Hall of Fame SNUBS!
by mikemike080178 on Jan 20, 2012 6:07 PM EST
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Hello fellow baseball fans. I'll get straight to it. Who are some of the guys snubbed by the Baseball Hall of Fame that you believe deserve their just due, and enshrinement among baseball's elite?I'm sure most of you have your own list, some more in-depth than others, but a snub is a snub.Every year we fans argue over who was left to watch the All-Star game from home, but the HOF is a totally different animal. It's the culmination of one's career, a defining moment, if you will. When their playing days are over, and their stats are Hall worthy, yet their sitting on the sidelines, has got to be a horrible feeling.Don't get me wrong, some players are more deserving than others, but a few names should definately be added to the Hall of Fame roster.
I have put together a list of (15) Fifteen offensive players who played from the 1970's,80's,90's, and early 2000's who I believe deserve at least a second glance. All of the upcoming players are deserving to be members of the Hall of Fame, in one aspect or another. I am currently looking in to pitchers who have been left out in the cold by the BBWA, but, without further ado, let the debating (arguing) begin. (Editors note: This is only MY opinion. No offense is intended in any way. Also, the list is in alphabetical order... Enjoy)
Player 1. Harold Baines: .289 Career Avg., 1299 Runs Scored, 2866 Hits, 488 Doubles, 384 Home Runs, 1628 RBI, and a (6) six time All-Star..... Hall of Fame numbers? Looks like it to me!!!
Player 2. Bill Buckner: .289 Career Avg., 1077 Runs Scored, 2715 Hits, 498 Doubles, 174 Home Runs, 1208 RBI, 183 Stolen Bases, and more career walks than strikeouts.....I know, I know, Buckner is the goat of all goats. He also never had any "Great" season, but when you look at his career numbers, you have to start thinking about him in the Hall.....
Player 3. Brett Butler: .290 Career Avg., 1359 Runs Scored, 2375 Hits, 131 Triples, 558 Stolen Bases, 1129/907 BB/K rate, and a Career OBP of .377.....The bad news for Butler is the fact that he had absolutely NO power. That being said, behind HOF Rickey Henderson, Butler was the next best leadoff hitter of his time. Come on Veteran's Committee, give Brett a spot in Cooperstown!!!!
Player 4. Dwight Evans:.272 Career Avg., 1470 Runs Scored, 2446 Hits, 483 Doubles, 73 triples, 385 Home Runs, 1384 RBI, 1391 Walks, and a .370 Career OBP.....How is Dewey not in the Hall of Fame? Eight (8) career Gold Gloves to go along with his offensive numbers should help. Yeah, he was only a (3) three time All-Star, but you can't blame him for that. He put up the numbers, it was the fans who didn't choose him, much like the BBWA.....
Player 5. Steve Garvey: .294 Career Avg., 1143 Runs Scored, 2599 Hits, 440 Doubles, 272 Home Runs, and 1308 RBI..... Garvey was the 1974 National League Most Valuable Player, had (5) five 200 hit seasons, won (4) four Gold Gloves, and was a (10) TEN time All-Star. Really? He's not in the Hall of Fame? Come on, Man!!
Player 6. Keith Hernandez: .296 Career Avg., 1124 Runs Scored, 2182 Hits, 426 Doubles, 162 Home Runs, 1071 RBI, more BB than K's and a career OBP of .384..... Hernandez was the 1979 National league Co-MVP with Willie Stargell. He was a (5) five time All-Star, and won (11) ELEVEN, yeas I said ELEVEN Gold Gloves. Unlike HOF players such as Ozzie Smith and Luis Aparicio, Hernandez was an above average offensive player and the best defensive first baseman of all time. He should, without a doubt, be in Cooperstown.....
Player 7. Bill Madlock: .305 Career Avg., 920 Runs Scored, 2008 Hits, 348 Doubles, 163 Home Runs, 860 RBI, 174 Stolen Bases, and more BB than K's..... I expect most people to laugh when they read this selection of Madlock for the Hall, but before you do, answer this question for me. How many (4) four time batting champions are NOT in the Hall of Fame? Give up? One, and his name is Bill Madlock. Enough said!!!!!
Player 8. Don Mattingly: .307 Career Avg., 1007 Runs Scored, 2153 Hits, 442 Doubles, 222 Home Runs, 1099 RBI, and 588/444 BB/K rate.....From 1984 to 1989, Mattingly was the best Average/Power/Run Producer in baseball. He was the A.L MVP in 1985 and finished in the top 7 in MVP voting from 84' to 87'. He was a (6) time All-Star, (3) time Silver Slugger Award Winner, and most impressively, he won (9) Nine Gold Gloves. He did all of this in only (14) fourteen seasons.....
Player 9. Dale Murphy: .265 Career Avg., 1197 Runs Scored, 2111 Hits, 350 Doubles, 398 Home Runs, 1266 RBI, and 161 Stolen Bases..... Murphy won back to back N.L MVP's in 1982-83, won (4) Silver Slugger Awards, (5) five Gold Gloves, had a 30/30 season and was a (7) seven time All-Star.Murphy began his career as a catcher, which makes his (5) GG in the outfield even more remarkable. He was the 1985 MLB Lou Gehrig Award Winner and the 1988 MLB Roberto Clemente Award Winner. To say Murphy is a NICE guy would be an understatement, and to deny him his rightful spot in the Baseball Hall of Fame would be a travesty!!!!!
Player 10. Al Oliver: ..303 Career Avg., 1189 Runs Scored, 2743 Hits, 529 Doubles, 219 Home Runs, and 1326 RBI..... Oliver was a (7) seven time All-Star and he won (3) Silver Slugger Awards. Sure, he never got the single season accolades as most Hall of Fame players, but Oliver was a really good player, and his career line shows that. He should be in the Hall.....
Player 11. Tim"Rock"Raines: .294 Career Avg., 1571 Runs Scored, 2605 Hits, 430 Doubles, 113 Triples, 170 Home Runs, 980 RBI, 808 Stolen Bases, 1330/966 BB/K Rate, and a .385 Career OBP.....Rock Raines got a little closer in 2012 with 48.7% of the HOF votes, but he should already be in the Hall of Fame. he was a (7) seven time All-Star who knew how to get a hit, take a walk, steal a base, and score runs. 808 steals and 1571 runs scored are 100% HOF WORTHY!!!!!
Player 12. Ted Simmons: .285 Career Avg., 1074 Runs Scored, 2472 Hits, 483 Doubles, 248 Home Runs, 1389 RBI, and 855/694 BB/K Rate..... Simmons has really good numbers, and if you take into account the fact that he was a catcher, then he should be a no doubter for the Hall of Fame. When you compare his stats to those of catchers in the HOF, Simmons' numbers stand with the best of the best. However, it looks like, once again, that his career stats alone aren't going to be enough. It's not fair for Simmons not to be in the HOF!!!!!
Player 13. Rusty Staub: .279 Career Avg., 1189 Runs Scored, 2716 Hits, 499 Doubles, 292 Home Runs, 1466 RBI, and 1255/888 BB/K Rate..... 2716 hits, 1466 RBI and a BB/K rate that good are Hall Of Fame numbers. He put up those numbers while playing for some Horrible teams, which should help him, not hurt him.....
Player 14. Alan Trammell: .285 Career Avg., 1231 Runs Scored, 2365 Hits, 412 Doubles, 185 Home Runs, 1003 RBI236 Stolen Bases, and 850/874 BB/K Rate..... Trammell, along with "Sweet" Lou Whitaker were a dynamic duo up the middle of the Tiger D from 1977 until Whitaker retired in 1995. Trammel was a (6) six time All-Star who won (3) Silver Slugger Awards and (4) Gold Gloves. Along with Whitaker, this double play tandem deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.
Player 15. Lou Whitaker: .276 Career Avg., 1386 Runs Scored, 2369 Hits, 420 Doubles, 244 Home Runs, 1084 RBI, 143 Stolen Bases, and 1197/1099 BB/K Rate..... Whitaker was a (5) five time All-Star who won (3) three Gold Gloves and (4) four Silver Slugger Awards. The 1978 A.L ROY, Whitaker teamed with SS Alan Trammel for 19 seasons as the double play tandem for the Detroit Tigers. They should go into the Hall together.....
At the beginning of this piece I said I would mention 15 players who I believe should be given more consideration for the Hall of Fame. I did not mention Pete Rose because, well, everyone knows why. I do, however, want to mention one more player. This player, I believe, is the more deserving of all of the previous 15 I mentioned. His name is Dave Parker: .290 Career Avg., 1272 Runs Scored, 2712 Hits, 526 Doubles, 75 Triples, 339 Home Runs, 1493 RBI, 154 Stolen Bases..... Parker was the 1978 N.L MVP, finishing in the top 10 of the MVP voting 6 times. He was a 7 time All-Star, won 3 Gold Gloves, and 3 Silver Slugger Awards while winning to NL batting titles. I don't know what the "Cobra" did to make the BBWA mad, but if anyone deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, it's Dave Parker!!!!!!!
As I mentioned before, this list is only my opinion on the matter of Hall of Fame snubs. All of the players I listed proved, on the field, that they could, and quiet honestly should,be in the Hall of Fame. I hope the Veterans Committee will put at least some of these deserving players in their rightful place. Cooperstown!!!
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Lou Whitaker, Tim Raines, and Alan Trammell would be the ones I agree with. Perhaps Evans could be discussed.
Most people don’t realize it, but Raines was the second best NL position player in the 80s, by fWAR. Only Schmidt was better that decade.
Whitaker put up a gaudy 74 fWAR in his career and is the best second baseman of the back-end of the 20th century, behind Joe Morgan (Rod Carew would also be in that discussion, but he was a 2B for only about half his career).
Your HoF snub list snubs a few guys as well, like Jeff Bagwell, Edgar Martinez and Larry Walker. Meanwhile, Bill Buckner’s on the list with < 25 fWAR.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I know this goes against my sabre tendencies, but Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell and Evans don’t meet the eye test to me. for HOF i use the eye test then back up my gut with the stats, but thats just me. To me Lou and Alan just werent good enough to be HOF.
although I want to remove a lot of people from the hall so we dont have to endure arguments like Dale Murphy was better than Jim Rice so since Jim Rice is in Dale Murphy should be in. The premise that Dale Murphy is better than Jim Rice may be correct, but the conclusion doesnt follow to me, because Jim Rice isn’t good enough to be in the HOF and yet by some space time continuum screw up he is, there is no need to continue to make mistakes.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
I’m really on the fence with Trammell, but not w/ Lou. He was remarkably consistent…only one below-average (~2WAR) season during his career, minus his 11-game debut and the final season of his career. From age 25 through the end of his career, he never slugged less than .400 as a 2B. That would be quite impressive today, but this was an era in which slugging 2B were far more rare. 15 seasons of > 3WAR, nine seasons > 4WAR.
I agree with your latter argument totally. But I don’t think Lou is even approaching a mistake. Alomar missed being a first-year inductee by about 1 percent (elected in his second year of eligibility) and Lou had a better career than he did.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Tim Raines would be the one I’d most want to see on that list, and certainly next on my list would be Jeff Bagwell. The man was on pace to have Ruthian numbers in 1994 before the strike. Extrapolate his season out, and you get a guy who was looking at a 150 run, 57 home run, 171 RBI season while hitting over .350 and stealing 20 bases. Idiots who assume a man can only get strong with roids are the only thing keeping Jeff Bagwell from his deserved spot in Cooperstown.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
Tim Raines is the only person on your list that I want to see in the HOF he is quite possibly the best base stealer of all time (Ricky had more Rock had a much better percentage), it is at least debatable. Not to mention he was a good all around player.
Bagwell and Edgar Martinez also deserve a closer look, but I’m not as positive on those two as I am on Raines.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
Joe Wood, Joe Jackson, and Pete Rose
all need to be in before I can fully respect the HOF.
"I heard that Tits was "well rounded" and his brother Cans was a "stand out." :D"
by Old Braves' Fan on Aug 18, 2010 3:05 PM PDT
Joe Jackson absolutely
….especially since there’s no evidence he ever took any money in the Black Sox thing. He’s as guilty as Eddie Collins, except that they put his name on a list of guys they “thought” they could bribe. Absolutely one of the most tragic cases in baseball history. The man went .375/.394/.563 in that World Series. He still has one of the top 10 OPS+ numbers in the history of the game. He, to me, should be in before either Wood or Rose.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 23, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
According to Wikipedia…
Jackson said in grand jury testimony on Sept. 28, 1920 that he agreed to participate in the fix. It also says that he admitted being paid $5000 out of a promised $20000 by the gamblers. He was indeed acquitted by a Chicago jury and I’m hardly one to argue that Commissioner Landis was 100% correct in everything he did or was completely fair (Cobb and Speaker apparently escaped public punishment by simply being too big to take down although they also apparently conspired with gamblers) but the whole Black Sox scandal is still pretty murky. Many have argued that while Jackson may not have done anything to throw a game, he certainly knew about the fix and his silence needed to be punished.
For those who don’t know, Joe Wood was not in any way connected to any baseball scandal and BravesRaleigh’s point is simply that he should be in the Hall of Fame.
Jackson signed sworn testimony saying he agreed, but then backed out when he realized what that truly meant. He was paid upfront, but he actually returned the money. Eight Men Out actually REALLY did their homework on the Joe Jackson part of things. Yes, he knew about the fix, but basically it was like steroids in those days. Most people did it, but it just hadn’t been done this wide scale and this blatently, so it wasn’t likely anything surprising to hear about it on team trains or in team hotels.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 23, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Baseball needed it credibility restored, so Landis had to collect the scalps of some game-fixers. Not only that, but it was all well and good if all those scalps were tossed into a pile in some random corner of the room…there to collect dust, decay, and the occasional Elvis sighting until one day even a crusted-over old skeptic like me can finally say: Let the shoeless on enter.
Eff Rose. Hard. With a polearm. When his scalp is approaching a century on that dusty, mildewy pile in the corner of the Commish’s office…we’ll see.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
I honestly don’t see any of those guys as HOF. That’s just me though. Tim Raines would be very close though.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
Tim Raines is definitively the second best leadoff hitter of all time…i would be curious to see an argument against that. Now if thats not enough for you, then we differ in opinion and thats fine because when in doubt Id rather players didnt get in.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
I can’t say he’s the second best leadoff hitter or not. He was a pretty damn good player. If he eventually gets in, I’ll have no problem with that at all. He’s just fringe for me, not a definite.
I do think because of the steroid era, his chances of getting in increase.
And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT
damn….third best leadoff hitter of all time… I knew I was forgetting someone… Ricky is #1.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
If this list was the name "Tim Raines," I think it would be a better list
Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.
by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
Great post man, an excellent change of pace.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
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