Gone Blind from Rosterbation
by bighop on Jan 11, 2012 11:46 AM EST
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Is there even a point in having a rosterbation post? Hopefully having one will clean up other posts.
Hard to figure exactly what's going on. Most of the Utilty guy Free Agents have been taken. Who's our backup Shortstop? Brief rumor of Miguel Tejada last week, but that went nowhere. Jack Wilson, the batting guru is still available I think. Josh Wilson and Drew Sutton have invitations to ST.
The Chipper interview tells us the team didn't expect much in the way of changes, by God they haven't gotten any!
Any ideas?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Rosterbate on!
In an excellent old (1992) movie, Scent of a Woman, the great Al Pacino gave an Academy Award for Best Actor winning performance as a gone blind old soldier, specifically a retired Army Ranger Lieutenant Colonel, by the name of Frank Slade. In a NYC restaurant scene, despite being blind, Col. Slade leads a beautiful young woman in an amazing tango on the dance floor; after which he addresses the life lessons of tangoing and says:.
If you make a mistake and get all tangled up, you just tango on.
What, if anything, is my point?
Well, we don’t know what’s going on, what Frank Wren will do, wants to do, or perhaps is even still trying to do, and we have no way of knowing, but nonetheless we have contorted and twisted ourselves into knots with ceaseless debate and arguments, and we should not stop now.
As Col. Slade also said:
Well, gentlemen! When the shit hits the fan, some guys run and some guys stay. …
Out of order — I’ll show you out of order! You don’t know what out of order is, Mr. Trask! I’d show you, but I’m too old, I’m too tired and I’m too fuckin’ blind. If I were the man I was five years ago, I’d take a flame-thrower to this place! Out of order? Who the hell you think you’re talking to!? I’ve been around, you know? There was a time I could see! And I have seen- boys like these, younger than these, their arms torn out, their legs ripped off. But there is nothin like the sight of an amputated spirit. There is… no prosthetic for that.
Carry on.
Good movie
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
HOOOOAH!!!!!
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 11, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
How about an extension?
The 2013 free agent list for 3B looks pretty bleak. David Wright has a $16M option. Youkalis has a $13M option. Scott Rolen and Placido Polanco are getting too old to be considered answers.
Prado is under team control in 2013, but he’ll be looking at ~$7M, there’s some question whether the Braves will value him at that price. I’d like to see Wren offer Prado an extension, something like 3 years/$15-18M. I think Prado would jump all over that if only for the 3 years of security.
Having Prado for 2012, 2013 and 2014 would give Terdoslavich, Salcedo and Drury time to progress as Prospects.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
For what it's worth...
The Rockies’ faithful over at Purple Row really want Prado to play second base for them this year. They’re also resigned to the fact that Frank isn’t giving him away for free, either.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Nor should he
if only the front office wanted him as much as Purple Row. Would those guys be willing to part with Arenado for him? Wheeler?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Prado for Arenado + Kent Matthes, OF
call it a day.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 11, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Uh, no way — they are thinking of Arenado about the same way that the Orioles prize Adam Jones. He could be in Denver before the year’s out.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
He could be in Denver before the year’s out.
or he COULD be traded to us for Prado.
Duh, isn’t this a “rosterbation” thread??????? It’s all full of “could”.
PS—Arenado’s though much higher of in Colorado than Adam Jones is though of in Baltimore.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 13, 2012 7:00 AM EST up reply actions
I figure Wheeler might be their limit, while we might go for Wheeler & Smith. They clearly want to unload Smith on somebody… but that’s not nearly gonna do it for us (or it would have been done in November).
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
A New NRI guy...
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
RT @jonmorosi: OF Jordan Parraz signs minor-league deal with #Braves, invite to ML spring training, source says.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Jordan Parraz. 28 y.o. in October. BR, TR. 6-3, 212 lbs. Position OF.
2011 Yankees AAA. 126G, 495PA, 9 HR, 66R, 52RBI, 5 SB. 8.5%BB, 18.4%K. .289/.362/.440/.802
2010 Royals AAA… 123G, 501PA, 11HR, 58R, 61RBI, 8SB. 7.8%BB, 15.6%K. .298/.358/.426/.784
2009 Royals AA→AAA, .358/.298 avgs
2009 Royals Rookie ball.
2006-2008 Astros A-/A/A+ leagues. Has always hit for average and OBP.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Ha! gondee's on the ball... even while in the Netherlands
gondeee Talking Chop
Hey @jonmorosi & @mlbtraderumors, the Braves signed Jordan Parraz back in early November.
The Reply….
mlbtraderumors MLB Trade Rumors
@gondeee Oops, we actually covered that too.
The follow-up:
gondeee Talking Chop
@mlbtraderumors I can understand getting excited simply discovering the Braves actually did something this offseason, even if it’s old news
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I haven't rosterbated in a while now
I guess I miss the real thing…
Even if I wanted to, I can’t think of who to imagine in my head. There is nobody realistically avilable that really peaks my interest any more at this point.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
I've heard good things about this 3B/SS the Astros have...
Jed Lowrie. He hasn’t been mentioned here much, if at all, but he’d fit our needs pretty well.
/awaitsangryresponsefromKrash
http://sportsandgrits.com/
He would probably cost too much in a trade though.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 11, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
............
I hope a swarm of knats invade your underwear and a flock of porcupines invade your sock drawer…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Jan 13, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
What's a knat? Do you mean gnats?
/SouthCarolinaeducation>Clemsoneducation
http://sportsandgrits.com/
knats are go much more annoying than a gnat...
the K is not silent w/ them. :-)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Jan 13, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Frank Wren has given us all blue rosterballs
I can’t even muster up the energy to rosterbate anymore. Its too painfull.
Come on Wren, where’s that happy ending you promised?
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
by the way
I still laugh at your sig line everytime I see one of your posts…
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Jan 11, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
This. That is classic.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
the CAC blew its rosterballs too quickly
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
This is where I'm at...
I don’t see the point in rosterbating when there’s almost zero chance anything happens.
GATA!
Great Fits
A great roster would have Nelson Cruz in LF and Martin Prado as Super Utility. Jurrjens to Texas.
A great roster would have Nick Swisher in LF and Martin Prado as Super Utility. Jurrjens to the Yankees.
Good Fits
A good roster would have Cody Ross in LF and Martin Prado as Super Utility. Jurrjens to whoever for OF prospects.
A good roster would have J.D. Drew as LF platoon, Martin Prado as Super Utility, and Jurrjens in the rotation.
A good roster would have Adam Jones in LF and Martin Prado as Super Utility. Jurrjens to Baltimore.
Bad Fits
Anything that requires Martin Prado to be a regular LF or to be traded.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
I agree.......with almost everything
Don’t agree with “A good roster would have Adam Jones in LF and Martin Prado as Super Utility. Jurrjens to Baltimore” .
With all the rumors flying around , I’m a little suprised that we haven’t heard of a possible trade for Cruz . Although being productive , he has been injury prone and would be a perfect fit for us in LF .
So you'd rather give Prado 350 ABs than 500?
2011 Prado I can get that, but his history would show that to more the aberration than the normal. I would absolutely want 2010 Prado for 500 ABs in LF, especially if the move made in part is to bring in a Maicer Izturis that could play 3B or SS or 2B rather than Prado.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 12, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily. Assuming all OF, 2b, 3b, and 1b positions will need rest, Prado could easily get 450-500 ABs. In the scenario where the Braves trade Jurrjens for OF prospects and sign Cody Ross, just playing LF semi-regularly (against RHP) and giving rest around the horn to Freeman, Uggla, Chipper, Heyward, and Bourn (Cody Ross would slide over to CF or RF in those situations) would easily equate to 450 ABs for Prado.
Now, in the instance of trading for Nelson Cruz or Nick Swisher, the scenario would be different as Cruz/Swisher are by far the superior hitters to Prado. However, Cruz/Swisher and Prado could start in the OF corners against tough lefties giving Heyward a breather (obviously not always as it would stunt J’s growth as a player).
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
I really don't understand this love-affair with Cruz..
I get that he’s a power hitter, I get hes a force. HE IS NOT WORTH JJ…Cheap good pitching nets you more than a NELSON CRUZ. Dan Uggla won’t hit 220avg (or whatever it was) again. Jhey WILL bounce back. Freemans a stud. ALL of these ATLANTA BRAVES can hit for power, so unless something happens in ST or regular season; there just isn’t room for a Nelson Cruz on this roster. When JJ proves he’s healthy again, and is a top 3 pitcher in the leauge there WILL be better offers to improve the club.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 13, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Cheap, young, injury plagued, good pitching nets cheap, young injury plagued good hitting.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
2 things:
JJ is 6 years younger than Cruz. (who’s 32 this summer but is, as you said, still cheap for another 2 years)
and:
Martin Prado was 10th among LFers last year in fWAR with his atrocious (for Martin) season, putting up a 1.6. Coincidentally, that’s the same WAR that Cruz posted. And remember, we’re not even asking Martin to put up traditional LFer offensive numbers, because our guy at 2nd does that. I think it’s expected that he’ll put up good offensive numbers for a 2nd baseman.
I’m not saying that Martin’s a better player, but to say that it’d be horrible if he’s in LF this year is kind of odd. He has a REALLY bad year for Martin and was still servicable. He probably won’t have a .265 babip which is like .060 points lower than his career norms. And a new hitting coach certainly won’t hurt.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
Fatvirus, you’re misquoting me. Never once did I say that having Prado as the LF would be horrible. However, going into the year with Eric Hinske and/or Matt Diaz as starting options when Chipper sits weakens the whole system. That’s why I think having Martin penciled in as the regular starting LF is a poor decision. Signing Cody Roos, who can back up all OF positions well, and having Martin, who can play 4 different positions well strengthens the whole team.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Not entirely true
When teams start realizing their holes or an injury to a SP. Suppose JJ pitches like he did 1st half last season (which isn’t too far fetched based on track record) then absolutely the braves would net a much better deal then a LF. Also, the $ committed too Cruz would make it pretty hard to address the CFB holes opening soon. IMO that proposal makes no sense whatsoever. LF’s can be had for cheaper than good controlled SP.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. In the last 4 years (I use 4 years because it’s the measurement of time that both Cruz and JJ were full-time MLB players), Fangraphs has their respective values very close but Cruz edging out Jurrjens 50m to 45.9m. Considering our depth at SP, I’ll take a chance on 2 years of Cruz over 2 years of Jurrjens because of Minor, Beachy, Teheran, Vizcaino, Hudson, Medlen, Hanson, and Delgado. The list for potential LFs (assuming Prado replaces Chipper at 3rd next year) is nonexistent.
Whether we want to admit it or not, it’s an incredibly fair trade that both teams will think they’re not getting enough.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Texas is all-in. They aren’t trading a very good hitter and defender for a middle of the rotation pitcher like Jurrjens. If they want pitching in a trade, they’ll trade prospects.
i dont think you can call him "a very good defender"
after he cost them the WS, but ok. So in this scenario where they sign Fielder for a huge contract, and they are going to keep Cruz your saying because JJ is “middle” of rotation, which thats your opinion and thats fine. However, if they’re are trading extremely cheap prospects too get this “pitcher” you suggest, which personally I’m not seeing that guy available except maybe a year of Garza? How are they going to afford all them top $ guys with Darvish, Cruz, Fielder, Hamilton, Young, Beltre. Just no.. GET OVER NELSON CRUZ will not ever happen i promise every single one of you that are suggesting it at all….
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
They aren’t trading a very good hitter and defender for a middle of the rotation pitcher like Jurrjens.
Wrong
I have stats to back me up. If you’d like to exchange them, I’d be more than happy to. :)
If teams valued Jurrjens as an ace, he would’ve been traded already. Tim Wheeler and Seth Smith are not the price you turn down for an actual top of the rotation pitcher.
The rox told u that was the offer??
Bc I remember them going after prado hard then Looking at JJ. But if trade rumors says so it must be true. Just like the Adam jones deal the O’s turned down was actually offered to em. That is, until the other side of the story got out.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
OK. Again, I’m offering a stat-based discussion. If you’d like a part, we can do it. If not, I’ll stop talking about the subject.
I think I know a forum that may be more your style:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/forum/_/name/atl/atlanta-braves
by YakuzaFro on Jan 14, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Make it green!
Awesome!
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 14, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Im good
I don’t read espns stuff, I just don’t care to sit here and start throwing numbers around to try and make a point when in reality them past numbers mean jack. Every year some busts an someone booms. I’m betting on the younger better pitcher ecspecially when it comes to this teams needs. I’ve NEVER discounted Cruz’s ability. I said it would take more then him for Wren to do it
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Ok since u seem to think u know what's going to happen
I’ll just come back when wren gets a much better deal and well have that enticing “stat” discussion. Talk to ya then bub
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
Jurrjens has career a 3.40 ERA, 3.88 FIP, and 4.16 tERA, and 4.43 SIERA. Giving ourselves four pitching metrics should introduce a little more objectivity into the discussion.
Since 2008, there are 91 pitchers with at least 500 innings pitched. Among them, Jurrjens is 17th in ERA, 33rd in FIP, 42nd in tERA, and 66th in SIERA.
To believe he is a top of the rotation starter, you need to buy that ERA is the best metric to evaluate pitcher performance (or at least Jurrjens’ performance). If you believe that, you probably haven’t spent much time on this site.
Jurrjens could be one of the very rare pitchers for whom FIP/tERA/SIERA do not work. However, Jurrjens doesn’t have consistently low HR/FB% rates or consistently high infield fly rates like Matt Cain. You’d need a totally different explanation for how he can (sometimes) maintain low BABIPs and high LOB%s.
Do you have a theory you would like to propose?
Ok so you want to do the stats anyway i suppose
HE’S a GB pitcher he pitches too contact. So, yes his FIP and everything else will be higher on that alone. But how about his stranded rate when guys get on??? Also, he did try playing through injury multiple times and you could EASILY see he wasnt himself, and if you couldn’t then maybe you havent paid attention to what JJ does.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
My post was not in response to you. You turned down my suggestion for a stat-based discussion.
Jurrjens is not a ground ball pitcher. He has not had a significantly above league-average GB% since 2008. I think it would be very beneficial if you only read, and did not post, and saw the kind of arguments other posters bring to this site.
Ok my bad if that wasn't too me
I rarely ever post on this site because most of the ideas are just absurd and i get that’s what the ‘rosterbation’ is for. I usually do just come to read the recaps and mind my own. However, i have no sports right now so im looking too the braves to come back. I made ONE post that i didnt like the proposed trade for Cruz and got BLASTED for it. I didn’t come to “argue” stats or whatever it is your implying, but i was immediately discounted when i expressed what i thought, so i defend myself like any normal person would.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Then I would offer my opinion that you should read the site rather than posting on it, to see what the general tone of the forum is. This is a site that is largely based around statistical analysis of baseball. When you make anecdotal arguments without any evidence, you will rightly be discounted on this site. Most of the posters here spend a lot of time analyzing baseball, so butting in with uninformed and unsupported opinions that run counter to this will surely lead to negative responses.
If you are truly interested in contributing to this site, I would suggest you read more and post less. If you just want updates and rumors, us MLB Trade Rumors, MLB.com, and ESPN.com.
Stats don't tell you what's going to happen every year
I can look up stats thanks though bud, but every stat someone wants to pull out to “discount” I could do the same with a stat that makes Cruz or whoever the subject is. Stats arent hard to twist when you cherry pick the ones you want, and its just not how baseball and trades go down. GM’s aren’t soley looking at Gio Gonzales BB% and saying “nah look at all them walks”. Noone expected Uggla too hit what like .220 last year??? Stats can be very misleading and very boring. I was just saying Frank wont do that suggested trade so if i “have” to go find stats to make it sound better to you ill do that
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Again, please read the site before you post more, if you would like to make a positive contribution. If you’re only interested in having the majority of the of the forum lambast your posts, by all means, continue.
This is a forum centered around statistical analysis. If you went to a forum for discussing physics and said, “Hey guys, this gravity shit ain’t for real my uncle jumped in the air for like 8 seconds onced time,” you should expect a similar response.
This will be my last response to you.
ok and my last response to u...
the ‘rosterbation’ thread isnt always so much stat-based like your suggesting. It’s fantasy where people talk about who they want and vice versa. And the “majority” of the forum isnt lambasting me, just about 3 of you’s who for whatever reason dislike the fact that i dont like your proposal or dislike that I’m new or from philly or whatever the case, again i won’t comment to you anymore untill FW makes the trade closer to what im suggesting than what you are. Have a good day Yak
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
right
in all of those stats, it makes him a top of the rotation starter. Yes, I know ERA isn’t the best but going by FIP makes him a borderline #1 starter.
No, not all of those stats make him a TOR starter. Only ERA does. Being 33/91 in FIP is probably not #1 starter material.
You would have to concede that every pitcher ahead of him on the list (Hiroki Kuroda, Anibal Sanchez, Wandy Rodriguez, Ryan Dempster, etc.) is also a borderline #1 starter.
well
It’s been three years since his debut and almost every year he has outperformed his FIP and xFIP. I think he is just one of the pitchers that will continue to outperform despite his peripherals. He’s a strong #2 starter
Jurrjens has 4 years with >100 IP. In those 4 years, he has outperformed his FIP twice. 50% is not “almost every year.”
I would also like to hear a plausible explanation for being able to out perform his FIP. He isn’t a ground ball pitcher, does not have very low HR/FB rates, and does not generate an extraordinary amount of pop-ups.
you take the last month of 2010 where his knee was obviously causing him problems, and I’m sure he outperforms his ERA again.
does not have very low HR/FB rates
He ranks 15th out of the 91 in HR/FB since 2008.
I do not give him credit for something he did not do. You can’t assume he would’ve outperformed his ERA just because you want that to be true.
You are correct about HR/FB, I apologize. However, his more recent performances are much closer to league average (8.8% in 2010 and 8% in 2011). By comparison, Matt Cain is at 6.5% for his career.
And he has been injured the past two years. Also, Matt Cain also posted the lowest HR/FB in his career(first full season) by almost 3.5% so I’m not sure if he can continue that
Maybe it can be chalked up to injury for Jurrjens. His HR/FB% for 2011 was well below average until July, which is when he was struggling through injuries most.
HR/FB% is still not very well understood as a skill. I’m willing to admit it’s possible that SIERA/tERA/xFIP undervalue him because of it, but given that he’s faced the same injuries for 2 years now, one has to wonder if the 2008/2009 Jurrjens is coming back.
There’s 30 teams, which means there’s 30 #1 starters. Ranking 33rd in FIP puts him right on the cusp of being in that #1 starter range. If you buy into the theory of him out-pitching his peripherals and average his ERA and FIP rankings, he’s 25th overall which is definitely within that range. I think what it really comes down to is whether you define a #1 starter as simply the best starter on any particular staff, or as a pitcher who would be the best on any staff.
Is it safe to say that there is a difference
between a pitcher being an ‘Ace’ and a pitcher being a #1 ? If so , I would agree that Jair would be a #1 on a few staffs in baseball . But I would also disagree that he he is someone who we can call an ‘Ace’ .
I agree… and if they somehow land Fielder next week, they won’t even notice if Cruz goes missing.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Why replace a power hitter with a power hitter?????
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Well, first off, you don’t have to take it from us… Texas met with Fielder yesterday, and that wasn’t just because of a shared liking for potato chips and tacos.
Fielder is an elite guy — should at least be good for a 5 WAR consistently. And while he doesn’t play the outfield, the Rangers have seven guys now on the roster listed as outfielders…. I think they can find one who can replace Cruz’s hitting (especially since he missed 40 games last year and could only muster 1.6 WAR for them when he was in the lineup). He also missed 50+ games in 2010.
Why would we want him? Only if we’re banking on the 2010 version of Cruz and his RBI production…. that’s want the Braves sorely need: a guy who is not only good at getting on base (like Prado), but a guy who drives in the guys ahead of him (Cruz). As has been stated, it’s the idea of trading injury-prone for injury-prone. I do think both teams would be better off swapping their respective problems.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
You compare Cruz to prado here, why?
Martin is a natural IF/2B. Say Uggs was a LF Martin still at 2nd. FW should still get Nelson Cruz for 2 years crossing his fingers hell stay healthy?? I’ll mention the NYY again because it’s a good comp. Gardner in left, Cano at 2nd, Granderson in center… Atlanta: prado in left, Uggs at 2nd, Mac behind the plate… As long as you have the balance it really doesn’t matter where they play. This team hung with Philly most of the year until the breakdown and the fans here noticed believe it. Cohesion I’ll take over new guys and disharmony everyday.
Compare Cruz to Prado? Why not?
If we had Cruz, he would (of course) displace Prado’s playing time… if he was kept at all. There’s no reason to pursue this otherwise.
You don’t trade away a piece like JJ for a bench player. Not saying we SHOULD do this, but I’m identifying the mechanics that would be required.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
By the way...
…though I like the idea of having a bat like Cruz’s around, I am concerned because that would (at least) limit Prado’s playing time. Never mind that we’d have to find a Chipper backup (Drew Sutton???) if Prado were moved.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
It may not, but Cruz is under control for another 2 years (2012-13). Same as JJ. That’s pretty good in baseball trade terms.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
For the last time
Nelson Cruz over getting a quality cf or 3b makes the future more questionable. Cruz is no savior, pitchers net better trades then LF/DH guys do. Just bad business.
In re-reading that, I went too far there...
Actually, I need to back off a bit — meeting with Fielder doesn’t imply that they are ready to trade somebody else… but I do believe that they would be willing to part with Cruz… they’ve had to replace him for 90-ish games over the past two years anyway, so such a move would make perfect sense.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Ok so they have Fielder in this situation
Everyone keeps saying Cruz will be the 1 to go bc of injury. Why not Hamilton? Hes more injured and broke down than Nelson. Texas just went to 2 straight WS, lost both, so now they are going to trade some of the big bats they have when they’re THAT close?? Again, I don’t understand that line of thinking at all….
Because Hamilton is an MVP and face-of-franchise kind of guy. Okay, you’re being a bit facetious there, I get it. Look, they have a truckload of bats…. you trade from surplus to fill needs: they need pitching, we got it. We need hitting, they got it… and seem interested in getting even more.
The Rangers had a 39.6 total WAR in 2011…. somehow the RedSox beat that with 38.9. Then there was a huge dropoff…. 36.2, 34.3, 33.1, 32.9. Cruz only accounted for 1.6 of that. Yes, they can spare him… Murphy nearly matched that by himself with fewer PA’s.
Will it happen? I figure 5% chance at best. Is it reasonable in baseball terms? You bet. Much more than most ideas bandied about on rosterbation threads.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
0% chance imo
Not bc Texas wouldn’t they MIGHT, but FW would never. He can/will get someone younger and who plays a position of need (center, 3rd). Suppose they do move Cruz though, Hamilton misses a month or something to injury. Now, that truckload of allstar bats just shrunk a good deal.
They did lose him for 40 games in 2011… and were still a close second in all of baseball in wRC+ and WAR.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Ok bud you take ~200 games of Cruz for 2 years then
He will get hurt, then what happens to left? He will walk after his contract bc hell be a better DH as he ages, then what happens to left? And while all of this is happening chip misses time and will be gone soon. Bourne most likely walking next year. Suppose Hanson doesn’t rebound, seems like a lot of holes can be created bc Nelson freakin Cruz hits for power, just like Uggs ff Jhey Mac to a lesser extent prado an chip.
Hinske, Diaz, maybe even Constanta or another AAA NRI guy. Hanson covered by the kids. chill.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Hinske Diaz costanza
That’s the answer huh? wow that lineup would be a ton worse then just keeping prado
Close 2nd in wRC+ ?? That must mean they don't want him I guess..
I don’t do the new oddball stats and don’t care much about it. I doubt highly Nolan Ryan and or FW are saying to themselves “man close 2nd in wRC! Awesome!!”
The ironic part is that they have all that hitting… Nolan Ryan is ticked off that he can’t get pitching!
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Where is Nolan Ryan saying he's pissed?
He didn’t even go after cj Wilson, and if that’s how he felt there would be plenty of teams willing to take a slugger esp Tampa or SF or a number of teams.
Not going by what CJ said .
He could have said that and it would have been false . I was going by what the Rangers FO had reported . It was suppose to be like 2-3 years and less than what the Angels were willing to pay . Don’t believe everything a PLAYER tells you . There’s a chance he may not have even gotten all the info from all of the teams from his agent . Although that would have been pretty sneaky on his part . But agents are out to make money as well .
My guess: IF this were to happen… Frank trades Prado to Colorado and gets Wheeler and a backup 3B guy.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Colorado already shot that down
You can’t just assume another team will do it, in a trade both parties want too feel like they won that trade
Although there has been rumors about CFers
Wren has also been stated to say that he wants a LF thumper . Cruz would fit that bill much better , than say a Seth Smith or Adam Jones .
Wren never said "LF thumper"
Probably OF thumper, and when he was trying to move prado he needed a LF. Seth Smith is no thumper dude. He wanted Adam jones by most reports. Or wheeler WITH SETH SMITH
Not to delve too deeply into semantics but with Bourn as the definite starter and RF is Heyward’s (despite any ridiculous sentiments we might have read implying that he has to earn it) then we are talking specifically about a LF “thumper”
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
From what I have read and heard
I have seen statements saying that he was looking to try and acquire a “young LF thumper” .
NO
The actual statement was “young LF thumper” . And according to the interview he gave either before or during the Winter Meetings , he had actually brought the Braves young arms as a possibilty to try and acquire one . I don’t think he actually ever mentioned trading JJ or Prado .
I don't understand...
I thought if we traded for Troy Tulowitzki, Adam Jones, and Jed Lowrie we would be set?
FW would NEVER trade JJ for a veteran OF
plain and simple.. move on.. think about what’s on the roster now. IF a move is made it’ll be in ST or mid-season; with the exception of bench/BP help (minor stuff)
Just not true, and really doesn't make sense...
FW has said all along he wants a power-hitting OF. The Braves’ brass confirmed interest in A. Jones and he’s a veteran.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Adam jones is a CF
A hole frank needs to address if he can’t sign Bourne. Little different situation than Nelson Cruz. However, time will tell and I feel pretty dam certain there will be no JJ for Cruz deal at all. Rosterbate away though keep hoping or just do what ya do bud. Just don’t go buying a Cruz shirt with the tomahawk on it….
i could see Cruz
if for nothing more than a salary dump IF they sign Darvish AND Fielder.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 14, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
A salary dump is what Atlanta is trying to accomplish
Trading for Cruz doesn’t exactly do that, and again it fills no holes for the VERY foreseeable future. There is enough power in this lineup when most are playing at or near potential.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
No they’re not. You don’t make a “salary dump” on a guy you only have approx. 5 million committed to. Not sound logic. They’re trying to trade from strength to improve their club for now and the future.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
by ryan c on Jan 14, 2012 3:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not a salary dump this year
But the reason everyone suggests JJ an Hanson is bc they will be expensive soon. Otherwise why not trade one of the youngins since its still a strength of the club. Also trading for Cruz does not improve the club for the future at all. 4 legit power hitters are in the everyday lineup that’s half the lineup plus Martin and chip going for ~20HR give or take. But I guess fielding an 8 man power lineup is how you win championships…. Not to mention how they usually break down quicker. BALANCE makes a good team, not Nelson freakin Cruz…
You do know that Prado could still get 300+ or so AB’s if the Braves were still to trade for Cruz . Chipper is gonna need his 50+ games off this year . Uggla is gonna need a break as well as Cruz and even Freeman . Then you also have interleague play . Trading for Cruz would be a good way to keep everyone fresh on the offense without losing any production , if not gaining with having Cruz in the lineup for 135+ games . Texas is wanting pitching . They are still in the hunt for Fielder . But either way , they would still rather gain pitching over hitting .
Trading for Cruz has nothing to do with prado
Fact of the matter: it wouldn’t make sense. Bad business
Also uggla never wants to break so that's what 5 games?
Freeman, also barely takes a day unless it’s a kershaw type SP.
You can't expect
everyone to play 162 games straight . Everyone needs a break now and then . Regardless , even with Cruz in LF , Prado would still get 300+ PA’s easily .
No I don't expect anyone to play 162
That’s why there’s a bench with utility guys and backups. Just like every team in baseball…
And with a guy like Prado
in that role , we would be in great shape if anyone (3rd , 2nd , LF , 1st) were to get injured or would need a much needed break .
And how do u know how prado responds to being demoted again?
He’s a team 1st guy and moved to left, but he earned his starting job and a potential .300 hitter with contact ability is a nice piece to have in the lineup. He struggled last yr moving position could have or might not have been a factor. Making him strictly utility riding the could have an effect on his psyche or he may just get digruntled for being mistreated. U can’t just assume a player can do anything u ask: ex. Adam Dunn DH
You said it .
He is a ‘team player’ . Thats why he would handle the transition professionally . He would also understand , I’m sure , that he will still see plenty of playing time regardless of Cruz’s acquisition .
There’s being a “team player”, and then there’s being in a situation that might cost you millions of dollars.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
THANK YOU
For realizing this isnt a freaking fantasy lineup, and that Pro Ballplayers all have ego’s too some extent. I gaurentee if Prado is told hell be riding the pine, he will want out because ther will be plenty of teams willing to give him a starting gig. Not to mention he BALANCES out the lineup with all the high SO guys already in the lineup
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
So
Prado went from being a team player to now being a guy with an ego . It’s funny , cause he was asked to move to a position he had never player before last year and there has not been anything out of Prado negatively about having to move away from his more normal positionsin the IF . Yes , all ballers have an ego to some extent . So do I . And you obviosly do too . But some people control them better than others . Martin is a true professional . I’m sure he would do what was asked of him and not complain otherwise .
U can't be sure until it happened
Prado wants a contract. He can start at 2nd for about 90% of teams and make a lot more than a utility guy. And again he’s proven he is a starter in this league and deserves to be treated as such
He does deserve to be a starter
at a position like 2nd or 3rd . He has earned it . But unfortunately , we are talking about improving the team THIS year . And unless he can learn to play SS , his position in LF would be the only position where the team could improve on . If he could live with being a UT guy for a year , like he was when he first came up , then he could be our 3rd baseman in 2013 . It kinda shocked me when we only signed him this year to avoid arbitration . If he is in the plans long term , it would have been nice to go ahead and sign him for a more year friendly deal . 2 or 3 years would have been nice just to see if he has reached his peak or if he can progress a little more .
None of the names we’ve been linked to are an improvement on Prado in LF.
