Who's to Blame?
Going into the season I thought the Braves improved their lineup and starting rotation with the addition of Uggla over Melky, and Heyward's further maturation and Freeman over Glaus. Couple that with the Beachy/Minor combo replacing Kawakami and I thought the team would have an even better record and even give the Phillies a run for their money. The Braves were on a 96 win pace just a few weeks ago. It took some apocalyptic weeks to ruin everything to have a worse record than last year's team and completely miss the playoffs. Who's to blame?
1. Larry Parrish
In 2010 the Braves were 1st in the NL in OBP. In 2011 the Braves finished 14th. 14th! I really thought that was a joke when I first heard that. How could everyone drastically underperform seemingly all season? You can't put all the blame on the esteemed hitting coach, but there the numbers speak for themselves. The mantra of "aggressiveness" from Spring Training on did a lot of great work didn't it? It's pretty clear that in addition to a backwards strategy of hacking that most players failed to make adjustments all season long. The collapse surely was a product of poor offensive numbers in September, but the fact is the team had been under performing all. season. long. It's painfully clear that the results on the field did little to change, adapt, or retool. In an age of endless video and matchup records, Those are things you do when you get poor results time and time again. A major league hitting coach of all people should know that. He doesn't and he never will. His unbelievably bad performance has costed the Atlanta Braves a return trip to the playoffs.
2. Fredi Gonzalez
Where to begin? All the bunting? The shortsighted, incredibly rigid (i.e. stupid) bullpen usage? All the playing time to Schafer? Benching Heyward? Idiotic lineups? I'll just go with everything. Let's not forget all the post game sound interviews that had all the insight of a small child. Very poor in-game tactics costed the Braves some games during the season. It ended up costing the Braves the playoffs. Fredi Jesus González is an oaf of a human being who incapable of worthwhile thought and professionalism, and he deserves to be terminated from his current position
3. Hanson/Jurrjens
Ahem, I wrote this fanpost before the season explaining how important a shutdown power pitcher will be for the Braves. http://www.talkingchop.com/2011/2/18/2000776/whos-the-most-vital-member-of-the-2011-braves Unfortunately, Hanson could not pitch into the last month due to a shoulder issues. Jurrjens, who pitched great in the 1st half, only pitched mediocrely in the 2nd half. For the 2nd season in a row, Jurrjens had nagging injurues that costed him his end of the season. Still, a man of Jurrjen's talents would have been preferred over rookie starters. To give an instance of how depleted the Braves starting pitching staff was, in a pennant race in September, the Braves once started four rookie pitchers in a row. Let's just say I would have preferred if one or both Hanson and Jurrjens stayed healthy.
4. Dan Uggla
There are bad starts and then there are Uggla starts. It's hard not to forget the .179 batting average into July with a declining walk rate. He gloriously came back with a vengeance to not only have the most unlikely 30+ game hitting streak of all time, but also set a career high in homers. Still, the sub replacement performance at the plate the first half and the limited range at 2nd costed the Braves games.
5. Frank Wren
I think he's an excellent GM who made several great moves coming into this season. He put a great team together. I thought that this was the best team on paper since 2003, which was the last time they won 100 games. Sure, he could have shored up the bench better earlier in the season, but there were no glaring mistakes of roster construction. The only truly puzzling move was Scott Proctor signed to a major league contract. I don't really blame Scott Proctor for being terrible in nearly every appearance. Everyone know he's going to suck. I blame the man who signed him and kept him on the team for an idiot to use. Proctor had no business on the roster and his perpetual ineffectiveness costed the BRaves a playoff birth.
Honorable mentions to Jason Heyward and Martin Prado.
Congratulations to the Cardinals for an improbable comeback. However, the Braves were a better team and should have had this locked up a couple weeks ago. All I can say now is that I'm looking forward to re-watching Ken Burn's BASEBALL documentary in the offseason. You should watch it too.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Overused RP & Larry Parrish being incompetent
The kids pitched well, but you can’t go 5 IP every start & not wear your bullpen out.
September/late season injuries
Cost the team a possible World Series berth last season and cost them the postseason this year. You can blame coaches all you want, managers all you want, or even individual players all you want. Simple fact is that we were forced to pitch rookies in their first 3-5 starts of their major league careers in meaningful games of September. Last year it was our lineup that was torn apart, while this year it was pitching. Either way simply decimates your team at a very important part of the year. While record in September is essentially meaningless in postseason success, health of your team has a HUGE correlation to postseason success, and we’ve not had that late in the year two years in a row now.
