In all honesty, is it time to call up Pastornicky?

I don't think so.

This is the first year in which Pastornicky has shown much upside with his bat, after several pretty mediocre seasons. At this point, I would trust Alex to snap out of it and give Tyler at least the rest of the year to show that his improvement is sustainable.

by swainzy on Jul 11, 2011 12:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

Even if Alex snaps out, he’s a pretty terrible hitter.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

If he can get his obp up to even just .300, combined with his defense I think it would justify keeping Pastornicky down another half-season.

by swainzy on Jul 11, 2011 12:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

That would be one of the highest OBPs of his career.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Well...not quite.

2007: .325
2005: .319
2003: .313
1999: .308
2001: .303
If he were to finish with an obp of .300, it would fall exactly in the median for his career.

by swainzy on Jul 11, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions

He’s been playing for 13 seasons. A .300 OBP would be the 6th highest of his career – so, one of the highest.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions

It’s more like 11, counting this year, since his 98 PAs in 1998 and 172 PAs in 2002 aren’t really considered full seasons. But I would prefer not to argue over semantics, so let’s just say that an OBP of .300 is something Alex has done multiple times in the past and is a mark he can reach this year if he gets back on track.

by swainzy on Jul 11, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

He hasn’t done it since 2007, which was his best offensive year of his career.

Let’s just say I wouldn’t hold my breath on it happening. The man has 14 BBs in 355 PAs so far this season, to go along with 80 Ks.

He is not going to OBP near .300.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree that it’s not likely, but he was above .300 as recently as last month, so I think it’s within the realm of possibility.

by swainzy on Jul 11, 2011 11:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

i think he’s just making better contact along with developing a little more gap power. If he could perform like this in the bigs that would be a huge asset. Perfect #2 hitter IMO.

by drumzalicious on Jul 11, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not against it. I have no idea how Pastornicky is on defense but he could add something on offense, and your right he’s not going to have that good of numbers in Atlanta but he really couldn’t be any worse then Gonzalez has been the last month and a half.

The best option that I can think of is to disable Gonzalez on Wednesday. Call up Pastornicky and give him 15 days to show what he has. If he performs well then you bring Gonzalez off the DL and try to trade him before the deadline. If he doesn’t do well then you send him down and Gonzalez goes back to playing.

by jack dein on Jul 11, 2011 12:09 AM EDT reply actions

From what I’ve read, he’s an average-slightly above average defensive SS. Definitely a couple steps down from A-Gonz in that department.

"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.

by TurnerTheBurner on Jul 11, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions

I think this is to numbers driven

Gonzalez is a rock, a solid and reliable force in our infield.. Agonz and Freeman anchor that..

Drop a rookie at short stop right now and I worry about what could happen

by willlinn on Jul 11, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Next year.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Jul 11, 2011 12:16 AM EDT reply actions

I voted no, but not because I don’t think we need a change at SS. I obviously do.

I just don’t think Tyler is ready yet.

I’m on the JJ Hardy train.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 12:19 AM EDT reply actions

what teams are going to need SS next year?

I wonder what the demand for SS will be in the market. The unfortunate thing is that it seems Hardy is playing himself into a multi year deal, and I think the Braves would like someone for a 1 year deal, and hope they can turn it over to Pastornicky in 2013.

by leedawg on Jul 11, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Completely speculating and borderline rosterbating, but if we could get Hardy and sign him long term, he would be a great replacement for Chipper.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions

intriguing

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter

by leedawg on Jul 11, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Hardy wants an extension with Baltimore.

I don’t think they’d want to trade him.

by Ivan the Great on Jul 11, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions

He won't move off of short

He was asked when his defense began going downhill last year to hopefully keep him on the field more, and he refused.

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Prado’s a better replacement for Chipper.

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by BravesRaleigh on Jul 11, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Not really.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

couldn't be much of a multiyear deal

Machado will be ready in a couple of years

Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.

by austinhb on Jul 11, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions

I want to derail that train

…and hire someone to exterminate all on board.

I absolutely do not want Hardy. Not at all. I’ve gone through the myriad of reasons on the board already, so I won’t do it again, but he’s an extremly poor fit for Atlanta this year as a trade target.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Yeah, why would we want a right-handed, decent power, plus-defending shortstop? Awful fit.

I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali

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by ATLandUNC on Jul 11, 2011 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Ugh

I’ve been through this in numerous threads. He’s not worth anywhere near what the Orioles will demand for him. He makes Chipper look like a “gamer”. His defense is average, and sometimes below average, now instead of exceptional. He displayed an incredibly poor attitude playing with one of the best players’ managers in the game last season, so bad that team shipped him off for ANYTHING they could get that had semblance of upside. Also, he’s going to cost more from July 31 on than A-Gone did for the whole season. Along with many, many more reasons, but that’s a quick summation.

