manny ramirez + braves?
by BronxBraveFan on Jan 12, 2012 4:03 AM EST
Email
Printhttp://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7452132/manny-ramirez-teams-take-chance-role-model
Could it be a possibility to take Manny on, if as nothing else than a 4th OF and an extra bat off the bench? I'm sure he can still hit it...what do you guys think about that? Why not?
If we don't trade Prado &/Or JJ, this might not be the worst idea in the world and won't cost much, right?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
76 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
No. Never.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
for a ton of reasons
1. Manny being Manny – he isn’t the type of player the Braves seek out for the club house
2. He is strictly a DH at this point
3. He becomes a 2nd version of Matty Diaz (who we already have funds committed to – an all bat right handed player
4. He has a 50 game suspension to deal with to begin his season.
You could go on and on, bottom line is it would be a terrible idea to begin with, and it wouldn’t fit with the Braves plans at all
Let me add a corollary to your theorem...
Braves – Manny = better team
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Braves + Manny Ramirez = Bizzare Mars Navy Men
Braves + Dan Uggla = Vulgar Bandages or Ravages Bad Lung (either way scary)
The artist formerly known as someguy917.
I think the mathematical process that best fits Manny
is not addition, subtraction nor multiplication. It’s division. Not the team guy for the Bravos at any price.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
Yes, this is horrible, this idea.
A 40 year old guy who couldn’t field when he was 30 and whose once amazing hitting skills have fallen off a cliff. Oh, and we’d have a 50 game suspension at the beginning of the year. Oh, and he’s possibly an insane person. I’m sure he and Chipper and the gang would get along great.
LET’S SIGN HIM.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
I got two words for you!
HELL NO!!!!!
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
I think you meant to post this on the Marlins’ SBN blog.
by Ivan the Great on Jan 12, 2012 8:49 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Sounds like exactly the type they're looking for
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Eh, I'd be okay with it
Not like it would require a substantial investment. The Braves have some history of working with players who are known for their egos. For the most part, those players have avoided flare ups while wearing the tomahawk on their chest.
What’s the worst that happens?
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
pick one...
1. clubhouse chaos
2. A guy who plays hard only when he feels like it … or feels like he’s being paid enough (which is ‘never’)
3. Yet another suspension.
4. “Mailing it in” at a time when he’s being counted on the most.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
1. Believe this was said about Sheffield
2. And yet has had a HOF career
3. Contract would alleviate. It’s not like we would count on him as a major cog
4. I see this as #2.
Look, everyone loves the Brooks Conrad type. Busts his chops every play, day in and day out. He’s a likeable guy. Manny is infuriating because he (seemingly) doesn’t put in the work or effort to maximize his skills. He’s taken PEDs and is generally a jackass.
That said, he’s been a prolific hitter. As a bench bat, he would be a good fit. I think Chipper and BMac would still be the leaders in the clubhouse.
Regardless, we don’t have to worry about it. It’s not like this would ever happen.
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
On 2
multiple steroid related suspensions will, imo, keep him out of the HOF same as it seems to be doing to much better all around players.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Would agree
meant to say HOF-Caliber.
Unless something changes in a serious way, I supsect that these folks like Manny and Palmeiro won’t be getting in.
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
I don’t see the Braves even thinking once about doing this. If there is an aging outfielder they are looking to sign, I’d much rather take Damon.
by WeStillHaveBobby on Jan 12, 2012 10:10 AM EST reply actions
Obligatory
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I still think...
that was awesome.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Agreed
10-4 definitely is a lifetime premium member of TC because of it.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 12, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Notice how it was a hand-written note, and not a print out.
That’s all I’m saying…
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 12, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
That 10-4’s computer sucks.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 12, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
and what a perfect context to use it in…rec from me
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
He can't be any worse than Garett Anderson
and with Manny being Manny, the Braves could gain a little more publicity (though, possibly negative).
by JohnRocker4CyYoung on Jan 12, 2012 10:26 AM EST reply actions
I’d rather Wren give Matt Murton an invitation to ST than Manny.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Isn’t he still destroying baseballs in Japan?
by Ivan the Great on Jan 12, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Jeez, major league brass must really hate that guy if he still can’t get a job in the majors.
by Ivan the Great on Jan 12, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
It’s way over my head, I’d think he was worth an invitation to ST.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Maybe I'm wrong....newsflash!