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
You must not have watched the offense the last couple weeks if you think it was all pitching. The offense was a huge problem all year. The rookies gave them plenty of chances to win but the offense was just beyond terrible. Braves had plenty of talent to win even with the injuries.
Never said that the offense was good or that it was all on pitching
I said the injuries drastically changed our pitching this year, not that the pitching was why we lost. The rookies in general did a nice job, but there’s just something for a lineup about swinging behind a guy like a Tommy Hanson or Jair Jurrjens when they’re going well. Having guys like Delgado, Teheran, and Minor able to run out in the 7-8-9 also would have taken a lot of innings in September off of O’Ventbrel, and that trio obviously wore down in September…well, two of them did. O’Flaherty posted the first full-season sub-1.00 ERA from the pen since Chris Hammond in 2002.
The injuries were the biggest issue on the team with a good portion of the lineup nowhere near 100% as the season wound down.
I’m interested that no one’s brought up Brian McCann becoming the worst hitting catcher in the majors over the last two months of the season, hitting .180/.292/.345. He was the driving force of our offense until Uggla’s hitting streak, and he just disappeared at some point during that streak (and he also was injured and remains nowhere near 100%).
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 29, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Prado was far worse than Heyward.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 29, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Compared to expectations?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Sep 30, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Compared to what they actually did.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 30, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah anyone who has Heyward above Prado can’t understand the massive flaws of BA. Heyward provided better defense and was better at not making outs at the plate. Its that simple.
I think you have the first part backwards.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Oct 1, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Heyward was also expected to provide a lot more and produce a lot more
if you compared expected production to actual production, would Heyward be worse than Prado in that regard?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
How in the world is comparing expectations fair?
If you want to, fine. I expected Heyward to OPS around .900 with about 25-30 HRs this season and around a .380 OBP.
I expected Prado, as a #2 hitter to have an OBP around .360 and a batting average of somewhere in the .310s.
Both fell far short of those expectations.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Oct 2, 2011 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Hanson
I love Hanson, but I’m starting to think that we need to move him. Shoulder injuries are not easy to heal fully from and his “pausing” in his motion will only further aggrevate this. When healthy he will be good, but that might not be often. This saddens me.
The Pirates are not going to trade Andrew McCutchen - please stop suggesting this.
Injuries, the offense. No one showed any real sort of consistency at the plate for the entire season…definitely had good stretches, but it never truly clicked as a whole.
I’m still really proud of the team. They met my expectations, given the amount of inexperience that was on the field.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I predicted 90 wins
The end stunk, true, but this team finished about where I thought they’d be, and the best part is that they return almost all the important pieces for 2012.
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 29, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
We're on the same page.
I think being the media’s trendy pick to win the NL East spoiled everyone else’s expectations.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I don’t remember any media saying we are going to win the East.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 29, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I feel bad for your memory. I can probably go back and find them, but I’d say at least 1-of-3 writers were calling for the Braves to win the East.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Even if that’s true, 1 of 3 does not a “trendy” pick make.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Oct 2, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Injuries
Hanson
JJ
Chipper
McCann
A healthy 4 of them down the stretch and we’re in the playoffs. Going forward, given that Chipper is coming back next year, I suspect he only plays 100-110 games, we use Prado like we did Infante in 2009 – Prado plays 50-60 games at 3rd, he spells Uggla at 2nd for 20 or so games, gets time late in games as PH/sub especially in blowouts to save Chipper some wear. Which means we need an everyday LF.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
I don't think you can say Chipper's to blame...
When we knew he was going to be 80% the whole season, just like next year.
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No Chipper is not to blame, but did we have a plan for that?
If we just had Hanson and JJ healthy for the last month, I bet we make the playoffs.
But to add that to Chipper, McCann, with Heyward and Prado struggles, it makes sense to plan better next year as I suggest for Super-Sub Prado with a new LF.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
I agree with this. I don’t think we can simply assume that Prado moving into 3B when Chipper retires is the best course of action. I agree to bring in a quality LF, and let Prado spell Chipper every 5th day or so…and fill in at LF, 2B, or 1B as needed. If he gets his mojo back, we’ll considering extending him beyond his Arb-2 year in 2012.
I don't get this in this thread any more than the other thread.
Prado is likely to be better than anyone we get to play left; remember he is just as likely to perform like 2009 and 2010 as he is to perform like 2011. We don’t have tons of money to spend and there aren’t any obvious cheap very good left field options available. So why not play Prado every day? He can still sub in everywhere; he just plays left when he isn’t instead of riding the bench. Suggesting we have to wait for Prado to “get his mojo back” after one off season following two good season is just a knee jerk overreaction that will hurt the Braves.
Not trying to make it seem like a knee-jerk reaction. But let’s face it, we will need someone to pickup 40-50 games at 3B next year (Chipper’s ego to play everyday be damned), Uggla played way too many games this year at 2B, and LF will require rest as well. This plan of action still assures Prado get 300-400 PAs or more in 2012, but I don’t feel comfortable slotting his name in as the only LF in our lineup after this season.
Uggla has played this many games every year
No reason to predict anything out of him as far as missed time.
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 29, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I say it because Prado can play 3rd and 2nd (and 1st and LF) and he’s already on the team and opens up an OF spot for bringing in someone. Can we afford that? I don’t know. Is there anyone available within reason? I don’t know. But it seems like an affordable fix.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
Possible fix, yes
Affordable fix, no.
Names on the FA market that could spike some interest:
Carlos Beltran – much too expensive
Michael Cuddyer – likely too expensive, and not a good fielder
Raul Ibanez – aging poorly outside of his hitter-friendly home park
Jason Kubel – no DH in the NL
Ryan Ludwick – No. Next.
Juan Pierre – Much better version of a similar player in Bourn already on board.
Nick Swisher – Likely too expensive, has an option that will likely be picked up
Josh Willingham – Nowhere near enough of an upgrade over Prado
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 29, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly, I think if we upgrade LF it will be because we trade Jurrjens for a LF. None of the FA names interest me enough to play them over Prado, since they aren’t as good or would cost too much. I don’t know if Wren will be able to trade Jurrjens for what he wants or not, but I imagine he will probably try. Can’t hurt to try, that’s for sure.
braves#1
True
But what’s out there that will be available? Quentin’s not an upgrade. He hits for power and disappears for monstrous times of the season offensively and plays poor defense. I would definitely prefer a bat like Prado’s in the Braves lineup over Quentin anyday. That’s the only real name that’s been confirmed available.
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 29, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as we're engaing in the ridiculously hindsighted and useless pastime of assigning blame...
Let’s blame Chipper and Prado for two incredibly key 9th inning errors on routine plays. Prado’s was the one in Colorado that would have gotten EOF out of the inning without having to walk Willingham and face CarGo (still the correct decision). The error by Chipper was in Florida where he lost a GB “in the lights”.
2 games where the proper outcome should have been victories…
Agree to disagree w/ your “still the correct decision.” CarGo’s put up more WAR in a single season that Wigginton has his entire 10-year career.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I blame Bobby Cox
I mean, it’s like he doesn’t even manage games anymore
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
by TurnerTheBurner on Sep 29, 2011 1:52 PM EDT reply actions
Where is Derek Lowe?
The man was 9-17 with an ERA of 5.05.
by romone_braves91 on Sep 29, 2011 2:56 PM EDT reply actions
And a strand rate 10% below league average with a really high BABIP that’s not attributable to his batted ball profile. In other words, bad luck.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
You cannot seriously be defending Derek Lowe…
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Sep 29, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I am really surprised at all the folks who blame "injuries"
Really, Pro sports is all about injuries and what you do to adjust….So I would give Wren high marks for compensating for possible pitching injuries for not trading away the house to get a CF.
He whose words outnumber his deeds, know that his death is better than his life.
I don't know that it's truly "blame"
…as in it’s not scapegoating the injuries as the main reason that games themselves were lost, but the effect of WHO was injured was heavy on the team. The depth there was great, but replacing JJ and Hanson with Delgado, Teheran, Minor, et al was a net loss for the team, and a noticeable one throughout September. Certainly the offense didn’t come through, but the team ended the season with a radically altered pitching staff and that did drastically alter gameplan every game.
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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 30, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Either way, pitching wasn't the problem
we pitched well enough, even with those injuries, to win in September. We didn’t win, and pitching was not the reason why we didn’t, our inability to hit was.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Pitching wasn't innocent, though
September ERAs:
Hudson 3.79
Lowe 8.75
Beachy 5.27
Linebrink 4.32
Kimbrel 4.76
Venters 5.11
Vizcaino 9.45
That last month was not kind to the pitching staff outside of Eric O’ Flaherty.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Sep 30, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

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