NOW Can We Stop Talking About It
by gondeee on Jan 4, 2012 10:49 AM EST
in Braves Trade News
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PrintOkay, I'm guilty of talking about it too, but whatevs, people keep bringing it up. It's that same old Atlanta Braves trade with the Baltimore Orioles for Adam Jones. Ken Rosenthal puts the idea to bed once again:
It makes NO SENSE for the Braves either, as has been repeatedly stated by sane people. Talks fluid though, so expect more rumors, Ugh! I want a new and exciting rumor that doesn't suck for the Braves, or an actual trade, which again, doesn't suck.
Good to see Frank Wren holding firm on not trading any more young pitching though. Really good to see.
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The last thing we need is a 25 BB / 120 K batter. Put the Adam Jones rumor to bed.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
i could live with that ratio
if the guy has a BABIP of .380 and slugs .540
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 4, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
Not Convinced
I realize folks have their reservations about Adam Jones. I do too. He’s still a pretty good left field option, and we are an organization that has needed good left field option for many a year.
My guess is this rumor is not “put to bed,” but on simmer. Look, the Orioles need help. They are in a tough division and are losing their market share to a Nationals team that always has buzz. They have the makings of a good rotation, but need more good arms.
I may be misreading the bones, but I think the Braves would love to have Jones. I think the Orioles would love to have some pitching. The asking price on both sides right now is too steep. However, the Orioles need pitching worse than the Braves need a left fielder, so if a team balks, I think it will be Baltimore.
That's a reasonable take... here's my add-on:
At some point, Duquette is gonna has to ask himself two questions:
1. “Who is going to give me a better offer for Jones?”
2. “Do I dare go into the regular season and risk that he further diminishes his value?”
I do think there is reason to believe that AJones would be more valuable to us that he is to Baltimore. He’d play in left field, which should allow him to be better on the field. He’s also hit… well… something a lot lower in the lineup than 3rd… which could allow him to relax and not have to be “the hitter” of the lineup.
But they’ve gotta decide how they are going to get pitching and second base filled… it’s not our problem to solve by giving away major league players. That said… Prado & JJ in exchange for Jones would probably net us about $3.5-$4m million in salary differential for 2012. I dunno how much value GMs place on that kind of dough, but it could be a factor if Wren is counting nickels.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Prado & JJ =
Way too much for Jones. JJ for Jones is a fair trade for both sides. I could care less about their need for a 2nd baseman unless they want to include a close to MLB ready 3B. With Chipper’s health concerns, Prado is too valuable for our team to just give away. Jones won’t be that much, if any, of an improvement in LF over Prado.
Orioles ownership is pretty unpredictable, though. If they like a guy, he generally hangs on regardless of the dimunition of value. Brian Roberts comes to mind.
I know folks compare Jones to Jeff Francouer. Probably applicable. But this is not the 2005-2009 Braves. Atlanta isn’t asking a low OBP guy to bat in the middle of the order like they were with Francouer. Jones is right handed, plays outstanding outfield defense, hits for power, and drives in runs. Seems like a good enough fit to me for the right price.
Jones is right handed but he hits like a left handed hitter. In other words, he can’t hit lefties. He would be a terrible match for the Braves who need to IMPROVE their hitting against LHP, not get worse. they also need to improve their OBP and he would make that worse too.
So the guy from Twitter wasn’t completely talking out of his ass then.
by michaeldlee1480 on Jan 4, 2012 11:16 AM EST reply actions
So
when Adam Jones becomes a Brave, I wonder if he’ll coincidentally end up with #25? That way, it makes everyone with an Andruw jersey/shirsey happy they can wear them again, kind of like when the Bullets got rid of Rasheed Wallace, but then they drafted Ben Wallace and gave him #30 WALLACE immediately afterward
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Quite likely this is the rationale behind the trade in the first place. It is too good an opportunity to pass up. But think of all the frustration for those who tossed their Andruw jersey/shirseys.
by Pope Vanderbilt on Jan 4, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Kind of dumb from a business standpoint, you want to sell more jerseys, not people reusing old ones.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 4, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Can't speak for royhobbs
but I was definitely joking.
by Pope Vanderbilt on Jan 4, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
So was I
I don’t even want Adam Jones in the first place
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Well, they did kinda retire that number… ;-]
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I wonder if...
there’s any player currently in organized baseball with the last name of Aaron…
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
Not gonna happen
As cool as it would be to break out the Andruw jerseys, they want you to come on down to the gift shop and buy the new guys jersey. After all, it is still business.
This rumour
is reaching Johnny Damon levels. Someone needs to slip Wren a handwritten note.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
I get not wanting
To trade our studs for Adam Jones, truly.
I don’t get why some are acting like he’s trash…
He’s a talented player—not a superstar, but talented.
GATA!
He’s worse than Prado, worse than JJ, and less valuable than any of our higher ranked prospects.
Talent != .310 OBP with average-ish defense
He's a talented player.
While I believe JJ and Prado are better, this team would be better with Adam Jones on the team than with JJ, for it would solidify our line-up on days when Chipper, Heyward, Uggla, Bourn, etc. are not in line-up, since we’d have Prado as a super-utility player. Assuming all of our starters are healthy, A. Jones/Prado would be a nice option off the bench.
I understand that replacing A. Jones with Prado in our line-up, hurts, not helps, us; however, how many times last year were we 100% healthy?
JJ, while talented, has been injured off and on over the last few seasons. Plus, we are deep in SP. As evidenced last season, we could weather the storm of injured SPs, many of which will must better this season.
If the trade involved Prado, it’s a dumb deal; the trade centered around JJ, it’s a good deal.
GATA!
If I’m considering Jones for a trade, I gotta think it has to mean Prado is the main guy going back. Now whether JJ or somebody else is included — that’s another matter. But Prado has to be the center…. here’s why:
1. Jones is full-time left field. Avg’d 150 games in 2010-2011.
2. That leaves little place for Prado to play, unless you think $4m for a daily pinch-hitter and 3rd base sub (weekends) is a good deal.
Better, then, to go get a Jack Wilson (or whoever – even Theriot would be possible) for less than half that to do the same job.
I’m definitely not sold on this idea, but if it were to happen, I have to believe that Odarp becomes an Oriole. Of course I also think that if you dump two big trade chips in one deal, then you’d better be getting a bona fide Stud back in return. Jones could end up being that guy…. but he hasn’t gotten there yet.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Another reason Prado would be in the deal
is that O’s GM has said that 1 , they are needing a pure 2nd baseman and 2 , they are looking for more of a OBP guy than anything else , which is what Prado can bring them .
I understand what the Orioles want.
I’m merely critiquing comments like this:
It makes NO SENSE for the Braves either, as has been repeatedly stated by sane people. Talks fluid though, so expect more rumors, Ugh! I want a new and exciting rumor that doesn’t suck for the Braves, or an actual trade, which again, doesn’t suck.
Maybe I don’t fully understand Gondeee’s stance, but it appears he doesn’t want Adam Jones for anyone of substance, including JJ or Prado. I disagree, for I feel a JJ-Jones swap would be fair and wouldn’t “suck” for the Braves.
Would the Orioles bite on this trade? Obviously not. If the trade must include Prado, then I don’t like the trade at all for Atlanta. I’m merely speculating on a deal involving Adam Jones that wouldn’t hurt us, regardless of whether or not the deal makes sense to the O’s.
GATA!
But as noted above...
…the problem is that we really don’t have a place for Jones to play if we just trade JJ to get him because Prado is better. Jones is a talented player with flaws. I have no problem with getting him, I just don’t see a fit here at all and the Orioles want way too much for him.
When looking at where A. Jones would play...
I look at the injury histories of Chipper, Heyward and Prado and figure at least one will be hurt or resting at many points during the upcoming season. Additionally, what are the chances Uggla and Bourn don’t get hurt or need rest, too?
I hope I’m wrong and each of the above players plays 162 games, but that’s beyond unlikely.
As you and a billion other people note, the Orioles ain’t bitin’, so we don’t have to even worry about it.
GATA!
This is why it hasn’t happened and likely (imo) will not. The Braves prefer to move JJ and certainly prefer to not move JJ and Martin in the same deal in the absence of getting a sure deal young stud (I agree Adam J. isn’t there) or a solid piece plus a near ML-ready top position prospect (like the proposed Seth Smith and Tim Wheeler). For the Braves to move Prado, it is going to have to be a very sweet deal that other GMs – not wanting to be preceived as having been fleeced – are simply not very likely to give us.
higher ranked prospects
the problem is that ALL of them are pitchers. Jones is a known commodity who is improving.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 4, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
OK . Let's try this .
Seeing how we are obviously looking to make a deal for young thumper to put in LF . Other than Jones , who else would be an option ? And no Seth Smith please . I’m not totally against plattooning LF . But we have tried that before . I would rather , if we are going to replace Prado in LF , put someone out there who is gonna play full time .
Nelson Cruz. Worst case scenario, you could shift Heyward to LF.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jan 4, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I would really like that.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I would love that trade, as long as JT wasn’t involved in it.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jan 4, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching
I could see a deal involving Beachy/Minor + Delgado piquing interest, but I don’t think the Rangers want to mess with what they have and I don’t think our FO values Cruz as much as we do.
