Fredi Gonzalez Is Wearing My Patience Thin
by ace16tx on Aug 24, 2011 11:02 PM EDT
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I’ve got to say, I have been very frustrated with Fredi Gonzalez and the way he has managed this year. First off to be fair we do have one of the best teams in the league but the way he has managed his pinch hitting and bunting situations. I feel like the Braves could have at least an extra three games in the standings if he would follow through with common sense.
This of course being triggered by tonights ninth inning (semi) drama. Dan Uggla gets hit by a pitch to lead off the ninth in a one run game. On a night where you could count the Braves runs or hits on one hand he decides since Freddie Freeman is up there then we shouldn’t bunt. To be fair I see his argument. “Freddie Freeman has probably never put down a bunt in his life.” That may be true. But I am so tired of that way of thinking. If I was a manager I wouldn’t care if you were Gregor Blanco, Albert Pujols, or Jesus Christ himself. Dammit, if you are going to be on my team you are going to learn how to bunt and you are going to be accountable to be able to bunt in a situation like that.
It seems like this happens every game.
Just........ infuriating......
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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I say no.
If you bunt, then they walk Chipper, Heyward either strikes out or grounds into a double play, and if he strikes out, Gonzalez is up and he either strikes out or pops up.
"I heard that Tits was "well rounded" and his brother Cans was a "stand out." :D"
by Old Braves' Fan on Aug 18, 2010 3:05 PM PDT
This post makes no sense. I disagree with Fredi often but he did nothing wrong in this inning at all.
by Ultada on Aug 24, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
this
I agree with it.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Aug 26, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Atlanta is arguably the second best team in baseball. I don’t care if Gonzalez has them wearing pink tutus so long as they are putting up Ws.
At the end of the day, you can’t win every game.
But what if we could win more?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps an even better question would be:
Are you saying “I don’t care if Gonzalez makes decisions that results in us losing games – as long as we win!”
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
You would bunt with Pujols?
And you have the gall to claim Fredi makes horrible decisions when it comes to bunting? That is probably one of the worst decisions a manager could make in baseball history.
by atlbravosfan on Aug 24, 2011 11:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Its not like one run is going win you game
Best case it gets you to extra innings. Why not let your best hitter (Pujols) hit and attempt to score two or more runs so your team can actually win the game without going to extras?
I might have Freeman bunt if this were a tie game, particularly in the bottom of the 9th, but certainly not in this situation.
i know what you are saying
and i would understand if it was like 5-4 with 15-20 hits in the game but the offense is so low that i would want one run for now especially with our bullpen
Honestly I'd rather take my chance and lose in 9
Then bunt and end up playing a really long extra inning game and winning.
if that was true last year
we wouldn’t have made the playoffs
Not necessarily
First, losing an extra game wouldn’t have guaranteed us missing the playoffs, it would have simply meant we played a 1 game playoff.
Second, you’re assuming that wearing out our bullpen in a long game wouldn’t have any effect in subsequent games.
Third, like I said, you would be taking a chance on winning in the 9th anyway, which I believe leads to better odds of winning anyway. I’d rather take that chance and lose than make what I believe is a worse play and win.
Fourth, my opinion might be different if we didn’t have such a huge lead.
I’d rather take that chance and lose than make what I believe is a worse play and win.
Am I reading that right? Did you just say that you would rather lose a game somehow, than win a game somehow?
Please tell me that I’ve misunderstood you, because I’m pretty sure that one in the W column is better than one in the L column. I think that I read that in a manual somewhere.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
I'd rather make the smart play and lose
You don’t make decisions with the benefit of hindsight.
No.
But you can certainly criticize with the benefit of hindsight, amirite?
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
You do realize...
That the fact that we didn’t have many hits in the game leading up to that inning has NO bearing on whether we’ll get hits in the 9th, especially when there’s a new pitcher in the game? Marmol has sucked lately and has been wild as a deer – beaned Uggla and went to 3 ball counts on both Freeman and Heyward.
Not to mention the wind was blowing out like crazy – much rather pin my hopes on one of Freeman/Chipper/Heyward getting a hold of one and taking the lead than sacrificing an out to move Uggla up 90 feet in a road game. Especially with a guy who doesn’t ever bunt at the plate.
You're saying past performance does not guarantee future results?
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
by sddbaker on Aug 25, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would have never thought that there would be a post saying Fredi doesn’t bunt enough.
by Choppa2Chippa on Aug 25, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Word...
To your mutha.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
Play to Win on the Road; Play to Tie at Home
Don’t think I’d bunt Freddie in either situation though. Don’t sacrifice your run producers – let them produce runs.
by theatlfan on Aug 24, 2011 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
just because it's catchy doesn't make it true
especially with the best bullpen in the league
So what?
We should play for the tie on the road, and risk burning out our bullpen on every road trip? Sorry, but I can’t agree with that.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
no you don't bunt there
"Don't put off til tomorrow what you can put off til the day after tomorrow." -Mark Twain
by SouthernPanther on Aug 24, 2011 11:41 PM EDT reply actions
ROY Candidate up at the plate.....
As a manager, you get fired if you bunt with him. You wouldn’t even get to keep your job until the end of the game if you bunted with Pujols. Freddy is batting over .290. You let him swing away and take the 1 out of 3 chance that he gets a hit, which most likely would leave runners on 1st and 3rd with 0 outs.
And .333...
…over the last four months. Holy sample sizes Batman!
by cavebird on Aug 26, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d let Freddie decide if he wanted to bunt.
I got no problem with either decision really. You get a man at 2nd with 1 out, you got about a 50% chance of keeping the game going.
That is just not true.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree to bunt the man over if it advances him to 3rd with 1 out, but your scoring odds aren’t improved that much by bunting him to 2nd with 1 out.
They are actually decreased.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
unless
the batter is horrendous, like a pitcher, correct? I like to think Freddie is better at hitting than every pitcher in baseball, so he should not be bunting in that situation
by atlbravosfan on Aug 25, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
you have to have the skills to do any job the manager wants (during the game)
This includes bunting, knowing how to steal, looking for the extra base, etc. YES, I think, “Why not?” Furthermore, let’s make it a rule that we have to attempt to bunt at least 1x , and try to steal a base every game!
He whose words outnumber his deeds, know that his death is better than his life.
This!
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
Sometimes scoring 1 run is more important then scoring multiple runs. Metrics always need to be evaluated in context.
Fine. I'll edit the comment
Giving away outs is the best way to score one run
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m ok with scoring one run there, given our stronger BP, and the fact we’d have top of the order coming up in the 10th.
Bunting is 95% the wrong decision, but I could make an argument that this was one of the 5% where it isn’t.
Runs do have declining marginal value.
The wind was blowing out in Wrigley Field. On days like that, it becomes one of the most hitter friendly parks in all of baseball. Two of the three Braves hits up to that point were home runs. Freeman has a great power swing and had the plantoon advantage against a shaky (at best) reliever. Bunting there would have been unwise.
by another simpsons avatar on Aug 25, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think you can ever make an argument that says decreasing your chances of scoring a run is the right decision.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree here.
I think bunting decreases your chances of scoring a run here. Freeman against a flamethrowing wild pitcher like Marmol probably has a 50% chance of successfully bunting. He probably has a 35% chance of reaching by walk or hit, which is a substantially better result. Face it, against Marmol, you don’t bunt because the only way you usually beat Marmol is to have him walk all of creation and then you get the big hit because he has to throw it right down the middle. Bunting just gives away one chance to have him walk a guy.
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
My money...
Is on “unintentional.”
A couple of years ago I would have agreed with the premise of this post. Now, though, I have been swayed by the new hotness of not giving away outs.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
you don't bunt in these kind of situation (especially on the road)
with one of your best hitter at the plate
by LEastCoastBears on Aug 25, 2011 1:14 AM EDT reply actions
I vote for option C
C. Bunting a runner to second with 0 outs is stupid anyway and actually decreases your chances of scoring a run in the inning by giving away one of your 3 outs.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:46 AM EDT reply actions
Just out of curiosity...
What is “Option C?”
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
Ah.
Was it what you posted below?
I would vote for the option that says I too am frustrated with Fredi.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
I hate this logic.
It’s just plain lazy…there are plenty of situations in which bunting a runner over is the right move, but people want to look at the aggregate and settle on its findings.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/were-the-yankee-sac-bunts-in-the-8th-inning-correct
Beware: It’s long.
Summary: There are plenty of situations in which sac bunting a man over is the correct move. It’s not as simple as looking at a run expectancy chart.
That said, bunting with Freddie would not be one of those situations.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Aug 25, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
My $0.02
If the batter is someone like Alex Gonzalez, bunt away.
If the batter is a pitcher, bunt away.
If there is a runner on 2nd and 0 outs, bunt away.
If there is a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, bunt away.
If the infield is playing a shift, bunt away.
If the infield is playing on the grass, bunt away.
That’s about the only situations that I can ever think of where I would be ok with bunting.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
How about ....
Tie game in extra innings. 1 out. Braves at home. Uggla at 3rd and Alex Gonzales batting. Sandoval is playing 5 feet behind 3rd base.
What do you do?
- ChillyMutt
With 1 out and nobody on 1st, you let Alex swing away.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 30, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Kinda hard to do that with nobody at 1st.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 31, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still trying to grasp the concept
that someone is actually upset with Fredi for NOT bunting…Fredi bunts more than any other manager I know of.
If this post were about how he’s frustrating because he bunts too much, or calls the hit and run when we can’t execute it, or how he constantly used Scott Proctor in crucial situations, or how he pinch ran for Chipper a few games ago when there was a runner ahead of Chipper at 3B, or how he constantly mismanaged the bullpen, or how he constantly hit Alex in the 2-spot, or how he benches Heyward, etc – I would get it. I would agree with it. I would vote for the option that says I too am frustrated with Fredi.
But a fanpost about how Fredi DIDN’T bunt…this is shocking.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:52 AM EDT reply actions
This blew my mind, too.
It’s people getting their panties in a twist about everything he does that make it seem like everyone irrationally hates Fredi for everything.
Most of us just irrationally hate him for some of the things he does, which he does repeatedly.
I just want to point out that if he had bunted with Freddie, I probably would’ve flown to Chicago and attempted to dropkick him.
Also, trying to bunt a ball off Marmol must be really fun, especially for a guy like Freddie that’s probably rarely, if ever, been asked to bunt in his lifetime.
by Ivan the Great on Aug 25, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t get nitpicking the guy who’s managed a team with huge glaring faults to the third best record in baseball. Basically black holes of offense at SS and RF, complete black hole at 2B for the first half of the year, injuries at every position but 1B, 2B, and SS, some for extended periods, injuries to nearly every member of the rotation at different points, and rookies playing major roles, and still the team is the third best in baseball, only a few games behind teams whose payrolls are twice Atlanta’s. And yet still you’re nitpicking on the guy. And your nitpick isn’t even valid, because why would you ask one of your best hitters to give away an out? I just don’t get it. Some people just look to be unhappy.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Aug 25, 2011 3:27 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
THIS
I suggest we leave this Post up for all those that want to nitpick every move Fredi makes. It is so annoying to have to read this crap over and over, day in and day out. Heck, the game threads are so full of bitching and whining about Fredi, and the Heyward/Constanza debate I seldom participate anymore. It seems some on here thrive on drama, it’s always something.
It’s sad that some are so miserable, that even when we are winning a game, they are determined to complain about something.
Heaven forbid, if we haven’t scored a run by the 3rd inning, the game is over. /steps off ban box,,,,,,
Costanza is a horrible baseball player
by Jonesy24 on Aug 1, 2011 6:27 PM
Twitter:Hey_Jude18
by HEYJUDE on Aug 25, 2011 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Right there with you.
The amount of bitching and moaning smells of a team in a losing streak about to miss the playoffs. Yet this Braves team as cb points out has the effing THIRD best record in baseball on a 90 million dollar payroll. Either shut up or get off the train, I’m serious. These type of fans really need to just leave. It just smells of fair weather fans. Go root for the Yanks or the Sawx.
/rant
I’m not sure that fans who aren’t happy with the manager in a winning season could be considered “bandwagon.”
In fact, it would point to quite the opposite.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Critiquing a manager for questionable decisions is now “fair-weather.” That’s funny.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
by BenDuronio on Aug 25, 2011 12:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The fact that everyone is so hypercritical of Fredi and thinks they know whats best is really just getting annoying. No offense, but if you knew everything there was to know, you’d have Fredi’s job. I probably used the wrong terms, but I’m really just sick of all the whining and arm chair managing. The team has the third best record in the majors, just sit back and enjoy the ride.
No offense, but if you knew everything there was to know, you’d have Fredi’s job.
