Braves Quote For The Day ... Bad Pitching Too Long

by gondeee on Sep 17, 2011 11:32 AM EDT in Braves Quote For The Day

Atlanta Braves pitcher Derek Lowe describes his season perfectly in his comments after last night's game:

"This has been a long year. Probably the worst year I’ve ever had. Right now obviously you feel discouraged and frustrated, all those things. But next time out, you’ve got to find a way to figure it out, because this has been bad pitching too long."

Perhaps he should give back half his salary, or donate half of it to charity, just to reinforce the notion that he has in no way earned the money he's being paid this year. Of all the good moves that Frank Wren and company have made, paying Lowe $15 million a year has not been one of them.

It's easy to say, "cut 'em," or "move 'em to the bullpen," but both of those options are hard if not impossible at this point in the season. We're likely not going to cut Lowe either now or in the off-season, and waste $15 million. The Braves also can't move him to the bullpen right now. With Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurrjens on the disabled list, and the organization apparently trying to limit Julio Teheran's innings, there's just no way to take another starter out of the Braves rotation. Besides, how much confidence would Fredi Gonzalez actually have in Lowe the reliever?

For now we're stuck on suck, unless Lowe can figure something out. I'm not optimistic that will happen. So I'm really hoping that Hanson can make it back in time for the playoffs ... if there indeed are any playoffs for the Braves this season.

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2011 - Derek Lowe	9-15	32	32	0	0	0	0	176.2	200	102	97	12	68	132	4.94	1.52

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Comments

Lowe

The biggest thing is the fact that out of his 102 runs given up, only 5 are unearned meaning his defense has backed him up all season, he just hasn’t given them much support.

by Vanakatherock on Sep 17, 2011 11:34 AM EDT reply actions

That doesn't mean that at all.

There’s a lot more going on defensively that can greatly affect the outcome of an inning than just errors. All one has to do is look at Lowe’s FIP, xFIP, and strand rate and see that it’s pretty apparent that the defense has its fair share of blame in this as well.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Sep 17, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions

I blame Jacob and advanced stats

O swing, Z swing, % strikes, % outside the strike zone. Ever since it became common knowledge that Lowe doesn’t throw strikes, batters have been very patient and taken advantage of him “having to throw a strike”. Jacob never should have written that article.

//end sarcasm

"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first

by bighop on Sep 17, 2011 11:42 AM EDT reply actions

Lowe's starts have become unbearable / unwatchable.... It's a L. We don't score enough runs...

And why does it always seem like Collins “lights a fire” under the Mets before they play the Braves? Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
"Wang, my third at-bat, he threw me a 1-0 fastball that I fouled straight back, and he came back with another heater, which surprised me." - Freddie Freeman
~
Gaby Sanchez - 1, Nyjer Morgan - 0

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Sep 17, 2011 11:53 AM EDT reply actions

Sadly it might be one of his best years as a Brave

by pbrfan on Sep 17, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions

And fuck the Phillies for raping everyone except St Louis. Phuckers.

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Sep 17, 2011 12:01 PM EDT reply actions

I hate to beat a dead horse here.

Atleast we dont have AJ Burnett signed for another year or two for 25 mil. More

by Slinkyjoe on Sep 17, 2011 12:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

What a shocker...

The man can’t even say I….. It is all you….

by LA11 on Sep 17, 2011 12:27 PM EDT reply actions

If he feels that way, then I hope he's got the class to retire

With $15M on the line though, I doubt it.

by theatlfan on Sep 17, 2011 12:47 PM EDT reply actions

In my opinion, the only respectable thing Lowe can do is to retire at the end of the season. At this point he can’t even pitch 2 innings of decent ball. He can’t even be relied upon for the bullpen. Totally & completely useless.

by bloodgimp on Sep 17, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Either that, or we have a Zito/Kawakami-type dude sit on the bench, for only a year mind you… he had some good starts earlier in the year, and it could be like he was signed for another 6 or 7 years or what-have-you. Our next wave of pitchers aren’t making big bucks anyway, so it wouldn’t hurt to have a Delgado, or Teheran there, instead.

Only one more year. So if he doesn’t retire, let’s just say, it could be worse.

by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Sep 17, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

I doubt he'll retire

He’ll have some excuse about wanting to go out on his terms or having something else to prove or some garbage. But with all of the options the Braves have next year, I don’t see how there could be any room in the rotation. I guess I’d rather the Braves waste $15 mil on sitting Lowe rather than $15 mil on him losing games.

by bloodgimp on Sep 17, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

He's not obligated to act in the best interests of the organization.

That’s Frank Wren’s job. Lowe does not have a moral obligation to leave money that is owed to him on the table while he is still able and willing to hold up his end of the bargain. Lowe’s end of the bargain is not, of course, performance, but rather just pitching whenever the team tells him to and he’s physically able to do so.

by SS451 on Sep 18, 2011 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions

I think you could make the argument he does have a moral obligation

to leave money on the table, but not a professional or personal obligation. Morally, I’d feel kind of bad by taking up a roster spot from someone else, while simultaneously hamstringing the franchise and hurting the team with nearly every outing I make. That’s just me. I always felt baseball is a true team sport and if I am hurting the team, I wouldn’t play anymore. He’s a rich dude, he doesn’t need $15 million more (not saying he wouldn’t like to have it, just saying)

by atlbravosfan on Sep 18, 2011 3:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Other than Shawn Kemp

I have a hard time remembering any pro athlete walking away (and not in to retirement) from a contract because they felt vastly overpaid.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Sep 18, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions

So do you read in a corresponding moral obligation on the team's part?