I’d make that move, honestly.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 4, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Options...
Option 1 – JJ + Prado
Option 2 – JJ + Minor/Beachy
Option 3 – JJ + Delgado + ?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jan 4, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I would take Beachy off that list
Cruz has been injured , much like Jurrjens . I wouldn’t mind trading Minor as he really hasn’t impressed me that much . Out of our 5 younger guys , I would keep Beachy , Teheran and Viz . The other 2 of Minor and Delgado I would be willing to part with in a package for Cruz .
If Wren is going to overpay for any young CF having been rumored to be available, I’d be cool if it were McCutchen.
I would love that
Although I doubt it would ever happen.
4/1/12
Bq. @Ken_Rosenthal Sources say Braves are in talks with Diamondbacks for Justin Upton
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
So is this Rosenthal saying this or someone just claiming sources are saying that?
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Jan 4, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Well
Unless he meant 1/4/2012, then I think that this is a joke. 4/1/2012 hasn’t occurred yet. Also, it’s not on Kenny’s twitter feed.
IDK, just heard it on ESPN Radio…they don’t know how to pronounce Teheran.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Jan 4, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm...
that’s interesting. Why the Diamondbacks would want to trade their 6.4 WAR RF a year after they won the West, I don’t and won’t pretend to know.
really, you heard that??
JT
Heyward
Delgado
Beachy
is at least what it would take lol
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Haha, no…I’m just as full as crap as ATLand UNC is..
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Jan 4, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
you do know there are other people on the planet
as opposed to Americans?
and they put day/month/year
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 5, 2012 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
Many Americans do too…I’m one of them.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 5, 2012 2:43 AM EST up reply actions
Don't tease us!!
JJ
Delgado
Lipka
Bethancourt
J-Terd
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jan 4, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
if that's your idea of a sick april fools joke in january...hats off to you~
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
D*mnit…I’ve been bamboozled. ATL hi-jinx at its finest.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jan 4, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I was bored on my lunch break at work when I posted that.
I imagined people (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ when they realized it was fake, and that provided me a little amusement at the time.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Martin Prado is better than Adam Jones
Martin Prado will cost less than Adam Jones
Martin Prado and Adam Jones have the same amount of team control left.
The discussion starts and ends right there.
If the discussion is about whether the Braves should trade Prado for Jones, then yeah. But if the discussion is about whether the Braves should trade Jurrjens for Jones, and keep Prado as the super-sub/Chipper’s backup, then no, the discussion does not end right here.
This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn.
But if Prado is better than Jones...
…why would Jones start instead of Prado on days when Prado isn’t playing somewhere other than left field?
It should, moving Prado to the bench for Jones so he can be a “super-sub” is a waste.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
A) Jones is not a guarantee to be less productive than Prado, and that’s assuming Prado produces like he did in 2010.
B) Prado will get PLENTY of at bats whether he’s considered one of the everyday starters or not. Chipper, we know, misses a lot of time. Prado can also fill in for any injuries to Freeman and Uggla, and will play left field if either one of our outfielders are injured. The only position that will not effectively be replaced by Prado due to injury are shortstop and catcher, because even an injury to center or right would mean moving Jones over and putting Prado in left.
It’s not a waste to have Prado fill that role. It’s a luxury. Adam Jones is due for progression with his age. He’s easily capable of being just as good or slightly better than Prado at the plate, and having them both on our team makes us much stronger.
This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn.
It’s a waste because Prado Vs Jones in LF is basically a step sideways. Adding Prado to the bench gives us a bit of a boost (if you assume that Delgado or JT can provide as much if not more value than JJ, but moving Prado to the bench kills his trade value going forward, and then there’s the fact that we’re trading JJ a solid front end of the rotation starter for, basically, a boost to our bench.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
but we wouldn’t necessarily be interested in moving Prado moving forward given the need to install him at 3B in 2013.
and a much stronger team in 2012 puts the increased chances of a world championship into the discussion.
But what if
Joey Terd progresses nicely and puts up huge numbers this year ? Are we gonna stick with the theme of starting a rookie every consecutive year or keep him in the minors regardless ?
But Frank Wren wants ALL THE SPEEDZ!!!1!!!
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Quick, where’s Scott Podsednik/Willy Taveras/Juan Pierre/Kenny Lofton?
by Ivan the Great on Jan 4, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Hell yeah!
There’s your infield…
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Knowing FW.....
It would not surprise me if he got Adam jones without trading jj or prado, the man is a magician
by MVPrado on Jan 4, 2012 5:08 PM EST via mobile reply actions
You seem to be harboring something...
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Pelican
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
+1
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Jan 5, 2012 2:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Virtually all of his trades
have been home runs. The only one I have a problem with is the Yunel trade, but I blame Bobby more for that one than FW.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 4, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
That sucks
I was really hoping to see him in the bullpen this year.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 4, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
A Jurrjens-Hoover- and another pitcher for Adam Jones seems fair.One advantage with Jones is if Bourn leaves after the season we simply slide Adam over to CF. Also why would the Orioles be interested in Betancourt when they have Wieters?
At least keep 1 JJ
I see JJ Hoover as becoming a valuable member of this year’s bullpen. He can go multiple innings, has a high ground ball rate, and was dominant once we moved him to the bullpen.
Even Dave Cameron is calling Braves fans 'nuts' for bashing this rumor
He goes on about Jones’s upside but fails to mention anything else aside from the fact that Jurrjens is overrated, which I’ll agree with. But two years of Prado, 3 years of Jurrjens, and 6 years of a pitching prospect for 2 years of Adam Jones(and one year of him in LF)?
It doesn’t make any sense for the Braves, it really doesn’t and I’m shocked someone like Cameron finds that to be a fair trade for the Braves.
That's funny cause
I guess as soon as Cameron posted that (I was told that it was on Fangraphs) , one of the O’s fans posted it on MLBTradeRumors.com and basically said "Hey Braves fans , thise of you who said JJ+Prado+top tier prospect WOULD be a fair trade , and if you don’t believe it then look here (insert link to his post) . Stop the insanity ".
I like Cameron and agree with him quite a lot
But nobody on this planet is going to convince me that trading Jurrjens, Prado, and a top pitching prospect for Adam Jones is a fair deal for the Braves or suits their long-term needs. I don’t even like Jurrjens, but Adam Jones isn’t what this team needs. I keep hearing about his upside, but I don’t see that walk rate improving. I don’t say this about a lot of 25-year-old successful MLB players, but I think we’ve seen Jones’ ceiling and I’m not confident in his ability to play center-field very well.
by Undocorkscrew on Jan 5, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
I agree
with everything you said including the fact that Cameron is ‘usually’ a reliable source . I can’t believe he actually called Braves fans ‘nuts’ for not believing that the so called package offered was not a fair trade . It was clearly a lop sided trade for the O’s .
a trade deal with balt is dead. we should focus on another team
such as toronto who is in search of a front end starter and has the farm system to back it up. I hope FW forgets balt and rockies for trades. After the deal for Bourn last summer I am optimistic that there is a deal to be made that we are not aware of.
Good Lord it is like watching paint dry.....
with all these rumors and NON-deals the Braves have made. Oh, by the way, other teams in our DIVISION seem to be making some progress…and ugh, oh, Prince Fielder might sign with the NATS….yeah…..
QUICK!!!
Someone run tell Frank Wren to go trade for Juan Pierre! I mean, he plays LF, right????
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 4, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Big move
Braves release Marcus Lemon.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
was it because he turned out to be a lemon?
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
That's a pretty tart statement
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
Marlins trying to corner the market on headcase players: Zambrano
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
I can't wait to see the Braves tee off on Zambrano
And I can’t wait to see the fireworks in Miami when/if this club doesn’t meet Loria’s outrageous expectations.
by Undocorkscrew on Jan 5, 2012 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
ColoradoBravesFan on Dave Cameron overrating Adam Jones......
“I hear your comments that Adam Jones is a good player… but WHAT is he good at????
1) He isn’t good at getting on base….319 career OBP.
2) He isn’t good at stealing bases. 44SB with 20 CS in 624 career games.
3) He isn’t good at CF defense. Rated low by metrics and you state he needs hard work on his reads and jumps.
4) He is not very good at hitting for power away from Camden yards. Career .404 SLG percentage away.
5) He is getting better at striking out….”
I’m gonna add that he can’t really hit lefties to that list.
Wow .
Did this guy actually respond to Cameron as ‘calling out’ in response to what he posted about the Braves fans not feeling the trade of JJ/Prado/and 2 prospects was fair ? If so , good for him . Cause it’s not a fair trade .
In response to the headline of this post
Unfortunately , NO . We can’t just yet stop talking about this possible trade . This just in from MLBTradeRumors.com .
Braves GM Frank Wren told MLB.com’s Mark Bowman that he feels both Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado will be with the team at the start of Spring Training. They still have interest in Adam Jones and could continue to pursue the outfielder if the Orioles lower their demands.
So this trade could still happen . But obviously , the O;s asking price would have to drop . And as much as the value , or like (sarcasm) , they probably won’t which is fine by me .
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