It’s not about “living with” being a UT guy, it’s that being a UT guy for a year is going to seriously impact how much money he makes next off season.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
In all fairness
I wouldn’t want any of the guys we have been linked to yet . We haven’t been linked at all to Cruz , though it would be an improvement over all the other guys we have been linked to . Team friendly players have taken pay cuts for the betterment of the team before (Chipper for one) . Why wouldn’t Prado do so for 1 year when it would improve the ball club . Not all players are about ‘just’ the money . Some want to win as well .
Chipper went after less money after he was an established superstar who had already made enough to make sure that his kids kids would always be well provided for.
Martin Prado is in a situation where he’s got no idea how long he’ll be able to play, some guys get hurt, some guys just fall off a cliff at age 30. How much money he makes over the next few years may well be what determines the quality of life for himself and his family for the rest of his life.
How would you feel if your boss wanted to cut your pay / hours down to part time because it was what was best for the company, especially while you knew that there were a dozen other companies in the same field that would love to have you on full time at full pay?
Prado may well take the situation in stride, at least publicly, I know I wouldn’t be thrilled about it in his shoes and would, at the least, ask the FO to try to move me to a team where I’d get a chance to start.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Bad Business ?
For who ? Please explain your logic . Cause if it would improve the team , I would consider that to be a good business deal .
Good how?
Prado is a fine player. Jhey will bounce back, and if not maybe then FW goes for an OF. A 30 something LF is a bad trade for an Allstar SP … That’s bad biz
You have to be realistic
Jurrjens has been good 2 out of the 4 years he has been a starter . And only one of those years has been able to pitch 200 innings . Other teams and GM’s know this . He was an AS last year . McClouth was an AS once too . Where is he now ? We would be fortunate to get a return of Cruz for JJ at this point . The fact that they have been both injury prone would only make the trade fair for both teams . Both teams would be taking a gamble . And this is coming from a guy who really likes Jair .
Comparing Mcloth to JJ is absurd
When healthy he’s a stud period. Nelson Cruz when hurt sucks too sitting on the bench what’s ur point? JJ is younger and a SP plain an simple. There will be teams who suffer injury to a SP and pay a much better premium than a 30 something breaking down anytime now LF soon to be DH
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
I like how you are talking about JJ like he is a perfect specimen of health. He has the injury prone label just like Nelson Cruz has.
He does really???
What major surgeris has JJ had???? “injury prone” pitchers usually means they had elbow/shoulder surgery. When he was tearing up the leauge and about too start the ASG NOONE on this site was saying “JJ’s just average, middle of rotation guy” He’s a young 1/2 starter who is improving. He will prove his knee is fine and FW will get a haul in return. Not Nelson Cruz.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
If the Meniscus clean-up did indeed leave JJ with bone-to-bone issues in his knee, as MLB.com has said, he might be struggling with that knee from now on.
I’ve always wanted Wren to extend JJ and keep him a Brave long-term, but if those reports are true, he might never be more than a 20-24 game starter again. Other teams know that and might give up much for JJ in a trade.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
I agree his health and performance will determine what happens
But since Frank didn’t just sell out before spring, it looks to me like he believes JJ will be okay and get the value he wants. All speculation, but if his knee is indeed an issue still than i really dont think the Rangers would consider this deal than either.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
JJ
has been linked to so many bogus rumors that it sounds like the reason he hasn’t been traded yet it because we are basically getting nothing in return . I mean , a platoon guy in Smith , a headcase in Young , and an overrated should have been in Jones . And bighop made perfect sense with JJ knee . Although it’s not a shoulder or arm , that doesn’t necassarily mean he won’t hit the DL again for the same reason . And if those doctor reports are true then there is a good chance he may never be right again . Wren may know this , which could be the reason why JJ has been rumored to so many trades .
If wren thought JJ wouldn't bounce back
He would’ve taken whatever he can get before he let em take the mound and then he’s got NO value. So no I personally believe hell bounce back. And as far as the DL, there’s no guarantee he will hit again either so I don’t understand ur point?
The point being
that the trade or swap for the 2 would be equal in value considering that both are a injury risk .
WHAT? Link please to any doctor reports.
Wren seems to obviously believe JJ has and should have considerable value, and will in the future have greater value.
You'll have to ask bighop
for the referance to the link of those doctor’s reports . I gathered my information from what he had posted earlier .
No Drs reports
I mentioned something I saw on MLB.com, a link from “Hot Stove”. They were discussing Jurrjens and mentioned that he is dealing with “bone-on-bone” issues in the knee that had the Meniscus tear.
Jurrjens is going to wear a special brace on the knee, I’ve read that repeatedly.
The “Hot Stove” report suggested that Jurrjens could end up being a 20-24 game per season starter like the last 2 years and that because of that, other teams don’t value him as highly.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
I wasn't exactly sure
I was just going on what you had posted earlier . But if what MLB.com reported did come from a doctor , we would probably never know that for sure anyways as that would be something I’m sure they would keep somewhat private . To announce it publicly would only hurt his status .
Reporters don't always know everything
For all we know a rival exec said it to lower JJs value, no one can say for sure. I do remember Fredi or someone saying JJ would have pitched in the playoffs if they got there and that he was feeling better
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I was one of the ones
who heard the same thing about JJ being able to pitch in the playoffs and also posted it . But he would have had to do it with a brace on his knee for support . And you’re right , reporters don’t always know everything . And we will probably never know the full extent of his injury . But it must be enough of a concern to affect his value . Latos is a decent pitcher , but has never put up good numbers like JJ . But the Padres still got a really good return for him . Pineda going to the Yankees netted the Mariners a nice return and he (Pineda) hasn’t really put up good looking numbers like JJ has . Why ? Probably cause those two have never shown a history to be injured as JJ has .
I had this same discussion with a Tigers fan a while back . I didn’t know it at the time , but informed me that JJ had a few injuries while in their minor league farm system . Maybe there is more to JJ’s last two years that we don’t know about . If you would like , I will gladly investigate his minor league history to check for injuries .
I recall he was wearing a special brace late last season when he had the bone bruise problem.
As for a bone-on-bone problem, I don’t think that makes much sense at all, but I guess we’ll learn more as we move forward.
My wife has that same problem .
She hurt both of her knees in a roller skate accident , of all things . Basically , she is fine one day , and can barely walk the next . They had to remove a certain amount of tissue or tendons between the thigh bone and shin bone which gives it the term ‘bone-on-bone’ . She has to be careful how she uses the one knee cause it has popped out of place before and is extremely painful to get it to go back in . For some reason they only put a pin in the one knee and not the other (the one that keeps popping out) . But even after her surgery , which was 9 years ago (coincidentally she just turned 26 in Jan) , she still has problems with both knees .
I’m not sure of the severity of his injury . But if it’s remotely as severe as what my wifes was , then he must struggle with it when he pitches . That could be the reason for the much noted ‘drop in velocity’ . Maybe not being able to push off on it as much as he used to .
Well, the critical point is none of us could be sure at all, because we have no access to the medical records or to the expertise and best professional judgments of the surgeon who performed the arthroscopic surgery in October ‘10 to repair the lateral meniscus tear in JJ’s right knee or of the other physicans who have worked with him in connection with the problems during last season’s second half , which was called a sprain and a bone bruise in the press. In fact, as far as I’m concerned, we don’t even have a good basis to speculate about whether these problems were definitely related to each other.
On the other hand, however, Frank Wren and the Braves organization do have such access; as would the GM and staff of another organization undertaking due diligence to complete a pending trade.
If you care to read up on what we are trying to discuss, here is a peer-reviewed retrospective study providing an analysis of long-term outcomes — although once again I would suggest any such data may not be particularly relevant or even applicable at all to JJ’s specific situation, taking into account the nature and severity of his tear, the details of the surgery performed, follow-up imaging studies, actual medical diagnoses as to whatever last season’s problems were, etc., etc.
To say that the two have nothing to do with each other is a complete oversimplification. The team ultimately works within the constraints of the roster, and each Cruz and Prado can add value to the team, and can even do so at the same time!
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Ok plain and simple
If prado isn’t traded before ST, he will be the starting LF, bc he’s good enough to be and IMO he balances out the lineup
WOW .
You actually said something that made sense . He is good enough to be our starting LFer . You’re right . But the whole point of adding a Cruz to our lineup would be to improve the lineup just that much more . You’re right in that we don’t necassarily have to improve LF . But if the oppurtunity is there to do it , then why not . Both Prado and Cruz both would bring production to the lineup in different ways . Prado’s versatility and ability to put the ball in play and have a decent OBP while Cruz would be able to help drive runs in and provide some protection along with Uggla as RH batting sluggers . With Prado out you could throw a very balanced lineup out like this :
1)Bourn
2)Chipper (no more “he’ll only hit 3rd” . He hit in multiple spots last year)
3)McCann
4)Uggla
5)Freeman/Heyward
6)Cruz
7)Heyward/Freeman
8)Pastor
The lineup would be very balance with it going L , S , L , R , L , R , L , R . And you would have guys 2-7 that could hit 20 HR’s with a guy in the 2 hole (Chipper) who has good patience and can put the ball in play and hit either L or R .
Are u reading anything I write or do u just wanna argue dude?????
FOR THE UMTEENTH TIME NELSON CRUZ IS A SLUGGER HE CAN HIT A BASEBALL…….HE IS NOT WORTH JUST JJ …. Is that clear to u????
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
and as far as me "saying something that made sense"
Everything I’ve said I explained to u over and over. But that lefty righty lineup u just made if Cruz came aboard man that’s some sense. I forgot prado wasnt RH?? Power hitters who SO a lot 4-7 in ur “lineup” again makes no sense to me. Don’t insult someone’s intelligence when u sound like a dam fool
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
It's not ok
to insult someones intelligance , but it’s ok to call someone else names (dam(n) fool (I corrected it for you ) ) . I never said you were a “dumb ass” . I just stated that your opinion is one that is obviously shared by a minority of 1 , which would be you . If anyone else on here agrees to the way you think , then I’ll concede and apologize . But to be totally honest , I would guess that your opinion makes no more sense than mine or anyone elses . And why ? Cause they are opinions , and this is a blog where everyone can share that opinion . And guess what , not everyone is gonna agree with your opinion , no matter what . So get used to it .
Are you having road rage at your computer ?
Or are you a teenager on the verge of having a temper tantrum because you can’t seem to get your way . LOL . Your attitude is good for a laugh , I’ll give you that . And yes , I know that Martin is RH . But Cruz’s numbers compared to Prado’s would look better in that lineup . And Prado would also look really good as a SUT guy or bench guy for a late inning PA when we would need a good bat in a critical situation . And as gumpbrave mention before , Cruz does really well against LH pitchers who we have struggled against lately .
I wouldn't have to keep posting
If you just read my first OPINION. I’ve stated mine and its been the same over and over and over again. For whatever reason you don’t like my opinion so you keep trying to dispute it and tell me its wrong, when in reality i bet my odds of Nelson Cruz not being a Brave are MUCHH better than yours that he will be
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
My opinion
is not so much of wether or not Cruz will be a Brave , but how little JJ’s actual is compared to your standards . You keep using words like ‘young’ and ‘stud’ and ‘AS’ . He is young . So he does have that going for him . Stud is a bit overrated . I think ‘smart’ would be a better word to use there . And he was an ‘AS’ . But that term can be used about many players who have all came back down to mediocracy . Cruz was brought up because of the fact that both would have about the same due to the fact of past injuries . Both have those same question marks now stamped on their heads .
So he luckily made the AS team r u implying?
Bc he did lead the league or close to it in every “stat” u want to bring up. He wasnt "just an AS bc someone backed out, he was deserving of starting it. So yea it shows the guy has talent based on his performance so yea I think he’s a lot better than ur giving credit
Players have career years all the time .
Do I think JJ will make the AS team again ? I hope so . I like JJ . I’m biased of all our Braves , even if they aren’t on the team anymore . But there have been players who have had that honor and never recieved it again due to poor perfromance . Just because he was an AS last year doesn’t make him a ‘great’ player . It makes him a player who had a ‘great’ season before his injury ended it .
It wasn't his first glimpse of greatness though
Hes gotten better and is/was still learning the game his future looks more good than bad imo
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions
He got better last year
Better control and has a plan. Every young player hits a rough patch, the good ones fix it. He did carry the staff when he first came through, your talking about him like hell be horrible show me the stats that say he’s not going too cut it? STATS DON’T TELL YOU EVERYTHING. EVERY PLAYER IS DIFFERENT THEY’RE NOT NUMBERS
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
Oh
He got better last year . And thats all the proof we need to assure us he won’t regress next year . Thanks for clearing that up .
Not a salary dump by any means. Maybe we are being really cautious about certain numbers, but we are not actively trying to dump major contracts. Lowe, though his primary value as a trade export is cash and the fact that he doesn’t take the field, was not really a pure salary dump but more about comparative value to other options the Braves had.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
"Competitive value to other options" = salary dump
Younger pitching lets save some salary and see who will pay Lowe. That’s a salary dump dude
Yea in a single scenario. But as much as it was about money it was also about comparative performance. Either way, you made it seem as if it is indicative of a larger Braves philosophy, and it isn’t.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
If Lowe
would have been able to pitch to his contract , he would still be a Brave . But he couldn’t . And the way he was pitching , we have better options regardless of his contract . I agree that it wasn’t a dump of salary as much as it was a dump of lack of production .
No he wouldnt
Julio and Minor have nothing else too prove. Lowe maked the most he would have been traded regardless
"allowed"? It's not recess dude. It's a business
Huddy is on a team friendly deal. Lowe was expensive. There’s ATLEAST 2 prospects ready to come up. Smart business says Lowe would have been gone regardless. They wouldn’t have needed 15M on one SP common sense bub
Logic
would tell you that if he would have been able to pitch to his contract , that he would indeed been “allowed” to finish out his contract . Wether or not the Braves would have needed his $15 M or not , if he pitches as well as his contract would have indicated him to pitch he would have stayed . You don’t trade a guy who pitches very well (lets just say 18 W’s ERA of -3.00 and 200 innings) just because of his contract . Those prospects aren’t going anywhere . They would be ready when they are needed . It honestly sounds like you are disagreeing , just to disagree . Would you honestly trade Hudson too ? Cause you could easily say that he is blocking younger , cheaper options as well .
Now we compare Lowe to huddy....
Lowe was NEVER worth that contract so how could he just magically start pitching to it???? Atlanta overpaid bc they needed pitching, they didn’t expect a bum but NOONE expected the numbers u just put up. Huddy is a braves guy still productive a gamer and most important the leader of the staff. So no, I never said trade huddy pls stop miss quoting me. And how am I “disagreeing just to disagree”? I’ve been repeating the same thing the entire time u just apparently don’t like my opinion that’s ur problem. Or maybe u just wanna disagree just to do so…..
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
No one knew what kinda of numbers Lowe was gonna put up . But you can say that about %75 of all starting pitchers in baseball . It’s hard to find a starting pitcher who can maintain his value per contract . And although it was a while ago , Lowe has put up numbers like those I used in a tough division before in Boston . His best season there he put up 21 W’s and an ERA of 2.58 . So it’s not like he had never done it before . I will agree that once we had signed him that I thought we had overpayed . But he had also proven to be an innings eater and injury free pitcher . And I was using Huddy as a reference because of the fact that of what you said about prospects being blocked . And Huddy coming off of a back surgery is no sure thing either . He is making $9 M this year . So do we trade him because he is blocking our prospects and they are cheaper options and we are concerned about his return ? Just asking ?