I hate statements like these. Are you saying that there is not a single person who is not in any given profession who could do the job better than people who actually are in that profession?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
A single person or even a handful of people, it doesn’t matter, because that number is so small it’s statistically irrelevant. cmdpsu15 is right, if people on a blog, or writers, or whoever really knew how to do it, they’d be the ones with 30 years in baseball and a job managing in the Majors.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
I don’t think MLB managers are in a meritocracy. Look at the Cubs’ situation. Ryne Sandberg was their AAA manager for years, but since the team went on a hot streak for a couple weeks under Quade, he was appointed manager.
by another simpsons avatar on Aug 25, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
there's a big droff off from Sandberg
to random people commenting on a blog.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I think it’s more of a situation of who you know than what you know – not to mention the willingness of people to do it, the opportunities presented, the abilities as a younger person to actually play the game and get a leg up in the managerial world, etc.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m 22 and I never played professional baseball. Becoming a manager is out of the question due to the latter fact. I could have the best managing skills in the world, but nobody is hiring a 22 year old MBA student to manage their team. Doesn’t mean I don’t know the odds better.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
by BenDuronio on Aug 25, 2011 1:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Theo Epstein’s story is a good one.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Front office is a place I would certainly like and hope to end up one day.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
by BenDuronio on Aug 25, 2011 1:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Carlos Tosca was a major league manager who never played professional baseball. He’s now our bench coach, so having no personal professional playing experience is not a disqualifier. It certainly lessens the odds that you would become a coach or manager, but it does not disqualify you.
There will always be a few anomalies in each sport, but it might be harder to become a manager with no pro baseball experience than actually becoming a pro baseball player.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
by BenDuronio on Aug 25, 2011 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's just a stupid statement...
it’s literally impossible to become a pro baseball player without “baseball experience”. The list of MLB players who weren’t players is obviously gonna be a lot smaller than the list of managers who didn’t play.
Other examples, Charlie Weiss, Lawrence Frank, etc. I think interest and willingness to put in the work is a major obstacle to non-players coaching. Because if you didn’t play, you’d rarely have the interest to coach. But there are those that are willing to put in the time and effort to get there.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Stupid me...
I reread your comment, and realize I misread it. Soryy ben.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I think this team has the third best record in baseball despite Fredi, not because of him.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think that couldn’t be more incorrect. That comes from a place that just doesn’t understand the incalculable impact a manager has on a team.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
I’m speaking strictly of his game management, not of his fatherly attributes which the vast majority of us can’t see.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
but you also act like in game decisions are the end all and be all the manager’s job, discounting if not ridiculing any “fatherly attributes” or “intangibles” as inconsequential fluff, which is just ignorant.
If that’s ignorant, then what is constantly putting Scott Proctor into a game in the most crucial of situations?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
something that obviously wasn't such an issue as to keep us from still succeeding
so maybe that’s a much bigger issue to you than it should be.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Really? Proctor wasn’t the losing pitcher in 3 of 5 games during one stretch?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
W/L is not a good measure of how well a manager has done. Its far more indicative of the talent/team the FO has put together. Fredi is in fact better when he manages less and doesn’t waste outs with sac bunts or silly hit and runs.
imot
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, we all loved Bobby.
And his game management skills weren’t much different. It is the other things involved, basically getting your players to play as well as they can, which you don’t see which may be more important—-and also the reason guys on a blog post would not be better managers even if the tactical game management were better.
Just because someone posts on a blog doensn’t mean that they lack leadership skills.
I don’t think ti would be too far fetched to imagine that there are people on the internet who are both smart and can manage people.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Then we get back to the baseball background.
To get the respect needed to manage properly, the baseball background may not be essential, but it certainly helps a lot.
That being said, all the griping was about the tactical points. From all indications, Fredi is pretty good at that. I doubt we could find someone here any better. Hell, while people here may have leadership skills, given all the flame wars and back and forth, I don’t think many here would have the steady even keeled personality necessary to manage.
But with some of the personalities, we may see Cox’s ejection record broken! :D
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
You still haven’t done a thing to explain why Fredi’s impact is a positive one.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
He hasn’t on twitter either. Pretty much got shut down throughout the day and oddly kept acting as if me and others were referencing stats to make the point clear when this obviously wasn’t occurring.
Looks like it’s just a situation where someone is unwilling to admit they are incorrect. I’ve been incorrect tons and tons of times and will readily admit when I make errors in judgement, but I suppose the same can’t be said for everyone.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
Come on, guys
This isn’t necessary.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Outstanding Post....should be green
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Here’s the problem, I’m not sure how much Fredi Gonzalez has contributed to this team’s success. We have seen certain trends (low OBP, baserunning issues- primary SB% difference since baserunning was never a strong suit) that are different from last year. The increase in overall power can be attributed more to different personnel than management styles. In the meantime we have seen very questionable decisions. This is the part of the game where we see the manager really impact the game. There is a lot of decision making that has been bad. But more importantly, I have been left questioning what kind of philosophy is driving Fredi and I haven’t been able to figure it out. I am afraid he might be relying more on his gut than anything else and that is literally no indication that his gut is a beneficial method or even a not bad method (and there is lot of evidence to indicate that perhaps it is a bad criteria.)
The thing is that people say that management is negligible. Perhaps that is true, but we have seen a lot of bad decision making from Fredi (see any time Proctor was pitched after April,) and even if a team as talented as the Braves can persevere, our success this year in absolutely no way represents any kind of managerial brilliance.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
The idea you reference in the last paragraph is real because managers make such similar decisions and those decisions are instilled in them at a young age. These are guys that have been around the game for a very, very long time and the game was played a specific way while they were growing up and as they learned to be coaches.
Many of the poor decisions Fredi makes are poor decisions that other managers make. I.E. the Braves extra innings games against the Pirates and Hanrahan making no appearances, putting really bad hitters in the second spot for an extended period of time, and frequently bunting with position players. Because other managers likely make almost all of the same types of decisions, it’s hard to imagine one having such a great affect on a team that it adds or subtracts more than but a few wins over the course of a season compared to a replacement manager.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
...
Fredi Gonzalez once called for a sacrifice bunt with 2 outs and nobody on base.
True story.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
I have heard that Bobby Cox once asked Glavine to walk the next hitter when the bases were loaded…
apparently, from the way Glavine tells it, Bobby wasn’t paying close enough attention because when Glavine asked him where he should put him, Bobby looked around and said never mind carry on…(or something to that effect)
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Aug 26, 2011 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Steve Jobs resigned at the time he did because...
He didn’t want to do another keynote speech for the iphone 5 that’s going to be released soon. I mean, we all know it’s only going to be a marginal improvement and in no way does it mean that it makes the previous iphone version obsolete. (But it will). I think he grew a conscience and realized that instead of doing another keynote speech for a product the world thoroughly doesn’t need, he just let some one else do it. I can’t wait to see someone else tell the world with a straight face that this iphone is biggerer and betterer and you’re a hick if you don’t get one.
by another simpsons avatar on Aug 25, 2011 8:35 AM EDT reply actions
As the kids would say it
Frustrated post-game loss rant is frustrated post-game loss rant.
It’s not like the team won six in a row before this one loss happened or anything.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
IMO
Maybe Freeman should have squared up like he was going to bunt on the first pitch- only to draw the infield in a tad for the remainder of his AB. Otherwise there is no way I’d ask this kid to sac bunt.
This season is yet another example of how managers don’t have a great affect on the outcome of a team’s season. Fredi has made some awful, awful decisions mixed in with the occasional decent one. His problem is without a doubt not the one you bring forth in this post. It’s pretty funny though.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
by BenDuronio on Aug 25, 2011 10:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
This season is yet another example of how managers don’t have a great affect on the outcome of a team’s season.
When I read statements like this all I can think is, “This person has never stepped on a field, and has absolutely no concept of how the game is played aside from on a stat sheet, which tells you basically nothing.”
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Aug 25, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Cool
You know nothing about me and even less about the sport if you think the difference between Fredi and whomever you think the worst manager in the league is would alter their standing greatly.
They’re very likely the wild card holders no matter which of the 30 managers are leading this team. And don’t act as if I’m the first person to make this claim.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
by BenDuronio on Aug 25, 2011 1:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But you aren't taking everything into account.
If purely tactical management decisions were the only thing a manager did, maybe. But they aren’t. From everything I have read, Fredi has managed a smooth transition from a legendary manager, the clubhouse has not had issues, and the players have played well. That is probably a more important job than the tactical managerial decisions. If not, the best manager would be a computer that could spit out lineups and make the tactical decisions, always going by the best odds.
Remember, Bobby was a tactical idiot, too. Does that mean he was a bad manager who just had good teams?
And yeah, the worst manager could alter the standings greatly—-not by tactical decisions, however.
Where am I calling him an awful manager? I certainly do not like him as a manager, but I understand that the difference between Fredi and the best manager and Fredi and the worst manager is minimal. The Braves are the wildcard leaders with any of the 30 managers in baseball. I don’t see how any manager would be worth 10 less games in the standings or 7 more.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
I think it is possible...
…for a manager to lose control of a team and have them perform far below their capabilities; that could make a 10 game difference. I think you over-emphasize the tactical components of managing in your posts.
And where did I say you said he was an awful manager? You were saying the difference between the best and worst managers was less than 10 games and I was disagreeing.
I really don’t over-emphasize that. The most important things in managing are keeping players in tact and managing the bullpen. I don’t see any instances in which any current member of the Braves’ roster would lose control and become a Carlos Zambrano-esque distraction.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
We obviously just disagree on...
…the importance of the different functions of a manager.
Assumptions
Are fun. Bet you have the mother’s basement comment q’d up
Follow me on Twitter: @hashtagbaseball
When I read statements like this:
When I read statements like this all I can think is, "This person has never stepped on a field, and has absolutely no concept of how the game is played aside from on a stat sheet, which tells you basically nothing."
All I can think is: “man, it sucks this guy is such a mental midget he can’t have a discussion without resorting to the ad hominem”.
by The Bullfrog Jeremiah on Aug 25, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Manager Impact
I’ve always believed that the most important job a manger has is handling twenty-five different players with twenty-five different personalities, from ~6 different countries and keeping morale high throughout a 162 game season. Leadership/inspirational abilities are first and foremost. No matter which side of the sabermetric battle your manager falls on, his in game decisions (assuming he isn’t having your worst reliever pitch the highest leverage innings or some such lunacy) will not affect your season win total by more than 2 or 3 games.
This is why Bobby was one of the greatest managers of all-time and why I’m ok with Freddie as long as he has this incredibly talented roster’s respect and admiration. This is also why not being a former player greatly hinders the possibility of being a manager. Not because someone who never played couldn’t figure out who should bunt or how to configure a line-up; but because fairly or not, ML players will probably not have that same respect and admiration for a guy who didn’t spend their time “in the bunkers” of pro ball.
What happens when the roster isn’t quite as talented?
Teams need managers who can make good decisions.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
When the roster isn’t quite as talented, the 162 game season eventually shows that to be true and it misses the playoffs by more games than a great “in-game manager” would have added to it’s win total. See: the 2011 Pirates
There’s a difference in a roster not being as talented and a team overperforming.
The Pirates had no business being in first place for as long as they were. They weren’t in first because of their manager, so to use them as the example here is faulty.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have a team that is an example of a manger being such an in-game tactician that he probably added more than 3 wins to his teams win total?
Of course, you would prefer to have a guy who made all the right moves and also kept team morale high enough that all 25 guys were able to play to their full potential. Heck, it would be really nice if he had a PhD is Sports Psychology or something. But even with all those things combined, the teams with the most talent will rise to the top by game 162.
Sabermetrics are on my side from what I’ve read. The difference between mathematically perfect in-game decisions and Fredi Gonzalez (or similar) is only 10-20 runs per season, which is 1-2 wins. And since we know baseball doesn’t happen in a vacuum, it’s possible with that small of a margin that Fredi has actually outperformed said “perfect” manager over the course of a one season sample.
No, but I can think of at least 3 games where Fredi’s decisions directly led to a loss.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
And yet the
“perfect decision” in those situation was not a 100% certainty. Also you have to allow for a couple times where “dumb luck” (or gut instinct depending on your side) will result in the Braves winning a game that they would have lost with the right decision.
probably because those are a lot easier for you to pinpoint...
and ones where his decisions led to a win you can say were due to the player not Fredi. That’s a pretty easy game to play there justin that’s not exactly accurate.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Aug 25, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’ve given Fredi credit in the OTs when credit is due.
I think that the failures are easier for me to remember because they happened more frequently than the successes. The common and easisest examples of bad decision after bad decision is the constant bunting, the constant hit and runs, the constant batting of Alex Gonzalez #2 and the constant use of Scott Proctor in high-leverage situations.
Granted, none of those things seem to be happening as frequently these days – maybe Fredi is just a slow learner and has finally had an epiphony.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
But you don't know it cost us three games...
…if we hadn’t have bunted we might have made outs. If we hadn’t have used Proctor, the other pitcher might have sucked or we might have lost the next game because our bullpen was burnt out except for Proctor. So saying that I know three games we lost because of his decisions is deceptive—-you cannot know for certain that we would have won otherwise.
It’s the process, not the results. Making bad decisions and them succeeding does not then make them good decisions.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
I don't understand
There is no such thing as ‘good’ or ‘bad’, it is all relative. Therefore, a move proposed without knowing the results can appear to be a ‘bad’ move, however it could succeed making it a ‘good’ move. Unless success now no longer equals ‘good’ decision in the baseball world?
I obviously generalized here as there are always situations where you succeed but it comes at a high price, but success is success and winning is winning. I think winning is good.
by atlbravosfan on Aug 26, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s just not correct. If you’re playing BlackJack and you hit on 15 against a 5, you might win. Because you won, it does not make your decision correct. It’s going against the odds. There are times when it works, and the only way to say the decision was the “correct” decision is if you knew what was coming in the first place. Otherwise, it’s a decision with a successful result but made with odds in the other direction.
For example, Fredi could pitch Linebrink in the ninth inning of a game in which the Braves are leading by one instead of using Kimbrel. He strikes out the side and the Braves win. Despite it being a successful move, it was not the correct decision to make. The process means more than the results.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
Even more extreme
Let’s say that the Braves have the bases loaded, down 2 runs, bottom of the 9th, 2 outs. We have Ross, Hinske, Conrad and Constanza on the bench.
Chipper Jones is coming up to bat. But wait, Fredi starts to get a feeling. He calls Chipper back to the dugout and pinch-hits for him – even though Chipper has 3 hits in the game already. But, Fredi doesn’t use any of his bench players. He calls on a certain Thomas Hanson to pinch hit for Chipper Jones.
Tommy goes up to bat and smartly hits a double down the LF line, scoring 3 runs and winning the game for the Braves.
Was that a smart move? Was it the right decision? No and HELL NO.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that move is quite extreme
so much as to make it laughable. It isn’t even a realistic scenario and I don’t think any manager in the history of the game had any kind of ‘feeling’ like that. And as someone said earlier about the manager who would sac bunt with Pujols, the manager who would pull Chipper in that situation, let alone what he had done in that game up to that point, would be fired before Chipper could even get back to the dugout.
Still, though, you can’t argue with results. From a pure results stand point, there is nothing negative about the decision to PH Hanson if he delivers the game winning knock. I obviously see your argument about the lunacy of making such a move, but if we won the game, I’m not going to be mad about it. It’s kind of like putting a pitcher in LF for one AB so you don’t burn two lefties in the BP. If the move works, awesome, I’m glad. If it doesn’t, I’m going to be very pissed that such a dumbass risk was taken.
by atlbravosfan on Aug 26, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I see what you're getting at, but it's more like this IMO...
Hitting on a 15 and getting a 5 could be pure luck. However, it could also be that the player has a certain piece of knowledge that makes that move seem more obvious or likely. Say, for instance, the player was counting cards and he knew the statistical likelihood of such an event occurring, it might not seem like such a bad idea anymore. It would seem more like a good idea, to him at least. To someone walking up to the table, not possessing that piece of knowledge, he seems pretty crazy to be doing something like that. Really though, baseball is a lot more complex than card games, I’m sure you would agree.
When managers do things, make certain in game moves, it isn’t always based on numbers or what ‘makes sense’ to an outsider. Thinking that every move that someone should make can be broken down statistically and that if they go against the grain they are making a bad move is to insinuate that the manager of the Braves knows absolutely nothing more about his team than we do from the outside.
Perhaps a certain player had a certain conversation with Fredi about how he was feeling that day, maybe that he got his timing back or that he was feeling exceptionally lifted for whatever reason. Even if playing that guy in a certain situation is a bad idea, statistically speaking, perhaps the manager knows something we don’t about what will transpire.
I’m not saying that any manager, let alone Fredi G, is omniscent or anything, I’m just saying that there is a lot that goes into managing a ball club at the MLB level. Things in-game, things in-season, everything is connected and we don’t see every single interaction that the coaching staff has with the players.
by atlbravosfan on Aug 26, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No it doesn't.
And I never said it did. I just said he cannot possibly know for certain that Fredi’s tactical decisions had cost us three games. Over the long haul, better tactical decisions will lead to winning more games than worse tactical decisions. That is obvious.
hindsight (a/k/a, ex post facto logic) is also very helpful when offering criticism of others’ decisons.
You are right. If only we had criticized his moves when he made them – or even before he made them, because we knew he was going to make them…
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This...
is exactly how I feel.
"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti
Freddie Freeman should not have bunted.
I didn’t vote, the poll isn’t fair. Bunting is overated. Bunting leads to fewer runs scored.
Read the comments, is Fredi perfect? Hell no. Does he sometimes make you scratch your head and be like WTF? Hell ya. But, what manager in baseball makes all the right moves at the right times? None. Most people in MLB believe that Gardner of Twins is best manager in the game. But, I am sure that if you watch all of their games, you people that bitch on Fredi about every little thing, would be bitching and moaning at Gardner or whoever is in the Braves dugout. I’m not saying you can’t complain about what Fredi is doing, cause you have all the right to do that, and even sometimes I question what he is doing. But, no manager is perfect, and I feel Fredi is a good manager for the Atlanta Braves.
braves#1
by rockybull on Aug 25, 2011 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with this statement. Fredi IS a good manager for the Atlanta Braves – simply because we are going to win with our talent alone. Fredi could be a great manager if he just knew his limits. His tendency to attempt to overmanage games is not one of his strengths. So long as he takes a back seat to the auto-pilot that this team is capable of and remains the “fatherly figure” style of coach, he will do well.
The more he tries to affect the actual game-play, the worse he looks. In other words, Fredi, let the players play. Keep your impact on the actual game to a minimum. Earn your paycheck during practice sessions and off-days.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, I know its this blogs job to point out our coach's faults
but this is getting out of hand. We are leading by a wide margin in the WC and not exactly out of the NL East pennant. I think we all know there are things we wish we could change about Fredi’s management during a game, but facts are still facts. At least he isn’t Tony LaRussa who has been booed by his home fans for decisions about pitching and double switching as well as having a divided locker room of players who like him or hate him. I am perfectly happy with a mediocre Fredi that controversial bunting situation decisions, pitching decisions that are relatively good, and lets his players play and not interfere too much.
…and lets his players play and not interfere too much.
What Fredi Gonzalez are you watching?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The one that relatively stays out of the way.
When a guy is producing he gets to produce. Thats why Freeman was allowed to swing away instead of bunt. He interferes when you arent producing, moving you in the line up or in Heywards case bringing up a guy to compete with you to maybe get his swing back in order. If thats your only contention to my point then fine, if I conceded that one thing will you agree with the rest???? Fredi is a lot better then many coaches around the league. He doesn’t effect the number of games we have won or lost by that much, the guys on the field do that, whereas a coach like LaRussa has lost the Cardinals A LOT of games because of his decision making with his bullpen and player switches mid-game, or as the Card’s blog calls it, “his precious double switches.”
the very things that you are saying LaRussa does, Fredi does too.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 25, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Fredi...
…has divided the locker room???? That’s news to me.
whereas a coach like LaRussa has lost the Cardinals A LOT of games because of his decision making with his bullpen and player switches mid-game, or as the Card’s blog calls it, "his precious double switches."
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Aug 26, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
And in his first post...
…he mentioned the divided locker room.
Thanks for the Defense cavebird
A divided locker room is VERY bad, which is one of the reasons people think LaRussa isn’t getting a new contract next year. You know i hear that Fredi has possibly lost us 3-5 games with his decisions (for the sake of the Fredi haters I’ll be generous and say 6), whereas LaRussa has lost somwhere between 18-20 games this season for terrible bullpen usage (putting in Batista or Franklin in high leverage situations) and silly double switches that ignore hitting streaks and Batting Average.
Fredi has been pretty good
about knowing when to bring out starters and uses our bullpen ok. I mean you can’t put O’Ventbrel out every game or their arms would fall off. Also, Fredi isn’t so into the double switch unless its an obvious one, like moving Constanza in for Heyward or vice versa. Way to continue to try and make points without giving any backup to what you are saying and not comment on the general point of my post, which to remind you was I prefer Fredi’s mediocrity to a lot of other coaches and cited LaRussa.
Outs are really valuable. That’s a really important lesson in baseball that is so overlooked.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
this
Sabermetrics is your friend.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Aug 26, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I must have been living life and somehow missed this one.
From reading through it all – glad I did.
~ "The NL - where our pitchers do more than just play with their balls." ~
Well we had gone a whole two days without a Heyward/Constanza, Gonzalez/Pastornicky, McLouth/Schafer, Teixeira trade controversy, so it was time for this again.
by Ivan the Great on Aug 26, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
The initial argument here is incredibly silly. The debate afterwards has more merit than most of the other things debated on a regular basis.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
I don't want to read everything
I can only assume that you don’t know anything about baseball. Bunting there is awful, and i’d wager that bunting a runner into scoring position is almost always a bad move unless its a pitcher up to bat. Why give away free outs? And really? Bunting Pujols? This just hurt my head.
Hey OP
If you an hero can you stream it? I see you trollin’. Bunting with Albert Pujols…HAHAHAHAHA sucka you crazy!
by HI State of Mind on Aug 26, 2011 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The derp is strong in this one.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Freddie
does not seem like a bunter to me. granted it is his first full season byt I’ve never seen him bunt. some people just do not bunt and the poll numbers prove this way of thinking – end of story
by Butcher da Braves Fan on Aug 28, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
Sorry man
I’ll get on fixing the issues you raised.
Carrying on Bobby's Legacy!
Agree and Disagree
I agree that Fredi’s decision making on when to bunt and not to bunt has been mind boggling this season. But I let Freddie swing away there.
- ChillyMutt
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