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/28/report-matt-murton-to-remain-in-japan/
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
The difference is
that John Rocker was actually pretty good at baseball.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 12, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
eh
Manny Ramirez was also pretty good at baseball. In fact, Manny Ramirez was downright amazing at baseball.
That does not mean that he is now…but if we are making the argument in terms of past ability I think Manny has Rocker beat in that category.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 12, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Manny was good at hitting
Very good at hitting.
However, he has never been good at baseball.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 12, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
I lurk a lot more than I post
Normally I agree with your points.
What’s the angle here? Just that his offense doesn’t make up for his defense/attitude?
He’s got 70 fWAR saying he could play pretty well
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
I'm just saying that we have no use for a DH
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 12, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
When he could hit, yes
but can he anymore, without juice, at his age? And even if he can, is it good enough of a bat to cover for what will certainly be abysmal defense on a team that can’t DH him?
If you’re advocating a pure pinch hitting role, see Greg Norton in 2009 for a player who gets nothing but sporadic pinch hitting at bats.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
and I especially agree with this
but to say he was not good at baseball in the past, is just plain wrong. When he was young and could play serviceable defense in the OF, as a complete package (hitting and defense) he was a VERY VERY good baseball player…even despite his attitude
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 12, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
That’s fair enough, but I would argue that when he was in his hitting prime, he was not a “serviceable” defensive player. When “Manny being Manny” started, he was past his sufficient D days and was nothing but a bat, a mouth and a camera whore.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
well, that’s just simply incorrect as well. He led the league in OPS in his 27 and 28 year seasons when he was in Cleveland. BR says his dWAR was basically 0. But his oWAR was 7.8 one year. 8 fucking wins. with his bat.
No, he was never a good defender nor did he ever have a great arm. But for about 6 years he was, in fact, GREAT at baseball.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
You just described
someone who is GREAT at hitting….
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
0 dWar is 0 defensive wins above replacement, thus he was just as good defensively as a replacement. Hitting is a very big part of baseball and Manny was an exceptional hitter.
So if he was as good as a replacement on defense and exceptional at hitting….
Then he was, when those two attribute constitute a complete field player, a GREAT baseball player.
Even if one goes by your standards alone, would you say that Edgar Martinez was not good at baseball because he did not play defense? If yous say no, he wasn’t I find that absolutely preposterous.
If you would contend that Edgar Martinez was in fact very good at baseball due to his hitting alone (as he did not play defense as a DH), then you have to say the same about Manny Ramirez given his dWAR level of 0.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 13, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I look at it differently. I don’t think that just because someone can do 50% of their job very well that it makes them a good employee. It makes them very good at part of what they do.
And just to put that fWAR into context…they are saying that Manny Ramirez was a replacement level LFer….in other words – he sucked at the easiest defensive position to play.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
If you have an employee
who can do 50% of their job as good or better than anyone in the world, and the other 50% about average for all in his position, I’d definitely call them a good employee.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
This.
It’s like saying Tony Gonzalez isn’t a great tight end because he’s a below average blocker.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
Tony Gonzalez isn’t expected to block. He’s a receiving TE.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
But that’s not his primary job.
You can’t compare football players to baseball players.
The example of Tony Gonzalez would be more accurate if we were talking about Manny’s ability to hit for average vs hit for power – both are on the offensive side of the ball.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
I guess the difference is
I don’t see his D as “about average”.
Even in this particular year mentioned above (for some reason, they want to use 0 fWAR as citing that he’s not bad).
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t 1 WAR average, and 0 WAR means that you can be replaced by anyone and not lose any value?
Manny’s best season of UZR was in 2003, when he was only a -4.6
His best UZR 150 was also in 2003, when he was ONLY a -6.6.
Now, granted, these numbers don’t include his Cleveland days, for some reason (They only start in 2002), but I don’t consider Manny’s Cleveland days to be his prime offensively.
I really can’t believe we are having this conversation. Manny has never been good at D. He has only been good at hitting – and he was downright dominant at that.
I stop short of calling him a good baseball player, because he’s terrible in the field – which is a big part of being a baseball player.
I have no reservations about calling him a beast with the bat.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jan 13, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not near smaart enough on fielding WAR or UZR to answer
but the point is, his bat more than made up for any fielding issues, and to claim he wasn’t one of the best in baseball because of it would be farcical. But if you want to nitpick semantics, so be it. We can agree to disagree.
See the Edgar Martinez comment. Except his bat was even better, and on par with Pujols levels of production in his prime. It may have been chemically enhanced, but he still had a long, long run of production as good or better than anyone in history from the right side of the plate.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
This, this, and this
Seriously, if you are going to only use Manny Ramirez’s replacement level defense as a way of saying he was not a great baseball player, while discounting his amazing and historically elite hitting, I would call that absurd.
Chipper also has a negative career dWAR, yet I think we can all agree that he will be a first ballot HOFer as one of the best 3B to ever play the game…due to mainly his amazing hitting.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 13, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
It's like saying Ozzie Smith was a horrible player
because he was a poor hitter in spite of amazing D. Or that Alex Gonzalez was a horrible player because he only did well in the field.
Wait, strike that last one.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Yes, Ozzie and Alex were also really incr……………….WAIT – A – SECOND!!
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 13, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Jeter, Arod, Chipper, Griffey
Guys who put up similar bWARs during that time period.
Manny was an amazing player. No, he wasn’t a good fielder. But his bat was SO elite that it made him one of the top 3 or 4 turn of the century era position players. I’m not going to argue semantics. Can we just agree that Manny was an unbelievable baseball player and that it’d be a nightmare if he was on the 2012 Braves squad?
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
I agree with assessment
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 13, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I have a hard time calling Manny an amazing, unbelievable baseball player for the simple fact that he was a known juicer. Not trying to be mean or spiteful, just saying that fact affects how I view his (or anybody else who juiced) baseball accomplishments.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
I actually came back to the thread to point that out. He was amazing at baseball, but that’s because he was a cheater.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Was he always on it?
I figured him somewhat similar to Bonds, a very good player, and talented hitter, who went to another level thanks to chemicals.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I agree with this assessment
I think he was already a fantastic and elite hitter…the juices just took that to a HOF caliber level. Otherwise I think he would have been borderline HOF eligible based on his natural talents
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 13, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
We’ll never know. But he took it, and it seem like he did it for years, so, at least for me, that negates the rest of his career. He was a crazy person who was no good in the clubhouse and a good portion of his career stats are tainted by his cheating. This whole idea of “well he was good enough before he did it” is silly because he ended up doing it. And not at the end of his career to hang on, which still isn’t right but at least makes more sense, he just did it to be the best, which is the very definition of cheating.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
For every reason possible
And most of the comments understanding how insane this proposition is. Im just hoping the person or people suggesting it may be a good idea are just bored and trying too spark conversation, because if not than I really don’t get the line of thinking that ANY ML team would want this ego on the braves. Also, just for a quick reference remember why FW, an Bobby C. gave away the 1 egotistical but very talented when he wanted to be yunel esco solely bc of his lack of team 1st mentality. Again, I hope the OP is being sarcastic, but just …wow … Definitely need that 6th OF who can’t even play the field. … Manny freakin Ramirez… smh
by PhillyBrave on Jan 12, 2012 11:44 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I really
really really really wish there was a gif of Manny cutting off Damon. Not only did he make a boneheaded play, but he absolutely went all out to do it, diving in the process.
To be fair, Damon couldn’t throw me out at home. If I was tagging up from first. With a broken leg. And such.
Now everyone wait just a second!
Having Manny would bring a BIG boost to ticket sales and he alone would sell out the stadium.
Well worth all the distractions IMHO!!!
Obvious troll is obvious.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." -George F. Will
by J-Freak on Jan 12, 2012 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Eat it!
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
- Jonathan Lucroy breaks hand after suitcase falls during search for sock
- The Juice: Long Adam Dunn homer punctuates Chris Sale’s 15 Ks, Mark Trumbo goes deep after Jered Weaver goes down for Angels
- Leyland begs media to make umpires ‘accountable’ for bad calls (VIDEO)