No, read above about what i think of Huddys value
As far as Lowe, everyone knew Frank overpaid because he had too. He needed pitching in the worst way so he pulled the trigger hoping he could keep that GB rate so he would be serviceable. And those numbers your posting from his Boston days were a LONGGG time ago bud, he sucked in LA and he sucked when he got to Atlanta. If you remember Frank wanted Burnett instead of Lowe who he settled for. not because he’s an “innings eater” because he was all that was left..
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
If you would have looked it up
you would have seen that Lowe never ‘sucked’ while in LA . All 4 years he was there , he never pitched less than 199.1 innings and never had an ERA less than 3.88 . And from what I remember , he was brought in to anchor a somewhat younger rotation and provide some innings and leadership along with Hudson . And I know those numbers from Boston were a long time ago , I told you that when I posted them .
So in ur mind u really think Lowe was a stud then?
Who’s worth 15M 4 yrs that’s a joke and u know it. It’s like ur trying ur hardest to tell me I’m wrong when Lowe was never considered great sp. but JJ isnt so good u say… Ok
No one ever said
that Lowe was a stud . I never said that either . I said that Wren put that much money on the table for Lowe because of the fact that he had shown that he could eat a lot of innings and pitch WELL ENOUGH to make his contract worth it .
Seeing how you misread what I posted I will post it again for your benefit :
While he was in LA “he never pitched less than 199.1 innings and never had an ERA less than 3.88 .”
Thats what I posted . That doesn’t imply that I thinkk he was a ‘stud’ . But that does imply that I think Wren seen him as a veteran who eats innings and doesn’t miss a start (something your player JJ hasn’t done the last 2 years) and pitches well enough to keep his team in the game .
Wren had no choice
He wanted Burnett and settled on Lowe. Using his good years ERA is saying wren expected a sub 4.00 for 4 years. Lowe was on decline and it was obvious be serious dude
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Being serious....
Nobody twisted Wren’s arm to make that acquisition for Lowe . It’s not a drug . And he is not addict . I’m sure he could have said ‘no’ if he actually wanted to .
Really he could have made no move?
The pitching staff was a disaster he couldn’t have just done nothing and went with the same guys no. If he did people would say he didn’t address his needs, he’s terrible, so on and so on
by PhillyBrave on Jan 16, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
It's Jack Wilson
Backup SS? CHECK.
1 yr deal.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Thank God, Frank Wren is still alive!
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 13, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
The bunker has been found… the office is still open for business.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Phew....
But now do we have to go out and win the hearts and minds? Also, pretty sure Fredi is cooped up somewhere in Pakistan after his media comments at the winter meetings.
The Jack Attack is back, baby! May the Pastor bless the gap Wilson will cover while his holiness rests.
...and Martin Prado is definitely a "player"
(oh, and there’s this Jack Wilson guy, too)
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Prado avoids arbitration and signs for 1 year at $4.75 M
I would have liked to have seen him signed to a little longer deal . I think he is more valuable to us than other teams and fans may think .
I personally like Cruz. Considering the injury questions we have in Chipper (and to a much lesser extent Heyward) which would allow Prado and Cruz to both be used quite often.
Not to mention that having Prado as the first man off your bench is an ideal scenario and speaks to a well constructed team.
Prado would get innings, considerable ones too. Between his direct back-up of LF and 3rd, he also has a chance to get innings in the OF in other ways, and also potentially at 2nd (though unlikely with Uggla’s iron man track-record) and 1st. Add to that pinch hitting appearances and DH in inter-league and the guy is going to have a busy year.
Having a guy who can take potentially detrimental PA’s and defensive innings and turn them into above average production then you are doing really well.
Let’s frame this differently:
Even if you argue that Prado is better than Cruz or if they are even, compare that difference to the difference between Prado and the other options as back-up. Then think to how I outlined how many possibilities for innings he has this year. Having Prado in those innings versus a back-up is a huge difference.
And also consider if Chipper hangs them up next year, you either have to make a big move (FA or trade, and right now we have a serious surplus of pitching which will probably be how we cash in on a player in the future anyway) or deal with what you have. Cruz being added to the equation is a short term and long term benefit.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I agree with all of this
And on those pinch hitting appearances , how many times last year could we have used a productive bat like Prado’s in a pinch hitting role where the bases were loaded and no out , or with a runner on third with 1 out . That would have made a big difference in a few ballgames that I can remember last year . And you would still have a guy in LF who can hit 30+ HR’s and drive in 80+ RBI’s .
Not at all the point
If u think the best the braves are gonna get for JJ is Cruz than you haven’t paid attn too FW’s track record. FW doesn’t want just a straight up veteran older player swap, again: terrrrrrible business
But you mention explicitly that 3rd base is the need. So if you suggest that FW wants to look towards the future and stabilize the 3rd base position in the future then perhaps you are right. But, if development and the future is a focus of his then he should look in the organization. Lots of potential starters at 3rd in the next 2-4 years.
In the mean time, Prado could start at 3rd and do a pretty decent job, while Cruz potentially plays LF in 2013, all the while we have some potentially great bats reaching their critical moment.
It wouldn’t be terrible business at all, but would create a very strong team with a great front line and great flexibility for the next two years. You are simultaneously cashing in on a young prospect’s value (JJ) while also giving young, ready arms the chance to develop in the MLs. And even if you don’t believe that LF is being directly improved (which is a tough argument because Cruz is good) then you are substantially improving probably something like 400+ ABs. That’s good business.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
That's ur opinion the dude I voiced mine thats that
From my perspective u can’t expect any let alone every prospect even make the bigs. That’s called a gamble not “good” business
And I never said just 3rd base
How about Cf? Then LF when Cruz leaves in 2 years. Have an opinion but don’t put words in my mouth/keyboard
0% chance imo
Not bc Texas wouldn’t they MIGHT, but FW would never. He can/will get someone younger and who plays a position of need (center, 3rd). Suppose they do move Cruz though, Hamilton misses a month or something to injury. Now, that truckload of allstar bats just shrunk a good deal.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
That’s from above. And you at least alluded to it in reference to future “positions of need” so don’t pretend like I’m purposefully misconstruing what you said, because that isn’t my intention, nor do I think it happened even incidentally.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
What u just pasted
Says CF or catcher. And u can throw in left when Cruz contract is up
My point wasn’t to evilly twist your words, I just think that saying that you were referring (either directly or indirectly) to 3rd base isn’t really incorrect. I mean we were talking briefly about when Chipper retires, which could make 3rd base a position of need full-time as soon as 2013, and in the mean time we have to be realistic that Chipper is not going to play 155 games this season, or probably not even that close, which means that our back-up is going to be more important because we can almost count on significant playing time, and if that back-up is Prado then our team is strong even in a bad situation.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Maybe I just think Cruz is overhyped idk
But I kno Frank wouldnt do it without more pieces involved. A lot of bloggers here dislike JJ or undervalue him, but kids a stud and has been since he came up. Also Cruz is a much bigger injury risk than JJ IMO. Not to mention older
Cruz is pretty damn good. A pretty much even defender, with a career OPS+ 115. Last year’s line of .263/.312/.509/.821 was actually below his career line of .270/.330/.504/.834. The lower slugging in his career line is largely caused by his first 3 years (basically a combined ~150 games of .400 or lower, which seems to be very far behind him.)
Did I mention that he absolutely smashes lefties? .340/.396/.700/1.096 in 111 PA in 2011.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Better than Uggla on a purely statistical basis.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Older than uggla
Doesn’t play as much as uggla. And prado ain’t half bad either
No they are both great, but as I’ve said earlier Prado and Cruz are not as mutually exclusive as you might think.
But look again at those numbers above and tell me you wouldn’t want that in the line-up? That’s some pretty solid numbers, and really helps us against the dreaded lefty. He does strike out a lot, but he is also a very talented hitter.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I've agreed all along Cruz is a good player
My point is the position he plays and that him for JJ would not make me happy with that return. Frank can and will do better
Re-read
“the position he plays and that him for JJ would not make me happy”
You can’t allow yourself to base your value of a player just on oyur emotions of the guy . JJ is a good pitcher . But I think you may overvalue him a little too much . Wren has a greater understanding of Jair’s value that is percieved from the other GM’s in baseball . And if returns like Seth Smith , Adam Jones , and Delmon Young are any indication of how other GM’s value Jair , then a trade for Cruz straight up for JJ would be a win for the Braves .
I didn't "base my value on emotions"
And just bc other GMs wanted him cheap doesn’t mean he’s not that good. It might just mean they were trying to buy low?? Mayb FW knows this and will let JJ prove he’s healthy ? Since frank did turn down them “market value” offers obviously he thinks hell get more. JJ was in the CY conversation till the ASB. and I’m pretty sure he had some minor injuries the other bad yr he had. He’s young a 1/2 starter. About 4 of them were just dealt last month so the market was rough. Frank isn’t going to take the delmon youngs of the world unless a top prospect is involved
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Hey guy
I have argued with others on JJ about him being an AS and him being young and this and that and the other . And guess what ? It got me no where either . The fact of the matter is although Wren is a master at trade negotiations , the word is out on how injured JJ has been and how he has pitched better than his peripherals would suggest . And maybe Wren values him highly as you suggest . But others probably won’t . But you are right that they should wait and see if JJ can rebuild his value before the AS break . But that in itself is a gamble . If he under performs his performance last year , then what ? We may not be able to get the same return that we can get for him right now . I would like to think that we will get the same JJ as last year and have him be able to completet the season . But then why would you trade him at the deadline if he is pitching well ? And if we don’t and assume he will be able to pitch the rest of the season and ends up injured shortly after the trade deadline , then what ? We will have options to put in his place , but will be back at square 1 come next offseason with this same situation with the same questions and the same debates over wether or not to trade him at his given value or risk another year with him on the roster .
yea the word is out that he hurt his knee gotcha
A knee can heal pretty easily with time off and rehab. When healthy he WILL pitch like it so thats a gamble ill take all day. And no matter how well he’s doing by the deadline that’s when you trade him and get the peices you need immediately and or the future. SP costs alot more than your giving credit.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
There are quite a few teams out there
with decent starting pitching in their systme now days . We aren’t the only team in baseball with depth at that position anymore . And his injury last year was a reoccurance from the year before from that injury . So there is a chance that it may happen again this year . And holding on to him to see if he can rebuild his value might be a greater risk than it would be to just trade him now . He could become injured again and if that happens , no one will want him . Or he could start pitching to what his peripherals would suggest and then he becomes less valuable .
The teams with pitchers that want to trade are who?
Matt garza, and then prospects. All of the “ifs” and “coulds” can easily be construed the other way so again I don’t understand. When teams need a starter that want to contend aren’t looking in the farm systems for an immediate fix. So no not “plenty” of teams fit the same discription
Lets see
Sanchez was traded from the Giants . Volstad from the fish . Volquez from the Reds . Pineda from the Mariners . Gonzalez from the Athletics . Carlos Zambrano from the Cubs . Travis Wood from the Reds . Mat Latos from the Padres . Trevor Cahill from the Athletics .
All starting pitchers that were traded this offseason . We have a good bit of depth at the starting pitching position . But so do a few other teams and sometimes a trade happens from a team with not so much depth . You can’t just count on us to make a splash with a trade for JJ when the need for a starter becomes less and less needed with alll those other teams already filling those holes . And again , you can’t honestly sit there and tell me that you know for a FACT that JJ will be able to put up the same numbers as last year or stay healthy enough to even last long to be traded .
No I can't say for a fact
But I’d put good $ on it. And talking about guys already traded just shows there’s not much LEFT now. So like every year a surprise team or injury or something in the works now will happen.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
“So like every year a surprise team or injury or something in the works now will happen.”
And I guess you seen this through your crystal ball ? JJ was ok in 2008 . Good in 2009 . Bad in 2010 and injured . Good in 2011 and injured . I see no pattern there that would suggest that he is a guarnteed lock to be good again this year , if he doesn’t break down before the AS break .
Then you see what you see and I'll do the same
You keep arguing the same thing pup. I’ve SAID the same thing thinking you might just understand this time. But you didn’t, or you just don’t want me too like JJ I don’t know what it is but it got old about a day ago and I’m not defending MY stance again regarding anything about the topic.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
It's hard to agree
with someone who doesn’t believe in hard evidence like actual numbers and stats . There is no proof to your madness of just believing a player will suceed based on your opinion .
There is no better trade that I can see (FW is a master of the jedi mind trick though) that gets us better than a Cruz-Prado situation. If you can muster a better trade then sell it and I’ll be on board. But the best case scenario I see for the Braves is an acquisition of Cruz.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Also worth noting is that any organization hopes they can field a player that can provide the numbers that Cruz can over the next two years, and for that he has value.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Didnt one of you just argue that Cruz had the same WAR as prado last year???
All while Prado played everywhere on the diamond and had a really down year for prado??? The Braves dont NEED a Thumper that bad, they have enough of em. They need a guy like Prado who puts the ball in play and they need to start looking for replacements for next year. I’m not going to run through who i think they can get prospect or otherwise im just saying Frank will get better than Cruz
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Thats just it though
there really isn’t anyone else out there that is better than Cruz that plays LF . You can’t start talking about CF yet cause thats next year . No one knows whats gonna happen with Bourn yet . Heyward has RF . So the only place to really look at that we may be able to improve on is LF . And there just isn’t anyone out there who would be acquirable with better numbers and plays LF . Don’t say Bautista . I doubt we would give up what it would take to get him .
Prado is the LF
And for the record AGAIN. JJ will get Wren a good part time ML ready LF PLUS a prospect for the future. Y waste a really good trade chip on one player for 2 years. Than u still have the holes next yr and 1 less trade chip.
Prado could be
But if we do trade him , don’t expect a platoon guy for a return + a prospect . Otherwise we would have already done that for Seth Smith . I don’t think Wren is looking for a platoon guy . I think he is wanting a guy to put out no matter if a lefty or righty is pitching . If you think about it , we already have platoon players for LF in Hinske in Diaz .
Cruz has been good when he has played
where JJ has only been good 2 out of the 4 years he has played . Both have been injured . But as far as production , Cruz would have the upper hand .
JJ is still learning the game at a young age
And he’s getting better if last yrs stats mean anything to u. He was the braves ace when he took the mound and was the only starter to make it 7+ innings more often then not. I think ur undervaluing SP in ML
by PhillyBrave on Jan 14, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
No
I think you are undervaluing my intelligance when it comes to baseball in general . JJ was great for the team …………when he wasn’t hurt . And I know JJ is a good pitcher . But he hasn’t shown that he can pitch a full season in 4 years except once . In those 4 years , he had an ok season in ‘08 then a good season in ’09 . Then he regressed in ’10 . And then last year , well you already know . I believe he has more value than what other teams and their fans give him credit for . But I don’t think he holds as much value as you give him credit for . And , I still think we would be lucky to recieve a Cruz type player in return for JJ . I just don’t think JJ will be able to sustain years of 200 innings and a below 3.00 ERA .
ok you don't THINK he'll be able too
So suppose he does sustain his success and stays healthy?? whats he worth then? And as far as him being good when he wasnt hurt Cruz isnt good when hes hurt either, also older bigger SO guy more likely to fall apart sooner. And it does nothing to address the real needs of the club so it just won’t happen
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
OK
I know you’re not a fan of advanced stats . I wasn’t either , and am still a little ignorant about most of them . But , JJ doesn’t strike out a lot of batters . And his GB rate really isn’t that high . His walk totals were a little better last year , and that helped . But the fact is , he doesn’t miss a lot of bats . He has also had some pretty decent defense behind him . His projected stats for this year provided by ‘rotochamp’ are 175 innings and an ERA of 3.50 . Those numbers are a little more of a realistic projection than the numbers that you may projected for him (200+ innings and sub 3 ERA) . And if he can pitch to the projections from ‘rotochamp’ , then he is still a good pitcher , but definitely not a stud as you would suggest . Believe me , you are totally entitled to your opinion on him . But I think most of MLB and probably Wren himself , only see him for what he actually is . Someone who is only gonna be able to pitch 170 innings and have an ERA around that 3.50 mark .
Hudson doesnt miss bats either
So he must not be so great bc his peripherals say he’s not as good as what he’s doing. This has been said about JJ since he came up but he keeps doing his thing. No matter what the reports say, if they say he’s ready too go he could also get past these injuries. All a guessing game so u can’t tell me thats what JJ is putting up this yr Bc that’s the projection. What was Jheys last yr?? Ugglas?? It goes both ways dude
Huddy's
%GB rate is greater than Jurrjens . He also SO more than 1 more than Jurrjens last year and was almost a full 1 greater on his SO/BB ratio . Huddy has also allowed less in H/9 over the last several years as well .
Hudson’s %GB percentage last year was ranked #4 in all of MLB at %56.7 .
Jurrjens’ didn’t show up in the rankings but according to Fangraphs had a %GB of %40.0 which would have put him in the ranked spot of #72 .
Huge difference .
Gb%?
So u just cherry picked some projections. Now I’ll ask again, what were JHeys? Uggla? And every player in baseball if u want
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
Those aren't projections .
Those were the final stats (concreted stats in other words , they actually already happened) of last year . It shows that Hudson is a groundball pitcher , and a good one . He makes his living making the other batters hit the ball on the ground more than %50 of the time . JJ was more of a fly ball pitcher who struck out less per nine innings and gave up an extra hit per nine innings last year . JJ pitched well last year . But those stats would suggest that he had a really good defense behind him and a bit of luck as well .
Ok kid
So JJs lower ERA when healthy that’s a “concrete” stat that already happened. It’s not hard too manipulate stats and saying huddy K’d more as if that’s his style?? Why mention it? It means nothing regarding future
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
I have argued the ERA stat before
and realized as someone else told me that ERA is a product of the pitcher+defense+ballpark . So that is a stat that is somewhat unreliant as it deals with other factors as well as the pitcher . In other words , other factors hepled him have a lower ERA .
I know we are exchanging opinions, it’s only an opinion, nothing personally so no need to assume I’m persecuting you, I just though there might be a good discussion here is all.
It is also not good business to assume that none of your prospects pan out. In my opinion it would be worst business to go ahead and stock up in every position of need and risk having a valued young commodity blocked because we had to solve a position. In my scenario it is likely that at least one person will pan out, and if not we are at least talking about a problem that will occur in 2014 in my scenario, so it isn’t like solutions are impossible.
My overall point is that it sets us well to allow for optimal minor-league development while maximizing the talent of our team right now. The flexibility and talent of a team with Prado as the first guy off the bench is staggering.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Yea I agree Cruz can make 99.99% of teams better
I’m saying that’s just not how FW does business. Kinda like when chip went down 2 yrs ago an everyone is thinking Aramis or some 3B. And there came Derrick lee. Just sayin
Yea but he also added Uggla last year when absolutely no body was thinking about 2nd base, which moved Prado to our real position of need in LF.
That is not dissimilar to acquiring Cruz to play LF while using Prado as the uber-super-utility man, using him in every of the 18 interleague games, and using him as a defensive change/pinch-hitter, while backing up the unfortunately fragile Chipper (30-70 games), backing up Cruz (20-50 games) and giving regulars the occasional day off.
The point is that he is benefiting the team by improving the total team rather than focusing on net changes in specific spots. Just as Uggla at 2nd and Prado in LF improved the team, so does Cruz in LF, Prado as super-utility.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Ok so when Javy got traded
Frank got a stop gap melky and prospects. Prado in left, a Seth smith or better type of player to play them fill ins, and prospects
I think the point is that FW isn’t a one trick pony, and seems to look at the team fabric as a whole when making moves rather than focusing on the micro in the form of a single position.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
He's not a one trick pony ur right
He still wouldn’t make this deal. Unless someone gets hurt or slumps terribly and he has to do something
If we are talking about FW’s intent then I might agree. But the bigger point is that he is going to try to improve the ball club. And did I mention that Cruz-JJ is almost even salary wise. JJ is unlikely to play more than 2 years without an additional contract, so Cruz and JJ are almost equal in their rental value.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I also have to imagine that the GM of both clubs like such a mutually beneficial deal.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I imagine Wren wouldnt like the deal
plain and simple. That’s not how Frank makes deals, the $ has nothing to do with it. FW knows he’ll lose JJ if he tries keeping em, which is why he’s shopping him, and when teams see how JJ responds maybe then they’ll pony up the asking price of frank.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I imagine
that if Frank was so confident in JJ’s ability to comeback from his injury , that maybe JJ’s name would have never came up in trade rumors . He has recently said that he sees both JJ and Prado being on the ballclub by spring training . But he has also said that he’s not done trying (to make a trade) . My guess would be that he did some shopping around (as all GM’s should do) and found out that he wasn’t gonna get his way (for once) and decided to back off for a while and let things cool down . He may try again before spring training . Who knows . But none of the rumors JJ has been linked to has exactly looked even close to a win for the Braves .
And that's why frank turns em down
He doesn’t NEED to move him, he can. Other GMs want the best deal possible also and the “reports” usually leave out the minor league pieces that could be involved. Or did Baltimore turn down that 4-1 trade frank “reportedly” offered?
I think
that the report for A. Jones was media related . I don’t see Wren (or any other GM) offering that much for Jones . I also don’t believe that the O’s GM would have turned that trade down , as reported . And you’re right , as I stated before , that Wren doesn’t have to make a move . But if it improves the ballclub then I’m sure he would pull the trigger . And most of us on here would agree that a Cruz like player would be an improvement that could help the ballclub . So I wouldn’t never say that Wren wouldn’t do it . I think it’s as much a possiblity as the Uggla trade was last . No one seen that coming either .
Uggla was a steal
JJ is a 1/2 young SP. you did see the returns them teams got last month during the SP frenzy? And hopefully for the last time; Nelson Cruz IS GOOD. my opinion is that frank will want more than that for JJ. Plain and simple
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Those pitchers
that you are referring to didn’t just have two years of not just a injury , but a injury of same circumstance than the year before . If it happens again this year , be prepared for JJ to carry a label of an ‘injury proned’ pitcher .
Latos has never been called injury prone?
Pineda either I guess? You say IF it happens again. So again IF it doesn’t than what??
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
That is what I was saying to you .
Thats why those pitchers netted such a nice return . And thats why JJ won’t recieve that much in a return , right now .
And if he CAN make it through a full season with 30+ starts , then great . As I have stated before , I like JJ . And I hope he can overcome that label . I still don’t think he has much of a future with this ball club . But that mainly has to do with the other options we have and his agent (Scott Boras) .
U say when chip hangs em up FW will probably make a trade?
That’s the exact reason I’m saying he’s not trading for a 2 year rental LF unless it’s coming with a Vizcaino quality player; ex: javy Vasquez trade
Prado plays 3rd, Cruz plays LF in 2013 while we wait for some of our offensive prospects to pan out.
Also worth noting is that 2 years is a pretty long time and JJ and Cruz’s contracts pretty evenly off-set. Calling it a rental is only partly true, and considering that Cruz can fit into the 2013 plan flawlessly then it isn’t like he is going to outlive his value.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Again, pay attn to how FW operates. He may do something. May not.
It won’t be Nelson Cruz.
Which prospects
Are going to pan out? And how do u know?
A very true point. So is your response to never give them the opportunity. The point is what you call a rental might just be a place-holder. the thing is we WILL know, or at least have a good idea, at the end of this coming season, and an even better idea after 2013.
But just as I don’t know which or who or even if any will pan out, your move blocks at least some of our potentially best products by suggesting that we need to add a young player.
My point is that you might not need to add a young player in 2014 because that problem could be solved internally, and in the mean time Cruz and Prado can both play.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Which CF internally?
Terdo has what 1 pro season? Drury far from a lock. Salcedo hasn’t done a thing considering the hype. A lot of holes to fill internally when like we all know, pitching is the strength
Possibly Myke Jones, but I’m not any kind of confident. CF is a position where dominance is sparse. Perhaps we lock up Bourn, but that is highly unlikely and even more useless to speculate on before he plays a full season in a Braves uniform.
Of course there will always be spots to fill, especially if we are looking at 1,2, or 3 years in the future. But Cruz is a 2 year solution, and Prado is able to fill in at 3rd if Chipper retires before 2013 (which seems kinda likely to me but it’s all speculation.) All this is accomplished with some of our surplus trading without really adding any payroll. Nothing in this scenario really changes our future ability to fill holes.
In fact, if your stance that we can trade JJ as a major piece to fill all of our future needs then that is mighty presumptuous. Either way I think JJ can provide a major return in the form of Cruz which helps is in lots of ways.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I'm not saying JJ will fill all holes
Hell fill 1 hopefully. Then fill another with a FA or another trade. Cost controlled players make it much easier to operate when there’s a budget and I just don’t think using JJ for a 2 yr player only is maximizing his value
There’s nothing to suggest that JJ is going to play for the Braves after 2 years either, and Cruz isn’t that much more expensive, so it’s really a fair swap of long-term and short term value/cost.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
JJ isnt going to be with Atlanta when he's up.
Hell be traded unless he gives a discount then tommy will most likely go. Just not for a LF. LF is about the easiest position to fill why waste the trade chip?
I would agree, but what is there to say that we can get a better LF than Cruz/Prado. I’m not sure that we can, especially if we consider Cruz’s relatively cheap contract.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
And also, the idea that LF is the easiest position has to be driving FW crazy at this stage. I mean he’s been hearing about it for years and years.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Prado will/would be a fine LF
Considering the LF’s around the leauge its not exactly the most important positon. There’s maybe a handful of stars that are in left. When Prado moves to 3rd he can sign a Cody Ross type guy or when he trades JJ or whomever he’ll make a Seth Smith type player part of the package to go with what he really wants. This sounds more likely/realistic to me.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
By trading JJ for Cruz
It’s basically like getting nothing considering JJ’s up in 2 years so is Cruz. So in 2 years he’d be right where he would be if he kept JJ… Again NOT how frank does biz
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Jurrjens’ value is replaced by another pitcher. Cruz pushes Prado to the bench/30~50 games at 3B. The net is more runs and more wins.
The Rangers will not trade one of their legitimate bats for a middling pitcher they could get for a trade with just prospects. They are high payroll contenders, and will not trade their starting right fielder for a mid-rotation pitcher. This trade only benefits Atlanta.
Pushing prado to the bench
regardless of how many AB’s he gets, is bad for team morale. Martin’s a great clubhouse guy busts his ass and he deserves to start. If they told Martin he’s going to be Utility this year he’ll be asking to be traded because he’s done enough to be a team first guy but pulling him completely says to him they dont respect what he does. Also, the reason i don’t like Cruz over Prado is the BALANCE when Prado’s not having a career worst year.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Please see my other post re: the general tone of this forum. You will not win any friends here arguing about team morale and intangibles. Please visit the ESPN forums if that is your stance.
Are u president of the forum guy?
You build a team from within and they respect and play for one another. The philly team that won the series years ago were together for a pretty long time. TB stays building from within. And as far as nelson Cruz’s greatD. I seem to have flashes of him half assing the would be final out of the WS. So yea I think morale and intangibles count for something, otherwise just sign Manny to play left…
The core of a team
should come from within . But you would still have to bring people in to fill in other needs . Prado’s biggest asset to this team is his versatility . Why not use that to help the ballclub in a Super UT role ? Prado’s career best year was worth 3WAR . Cruz has had two years at the same position where he has put up a 3.8 and 4.3 WAR . That , despite what you may think , would be an improvement over Prado’s best year . We don’t have to make a move . Prado does play servicable LF . But if we were to make a trade , it would be to improve a position . And Cruz in LF would be an improvement based on stats .
Ok I get it
Ur just going too keep repeating that Cruz is a baller as if I haven’t said so. Its not the point I’m not going thru it again
Debating is one of those things
where no one really wins . One can only hope to understand a little more than he did before . Unfortunately , I have failed to understand anything from debating with you . So I guess it would be a ‘loss’ .
Yankees and M's swapping Montero for Pineda
Its unexpected blockbusters like this that give me hope for a major movie still.
This trade came the same way most of Wren’s have; completely out of the blue.
Lets hope Frankie is working on something /
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Great trade for both clubs
The Yanks pitching staff just went from eh? Too stacked in a few hrs. Theyll be a scary spaud if Arod n Jeter don’t fall apart
Considering how rich we are in the valued commodity of pitching you have to think that the Braves are capable of putting such a move together.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Of course they 'can'
But they’re also not as desperate for offense. And the M’s got pretty fair value with the pitching prospect NY threw in
I guess the bigger point is that the Braves have the rare luxury of having serious value in a highly coveted position that they could trade from without really hurting their immediate future. That’s an unusual and awesome situation to be in as a franchise.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Absolutely
Although its not easy letting the prospects go unless it’s a haul in return. Frank could be better off trading a non-big-leaguer with great/good upside to a team trying to rebuild and would probably pay the salary.
This is an interesting trade
I like both sides, but I think the evaluations have made little sense so far. Pineda had major elbow injury history coming into 2010, and now we suddenly forget about it because of two years. I love the Yankees get in Campos, who may be a reliever, but he’ll be a high-velocity excellent reliever if that’s all he becomes. I’m a bigger fan of the Mariners side, though. They have arguably the best trio of pitching prospects in the game right now that are a year away, but they have little on the way in power bats. You get Montero for your lineup and Noesi is no slouch. He should be a 3/4 starter for a long time. I’ve heard things about how Montero won’t have as much power going to Seattle, but that’s crap. The dimensions in Seattle to left, left-center, and center are actually MORE favorable than Yankee Stadium. Where he’ll likely see some drop off is that he won’t get to hit in Fenway, Toronto, and Baltimore, but will instead hit in Anaheim and Oakland. This is a great move for both teams, but the Mariners to me have won this deal slightly.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 14, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
Diaz?
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
They definitely did not trade for Diaz in order to pay him $2MM to play elsewhere. I do not believe he has options. Barring injury, Diaz has a guaranteed bench spot.
Ya, Diaz is in. He loves ATL and the club, and his contract at least gives him top billing over Constanza.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
But to be fair, hopefully FW is judging Diaz’s value to the 2012 club independently of contract value. To do otherwise would be unfair to the club.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I’m thinking Wren is banking on Diaz’ 2011 performance against LHP being a fluke. Career .375 wOBA vs. LHP, but only .307 in 2011 thanks for a complete lack of power. That lack of power is a lot more alarming than in increasing K rate or decrease in BABIP, and could very well point to Diaz being finished, but he’s only a year removed from a .357 wOBA performance against LHP in 2010
Diaz should have to win the job from Constanza or Sutton.
Wilson is needed to backup SS
Ross is needed to backup C
Hinske is needed to backup 1B, and play LF (at least platoon) when Chipper or Heyward are hurt.
This leaves 2 slots for Diaz/Constanza/Sutton
Sutton has good OBP skills, and might be able to out-hit Diaz vs lefties while providing actual defense
Constanza is the best CF backup we have, unless you want to move Heyward there. (I shudder at Prado in CF)
Diaz can mash lefties, but that’s about it, and if he can’t do that, then he’s a AAA ballplayer.
$2mil for a AAA player is a waste, but it’s less of a waste then $2mil and an unproductive roster spot.
1. Prado at SS
2. Uggla in CF
3. ????
4. Profit!
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 15, 2012 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
Diaz can mash lefties and plays for a team with no batter that can mash lefties. I think you see why he is going to be given a chance.
With Wilson now guaranteed a roster spot, Sutton is unlikely to have a role — and since he’s not a short stop, it’s doubtful he had much of a shot to begin with. Wren did not acquire Diaz to pay him $2MM+ for 37 plate appearances. He will be on the 25-man roster.
Constanza is the best CF backup we currently have, which tells a lot about our minor league center field depth. He might be slightly above replacement level ala Gregor Blanco. It would be nice to see Wren get a more capable backup CF and stash Constanza in the minors.
Wren acquired Daiz because at the time, the Braves could not score runs, were losing games at an alarming rate, were in danger of possibly losing the wildcard slot, and he was an available and cheap veteran RH bat. Given his lousy 2011 production and the fact that he will be 34 in March, the Caveman could very well be finished. I’m thinking it’s 50-50 he makes the team.
Wren had countless other options who were not guaranteed $2MM in 2012. If he had planned on only using Diaz for a handful of games in 2011, he would have traded for someone else. He will 100% be on the 25-man roster, barring injury.
If this was the case, why wasn’t Kawakami on the Roster last year, he was just as finished and was making $7mil.
If he can’t mash lefties, he’s done as a player. If Diaz is hitting like Constanza vs lefties, then you keep Constanza as the 5th OF.
Personally, in terms of my pinch-hitters , I’d prefer slappers who can get on base like Constanza and Sutton then sluggers like Conrad. Usually you’re PHing for the pitcher, which will mean Bourn and Prado are following. You want one power guy though (Hinske fills that role)
I really wish MLB would use the Japanese roster rule- 28 guys, 25 can dress for any given game. Would improve benches so much.
Kawakami is a different case. Wren did not acquire Kawakami toward the end of a season knowing full well that, no matter how he produced in a limited sample size, he would still have to pay him the money.
Do you really think that Wren has such poor foresight that he would acquire a player like Diaz, see what he can do for ~40 plate appearances, and then pay him $2MM to go away? With all of our budget constraints?
There’s no guarantee that Diaz will be on the roster all year, but he will absolutely be given a chance. Wren is not throwing away $2MM to give Drew Sutton more at bats.
100% on the 25 man???
Where’s ur stats guy? That argument is foolish if u have no stats haven’t u heard?
Does your Dad let you flip the burgers?
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
by carpengui on Jan 15, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Dad let me flip burgers???
Are u 12 and that’s supposed to be a “funny joke” because it really doesn’t make sense pup. Take that too the schoolyard u might get beat up…
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know him personally
but ‘carpengui’ seems to have a very good handle on the Braves and baseball in general , as do most of the guys on here . He seems to be open minded while at the same time willing to offer an intelligent opinion . I’m not so sure that I can say the same for you .
A good handle on baseball?
What does the “burger flipping” have to do with baseball?? So how good a handle are we talking about since your speaking on his behalf for whatever reason?? Any pro level? College? Maybe Indy? What is it??
by PhillyBrave on Jan 16, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Back up
carp was making a VERY common joke around this board. If you come to a well-established forum and expect it to move around you, you’ll be sadly disappointed. You’ve added very little but post count to this thread, and it’s rather sad because honest, fruitful discussion could be had on the topic if approached with an open mind. Open would be the farthest from the description of your current mindset, and you’ll struggle around here until you appreciate that.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 16, 2012 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
I need the open mind ?
Because I value JJ more than some kid and he wants too just argue too death because he can’t accept that JJ is a good pitcher. But that’s all on me for explaining my position? Read a little more careful. As far as the joke, farv said it, why is the kid replying too it as if it came from him or he’s trying to pile on?
I'm not going to let you upset me
by calling me kid , when you have no idea how old I am in the first place . If you would look at any of my post , excluding the ones where I have been poking jokes about you , no where will you see any implications of me being a kid . I happen to be 36 years old . And I have been doing my best to keep a level head and not stoop down to your level of maturity while debating with you .
And I never said JJ was NOT a good pitcher . I actually said that he was a good pitcher . He is just not a ‘stud’ pitcher like you have labeled him .
As the other TCer below stated
he was just posting a joke and having a little fun with . If you are going to openly post one-sided opinions , chances are , you will be criticized . I was a few times on here for the same reasons . Now I understand that my opinion isn’t always going to be shared by everyone , if anyone . You’ll learn in time also grasshopper . Or you’ll get mad and leave .
I'll stick with my opinions and what I think is right
I’ll take the “criticism” no problem, I’ll explain why I feel like I do, no problem. But your not going too tell me I’m wrong just because you don’t feel the same way.
I have never actually came out and said that you were ‘wrong’ about anything . I HAVE said that you are entitled to your opinion . And you are . We all are . But never have I said that you were ‘wrong’ . Just because I disagree with you doesn’t imply that I think you are wrong . It just says that we have a different opinion on the matter , which we are allowed to have .
You haven't implied that you think I'm wrong
But I’ve had too explain my stance over 150 times why?? If my opinion is just that than why do you keep challenging it??
To debate each others opinion on this matter .
You give your stance on the matter . And then I come back with a different view of opinion on that same matter while opening up a possible new matter of debate . I thought that was the whole point of this blog ? Whats the point of you just stating your opinion only with no one being able to debate it . And once you find something else to add to your point , that allows me to debate that as well .
See how that works ? Even if it takes ‘150’ times .
Ok but when I still don't agree with your debate
And I stand firm that I value JJ more than you, you still come back and tell me “no he’s injury prone, Cruz will help the club” I disagreed why keep repeating if it’s going nowhere??
It has been going somewhere .
We have been debating about many things that have to do with a trade like this . And it’s ok to over value JJ . You are a fan . You’re allowed to do that . But after traveling down the same debate road about JJ with others on here and other blogs , I see differently on his value . I have said the same things that you have . He’s ‘young’ . He was an ‘AS’ . His injury was not a shoulder or arm and won’t affect his value . I have said all those things . But after understanding what some of his advanced stats means , and hearing other things about possible past injuries in the minors , and the fact that his %GB was actually pretty low , I started to understand why others didn’t value him as highly as I did . JJ is good . He may continue to be good for a while . But , it would be a better guess to say that he will be good at times and come back down to Earth eventually with glimpses afterwards that he can still pitch smartly and be productive .
Congratulations, Philly Brave! You have just been voted SB Nation’s Narcissist of the month! Go to SB Nation’s headquarters located at the boat to nowhere to claim your prize!
Seriously!?
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
by ryan c on Jan 15, 2012 2:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Rubber wall???
You’ve been saying the same thing over and over like ur freakin rain man. I know plenty of u stat geeks who frequent my fantasy league and let me tell ya that all them projections do NOTHING for em. I’ve played 2 yrs won both leagues without looking at a Joey Votto or rickie weeks projection, imagine that.
Have fun
in your ‘fantasy’ league while us here in the world of reality continue to have ‘realistic’ debates that remain open minded and rely on stats and past accomplishments .
Again them PAST accomplishes
They just tell everything u need to know before they even play huh?? I know what ur stats mean kid, I just really don’t care to go and compare SIERRA’s and wrc+ and fWar, because what happened in 2005,2006,2007,2008,2009,2010 PROVES nothing
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh .
Your ignorance and the fact that you are so stubborn keeps me intrigued at my keyboard . Check your high school dictionary to find intrigued to see what that means . I’m sure you will find it in your backpack by your bunkbed .
School dictionary?
Is this supposed too mean I don’t comprehend or you think I’m in school?? I’m really having a hard time with these odd “jokes”. And having conviction in your belief, opinion or whatever it is isn’t ignorant. Suppose I’m right? Does that make you ignorant???
by PhillyBrave on Jan 16, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Just poking fun at your disbelief
in how stats can be a basis for a players projected performance . It shows what that player has done in the past and what to expect from him in the future .
Ok so I'll ask for a 3rd time
What was JHeys projection last yr? How about uggla?? Prado?? Projection is a guess not a science like you want too believe
It is indeed a science .
It’s a mathematical estimation based on prior seasons to project how that player will perform that next season . They are never going to be spot on . That would be by pure luck to have a player’s projection to be completely accurate . But they do give a very good idea of what to expect from that player that upcoming season .
Estimation=guess
If its a science than yes it is much more spot on than what happens from year to year.
So then you're telling me that
your way of ‘just knowing’ is better than a measurement used by a baseball anylist ? It may not be a perfect way to measure a player next season . But it sure beats the hell out of ‘just knowing’ .
How often does it beat it??
The advanced stats mostly use “ifs, an park factor” that’s not going too tell you what a guy will do this year. Every year you’ll find a ton of analyst “projections” way off. And if you follow the sport enough than yea I think you could get just as close as the projections do. It’s all a guess in reality. You also still haven’t told me JHey prado ugglas projections from last year?????
Anti-intellectual? Check.
Anti-analytical? Check.
“Gut feeling” over statistic evidence? Check.
An apparent allergy to correct spelling and grammar? Check.
I really have to wonder how you were linked to this forum. I think it’s safe to safe you will not enjoy a majority of the content here.
Rotochamp.com won't let me get into their 2011 projections
or I can’t figure out how to find them . But here are their 2012 projected numbers :
Heyward :
(from fangraphs)529 AB’s/21 HR’s/102 RBI’s/.280 BA/.379 OBP/.469 SLG
(from Cairo)397 AB’s/14 HR’s/48 RBI’s/.252 BA/.346 OBP/.426 SLG
(from rotochamp)505 AB’s/20 HR’s/71 RBI’s/.253 BA/.363 OBP/.436 SLG
Uggla:
(fangraphs)585 AB’s/33 HR’s/98 RBI’s/.256 BA/.337 OBP/.472 SLG
(Cairo)581 AB’s/31 HR’s/89 RBI’s/.255 BA/.338 OBP/.465 SLG
(rotochamp)575 AB’s/32 HR’s/99 RBI’s/.250 BA/.337 OBP/.463 SLG
Prado:
(fangraphs)546 AB’s/12 HR’s/73 RBI’s/.293 BA/.347 OBP/.438 SLG
(Cairo)394 AB’s/9 HR’s/43 RBI’s/.281 BA/.328 OBP/.419 SLG
(rotochamp)570 AB’s/13 HR’s/68 RBI’s/.282 BA/.330 OBP/.413 SLG
There you go . Are they up to your standards in your opinion . Or does your ‘guessing’ method show differently . And if you’re curious , they have a link to show you just how they generate their projections in case you doubt their abilities to professionally estimate each players totals .
Are u kidding dude??
I simply state I don’t like the suggestion. I’m told I’m wrong so I explain y I think so. It’s you who argues with me trying to like force me too accept “this is a great deal” would love to know how supporting my opinion is being a narcissist??? Or was it the snark comment about “stats” bc the guy is a hypocrite?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Even you . But others will not always see it your way and you have to realize that . I’ve been in your shoes before and felt so strong about a subject on here that I tried to argue my point with everyone and got the same results . And the more I argued , as you have , the more I was criticized for it . But it was partially my own fault for being so narrow sighted and only wanting to see it from my own perspective . If you will allow yourself to recieve some criticism without name calling and getting your panties in a wad , I’m sure you would be percieved better .
Dude it's really only you and 2 ppl arguing me
And if u want to say I shouldn’t be Narrow minded and listen too others opinion than u can say the same thing to itself and just dropped it about 150 comments ago
by PhillyBrave on Jan 15, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
It's a mistype
But again, hilarious “comeback” pup. Your on a roll now…
by PhillyBrave on Jan 16, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
"poop"
Did you really just say poop? Pup is exactly what it sounds like; just a puppy still wet behind the ears from the remarks you make you just come off as a kid IMO
I'm 24 years removed from being a kid .
18 years removed from being a teenager . And 15 years removed from finally being allowed to drink alchohol . Is your math good enough to figure out my age . Or was that too much of a riddle for you ?
I don't care how old you are
To me your nonstop arguing of the same damn subject is childish. So that’s what I call people who act in that manner.
I'd wager...
It’s about 25 more people, at the least, just ignoring you because it’s not worth the effort.
Just because you see only two people disagreeing doesn’t mean there’s only two disagreements. Personally, I avoid your comments because they aren’t worth the headache of pointing out all the flaws.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
This.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 16, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Yea I dunno why I bothered, but what I do know is that the urge to rosterbate has left me like the demon leaves a body after a successful exorcism.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I didn't say it's just 2 people disagreeing
I said its only 2 that are crucifying my opinion. Like you said, you just stayed away as I would have if those couple of people let a different opinion be just that
I wasn't trying to crucify
your opinion . I was just trying to show you that there are two different sides of the coin . For everything you threw at me , there was always an alternative to your theory . The same could be said about mine . It was a good debate and I enjoyed most of it .
And congratulations to u ryan
U just made THE FUNNIEST joke in the world!!!
One comment calling you narcissitic...
and you reply 3 times _
And please, for the love of all that is holy, type out YOU. Y – O – U. You already have the letter U used ad naseum. Just simply ad the Y and the O and I will be able to at least get through one of your sentences.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Seconded
Tough to take a thought seriously when Y means why and U means you.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Third
People who abbreviate a three letter word tend to emit this unmistakeable signal that their time is so important that they cannot waste it by communicating with me.
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
by Chipper Pwns on Jan 15, 2012 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
Even the best written lines look stupid when squeezed into Twitterspeak.
“u take it from me we r loseing this war b/c we can salute 2 well” – All Quiet on the Western Front
“i want 2 put my hand out and touch u. i want 2 do 4 u and care 4 uu. i want 2 be their when ur sick & when ur lonesome” – Ethan Frome
“u have renounced home and parents, u have renounced ur own will, u have renounced friendship. that is what the teachings preach, that is the will of the illustrious one. that is what u wished for urself. tmrw, Govinda, I will leave u.” – Siddhartha
My favorite
Yabba Dabba Do….Fred Flintstone
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
I would just like to point out that not all Braves fans in Philadelphia are like this.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Nope
One of the better ones I know splits his time between Jersey and Philly. This particular gentleman/lady is not setting a good standard for those without that good experience, though.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 16, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Needless to say, finding Braves fans around here is a rare occurrence, but whenever I do find them they seem to be fairly “hardcore” fans. I think living in enemy territory tends to weed out the weak fans, so the ones that make it through are forced to be knowledgeable and thick-skinned in order to put up with the crap they get every time they as much as wear a Braves hat to town.
And, then there’s this guy.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Not like what??
I could insult the braves fans in Atlanta for the empty seats on a nightly basis but I have more respect than that. I go to every brave game at CBP with my “gear” no problem even in a packed house. You can’t buy a baseball fix here unless you plan a good time ahead so if we want too insult let’s start with WHY the braves have a budget? Nothing to do with attendance Or is that the transportations fault???
Your heart and name may say 'Braves' fan
but your attitude shown in our little debate and towards anyone that has made a comment about you would say otherwise .
Attitude??
Are you kidding?? Did I start “joking” as you called it when I explained why I think that proposal won’t happen? Or is that the " childish" behavior you resorted too?? And as far as speaking for other people? Why do you feel the need?? Do you want to be liked or just can’t think for yourself?
As I recall
My opinion on and attitude the whole time towards you has remain the same until today . While you have used some ‘name calling’ while debating , which is fine (I’ve been called worse by much better) I have kept the debate as simple as possible by explaining my view on the subject without an attitude or bad language or any hostility . Today , I just figured seeing how you are so intent on getting your point across to me and anyone else wiiling to read , that I would just have a little fun with you . If you can’t handle that or a little criticism of your opinion , then the problem lies with someone else other than me . The ‘childish behavior’ was due to the ‘childish behavior’ I was recieving just because you were upset that I wouldn’t accept your belief in your opinion . And I’m sure everyone on here can speak for themself just fine . I’m no leader on here . But I don’t care too much for someone who is going to bash someone else for having a little fun either . It’s ok to stand up for someone else , right? And he probably was done debating with you anyways considering that you are so close minded . Not many on here will talk to you if you aren’t willing to at least accept that there may be alternatives to your opinion .
I know I'm probably not helping matters any
by continiously debating with him . But I am kinda having fun doing it . His ‘childlike’ comments have me almost bursting into tears from laughter .
Sure you are dude
That’s why you’ve been challenging everything I’ve said right? Not because you’d like too get Cruz for JJ and I say bad deal??
Guy , I have posted several times that it wasn’t necassarily Cruz himself that I was talking about , but a Cruz-like player . But Cruz would be a nice acquisition though . LOL .
I’m at the point now that if – somehow – we end up with Cruz, I would be the happiest guy on the planet… because I would have enough material to use in profile quotes for another decade.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
profile quotes gets you excited huh??
your life must be extremely interesting if that’s what you look forward too. At the same time, when Wren gets a better deal than Nelson Cruz, I’ll make myself a nice little quote explaining how your stats meant nothing and JJ did exactly what i said he would. What’s your point ??
You really don’t get it, do you?
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
No i get it
My point is you have NO evidence what wren is thinking. He’s already said he won’t make a trade just too make one. I’ve BEEN saying he would never do such a deal thats being mentioned. Now you come out with this snark comment after i dropped it awhile ago, so I’ll just show you that same snark comment. Your guess is no better than mine and i bet mine is more likely. Drop it if you don’t want too hear it anymore, and when something happens we’ll revisit k?
Wow guy
I thought we were done with this . You act as if no one else is entitled to their ‘own’ opinion of a JJ for Cruz deal . I can’t tell if you are really that much in love with JJ or you just really hat Cruz . Either way , read that first line you posted above . “you have NO evidence what wren is thinking” . You’re right . And this could be said to you as well . Wren may value JJ less than you . And you have no evidence to prove otherwise . Just an assumption of your opinion . He may also value Cruz more so than you . And you have no evidence to prove otherwise . Just an assumption of your own opinion . Stop being so negative towards everybody else . Everyone elses opinions on here are just as valuable as yours .
I wasn't talking to you so ya I've been done talking with you...
As far as the “joke” I’m supposed to take in stride? Why should I have to if I didn’t resort to such immaturity. And I could give two shits what carp was saying about my father and a BBQ I think it was? My father that passed away suddenly 7 months ago is ok too be mocked?? I shouldn’t have to explain my personal life to you people IT’S A BASEBALL BLOG!!!! Ignorant classless pos
You’re an angry angry man.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 17, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
I'm an angry man because I don't find my family being the butt end of a joke is appropriate?
Since this is a blog that apparently encourages childish nonsensical jokes about family members of strangers. Please each of you tell me if you have parents? Siblings? Wives? I have some jokes I want to share too than since its appropriate for a baseball blog. You tell me I’m narrow minded because my opinion is different than the one you share? So I HAVE to change MY opinion but you don’t??
It’s a fairly tight knit group on this blog, where joking around is encouraged and accepted. You’re more than welcome to frequent a different blog/site that is more impersonal or refrain from engaging in the comments section on this one. The “father” comment was in reference to a common “inside” joke around here and shouldn’t be construed as an insult to your father.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 17, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention that no one
knew what had happened to his father . It’s not like the joke was made to insult the guy . Just to poke a little fun .
No one knew? Am I supposed to give a life story before a comment?
As far as joking with FRIENDS I have no problem. I don’t know nor care to know any of your personal lives I commented on baseball. When a stranger is “joking” (if that’s what you want to call that comment) and obviously trying to pile on and belittle you it’s a lot different so please don’t try and tell me about courtesy
The point was
that you shouldn’t have blow up the way you did cause we had no way of knowing about your father .
No
The point is you don’t go up to a stranger and talk about their father…. Would you do that to a random person on the street really??
You have said that you have been on this post before mainly just reading without posting . Right ? Well if you have , then you would have known that the whole “dad lets you flip burgers” joke has been used on here on several occasions . It wasn’t a joke that was conjured up just for you .
Is that what I said??
That I read the comments you people write?? Or did I say I come for the ARTICLES to get the recaps and what not?
So because it's a joke that's ok?
You wouldn’t mind if I started talking about your toothless hillbilly mother/aunt incest hick. (just an inside joke between me and some friends about southerners you know)
How's it different??
You insult my family so I will stoop to your level of childishness. I didnt talk about anything other than baseball so no your wrong your just not man enough to admitt it and honestly idc
Except nobody insulted your family.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
So why is my father being mentioned on a baseball. Log??
And don’t tell me joke. Because your weird “joke” was meant as an INSULT
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
An insult to you, not your father. Are you really that thick-headed that you’re not able to differentiate between the two??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
sigh
Just to come clean – that burger-flipping line harkens back to a similar line uttered from the last highly-argumentative newbie on this blog.
It was essentially a funny (truly) attempt to compare you to him… a 14-year-old, who was banned shortly thereafter.
Look I see you signed up almost 2 years ago… you have made 191 comments total (as of the moment I’m typing this). 142 of them are on this thread alone.
You argue with literally everyone.
You seem to be driven to get the last word in.
You have taken all of the fun out of this.
Sorry, but when I said ‘you don’t get it’ – that’s what you aren’t getting.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I would admit except
I’m not the one who made the joke and quite honestly , I don’t think the joke was made to insult your family . The joke was made in light of possibly how “old” you are instead of picking at your father .
Seriously just shut the fuck up
You just don’t stop?? You complain that I keep answering you but you won’t let up. An insult is an insult either way you fucked up freaked out wierd people want to spin it
So since your a "tight knit group"
I should leave the blog because why? I didn’t comment here to make a group of Internet “buddies” I commented too talk about the JJ situation and what might happen. If you don’t agree that’s fine, it doesn’t mean I have to conform to YOUR opinion.
Maybe
it’s that attitude of you coming here to not make ‘buddies’ that has gotten you to this point . No one said you actually had to come here just to make friends . But coming here with a ‘friendly’ attitude would have been better than the attitude you have displayed so far .
Dude
Your really annoying. I had a fine “attitude” when I stated my opinion. YOU just wouldn’t let me have my opinion and 400 comments later here we are
What’s the point in posting if you just want everyone to agree with your opinion?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
Did I say I want them to agree?
Never. I said to each his own and dropped it until ‘dude’ brought back up with his oh so funny comedy …..
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
I could have dropped it
but it was your a few of your immature post towards me that kinda motivated me to stoop to your level of “class” .
I told no joke until YOU
Made it personal. Go back and look dumbass
I did look .
Your threw the first shot . I didn’t start with the jokes until you made it clear that we weren’t going to be “friends” . Aww…..oh well .
I'm sorry about your father
But if you can’t take a joke , you should probably go back to just reading on here and stop posting . But again , sorry about your father . Classy enough for you ?
Facebook Timeline
Jan. 15 6:30 pm MST: Carp posts joke about father
37 comments from PhillyBrave
Jan. 17 1:08 pm MST: PhillyBrave complains about joke because father died.
To be honest, I think you’re throwing a fit just to throw a fit. Sorry, but I don’t take any of your current whining sincerely. Grow up.
#cold-hearted
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 17, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s really hard to tell if he sincere about his opinion , or just happy to see his sig on this post so many times .
Keep on piggybacking dude
It is what you do after all
I would be willing to bet
that if you would be willing to read some of my comments over the last year , that there has been a few that not everyone has agreed with me on . In fact , when I started posting on here , someone and I had a dispute of almost the same magnitude on here about a similar matter where my opinion was more or less one sided and “I” was the one in your shoes right now who was getting picked on . I have told you many of times already that I have been where you are at and the best thing to do is to come to a post like this with more of an open mind and a friendlier attitude and to expect to be picked on if your opinion is a little off-based . The reason I know is because I have been through it already .
Again??
I’m not you kid. I can think for myself you child and off based? How much more off than you?
↑
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude
by CMassey on Jan 18, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm throwing a fit???
I don’t care what you think is or isn’t sincere believe what you want. As far as “whining” what should I do when someone insults my family?? Do you have ANYONE in your life you remotely care about?? Put the shoe on the other foot asshole
How exactly can “Does your Dad let you flip the burgers?” be construed as an insult to your family? It can be construed as an insult to you I suppose, even though you have no idea what it means, but it has nothing to do with your family. Stop being overdramatic.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Ok is your mother working the corner??
You really shouldn’t have her working the street like that. Don’t tell me what I think is or isn’t meant to be insulting. The context of your odd joke was meant to insult. If not than tell me what it was meant for by all means?
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Holy cow
You’re incredibly overreacting to the point of trollish behavior. As I’ve told a number of new folks, take the time to read the forum before going gung-ho. A previous person who claimed to be a teen and argued his point, right or wrong, into the ground happened to use that phrase. Check out the signature line of a number of folks (including mine) to see his quotes. You’ll see his quote in justincredubil02’s signature line, if I’m not mistaken. It’s a joke among the entire board. I laughed hard when I saw it because of the context. You take it as an insult, which it wasn’t at all. There’s been posts of the memes of this board that you could look up in the archives to understand where some of the phrases come from.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 18, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Like.....
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
So since its a joke
I’m supposed to think its funny?? Because I thought I was having a baseball discussion not anything to do with ones personal life. If you don’t see the issue with that insult than your full of it. I don’t get your joke I didn’t come here for a joke I didn’t joke to anyone else. It was said as a fucking insult but you keep playing stupid as if it appropriate behavior
Funny, because you’re the one that brought your personal life into it.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 19, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions
I have many, many people in my life that I care about more than remotely…so what would I do??
I would not use them as a crutch in an argument I’m losing that’s not about them in the first place. I’m a man, I don’t need to resort to petty pity tactics when people voice their opinions that I’m a tool. And, if I’m being a tool, I’d stop being a tool.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
"not about them in the first place"
So why than was my father brought into the discussion of JJ since its not about him??
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Because you’re a moron.
Can we just ban this guy already?? Has he added anything to any discussion thus far??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Ban me?
Does that make you guys feel like you have some power on an Internet site?? I don’t participate in your commenting for the last few yrs never have. I said one thing regarding JJ and I have to answer to everything and everyone Over and over again. But go ahead and ban me I’m sure the sbnation people would love to know what’s been said I didn’t resort to “jokes” you’d did.
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
If you’re not being a productive member of the site at any time, and yet flaming and trolling consistently, why should you be allowed to stay??
You’re like a father (not your father) that shows up to Little League games to get drunk, berate the umps, and generally cause a scene, ruining the event for everyone.
As an umpire, I kicked lots of fathers (not your father) out of Little League games because of this. I didn’t feel one bit bad about doing it, because they were an embarrassment to everyone at the game. The game was better as a result of their dismissal.
Do you see the parallels??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
So because I disagree I'm not "being productive"
Before this thread my only comments were compliments to the guy who does the minor league stuff or other pieces I like. So no I’m not disruptive just because I have a different opinion. I get your trying to support your tight knit group but look from the start unbiased and see who really caused this to drag out like it has.
I’m not talking about your opinion, I’m talking about the eleventy billion posts following it like this one.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I stopped when I saw it was going nowhere
Brave dude brought it back up 2 days later when NOTHING was said. I shouldn’t respond to someone challenging my opinion as if its ungodly wrong?
I brought it back up
because I saw something worth debating about . I was never trying to pick on you . The whole conversation was about JJ’s trade value and wether or not a Nelson Cruz like player would be worth a JJ straight up and somehow it got into how Wren does business . It kept going because you were arguing points that I had argued at the start of this offseason . I knew exactly where you were coming . And the responses I gave you were the same I got when I used the arguements from your side of your opinion (JJ being young , an AS , injury being non shoulder and arm related) .
It was about Chopmaster
Chopmaster was a young kid that has been banned for being extremely argumentative and something of a pain in the ass. He posted once that his Mom taught him to make Sloppy Joes and his Dad let him flip burgers on the grill.
I have no clue how old you are, but you argue like Chopmaster, you seem to feel your opinion is the end of a discussion.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
eerie how we both posted such similar comments simultaneously.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
My opinion is he end of discussion??
I explained MY opinion every way I was asked too. Just because I disagree that gives the right to start a childish game?? And I dont know what a “chop aster” is and really don’t care but I suppose you just aren’t allowed to disagree. Don’t sweat it big guy once the season starts and you all keep my name out of your “joking” I’ll go right back to ignoring the comments section of this blog. I really doubt any of you have played at even a college level based on how you talk about ball
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Because you’re being so overdramatic, you’re name is much more likely to show up in future jokes, ala Chopmaster. Congratulations, you memed yourself.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Over dramatic huh?
So I’m exposing what I think will happen with JJ. I get ambushed by the stat geeks so I continue to explain not knowing any of you people. Than you resort to insulting my father and you really see nothing wrong with that? The man died from a drunk driver not even a year ago and Im supposed to be ok with you people mocking him? Did you not have a father take you to your games practices cages almost every night. Travel no matter how far we were going so yea call me “over dramatic” than. To me your just a disgrace to not see how wrong that is
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Again, the insult was directed at you, not your father. No one insulted your father.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
So you use my father to insult me?
You really don’t see how fucking wrong that is?? I said nothing personal to any of you why do I not get the same respect??
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
No, he didn’t use your father. He used the abstract concept of fatherhood in order to point out that you’re acting like a friggin’ child.
If your father had left your family at the age of two, would he have been insulting your father?? No.
If your father was still alive and kicking, would he have been insulting your father?? No.
If you weren’t a moron, would he have been insulting your father?? No.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
That's a lot of "ifs"
And all of them are not the case so yea it’s an insult. As far as me being a “moron” because I disagree with you and explained why I disagree which is no more right or wrong than your opinion? Please explain how that makes me a moron but not you?
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Whether or not carp insulted your father is NOT an opinion. He did not insult your father.
Your inability to understand how and why your father was not insulted DOES make you a moron.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
My point is whether he meant it or not
IT’S A FUCKING BASEBALL BLOG. He DID say it as an insult whether toward me or my father it doesn’t make it right.
With your behavior…at this point, the only right thing to do IS to insult you. You’ve managed to derail the point of this thread entirely.
Congratulations, you’re an asshole.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love how unbiased you are
Considering there was another commenter dragging it out as much as humanely possible. Call me stubborn hard headed whatever you want but I won’t just sit there while I’m being disrespected and attacked by some fools on the internet
I so want to sig that, but alas…..
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
"you memed yourself"
That might be the biggest truth to ever come out of a Rosterbation thread
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Please tell us all about your extensive baseball background and how it relates to Major League Baseball.
Then I’ll point out that Hall of Famer Joe Morgan is perhaps the worst baseball analyst that you can find, and how your “extensive background” is fairly useless in actual baseball analysis.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention Chipper still only looks at BS for his player evaluations.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
BA*
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Never mind all of the baseball GM’s with no playing experience whatsoever.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Theo Epstein has a sick cutter, I heard.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Its not about knowledge of the pro game
It’s about the team dimension and knowing what it’s like to truly play for your teammates and fight for one another when the stakes are the highest. That’s what I’m sensing you don’t grasp
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because teamwork hasn’t been drilled into the head of every child in America from the age of 4 to adulthood and beyond. It’s such a foreign concept to most people.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
There's hearing it as a 4 yr old
Than there’s being 20-21 in semi-final games and actually knowing what it is being in the moment. It’s not just teamwork either its actually stepping to the plate with game on the line and you can make something happen. It’s an addreniline you won’t know unless your there that’s all
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s all a bunch of bullshit.
Sorry that someone at some point made you believe that you couldn’t do something and that you were foolish enough to believe that and thus had to “rely upon others” for your success.
Hogwash.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jan 18, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Rely upon others???
I made myself who I am. I stopped playing when my now wife was pregnant and I went and got my degree and took care of my family. Your statement makes no sense
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Congrats on the wife and family. Doesn’t mean you’re entire dialogue throughout this thread is not fucking stupid.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I'm a moron.
Your*
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Seeing how you've been caught hook, line and sinker
I agree with that title.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Ok I'll say it again
My comments were ALWAYS in response to someone disagreeing so I explained. Why the first time wasn’t enough for him ask him not me
At some point you should realize that no one wants to fucking read what you type and shut the fuck up.
Which is what I’m going to do now, because you’re fucking hopeless.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Self-ban...
One day, with a potential for two if you continue to type.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
look dude
I never really actually post but I’ve lurked forever, as someone else whose dad has died. I think you are being incredibly immature about this whole thing. No one insulted your family, or your dad in the slightest, especially when they don’t know.
My mom has passed away as well but I don’t irrationally freak out every time I hear a yo momma joke even if it’s directed at me. Chill out!
Well you taking fun in your parents death as being a joke
Amongst people you don’t know nor care to share your life with. That’s you than, I don’t find it funny in the slightest it’s immature disrespectful and not ok with me. But that’s your choice
No he doesn't .
There is no need to keep trying . There is no need for his negativity either when you were clearly making a joke .
After reading trough this entire thread, I really wish someone would teach you the difference between too and to.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 16, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Alfonso Soriano at $2-3m per year?
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/alfonso-sorianos-platoon-value/
If the Cubs ate $15m of his remaining $18m per, I’d definitely be interested. Maybe we could steal him for Matt Diaz as they want to shed salary, maybe throw in a young relief arm. Maybe JJ and Diaz for Soriano and a prospect or two.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
wRC+ of 84, 113, and 99 the last 3 years. Diaz is 137, 96, 73. Not a huge difference, and definitely not worth giving up Jurrjens for.
Depends on the prospect/s
Brett Jackson, Josh Vitters, among others.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
..they’re not giving up top prospects and $15MM for Jurrjens and Diaz. The Cubs are clearly rebuilding. We are not a match.
They could use a P, hence Jurrjens...
you get two years of him with your doctors, seeing if he’s worth a long term spot. And we could throw in a prospect on our side to even the long term aspect out. Plus, that depends on how willing they are to unload Soriano.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
They have a full rotation already. Why would they trade a prospect who may be a key member of their future for a player who is a Scott Boras client, oft injured, and only has 2 years of team control left? They’re lucky if they’re a .500 team in 2013.
You’re only looking at this from a Braves perspective. “What do other teams have that I want?”
JJ is better than anyone projected for their rotation
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
They are not competing in 2012 and will likely not compete in 2013 either. If Jurrjens is better than anyone in their projected rotation (which is entirely debatable), that’s irrelevant. No sane club trades top prospects for short-term gains on a team that is not expected to compete short-term.
Name a single starter better, since it's "debatable".
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Garza and Ryan Dempster.
Even if Jurrjens were unquestionable the best pitcher to go to their rotation, why would they trade top prospects for him knowing that he’s unlikely to be part of their next contending team?
This just isn’t how teams operate. It’s just how fans wish their opponents operated. “Give us what we want, without us needing to give up anything you want.”
Both worse
and the idea, as said, was that he’s young enough to be a part of their next contending team. They’d have two years to evaluate him and his injury to be sure they want him as part, and in the meantime get a very effective young arm. And from reading their article, they want to get rid of Soriano, plain and simple. They’d dump him for the cash relief only, and adding JJ would be more than Soriano’s worth hence the prospect.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
They are not trading their #1 prospect in a salary dump for an injured Scott Boras client with 2 years of team control left. Please try to think about this idea as if you were a Cubs fan, and not just a Braves fan.
Depends on how highly rated those prospects are
and Vitters isn’t there #1, not even close.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
…in which case we’d be giving up a ~2 WAR starter for a replacement-level left fielder and a bust prospect. I guess that’s more fair.
In your scenario, I assume the Cubs would be picking up his salary from 2012-2014? Meaning they’re actually paying him $27MM to play for us? I don’t see how that really helps either team.
Must be fun to be you
it sucks from our side. It sucks from there side. Bravo.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jan 16, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Forgive me if I don’t apologize for reality being less interesting than you would like it to be. Unfortunately, other teams aren’t likely to turn into our own farm clubs and sacrifice their interests for our own.
Point was, they're willing to unload Soriano eating a significant portion of his salary
at less than $5m per, his bat is still worth it imo.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
OK. That’s a more reasonable point. We would be paying him less than $5M per for 3 more years. His bat has been below average two of the last three years, and he will be 36 this year.
If we a) did not already have a spot committed to Diaz and b) were only for one year (not three), I could see it being a worthwhile risk.
But to have a 36~38 year old Soriano hogging up money and roster space seems like a huge waste.
that's like saying my mom's the skinniest at the fat person camp
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 16, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
That could be the most awful thing I have seen posted on this blog...
You can see her belly from the bottom of the dress….
I have seen
a photo of a 450 LB. black woman in a thong with her but to the camera that was awfully juicy as well . If the title didn’t mention a ‘thong’ , you would have never noticed that she had one on .
Well, now you’re just encouraging him to do it…
by Ivan the Great on Jan 18, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
why you dissin my mom like that
:-)
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Actually it was a product deal. The A’s got Jergens and Prada. Apparently FW’s telephone is on the fritz.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
The Outman Method is nuts. The kid had to change his pitching mechanics or he wouldn’t have been drafted by any MLB team, despite his effectiveness in amateur ball.
http://www.outmanmethodology.com/search/label/H-Video-Clips%20of%20Josh%20and%20Zach%20Outman
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yea but his name is Josh Outman, which is pretty awesome.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Really?
They’re good young pitchers. Very solid arms. Both would make the Braves’ roster, even with all the pitching talent the Braves have. The Rox did alright in this deal.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 17, 2012 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
I pay very little attention to the AL or the West Coast. Oakland pitchers are a mystery to me. I know they had a good staff early last season, beyond that, foggy brain syndrome.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Okay :p
The A’s have had a lot of guys who are probably about a touch below our “four horsemen” in talent recently, and they’re mostly a year or two ahead of our boys, so they’re producing at some level in the majors. It’s been a good pitching system for a while, but they haven’t had a stud come out for a number of years.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jan 17, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
I’m guessing no, simply because he doesn’t play CF and that’s the empty bench spot at the moment. Outside of that argument, he’s essentially produced at replacement level offensively with bad defense to bring him below replacement level. I don’t see the reason to snag him.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
He has some potential, so a minor league deal wouldn’t hurt, but I wouldn’t be sad if we didn’t sign him.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Today's word of the day is "PhillyBrave"
Defintion=to be filled with rage to the point where ones opinion becomes realistic instead of logic and anything opposing that opinion wears a target in danger of rage and blasphemy .
Can you use todays word of the day in a sentence ?
signed P.O.S. :P
Today at work I was phillybraved by a customer because I told him he was too drunk to be served.
Does that work?
Was he phillybraved because he was drunk or was it a part of his personality ?
And yes , according to the definition , it does fit there .
part of his personality
A real douche bag…. His opinion was that he wasn’t drunk and decided to attempt to convince me otherwise by shouting nonsensical statements at me. Luckily our very large polish bouncer agreed with me.
by dcbravesfn on Jan 18, 2012 1:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gotcha .
Yeah , us polish people usually agree more with common sense . It’s weird . I’m German (which is where I get my attitude from) , Irish (where I get my ability to drink large amounts of alchohol from) , Cherokee Indian (I get my love for the outdoors and nature from this part of me) and Polish (this side is where I believe I get my ability to put up with a lot of BS) . Unfortunately , being at a club or bar , you will always see someone classified as a phillybrave . And the more they drink , the more phillybraver they will be . LOL .
Is this really supposed to be some type of comedy??
Wow your some weird people. Have you even sat in a dugout with your team before? Played at any substantial level of ball?? Because the way you base everything off of math equations which are created to judge a player and that’s the ONLY way. Something tells me you never actually played the game. Just an Internet geek playing with numbers. How about getting off the computer and ATLEAST fill the damn stadium for a ball team in striking distance of 1st in the east. But damn that transportation right?
?????
Ok. Now I think u r just a bot because nothing u wrote here makes sense. “Because the way you base everything on math equations…”. I am fairly certain that describing how people act like phillybraves when they drink has nothing math related to it except for their bill at the end of the night.
by dcbravesfn on Jan 18, 2012 3:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Wow your some weird people
you know, it’s sooooooooooo hard to combine “you” and “are”.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 18, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I played baseball and basketball in high school in Dunnellon FL back in the ‘90s . From there , I went on to play baseball at a community college (CFCC) in Ocala FL for a year before my grades , girls , and liquor got in my way . Not that matters , but I also coached on my brothers little league and AS little league team . But I still don’t base my opinions on personal experiences . Players have career years . But their stats from prior seasons are usually a good reference for ho wthat player is going to perform .
And again
Your stats are no different than just guessing. Pick a player get his fangraph or whatever projection you want give me a triple slash line and I’ll guess one see who’s more on the mark??
Last time .
A ‘guess’ is basically a shot in the dark . I could guess that the Braves are going to win the world series next year . But there are a few other teams that might have a better chance than we would . But if I were to just tell someone that just ‘guessing’ was the reason for my prediction , I would get laughed at .
But if I were to base my assumption on the fact that statistically we had one of the best starting rotations in baseball last year and possibly THE best bullpen . Plus the fact that many of our starters had statistically their worst year last year and could only be better this year . And in doing so use those FACTS , not guesses , to base that assumption . That is how you come at someone with a strong case for an arguement .
The Rosterbation thread got PhillyBraved, now we have another week of dealing with 450 posts where 4 or 5 would have sufficed.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
And brave dude had nothing to do with the comment count??
I only answered his questioning of my idea I just had to do so over and over. Than people get personal or attempt to insult me so I fight back like any man would do when being disrespected. Open your fuckin eyes and see what really happened
by PhillyBrave on Jan 18, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
It takes two, no doubt
But the homework assignment was to make a sentence using “PhillyBrave”, not BravesDude.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
hey Philly
you seriously want to get into this with me?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 18, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Rage and blasphemy are you really still talking????
If you go check the start of everything I was simply saying FW doesn’t work like that and I think he’ll get a better return. You had too argue question discount everything I said. Why? Wrens track record of trades IS a logical explanation to my opinion YOU kept it going kid. And a little advice for you, learn to have your own opinion instead of pony-backing on ANYTHING one of these “regulars” states. You talk out of both sides of your mouth and it’s really pathetic
Just because I share an opinion of may on here
does not mean that I am ‘pony-backing’ . If I were to just hold a different opinion to just have a different opinion I would be……..oh wait , ………. I would be you . And unless you work in the Braves FO or are a part of Wren’s family , you have as much of an idea of how Wren works as we do . So your opinion is no greater than ours . I have a new nickname for you seeing how you are so persistent on calling me ‘kid’ when I am probably older than you , “Jit” . Thats what we use to call kids who came into the jail system who started acting like someone who they aren’t , grown men . So welcome to your new nickname “Jit” .
Older than me??
That makes a lot of sense kid. “jail system” lol is that what your mommy tells you prison is called?? Your a joke dude you just made the point that MY opinion was no more likely than yours, so why fight me so hard on it?? And from above as far as my “name” popping up do a little research I’ve posted about 2-3 other times in the las 2 yrs or so like I said I just come for the recaps and minor league info. But damn I better conform to the others if I have an opinion on the only thing happening with the braves to that point
Instead of arguing and insulting you could just post your age and be done with it.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jan 18, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah he could .
My birth date is August 6th 1976 . I don’t know if it is in my profile , but there it is .
I love the smell of drama in the morning
You know one time we had a post PhillyBraved. For twelve hours,and when it was all over, I read through. We didn’t find one of ’em, not one post with content. The smell, you know that whiny kid smell, the whole post… smelled like hamburgers*.
*No insult to actual hamburgers actually cooked by anyone’s actual father is intended by this post. Offer not valid in Idaho and Kansas. Your mileage may vary. Past performance does not guarantee future returns.
Dude your hilarious
That way over explained joke just had me cracking up oh so damn funny. Fucking trailer park trash tell your sister that beej she gave me last night was terrible and she’s not getting her 5$ because she didn’t really do exactly what I wanted her to. Maybe you can give her some lessons since the whole incest thing is alright down there and all
And this officially secures it
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
again
combining “you” and “are” is so #@$%ing hard, isn’t it?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Jan 19, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
In actuall news for the day.... Darvish-watch continues
The Rangers are close to a deal with Darvish, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. He elaborates that the Rangers and Darvish “are still working on details, but they are making good progress” with four hours remaining until the deadline. The deal will get done, according to Jon Heyman’s sources.
Darvish’s agreement with the Rangers is expected to be for six years, tweets Jon Heyman of CBS Sports.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I would like to thank PhillyBrave
For helping all of us shake off some of the baseball winter blues by being a total blowhard.
Not only did he do it on a blog currently full of disenfranchised, bored, angsty Braves fans, but he did it in the very thread dealing with the moves (or lack thereof) that have lead to their frustration.
Everyone was able to take their collective “come-on-wren-make-a-move!” frustration and release it towards a common goal.
If anything, I think PhillyBrave’s presence has been therapeutic and provided a lot of catharsis around here, and for that I thank him.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
by ATLandUNC on Jan 18, 2012 6:23 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
After reading all his comments..
PhillyBrave is exactly this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2RJqYu5HN8#t=1m26s
I think we should go after Nelson Cruz.
He seems like a perfect fit for us.
This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn.
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