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How Moneyball Has Influenced The Braves Organization

Yes, the Braves have something in common with the Moneyball-era A's. And it's not just Tim Hudson's sinker.

If asked to name organizations that have been most influenced by the so-called Moneyball philosophy, few people would name the Braves. The Braves Way™ is generally seen as being very traditional--almost the opposite of the paradigm-shifting thinking of Billy Beane, Bill James, and their disciples. While the Braves use advanced metrics, they don't advertise that fact, preferring instead to publicly focus on their excellent scouting and player development team*.

But here's the thing: The Braves Way has evolved over the past 5-10 years. The change has been neither sudden nor obvious, but the Braves have adapted their actions in response to the ideas described by Michael Lewis' best-seller. In fact, I'd argue that the Braves organization has fully absorbed the most important observation in Moneyball: that free agency is an inefficient means of acquiring talent.

This idea has had numerous repercussions. Here are just a few:

  • Most obviously, a decrease in the number of major free agent signings by small- and mid-market teams (who can't afford to spend inefficiently).
  • An increasing willingness to trade away top players before they hit free agency (or even late-year arbitration) and become too expensive.
  • A new emphasis on building from within using homegrown, cost-controlled talent and young players acquired in trade (often for the soon-to-be-expensive players mentioned above).
  • An increase in long-term extensions for young players, which allow teams to sign players at sub-free-agency (and often sub-arbitration) rates.

After the jump, I analyze how the Braves have adapted to the post-Moneyball world by both embracing and playing off of these trends.

Star-divide

Before the 2002 season that is chronicled in Moneyball, the A's lost Jason Giambi and Johnny Damon in free agency to the two richest clubs in MLB--the Yankees and Red Sox, respectively. They also lost their closer (Jason Isringhausen) to the Cardinals, not quite a rich club at the time, but certainly richer than the A's.

The A's not only didn't have the money to compete for those players, they didn't particularly want to spend the kind of money that those players ended up getting. In the A's view, major free-agent signings had become too risky for the potential rewards. Basically, in the best-case scenario, a player earns his contract; in the worst-case, the team gets no return on a huge investment. In response, the A's sought alternate, lower-risk means of acquiring talent (at least, lower risk as far as money is concerned).

Focusing on Smaller Free Agents

The simplest adaptation for the A's was to set their sights a little lower in free agency. This required them to make some creative moves, such as the signing of a catcher (Scott Hatteberg) as a budget first baseman to replace Giambi. They also filled out the back end of their bench and bullpen with ultra-low-cost free agents.

The Braves have in recent years adopted a similar strategy as they transitioned from the upper-echelon payrolls of the '90s to more middle-class budgets. Did you know that the last time the Braves signed a hitting free agent to a major multi-year deal was in 2002, when they gave Vinny Castilla a rather ill-considered 2-year, $8 million deal. Even that wasn't a huge commitment.

The Braves did hand out big contracts to Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami in the '08-'09 offseason, but that is looking increasingly like an anomaly. All of the Braves' free-agent deals since then have been either for role players (like Eric Hinske, David Ross, George Sherrill, etc.) or for just one season (Billy Wagner, Troy Glaus, Takashi Saito, etc.). Some of those signings fit both criteria.

The Braves, like the A's, have also been creative. The Glaus addition before the 2010 season mirrors the A's signing of Hatteberg in 2002: a veteran signed for very little money and asked to move from his traditional position to first base to fill in for a departing free agent (in Glaus' case, Adam LaRoche).

In addition, the Braves have made excellent use in recent years of the waiver market (where they found Eric O`Flaherty and Cristhian Martinez) and the minor-league free agent pool (Brooks Conrad and Jose Constanza, among others, were added this way). They even signed Peter Moylan off the Australian WBC roster, which is the very definition of a creative, low-risk move.

Taking On Other Teams' Expensive Players

To fill the gap left by Damon, the 2002 A's moved Terrence Long to center field and traded for ex-Braves slugger David Justice. Justice was due a fairly large salary ($7M), but he was in the last year of his deal and still had some good baseball left in him, so the A's took the risk. It was clearly less risky than giving a multi-year deal to a similarly talented free agent, and all it cost the A's in players was a LOOGY (Mark Guthrie) and a mediocre bullpen prospect (future Brave Tyler Yates).

That sort of "expensive veterans for mid-level prospects and role players" trade has since replaced free agent signings for the Braves and many other teams. Since they have more room in their payroll than the A's, the Braves have been able to make many more of these types of trades, including these major deals from the last 6 years:

All of these trades were motivated by salary. (Others, like the trade for Mark Teixeira, were more talent-for-talent type deals, though it's obviously a gray area, and you might not include the McLouth deal as a salary dump.) The Braves didn't give up any true top prospects, unless you count Dan Meyer, and in return they got some key contributors.

It's appropriate that the Braves acquired one of the key players from the Moneyball A's (Hudson). Billy Beane seems to have been smarting from the free-agency losses of Giambi, Damon, and later Miguel Tejada. He was right to try to get some value out of Hudson rather than just take the draft picks, but as is usually the case with these salary-motivated deals, he didn't get any players back of Hudson's caliber.

In this case, the Braves have not so much embraced the Moneyball strategy as reacted to it. Since they are not a truly poor team, they can afford to take on some highly-paid players and even in some cases grant them big-money extensions. Still, though, this is consistent with the A's strategy in that it enables the Braves to acquire top talent without resorting to free agency. Even the Uggla and Hudson extensions likely saved the Braves millions compared to what they would have had to spend in free agency.

 

Using Homegrown Players... and Locking Them Up

Even with Giambi gone, the top 5 players on the 2002 A's were all homegrown: shortstop Miguel Tejada, 3rd baseman Eric Chavez, and the "Big 3" starting pitchers (Hudson, Barry Zito, and Mark Mulder). Without that homegrown, relatively cheap core of players, the A's could not have competed with the Yankees and other rich teams.

In the years since, the value of young, cost-controlled players--not just prospects, but pre-arbitration players, too--has risen noticeably. Many teams--including the Royals with their heavily Braves-influenced front office--have placed added emphasis on player development. Even some established contenders (like the Braves) have become much less likely to trade away these highly valuable commodities. This past trade deadline, Braves GM Frank Wren refused to deal any of the Braves' top pitching prospects. For a team that was never shy about trading prospects during its run of division titles, this is a notable change in philosophy.

Five of the eight current Braves regulars are products of the Braves' farm system, as are 5 of the 8 starting pitchers the Braves have used and their 2 most important bullpen arms. Many of these homegrown players are just beginning their careers, so they will be extremely cheap for the next few years.

Another baseball-wide reaction to the increasing value of young players has been the spate of extensions for players far away from free agency. The Braves have their own shining example of this trend in Brian McCann's team-friendly contract, which not only prevented the contentious arbitration process but also allowed the Braves to buy out some of McCann's free agency for a relatively cheap price. The McCann deal almost certainly won't be the last of its kind for the Braves, either. With so many talented young players on the roster, you can bet the Braves will try to gain some cost certainty in the future by giving out more such extensions.

Conclusion

The effects of the ideas that were popularized in Moneyball have spread far beyond the Oakland Athletics. Firstly, in the obvious sense that many former A's executives (and similarly minded people) have brought their ideas to other teams. But more importantly, in that these ideas have permeated the culture of the sport to such an extent that it has changed the way that every team does business, even if that team does not fully embrace sabermetrics.

In fact, I'd argue that the A's aren't even a particularly good exemplar of the Moneyball philosophy anymore. Other teams, most notably the Rays, have not just embraced the ideas described in the book, but extended them and found new ways of overcoming the system. Even seemingly traditional teams like the Braves have clearly adapted to the post-Moneyball world by focusing less on free agency and more on timely trades and player development. Indeed, if it were not for this evolution, the Braves would likely be in a far worse position, both in the present and looking toward the future.

* It's important to note that the "scouts vs. stats" debate is spurious and pointless. Every team needs both, and every team has always used both. Moneyball isn't about how stats are so much better at evaluating players than scouts are (though it is often portrayed that way); it's about new ways of thinking about old problems, and the resistance that these new ideas face. One of these new ideas is that statistics can help identify useful players in ways that scouts cannot, but the reverse will always be true as well. Scouts will always be able to find and identify players whose talent outstrips their statistics. They're complementary, not opposing, forces.

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2 points...

1) The Braves are a lot more forward thinking than most of us would like to realize, in relation to Moneyball. Their movement to draft more college players is evident of that.

2) Scouting and GM trades still matter. Billy Beane hasn’t fielded a winning team in a long time. It wasn’t completely the Jamesian philosophy that Alserson first adopted that led to the success. It was having Jason Giambi, Eric Chavez, Huddy, Mulder, and Zito among others that made it a winning team. Trading away CarGo for a Holliday rental wasn’t among the smartest moves…

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 11:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yes, the A’s won with cost controlled players, but they also used advanced metrics to assemble more efficient lineups and retooled their low cost bullpen every year. Small, radical changes like those allowed them to beat their expected win-loss rate and have multiple playoff berths in a tough division. Expecting that organization to still beat the odds is unfair — especially after most teams have updated to their model of young players and less overindulgent free agent signings. There have been moves that haven’t worked out obviously, but Carlos Gonzalez is a player that thrives in Coors but would be hampered in the A’s monstrous park. (His home/away career OPS splits are .993/.744)

by another simpsons avatar on Sep 15, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point was that while its true, their philosophy will always maximize their odds of winning given their small payroll…I’m hard-pressed to name a ton of current high-caliber players since that 2002 draft that the A’s have drafted, maximized their value through their cost-controlled years, and let them go as Free Agents or traded. CarGo, Dan Haren, Rich Harden, Bubba Crosby…and maybe only a few others.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was my big thing with the book, their new draft strategy really hasn’t panned out. They talked all about having a system that would eliminate the huge amount of failure in the draft, yet they still have just as much failure in the draft as anyone else. The reality is, the draft is a crapshoot. Do it however you want, but don’t think your way is inherently better.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 15, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You make a good point.

Statistical analysis can tell us a lot about a player, but the lower down the ladder you get, the less helpful it is. So for amateur players, it’s really not that useful. It can help some on the margins if used judiciously, but you can’t just replace your amateur scouts with stat sheets, which is apparently something J.P. Ricciardi wanted to do.

Also, I think that part of the book was played up by Lewis; I don’t think Beane himself thought he was reinventing the wheel so much as trying something new that would identify some diamonds in the rough.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I now twitter as @junkstats and blog about made-up stats and general baseball stuff at JunkStats.

by Jacob Peterson on Sep 15, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just remember looking at their list of the guys they really really wanted and counting off how many I’d seen in independent league baseball. It was interesting to argue that college players stats were more meaningful, and thus would lead to less failure in the draft, but it clearly wasn’t the case. I’ve seen plenty of guys dominate college baseball and thought, “Well, I hope they enjoy it cause they can’t do it in the pros.”

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 16, 2011 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Finally someone who doesn't just automatically associate OBP with moneyball

Moneyball is a business book as much as a baseball book, about finding market inefficiencies and exploiting them. OBP, post moneyball has become a lot less of an undervalued commodity. Lately, defense was one of the big trends but I’m not sure about that after watching the Mariners bomb this season.

It definitely has been a thinking shift over the past decade or so. The value teams put on their prospects and even expiring contracts that will net them compensatory picks has skyrocketed in that time.

by was385 on Sep 15, 2011 11:21 AM EDT reply actions  

It wasn’t OBP itself that made the skill attractive, it was the monetary value compared to actual value that made it attractive.

If you use the cobweb theory of economics, there will be overshifts, each one of slightly lesser value, for some time to value. The key is stay ahead of the curve and find undervalued skillsets before they get overvalued.

by Broccoman on Sep 15, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

market correction has already happened in baseball with regards to OBP by the time Moneyball was published in 2004

by LEastCoastBears on Sep 15, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moneyball is about finding value where others don’t see it. It isn’t about Beane, or Bill James, or any specific stat. Great write up, Jacob.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Sep 15, 2011 11:38 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Sep 15, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

But Joe Morgan told me Billy Beane wrote the book to try and put all of the scouts in the unemployment line. Do you defy Joe Morgan? Tread lightly, my friend.

by J-Turn14 on Sep 15, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

After all, Joe Morgan is such an expert that he didn’t even read the book. That’s how well he already knows this stuff.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still basically disagree with the claim that the Braves are influenced by the book itself

More that they’ve had to adapt to the changing realities of the game and free agency itself. 15 years ago, the Braves were able to have one of the highest salaries in the game. Since then, they’ve gotten to the point where the Yankees are easily able to pay twice as much as they are. Their situation would have changed regardless if the A’s hadn’t set the example for Michael Lewis to write about.

Heck, if you ever read “Built to Win,” John Schuerholz is basically disgusted with the idea that the A’s were doing anything groundbreaking themselves. He of course talks about how the Braves were using statistics to do things in the same way the A’s were (though he makes me think he’d never heard of advanced stats). He’d pointed out the need to continue building internally, that they needed to scale back on the spending, as starting back in the late 90’s.

Moreover, “Moneyball,” wasn’t about OBP as much as it was about acquiring players with undervalued skills. I honestly don’t see the Braves attempting to apply that philosophy at all in the applied sense. Signing Garret Anderson, trading for Dan Uggla, trading Yunel Escobar for Alex Gonzalez, spending lots of money on Billy Wagner and Takashi Saito, these aren’t exactly moves that show the Braves are attempting to find undervalued players. Living with Jeff Francoeur in RF for way, way too long seems to prove the exact opposite-that they tend to overvalue players with traditional skillsets instead of attempting to creatively solve their money issues.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Sep 15, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s a mixed bag. Trading for Michael Bourn, aggressively scouting and developing pitchers who maximize Ks and minimize BBs, and moving into a college-heavy scouting mindset are indications that organizationally they are taking some of this to heart.

And I’m not sure how you figure that EOF, Christian Martinez, Anthony Varvaro, or Jose Constanza are living proof that the Braves do a fantastic job of finding undervalued players cast off by other organizations.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know the exact success/fail rates for minor league free agents and waiver pick ups, but the Braves seem to do pretty well. I can’t recall any former Braves who other teams have picked up and played in the majors with much success. Even if the Braves hit on 5 percent of this kind of acquisitions, it may be better than other teams. I think it’s safe to say that no one probably saw EOF ever reaching this level in his career, but the Braves have made it happen.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Michael Bourn is a pretty good move-getting someone who has good OBP, speed, and defense and avoiding giving up big pieces for him. He was clearly undervalued since we didn’t have to give up any of the big 4 to get him.

I’ll even throw the Mark Teixeira trade into this-not that he’s undervalued, but I think it required the Braves to take an objective look at their assets: We traded a blocked SS prospect, a blocked C prospect, and couple of pitchers when we already good organizational pitching depth (and it’s even better now) in order to get a star player with over a year to free agency to replace a sub-replacement first baseman. It seems to fit the model.

But there’s a lot of other moves that seem to show that the Braves are basically flipping a coin-sometimes they make a move that makes sense in the Moneyball way (again, not speaking specifically about OBP here, but players that are undervalued by the current market). They trade for Javy Vazquez, then overpay for Derek Lowe. They trade away Jeff Francoeur (finally), and then outright release Kelly Johnson. They trade away Javy Vazquez at the peak of his value, then trade away Yunel Escobar at the low point of his.

It seems to me that there isn’t a tried and true process, it’s just that they’re guessing and doing some right, some wrong.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Sep 15, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andrus wasn't blocked

and our pitching depth at the time of that deal was nowhere near what it is now. And wasn’t that strong at the time of the deal, which I guess would be obvious out of me considering my biggest problem with that deal was the complete dearth of starters aside from Huddy and Smoltz, and a bullpen that was pieced together on the fly as Wickman collapsed and had to be continued to be pieced together over the following years.

And then there’s “sub-replacement 1B” when we had options like Prado and others for the spot.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Sep 15, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who was making that argument?

It certainly wasn’t me.

I brought up some of those players (never mentioned Varvaro) to show that the Braves have recognized the value in lower-risk means of acquiring talent. It’s not about “undervalued” talent at all. It’s about lowering the risk threshold, particularly in terms of financial risk.

As I said in another post, this is not about player evaluation—which is what you and Bronn seem to think it’s about—it’s about methods of player acquisition. Not how you choose which players to get, but how you get them.

I’m not saying the Braves fit every possible criterion that might be associated with Moneyball. No team does. These posts that argue about whether the Braves search for undervalued players just completely missed the point of the article.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I now twitter as @junkstats and blog about made-up stats and general baseball stuff at JunkStats.

by Jacob Peterson on Sep 15, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I took something different from Moneyball than you did

I mean, yes, part of the point was that MLB economics defined Oakland as a small market team while the Yankees were big market team, meaning they couldn’t compete over the same free agents…but that doesn’t make a very interesting book. It’s like saying that your mom&pop grocer has a less reliable supply chain than Publix. Surely nobody needed someone to write a book to explain that Oakland couldn’t sign Alex Rodriguez.

What made Oakland interesting was that their approach to deal with it was to spend their resources to acquire players who valuable, but were somewhat of a market inefficiency in that they weren’t being compensated relative to their actual value. At least, that seems to have been the point of the book-I read it just once, and it has been a while, but that’s what I garnered from it. That’s an adaptable philosophy which allows to shift when the marketplace does-if they catch on to what you’re doing, you can just look for the next market inefficiency and try to slide in.

Some of your actual examples even seem to run exactly counter to your point. Oakland took David Justice as an overpaid player in the last year of his deal to avoid signing a long term free agent. The Braves traded for Tim Hudson and Dan Uggla, and the first thing they did with each of them was sign them to a long term extension before either of them had even played a game. Extending Tim Hudson for $47 million turns out to have been a solid move, but there’s some risk in agreeing to pay a pitcher $13 million each for seasons which are 4 and 5 years down the line. How’d that long extension for Eric Chavez work out, anyway? Got hurt and stopped providing any value to a small market team while he was making $10 million a season.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Sep 16, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Granted Garret Anderson was a tortoise running in quicksand. But if you remember that period, the Braves were almost in desperation mode. They had a lot of holes. They were jilted by pitching, SS and outfield free agents. The plane was on fire, in a free fall with little hope of survival.

Yunel was a cancer. Francoeur was a cry baby. Wagner was valuable – I would not say over paid. The Braves did pay a lot for Dan Uggla. But when you can get a power hitting, always hustle, club house guy at 2nd base you take him. If he is a left fielder, he is expensive. As a 2nd baseman, he probably fairly valued.

- ChillyMutt

by ChillyMutt on Sep 15, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I value Wagner not just for his work on the mound, but the influence on our pen, especially Jonny and Kimbrel. Being around one of the best has to teach those guys a thing or two.

As great as Yunel may turn out to be over the long term, he simply didn’t fit the mold. His slump didn’t help. Besides, watching Sea Bass’s glove work just makes me smile on a daily basis…. And his bat gives me a great reason to drink.

I’m the player to be named later.

by Crash Davis on Sep 15, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not really saying that the Braves were influenced by the book,

only that the ideas contained in/popularized by the book have changed baseball culture. That’s not because of the book, though the book was part of it. I don’t think Billy Beane was some revolutionary genius—in fact, the book takes pains to point out the actual origins of some of these ideas, back to Bill James and his contemporaries.

The entire point of the piece is about how the Braves have responded to their new circumstances and the new conditions in the game. There has been a clear change in how they have done business.

Obviously, the last point you make, about undervalued skill sets, is something that doesn’t really apply to the Braves. Which is why I never argued that point in the article. The Braves still have a traditional view in many ways, as I said. But in the limited area of the post—how they’ve dealt with the various methods of player acquisition (not evaluation)—they have clearly adopted the lessons that are presented in the book.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I now twitter as @junkstats and blog about made-up stats and general baseball stuff at JunkStats.

by Jacob Peterson on Sep 15, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

A change is gonna come

The Braves are doing something different lately, and I think they’re just starting.

IMO one of the newest changes is the recognition that the steroid era is over and we now need some speed. The acquisition of Bourn and the elevation of Constanza have changed the complexion of our offense.

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Sep 15, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent post

I’m hoping that this movie, as much as Keith Law hated it, helps debunk a lot of false truths associated with Moneyball. Too often, the concept was seen as nothing but the pursuit of high-walk, high-OBP players, and not the concept of finding efficiency where others weren’t looking.

Anything can be Moneyball, depending on the time and/or era. As long as the majority baseball landscape is ignoring it, and someone else can cost-effectively exploit it to their benefit, it’s Moneyball.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Sep 15, 2011 11:53 AM EDT reply actions  

In Engineering, there was a similar book that came out 25+ years ago called “The Goal”. The book basically shot holes in the Manufacturing philosophy of lowest cost per unit, arguing that production without sales is waste, and began the movement for Just-in-Time (JIT) methods of production.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think production without sales is also a product of full absorption costing, because fixed expenses end up sitting in the extra inventory and that inventory just sits on the books as assets. Variable costing is a much better system of costing, at least for internal purposes.

by MatM on Sep 15, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really want to see that movie.

And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT

by Sparhawk on Sep 15, 2011 12:07 PM EDT reply actions  

You really need to read the book. The movie trailer seems to make Billy Beane out to be this maverick against the baseball establishment. It makes Peter Brand (or really, Paul Depodesta) out to be this bumbling genius. The truth is that the undercurrent for their decision-making was years in the making.

Having read about Billy Beane’s character in the book, I do think Brad Pitt was an excellent casting choice.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m gonna have to read the book now too. :) Cause books are always better than the movie.

Haven’t had anything good to read in awhile too.

And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT

by Sparhawk on Sep 15, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I highly recommend the book. Actually, I recommend any of Michael Lewis’ work. I haven’t picked up any of his new stuff, but his older work is awesome. Money Culture (about the ridiculousness of the banking industry) and The New New Thing (about early internet venture capitalists) are both great books. They’re pretty old now, but his analysis still largely holds true.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Big Short is good too

It’s pretty much a sequel to Money Culture, but about the financial collapse of 2008.

by a5ehren on Sep 15, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Book was great.

Michael Lewis is an exceptional author.

"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton

by UMDBHIK on Sep 17, 2011 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

The movie trailer seems to make Billy Beane out to be this maverick against the baseball establishment.

That’s how the book makes him out too.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 15, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The book shows that he’s the first GM to put into practice all the Sabermetric resources that had been floating around before then…the Bill James/Eric Walker papers, the AVM systems data, etc. The first one to purely draft from statistics rather than pure scouting.

According to the book, Sandy Alderson had been preaching OBP and plate patience for over a decade before the climatic event of the 2002 First Year player draft…only to have Tony LaRussa undo that philosophy once their hitters made the bigs.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

But still, there’s a general thrust in the book that implies that Beane is an innovator. The guys in there are talking over and over again about how they’re doing things other people don’t do. There are long talks about The Club and the Old Boys Network. There’s a definite slant in the book that Beane is a maverick against the baseball establishment, that’s one of the most obvious themes.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 15, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear you. They definitely played up Billy Beane’s banishment (vengenace of a sort, really) of old-school traditional scouts and paralleled it with his own unsavory experience getting scouted simply for his tools and thrown into A-ball as an 18 year old.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lewis’ books are all about picking a hero and following his exploits. I think he definitely overstates his influence to keep the book engaging, but I still enjoyed it.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Teixeira trade, Lowe/Kawakami signings were anti-Moneyball

The disgracefully shortsighted trade for Mark Teixeira in July 2007 proves how recently the Braves have eschewed the principles you advocate.Teixiera and his agent Scott Boras had just turned down a $140 million extension. Did the Braves really think they could hold on to him by outbidding the Yankees in Fall 2008?

Or were they merely mortgaging their future — which at the time included Neftali Feliz, Elvis Andrus, Matt Harrison, and Jarrod Saltalamacchia — for a shot at one postseason? It may not have been the worst bad mortgage going around in 2007, but there were no federal bailouts for that one, just the enduring image of the Rangers finally becoming a World Series participant.

The Braves haven’t learned from Moneyball, but they may have learned from that huge mistake. Hopefully they have also learned from the bad mortgages they took out on Derek Lowe and Kenshin Kawakami. How I wish that Braves fans could have bought credit default swaps on Kawakami! Aside from these transactions, the Braves have done very well since Frank Wren and his team took over.

This advance into longer term thinking, accomplished through trial-and-error, has been the product of necessity, and a continuation of John Schuerholz’ emphasis on player development. He bested Billy Beane in their big trade face-off, on the way to bringing the Braves back to the postseason.

Maybe they should have made a movie about Schuerholz!

by JimK on Sep 15, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I think the Teixeira trade was just about winning that one year. I would always say that winning one World Series outweighs 10 division titles. If the GM thinks he’s one trade away, I’d let him go for it.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

As good as the trade to get Smoltz was. The Teixera trade was twice as bad.
And yes, I think we all realized that the future was mortgaged. Love to have a couple of those guys back. Lowe was a signing out of desperation. Kawakami’s signing was just plain stupid. I was not a fan a first but I think Wren is learning though. (yes I know the Tex trade was Schurholtz) And I believe that along with ‘Moneyball’ philosophy, surgical Moneyball unfriendly moves do make sense. The concept can and should be scaled per teams payroll objectives. The Braves are a mid market team so a ‘blend’ of ideals makes sense for them.

- ChillyMutt

by ChillyMutt on Sep 15, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I despie the Teixeira trade

But that’s an overstatement. That trade would have hobbled most teams for several years but the Braves have (essentially) kept on chugging. It’s never good to just give away someone like Neftali Feliz but when your organizational depth produces a guy who is just as good (if not better) for that slot a year later, it’s an acceptable loss.

The lasting scar of the trade for the Braves is that Andrus was thrown in, leaving us no fallback when Yunel was traded. We put all of our eggs in the Escobar basket and that’s going to make SS a troublesome spot for us for a while.

Stll…the Smoltz trade helped set a decade and a half of championship level baseball into place. There is no way that the Teixeira trade, noxious as it continues to be, outweighs that, especially by double.

by Sam Jethroe on Sep 15, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

Looking forward to watching this movie as well.

by Andy Kim on Sep 15, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Baseball isn’t a salary capped sport, so holding onto stars is OKAY, if you can afford it. The Braves will never have the payroll because of this “build from within” philosophy. To make money in sports you need a good TV product, and Randall Delgado and Mike Minor just don’t move the meter nationally. Once Ted Turner left, this has been a team on budget, which is OKAY. They have done it effectively.

If anyone knocks baseball I get upset, because I think it's a wonderful life.

by BeatTehMets on Sep 15, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Moneyball also conveniently ignores the Oakland connection to the PED era...

The book was written a few years before the BALCO investigations and Mitchell Reports became public. Players like Jason Giambi (and their description of a collegiate Mark Teahen), who famously in the book could hit and take walks but had no significant natural power, were not discounted because it was assumed that players “develop power”.

Now, I know that growth, strength training, and learning how to recognize pitches/pitch counts has a lot to do with that…but you have to wonder.

by TBuzz on Sep 15, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Wouldn’t your logic apply to all major league teams? Depending on who you believe, every team could have had a guy like Giambi getting by on steroids.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Post, but a quibble

The Renteria trade was closer to the Teixeria deal than the others listed. Marte was considered a top tier prospect when we traded him (made the top 10 in BA’s top 100 list at least once). We weren’t as high on him as some other pundits, but he was highly thought of at that time.

by theatlfan on Sep 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT reply actions  

He was *once* highly thought of,

but by the time of the deal, his star had fallen quite a bit. He still had good value, but nothing like what Teheran, Minor, etc.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I now twitter as @junkstats and blog about made-up stats and general baseball stuff at JunkStats.

by Jacob Peterson on Sep 15, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

???

You do realize BA named him the 14th best prospect in all MiLB after the trade… right?

by theatlfan on Sep 16, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fact.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 16, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post

As good as Moneyball was (and it’s a great business book), it simplified things. The Braves have always been pretty good at ferreting out castoffs who no one else was interested in. Julio Franco leaps to mind. Signing Bream, Belliard and Pendleton to cheap contracts was pure genius. They had young pitching and terrible defense and they fixed that in a month. That Pendleton started raking was just gravy.