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions

I don't know if his defense is average

He’s had a plus UZR every year prior to this one (and this year is not yet over). I’m obviously not the biggest fan of UZR, but his aggregate defensive ratings having him in the positive every year of his career, around a +4 shortstop. You add that to his bat, which is one of the best at SS given how diluted that talent field has become, and yes, he’s clearly worth having.

Now I don’t know what the Orioles will be asking for him, but it’s hard for me to imagine that it’s a huge sum, since two different teams managed to ship him out of town before he ever reached arbitration. Maybe they overvalue him, or maybe they’ll play hardball, in which case I’ll say no thanks. But in the abstract, I would have no problem with adding J.J. Hardy. It’s not like his $5.85 million salary is some staggering figure. We’re paying Derek Lowe $10 million more than that to be our fifth best starter.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Jul 11, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

we would be set if we could get Jose Reyes

by willlinn on Jul 11, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

We would want that, but that's not what Hardy is

so yes to both we’d want that and Hardy as an awful fit.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions

He’s everything I mentioned. Decent power for a shortstop (top tier this season), right handed, and he’s always been a plus defender. Argue away, regardless.

I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali

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by ATLandUNC on Jul 11, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

When healthy, yeah...

except as ben said, and I’ll take his word for it being able to see him on a more regular basis than either of us, those injuries have taken away the plus as a defender. UZR the argument away, but that stat sucks and means nothing. It’s “noise” according to it’s creator.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

You continually misquote...

First off, Cameron isn’t the creator. MGL is.

Second, you’re acting as if the UZR creator believes it’s the be-all, end-all of the defensive statistics. They don’t. They’re quite aware of the system’s inadequacies, but they aren’t inadequacies that can be quantified well or consistently, so it’s difficult to do anything about it.

What it is is better than anything else we have to go off of, except perhaps +/-.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Jul 11, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

No, MGL is who I'm quoting on that

or PWHjort’s quoting of MGL when asking him about the splits in Uggla (and Hanley Ramirez) over a 5 yr stretch home and away where both showed much better away than home.

And I didn’t say the creators believe it’s the end all be all of defensive stats. I think many of the more advanced savvy normal folk do though, and they cite it as though it is, even when the sample size is less than the creator say is needed.

And on your last comment, gonohrea is better than herpes too, doesn’t mean I want either.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions

MGL named it the “ultimate” zone rating. He might be aware of the myriad flaws in it, but till I gave up following the religious BS and debating with acolytes, he wasn’t honest about it. It would really be quite a task to just list all of them.

by Salty on Jul 11, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions

So your argument for his being a "not good" defender is then based on what?

Since you’re not looking at defensive metrics, it seems. I doubt you actually have seen enough of him while he’s been in Milwaukee, Minnesota, and Baltimore to have your own opinion.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Jul 11, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Is based on someone who has seen enough of him while in Milwaukee, Minnesota, and Baltimore

and defensive metrics are all flawed to the point of worthlessness to me.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

He was one of the best in Milwaukee

Its likely moot since he wants to stay in Baltimore.

by Salty on Jul 11, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Before his injury in Milwaukee

….he was the best. He’s never recovered that ability fully.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 12, 2011 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions

What are you basing it on?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Aggregate defensive ratings

UZR, DRS, and fan scouting reports. They average out, and every year prior to this, he’s been at least a +4 defensive shortstop. At worst, I’d say he’s average, with an above average bat.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Jul 11, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Cause combining flawed metrics in to one...

reduces the flaws, or exacerbates them?

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I think, looking a huge sample of several different metrics, with different approaches, should help. NONE of them, individually, has had him at worse than average prior to this year. I’m distrustful that the metrics are as accurate as they claim to be, and that they’re meaningful at all when looking at first basemen, but huge amounts of data point to him being better than average.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Jul 11, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

In the past...

as said, injuries have taken their toll.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions

I can tell you from watching him since 2008 at least 50 games per year

Hardy is great on plays in front of him and when he has enough time to build up speed to either side. Quick shots to either side anymore he just doesn’t react well to. His arm seems to go through multiple “dead arm” periods throughout the year, where he can make easy throws that he can wind up for, but he’s inaccurate and lacking power on quick throws or deep throws. The worst of all of that is that he knows he has the reputation of playing injured, so he attempts to play through little stuff rather than asking for a day off to rest, and he makes it even worse.

Last year, Ron Gardenhire went so far as to ask Hardy to move to 3B early in the season because of his reduced defensive ability and to get Nick Punto’s glove into the game. Hardy refused.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

You’re saying that he’s a radically changed player including a massive loss of arm strength and accuracy along with mobility?

Where can I find out about this request to move to 3rd and complaints about his defense?

Its pretty far-fetched, but to put Nick Punto at SS just makes it more fantastic.

by Salty on Jul 12, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Until you realize how much Gardy loves Punto

I heard about the request in the offseason on a Minneapolis sports talk show, citing “anonymous sources”.

I’m saying he’s an average defender now rather than a plus one or an elite one. His injuries have diminished his range and the consistency of his arm. He’s a very streaky hitter. Remember that the Braves played the Orioles just 10 days ago. Hardy was over .300 when the series started. He’s already sub-.280.

Check out his month by month stats this year:
April: .200/.294/.400 (only 6 games because of injury)
May: .247/.322/.364
June: .362/.409/.686
July: .150/.205/.300

He’s basically had one very good month this year. That’s it.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

Twitter: @biggentleben

by biggentleben on Jul 12, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions

You state it as if there is substance to the claim. That’s wrong. Even if there were an actual mystery caller with a mystery source, it almost certainly wouldn’t be true and if it were there would be some reports of it somewhere.

There’s also no information about injuries reducing his ability.

by Salty on Jul 12, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions

LOL

It wasn’t a caller to the radio station. It was a former media director for the Twins who now works at the station and is extremely connected and has proven so multiple times, being the first to break the numbers of the Mauer contract to the report of Delmon refusing to play this year.

If you don’t look for them, you’ll find nothing on his decline as a defender. Many eyes have seen it, but like I said earlier, the stuff he gets to, he still swallows up, so his defensive stats haven’t taken a hit. Anyone actually watching the game can easily see the decline in his defense.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 12, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions

He does this every year. Always one big month that supports his season’s line.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Jul 12, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions

That's not entirely true.

In 2009, he didn’t even have the good month.

by cavebird on Jul 13, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

I’d say call up to AAA now

September call up if he does passably.

I can see him as the backup MI in Atl next year (I think A-Gon gets re-signed one more year)

by Broccoman on Jul 11, 2011 12:20 AM EDT reply actions

I agree that he may have already earned a promotion to AAA and that is a real possibility.

There is, however, almost no chance at all he will be called up to Atlanta prior to September at the very earliest. More likely, he will get a long look at ST next season.

by fandave on Jul 11, 2011 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions

I think that's what Brocco meant

Get him to AAA until their season is done (early- to mid-September), and then give him a week or two in the majors and see how he handles himself. I do think that the organization is in a spot where they need to know where he’s at in order to make some offseason decisions.

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions

which is why he should have the challenge of facing AAA pitching in the 2d half.

by fandave on Jul 11, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Which is exactly what Brocco said

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Calling Pastornicky up now would be a terribly short-sighted and ignorant thing to do, and fortunately something the Braves won’t do.

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by cbwilk on Jul 11, 2011 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

this

by leedawg on Jul 11, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions

I said no,

and only because I believe that once we get Prado back, and Uggla and Heyward get back on track, Alex’s lack of a bat will not matter. I would rather keep his glove in the game, save us those runs, and then we will see Tyler get his cup of coffee this September.

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by abraves257 on Jul 11, 2011 12:30 AM EDT reply actions

I like Pastornicky, but no.

I kind of agree with Broccoman, call him up to AAA, and see how he does. If he continues to do well, then maybe promote him. But for now, no. He needs to draw more walks.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jun 28, 2011 9:50 PM EDT reply actions
by ChopMaster on Jul 2, 2011 12:53 PM PDT

by GouldisGold on Jul 11, 2011 12:32 AM EDT reply actions

No, keep him down

He needs more seasoning. The problem (IMO) isn’t that Gonzo sucks offensively. I think its due to the fact he’s in the #2 spot. If he’s further down the lineup, he MIGHT do a little better. Get closer to his normal numbers, anyway. I think w/ Prado coming back we’re gonna see (obviously) a different kind of lineup. Seems I read somewhere Fredi has had Gonz up that high to “get him jumpstarted”.

Melky was a fail, but that was Melky’s fault, or the fault of Atlanta for having awesome cheeseburgers and ribs.

by Broccoman on Feb 21, 2011 4:11 PM EST

by ROBravo on Jul 11, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions

He should spend the second half at AAA

And I’d like to see a few at bats in Atlanta in September, just to see if he’s ready to be the guy next year, or if we need to hire another one-year fill in.

This off-season should provide a few of those one-year guys:

Raffy Furcal (who might take a one-year deal to prove himself to the market again)
Alex Gonzalez
Marco Scutaro
Ronny Cedeno
Jack Wilson

Those are the type of guys who will give you a solid glove or solid offense, but not enough to want to keep them around long-term if Pastornicky is ready mid-season.

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 1:30 AM EDT reply actions

I dont think we should even look for a one year guy outside of A-Gonz. He would be the cheapest out of the bunch and he’s already been a part of the organization.

by drumzalicious on Jul 11, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions

I would not mind

a two year deal with a buyout for 2013 or a one year deal with a team option for 2013 if we don’t feel Pastornicky would be ready next spring.

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-justincredubil02

no, Jack Daniel is whiskey.
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by abraves257 on Jul 11, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions

This.

I’d offer A-Gon 1 yr $2mil

by Broccoman on Jul 11, 2011 5:45 AM EDT up reply actions

I say no

Pastornicky is doing well in AA and if anything deserves a call up to AAA. I would love for him to be our Opening Day SS provided he shows he can handle ML pitching next year in ST. For that reason I’ve been advocating acquiring J.J. Hardy as a rental and letting him walk at the end of the season.

by drumzalicious on Jul 11, 2011 1:40 AM EDT reply actions

I agree, he is ready for AAA

If we move him up now, and he is clearly ready, he might prove himself ready for 2012.. Which would be ideal.

by willlinn on Jul 11, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I love him as a September call up as a utility player. I would love to see TP and Gonzo taking grounders together. There is a lot there to learn. But I hope we keep them far apart during BP. I would love to give him a little more time before we expect him to be a ML starter. This team is already really young, and while age is trumped by experience (not always the same thing, especially in terms of competitive experience) and skills, I would rather we take it slow on TP.

But like I said, I expect to see him in September.

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by GumpBrave on Jul 11, 2011 3:42 AM EDT reply actions

The problem with calling him up is that he isn’t on the 40-man roster, and currently there is no slot available, so they’d have to drop someone in order to add Pastornicky. (They are already faced with having to make a DFA decision when Medlen is ready, since he will be coming off of the 60-day DL.)

"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt

by Cornutt on Jul 11, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Is Wagner still on there?

by drumzalicious on Jul 12, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions

No.

He was removed before the start of the season.

by cavebird on Jul 12, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions

If all the rest of the lineup was hitting their normal numbers and Chipper wasn’t out for a number of weeks, then you could live with Gonzalez sucking given his defense. But with so many others under par and Alex only signed through this year, shortstop is the most obvious position the Braves can make a major upgrade at. It would make more sense to trade Alex for a different major league shortstop who is having a more productive offensive year and let Pastornicky continue to develop. But if Wren can’t find a good deal like that, I wouldn’t mind having him give Tyler a shot. The worst that happens is he struggles and gets sent back down. Since Gonzalez is already struggling hugely, that wouldn’t cost the team much.

by redwards95 on Jul 11, 2011 6:40 AM EDT reply actions

“shortstop is the most obvious position the Braves can make a major upgrade at”

Where are you going to find anything resembling a “major” upgrade whose offense would cover what has been described by basically every major league scout as the best defensive shortstop in baseball right now. With our best performing pitcher relying on ground balls, our stud reliever relying on a groundball-inducing sinker, and our two highest-paid starters major pitch-to-contact pitchers, I’ll keep the stellar defender.

Alex’s issue is not Alex, it’s how Fredi has used him. His performance this year would be acceptable at the 7 or 8 hole in a lineup, but he’s been 2-5-6. That’s the issue.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions

His performance this year would be acceptable at the 7 or 8 hole in a lineup, but he’s been 2-5-6. That’s the issue.

Thanks. Fredi’s using him like he has a Furcal-like offensive skillset when he should clearly be down in the order.

In reference to your comment above, I’d take Alex out of that group. He’s probably the best defensive player out of the bunch. I’d love to see Furcky back in a Braves uniform, but dude just can’t stay healthy.

by Fatvirus on Jul 11, 2011 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think a sub .290 OBP would be acceptable anywhere in the lineup unless we are talking about a pitcher.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions

From the best-fielding shortstop in the game

I think I’d be willing to take .290 OBP’s, as long as the rest of the lineup performed up to expectations

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Then we disagree.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions

When it comes to Alex Gonzalez....

…, whichever Alex Gonzalez this one is, you disagree with most people, sound logic, and most everything else in existence. You would have killed Earl Weaver for running Mark Bellanger out there year after year.

by cavebird on Jul 11, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

The good news about the offensive production of Alex Gonzalez

is it almost has to be better in the 2d half than it was in the 1st.

by fandave on Jul 11, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

What is sound about a logic that calls him a good hitter?

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Who's calling him a good hitter?

I said his career averages would be acceptable at the right spot in the lineup based on his defense.

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Many people around here think because of his above-average power (where has that gone, btw?) he’s overall an average hitter (or good). I constantly argue that point, which makes it seem like I hate Alex Gonzalez and always argue against him – which may or may not be the case, I guess.

That’s what cavebird was referring to. Not necessarily anything you or anyone else in this particular thread has said.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I have known he can't hit for years.

I won’t argue that point. He’s got mediocre power and a horrible OBP, but plays great defense. He is truly WYSIWYG. And that’s exactly what we’re getting.

by cavebird on Jul 11, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I have no complaints about his D at all. Some of the best SS I’ve seen – especially for a 34 year old.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bellira01.shtml

A comparison, and I think early 90s and today are comparable era-wise.

by Broccoman on Jul 13, 2011 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions

Since the rest of the lineup is very far from performing up to expectations other than Brian McCann and Freddie Freeman, Frank Wren should see if he can find a good hitting, average or better defending shortstop to replace Gonzo.

by redwards95 on Jul 11, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

The difference in defense between Alex and a merely good shortstop is far less than the difference in offense between Alex and a good hitting shortstop. Wren should at least try to find somebody who can do both for the rest of the year and possibly next. Maybe you’re right and there’s nobody in which case he can go after an outfielder instead. It can’t hurt to look though.

by redwards95 on Jul 11, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions

They just don't exist.

At least not available ones within budget. Good hitting shortstops are so rare they command a ton of money.

by cavebird on Jul 11, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions

JJ Hardy

Could be had if this extension falls through with Baltimore. Granted his defense is more average than good.

The thing I’m worried about is Alex’s defense makes up for Chippers lack of defense. If we downgrade there we could be in trouble.

by drumzalicious on Jul 12, 2011 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions

See above for reasons I'm not exactly enthralled about Hardy.

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by biggentleben on Jul 12, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I said no, because I don't believe

that you can jump from AA pitching to the Majors without messing something up. We need to call him up to AAA and depending on what he does, maybe bring him up in September

Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.

by BravosFanatic on Jul 11, 2011 7:59 AM EDT reply actions

Furcal did alright.

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 8:00 AM EDT up reply actions

True, but Furcal is Furcal

I don’t except him to be as good as Furcal. But as another person said, This is really the first year he has looked great with his bat. I just want him to get a month at least in AAA before getting called up

Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.

by BravosFanatic on Jul 11, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions

And he's not....

I think he’s pretty doggone good, but not ML-good yet (I’m not a scout, but I play one while watching from the stands). That said, I haven’t seen him drive the ball like he’d obviously been doing — except for the game I saw, of course.

Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"

by carpengui on Jul 11, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

meh. I believe a player can jump from AA to the bigs just fine. In AA most of those kids are ready for the bigs and just are polishing some things where as AAA is full of bench role players with no room on the ML roster.

by drumzalicious on Jul 12, 2011 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions

That's nice.

Tell it to Minor and Teheran.

Also, with limited success at AA (as in half a season) a straight jump wouldn’t be pretty. Personally, I wouldn’t care if he finishes the season at AAA or AA, but I don’t think he could hit major league pitching any better than Gonzo right now, so I wouldn’t call him up.

by cavebird on Jul 12, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions

It’s the truth. You see some go through to triple-A, but you see some make the jump just fine from double-A as well.

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by BenDuronio on Jul 12, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I voted no

We are going to lose 2 players from the 40 man roster when Moylan and Medlen return from the 60 day DL. Adding Pastornicky to the 40 man would cost us a third player. Doesn’t seem like a very sound decision.

"Bunting's my favorite." Fredi G

by bighop on Jul 11, 2011 9:12 AM EDT reply actions

Lugo, Proctor, Gearrin....

Gearrin should make it through waivers… Problem solved

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by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT

by Klemson Krash on Jul 11, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Lugo, Proctor and Hicks would be a better choice. I think Hicks has a better chance of clearing waivers than Gearrin would.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions

agreed

And plus Gearrin isn’t really that bad. He just had a bad game and Fredi wouldn’t take him out which he should have because his ball didn’t have any sink yesterday

Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.

by BravosFanatic on Jul 11, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m surprised nobody ever mentions Dustin Richardson as DFA-able

"Bunting's my favorite." Fredi G

by bighop on Jul 11, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Or Wilikin Ramirez, or Diory...

among others who by now have proven they are more fringe AAA/MLB types than true pieces for a championship caliber 25-man roster.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions

I think both of those guys are more valuable than Hicks or Proctor at this point.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

True, but not valuable to the point where you'd hold on to them

at the expense of a potential long term fixture as Pastornicky may be.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 11, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Gearrin would not clear waviers. Plenty of teams would snatch him up and having him working their 7th or 8th innings by the end of the month.

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by cbwilk on Jul 11, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

But he gave up 20 runs in yesterday’s game!!!

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 11, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

didn’t we have a reliever a few years ago that was great and was severely under used by Bobby for a whlie?

I don’t think it was Venters, Maybe EOF?

by drumzalicious on Jul 12, 2011 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Ron Mahay? Maybe Moylan earlier on?

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 12, 2011 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions

He needs more time in the minors

Yes, he is having a breakout year and this is very promising. But I don’t think its time just yet. I do think he should spend the next 3 months in AAA. With SS being a position of need going into the offseason, it is very important to know just what we have in Pastornicky. If he hits well in AAA, he deserves a long look in spring training next year. It is looking like Hardy might get an extension with Baltimore, and Jose Reyes will be way too expensive.
Not many appealing options in the FA market for shortstops in 2012, so they may sign Gonzo to a one year deal if they don’t think Pastornicky is ready. Furcal will be a FA, but he is always injured. Marco Scutaro of the Red Sox could be a FA if they don’t pick up his option.

by bbaker68 on Jul 11, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions

First of all, great post. This brings up a very interesting point, which generates a wide array of opinions.

Mine is that, no, TP needs more seasoning facing more difficult pitchers first. However, while Gonzalez does actually bring a lot to the table with his defense, he has struggled mightily at the plate this year due to his incredibly poor patience and decision making with the bat. So this poll options are phrased poorly. Do I think that we should call up TP to Atlanta: No. Do I think we need a new shortstop which could provide more (or even some) offense a the expense of Gonzo’s D: maybe. But the two poll options are not mutually exclusive of each other.

by Santaklose11 on Jul 11, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions

It’s especially interesting b/c if he were already in AAA, I expect most of us would be going “well ****, why hasn’t Tyler been called up yet!?!?!”

Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"

by carpengui on Jul 11, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, keep in mind that Pastornicky had not played above high-A (in fact, he started 2010 in rookie ball) before the Braves acquired him last year and assigned him to Mississippi. So he has less than one full season at AA. I do think that it’s time to promote him — he’s hitting the cover off the ball, and in a pitcher’s league at that. Time to move him up and see how he does with close-to-major-league pitching.

"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt

by Cornutt on Jul 11, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions

No to Pastronicky.. This season

Like others have said, he needs to hit at AAA in September. If he continues his consistent hitting and we haven’t made a move for a SS by that time, then there’s no harm in giving him his cup of coffee.
As for Gonzalez, wow, what a complete blackhole in the lineup, especially in the 2-hole, but I assume that changes after the all star break.
Schafer, Prado, Mac, Freeman, Uggla, Heyward, Gonzo, Mclouth. Thus keeping Fredi’s holy L-R-L batting order intact

by murph35 on Jul 11, 2011 12:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

The L-R-L thing is pretty much done by pretty much every manager at every level that has equitable talent from the RH and LH side. It’s done so that towards the end of games you force the bullpen into unfavorable matchups…and leaves you with flexibilty to make your own lineup changes.

by TBuzz on Jul 11, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Players, in optimal, injury-free situations, should be promoted to the big league club when they have developed to that level, not because someone at the big league level is faltering.

Very little good can come from rushing a prospect through the ranks, as you waste service time on a player who hasn’t yet learned enough to perform at that level and it can deflate their confidence when they struggle as well. It’s more often a hindrance than it is a boost, both on organizational and personal levels.

So, no, it’s not yet time to promote Pastornicky. He’s not there yet.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Jul 11, 2011 12:18 PM EDT reply actions

For all the reasons given above...

…it is pretty obvious calling up Pastornicky now is not a good idea. There is also the other obvious reason: he probably wouldn’t hit any better than Gonzalez in the majors right now. He would be a downgrade with the glove and probably even with the bat.

What we need to do is stop ever hitting Gonzo second, that is seriously sad. Fortunately, with Prado returning, we should stop doing that.

by cavebird on Jul 11, 2011 1:29 PM EDT reply actions

I think Pastornicky needs to go to AAA, and I think we need to bench Alex for a few days and let Brandon Hicks play some. The guy was hitting a ton of homers at AAA and it just proves he has the power and just needs the playing time…I think he might be our short term answer instead of resigning Alex.

by Dave_D on Jul 11, 2011 1:36 PM EDT reply actions

Brandon Hicks isn't the answer either.

Hicks showed some power in AAA, but his K% remained well over 30. That translates to whiff-o-rama in the majors.

by cavebird on Jul 11, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I do like Pastornicky and think he will get his shot,

But can we promote him to AAA first and see how he plays. We are in the thick of things and I don’t think bringing up a SS from AA in the middle of the season is the right move to make. Every 21 year old will not be Jason or Freeman ( and neither of them where brought up mid season), give the kid sometime in AAA and if he responds well, you can think about him the start of next season.

by SB75 on Jul 11, 2011 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

I voted no

due to the fact, of majority of the reasons on here:

1. This is his “break-out” season. Possibly destroying his confidence in the majors, before even attempting AAA, is not smart.

2. Maybe once he gets some gained confidence in AAA, then a late call-up could be possible, but not likely.

3. He along with some other, possible AAAA or, A-gon again, will get their spring training long looks, and then decide from there.

by chicagobullies on Jul 11, 2011 4:13 PM EDT reply actions

Alex G will start hitting again. Prado will come in and bat second, Gonzalez will do better batting 7th or 8th.
Alex has these slumps, last year he had it in August and September. He will bounce back towards .250.

by armanidog on Jul 11, 2011 6:01 PM EDT reply actions

Should have waited a year

We could have made the same type deal for JJ Hardy this year.

by BravesfaninMontana on Jul 11, 2011 7:03 PM EDT reply actions

I’d much rather have Pastornicky than Hardy.

"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt

by Cornutt on Jul 11, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions

This

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 11, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions

if i recall correctly

Since when did JJ Hardy become such a hot commodity(sp?)

He’s average, at the very best, and we would have to greatly overpay to get him. Plus he will want a pay day that he does not deserve. Just does not make much sense to me.

Pastor T > JJ Hardy IMO, for future financial reasons, and for future ability. Not worth it one bit to get this guy.

by chicagobullies on Jul 12, 2011 12:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Defensively, there is no way he is average. He was elite and the only suggestion that he has lost any ability is mostly one guy here.

by Salty on Jul 12, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Here

But there are many guys all over the place. You want to average defense over three years, and his dWAR combined over the last three years is 0 — exactly league average.

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by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

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by biggentleben on Jul 12, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Heck no. Hardy would be a 50 game rental whereas we’ve had AGonz for a year and a half and have 6 years of Pastornicky whenever we bring him up

by drumzalicious on Jul 12, 2011 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Perfect World

Echoing here…

A-Gon is a perfect 7 hitter. Trouble is, our ideal 2 hitter has been either injured (Prado/Heyward) or slumping (Heyward).

I’m perfectly OK with sacrificing offense at short this year. If we can secure the other seven positions (which is realistic) then A-Gon can not get on base (often) to his heart’s content.

Hardy in 2012.

by edesade1 on Jul 12, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions

How is a guy with fading power and an atrocious approach at the plate a perfect hitter in any lineup spot?

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 12, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions

The one thing I don’t get ( This is not attacking you , just a question for Braves fans) is, why are we willing to sacrafice offense at SS and not in CF? A-Gon has played very well defensively ( Not as good as a mounth ago, but still really good), Jordan has been outstanding defensively in CF, but he seems to be the guy everyone is dogging offensively. The way I understand baseball is defense comes 1rst at Catcher, SS, and CF, everywhere else you have to be able to do something offensively. So why the double standards with A-Gon and Jordan? Just a question.

by SB75 on Jul 13, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

First of all, I would say that Jordan has more flexibility. He is not necessarily a finished product right now so a little extra development could possibly solve some of the offensive problems he has been having. We are getting Alex Gonzalez for cheap and we don’t really have any better options. There is certainly no scenario in SS where one player is good defensively and bad offensively and other player is the reverse, but that situation DOES exist in the OF or more precisely CF.

As a second point, you can’t have two black holes in your offense because at that point 20% of your non-pitcher lineup is worthless. It isn’t even necessarily twice as bad as one bad offensive player because all of a sudden you are almost giving away 2/3rds of the inning (see Schafer and Alex in the 1-2 hole) which compounds the problem. Ideally if you are going to have a player who is a “defensive anchor” (meaning that his offense his excusable because of his superior D at an important position) the rest of the lineup is even more important, hence why you can get away with 1 but 2 makes your offense exponentially more impotent.

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by GumpBrave on Jul 13, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, the fact that our pitching staff is so ground-ball oriented helps..

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: ' I don't care if they're black, white, purple, or green.' Uh, hold on now: purple or green?! You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating, then help 'em."

by GumpBrave on Jul 13, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

This is so wrong, but I got to say it!

Everytime a fan brings up how ground ball oriented our pitching staff is ( and I agree about the Braves pitchers and ground balls) , I wonder why on GOD’s green earth so many where happy to get Uggla!…… Sorry spiled milk, his defense sucks!!!!!!!!!! The only player at any spot I can think of less capable than Dan defensively is Adam Dunn and he’s now a DH.

by SB75 on Jul 13, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Uggla has done pretty well this year, and the SS gets more action than the 2nd baseman.

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: ' I don't care if they're black, white, purple, or green.' Uh, hold on now: purple or green?! You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating, then help 'em."

by GumpBrave on Jul 13, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Have you gone to any games and seen him play in person? It’s not just the errors and bad throws that Freeman has saved him on, The dude’s range is sucks! He has not done well defensively at all. Please don’t be fooled by the talking heads making exscuses for him.

by SB75 on Jul 14, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Have you considered that perhaps the games you have seen in person might be unduly weighed in your opinion? Please don’t be fooled by what you had heard before he came to Atlanta. His defense isn’t great, but it wasn’t as abysmal as it had been in the past. His range might be lacking, but the same thing could be said of Freddie Freeman. He has been fairly sure handed on the ball’s that he gets to. And to say he is the 2nd worst defender in the game is far worse hyperbole than saying that he has done well defensively.

The only thing I’m basing the doing well part on is my really low expectations at the beginning of the season. He isn’t great, or even good, but I feel like he has exceeded those expectations. Anyway, like I said, SS gets a lot more action than 2nd generally.

And on another note, the good defense of SS makes up for the 2nd base defense like a strong LF and RF makes up for a weak CF. We already have excellent LF and RF defense and great 1st and SS defense which minimizes the impact of Dan Uggla’s glove.

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: ' I don't care if they're black, white, purple, or green.' Uh, hold on now: purple or green?! You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating, then help 'em."

by GumpBrave on Jul 14, 2011 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions

You have to consider that in your opinion as well my friend. You stated in your reply that " I’m basing the doing well part on is my really low expectaions at the begining of the season" those are your words about your opinion. So with that said you didn’t expect anything out of him defensively and I did somewhat. You kind of debated your own argument with that staement and the telling me not to" be fooled by what you had heard before he came to Atlanta". SO which statement reflects your true feeling on his defense? Low expectations or don’t be fooled by what I heard about it? I knew Dan was bad, but I didn’t know he was this bad. I don’t know if he doesn’t get a good read off the bat or his feet are in quicksand, but seeing nearly every Braves game, he is terrible. Saying the only defender I consider worse is Dunn is an opinion, but that is truely how I see him. I can’t think of any one player worse defensively so his defense has been abysmal in my opinion.
If you could give me a few that you think are worse defensively, I’d be interested. I thought about the 3B man from the O’s but he actually has good range and a strong arm. No accuracy at all as the errors show.
The comment on Freemans range? His range is very good for a 1B man, so I don’t understand where you are coming from at all.

The last statement….. IDK what to say….. I do understand where you are coming from. But Good defensive LF’ers and RF’ers do not make up for a bad defensive CF’er. The CF’er should be the best defender out of the 3.

by SB75 on Jul 14, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I just think that he has done better than I expected. Not to say that he is a good defender, but he isn’t abysmal by any means. I also think that having a good SS and a good 1st baseman helps pick up the defense for someone who isn’t a defensively elite position.

This is kind of a sidetrack from the initial discussion of why the difference between how we consider the players Gonzo and Schafer. For me the primary reason is that Schafer can develop and Gonzo cannot. Instead, he is a cheap “defensive anchor.”

The part that we got sidetracked is how a ground ball oriented staff compensates for the bad glove of Uggla. My point was that SS gets a lot more action, and the good gloves at SS and 1st base minimize the impact of Dan Uggla. Not to mention that you can’t play every player at every position.

I am not saying that Uggla is the best defender or even a good defender, but he has been fairly sure handed on the balls he gets to and to me that means he is doing his best. I just don’t see him as bottom of the barrel like you do, but like I said he might just be exceeding very low expectations.

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: ' I don't care if they're black, white, purple, or green.' Uh, hold on now: purple or green?! You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating, then help 'em."

by GumpBrave on Jul 14, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Freeman has saved far more bad throws from Gonzalez than he has from Uggla.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 14, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions

I don’t dissagree. Alex’s best defensive ability IMHO is the balls he gets to ( he can pick it when he’s not trying to be qute). Freeman has bailed him and the entire infield out enough to earn GG votes.

by SB75 on Jul 14, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions

This just all seems so subjective. I love Freddie’s defense, but my opinion of it has dropped over the course of the year a bit because his range is limited though he is sure handed on the balls he gets to (somewhat similar to Uggla)

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: ' I don't care if they're black, white, purple, or green.' Uh, hold on now: purple or green?! You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating, then help 'em."

by GumpBrave on Jul 14, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I think most of this is subjective to our own opinions. I just have to dissagree with you on this. I think Freeman has good range for a 1B man, very good. While I think Uggla’s range at 2B sucks. I guess as long as you are not calling him ( Uggla) a good defender, it’s all a matter of opinion, but I would like to here some names of guys you think are worse.

by SB75 on Jul 14, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Freeman does not have good range at all. He’s not Glausian, but it’s still pretty bad.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Jul 14, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you kidding? For 1B man it’s good! Would it be horrible at other spots 3b, 2b, ect? Yes. But at 1B, it’s good.

by SB75 on Jul 14, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions

For 1B, it’s not good. I really dig the rest of his defensive (and offensive) game, but his range is poor.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Jul 15, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Not even saying I dissagre with your assessment of it all. But this doesn’t answer my question, well maybe just not the clear answer I’m looking for. To me Jordan while not walking at nearly the rate he was when he 1rst came up ( some are do to him getting sqeezed on some bad calls putting him behind in the count or K’ing) He provides a much needed base stealing threat, great base running and great defense. Alex only great defense and with the way Freeman has gloved everything coming his way, IMHO he deserves some of the credit we are giving Alex.

by SB75 on Jul 13, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions

As someone mentioned below it is easier to upgrade CF than SS, but I think the fact that Schafer still needs to develop and still has potential is a big reason because I don’t think that this is the finished product and if it is then we definitely need to improve.

"You know when it comes to racism, people say: ' I don't care if they're black, white, purple, or green.' Uh, hold on now: purple or green?! You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! Unless they're suffocating, then help 'em."

by GumpBrave on Jul 13, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions

There’s two reasons why I haven’t posted about a SS trade. The first one is that there just isn’t much available out there in the market right now, and there are a lot of contenders looking for an upgrade at that position. I’d rather not overpay for a small upgrade. The second one is that it looks like we have the long-term answer at SS if we can get through the next season and a half. For CF, it’s far from certain that the farm system is going to produce a viable option anytime in the next three years.

"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt

by Cornutt on Jul 13, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions

That's the key...

good hitting SS is something that is few and far between right now. So with so few out there, we’ll let that slide. There’s plenty of CFs who put up solid offensive numbers, so we get a little more pissy there because it seems easier to find.

http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Jul 13, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions