Why Jack Wilson should start this series in St Louis...
by CaptainLou02 on Sep 8, 2011 10:52 PM EDT
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Hello Braves fans, fellow talking chopper here, from Seneca Falls,NY . I never get to get on to talk with you all because of my work schedule, but I have been watching the game tonight and I felt I had to post.
As many of you have been commenting on Alex Gonzalez and his lack of hitting for the better part of the second half, I for one, could not agree with you more. Many have seen the struggles Heyward has had this season and when Constanza came up, Freddi decided to play the hot hand and give Heyward time to "figure it out." Well why not do the same for Alex. Obviously his head is so far up his butt right now when it comes to his approach at the plate that it is just ridiculous to watch. Then we look at Jack Wilson, a guy that has played in the majors for over a decade, never played in the postseason and immediately comes in tonight and shows more hustle and a will to play that Alex seems to be lacking right now.
Now I am not saying to immediately count Alex out. He has postseason experience and lets face it, his glove is sick. He also has been known to go on a hot streak, (hopefully this post season...) and can be a big part of this team. I just think for right now, knowing how important games are right now to win until that magic number is ZERO, I hope fredi decides to go with the hot hand.
Jack comes into the game, plays the game right, hustle and acts like he wants to be there. Alex obviously is on another planet right now and I believe giving him a few days off if not more and playing the hot hand would really benefit this team. Let Alex get his head back on straight and be ready for the postseason.
Go ahead and comment all you want, I want to hear all you have to say......
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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I think the production would be fairly equal so it really doesn’t matter
CarrotTop4: Who exactly said Tim Tebow couldn't win the Heisman??
AlabamaJammer: dunno. I don't care. He's in the pros now.
And we have crocodile tears to prove it.
by SouthAlaBamaRampage on Sep 8, 2011 11:20 PM EDT reply actions
I completely agree with you
Alex seemed a little frustrated and out of it tonight. Jack Wilson looked terrific. That play up the middle was so sick that it stunned both teams to the extent that no one moved….that just stood and stared. Absolutely unbelievable….
Jack seemed to want it bad out there….
Lets give him a chance and see what he’s got….
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
I missed the games yesterday.
Anybody with a video link to the play he’s talking about above?
To Hell With Georgia!
here it is...although you might need an MLBtv account
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18986711&topic_id=9782246&c_id=mlb
it was also huge at the time because it was a close game and they had a man on 3rd….
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
Why Jack Wilson Should Start
Because he’s not Alex Gonzalez.
/Thread.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
this argument assumes that Alex Gonzalez is the worst possible option available at SS. As you and I have discussed ad nauseum, this is simply not true. It is completely possible to find a worse player than Alex Gonzalez. And I would suggest that Jack Wilson can fill those shoes (i.e. he would be worse than Jack Wilson)
Jack Wilson wOBA is 260, Gonzalez’s is 264 (now i realize both those numbers are awful, but still). Also as is often the case, Alex is a superior defender and its not really close.
Spot starting Wilson isn’t a bad idea to get Gonzalez some rest and maybe get him back on a solid track. But he should not be considered an improvement over Gonzalez.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
But he’s not Gonzalez, so he should play.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I guarantee you I would walk more. Mainly because I would never swing. :D
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I guarantee you wouldn't
mainly because they could throw you strikes without fear and would attack you worse than a poor hitting pitcher.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Sep 10, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But there would be pitchers like Scott Proctor, so there is always a chance.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Proctor would strike you out like he's pitching to a kid
if you think otherwise, you’re delusional. If you think you could hit better than Tommy Hanson, off Scott Proctor or Jojo Reyes or Kenshin Kawakami, you’re deluded.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Someone takes themselves way too seriously.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 11, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
With you
statements like these seem serious.
I guarantee you I would walk more
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I’ve also said that a sack of potatoes would walk more.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 11, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
A sack of potatoes would certainly strike out on balls in the opposing batter’s box less often.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 11, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson should probably get a couple games a week
Just to see what he can do. Alex looks completely lost at the plate and I’ve taken up the habit of calling him a rally killer. When he comes up with a guy on first, I just assume a double play is coming……really just have no hope with him at the plate and just beg for him to strike out instead of hitting into the DP. Alex is terrific with the glove and I’m sure the pitchers love having his defense behind them but Jack has a nice glove and isn’t that much worse than Alex….especially if he can hit a little bit or at least make productive outs. When is the last time Alex has even made a productive out? I still think Alex should start the majority of the games just because of his stellar defense but Wilson should be given a shot to see if he can pump a little bit of offense into the number 7 or 8 spot. I think it would be good to see which guy plays better for the rest of the season to see which guy the Braves want to try and sign to a one year deal for next season.
The Braves would be really good
If we got Jose Reyes
"SABERMETRIC ANALYSIS CONFIRMS "WIN" OUTCOME PROBABILITY CAN INCREASE VIA GRITTY DIRTFRONT JERSEY HUSTLEPOINTS" -CyborgHansonTommy
And Carlos Gonzalez.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
And Roy Halladay. And Albert Pujols. And …
by crimsonqueen9 on Sep 9, 2011 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
SMH
You forgot Matt Kemp!!
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Sep 9, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't exactly an all or nothing option.
I like Bourn, but CarGo would be nicer.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
I still wouldn't want CarGo
Not a big fan. Can’t tell you why, but I just don’t like something about him on the field.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 9, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t trust him – in other words, I don’t think he’s the real deal. Just my opinion though, not really a lot of data to back it up.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of like you said early on this season
when he was slumping. Now he’s hitting like he did last year.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
His greater body of work shows that he’s not that good though.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 12, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions
What about a career .299/.352/.522 slash line, .376 wOBA, and 127 wRC+ suggests he’s not that good??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Sep 12, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact that most of that comes from his most recent two seasons, and that in each of those his BABIP was larger than what it usually is by a good margin.
I’m not saying he’s terrible. I just don’t think I would list him among the top hitters in the game.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 12, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You realize he didn’t start in his first two seasons, right?? Not that his second season (2.2 WAR in 89 games) was anything to sniff at…if he’d played a full year, that would translate to 4 WAR by rate.
He’s essentially averaged 5.5 WAR/162 games since he’s been in Colorado, or about 5 WAR/season even when accounting for missed games. While not a top five guy, that puts him in the top 15-20.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Like I said, I essentially have no statistical data to back up my doubt of him. It’s just how I feel.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 12, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
At least youre honest. I can respect that.
The ole “eyeball test”
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
Well, that, and the old “Coors Effect”
Away – .266 .319 .426 .744 – 52 HRs
Home – .330 .382 .611 .993 – 24 HRs
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 13, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He has more power away from Coors?
Weird.
The base paths belonged to me, the runner. The rules gave me the right. I always went into a bag full speed, feet first. I had sharp spikes on my shoes. If the baseman stood where he had no business to be and got hurt, that was his fault. -Ty Cobb
Oops. Switcharoo time.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 17, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
considering his lack of hustle on uggla's single tonight
i’d say not so much. i’d prefer someone a little more team oriented and who gives it their all. but that’s me.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
How depressing is it
That our two options at SS are Alex Gonzalez and Jack Wilson…
"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."
Not as depressing as...
…the fact that our SS could have been Yunel Escobar.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions
nor as depressing as
how quickly we forget things.. i know he’s not the most consistent player, but he was very responsible for us avoiding a sweep at home against the dodgers.
of course we can go on and on about the “what if” game. such as: what if furcal’s agent wasn’t a douche and he came back to atlanta? what if we didn’t trade andrus for 6 months of the ever greedy teixeira?
as it stands, we have a dang good record. and love him or hate him, alex has played his part in that.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
by liquidraine on Sep 9, 2011 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The part Alex has played has been the role of the worst hitter on the team – and one of the worst hitters in all of baseball.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
that's a bit of a stretch..
and some would argue he’s not the worst hitter on the team. regardless, yes his average is low. that’s why he’s hitting in the 8 spot. i’m sure you all thought the same about uggla for the first few months, but in doing so lacked the understanding of how a baseball season goes.
and i doubt you spend as much time complaining about his gidp (19) than you do cheering the double plays he turns (75). sometimes you have a guy for his glove, and you suffer through those plate appearances.. and sometimes you get a gem in the AB.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
He's ranked 148th in OPS.
2 spots above Adam Dunn.
So, yes, he is one of the worst hitters in the league. There’s simply no denying that fact.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
narrowed search ftw?
you do realize that the stats you’re viewing exclude players who have been in 90 or so games(basically, less than 100), right? it’s also an assumption that there are only 151 players who pick up a bat. in that regard, sure.. he’s at the bottom.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
This is a weak argument.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
is it?
by bringing in the other half of the league that hits? that’s weak? ok.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
Yes. Alex should be compared to starters, not guys who are backups or who only pinch hit.
However, feel free to include non-qualified guys too, as I’m sure Alex will still be one of the worst.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions
mike napoli, alex rodriguez, reed johnson, chase utley, david wright, lucas duda
derrek lee, marco scutaro, and hanley ramirez. just a few of the players you would rule out. i don’t know about you, but these players don’t seem like the pinch hitting type to me.
miguel tejada, mike moustakas, juan uribe, franklin gutierrez, brandon inge, paul janish, chone figgin, and jeff mathis. another group of players you won’t find under the qualified list, yet are not pinch hitters.. and these guys have a lower OPS than alex. oh, and since the topic of this thread mentions this man, i guess it’s worth mention that jack wilson also has a lower OPS than alex.
i’m not trying to say the guy is a great hitter, i’m simply saying he’s not at the bottom of the list as you would imply. i mean, when the list includes 151 players, that doesn’t strike you as odd? i mean, come on.. 30 teams in baseball, so only 5 hitters per team? and you assume the rest are just pinch hitters/backups? lol..
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
by liquidraine on Sep 10, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Alex is at the bottom of just about every list of hitters in baseball in almost every offensive category.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a stretch at all
and I couldn’t care less about his batting average.
It’s his sub-.260 OBP that makes him terrible. Well, that and his general cluelessness about what home plate and the strike zone are.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What ifs are a bit silly here...
…we got a year of Teixeira and Kotchman and some RP for Andrus and company, and honestly, Andrus isn’t that much better of a hitter than what we have, he just steals bases.
Alex is Alex, and he is having a typical year for him. His approach isn’t screwed up, it is his usual approach, which is bad. He’s a good field, no hit SS with occasional power, just like he has always been. Wilson is a good field, weak hit SS with no power, which is what he has always been. Use one, use both, does it really matter?
A whole bunch of this.
Replacing Alex with Wilson won’t change anything with the sticks or gloves. They’re really similar players and I wouldn’t mind if Fredi decided to “platoon” them down the stretch so SeaBass is fresh for the playoffs.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
andrus is hitting .276 this year
just throwing that out there.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
This is not a typical year for Alex. This has been a terrible year, even by Alex Gonzalez’ standards – that’s how terrible he has been!
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
He leads all SS in Defensive Runs saved!
by another simpsons avatar on Sep 9, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not complaining about his defense.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
gotta take the good with the bad
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
No I don’t. Not when the bad far outweighs the good.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
obviously you either have a grudge,
or truly believe you’re never wrong. either way, i’ll leave you to whichever it is. just note that everyone on the team is down from their usual numbers. but i guess that’s weak too, cause they’re not alex. and stuff.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
When your usual numbers are far below league average, and you have a down year, it’s worth mentioning.
Alex isn’t having a down year due to BaBIP, or a flaw in his swing, or due to pitchers adjusting to him, or due to battling through nagging injuries, or due to trying to live up to a massive new contract.
He’s having a bad year, because he sucks at hitting. He has a career OBP of .294, and this year, that has plummeted to sub .260.
He has a terrible approach at the plate and has for his whole career.
I’m not dogging on Alex because of his down year. I’m dogging on him because he’s a terrible hitter, and those of us who cared to pay attention to things besides his ZOMG DINGERZ knew this was coming.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
people cheer for him because he has pop?
ok. while it’s nice to have a little pop from time to time, i don’t expect him to hit many. he had 23 last year, right? career high i believe. all i care about is his defense. which you seem to think isn’t as good as his hitting is bad. i guess that’s where you’ll reside in thought.
could we have a better ss? by all means. the difference right now is that i’m not crying like a little girl because of how alex is playing. i know he’s about our only option, so i deal with it and cheer on his defense and occasionally (sometimes timely) hitting.
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
by liquidraine on Sep 10, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you are crying like a little girl because I am saying how terrible of a hitter Alex is.
Alex is far from our only option at SS. He’s one of 3 options that we had going into the callup deadline, and he’s one of 2 options that we have right now.
You seem to think that it upsets me when Alex gets a hit.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
did you really just
pull out a “NO U!”? lawl.. guess i should’ve seen that coming. you provide little else outside of personal opinion, so there’s no use going on. just know that the guy you hate so much just won today’s game for us, and kept us in it monday night until he was taken out (for one of our so called “better options” who, by the way, has worse numbers than alex.)
Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory. - George S. Patton
Coming into the series in Florida, Jack Wilson had better offensive numbers across the board than Alex, save for power.
If you want stats, you don’t need me to provide them for you. You can go to Fangraphs or baseballreference.com and look for yourself.
Over the last 5 years, Alex Gonzalez has been worth 7.1 WAR – that’s good for 4th to last in baseball for SS.
He is currently the 4th worst in the Majors in 2011, and in player-worth offensive categories, only Yuniesky Betancourt ranks lower.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 14, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I try to. I really do. But every time I look at the lineup and see #2 in there, I can’t.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t change the fact that this lineup would be better with Yunel than Gonzalez, and with really little loss of defense. Add in Alex’s lack of drive recently, and the Braves made a significant downgrade for nothing.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Does no one remember Yunel’s time in Atlanta? I thought it was pretty clear that he had to go. Yipee for him that he decided to pull his childish head of his ass in Toronto, but that doesn’t change that fact that he definitely needed a change of scenery.
It’s also worth noting that Pastornicky – most likely the Braves future SS – was acquired in that deal.
.291 .368 .403 .771
Yes. I do remember his time in Atlanta.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Aside from his last year with the Braves, his production was good. I’m talking about the incident after incident of childish behavior, sulking, disinterest in the game in which he was playing, etc. All this has been thoroughly discussed though. You must just be a huge Yunel fan.
I am a fan of good baseball players, yes.
Let me ask you this – why does Alex get a free pass for his terrible attitude and his lack of hustle? When was the last time you saw him run out a ground ball (I know you may have to think hard, since he rarely makes contact to begin with).
Why does Alex get a free pass every time he strikes out and screams at the umpire? Or when he doesn’t get the out called at 2nd, and throws a mini temper tantrum?
Why could we not put up with Yunel doing those things, but we can allow Alex to do them – while at the same time being the 4th least valuable shortstop in baseball?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh, those are reasonable questions, I guess, but I just don’t see A-Gon making the same mental mistakes as Yunel. I do think his tantrums & not running out the groundballs have been noticed though. Believe me, I’m as completely sick of Gonzales as everyone else is, but the “attitude” issue is not even comparable.
I’d rather have a SS get pissed at the official scorer than a SS who doesn’t run out a ground ball.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 11, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, in Yunel’s bad 2 months with Atlanta, he still had a higher batting average than Alex currently does, by nearly 50 points, and his OBP was more than 70 points higher.
Those are significant differences – and just think – those were the numbers that got Yunel run out of town!
We didn’t know how good we had it!!!
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 10, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, Pastornicky, by all accounts, does not have the arm to play SS at the major league level.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
those same accountants said Freeman lacked power
and Prado was utility at best.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
No, I’m not sure they did. Besides, arm strength isn’t really something that is subjective while power potential and the ability to stick at a given position are.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't power potential with Freeman
he was showing actual power in AAA last year, and you still had a bunch of the “scouts” like Law, Sickels, etc claiming he was a 20-25 HR max guy. He’s that as a rookie, and it showed last year when he was among the leaders in slugging but they wouldn’t admit it. Sometimes guys just get a reputation and they won’t budge. Pastornicky may or may not have a weak arm. But just cause a bunch of scouts say so, the same scouts who have gotten a lot of stuff wrong, doesn’t make it so. If he’s a “utility” at best guy just like Prado, I’ll be happy with him starting at SS. We won’t know until he gets here, and as of know, he looks pretty damn good.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
For the record, I’d be thrilled to death if he was our starting SS next year.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think next year is up in the air
with the big question being what type of return we get for the inevitable trade of starting pitching, be it Lowe with us eating $5-8m, or Jurrjens, Hanson, or one of the other young arms. At worst, I see us going with Pastornicky battling a cheap veteran (Renteria, Sea Bass, maybe Furcal or Scutaro, among others) for starting SS with the loser and Conrad being our backup IF.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I wonder what the odds of Wilson being retained as the backup IF are.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on whether his complete inability to hit recently has tanked his value on the open market. If inertia makes him get anything anywhere near the $5 mil he’s getting this year, no way.
$1 mil is the most I’m guessing they’ll pay, and that’s if they find bargains elsewhere in the offseason.
by Ivan the Great on Sep 9, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d rather spend $1mil and get Wilson then $2mil for A-Gon. I don’t think there’s much of a difference.
Personally, I’d rather go after Brendon Ryan.
No matter what, Pastornicky deserve a shot to see if he can be a shortstop at least some of the time. (I suspect he ends up at 2B though)
yay someone else is ont eh Brendan Ryan bandwagon….i would love his stellar defense and 330 OBP. and of course his legendary mustache
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
I'd guess it depends on how cheap they could get
Sea Bass, Scutaro, Renteria, etc. I don’t think they’d consider him a starting caliber SS, and that would probably limit his chances unless they are much higher on Pastornicky than we’d expect.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
One final though on "his time in Atlanta"
.238 .334 .284 .618 – that was Yunel in Atlanta in 2010 – when he was “soooo bad, we had to trade him!”
.232 .270 .356 .626 – this is Alex Gonzalez ever since.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're missing the fact that it wasn't just his poor performance.
He was a poor sport, prone to mental-error, show-offy and flamboyant, and was disliked by the rest of the team (not to mention Bobby). That’s why he was traded; he wasn’t the type of player the Braves organization wants playing for them, his hitting in 2010 was an just excuse used to justify the trade in an on-field context.
Which was absolutely the wrong decision.
I get the whole “good teammate” part, but you know what? This is a business, and hitters should be expected to contribute at the plate. Yunel did not do much of that last year, but I think we can agree that was more of an aberration than a norm. Furthermore, if having a poor attitude is so disastrous in an MLB clubhouse, then how did Jeff Kent maintain a job for so long?
He put up numbers. Giving up on Yunel because of a dislike was a decision based on emotion, not logic.
"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton
Who would you rather have on your team from a personality vs performance standpoint?
Ty Cobb
Jeff Kent
Yunel Escobar
Lenny Dykstra
Obviously Ty Cobb was one of the greatest to every play the game. He was also one of the most horrendous people to ever step into a dugout.
I think Yunel perhaps has the better performance to petulance ratio. I watched him for a couple seasons…I do not remember him being that bad from a personal standpoint.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
Alex Gonzalez is also a poor sport – he rarely runs out a ground ball, and he always throws a temper tantrum when he strikes out.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He definitely deserves to start tonight- let A-Gon sit for a little bit.
BTW there are worse SS’s out there then those two, LF/CF last year were much bigger black holes then SS this year.
Yeah, at least both of them are defensive experts.
by another simpsons avatar on Sep 9, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Defense is overrated. AGON has cost us more runs with his bat than saved with his glove
Shrimp, Steak, Liquor, and Pasta
.
I think they’re roughly the same in the defense dept, so why not give Wilson a shot? At this point, the SS job should be his to lose. Gonzales looks like he wouldn’t even be able to hit AAA pitching if he were in Gwinnett….just awful.
We know what Jack Wilson is.
Good defense, decent batting average, no walks, no power. AGonz is good defense, low batting average, no walks, moderate power. Which one is better? Ah, about the same.
Not promoting A-Gon, but he is hitting what like .350 with runners in scoring position and less than 2 outs
Also, he is hitting like .200 when its runners in scoring position and 2 outs, so basically his struggles are just everyone else’s fault for not putting Alex in the proper batting scenerio.
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
By the way Jack Wilson
should be an idol to all of those, who really get the most out of their talent!!. The man literally and physically has no tools whatsoever, yet with nothing short of hard-work and dedication he has stayed in the Bigs for 12 years! Now, that’s a role model
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
And a productive 12 years at that, not some 25th roster spot every year guy either
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
by chicagobullies on Sep 9, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryan Theriot
Yuniesky Betancourt
Orlando Cabrera
Those are the 3 SS in all of baseball who have been worse overall than Alex Gonzalez.
The fact that Alex is one of the best defensive SS in the game only magnifies how bad he’s been offensively. He has 0.7 WAR on the season, despite having some of the best defensive WAR.
He has the 2nd worst wOBA, behind only Orlando Cabrera, the 2nd worst wRC+, again behind only Cabrera.
ABA – Anyone But Alex
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 2:02 PM EDT reply actions
ABA – Anyone But Alex
I think that is a bit extreme given that he hits 10+hrs a year to go with some of best defense in MLB. I would take Alex over a lot of SS in the league, but if we can find someone with almost his defensive prowess but more offensive production I will take it…..Jack Wilson hasn’t looked bad thus far, but I need to see more of him to form a concrete opinion. I still hate the Yunel-for-Alex trade because, antics or not, he was just as good defensively and way better offensively, 2010 was an aberration and Yunel is still young. That was a stupid personal move from Bobby.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
ABA simply implies that it’s time for a change.
And as referenced above, it would be harder to find a SS worse than Alex than a better one, based on this year’s numbers.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 9, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
granted
apparently
Proud perpetrator of yelling "Money MIke" at Oracle Arena since Dunleavy's trade to the Pacers.
Fredi, we wanted Jack to start, not to hit 2nd.
Sheesh.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 11, 2011 3:11 PM EDT reply actions
Indeed he is…I just want to see it for more than 2 games.
6 hits in 2 games is quite amazing though – especially for him!
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 14, 2011 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
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