Braves Quote For The Day ... Hara Hachi Bu
by gondeee on Jan 5, 2012 4:02 PM EST
in Braves Quote For The Day
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PrintI came across this post on the ESPN affiliated Grantland blog, The Triangle (which I honestly didn't know existed until today -- I generally swear off anything remotely ESPNish, so excuse my ignorance). But this Jonah Keri person has an unfortunately accurate assessment of the Atlanta Braves expectation of Tyler Pastornicky as their starting shortstop this year:
There's nothing inherently wrong with giving young players a chance, and Pastornicky does have some real talent. Scouts like his defense, and the 22-year-old shortstop has stolen 120 bases over the past three seasons in the Jays' and Braves' minor league systems. What's frustrating is Atlanta's pathological urge to hold the line on salaries, perpetually plopping them into the middle of the pack among major league teams ($87 million payroll in 2011, 15th in MLB). Nothing inherently wrong with controlling costs either, and as one of the few corporate-owned teams left in baseball, perhaps it's to be expected. But the Braves have seemingly been one player away in each of the past three years, winning 86 games or more each time, but with just one first-round playoff exit to show for it. They could have made a run at Jose Reyes or Jimmy Rollins in lieu of depending on a rookie, cashed in some of their amazing young pitching depth for a legitimate middle-of-the-order bat, done anything to push them closer to an NL East title that should be in play with the Phillies aging and the Marlins and Nationals possibly a year or two away. Instead we get more Braves hara hachi bu, and a starting shortstop with zero power and iffy on-base skills. Pastornicky could pan out. But the Braves could have done better.
If you follow the link to the hara harchi bu article, it too is frighteningly accurate as to the 80 percentness of the Braves efforts the past few years. Anyway, good albeit depressing stuff on the state of the Braves. We have to remind ourselves to take a step back and view some of the Braves moves (or non-moves) through objective eyes instead of the rose-colored glasses we usually use to view the home team.
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Jonah Keri was one of my favorite writers at fangraphs. I hated it when he left to write for Grantland.
That was a good article and very on point. The Braves routinely are one of the cheapest teams in baseball when it comes to the draft and signing international free agents. Their farm system is really kind of bare once the big four of Minor/Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino are all on the major league roster. I would think that the Braves could easily afford a payroll in the 95M to 100M range with a draft/IFA budget in the 6M to 8M range. Hopefully the team is sold to a private owner who actually cares about the team and is willing to spend money on them.
I do disagree with Keri calling Martin Prado “deeply flawed”. I have no idea what he meant by that.
What is your basis for these assumptions regarding the Braves' payroll?
Because everything I have seen backs up the idea that the Braves’ spending is in line with revenue. Liberty doesn’t set the budget, the Braves’ front office higher-ups do. Yeah, they operate the team like a business, but that’s not such a bad thing.
And of course, the “private owner will fix everything” idea is a myth. Frank McCourt is a non-coprorate owner. So are the Mets’ owners, and Jeffrey Loria. Even if an owner raises payroll, there is no guarantee that this money will be spent wisely, particularly if the owner is very hands-on.
Or to use an example closer to our frame of reference, remember the first 15 years or so of Ted Turner’s ownership of the Braves? They weren’t exactly the team’s best years, as you may recall.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I also blog about weird statistics at JunkStats.
Follow @junkstats
by Jacob Peterson on Jan 5, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Incorrect. Liberty Media sets the budget, not the Braves front office.
I didn’t say a private owner would “fix everything”. I said that I wanted a private owner who cared about winning.
As I recall, the team had one of the best runs in modern history when Ted Turner was the owner. He couldn’t build the team overnight.
Disagree
I’ve read a dozen times that McGuirk, Sheurholtz and Wren set the budget, Liberty meets with them twice a year to discuss the team. Liberty is extremely hands off when it comes to the Braves. Wren and J.S. have said so repeatedly.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
That is completely false. Do you really think Frank Wren is going to say, “I would love to spend more money but Liberty Media is just too cheap to give it to me”. Liberty Media has instructed the Braves FO what they expect, which is to not lose any money. Thus, they set the budget.
