Braves Hitters Live And Die By The Count
by Jacob Peterson on Jul 20, 2011 3:20 PM EDT
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PrintOkay, so all hitters live and die by the count. No one is going to be surprised when I tell them that the Braves' hitters do much better after reaching a 2-0 count than they do after reaching an 0-2 count. But perhaps these facts will surprise you:
- The Braves have hit .306 / .526 / .589 in 580 PAs after getting to a 2-0 count this year. That 1.115 OPS is the best mark in MLB. The MLB averages after a 2-0 count are .285 / .506 / .473 (.979 OPS).
- On the other hand, the Braves have hit only .132 / .163 / .180 in 686 PAs after getting to an 0-2 count. That .343 OPS is the worst in MLB. The MLB averages after an 0-2 count are .168 / .196 / .247 (.444 OPS).
When they get ahead in the count 2-0, the Braves have perhaps the best offense in baseball. When they get behind in the count 0-2, they have perhaps the worst offense in baseball. They're in the middle of the pack after a 1-1 count as well as when they put the ball in play on one of the first two pitches.
So it seems to be particularly important for Braves hitters to get ahead in the count, even more so than it is for other teams. Why is this? I have some theories, but they'll have to wait for another post.
So which Braves hitters have been best at getting to these advantageous 2-0 counts, and which have been worst at avoiding harmful 0-2 counts? The answer is after the jump.
The chart below shows the count breakdown for each of the Braves' 10 most-used hitters. It shows the number and percentage of 2-0 counts, the number and percentage of 0-2 counts, and the ratio of 2-0 counts to 0-2 counts. For this ratio, higher is better (more 2-0 counts). The league averages for are in the last row of the table.
| Player | PA | 2-0 PA | 0-2 PA | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Nate McLouth | 283 | 21% | 59 | 14% | 40 | 1.48 |
| Brian McCann | 349 | 19% | 67 | 14% | 49 | 1.37 |
| Chipper Jones | 329 | 16% | 53 | 13% | 42 | 1.26 |
| Eric Hinske | 183 | 25% | 45 | 21% | 38 | 1.18 |
| Jason Heyward | 273 | 18% | 49 | 16% | 43 | 1.13 |
| Freddie Freeman | 375 | 16% | 60 | 18% | 68 | 0.88 |
| Dan Uggla | 397 | 15% | 58 | 17% | 69 | 0.84 |
| Martin Prado | 304 | 15% | 46 | 20% | 61 | 0.75 |
| Jordan Schafer | 210 | 13% | 28 | 22% | 47 | 0.60 |
| Alex Gonzalez | 376 | 11% | 43 | 23% | 86 | 0.50 |
| MLB Averages | 14% | 19% | 0.77 |
As you can see, many Braves players have done an excellent job of working the count to their favor, led by Nate McLouth, who has been much better than Braves fans have given him credit for. In fact, 7 of the 10 regulars have above average ratios, and Prado's ratio is just slightly below average. Even Dan Uggla, who has struggled mightily in other areas, has good marks here.
The players who are holding the Braves back with their poor approaches are pretty clear: Jordan Schafer and Alex Gonzalez. They are the only two to see fewer 2-0 counts than average and also have the two highest proportions of 0-2 counts. Gonzalez's 0.50 ratio is likely one of the lowest in baseball among regular players.
Gonzalez and Schafer also have particularly terrible numbers after reaching an 0-2 count: a .199 OPS for Sea Bass and a .236 OPS for Schafer. (Remember, the average OPS in that spot is .444.) These troubles may be just a small-sample-size fluke, but they have only aggravated the plate discipline problems.
Chipper Jones and Jason Heyward also have awful numbers in this split (.220 OPS for Chipper, .163 for Heyward), but at least they don't get into that situation nearly as often. Both of these guys also have excelled after getting ahead 2-0 (1.337 OPS for Chipper, 1.343 OPS for Heyward), something they do quite often.
I'd love to see the Braves bring in players with better plate discipline to take away some of Schafer's and Gonzalez's at-bats. I don't necessarily want to replace them altogether--both players have substantial defensive value--but it would be nice to at least have viable offensive alternatives. Right now, it is highly doubtful that their defensive prowess is making up for their offensive shortcomings.
Besides, I'm honestly just sick of watching terrible at-bats. I wish that Fredi and the rest of Braves management were sick of it, too.
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Im interested to know what are Schafer and Gonzalez numbers when getting a 2-0 count in their favor?
In 2011
Schafer: .300/.500/.500
Gonzalez: .233/.465/.367
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Wait correction
The previous numbers are the results of ABs after 2-0 counts. On the pitch on a 2-0 count, the following:
Schafer: .000/.000/.000
Gonzalez: .333/.333/.333
The scary thing? The times a 2-0 had actually occurred for these guys:
Schafer: 1
Gonzalez: 3
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Actually ignore the second part of my comment
They’ve both had many more 2-0 counts than that, I just misinterpreted it.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Wow. Great work
That Heyward guy is pretty good.
by another simpsons avatar on Jul 20, 2011 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
This is starting to border on State-run propaganda...
We get it. Jordan Schafer shouldn’t bat leadoff, and Sea Bass shouldn’t hit in the 2-hole. This also proves that opposing pitchers are pitching around Nate McLouth to get to the pitcher…the fact that this is more exxagerated than Mac and Chipper should make this obvious.
Maybe enough of these “informative” pieces will come out before the trade dealine to rile up enough support (as if its sourced from here) to demand either 1) a trade for a proven legitimate leadoff hitter, or 2) another lineup construction designed to maximize OBP in the leadoff spots.
Shit…when are the Guy Fawkes masks coming in the mail??
what are you Schafer PR guy?
Or Fredi Gonzalez cousin or something. Damn what did you want him to say, that Schafer and Gonzalez just feel like they’re doing so much more than the stats indicate. All this showed is that Schafer and Gonzalez have horrible plate discipline.
I’m not the Schafer PR guy. While I like our chances of scoring better when Schafer is standing on 1st base than pretty much anyone else…its the getting on 1st base that is a problem. I know its a SSS, but he’s performed much better at this with Martin Prado back in the lineup. The only thing I’ve argued in his favor is that being more or less a rookie (in terms of how many PAs he’s had) he needs more PAs…but his glove is too useful in the bigs to have those happen in AAA.
I wasn’t trying to be beligerent, it was just some sarcasm. This has some useful information whereas yesterday’s thread was just an orchestrated Fredi-hate session. Once again, just an opinion…
Hes a defensive replacement and pinch runner
thats it, now hes forgotten how to bunt for hits. He cant walk, he’s always in bad counts, there is nothing good about him as a hitter, yet fans want to send Jason Heyward to AAA. Its just dumb logic that people have on here
He can walk (as he’s done recently hitting in front of Odarp), just not to the point of raising his OBP into a more respectable range.
Sending Heyward to AAA should be a test of either insanity or a low IQ. Most likely the same people who wanted to send Uggla to AAA. The dude is slumping, he can do it…let him figure it out!
On Heyward: I agree, but I am starting to worry a little bit about his durability. As far as I know the guy hasn’t been 100% for even a week of the season and that is no good.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
So this is the first time it has ever happened? And every time before it led to missing a couple of games?
I’m not saying it is, but the fact that it is always something means that he is either totally unlucky (perhaps we should consider that God misses his promised son) or that he is more injury prone than most.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Last year he severely injured his thumb because of his insistence to slide head-first.
Before this season, people were calling JJ injury prone as well…
I’m not saying that dropping the title “injury prone” has any intrinsic value, but you have to admit that he has been out a lot and sometimes for injuries that cannot be defined like phantom shoulder injuries, a FB to the foot- which I know hurts for a personal fact, I’m not criticizing him getting injured, I’m just wondering why he is constantly getting derailed for injured while Brian McCann can take a foul tip off the shoulder and be fine. It probably isn’t fair, but we can talk about the validity of the claim once he strings together a primarily healthy season.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
He wrecked his thumb sliding into a base, and I don’t think he immediately recovered from that collision with McLouth in Arizona last year either.
I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly…its the Mike Hampton effect.
He should have run through McLouth like HS football players through a paper banner. How in the world does Heyward end up with the serious injury in that scenario?
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I question his durability some, but I think it might be his toughness might be an equal problem. How many players are 100% after the first couple weeks of the season? Almost every player has aches and pains, but Heyward hasn’t learned to play through them and make adjustments. Hopefully it comes with time.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry.
**but I think his toughness might be an equal problem
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Add to this...
I think still being 21, he’s in the yes-sir/no-sir phase where he’ll take the advice of others to literally and cautiously.
I definitely get that sense from him and I love him for it. But he did go out and say that he doesn’t want to come back playing at 80% (or whatever the number was) so I guess I want to know who told him that is how you handle a marathon season like the one in baseball.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Aside from his physical talents and being able to play baseball for a living, I don’t envy his position. He’s under a tremendous amount of pressure at such a young age (as you mentioned), and he’s dealing with injuries that none of us truly know the extent of. I’m sure team doctors weren’t thrilled when Chipper made the comments about playing below 100%. He’s damned with either decision.
I’m just as concerned as everyone else is, but I have faith that he’ll be the player we expect him to be by the end of the year. We all know what he’s capable of. He needs to get healthy and make some adjustment at the plate, and hopefully he’ll make all of us feel like mastermike for doubting him.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear that you don’t like the presentation, but what was said that is wrong? Neither of the guys gets on base 30% of the time. That isn’t good at all and totally unacceptable in a table setter role.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Good, my bad because I missed it but I see above where you said it was sarcasm so my apologies.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
No, I would actually take 8 McLouths in the lineup everyday, but we have to figure a way to have each one bat before a pitcher in the lineup so they can all get on base
by Choppa2Chippa on Jul 20, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I would actually take 8 McLouths in the lineup everyday,
You forgot your sarcasm font
"Venters is throwing circus pitches up there. It’s a circus. I was like, what the hell did he just throw me?" - Hunter Pence
But he wasn't being sarcastic
that’s a true and well reasoned statement
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I GOT IT!!
Pitch McLouth and double-switch every inning!
he has a hell of a changeup
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
Okay, I guess the next step...
…would be to compare these figures with those of most-mentioned possible trade candidates. I started to try this myself, but the data I have doesn’t seem to be consistent with that above, so I would only confuse the issue by continuing.
"Just take out the whole Tim McCarver part of the broadcast and boom, the director has freed up a whopping 45 minutes of airtime." - Rob Iracane of Yahoo! Sports, 7/13/11
Batting 8th is obviously working in McLouth's favor
But if the question is, “Why are the results so extreme when getting into favorable/unfavorable counts?” then we’ve already answered the question. Our worst hitters-Schafer, Gonzalez-very often get into 0-2 counts and very seldom get into 2-0 counts. Our better hitters are very seldom reaching 0-2 counts.
It’s a complicated method of selection bias.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Excellent post
See, this is something I would expect the Braves coaches to at least notice. No advanced saber statistics for Fredi to get a migraine while misinterpreting.
Good to see another piece by you Jacob...
I don’t think the poor results for Schafer and Gonzalez aren’t a fluke. I think the stats above and Gonzo and Schafer’s struggles in the 0-2 count is a function of their “defensive swing” mentality. We have all seen Gonzalez and Schafer in battles that lead to 2, 3, 4 foul balls (in fact, I remember a piece that you did at some point referencing Gonzo’s plate “battles”). This is good, in theory. But we have seen Martin Prado do the same thing. What are the differences in approach though?
The thing is that Martin Prado expands his strike zone and has the hands and swing to defend it while remaining productive. When Gonzalez and Schafer are in the same spot they seem mostly only capable of staying their execution rather than turning it into production. To me this is a combination of approach and ability.
Also, in Schafer’s defense, the guy is asked to bunt so often that many times he really begins his AB already down 0-1, which exacerbates his already poor plate discipline.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Plus he already said
leading off, he ALWAYS takes a strike, which obviously would put him at a deficit if the pitchers know.
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
Which is a stupid approach for a player with poor plate discipline, lead-off or otherwise. It is a microcosm of giving away outs.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Great Post
I must say tho personally, when Marteeen has an 0-2 count, i’m just as confident as when he has a 2-0 count. Everyone else…. Not so much. I feel like Prado always gets the bat on the ball
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Jul 20, 2011 4:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
thats how i feel
when Hudson is at bat :P
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
I feel like these statistics mesh very well with my eye test/recall of the fact that this team has some guys that can really crush a ball when they know the pitcher needs to throw a strike.
Between Heyward, McCann, Freeman, Uggy Bear, Ross, and Diesel, you really, really don’t want to fall behind.
At the same time, we have a lot of approaches that don’t do too well with the “defensive swing to make contact with two strikes” situation, too, so the 0-2 stats are pretty unsurprising as well. (Freeman, Heyward, Hinske, Schafer, and Sea Bass are all prone to really ineffective attempts at defensive swings. They should learn from Prado.)
All should learn from Odarp!
by CowboyCurtis on Jul 20, 2011 4:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cowboys have smart phones?
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I got to keep up with "Van Gundy!"
I hate that commercial.
by CowboyCurtis on Jul 20, 2011 4:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ajcbraves David O’Brien
Sounds as if the #Braves could be close to making a deal for a RH bat
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
oh wow...sorry for the double post
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling that we are going to be really disappointed. If it is Josh Willingham I’m going to burn this mother down.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Yeah, that would be pretty annoying. We basically have a better Willingham in Hinske, though he bats left-handed.
Could be worse: FUGA, Frenchy, Ryan Church, Raul Mondesi, etc.
by Ivan the Great on Jul 20, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
if they bring back frenchy i'm going on a killing spree
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn
I’d hate to see what you would do if it’s Reed Johnson
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I almost know we are. But then unless it is the second coming of Babe Ruth, we’ll be dissapointed.
"Baseball is the only place in life where a sacrifice is really appreciated."
Nah. We have a lot of resources in the form of prospects so there is no deal that we can’t pay for. Whether we want to pay handsomely for a package is the real question. But there are truly lots of deals that would be at the least acceptable to me. Willingham, however, is nowhere on that list.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
This
Out of all the options, Willingham is the one I wouldn’t want, period. We could’ve had a similar player to Willingham for cheaper already, had the team offered Matt Diaz a low ball deal that he would have willingly accepted.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The one thing I’m still keeping in mind is that Wren has a tendency to pull deals out of nowhere. I’m hoping that in lieu of subpar options I don’t care about, he does it again and gets someone no one has considered that actually fits decently well.
by Ivan the Great on Jul 20, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Scott just tweeted this little nugget
Multiple people have now tweeted that Peter Gammons said on the radio a few days ago the #Braves were preparing a 3-for-1 deal for Pence…
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
that deal
was Minor/Simmons/Betanchourt
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
I wouldn't be upset about that
Still hold on to “The Big 3” and get a RH bat you control for 2 years.
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
I would throw in another top prospect to that and still be thrilled if we got the deal.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
what do you mean by top?
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean another good prospect. Maybe a high-ceiling guy in the low minors
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
No way
I think Minor, Simmons, Betanchourt is more than enough
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
agreed
i wouldn’t give up anything else, maybe a low low prospect
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose. But if they asked FW to sweeten the pot a little bit I wouldn’t mind adding a little something something to it. But as I’ve said before, I am not very good at the “name that deal” game.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Two interesting things...
1) Houston isn’t asking for a ML ready OFer in return
2) Minor would be their 3rd LH starting pitcher…in a division with RH mashers
asking for more
not proven
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
why would the #1 be important?
Simmons is a SS
- they are looking to trade wandy
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
people are suggesting spruill skipping his start as a hint that he is being dealt
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh hell yes. Please FW, do it. He is a star and can be a franchise player for us. Plus he and Freddie Freeman can trade strategies for looking like a creepy child molester.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
i don't understand us going after pence
he hasn’t hit lefties as well as righties this year…and our problem is hitting left handed pitching.
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Our problem
has been hitting in general, with an emphasis on left handed pitching
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
Wren traded for Ankiel last year….so not a lot of his deals make sense on the surface
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
This rules out Beltran since he is a switch-hitter. Ryan Ludwick, Josh Willingham and Hunter Pence are probably the most likely possibilities.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Beltran should never have been considered in the first place in my opinion.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I like him better than Ludwick and Willingham, but not at the price we would have to pay.
BTW, this also eliminates Bourn since he hits LH.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Just speculating if it is Houston, they have a couple decent righty bullpen arms with Mark Melancon and Wilton Lopez. I have no idea what they would cost in addition to Pence though. There may be better options (considering finances and prospects) elsewhere including our DL and AAA. I really like the idea of using Teheran/Viz/Delgado out of the pen after September call-ups.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea Viz would be a perfect in-system bullpen upgrade.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Agreed and it’s also beneficial because it helps keep his innings down.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
ajcbraves David O’Brien
Sounds as if the #Braves could be close to making a deal for a RH bat
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 4:47 PM EDT reply actions
You know. I almost hope we do make a huge deal just to see the Phillies cash out their farm system to try to keep up.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
i know it isn't popular
but i still want BJ Upton
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It's posts such as these, which make me enthusiastic about being a member of such a great site
This is nothing short of a great, informative article.
I think I can speak for many of the members here, when i say, “thank you.”
cottcoleman55 Scott Coleman
Same here. Totally serious. RT: “@CapitolAvenue If the Braves acquire Francoeur I’m done blogging about them.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:08 PM EDT reply actions
Angsty fellow inne?
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta-braves/2011/7/20/2285438/atlanta-braves-trade-rumors-braves-closing-in-on-deal
Looks like Spruill’s rotation spot is being skipped tonight. He could be on the move.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe not. DOB tweets:
#Braves high-A pitcher Zeke Spruill was scratched because of a minor injury, not a DL situation
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
DOB clarifies:
To clarify, #Braves high-A pitcher Spruill not injured, just skipping start because of mounting innings total
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill Shanks adds on
RHP Zeke Sprull is missing the start tonight for Lynchburg with a SORE RIGHT HIP. Hopefully, he’ll miss only one start. No trade.
more shanks
The information on Spruill came from a member of the Braves front office. That’s what they are saying. Sore hip.
My hip
is sore because I’m packing
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we get
George Costanza to talk to the Astros owners
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions
Only if we buy him a few choice sweaters.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
He likes velvet
You know, if it were socially acceptable……
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
costanza is in the building!!
i smell calzone
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we can switch to cotton uniforms…
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Cotton uniforms
Imagine playing a game and you’re five degrees cooler than the other team.
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Awww
Look at the cute little bastard
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe they are just waiting for the Houston game to end
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
Our luck it will be like a 23 inning game that doesn’t end until late tonight
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
The thought of getting an impact bat is really thrilling. But let’s wait and see before we get excited. But Pence is the best guy available for the club this year and perfect for an extension after next year’s contract off-load. Hopefully FW sees this too and is willing to pay for it.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Jacob, I respect you. I love your work.
I fell like this post was intentionally put out to show how worthless Schafer is. Talking about plate disciple, can you possibly provide the total number of pitches seen per player per at bat?
Ur point is well articulated but on the topic of schafer, I will be here to say I told you so. Just wait.
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
Jordan Schafer = Jean Valjean. He sucked before, so he will always suck…
(You seem to be a theater guy so maybe you’ll get the Les Mis reference)
I get the reference... I don't like it... I'm taking away your birthday.
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jul 21, 2011 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Schafer is at 3.85. Uggla is at 3.83 Gonzo is at 3.52, Martin Prado is 3.74
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
But you should also consider walk and k rates to give this stat meaning. Also, being barely able to foul off a pitch doesn’t really improve your AB. I could even make a strong argument that it hurts your approach and helps the pitcher.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I understand what you're saying... BUT... and I will defend this to my death...
Among the other important attributes of a leadoff hitter (that Jordan currently lacks) the ability for a batter to make a pitcher throw more pitches is incredibly important… Especially in this day and age of sabermetrics and inning/pitch counts, a leadoff guy (who sees more ABs in a game/year) who can make a pitcher throw alot of pitches is on the right track and has value at the top of the lineup.
YES, he lacks in OBP and AVG… but his BB rate is respectable and he’s improving day by day. Measurable improvements in alot of areas. Especially w/ Prado behind him.
Thoughts?
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jul 21, 2011 7:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Dioner Navarro
just hit the first splash HR by a visitor at At&t Park since you know who
"You come at the king, you best not miss."
by a hooter's baby on Jul 20, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions
Consecutive headlines on MLB Trade Rumors...
“Braves May Be Nearing Deal For Bat” and “Royals Close To Trading Wilson Betemit”. Coincidence? Oy vey.
by MississippiBrave on Jul 20, 2011 5:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
To the Tigers.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jul 20, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Betemit traded to Tigers according to Morosi
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
Go on….
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Astros game is over. And our boy Hunter Pence walked 3 times with 1 hit and 1 run scored. Let’s see what happens shall we?
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Heyward's back in the lineup.
whew
"Baseball is the only place in life where a sacrifice is really appreciated."
Sweet.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Good news. Hopefully he doesn’t immediately get hurt again.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I posted this in another thread, thought I was posting it here
Jon Morosi- fox sports National Baseball writer
#Braves are interested in Jonny Gomes as a RH hitter, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and I. #Reds
He’ll be a FA at the end of the year
.281/.377/.510 career vs LHP
.340/.446/.547 this season vs LHP
.213/.339/.408 overall this season.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jul 20, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
All of these...
better than our current OFers…
i couldnt stand watching him
his little helmet thing before every pitch annoys me
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
We need a Trade Watch thread.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Jul 20, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ask and ye shall receive.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Possible platoon/bench option. I wouldn’t want to see another low .200’s bat in our lineup.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah...
This is good, wouldn’t have to give more than a C+ prospect or so for a 2-month rental of Gomes
the only thing that bothers me about Gomes is that he can't play CF
and he is 0-14 pinch hitting this year w 10 k’s
and his helmet thing
i swear a cringe every time
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
I agree this isn’t a bad deal if the price is right, but I don’t want Gomes in the line-up unless it’s against a lefty.
by ducheneaux13 on Jul 20, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
please no jonny gomes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jul 20, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions
It's just a shame we have to give up prospects for a RH OF bench bat
when we had a great one we let go of
Here is a trade watch fanpost so we don’t ruin this thread:
http://www.talkingchop.com/2011/7/20/2285588/trade-watch-2011
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Someone has to wHip y’all into shape http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHYYkZpZGjo&feature=related
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Rays Ready To Move B.J. Upton?
The perception among teams is that the Rays are ready to move center fielder B.J. Upton now, writes ESPN’s Buster Olney. Olney believes the Rays “will listen to just about every trade proposal thrown their way” in general. He’s of the opinion that the team’s front office faces limited backlash, since attendance is already poor.
Upton, 26, is hitting .237/.319/.411 on the season and is due another raise on this year’s $4.825MM salary in 2012 before hitting free agency. He slugged .508 as a 22-year-old in 2007, but .401 in 534 games since. Plus defense allows Upton to remain a valuable player, but there is a sense that he hasn’t lived up to his potential. Olney imagines the Nationals and Phillies might be potential fits.
We wrote about James Shields’ potential availability earlier today. Olney says Johnny Damon and Casey Kotchman would also make strong trade chips. The Rays are currently 5.5 games back in the wild card, though their schedule eases up after Thursday’s game with the Yankees.
In related Rays news, frustration with Tropicana Field is boiling over, and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports thinks MLB should help finance a new stadium.
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
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