They’ve also maximized their drafts, given that we rarely seem to have a first round pick. Hanson, Venters, Kimbrel and many others came out of late rounds. That’s scouting, not advanced metrics.

My favorite part of Moneyball was Beane’s deep and abiding love for that fat AA third baseman who hated to swing at anything out of the strike zone. He’d never even met the guy or seen him play, but he was absolutely right about Youk being massively undervalued. But guys with off-the-charts skills that aren’t valued are pretty rare.

by Mekons1 on Sep 15, 2011 12:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Former Brave Derrin Ebert is in the movie portraying Mike Magnante. You might remember Ebert’s Major League debut in 1999, when he pitched a perfect 3 inning save in relief of Greg Maddux. His wife was in the stands taking video and ballpark security asked her to stop. The broadcast of the game ended up showing his wife as much as they showed him.

If you look on imdb.com Derrin has a bunch of headshots, so I guess he’s trying to be an actor now. I definitely wish him luck, he and he wife were incredibly nice people. I was actually standing next to Derrin when he got the call telling him he was going up to Atlanta, so I have a soft spot for him.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 15, 2011 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Well Done

Nice article Jacob.

- ChillyMutt

by ChillyMutt on Sep 15, 2011 1:24 PM EDT reply actions  

If you liked Moneyball the book

Try reading The Extra 2% by Jonah Keri. If you didn’t like Moneyball the book, don’t read The Extra 2%.

No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.

by royhobbs on Sep 15, 2011 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s on my short list.

"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight

by Chipper Pwns on Sep 15, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a sterling recommendation.

What’s it about, etc.?

"Jason Heyward was a Greek philosopher reincarnated as a baseball player." - Don Sutton

by UMDBHIK on Sep 17, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also think this is a worthwhile article.

Still worth pointing out that the Braves haven’t won a playoff series since 2001. No one wants to ask the hard question as to whether or not this approach is going to lead to World Series victories.

by Zontar on Sep 15, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

2002: Glavine gets lit up twice, offense chokes in Game 5 against Giants (ruining my life for a long, long time afterwards). In that Game 5, offense repeatedly blew chances to score with RISP. This after the other two wins in the series (non-Glavine starts), where the offense completely blew the Giants out.

2003: Team runs into Kerry Wood. Hampton can’t match Wood in Game 5, the end.

2004: Carlos Beltran engages “Give me giant contract mode.” Also, Jaret Wright didn’t quite pitch like a Game 1 postseason starter.

2005: ffuuuuuu Chris Burke

by Ivan the Great on Sep 15, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plenty of other teams haven’t won a playoff series since 2001 either.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Sep 15, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's led to playoff berths,

which is all you can ask for. The playoffs, as you should really know (assuming you’re a Braves fan) are just as dependent on luck as on skill.

I think it’s indisputably true that putting less money into major free agent signings (not eliminating them, perhaps, but limiting them) and more money into young players is a smart move.

If I had to make a list of the teams most likely to win a World Series in the next 5 years, the Braves would be in the top 5, without a doubt. The odds are still stacked against them—they’re stacked against everyone but the teams that can spend $150M on payroll—but they’re in just about as good of a position as you could ask for, overall.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
I now twitter as @junkstats and blog about made-up stats and general baseball stuff at JunkStats.

by Jacob Peterson on Sep 15, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very nice article. Rec +1.

And it's now my sig
by Bronn on May 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT

by Sparhawk on Sep 15, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Great read

Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960

by Darin H on Sep 15, 2011 10:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Can anyone explain Huddy's wrist Tat?

Its always seemed so out of character for him.

by 5InningsofChuckJames on Sep 16, 2011 2:13 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Can't get the link to work, but

Huddy explains them in the 3rd episode of the David Ross Show.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude

by CMassey on Sep 16, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

lemme try again...

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude

by CMassey on Sep 16, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry links not working for some reason

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, uh, your opinion, man. -The Dude

by CMassey on Sep 16, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

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