The budget is set on revenue expectations, Liberty has nothing to do with it. Turn a profit, yes, it is run like a business, not a play-pretty.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Exactly. It is run like a business. I want it ran like a “play-pretty”…..just like Mark Cuban does with the Mavericks. Who in the world cares if the team makes a profit, other than the corporate owner and their stockholders?
What did Elvis say?
Buy it!
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Who in the world cares if the team makes a profit, other than the corporate owner and their stockholders?
Really? I think the vested interests of the Corporate owner and their stockholders are infinitely more important since its their collective livelihoods on the line. Winning and fan support are secondary to a profitable operation. I wouldn’t want an owner who wasn’t fiscally responsible.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
I know I sleep better at night...
Knowing our owners are comfortable.
Post-season success be damned!
GATA!
Write the Check then...
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Seriously?
Do you think a majority of fans give a hoot about the livelihoods of the owners, especially in cities like Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and other small market clubs?
Does the ownership group give a damn about my salary constraints when they raise ticket prices or charge me $8 for a beer? Give me a break.
We’re talking about sports, not business. I couldn’t care less about what houses, cars, steak dinners, etc. the owners get to have. I strongly doubt, if the Braves increased salary by a few million, they’d be out on the streets…
GATA!
If being represented by an Ownership that values its bottom line less than the ballclub's success on the field...
by all means please find that team and go root for it. Not saying that to be disrespectful, either.
The idea I am trying to implicitly get across is the issue of choice. Our owners make choices (budget, personnel, etc.) that in-turn impact the choices made by its Customers (aka, fanbase). Some choices are acceptable to its Customers…some are not.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
I understand
That there are limits, and each team operates within certain constraints.
The Braves are limited by such constraints, more than the Yankees, Phillies, Red Sox, Angels, etc., but less than Kansas City, Cleveland, Houston, etc.
I still don’t have to be happy and content with it. I root for the Braves, not because of who owns them, but because they’ve been my team for three decades. I’d root for them if they were the worst or best team in MLB (they’ve been both, actually).
That said, I don’t have to blindly agree with everything they do. (I’m not implying you do.)
We’re so damn close to having the best team in baseball, but we let our budget get in the way of having a special team. We’re content with being slightly above average, or, maybe, solid.
This same team finished 13 games back of the Phillies last season. How are we catching them? By playing the “if” game, that’s how.
I’m not advocating breaking the bank for trash like Reyes or trading players away for crap like Seth Smith, but I would have loved to see us make some signal to the fans that we’re in this to win it, not just hoping all the “ifs” pan out—rebound years for every player, less key injuries, Pastornicky’s success, etc.
I’m backing the team 100% regardless, and I hope we win 110 games and the World Series next season. I’ll be at my standard 20+ games or so, but I would be lying if I was 100% happy with our offseason so far.
GATA!
"so far"
I think that’s the important part of this off season. We obviously are going to get a backup SS eventually, and it seems we are trying to get a new LF. We’ve still got 2 months.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
You're right...
My feelings about this offseason are limited to what has already occurred, not based on hypothetical deals that may or may not happen.
If Wren makes a few moves between now and Spring Training, I may feel differently.
That said, there are many fans who are content if we don’t do anything at all. I’m not one of them.
GATA!
Here's a thought...
What did it get Philly for committing all that money to Clif Lee and Ryan Howard…and the prospects and salary required to get and keep Roy Halladay, Hunter Pence, etc.?
A first-round playoffs exit.
Before Atlanta is accused of being cheap, I value an organization that understands the long-term implications of personnel moves better than say Philly…who by 2017 will more resemble their 1997 standard than their 2007 success.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
In the last five seasons.
The Phillies have been to an NLCS and two WS, winning one.
What have we done in that time frame?
Please don’t be myopic and limit the comparison to only last season.
The Yankees have also spent a ton of money over the years on junk, but they’ve won more WS over the last two decades than the Bravos. They simply reload. Why are we assuming the Phillies can’t reload as well?
GATA!
Philly's success over the last 5 years...
is more related to how shitty they were in the 1990’s to be able to draft the likes of Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins, Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, etc.
Large FA acquisitions or blockbuster trades aren’t what made them good. It was making the most of their homegrown talent. Kind of what the Braves are working on right now.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Well then...
If we’re not being myopic then look at the Braves and their payroll in the late 90’s and early ’00’s. How much money did they spend and not win a World Series? The Yankees have spent how much money over the last couple of years? How many World Series? The Met’s have spent a ton of money with nothing to show for it.
What I’m getting at is I’d rather be a fan of a team that used their resources wisely to put a winning team on the field than a fan of a team that throws money around with no results.
So let me get this straight…the owners of sports teams are supposed to just give away money so that you can have your winning? Wouldn’t you prefer that they just gave you the cash so that you could decide what to do with it? Sports teams don’t exist for the greater good, regardless of what you may think. They are profit-generating enterprises.
And no, the ownership does not give a damn about your salary constraints. Again, they are there to make money, and they should continue to raise prices until demand goes away. That’s Economics 101. They are a producer, you are a consumer. They have the right to raise prices (without giving a damn about your salary constraints). And if you don’t like that, you can stop consuming the product (without giving a hoot about the owners). That’s the magic of capitalism.
I’ve watched a shitload of Braves post-season games the last 20 years, I’m glad I have a winning tradition-type team to be a fan of. So long as we win more than we lose, I can enjoy watching 162 games a year from time to time. More games are definitely better, but nothing to get my shorts in a wad about.
I first got cable in 1975, watching those 55 win seasons wasn’t nearly as fun as last years 89 wins.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Fine.
Some can accept being slightly above average, but it frustrates me.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. As a fan of teams that have a collective ONE national championship, Super Bowl victory, World Series, NBA Championship, etc. in my 30 years on this planet, I’m tired of complacency and mediocrity.
The Braves have potential to be quite good in 2012. Heck, if everything pans out, we could make a deep run in the post-season. I’m simply tired of us sitting around each season banking on every single “if” to pan out, which hasn’t happened yet…
GATA!
Speak for youself
The Braves winning the WS didn’t really change my life.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
??????
I didn’t say anything about winning a World Series changing my life. I said that winning a World Series is more fun than winning 89 games and missing the playoffs. Nothing to disagree with there unless you aren’t a baseball fan.
I had fun the night we won the WS in 1995, the next day I went to work. I wasn’t all giddy for the next month. It’s just not that big a deal.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Like I said
The Braves winning the WS didn’t change my life. I’m a golfer first and foremost. I watch 150+ Braves games a year. I think I’m a fan.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
This is quite an ignorant statement
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 5, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Winning the WS was huge for me
I started being a Braves fan in 1990 . I got to watch the next year go from basically crap to being in the WS against the Twins . And watching them every year after that going to the playoffs just to exit early was frustrating and fun at the same time . Then we finally won it in 1995 and I felt actually releaved . The Braves were MY team and didn’t like to hear about how we were good enough to be there , but not be able to win it . The team we have right now has the talent to win it all . But , everything has to click at the one time and that stretch run when the playoffs start .
I will say this though . You look at the last two years and who has unfortunately sent us home . 2010 were the Giants who won the WS . Last year we hurt ourselves , but the Cards had a terrific run and knocked us out all together . And of course , they went on to win the WS . This team is just that close to being able to accomplish something special .
We have some guys who can put up some decent numbers . And we have some starting pitchers who could be dominant in time . And we do have some question marks going into the season . I at first was one of those that kinda wanted to see a trade happen just to let me know that our team still existed . But the more I have thought about and the more rumors I have heard , I have become more content to be more satisfied if we were to just stand pat and see how the first half of the season goes before I start to get a little nervous . I just don’t see anyone really being able to just run away from us . And we would still have plent of time after the AS break to make our run after we do make a trade to feel whatever need we have .
We shouldn’t become too impatient yet . I remember last season , where I kinda felt the same way as I did a few weeks ago , and then all of a sudden I hear of a trade from nowhere that we had acquired Uggla for basically nothing . So anything can happen .
Why do you care about Liberty Media so much? You must be one of those stockholders I was referring to. You certainly aren’t a Braves fan who wants the team to get back to the World Series if you are so concerned about whether LM makes money or not.
I don't know the numbers...
But I doubt we’re talking about them losing their shirts…
The owners wouldn’t be starving themselves if they increased payroll…
I could be wrong, but if the Braves are “this” close to bankrupting the ownership group, we’ve got larger issues to worry about.
GATA!
It’s not their job to buy the WS. It’s their job to put a competitive team on the field. They do that. Winning or losing comes down to the players.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Correct.
How many super teams have been put together in sports recently? Most have failed on capitalizing on the cumulative talent. You can put star players in every spot, spend $250 million, but it’s up to the coaches to put down a game plan and the players to execute it.
We have a team that died at the end of the season, won 89 games, but just because teams are throwing years and money to play players past their prime (they aren’t Chipper – except Pujols). Winning now is a good philosophy if you are an organization that only exists for a couple years. Not a sports franchise.
Right now, no move is a good move. It doesn’t show lack of effort, because the easiest thing to do is make a lot of moves that would most likely be bad.
The Pirates are not going to trade Andrew McCutchen - please stop suggesting this.
by Pavy848 on Jan 5, 2012 8:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm a fan of all sports
And I literally laughed last year when the Heat in the NBA put Wade , LeBron and Bosh together only to watch them lose the championship . My team , the Bulls should have beat them using just the one superstar on the team , Derrik Rose . But having those big 3 on the court didn’t win them a championship because they didn’t have enough help . And chances are , they won’t win this year either . Superstars don’t win championships , but putting a good solid team around a superstar will .
You also assume that the current budget is spent efficiently...
Derek Lowe, Kenshin Kawakami, and Nate McLouth certainly represented inefficiencies on our roster that don’t necessitate the additional outlay of $10MM-$20MM to add another impact player.
It’s not about whether I like LM or John Malone. It’s a simple case of making more efficient use of the money you have.
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Why? If the greed is good corporatist mantra was valid, no entity with stockholders would ever engage in charitable works, fund foundations, give decent wages or benefits to workers, or do anything other than rape the consuming public, the environment, etc., etc., etc., to the maximum extent possible.
Oh, so they ought to run it how you want it run. Gotcha. Do you know how entitled that makes you sound?
There are organizations out there who don’t care about profit…they’re called charities. And baseball teams aren’t charities. They exist for the purpose of generating profit for their owners; otherwise they wouldn’t exist. The people (whether private or corporate) who own these teams have made many millions of dollars by knowing how to make organizations run efficiently in order to generate profit. That’s what they are trying to do with their baseball teams, and it’s what they should be doing.
Mark Cuban has reportedly lost $150 million since buying the Mavericks. That’s great for the Mavs and their fans, and as someone said below, if that makes you happy, go be a Mavs fan. But the notion that you deserve an owner that’s willing to plow hundreds of millions of dollars into an enterprise just so YOU can be happy…come on, man. Think about how that sounds for a second.
I was watching the Ted Turner Braves back in the day. He tried running it himself, it was a huge failure. He hired Sheurholtz in about 1990 and that’s when things changed.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
I agree….Ted Turner was one of the best owners in professional sports. He gave the team all the money they needed and hired the best people to run the franchise.
Actually, Turner spent the most money when he was trying to run the team himself. He was legendary for throwing top-tier money at second-tier free agents. He actually saved himself a lot of money by hiring Sheurholtz and re-hiring Cox, because the team was run a lot more intelligently. Except for 1981-83, the Turner-run Braves were lucky to ever get 20,000 into the ballpark. I can recall plenty of games on TV where attendance was probably under 5,000.
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
“Deeply flawed left fielder, Martin Prado”
I’m about as far from an expert as it gets, but what is so “deeply flawed” about Prado?
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Only the fact that
that his numbers don’t translate for a prototypical OFer . You switch him and Uggla , and that statement never gets made .
I disagree with many things in those articles,
some of which I took up with Keri on Twitter. But his idea that the Braves have the capacity to spend more is off-base. The Braves, like most teams, spend in accordance with their revenues. They’re a middle-market team that spends like one. If revenues go up, they’ll spend more. Liberty doesn’t even set the Braves’ budget.
Not only am I not depressed about the state of the Braves, I am highly optimistic about the team and its future. Not going after Jose Reyes is not a flaw—it’s a wise decision. If the Braves had excess payroll to burn (from the opening of a new stadium or a new TV deal or something), it might be different, but as is, going after a major FA is just unwise. Especially when there’s a perfectly viable in-house replacement who costs nothing, and plenty of assets to use in a trade if Pastornicky fails.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I also blog about weird statistics at JunkStats.
Follow @junkstats
I agree. Reyes might have put us over the top, or he might have destroyed the entire team. Look at the Phillies if you want a picture of where free spending gets you. They might be contending now, but they’re probably looking at a near-decade of rebuilding after this run. The Braves have set up a system that could allow them to contend in perpetuity for half the cost.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 5, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this assessment.
Assuming the team we have right now is the ideal team, at least according to the front office.
If the Braves had a $150,000,000 budget, yet chose this exact team, I’d feel much better about our squad.
Unfortunately, I have the feeling we’re making do with what we have, even if there’s a lot of talent. Additionally, what happens when all this talent expects to be paid? Are we going to start trading off our assets or letting talented players walk? Probably.
GATA!
Presumably you trade the more expensive players for cheaper/younger replacements.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 5, 2012 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
While maintaining a core of your best players, of course.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 5, 2012 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
This is the problem..
We’ll be constantly making judgment calls and salary decisions instead of keeping all of our studs. We’ll have to pick and choose who to keep, hoping we’re correct each time.
We can’t keep Bourn; he’s too expensive. We can’t keep Prado; he’s too expensive. We can’t keep JJ, Hanson, Minor, Beachy, Julio, Delgado, etc., for they’ll be too expensive.
No Sir, I don’t like it.
GATA!
no one can keep all of their studs
except the Yanks, Phils, and Red Soxs,
I don't think Reyes, nor Rollins, will be worth the deals they just signed
as injuries take them off the field.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Look
I completely agree. We are putting he weight of the world n a 22 yr old kid who hasnt had eye popping #s in the minors. He has never even had a ML at bat and all of the sudden he is our starting SS? Bad idea. we shoud work him into the job. But i doubt he’ll bat for avg any higher than A-gon and there is no way hes any better of a defensive SS. I am personally extremely nervous going into the season with him at SS. Let me know what yall think fellow Bravo fans.
GO DAWGS!!! GO PALADINS!!!
The Braves aren't putting any pressure on him at all.
They don’t need him to do anything other than get on base at an okay rate and play average defense, two things that he seems very likely to do. He’ll be a defensive downgrade from Sea Bass (so is most everyone), but it’s hard to see him doing any worse with the bat.
No, the pressure is on the players who had subpar seasons last year (Prado, Heyward, Uggla, to a lesser degree McCann) to rebound. Anything they get from SS is just a bonus.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I also blog about weird statistics at JunkStats.
Follow @junkstats
by Jacob Peterson on Jan 5, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
No pressure at all? Really?
I’d honestly rather have AG in 2012 than Pastornicky. His offense would be horrible, sure, but his defense was elite last year. An elite glove at the most difficult position (even with his poor hitting) made him an above average player in terms of value. Pastornicky is a “jack of all trades master of none” player. If all the stars align, he’ll be more of a Derek Jeter-type player: lots of singles, below average defense, runs the bases well. How many Derek Jeter type players are there? How come his only outstanding season was last year? For someone with half a season above AA, there will be obvious questioning if he struggles at the beginning of the year (which may or may not be indicative of his skill, of course). He’s not going to get a Dan Uggla leech. If his Babip is low to start off the year, he will likely be sent down to minors. No pressure.
by another simpsons avatar on Jan 5, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
All he has to do is be better than .241 .270 .372 .642
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 5, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see him doing better than .372...
definitely better than .270, and hopefully it evens out to be somewhere around that .650 ops. If he can approach .700 in ops, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
…except AG had the 2nd best Defensive Runs Saved in all of baseball
by another simpsons avatar on Jan 5, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
The sad part is
that wasn’t enough to make up for his lack of offense.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 5, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, he had a down year offensively, even by his low standards.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 6, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Too bad...
the O’s aren’t looking to move JJ Hardy instead of Adam Jones. Hardy would solve the SS and RH bat that Wren/Co. crave…
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
I agree with this assessment.
It’s frustrating, for we’re so darn close.
I may be in the minority, but I’m not terribly comfortable with our sink-or-swim approach with Pastornicky. I hope I’m wrong, but what happens if he fails? Who’s the back-up? Some trash we end up signing at the last minute or another unproven player from our minor-league system?
GATA!
I agree with this
I’m a little disappointed that the Braves seem very comfortable on giving Pastornicky the job. Honestly, I’d think I rather have Gonzo or at least someone that could start two or three months while Pastornicky is in AAA.
This is a stupid assessment...
All Tyler Pastornicky needs to do is eclipse the 1.1 fWAR that Sea Bass got us last year…and the reasonable expectation is that he can do that at 1/4 the cost.
The bigger question blowhards like this need to realize is how many more Wins would we have gotten had Jason Heyward, Martin Prado, and Dan Uggla had hit anywhere close to their career numbers…
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
I do agree with the sentiment that we are usually 1 player away
but I understand payroll stresses keep us from overpaying aging free agents. Would I have been excited if we signed Jose Reyes? Sure. But I think we can win with what we have.
"The way y'all are lollygaggin around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was 120 degrees...can't be more than 114."
not to mention I understand how risky it is to give a guy with injury problems
a contract with big dollars and several years.
"The way y'all are lollygaggin around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was 120 degrees...can't be more than 114."
by SouthernPanther on Jan 5, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
Or the fact that...
Reyes is injury prone and Rollins wanted a five-year deal…neither deal each player ended up signing for would’ve looked pretty on the Braves payroll in a year or two…It would’ve been D. Lowe all over again, except much worse!
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
The question should be...
How many teams are seemingly one player away.
The Pirates are not going to trade Andrew McCutchen - please stop suggesting this.
by Pavy848 on Jan 5, 2012 8:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And the answer is every team that either made the playoffs or just missed that didn’t actually win the WS.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 6, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
The real question is...
How many teams are a lot more than one player away? How would you like to be an Astros fan about now? They’re a bigger market than Atlanta, but they’re about to spend the next four years in the wilderness. All the result of a bunch of win-now decisions they made years ago, in order to make a big initial splash in Reliant Stadium. Or the Marlins… they are far away from being contenders even after all of those recent FA signings. And they have a history of fire sales followed by years of non-competitiveness… heck, they’re just now starting to recover from their last one. I’d much rather have a team that’s a contender or close to it every year, than a team that goes for broke one year and then spends the next three seasons playing under .400.
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
There is no reliable evidence that the Braves’ budget is not 100% controlled by Liberty Media or that the Braves’ revenues are the reason that the budget is what it is. I don’t doubt that McGuirk, Sheurholtz and Wren have may indeed have carte blanch control over baseball operations, but simply because they have been good foot soldiers and mouthed whatever the scripted talking points about the budget have been handed down to them from the coporate overlords, don’t make those talking points true or accurate.
There’s also no reliable evidence that LM has any influence whatsoever on Braves payroll.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 6, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Totally false. In addition to being the owner and, therefore, obviously being positioned to exert !00% control (“influence” be damned), the fact of the matter is that as a MLB condition of ownership imposed on Liberty Media at the time of the approval of the purchase, LM was required to maintain a minimum player payroll at levels consistent with to prior seasons’ player payroll, as well as other conditions designed to ensure that LM would not run the team into the ground as a malevolent and uncaring corporate owner. This was lawyered-out and set in stone from the opening bell of LM’s tenure in ownership. Link.
MLB obviously had their reasons for this.
wow
I had no idea that was in place. Basically without that we’d have a minimum payroll roster
by drumzalicious on Jan 7, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions
Read Bill Shanks latest. Link on his twitter account
Really good read and that read along with this one sums up where the Braves are right now.
Really sad when you think about it. We have really been just an upgrade or piece or two away from taking that next step, but due to the lack of ownership and the hardcore budget, we cant ever make that move. Its not always about increasing the budget by $20 mill, sometimes it just takes another $5-$10 in a particular year to make it happen, something an invested private owner would make the move to do, but a corporate owner that only cares about the bottom line doesnt care about.
I don’t think we were 1 player away last season. I submit that we were 1 manager away….
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 5, 2012 6:33 PM EST reply actions
Well, if you make the case that the one player was “Not Derek Lowe”…
by Ivan the Great on Jan 5, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Touche’
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 5, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
The Braves are run to be a pretty good team. They don’t have the payroll to be great, and they won’t accept being mediocre for a year by making a sell now, win later trade to stock up on prospects so they can put together a great, inexpensive team in the future. I think Wren is doing a good job though.
if a trade would be made with an unrumored team
is Soriano a possibility. YES he is due $18M each of the next three seasons and has a full no trade, but I’d imagine he’d consider waving that. The Cubs are clearly rebuilding and, with the Big Z trade, have shown they’re willing to take their lumps by still paying a good portion. The problem might be that it’s for 3 years but it would make rebuilding much easier to clear some of that and get some prospects. JJ and some prospects and we pay maybe like $6-$8M a year? do y’all think that is possible? Would you be behind this at all? Or does the declining numbers and free swinging .289 OBP scare us off?
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
Even more than the guys who slumped leading to the loss, without Fredi Gonzalez at the helm this team makes the palyoffs, and who knows where they would have ended up after that. The team is fine, the payroll is fine, and Pastornicky just has to do what he has always done. If he doesn’t the team will not hesitate to trade for a short term solution ala Jordan Schafer’s rookie year.
This is the reason why we don’t HAVE to make a move. At some point, you have to let the kids play. Let him try. If we find that he can’t handle the job, we can make a move. FW has definitely he is willing to make a move early in the season. (Yes, the trade was McLouth, but lets face it, we were all excited about getting him)
Justin said " We were 1 manager away from ",Well Fredi was the one who kept running Lowe out there.
It was like there were no other options, same damned thing for Proctor. I wasn’t too happy that Fredi was named manager and even less happy he wasn’t fired with Parrish. Now Liberty is a huge Corporation and the Braves are not much of their portfolio. I’m pretty sure the budget is set by expected revenues and someone at Liberty doesn’t understand that a division winning team will boost them. That’s the sad thing about corp. ownership. We’ll see what this new season brings. I’m hoping that Heyward and company rebound beyond our greatest expectations. I’m very glad we didn’t get Reyes as I believe he will lead Miami into the biggest crash you ever saw in baseball and that will be a very sorry blemish upon the game on top of their new stadium crap.
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
Pastornicky isn't the problem
The Braves have started players under 22 at important positions with resounding success in recent seasons. I trust their judgement.
The problem is Wren’s failure to use the SP surplus and plethora of trade chips to land a big bat. Be it because they couldn’t afford the players they want or Wren is reluctant to give up any of the arms in the stable, but the Braves haven’t maximized the potential they are holding.
At an offensively-weak position like shortstop, starting a young rookie is the least of our problems. If Wren would use the pieces available and finally give this lineup an elite level bat, then we wouldn’t have to worry out Pastornicky does at the plate.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Eventually
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
The problem is Wren’s failure to use the SP surplus and plethora of trade chips to land a big bat.
Because there isn’t any available?
to be honest
if Wren wanted to he could acquire almost anyone out there. Granted it would leave us with no top prospects but it could still be done.
by drumzalicious on Jan 7, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
Stupidly over-valued
The Orioles really think Adam Jones is worth JJ,, Prado, AND two top-shelf MLB-ready pitching prospects? They’re delusional. Unfortunately, that seems to be the opinion of every team who might have an above-average power hitter available.
(BTW, Jones’ supposed power is entirely a fiction of Camden Yards. Over the past two seasons, his road OPS is under .700.)
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
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