Nobody knows when Gonzalez will return, or how effective he will be when he gets back.

In view of this saga, one can understand why the Braves are stockpiling lefties (Royce Ring, Will Ohman, and now Jeff Ridgway). And in hindsight, it is remarkable how many trials and tribulations the Braves have endured over their lefty relievers in the last five years.

The closer role is another interesting story. John Smoltz was lights-out in 2002-04, but never viewed himself as a permanent closer. So Smoltz returned to the Braves' starting rotation in 2005, when Dan Kolb flopped and Kyle Farnsworth had to be acquired late in the season. Farnsworth then choked in the Braves' key 2005 playoff game against Houston. After the season, Farnsworth bolted for the Yankees. In 2006, Chris Reitsma and Jorge Sosa were terrible, and Kenny Ray was not much better in the final analysis. So the Braves imported Bob Wickman, who pitched well in 2006 but blew up in 2007. Now the Braves are depending heavily on Rafael Soriano, who has good stuff but has saved only 13 games in his career.

On paper, the Braves' bullpen is deeper and more talented in 2008, although Soriano will have to prove he can close. If he can't, there will be trouble. But he certainly has the pitch repertoire and the mental toughness for that job. If Soriano thrives in the closer role, the Braves have lots of young relievers with good stuff to get to the ninth inning. Of course, it will help a lot if Mike Gonzalez can make it all the way back.

Braves fan since 1958.

by Messenger on Jan 18, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah yes...

This is very true thank you...

by bravessuperbeast on Jan 18, 2008 3:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

There hasn't been this much action...

...in the Braves Organization since Jane Fonda was found under Ted Turner's desk with a mouth full of...<Fill in the Blank>

Actually, this <Fill in the Blank> thing could be fun. What would Jane Fonda have a mouth full of under Ted Turner's desk. Winner will receive a prize courtesy of Gondeee... Cleanliness would be appreciated so as not to tick off the anti-profanity crowd.

Crosby The Anti-Gondeee

by crosby on Jan 18, 2008 8:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs