The Difference Between Braves Pitchers Mike Minor And Brandon Beachy
by gondeee on Feb 23, 2012 8:27 PM EST
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PrintAtlanta Braves starting pitchers Mike Minor and Brandon Beachy have a few things in common. They're both young talented hard-throwing pitchers with a chance for a great career. They were even roommates last year. And this year they will both probably be in the Braves starting rotation on opening day. Of course, how each of them approach whether they will make the rotation or not is where they differ greatly.
As SBNation-Atlanta pointed out earlier tonight, Mike Minor has apparently suggested that if he's not in the rotation, then he should be traded. Here is the quote:
"But after a month or two, somebody’s got to go [when Hudson returns]," Minor said. "Overall, it’s not really – it’s about making the team, but if … I can control my third pitch and have a decent fourth pitch, then there’s no reason I shouldn’t pitch in the big leagues somewhere. If they don’t have room for me here, then there’s no reason they shouldn’t trade me or just do something with me."
Now we'll probably find out tomorrow that he was put on the spot by a reporter, so he'll walk that comment back and try to run away from it -- and he should. That kind of talk is certainly not the way Braves players usually carry themselves. I'm pretty sure that Minor's manager doesn't want this kind of attitude or entitled approach to making the team in his clubhouse. He'd prefer Brandon Beachy's approach:
"Knowing Beachy, he still thinks he has to make this club," manager Fredi Gonzalez said. "In his mind, which is a good mindset to have, is ‘I have to make the starting rotation.’ He's not going to let his guard down."
The difference in those two mindsets is night and day. Minor feels he's entitled to a rotation spot, based on his own judgements, while Beachy goes out and competes for one even though he's penciled in as the third or fourth guy in the rotation.
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My take is, 1): He feels he is ready and able to make a major contribution; and 2): He knows the team is loaded with quality starters, including younger guys like Teheran and Delgado, who could potentially move ahead of him with strong showings, and also feels some apprehension and anxiety about where he stands. So, he makes some ill-advised stupid comments to a reporter. The team will not over-react and he will not make the same mistake again.
Come on now, read Minor's quote again
He specifically says “IF I can control my third pitch and have a decent fourth pitch, then there’s no reason I shouldn’t pitch in the big leagues somewhere.” There is nothing that suggests that Minor thinks he is entitled to a rotation spot. Instead, he’s saying if he does exactly what the team has likely suggested is the one thing he needs to work on and they still don’t have room for him, then it might be time for the Braves to look at trading him (and rest assured if he does those things and still can’t earn a spot the Braves will be looking to deal at least one of their SP).
I usually like the writing here, but this is an absolutely terrible, tabloid type article. I thought this blog was above that sort of stuff. You’re basically just taking a quote, disregarding what was said, reading your own meaning into it, and then using your take away as the basis for ripping a player.
but you dont get the sense
that hes sort of implying that he already has control of his third and 4th pitch?
" if they dont have room for me"….
its not about the Braves having enough “room” for Minor
its about Minor earning his spot on the team when everyone is given an equal chance to do so.
why would we send out our 6th best starter?
He isn't implying anything, you're reading meaning into his quote
If anything, I think its more likely that the Braves told him either at the end of last season or coming into camp this season that those are the things he needed to work on to take the next step. If he does those things and the Braves still don’t have room for him, then the Braves are absolutely loaded at SP and should be looking to trade an SP for help elsewhere.
It doesn’t matter whether he’s the second coming of Strasburg, you don’t say that to your team, especially when that team has a history of frowning down upon these sort of comments. He can have control of his third, fourth, and add another seven pitches; it doesn’t matter. That makes him sound like he’s an entitled idiot.
by frozendesert on Feb 23, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
How does it make him sound entitled?
He’s basically saying IF I do all the things the Braves have told me I need to do and they still don’t have room for me, then maybe they need to move a SP. Being entitled would be claiming that you don’t need to do anything more to earn a spot on the team.
Look, its easy for you to rip on the comment when you’re not in his situation. Pitching is inherently dangerous activity and Minor doesn’t earn much more than minimum until he hits 3+ years of service time. You’d probably get frustrated eventually if you had already more than proven yourself in AAA and then did what the team said you needed to do and then still got sent back to AAA where you have to keep wasting your limited bullets while getting no closer to really getting paid.
It’s up to him to prove it on the field and just simply be better than Teheran and Delgado.
If he can’t do that, he should be traded he’s right.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Even if he isn’t, if he’s performing up to standards as a #2-#3 starter, even if the other guys are #1-#2 types, having him in AAA is a waste.
You should trade him in such a situation.
This is no surprise
Mike clearly had a case of the red ass when he was sent down last season and when he was promoted later in the season,the orifice on his shoulders was clearly on display.Initially his performance suffered from it..To his credit,he eventually got over his little tantrum and the real Mike Minor reappeared.
Down the road,there are too many young pitchers on this roster that will all come due to get paid,all around the same time.It is very important to to make the right decisions as to who to trade and who to go forward with.You can bet that Mikes red ass last year and these kinds of comments stand to eventually make one of those decisions much easier.
Simply trading him is easier said than done
you have to have a trade partner willing to give good value for him to make a deal happen.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I don’t think that will be too hard. I’m concerned a bit that teams know what a glut we have and will try to buy low, but I think there will be enough interest that we’d get fair value.
I’d want an A prospect+ B prospect more then an established big leaguer right now though, unless it’s a rookie.
You hit on it though
teams can see the glut, and see Minor’s comments, and try to buy low. And Wren has shown time and again, he’s not selling low.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Deadline is out best time to deal a pitcher- the demand will be highest then, and teams won’t want to get outbid. Also, we’ll know if Pastornicky’s panning out by then, and where improvements would help the most, and if it’s worth making them.
(If the Braves are tied for 1st or close, it’s worth going for it a bit, if 10 games out, trade for prospects.)
And you don't think he realizes its up to him?
That was the entire point of my post. He believes he will pitch well. I would hope he is confident in his abilities.
He is implying...
That if he’s pitching well, he’s better than a lot of the team’s other starting pitching prospects, which may or may not be true. Even if he’s pitching really well, Teheran or Delgado may be the better starter. More than a rotation’s worth of starters being really good is not an unrealistic outcome. Should he be traded in such a scenario?? Maybe, maybe not.
I think this situation is being blown out of proportion, but not necessarily out of context. DOB said on his twitter account that Minor said it in the context he offered in the story, that it was a statement akin to an ultimatum, if not a direct one.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Feb 24, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
If Delgado or Teheran prove to be better starters this year while Minor is pitching well
Then obviously the Braves should be looking hard at potential deals where they can move either him or another SP to get better elsewhere. I don’t see any implication that he will be better than those guys for sure if he’s pitching well. He’s just saying he will be good enough to start in the majors if he’s pitching well and if the Braves don’t have room for him it makes sense to see what they can get for him.
As for DOB’s claim, it may or may not be true. Do you really think he would openly admit to selectively quoting Minor in order to make his statement read like an ultimatum (which is still doesn’t even read like IMO) when it clearly wasn’t intended that way?
In DOB’s particular case, I’d go with his interpretation over Minor’s most recent clarification. It’s a long season, and there’s no reason for DOB to get himself locked out of getting remarks from players this early. Being the beat writer for the team isn’t going to prove advantageous if the players won’t speak candidly with him because of a flap of this sort before the season even begins.
I agree the team should be looking at potential deals – even if Minor doesn’t pitch well, or one of the other guys falters a bit early on in the season. The only real spot where we disagree is your last sentence of the first paragraph.
I feel he’s saying, “If I’m pitching well, play me or trade me,” and you don’t feel quite that way. I don’t disagree that he should be pitching somewhere in the majors if he’s pitching well – I thought he was plenty ready last season. I just don’t think he’s in the position to be asking or telling anyone what to do with him, even if he’s lights out.
But, like I said, none of this is nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. Everything will sort itself out on the field (over the next 4-5 months, rather than by ST’s end). If he’s on the team when the dust settles, great. If he’s in the minors or on another ballclub, the team has the depth to cover his loss.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Feb 24, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
"If I’m pitching well, play me or trade me,"
The problem with that interpretation is he never says anything to that effect. He just says if they don’t have room for him, there is no reason not to trade him or do something with him, and he’s 100% right. If our starting rotation really is that deep, then there is no reason we shouldn’t trade him.
BTW, I went through DOB’s twitter feed and I don’t see him saying anything like what you’re implying. Hell, he even himself admits that Minor has a point, he just could’ve stated it a little more wisely. Isn’t that basically admitting that he knows Minor didn’t really intend it as an ultimatum of any kind, he just didn’t word it well?
No, he doesn't specifically say that
notice the elipses after “if”? That means there were words in between there. So your specific quote is wrong. Simply wrong. And you are doing exactly what you accuse another of in that last sentence replacing “a player” with the writer of the article.
And even if he did those things, and there wasn’t room, you shut up, keep working hard, and your opportunity will come, here or elsewhere. Saying what he did in public shines a very poor light on him, not only here, but if he ends up elsewhere then he walks in with a stigma already attached.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Right, and journalists shouldn't use an ellipsis (not ellipses are the shapes) if it changes meaning
So why would you assume what was left out effects the meaning of his statement? Why would he leave the if in before the ellipsis if it wasn’t related to the following statement.
And how is my last sentence anything like what I’m saying Gondee did? First of all, I’m not writing a post on a major blog about Gondee. Second, I’m not making assumptions about what he meant. He came out and specifically said “Minor feels he’s entitled to a rotation spot.” I’m not making any such assumptions about Gondee’s opinion. He laid it right out there.
And "effects the meaning of his statement" is not "specifically said"...
for someone who likes to point out what words mean, you should be able to recognize the difference in those two statements.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
Good one bro…
I mean I pointed out the correct meaning of baseball terms on a baseball blog…not really the same thing you’re doing.
See also the ellipsis/ellipses comment
define specific? The fact that they are there is an obvious indication he didn’t “specifically” say that. He said close to that, maybe meant that, but his “specific” words are not all in there. In the words of Col. Lange, “it is helpful to know what words mean”.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
And that was in response to your comment about specifically
I’m not one to randomly bring out definitions on a blog comment section, but apparently you are.
Actually, you have done exactly that before
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
sorry I meant random definitions
I just pointed out the difference between command and control. Why are you so upset about that still?
I also mentioned at the time that it was nit-picking
My only aim was to enlighten.
In direct response to words being used isn't random
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
Upset would not be the correct word either
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agree with Mr Sanchez!
Minor is way too smart a person to let his frustration come out in a stupid quote. It doesn’t matter what he meant! It’s not the Braves way. You don’t put your own interest in front of the teams. He’s getting paid! Go earn your money and teams will be begging for you, including the Braves. There was no good to come out of his comments and he’s professional enough to know that… Tell your pitching coach or your pastor if you’re about to bust, but don’t talk to the media. The media aren’t there to be your friend. They are doing their job and catching someone talk too much is part of it.
Mike needs to clear this up quickly and learn a lesson. You’re in the majors now! Act like a pro!
His point should be to pitch lights out and let the team decide on his status based on what’s good for the TEAM and not his personal career. It just doesn’t look good. Love his ability and this desire but if you want to have a good career then worry bout what you’re suppose to do and not what the organization does.
Agreed ... 100%
You can tell there are breaks in the dialogue of the interview – after looking at DOBs article – shame on SB Nation on taking this and stirring the pot. Let’s all take a deep breath and relax !
by bravesfaninchitown on Feb 23, 2012 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
The point is
That this is something you never (or almost never) hear out of a Braves player. Regardless as to whether it was misconstrued in the article, you do not hear Braves players say anything that remotely resembles something that can tangentially touch the idea of “asking for a trade.”
At the end of the day the game is in Minor’s hands. The Braves obviously think highly of him, as I imagine he would have been an attractive trade piece the last year or so. He just needs to go out and pitch.
But that isn't the point, it's your point
We’re arguing about the message Minor intended to convey by his ambiguous statement. You’re arguing about whether he should have made such a statement. That’s a whole different debate entirely.
Now, on to your point: I agree with you that quotes like that hurt far more than help, and I think everyone (us, Minor’s teammates, and Minor himself) wish he hadn’t said it. But I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt, because
1) We don’t know the context of the quote and can’t judge his mindset when he said it
2) We don’t even know the full quote
3) People phrase things poorly all the time, and
4) In cases of ambiguity—and I believe all our rancor proves that the quote is, at best, ambiguous—it’s fairer to Minor (who, as far as we know, is a good guy) to presume the non-petulant interpretation.
Sposed to be SEC
unfortunately
even though gondee is the person in charge of the blog, he tends to be the more dramatic/sensationalist writer on here.
Mark Bowman talked to Minor and clarified what he meant:
"@mlbbowman Minor says his message was if he has not earned a lasting spot in the Majors by next year, the team should trade him.
I don’t see what’s wrong with a player who feels he should belong in the major leagues.
it smacks
of insecurity a little also. beachy is down to get dirty in spring training and fight it out cause he knows he can win the job. the only reason a guy as young as minor is saying hes “earned” it already is cause he doesn’t think he will project favorably compared to our other studs.
Where exactly did he say he earned it?
I’d suggest you read the actual quote closely.
You need to do the same, and you're making up the idea that the Braves told him what to work on
they may have, may have done something else, you are 100% speculating there.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
And you don't see the difference between giving a guy the benefit of the doubt and assuming the worst?
I’m advocating we simply do the former instead of the latter
if that's what you're advocating
it’s coming across excessively aggressive.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
If I sound aggressive, its because I hate this sort of journalism and thought Gondee was above it
Yeah, I find it really disappointing that he’s turned to blowing quotes out of proportion and outright twisting what was said to make a story.
↑
You’re overlooking the fact that Minor even hinted that he should be traded. Had he not said those specific words, no matter the context, then there would be no backlash.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
I don't think he's hinting at is as much as just being honest
What he’s saying is true, and for Braves fans its a good thing. Mike is saying if he develops as expected and there still isn’t room for him then the Braves should consider trading him. If there isn’t room for Minor, that means the Braves already have at least 5 pitchers pitching well. Obviously they should consider trading him, or any of the 5-6 other SP for that matter, if that comes to pass. Do you disagree?
Yea I agree, and he says, that he is just being honest. But does he have the right/privilege of being brutally honest yet? I don’t think his honest appraisal has any importance, and I’m a bit worried that he thinks it should…
"But if you just talk, I've found your mouth comes out with stuff." -Karl Pilkington
What makes you think he believes his appraisal has importance?
He’s getting asked questions. Someone else may have already mentioned the possibility of a trade earlier in the Q&A. Its entirely possible the mention of a trade grew naturally out of the conversation and he merely gave his honest opinion.
I mean he says that if he pitches well he should get to start. Even though it is conditional, and logically show, it still implies that he thinks the job is his to lose. Maybe saying that he thinks he is entitled is a little strong, but he does seem to think that he has the right of it in his analysis of the situation, when his analysis is really irrelevant.
"But if you just talk, I've found your mouth comes out with stuff." -Karl Pilkington
The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody."- Jean Jacques Rousseau
↑
Most of us agree with the statement Minor made; we just don’t think he should be making it publicly. I’m not exactly sure of his service time—-I know he’s made starts in each of the last two seasons and doubt he’s eligible for ROY—-but he’s basically a rookie. A rookie has no business mentioning trades, especially when it’s well over a month prior to start of the season, before spring training has even started.
Backlash comes from the words “trade” and “me” being put together. It has the negative stigma of demanding a trade when a player uses those words together, even if it’s not totally a demand. Players need to be smart enough to realize that even under perfectly innocent context, saying what Minor said is going to cause this type of reaction. While he didn’t specifically demand a trade, he set his demand on what he wants and expects. It’s not the place of a player to initiate this type comment, it’s the organization’s.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
The only reason there is a reaction
Is because of how DOB and Gondee chose to portray the comments. They both chose to say he demanded a trade when he did no such thing. The problem is our society as a whole has apparently never learned reading comprehension.
↑
We’ve all the seen the quote for ourselves. Minor specifically said, “If they don’t have room for me here, then there’s no reason they shouldn’t trade me…” That’s Minor’s quote, nobody put words in his mouth.
Minor should not have mentioned a trade; this one is on him. If he was baited into it by reporters asking if he thinks he should be traded, based on certain scenarios, then he should have said, “I’m just going to go out there, work hard, and pitch my very best. That decision is left up to the Braves organization, I can’t speculate on that.” If there was bait and Minor took it, then all this is his fault. Yes, he was being honest and opinionated. No, this is not the right issue for his honesty or opinion.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
So where did he demand the trade again?
Because that’s what I’ve seen both writers talk about even though it never happened. Sadly, most people here don’t even bother to read the actual quotes and just take DOB’s and Gondee’s word for it.
↑
I never said he demanded a trade. Try again. You’re completely ignoring the point I made and still focusing on what you thought I said, but I didn’t really say. Congratulations! You remind me of my ex-girlfriend
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
I never said you said he demanded a trade3
Its not all about you my man. There are plenty of people in this thread who have talked about Minor’s demand either because they didn’t read the quote and trusted Gondee or because they suck at reading comprehension or both.
You do try to make us all sound like mindless sheeple. Had Gondee posted purely Minor’s quote and no other commentary, the comment section here would look exactly the same. There would be folks interpreting it as he demanded a trade/was out of line/ did not demand a trade//was not out of line, etc.
We can think and interpret for ourselves, and really don’t need any help from DOB or Gondee to portray the comments.
My take: He didn’t demand a trade, but his comments were dumb witted and out of line, however honest and true the comments might be.
If he allowed himself to be baited, too bad and lesson should be learned. If he wasn’t baited and spoke freely, that is a dumbass moment because what he said can EASILY be interpreted as an ultimatum. That is not what a 24yo kid with very limited MLB experience and somewhat limited upside should be saying.
Bottom line is he needs to beat the 2 people he is competing with for the 5th spot.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
There would be folks interpreting it as he demanded a trade/was out of line/ did not demand a trade//was not out of line, etc.
Like I said in the comment you’re replying to…
The problem is our society as a whole has apparently never learned reading comprehension.
↑
The problem is our society as a whole has apparently never learned reading comprehension.
And apparently neither have you. Unless you’re purposely ignoring the whole, “we would feel the same way but we wouldn’t be dumb enough to say it to the media” sentiment that most of us have about Minor’s comments.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
Read through the thread again
You have people constantly either talking about the demand for the trade or the sense of entitlement because they mistakenly take Minor’s words to imply that he has already earned a spot.
Except, that’s exactly what he said…
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Quote where he says it then
He merely said IF he was making the necessary improvements, THEN he should make the team
I've already done it once
But here you go again.
Show me in the following quote where he says IF he makes improvements THEN he should make the team:
“I feel like I proved myself,” he said. “I was in Triple-A all last year pretty much. The year before I had some time [in the majors]. I’m getting older every year, so there’s no reason for me to be sitting in Triple-A.”
He straight up says that he has proven himself and that he should be on the team.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
He says he feels he proved himself
When he says there’s no reason he should be sitting in AAA he’s obviously assuming he will be pitching well (as he should). Everyone knows if they don’t pitch well, they could get sent down.
You are reaching here…just give it up.
Minor said what Minor said.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not reaching
Immediately after talking about how he pitched last year, he brings up that he shouldn’t be sitting in AAA. I think its pretty obvious he’s assuming he at least pitches as well as he did last year.
I’m done.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
You’re making wide-swept generalizations of “society as a whole”, insulting the many to denend the one who actually did say something stupid. What he said is up for interpretation, yes. But interpretation being what it is, is subjective. But to my first point, I do have a problem (as I’m sure most here do as well) with your insinuations that we on this board wouldn’t know what to think apart from Gondee’s or DOB’s “sensational” portrayal. If you want to be so adamant about a dumb remark by an unestablished player, go ahead. Apparently, the Braves brass are equally annoyed by his comments, so take from that what you will.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
by walknbalk on Feb 25, 2012 1:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Its not a generalization
Because in no way is it meant to apply to everyone at the individual level. That’s what “as a whole” means. Read through the comments again, see how many people talk about the demand or Minor’s belief that he has already earned a spot. There are a whole hell of a lot of people saying that in spite of the fact that anyone with decent reading comprehension skills that reads the comments can easily see neither of those things were ever said.
If you think he’s only saying he belongs IF he pitches well, then I challenge your reading comprehension.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
if … I can control my third pitch and have a decent fourth pitch,
What exactly do you think that means?
Let's not pick and choose our quotes, ok?
Let’s include the whole thing.
…but if … I can control my third pitch and have a decent fourth pitch, then there’s no reason I shouldn’t pitch in the big leagues somewhere. If they don’t have room for me here, then there’s no reason they shouldn’t trade me.
In the quote I gave you above, Minor says there’s no reason he shouldn’t be in the Braves rotation.
In this quote, he is saying that if they don’t have room for him, they should trade him.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
No he isn't
Do you not understand how if-then statements work?
I sure do
IF they don’t have room for me THEN there’s no reason they shouldn’t trade me.
IE – IF I am not in the rotation, THEN they should trade me.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
You're ignoring the first if-then statement
The one where he says everything that follows is IF he pitches well.
And you’re ignoring the entire statement made before that about how he feels he’s already proven himself and how he doesn’t belong in AAA.
That was not predicated on an “if/then”
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
That's not what he said
He said he feels like he proved himself (he’s not saying people have to agree) and that there is no reason to have him in AAA (obviously assuming he isn’t struggling). And again, you have no idea what the context of those statements is and what he said right before that quote.
So, I give the direct quote, you counter with “That’s not what he said” then proceed to tell me what he said by posting things that he didn’t actually say, but that you think he was implying…
Am I missing anything?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Please quote those parts again
He didn’t say he had proven himself, only that he felt he had. He could have said “I proved myself at AAA last year,” like you’re claiming he said, but he didn’t. He also didn’t actually say he didn’t belong in AAA, he said he’s getting older, so there isn’t a reason to have him continue dominating there when he could be in the majors.
And when you make those comments
that’s how they get portrayed. Minor is more than intelligent enough to know that.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
well, perhaps not. :/
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
He didn’t explicitly say that he has earned it, but he did said that he “didn’t want to wait,” which heavily implies that he thinks he has paid his dues. That, to me, reeks of entitlement. And regardless of the characteristics of the individual in question, young, unproven players should not say that they think it’s their time, or that waiting is unnecessary. This applies almost categorically across sports.
The point is that that is not a mindset very conducive to a team mentality. I’m more worried that he thinks that him not wanting to wait has anything to do with his future with the Braves. That is a very unhealthy mindset to foster in such a cyclical team sport.
"But if you just talk, I've found your mouth comes out with stuff." -Karl Pilkington
No minor leaguer wants to wait
Especially ones that have already logged over 130 great innings in AAA to go along with over 120 innings in the majors with good performance. If he’s still waiting it either means he’s pitching badly or the Braves are just too loaded with SP.
Yea, I think he has realized that the Braves have young pitching talent coming out of the ass. So I’m sure that he has looked at the face of his career in the near future and he seems to think that he should be the one who gets the odd spot.
"But if you just talk, I've found your mouth comes out with stuff." -Karl Pilkington
The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody."- Jean Jacques Rousseau
He was going to be our top trade candidate either late spring or by the deadline anyway, depending on the health of Hudson Hanson and Jurrjens.
You shouldn’t sip liquor.
-justincredubil02
no, Jack Daniel is whiskey.
-ChopMaster
"Welcome to the show, Brandon Beachy. I think you’re going to stay a while."
Not my take … since he’s the only Lefty, he’s a prime candidate to hang onto.
That said, if he reads the tea leaves AT ALL, he should shut his mouth and recognize that — in a full rotation situation — Jurrjens is the first trade candidate, and that if he simply does his job, he’ll certainly be in the mix with Atlanta.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I spit on Minor's quote
Spit as in LOOGY. This kid is under team control for several years. If management wants to use him as a lefty specialist and occasional spot starter for the next several years, that’s what his contract allows the team to do. The operative word being TEAM. Maybe keep him through his second arbitration year, then trade him to Colorado or Toronto to further develop his teamwork skills.
If, however, some team likes the guy enough to give us e.g. Michael Morse, Ross Detweiler, and Henry Rodriguez for him, maybe that would be okay, too.
Where did he say anything about a spot in the rotation?
Pretty sure he just said he should be pitching in the big leagues somewhere if he makes the improvements he needs to keep making.
And yeah, moving him to a LOOGY role (BTW a LHP whose best pitch is a change is a terrible fit as a LOOGY since they generally have nearly equal or even reverse platoon splits) just to spite him instead of moving him for value we can use elsewhere makes sense.
Much Ado About Nothing
Minor isn’t a rookie anymore. He narrowly missed out on the 5th starter job last year, and still made 15 starts for the team last year. He pitched well in Atlanta, and and has nothing left to prove in the minors. He has every reason to expect to be in the rotation this year. You don’t draft a guy in the first round just to let him rot in AAA.
Put yourself in Minor’s place for a minute. He’s probably tired of hearing how great Teheran, Delgado, and Vizzy are going to be. Nobody was talking about Minor this offseason. No one’s talking about the 3.83 ERA he had in 9 post all-star starts last season.
Plus, everyone on this team knows that there simply isn’t enough slots for all of the starting pitchers. These guys aren’t stupid. At some point, somebody is gonna get traded and they all know it. Minor is 100% correct. If the Braves send him down in order to make room for Julio “Golden Child” Teheran, than the team might as well just trade him. Even pitching in Kansas City or Pittsburgh has to be better than Gwinnett.
This was an off the cuff comment by a young kid. He’s not demanding a trade, or copping an attitude. If he feels like he’s earned a spot, then so what? Anyone would be pretty hard pressed to make a counter argument.
Shame on this site and others for stirring up trouble where there really isn’t any.
There is a difference between expecting that
and saying it to the Braves beat writer, who will run with it, and make it out precisely like he’s demanding a trade and has an attitude. He’s not an idiot, he knew or should have known exactly how that quote would be portrayed when he said it.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he wasn’t being an idiot. Vandy’s a good school, it’s not like the athletes take Swahili as a crib course there.
I think he knows that he doesn’t have a long-term future in Atlanta, especially with Gilmartin behind him, and wants to burn that ML service time clock so he can be a free agent at 30 instead of 32. That’s a lot of money, even if you’re a #3-#4 starter.
Really, as good as our starting depth is, it is doing a lot of our guys a disservice to their careers.
Whether he wants that or not
saying what he did to DOB is the wrong way to go about it. As said above, he knew how it’d come out, and how DOB would play it. Now, he has an issue to deal with in his own locker room, and if he’s ultimately traded, will come in with this stigma attached and be forced to overcome it. Right or wrong, he now will face the question for a long time of having attitude issues.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
An attitude issue because he said if the team doesn't have room for him
They should consider trading him? He’s not saying that they should trade him no matter what if he doesn’t make the team. He’s saying if he does the things he needs to do and there still isn’t room for him, they should trade him.
Yes, a player with his service time, being portrayed in this manner
will be branded as having attitude issues. It’s not like that hasn’t been said about him long before this comment.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm....
completely agree with everything you’ve posted so far, but when else has it been said he has an attitude problem (I’m legitimately interested).
by frozendesert on Feb 23, 2012 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
never anything outright that I can find
just allusions to it here and there/
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Was it alluded to or was it said?
Alright, now I’m done…
you'd be surprised
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
He did not demand a trade.
DOB can spin it whatever way he wants. He’s a beat writer. Its’ his job to generate web page hits. We’re not exactly talking about hard hitting serious journalism here. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time DOB created a story where none really existed. Don’t let tabloid journalism suck you in.
Minor has nothing left to prove in AAA. Everyone knows that. He’s good enough to be pitching on almost any other staff. Everyone knows that. If Minor’s not good enough to get a rotation spot this year, or the Braves simply choose to give the slot to Teheran for whatever reason, then it could be a very long time before he get another shot. Everyone’s still under contract in 2013.
by Bobby Hill#1 on Feb 23, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
That second graph is exactly right
but it doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
Spin machine
We don’t have a transcript of the whole conversation We really don’t have much to go on here. Just a couple of pretty innocuous comments by a young kid, and a heavy dose interpretive commentary, aka SPIN.
You’re reading way more into this than you should.
by Bobby Hill#1 on Feb 23, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he just assumes other people aren't idiots
And will see that he clearly in no way demanded trade?
Again
“how it would be portrayed”
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Right and people that actually take the time to read it and aren't idiots
Can see what was said no matter how DOB tries to portray it.
Teams and opposing players have better things to do than read this stuff
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 23, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe he just assumes other people aren’t idiots
Dangerous thinking.
by frozendesert on Feb 23, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Bobby Hill #1 .....
Great Comment – agree with you completely !! It’s refreshing to see someone with rational thoughts.
by bravesfaninchitown on Feb 23, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
You do know that’s the point of blogs. Stirring up trouble where there really isn’t any is what gets most of us through the offseason. I would consider this more shameful if it wasn’t reported the way it has been on this site.
Would you rather read more stories about how fat Chipper looks?
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 24, 2012 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
I know this most likely somehow was twisted or taken out of context
because there really is no reason Minor should be demanding or even insinuating anything!! He has not earned jack squat as far as I’m concerned. Maybe it is a sign of nervousness knowing he has three, but most likely two, young promising all-star prospects breathing down his neck and fighting him for a rotation spot. Or at least I truly hope this is taken out of context or twisted around, because like I’ve stated Minor has not earned jack.
He’s really shown flashes of brilliance at times, locating his pitches with accuracy and consistency, working around the plate like the 90’s Braves starters, and getting quite a bit of batters to swing and miss at times, BUTTTTT……
More Often then not….He has also shown immature pitching tendencies, he’s shown that he lacks a successful, consistent, and reliable 3rd and 4th pitch, he’s shown he hardly ever makes it out of the 5th inning, seemingly, and he’s shown that he has a tendency to mislocate his fastball at times.
When I see Minor is starting (or at least when I saw he was starting last year), I figured he would give the Braves 5 maybe 5 1/3 or 2/3 IP, 2-4 runs, 2 BB, and 3-5K’s.
And that is just about exactly what the Braves got everytime out of Minor…To me, that does not gaurentee a bag of balls….I know there is advantages of having LH’er in the starting rotation, but unless he has a good consistent spring where he shows he has matured as a pitcher I hope they don’t hand him anything …
I say trade Minor, regardless of his performance in Spring…that is IF The Braves are going to trade someone….Minor can most likely fetch whatever close to MLB ready position prospect the Braves need. The kid does have tools and talent, just for some reason I do not really see him fitting in with the Braves and his teammates…..He just has kind of always came off as an arrogant douche to me, but that is just my opinion…But if that truly is the case, The Braves really do not need him whatsoever. Trade Minor for either Wheeler and a B grade position prospect. Or trade him for McGehee, a B position prospect, and another C to C+ position prospect and ship him outta here.
The Braves have always prided themselves on holding Great character guys, and I personally believe a sound, functional, and family-oritented clubhouse that is comprised of great team chemistry has been a MAJOR factor in the Braves success for many years, and there is definitely no reason to change that now, if Minor does prove to be a douche and demand a starting spot. I personally hope Chip and Mac rip him a new one for these comments, if that is what he really said and meant.
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
by chicagobullies on Feb 23, 2012 10:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions
That’s it – let’s make a rash decision and trade him because of some comments that really are quite harmless and to insinuate he is not a great character guy is ridiculous. He is young and very talented and this is getting way overblown IMO.
by bravesfaninchitown on Feb 23, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
He's made comments before. Also it really depends on your definition of "young." He is 24 and will be 25 at the end of the year.
There also have been remarks about how he is not exactly a team player, and you do not have to know a player to know whether or not he is a good guy to be around.
Look at how people gravitate towards Chip, Huddy, Prado, Mac, J-Hey, Rossy, Moylan, Tommy, etc…. watch Minor when he gets into the dug-out…he seems to be a loner…
Just the things that he says, how he carries himself, he just really portrays himself as extremely arrogant. He reminds me quite a bit of Jordan Schafer, or at least that is the best comparison I can make for a guy you are familiar with.
24 or 25 whatever the case may be he is still relatively young in regards to a starting pitcher, but he is still an adult. He should still know how reporters twist things around, and take things out of context. He should still be aware of the things that he says, and he should not feel as if The Atl Braves owe him anything.
Now, if he stated that he would love to start this year, and he is working on his mechanics and pitches to be prepared to go into camp to battle it out…..Would this post even exist??
I am sure Beachy was asked and has been asked the almost exact same questions….Have we heard ANYTHING even remotely similar to this about Beachy? I think not….And they are very closely related in age….
Fact of the matter is that Beachy is a class act, a “Braves type” baseball player. He feels as if no matter what he does, he is not gaurenteed anything in baseball or life, and I believe Minor should take notes.
I’m not really saying get rid of Minor or give up on him. Because these comments really are NOT a big deal….I’m just saying Minor comes off as a douche, and if I had to or was going to trade one of The Braves starting pitchers it would be Minor….
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
by chicagobullies on Feb 24, 2012 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What comments has he made before? What comments have other people made about him?
I’m honestly interested in what was said.
When it's the beginning of the year...
Almost everyone will be a year older by year’s end.
I don’t get this line of thought, and I’m not trying to call you out on it specifically. So nothing personal. But several have brought this topic up in this particular story.
The baseball season itself is half a year long, without spring training or playoffs. Add in postseason and spring training, and you’ve got yourself eight or nine months of baseball. Pointing out that someone is going to be older by season’s end is kind of the epitome of pulling a Captain Obvious.
It doesn’t matter whether someone is 4, 24, or 64, they’re going to be almost a year older by year’s end. Maybe I’m unique, but my dad has never started a lecture with, “C, you’re 31 years old. In a year, you’re going to be 32.”
Yeah, dad, I know. That’s how time works…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
DOB I think conveniently left out...
the original question…which might have been “if you don’t make the rotation, how would it feel to go back to AAA for a 3rd year?”. Always helps to add context.
And of course, the bait is set. The kid’s frustrated and he’s 23. I think it’s normal to feel how he does…just not to say it. Of course, no one jumps on Chipper when he runs his mouth about guys playing hurt either…
"If you're looking around...then we're looking around" - Coach Paul Johnson
by TBuzz on Feb 23, 2012 11:05 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Can’t take that bait
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
Follow @AShirkey
by TurnerTheBurner on Feb 23, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
He’s 24 and will be 25 this year. He’s old enough to know better.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
He turned 24 two months ago
He won’t play a single game this season at age 25
Ok. He’s still 24 and will be 25 this year.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
It a misleading comment
He will be 24 this season season. When people talk about player age, its generally in the context of their baseball age. Minor’s baseball age for 2012 is still 24.
The misleading comment is that he is 23.
Nothing I said is misleading. What you said is absolutely false.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
No one said he is 23
And please point out one thing in that comment that is false. I’ll be waiting…
Good god
do you have some micro chip in your head that forces your brain to not process things that you read, but don’t want to believe?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
So you admit I didn't say he was 23 and nothing I said was false?
Because you’re just resorting to personal attacks now since you don’t have a leg to stand on
I never accused you of saying he was 23
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
Nixa on Feb 24 at 7:04
No one said he is 23
TBuzz on the 23rd at 11:05 in the comment justin replied to that started this part of this giant mess….
The kid’s frustrated and he’s 23
Probably an innocent mistake by TBuzz. So there’s at least one falsehood in your comment. I can’t believe I’m defending justin here, but the only implication of “baseball age”, whatever the hell that is, seems to be by you. Everyone else is saying simply how long it’s been since he was born.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
My bad on TBuzz's comment then
I’m not sure how you don’t know what the concept of baseball age is. Its used rather frequently in baseball discussions as in “Heyward had one of the best age 20 seasons ever.” Heyward wasn’t actually 20 all season, but his baseball age is still considered 20 since he played the majority of the year at 20.
I’m not sure how you don’t know what the concept of baseball age is. Its used rather frequently in baseball discussions
Say what? Who said I don’t know what that “concept” is? I’m more than familiar with it in terms of how old a player is during a season. I think it’s bs, because it can mislead what a player’s actual age is and doesn’t really mean a thing in the grand scheme of things. Age is a pretty easy thing to determine, without trying to get all fanciful about it. But “baseball age” has no bearing on this discussion however.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
You said you didn't
You’re the one who said…
"baseball age", whatever the hell that is
Read the comment you just replied to
that explains EXACTLY what “whatever the hell that is” meant.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I did
It specifically referred to the concept of baseball age.
For the last time...
I think it’s bs, because it can mislead what a player’s actual age is and doesn’t really mean a thing in the grand scheme of things. Age is a pretty easy thing to determine, without trying to get all fanciful about it. But "baseball age" has no bearing on this discussion however.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Which has nothing to do with you saying
You didn’t know what it is. Its not any more misleading than stating a person’s age as of Jan 1, which is exactly what justin did.
Where did I say I don't know what it is?
you can feel free to twist things that aren’t there, which you’ve been doing throughout this thread. But the fact of the matter is, I never said such a thing, and you are twisting words for your own trolling amusement.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Is this serious?
I can’t believe I’m defending justin here, but the only implication of "baseball age", whatever the hell that is, seems to be by you.
I’m not twisting what you said. You specifically added a clause after baseball age saying whatever the hell that is.
Wait, and I’m the one twisting words here? Dude, this entire damn post is based on Gondee twisting Minor’s words, yet somehow I’m the troll? Got it….
"whatever the hell that is" does not equal
what you twisted it into of “I don’t know what that is”. The meaning of “whatever the hell that is” has been given to you, twice now.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
See my comment at 11:34
and then again at 11:43. If you can’t comprehend them, then there’s no point in continuing. Either way, there’s probably no point in continuing.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Feb 26, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
How does that explain the meaning of
“baseball age”, whatever the hell that is
And
“whatever the hell that is” implies you don’t know what that is.
no, it could imply that, but it could also imply “this is a concept which I don’t value very highly”.
Layers of meaning beyond simple definitions do seem to get lost on you.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
by walknbalk on Feb 26, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good lord, he already spelled out how it could and did imply exactly that twice now..
Based on your comments, you have a binary perspective on everything. Either it means this, or it doesn’t, based on your own limited understanding.
Therefore, I can reasonably assume you cannot understand art, music, literature, poetry, humor, and even more basic forms of human expression.
I’ll explain to you the concept of multiple implications one last time:
“I don’t give a crap”:
could mean one really does not offer a present of feces for Christmas, Easter, Hannukah, birthdays, Valentines, or just because the intended recipient is ‘special’—as opposed to those who do.
Could also mean: I don’t care.
“whatever the hell that is”: a way of expressing how one does not have knowledge of “what that is”, or a way of expressing a bizarre, profane, irrelevant, unnecessary, obscene or disgusting opinion of the subject. It is a way of devaluing the subject.
Please mull over this for a while, class is now dismissed.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
by walknbalk on Feb 26, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I have never seen the phrase used in that way
I mean I can assign an arbitrary meaning to a phrase and claim someone is wrong for assuming it was meant in the generally accepted way to.
Did I say that he will be 25 this season? No, I said this year. 2012 is the year. He will be 25 before the end of 2012.
Good god, are we really having this discussion?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Who cares how old he is when the season isn't going on?
His birthday is 10 months from now. Your comment insinuates that he’s not far away from his 25th birthday when he couldn’t be much further away than he currently is.
Agreed
Newsflash: Assuming each month has roughly the same amount of birthdays, 83% of people will be a year older in 10 months. The rest of them will still be 10 months older.
Time works in mysterious ways…mysteriously consistent ways.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
My comment insinuates that Mike Minor is not 23, but rather that he is 24 and will be 25 this year.
Anything outside of exactly what I said is your mind insinuating something, not my words.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Why would you need to throw in he turns 25 this year?
Its 10 months from now. The vast majority of people are going to turn a year older at some point later this year.
Because the OP said he was 23. He’s not 23. He turned 24 last year and will turn 25 this year.
If you are trying to make something out of that statement, I suggest you go grab a beer and try to relax.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
↑
I can’t resist. Have to do this again…
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
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You can—and will—find anything to argue about. Then proceed to relentlessly bang your one and only point home, while ignoring any legitimate evidence to the contrary. You frustrate the masses, and make them want to physically assault you.
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So crack open an ice-cold Bud Light, nadir of the nitpick; and do us all a favor—please step away from the keyboard long enough to enjoy it.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
by CMassey on Feb 25, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
lol
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
Because I wasn't commenting on that
I was commenting on what I felt was a misleading statement about his age.
A "misleading statement" that is technically correct.
And technically correct is the best kind of correct.
He does turn 25 this year. It may be after the season, but it is still in 2012, aka “this year”. And that’s not really the primary part of the statement. Whether he turns 25 during the season, after the season, whatever, “he’s old enough to know better”.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I didn't say his comment was wrong
I simply added additional information about his age so it wasn’t as misleading
I’m 23 and I would be acutely aware of the fact that I am a part of a whole. I’ve understood that since I was 10. I agree that someone putting a microphone in front of him almost sets him up for failure. But there has to be a part of your mind that insists that the team is greater than you are. That is how you establish yourself as an essential part of the Braves franchise, not insisting that that is true. That kind of thinking is wisdom, and unfortunately Minor has indeed accepted the bait that set him up for failure.
"But if you just talk, I've found your mouth comes out with stuff." -Karl Pilkington
I think Minor should focus more on his 1.5+ WHIP, his 4.74 ERA, his 81 ERA+ instead of focusing on getting traded.
I wonder if the White Sox would be interested in a never-proven-anything, back-of-the-rotation lefty whose only successes have been the result of a mystery 3-4 MPH on his fastball?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 12:04 AM EST reply actions
If you actually read what he said
This whole line of thought was based on the assumption that he’s pitching well.
The whole velocity thing was overblown. The main thing to keep in mind is that he has above average velocity from the left side. He still regularly touches 93-94 in many of his starts. He just doesn’t sit there with every pitch because he struggles to command it with that velocity.
I said it in the other thread, but I’ll repeat it here.
That’s quite an assumption for him to make, based on what he’s been able to do in his 130-ish innings so far.
Anyone can say “If I’m playing well, I deserve to play”
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
He's not saying he will pitch will
He’s just saying if he does, he should be on the team since he’s already proven all he can in AAA. What he’s saying is 100% true.
Not really. If he’s pitching well, but 5 other guys are pitching better, he should not be on the team.
This really has nothing to do with Minor and everything to do with the guys who are better than he is.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
If he's pitching well and 5 other guys are pitching better
Then the Braves should be looking to deal one of those pitchers…which is what he said in the first place.
I’ve been saying that for years now.
And no, that’s not at all what Minor said.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
What is he saying then?
Because he specifically mentions what he needs to improve on and says if he improves on those things (i.e. pitches well) and there still isn’t room for him (i.e. 5 other starters are pitching better), then they should consider trading him (or make room for him by trading someone else)
He is saying he has nothing left to prove and that he deserves a shot.
Your defense of him is rooted in another statement he made where he talks about improving his 3rd and 4th pitch.
The first statement is where the problem lies.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
The first statement that Gondee didn't bother quoting here
Before tearing into Minor for the quote that I am talking about?
He didn’t say he has nothing left to prove, he said HE feels he has nothing left to prove, and that there isn’t a reason for him to be sitting in AAA (with the obvious assumption that he pitches like he did last year).
I have no words.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, this is a lost cause. Those who think in a circular fashion cannot be reasoned with.
The dude said what he said.
I don’t care if he thinks a 3rd or 4th or 9th pitch will make him grow purple butt hair or if he thinks those would make him into the next Glavine…
He has no business saying anything about trades, what he deserves, or how the management should run their business as it pertains to him, at least not publicly. He has yet to win even a 5th starter’s job out of ST, is not an incumbent starter from last season despite his experience (and “experience” is used loosely because he has not made even a full season’s worth of starts at MLB level).
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Except he still has to compete for the spot with Teheran and Delgado. That is not incumbent, and there could be a number of reasons which have nothing at all to with his status as to why Wren would say that.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Apparently you don't know what incumbent means
Barack Obama is the incumbent POTUS. That doesn’t mean he won’t have to compete for the position again later this year.
Completely irrelevant comparison, since it is a legal issue concerning how long the normal term of presidency is.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Fine
Tim Tebow is the Broncos incumbent starting QB, but he still has to compete for the job. You clearly just don’t understand what the word incumbent means. I don’t feel like arguing about definitions anymore.
Apparently definitions are your preferred vehicle of discourse.
incumbent: noun
the holder of an office or post
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/incumbent?q=incumbent
If Minor is an “incumbent”, he is the incumbent of the office or post that entails the he fight for his job with the likes of Randall Delgado and Julio Teheran, possibly other unforeseen candidates.
This is clearly “incumbent” in a different sort of way than say, Tim Hudson is an “incumbent”, or the way Tom Glavine was an “incumbent” after the 1998 season.
But true, it is fair to say I probably chose a poor word, or one could say I misspoke, which is easy to do and is the basis of this entire thread.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Some incumbent's are safer than others
I’m not sure why that is confusing.
Right, because I’m so clearly confused.
I defer to you, oh master of all definitions and synonyms!
If only your logic was similarly sharp.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Whatever
You said they were incumbents in different sorts of ways. They’re not. They’re both incumbents, one’s job just happens to be safer than the other’s. Its no different than two incumbent senators, one of whom is basically running unopposed and the other who is fighting to hold on. They’re still both incumbents.
I thought I pointed out already that using politicians as an example is invalid. Yet again, you use a fallacious argument. Senators, among other politicians, have forced limits on the amount of time they can be in office before they have to run for office again. I don’t know why you keep turning to this dumb argument.
And far as the word “incumbent” goes, I already admitted I chose the word poorly in this context. That doesn’t change the main point that Minor has not won any job as of yet, has yet to make even 25 big league starts, and he unwisely spoke up about how the front office should be treating him in this situation, regardless of how he qualified those potential decisions.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
"Senators have forced limits on the amount of time they can be in office before they have to run for office again."
You mean like how athletes have forced limits on the amount of time they keep their job before they have to compete for it again the next season?
Yes, exactly. Minor is not one whose contract or “term” has expired and thus is the reason he has to “run for office”, AKA compete for the 5th starter job yet again.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Everyone has to compete every year
What the hell are you even talking about?
Which makes it even dumber to publically say those things
pitch well, and the job is yours. No need to give DOB the chance to make you out to be an ass when that’s what’s likely to happen regardless.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Oh great
Justin’s found someone new to hate…
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
I don’t hate Minor at all.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
But this brings up an interesting question:
Who’s going to be your Nate McLouth this season?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 2:08 AM EST up reply actions
a PED suggestion?
WTF???
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m sure that’s actually what he’s focusing on… Jesus you people are like sharks at the smell of blood.
Seems to me like his only focus is a status as a starter in MLB.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
Would you rather he wasn't focusing on that?
And at no point in those quotes does he say anything about starting. He only said he should be on the MLB roster.
Yes, he’s literally only focusing on his status. He doesn’t even pitch any more, from what I hear. When he goes out onto the mound he just yells at the catcher to put him on the MLB roster.
This is probably your weakest attempt to date.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
No he throws a curve and a slider
He only threw the curve in 2010, but added the slider back in last year.
Minor has a point, but it is just one of those unwritten rules, you can’t just come out and say that. If you think your entitled to a spot in the rotation, go earn it not whine to a reporter. Maturity maybe the only thing that might hold Mike back.
by MVPrado on Feb 24, 2012 2:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions
That and the fact that he gives up a ton of base runners.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
His BAPIP and xFIP and all the other IPs point to him showing a lot of improvement once his numbers even out.
But that doesn’t matter; one poorly worded comment and that’s the end of it for you, isn’t it?
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Just something that doesnt need to be a part of the clubhouse. You can’t tell a beat writer that, come on.
by MVPrado on Feb 24, 2012 2:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think the comment was douchey as well
But leave it to Justin to immediately vilify someone and discount everything they have done and/or are capable of doing over one small thing.
Mike Minor is a very talented 24 year old lefty power pitcher. Those come around what…every 6-7 years or so? Until he actually creates a problem beyond one quote, I want him on this team and in the rotation if possible.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
But if he will come right out and say that, what happens if he does make the team and goes down to triple A when huddy comes back, then we need him to come back up if someone else gets hurt? That kinda attitude is like cancer, and cancer spreads.
by MVPrado on Feb 24, 2012 3:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I’d wait a bit before calling someone a cancer, especially when he’s never shown any attitude problems before. One out-of-context, incomplete quote in February shouldn’t be all the “evidence” we need to jump on a player.
A power lefty?
He tops out at 94/95 and usually sits around 91.
And what has Minor done, besides be mediocre at the MLB level with a good K rate?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
You realize that's well above average for LHP right?
That’s basically equivalent to sitting 92-93 and topping out at 95-97 from the right side since the average RHP throws 1-2 mph faster than the average LHP.
Mike Minor is not a power pitcher.
Do you realize that you just called a guy who’s knock in the scouting dept was a lack of speed on his fastball a power pitcher???
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Where did I call him a power pitcher?
And BA (the people who really questioned his velocity) have clearly been proven wrong. He has well above average velocity from the left side. That doesn’t necessarily make him a power pitcher, but then again I never said he was.
You are defending the statement that he is a power pitcher and even used numbers for LHP to back that statement up.
Let’s cut the crap. Do you think Mike Minor is a power pitcher?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
How am I defending it
I was putting the numbers into context. Sitting 91 and touching 94-95 is very hard for a LHP. Not to the point where I would call him a power pitcher per se, but he certainly fits that mold better than he fits the control lefty mold
So why are we still talking?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Example?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
I’ll ask again: Example?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
I just gave you the two examples
You incorrectly claimed I was saying things I never said.
No, I did not. In fact, I asked you to clarify exactly what you were saying.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
Do you even read what you write?
Do you realize that you just called a guy who’s knock in the scouting dept was a lack of speed on his fastball a power pitcher???
You are specifically saying I called him a power pitcher, which I never did.
You are defending the statement that he is a power pitcher and even used numbers for LHP to back that statement up.
You are claiming I am defending the statement that he is a power pitcher when I never said anything of the sort.
So you just jumped in the middle of a conversation that had nothing to do with you, attempting to give numbers that supported one side of the discussion, and continued to do so.
This conversation has stopped being about baseball. I’m done.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think they support either side
They just put those velocities into context compared to other LHP. If you think a RHP that sits 92-93 and tops out at 95-97 is a power pitcher than you should think the same of Minor. I wasn’t expressing any opinion of whether or not those numbers represent a true power pitcher
And I didn't continue to do so
You immediately started talking about how I said he was a power pitcher and I said you were wrong. You said I was supporting that argument and I said I wasn’t. I made a single comment to give some context to the velocities.
You will learn not to argue with Justin.
It goes nowhere fast.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Ha. You love trying to take cheap shots, don’t you?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 26, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
And arguing with nixa is clearly proving to be a productive area of discussion
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Good one...
At least I discuss and don’t go after the individual
Really???
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 26, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
How else would you define a power pitcher except by strikeout rate? Man, when you pick someone to dislike, you really run with it don’t you?
Why don't you go back
and read about how much I dislike Minor.
I’ve never even posted a negative thing about him until he decided that he is entitled.
And how would I define a power pitcher? One who throws the ball very fast. There are only a few true power pitchers in the MLB – and Mike Minor is not one of them.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
So a pitcher who throws 96 with a 6 K/9 is a power pitcher, but a pitcher who throws 91 with an 8.5 K/9 is not… got it. I also measure power hitters by how big their arms are.
Even if you’ve never said any thing negative about him, I have a feeling you’ll have plenty more to say at the slightest provocation from now on. :)
Depends
on his attitude about what he’s entitled to.
And yes, a pitcher who throws 96 is a power pitcher and a pitcher who throws 91 is not.
Ks =/= Power
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, the ability to strike people out often has very little to do with velocity.
Location
Pitch selection
Movement
Secondary pitches
Delivery
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Very true
I do believe in Minor’s case, his fastball allowed him to get a lot of Ks. I was looking at his pitchfx the other night and noticed that his fastball ranges in velocity from 85 to about 94.
If he could locate it with decent complimentary pitches (as he did reasonably efficiently last season) he will strike out a lot of batters – and it has very little with blowing a radar gun away.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a good analogy…
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 26, 2012 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure it's a bad idea for me to get involved...
…but according to Bill James, a power pitcher is defined as a pitcher who is top third in his league in strikeouts plus walks—for whatever that’s worth.
def not a power pitcher
He stays around 90-92 and CAN touch 94/95 but does it on rare occasions. Power pitchers are guys who stay at 95 and occasionally give you 97/98.
by drumzalicious on Feb 25, 2012 3:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
According to your definition of a power pitcher
There is one LH starter in baseball (Price) who qualifies as a power pitcher
What’s your point? I don’t believe it should matter whethere you’re a lefty or a righty. 95mph is 95mph.
by drumzalicious on Feb 25, 2012 11:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
LHP throw ~1.5 MPH slower on average
In general, people compare pitchers to those that throw with the same hand. Getting similar velocity on the left side is more valuable than getting it on the right side since players see that sort of velocity much less often.
I have no problem with anyone’s comment. I have a problem with all of the base runners that Minor gives up.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 24, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
facepalm.jpg
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
clever.jpg
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 25, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't say he thought he was entitled to a spot in the rotation
He said if he pitched well (presumably well enough to earn the spot) and there still isn’t room (because the Braves are loaded with SP), then perhaps the Braves should consider trading him (which they should if that happens…they should consider trading any of their SP for the right return).
aw, man...
Reading the headline, I thought this was going to be a stat-driven, intelligent breakdown of two of our young stud pitchers.
Instead, I got dumb, sensationalistic crap that we won’t remember in 2 weeks. Awesome.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
For the record, I will trust CB from now on when it comes to assessing a prospect's makeup...
I remember thinking to myself after one of his comments about Mike Minor…“How in the hell does CB know that he’s immature and difficult to deal with”?
"If you're looking around...then we're looking around" - Coach Paul Johnson
Looks like he’s wanting to “clarify” what he meant. Guess that’ a good thing though.
by MVPrado on Feb 24, 2012 8:15 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Regardless....
It doesn’t matter how he meant the statement.
It was a dumbass move.
He may want to call LoMo.
Anyone else
look at this from the perspective of Beachy being a guy from a small school, who has come from nowhere to be a great talent, while Minor, was the high pick from the major college program with all the credentials. Doesn’t surprise me that Beachy looks at everything from an “I have to earn every start I get”, while Minor feels entitled to it. Really like Beachy’s approach, could care less about what Minor feels he deserves.
Where does Minor imply he is entitled to anything?
His entire comment is based on the assumption that he pitches well. If he doesn’t pitch well, I’m sure he realizes he doesn’t get a spot in the rotation.
I like Minor
I’d hate to see him traded simply due to lack of left handed starters in our system. While what he said is unfortunate and definitely not Brave-like, I don’t think he should be villified for it. He’s still a young guy and was probably speaking out of frustration.
by airman in bama on Feb 24, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions
Love Beachy.
Braves finally have a lefty that can throw hard.
Would hate to see either traded. :(
If one could get the Braves an impact bat though, I’d be for trading one of them.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
Hmmm not sure how I feel about this
Love em both, not really a fan of that attitude, but he’s kind of right. He’s proven himself and is ready, it’s just an abundance of pitching to deal with.
"I heard that Tits was "well rounded" and his brother Cans was a "stand out." :D"
by Old Braves' Fan on Aug 18, 2010 3:05 PM PDT
This is crap
to the person who said that he was a loner… uh, wth? I’ve been to about 20-25 Braves games last year, and he seemed to be good friends with everybody. And guys, he said “if”. Stop blowing this out of proportion and making up stupid crap.
One team, One city, One dream ❤
Newsflash
24 year old well regarded LHP looking at another season in AAA would rather start for a MLB club.
Shocking and unprecedented.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Politically Correct
This type of media spin is why we have bland, politically correct responses from players in 99% of interviews. Everyone is avoiding the inevitable “trying to make a story out of nothing.”
"This stadium is upside down!!!" -Jim Powell, 4/5/2010
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