Norton vs. Proctor: a creative exercise in futility
by Santaklose11 on Aug 9, 2011 6:25 PM EDT
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PrintSo I posted this on one of the daily articles (8/9/2011 Uggla No Struggla) but I want to hear what people see as the outcome in two face-offs between two of the greatest underachievers in recent Braves history (we will not delve into the endeavors of failure prior to 1991). That being said, I present to you the greatest (or worst) bout in the history of futility:
Your mission: explain what happens in the at bat each round. In each scenario the scene is the 19th inning in a tie game with 2 outs and no one on. There must be a winner in each round.
Round 1
Pitcher Scott Proctor vs. Hitter Greg Norton:
Round 2:
Pitcher Greg Norton vs. Hitter Scott Proctor:
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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My Verdict:
1. Greg Norton, gets it to a 3-2 count, and then proceeds to hit 238 straight dribblers into foul territory until the Home Plate Umpire calls him out on general principle, the First Base umpire (Dan Iossogna) disagrees, the dugouts empty in the disagreement and 24 of Proctor’s team mates are ejected leading to Proctor’s team forfeiting and thus losing the game.
2. Proctor hits a grounder back to Norton, but somehow the ball becomes lodged in his glove. Proctor meanwhile trips out of the box, gets up and jogs to 1B. Pendleton, informs him of what is going on and Proctor takes off. As he rounds 3rd, (with Norton still unable to dislodge the ball from his glove), Proctor trips and falls again, this time Norton runs over and clearly tags him while he is on the ground. Proctor gets up and walks back to the dugout. On his way back to the dugout Proctor inadvertently crosses home-plate where he is ruled safe, (for the game winning run) by Home Plate Umpire Jerry Meals.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 9, 2011 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Perfectly said
I couldn’t come up with anything that would top what you have described . Well done .
This is a paradox, like the opposite of “what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?” Then holes start getting ripped in the universe as if someone just divided by zero.
But in this case
Its the stoppable force meets a movable object.
"I don’t know what he’s done differently, whether he’s eating differently or Sue is making him happier, but he’s definitely a different coach out there" Devon Still
Maybe I just don’t know how to have fun, but this is dumb. The guys are/were Major League baseball players, and both have/had pretty nice careers.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
___________________________
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
by leedawg on Aug 10, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Proctor certainly was a great reliever.
Too good, in fact, because it led Joe Torre to shred his arm by using him like, say, Johnny Venters for so many years in a row that his arm literally fell off and was replaced by a prosthetic. Stupid technology was insufficient for Proctor to continue to be an effective major league pitcher. As for Norton, apparently one bad season completely destroys the one good season he had with us. He was never more than a 24th or 25th guy on the roster, but a decent PH for a while.
Thank you Mrs. Proctor (or Mrs. Norton)
congrats on ripping off multiple MLB clubs.
This is not about them as people...from what I understand they are both great guys
and at one point they may have been decent players…..just not with the Braves.
With the Braves, they were the worst players I have ever seen take the field in their respective roles….ever. Indeed they were so bad that it prompted this very creative joke contest.
If it didn’t make you cringe whenever either of them was brought in to do any kind of job…even mop up….then you are some kind of heavenly being with the patience, calmness, and understanding of a Saint.
Predicting that Proctor would give up runs whenever he came in to pitch, and predicting that Norton would some how find a way to end the Braves offensive half of the inning was like predicting that the sun would rise in the East.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Norton had a good year with the Braves
it just wasn’t his last year. The year before he was excellent off the bench. His last year, well, it’s hard to look good as a hitter on less than 10 plate appearances a month.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 10, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I get late 2008 (Norton was O..k..)
But in his lone full season in 2009 Norton was so bad sometimes I wished he would strike out….
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
We acquired him that May of 08
early May, to me, that’s pretty much a “full season”.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 10, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, again, 08 he was o.k., but he wasn't good enough to be remembered by it
He is much more remembered for ’09, where he was as bad with the bat as Proctor was pitching….and yet, like Proctor, the Braves kept running him out there.
At any rate…what is your predicted outcome of the face-offs above?
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
No idea
and Norton was better than Proctor. Even his bad year, he couldn’t get a hit but still had a respectable obp. I’ve had the argument with justin a few times that in the situation he was called on for as a pinch hitter, BA is more important than OBP, but his was still a respectable .330, in spite of both BA and SLG below .200.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 10, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He is only much more remembered for 2009...
…by people whose memories don’t go back one more year and by those who want to be haters. Which are you?
I will openly admit that I am a Norton hater (as a player)...but for good reason
He choked so often and so bad in 09 that that it way overshadows his stat line and value (still 0.0) in ’08.
Granted I mainly only got to see him in 09 and not 08 (because I had to study for the Bar Exam in 08). But, yeah, from what I saw from Norton….sure, call me a hater…
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
and at one point they may have been decent players…..just not with the Braves.
Norton was just about the best pinch hitter in baseball in 2008, and certainly the best the Braves ever had at that position.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
As a pinch hitter in 2008: 74 plate appearances: .316 average, .999 OPS, 3 HR, 18 RBI, and 13 strikeouts. As a pinch hitter in 2009: 89 plate appearances: .162 average, .551 OPS, 7 RBI and 18 strikeouts.
In 2011 Erik Hinske has a .206 average, a .672 OPS, 6 RBI, and 14 strikeouts in 38 plate appearances as a pinch hitter. Brooks Conrad has a .214 average, a .827 OPS, 3 homers, 7 RBI, and 22 strikeouts in 50 plate appearances.
In 2010, Hinske had a .298 average, .985 OPS, 3 home runs, 12 RBI and 7 strikeouts in 54 plate appearances as a pinch hitter. Conrad had a .224 average, .711 OPS, 3 homers, 12 RBI, and 20 strikeouts in 63 plate appearances.
So Hinske’s great 2010 off the bench was pretty comparable to Norton’s 2008. And while Norton’s 2009 is certainly the worst of this group, he didn’t strike out in 44% of his pinch hit appearances like Conrad is this year. Greg Norton had one really outstanding year with the Braves, and one pretty bad one, so to say he was never decent with the Braves, is just plain wrong.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
see above conversation with Mr.Sanchez
In 2009 the only hope we ever had with Norton at the plate was to draw a walk….and that is not what you are looking for in PH situations.
As a pinch hitter in 2009: 89 plate appearances: .162 average, .551 OPS, 7 RBI and 18 strikeouts.
He also had a 38 OPS+ combined with 0 sacrifices flies and 0 sacrifice hits.
Yikes!! that is what I was referring to…. That is like referring to the few fly balls, strikeouts, and ground-ball outs this year induced by Proctor and calling his performance not so bad.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
oh and Norton also had 20Ks to go with his 20 total walks in his 97 plate appearances
that is a 20.6% K rate. Hinske this year has a 27% K rate this but at least he is slugging .440 as opposed to Norton’s amazing .171 in 2009
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Norton had WAR of -0.2 in 2009
Eric Hinske already has a 0.9 WAR this year and we still have 1 and 1/2 months to go.
I admit that I am no stat genius but do you really want to compare 09 Norton to 11 Hinske? Really?
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hinske as a pinch hitter...
…does not have 0.9 WAR. He has started a lot of games. I am not sure what the Norton haters are doing here, cbwilk schools you with the stats and you act like the stats show that you are right.
Norton was not only a PH either...
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
those are Norton's total WAR numbers for '09...not just as a PH
and they played the same position
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
lets see
in 2010 Hinkse posted 1.1 WAR and Norton posted 0.0 WAR.
lets look at BA/OBP/SLG/OPS/HRs/RBIs
Eric Hinske in 2010 with the Braves looks like this
.256 .338 .456 .793 11 51
Greg Norton in 2008 with the Braves (his good year) looks like this:
.246 .361 .427 .788 7 31
In what way beyond OPB alone is Norton better than Hinske in the same role?
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Norton's WAR in 2008 was 0.0
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Norton as a pinch hitter in 2008: 74 plate appearances: .316 average, .999 OPS, 3 HR, 18 RBI, and 13 strikeouts. In 2010, Hinske had a .298 average, .985 OPS, 3 home runs, 12 RBI and 7 strikeouts in 54 plate appearances as a pinch hitter.
Why are you looking at their overall stats and not their pinch hitting stats? And none of this get to the real point, you said Norton was never even a decent player with the Braves, and that’s just not true.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Why does this comparison...
…remind me of the BP article yesterday comparing the current Astros and the Peanuts gang? (And yes, the comparison was on baseball ability.)
hey, last couple of days the current Astros have been playing well
offensively at least…
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
by Santaklose11 on Aug 10, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Fun fact:
Norton is now the AAA manager for the Marlins. Go figure.
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
by TurnerTheBurner on Aug 12, 2011 12:49 AM EDT reply actions
Good for him...
He can teach them all he knows about getting out, helping NL east teams beat the Marlins in the future…
in seriousness, he probably is a good coach.
was named their hitting coach going in to last year...
when they fired Fredi and promoted Rodriguez from AAA manager to MLB manager, Norton slid in to the open spot.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
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