If the Rays sign Evan Longoria to a six-year, $17.5 million contract with three team-friendly options at the end and it turns out he’s one of the best players in baseball, should they feel obligated to give him more money? After all, they’re making a windfall on him hitting his 90th percentile projections, while getting paid like a league average player.

If you say, “Yes, the Rays should feel morally obligated to give him more,” I’ll give you points for consistency, even though I still can’t agree. One of the primary purposes of a contract is to give both parties to the agreement stability and the option to plan their affairs around settled expectations. That’s an important enough objective that I think no one should feel morally obligated to break a contract in their favor unless the favored part obtained it through fraud or perhaps grossly unequal bargaining power that created a situation of felt coercion for the contract partner. (I basically don’t see it as possible for such a power differential to exist between an MLB team and a professional baseball player in today’s league, under today’s CBA.)

by SS451 on Sep 18, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

That last line makes Gondee sound like a forlorn 12 year old that’s witnessed his team lose for the first time. Take your ball and go home.

Make sure you knee-jerk back to the positive as extremely as you just went negative when the Braves pick up a win and the Cards drop a game. I want sunshine beaming out of your ass. Rainbow optional.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Sep 17, 2011 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

But when we clinch there better be a rainbow.

by ducheneaux13 on Sep 17, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

F HIM AND HIS FAMILY!!!

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Sep 17, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions

I have zero confidence in Lowe.

If Hanson is not healthy for the playoffs, I don’t think the Braves have much of a chance with Lowe in the rotation. He is just awful.

by Nabb1 on Sep 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT reply actions

It really sucks....

I’ve watched about every game this year, and I really believe we have the talent to win it all. Now, it just seems like the wheels are falling off of our wagon. Maybe Huddy will get us back on track today. I would like to see our hitters take the first pitch. No one is really on a hot streak, so we need to work the pitchers and get to the bullpen.

by rxadam on Sep 17, 2011 1:57 PM EDT reply actions

Let's step back from the ledge, now fella

if there indeed are any playoffs for the Braves this season.

Lowe is bad but lets not throw the baby (the team that is) out w/the bathwater.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

by adc62 on Sep 17, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions

I don't have insider but check out this article about the Braves' bullpen:

link

Money quote:
bq. Focusing solely on 2011 totals gives the appearance of overwork, but in reality, the Braves are using their bullpen in the normal way it has been deployed for most of the past two decades. Instead, it’s the rest of baseball that is seeing a fairly dramatic shift downward in reliever usage.

by saipol on Sep 17, 2011 2:26 PM EDT reply actions

This coming from the guy who seemed so pleased about the Lowe signing

http://www.talkingchop.com/2009/1/13/719411/derek-lowe-signs-with-the

I enjoyed reading through the comments of that. It provided some real insights into which TC posters actually posses a reasonable understanding of how to build a winning baseball team.

by jerryclore on Sep 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions

So

Do you lurk around on a daily basis, looking for comments and remarks from long-time members that could be construed as contradictory to something they said years ago, just so you can cue your elephant-like memory and dig up and cite old threads and comments to make people look like hypocrites?

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Sep 17, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions

*ahem….

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Sep 17, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't worry justin

I only do that do you when you start to get all overly GIJustin patriotic on us, or to simply remind you of Adam Dunn: Leadoff Hitter

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Sep 17, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions

you really can't start him in the playoffs

Age ends every career at some point.

by stillnotah8er on Sep 17, 2011 3:42 PM EDT reply actions

From CAC a few days back

http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=4892

by duxfan29 on Sep 17, 2011 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

It’s interesting that the comments are closed there.

Lowe has been the worst regular starter in Atlanta, despite his WAR and his FIP.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Sep 17, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions

seems like the comments are always closed

especially on any article that is even borderline controversial… isn’t that why you write those articles? To generate discussion? I just don’t get that website sometimes, so I tend to stay away. I don’t like websites where I have zero ability to interact and voice my opinion. Yay for TC!

by atlbravosfan on Sep 18, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Comments are closed across the site.

It has nothing to do with individual articles, he just decided to close all comments a couple months ago. There’s an explanation in the commenting policy section.

by SS451 on Sep 18, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions

meh

like I said before, I much prefer the analysis and writing on this site, no offense to CAC. I just find some of their points/claims/ideas to be very obtuse and not really in line with reality.

by atlbravosfan on Sep 18, 2011 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Kimbrel is the Hawk!!!!

by Grey Rider on Sep 17, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Kimbrel is the Hawk!!!!

by Grey Rider on Sep 17, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Maybe he needs to skip a start. It worked for him last year.

Twitter: @TAlmeyda

by TonyAlmeyda on Sep 17, 2011 8:46 PM EDT reply actions

Can he skip 3 more?

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Sep 17, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't see why you're mad at Lowe.

Obviously, he’s not earning his salary, but no MLB player gives back money just because they’re not performing. It isn’t done. Contracts represent a calculated risk on the part of both parties, and the Braves took an inappropriate amount of risk on in Lowe’s contract. That doesn’t suddenly become Lowe’s fault now that more hits are falling and his results are skewing worse than his performance.

On a slightly different point, why the palpable sense of anger towards Lowe? Frustration I definitely get, but it’s not as if Lowe is trying to suck. There’s no moral blame in lack of performance (or in this case, lack of results). So long as a guy gives max effort (and I’ve seen nothing to suggest Lowe isn’t), you’ve really got no right to be angry at him, just frustrated and disappointed.

by SS451 on Sep 18, 2011 2:14 AM EDT reply actions

No!

We must feed the fire of blind, personal hate with the kindling of panic and frustration! Tar and feather him! Draw and quarter him! Force him to watch Simon Cowell’s, The X-Factor!

by swainzy on Sep 18, 2011 9:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions