Dan & Jordan - really?
by BronxBraveFan on Jun 8, 2011 12:49 AM EDT
Email
PrintWell, after tonight's Alex Gonzales win against the Marlins, we've learned really two things:
#1: Dan Uggla now has the worst batting average in the major leagues.
#2: Jordan Schafer, although starting out hot, is now reverting back to what he did when he first came to the bigs.
You can argue all you want (and i know you will) but these two points lead me to two conclusions -
1: Nobody who makes $10,000,000+ a year should be the worst at anything in their given field. Uggla makes more than that figure and he's DFL in baseball right now when it comes to average. His OBP can't be much better...
2: Don't talk so poorly about Nate McLouth's performance this season and say how Jordan Schafer is "definitely" better than him before Schafer got/gets a few at bats in. Even if Jordan were to get back on track, he will never score runs at the same rate that McLouth does.
So, what happens now? Uggla can still get his batting average over the mendoza line if he gets 10 hits in a row or something like that and maybe Schafer can prove to be a little better than average but honestly, is this going to be enough from these guys for the Braves to make the playoffs and then get to a world series? Probably not.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
72 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think this is where Qtips writes
“a conter argument?” “DONE”….
:-)
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 8, 2011 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions
large gregarious waterbird with a long bill, an extensible throat pouch for scooping up fish, and mainly white or gray plumage.
"Welcome to the show, Brandon Beachy. I think you’re going to stay a while."
/hits buzzer
What is a Pelican?
I will take Large waterfowl for 500, Alex
by Santaklose11 on Jun 8, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
you certainly are a master baiter....
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 9, 2011 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I am really looking forward to Mclouth's return
I personally think Mclouth is a solid center fielder, and prob will be when he comes back.
Uggla – we are going to just have to stick with him till he turns it around.
He will turn it around… Hopefully in time to contribute to the second half, hopefully in time to be a threat in the playoffs..
I am more concerned with getting Heyward in the lineup…
With Uggla and Heyward out of the lineup – our offense is far far far less imposing..
If these guys start contributing as they should,
then add Gonzalez, Freeman, McCann, and Prado’s performances, and we will be rockin out.. That’s when the 10 game winning streak comes…
We might be waiting for uggla and heyward for that streak though
I would form a counter-argument to this... but
I don’t know what I’d be arguing… I feel as though your stance on this topic is unclear and with that being said, I’m not sure this warrants a fanpost… I’m not sure a new or intriguing thought was broadcast and I don’t think this thread will last too terribly long…
If you can clarify your thoughts, I would be interested to hear more but… alas… this hurts my head.
Bottom line, Braves will be fine. McLouth or Schafer, they will have a CF. Everyone knows I love Schafer and am firmly hitched up to the lead of the bandwagon for him… He brings something this team doesn’t have w/ McLouth. Regardless of McLouth’s baserunning prowess, Schafer is faster, can arguably get on base at the same clip and provides a better defense… That’s enough for me to believe. Either way, we will still win games. It’s not our CF that’s holding back the offense… Dan Uggla was signed as the right handed power bat to carry us to the World Series. He’s underperformed but will snap out of it soon enough. I believe in him, everyone here should. He’s a professional. Yes, the sample size is getting smaller but that’s ok. Baseball is a marathon. Let him struggle all year and let our team hang in on the division and wild card. Then he will catch fire at the right time, pick this team up on his back and carry us like we paid him to do. I would rather him struggle now than struggle at the end of the year.
And lastly, Heyward. He’s taking the time he feels he needs to get himself right. He knows his capabilities and he’s doing the tough thing of not manning up and playing through it. He’s getting himself healthy so he too can carry us to the World Series when he gets back. This season still has alot of time left and we will be fine.
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
why does every post result in a debate of whether or not it should be there?
I just think thats a bad habit..
and i disagree..
this is an isolated convo about uggla and schafer – the two weakest spots in the lineup – it certainly belongs
Dan Uggla isn’t making $10MM this season.
Who thought that the Braves were a WS contender this season?? Playoff contenders, sure, but I’ve always figured that the team won’t be a true WS contender until both Heyward and Freeman have a couple seasons under their belt.
Realistically, this is a year in which the Braves should be shooting to maintain their standing in the NL rather than going for the gusto (the playoffs are a crap shoot, anyway). When McLouth, KK, etc., come off the books, the team will have a much better shot of supplementing a young and talented core once their inexperience wears off.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Who thought that the Braves were a WS contender this season??
uhhh…..I did as well as many Braves fans. Sorry if I have high expectations for my team especially when they are this talented.
Cosigned.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 8, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m all for being hopeful, but expecting to win a WS year-in and year-out is incredibly unrealistic.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
And that would make sense but I, like a many of us here, thought that the Braves increased the talent this year versus last year’s injury riddled playoff appearance.
I do, too, to an extent,,,but the talent is still awfully young, and prone to err.
I didn’t think they were a 97-win team, which is what won the division last season. I had them at low to mid-90s in the win column, which is more than enough to contend for a division, but may not be enough to win it.
In a year or two, I think (or at least hope) wins in the mid to high-90s, battling for the best record in the league, will be an appropriate prediction. But they aren’t quite there yet.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I don't expect it every year...
but I did think this team had the depth of pitching to make the post season, and as past post seasons have shown, if you’re the hot time in October, you’ve got a good chance of walking away with a ring. So yeah, I had hopes the Braves could win a World Series on just that premise, a pitching staff that makes the post season and bats that get hot once we’re there, the same formula everyone else except the Yankees had.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
And I think you are talking about two different things -C...
“win a WS year-in and year-out”, unless we’ve got a Yankees payroll, I don’t think anyone can reasonably expect to win a WS every year.
But in a single given year, most teams have hopes that what they’ve put together, as said above, can both make the playoffs and then once you’re there, hopefully get hot and win some games.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
If a team is a legitimate post season contender.... IMHO
they are a legitimate WS contender. After you get to the post season, typically the team w/ the best pitching wins… and guess what guys. We’re pretty darn good in that category. :-)
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 9, 2011 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
It could be a case of different interpretations of the term.
I see a true WS contending team, at the beginning of the season, as one that is a clear-cut frontrunner in their own division, a nearly certifiable playoff lock. I thought incredibly highly of the team prior to the season (and still do), but they aren’t that. I didn’t foresee the Braves running away with the division and playing meaningless games during the final two weeks of a season…that’s what a legitimate WS contender does.
And, for all that, WS contenders don’t always win the WS. There’s nothing wrong with a team that’s a clear playoff contender, because anything can happen in the playoffs. But expectations should probably be tempered a little bit from a “World Series or Bust” attitude. Any fan with that mindset is simply being irrational, or roots for the Yanks/Red Sox.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
My two cents:
A month ago, I wasn’t worried about Uggla. Now I am. I think it’s about time we consider benching him for about a week.
And as for Schafer, I am starting to like him more, even if he isn’t hitting anymore. He has been playing great defense, and he’s shown a bit of speed as well. I am in favor of benching McLouth when he comes back.
"Sports is human life in microcosm."
Howard Cosell
in so many ways
you are a (insert explicative here)
Is this your post?
Did you misspelll the name of a player who you beat the Marlins by himself apparently? Completely flub Uggla’s contract?
Are you the poster under second name? Either way, the fanpost has numerous errors, and is full of fail.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I'm not the poster under a second name
but your name is surely starting to develop a “bully” like ring to it
So you think it's a well written and accurate post I assume?
otherwise why chime in at all?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
the correct word to be insterted there is "smartass"...
which to me is preferable over the “dumbass” that can be used to describe this posting.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
It’s kind of weird that you criticize the SSS praise of Schafer because of an even smaller sample size of him playing poorly recently.
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
Its the infamous SSSS
Selective small sample size
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
The infamous SSSSSS
Selective Small Sample Size Searching (for) Suckage.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
It's official
make it part of the TC meme reference library.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
The sample size of Jordan’s poor play “recently” is much larger than just a couple of weeks.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Because it stretches back 3 years.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 8, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Clarification:
He’s still working back from a wrist injury, so it’s understandable, but it’s also a simple reality. He has not played well over the past 3 years now, and was showing no signs of any marked improvement before his call up, so, bluntly put, there’s no reason to think that everything happened to suddenly get better for him right when he got an MLB call up or that it is was going to last.
This is a guy who was failing to hit at AAA this year and last.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
But it's magic...
he’s trying harder at the MLB level, and that’s why his OBP jumped 75-100 points as he moved up a level. Why can’t it be reasonable to expect a .300 obp in AAA guy to put up a .375+ obp in the majors?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Hmmm
#2: Jordan Schafer, although starting out hot, is now reverting back to what he did when he first came to the bigs.
Was that the 2 homers in his first 3 games or the broken wrist?
Eat it!
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
— Albert Einstein
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jun 9, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I’m unable to get onto TC for a while and I come back to people complaining about Jordan Schafer…
Attention MLB players: do not play CF for the Braves or you will instantly be hated, regardless of anything. The end.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
The only people complaining about him seem to be the people who have an unhealthy obsession with seeing Nate Mclouth starting again
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
Or those who don't believe players magically get better than they were in AAA
and we’re seeing a guy who for about a week was playing better than he’s capable of sustaining over the long haul. I really hope he can sustain last night, or last week, but it’s not exactly a reasonable hope.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Not at this point anyway. I think next year, we could reasonably expect to see MLB-average offense from him, but not right now.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 9, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not directed at you specifically...
Played 12 games, reached base safely in 10…so far, at least, there’s not much reason to worry about him.
Just let the kid play the damn game. It will sort itself out, for better or worse.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Agree there
especially since Nate sucks and Jordan plays a better CF. Does NOT mean he has to bat leadoff though.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
nate sucks and jordan is better? jordan took PED’s and he still sucks dude. stop the hate on nate.
by BronxBraveFan on Jun 10, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Neither can hit much.
Jordan can play D and actually throws the baseball.
And yes, Nate sucks. Badly.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Neither can hit much?
So .213/.327/.277 is similar to .238/.332/.341?
Nate certainly isn’t an All Star out there, but his line at the plate is a lot better than Schafer’s put up. And we could kind of use any improvements possible offensively right now.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Those are actually pretty similar.
OBP is virtually identical. Jordan’s defense is worth more than the 5 additional HRs you might get from Nate that drives up his still-abysmal SLG.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
OBP is similar...
the other two, avg and slg are not.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 10, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
AVG is irrelevant and
Jordan’s defense is worth more than the 5 additional HRs you might get from Nate that drives up his still-abysmal SLG.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Actually it's not "irrelevant"...
and SLG includes all XBH, not just HRs.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 12, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure it is.
Who cares how you reach first base? SLG captures all the extra bases. And I’m aware that SLG includes all extra bases, it’s just that Jordan’s defense is worth more than the very few additional bases we’re talking about here. This is especially true considering Jordan’s ability to steal some extra bases that don’t show up in the slash line. What does he have, seven already?
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
Jordan never took PEDs
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Jun 10, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
you don't know that
as much as the guy who said he did.
And in reaching base in 10 out of 12...
he’s got a .327 obp and .604 ops. I’ll agree with your last line, but if people whine about McLouth now, if Schafer can’t improve those numbers they’ll be just as loud or worse on him in due time. Right now he’s just the shiny new toy, with the hate for the last toy still fresh in most’s minds.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Conversely, if he can just maintain a league-average OBP, no one has anything to whine about. He’s 24 and likely to get better. Nate’s almost on the wrong side of 30 and has played relatively poorly in the past year and couple months…and he has an expiring contract to boot. The reasons to keep Nate in the lineup are becoming fewer with each game that passes, including those he doesn’t play in.
The pressure’s on Nate here to get back into the lineup and perform above expectations, not Schafer. Schafer’s already accumulated more WAR than Nate in 1/4 of the amount of games.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
If Heyward comes back strong and kicks starts the O...
I don’t think that .277 will cut it with a near league average .327 obp like he has currently, but I think we’d probably live with that due to the D with as said, Heyward coming back healthy (maybe with a return to normal Uggla) to give the O a much needed boost. If not, that .70 point difference in slg and nearly double iso is kind of a reason to at least let Nate continue to get use.
It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, assuming McLouth comes back before Heyward. Because with both of them back, it’s almost impossible to keep all 4 of McLouth, Schafer, Hinske, and Mather on the roster.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
The big thing is that Nate has a shelf life of 99 games + playoffs, regardless of how well he does. If he doesn’t do well, there’s no reason to not use Schafer and treat it as an early audition for the offseason.
To illustrate this, here’s a simple if/then scenario:
If Schafer and Nate play well, Schafer plays.
If Nate plays well and Schafer does not, Nate plays.
If Schafer plays well and Nate does not, Schafer plays.
If neither plays well, Schafer plays.
There’s not too many scenarios with Nate playing. He has to do well to get on the field. If Schafer plays well, all the better, but if not, he’s still in the game unless Nate turns it around.
That’s what happens when you’re dealing with struggling veterans and a potential future starter.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
"If Schafer and Nate play well, Schafer plays."
maybe in AAA. If Nate’s playing well, Schafer needs to get regular at bats to keep improving in AAA and he wouldn’t get them having to share time with Nate (who you said is playing well and therefore must be playing). Prado has LF on lock. Heyward, when healthy, is getting RF every day. Schafer doesn’t need a time share, especially when you look at that borderline OBP (buoyed by 5 strong games in this admittedly sss) and even more so at that SLG. If he can get his OPS even towards .700, that’s good enough. But it’s also a good 100 points of improvement over what he’s done so far. To date, Schafer has not “played well”, except in the field. His production at the plate is still inadequate.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 10, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
It was adequate yesterday, and inadequate today…that’s what happens when one game can drop your OPS 45 points.
It’s still far too early to tell how Schafer’s going to end up. However, it is not too soon for the Braves to deem McLouth a sunk cost. A league-average Nate with horrible defense (which isn’t even the case at this point, his bat is ranking below league-average) will not cut it, plain and simple.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
"hat’s what happens when one game can drop your OPS 45 points."
or when one game can raise it 70+ points, as June 8th did. Or about 30 points, as it did Saturday.
Yes sample size is small, but his AAA isn’t that small, and even you can’t articulate a reason why a player would magically be expected to outproduce his AAA stats at the MLB level.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Sure I can...
It’s his first full season back truly healthy from his wrist injury. It’s going to take him awhile to get back into the swing of things. 187 PA isn’t as SSS as his current 74 PAs, but it still definitely applies.
Despite the fact that he’s adjusting to MLB talent on the mound, he’s outperforming those AAA numbers, which presumably came against weaker competiton. While the MLB sample size is not indicative of what he may or may not produce in the future, it’s enough to wonder about whether his 187 AAA PAs this season are a meaningful measure of his success as well.
As I’ve stated time and time again, it’s still too early. Stop trying to make sense out of anything. Just let him play, and see where the cards fall.
I don’t see why anyone opines, “I think he’ll do good,” or “I think he’ll struggle,” and expects their opinion to be any better than, “I have no fucking clue,” at this point. People just have to have opinions and they must be either right or wrong, apparently.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jun 13, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
7 stolen bases
Great defense, league average OBP.
I think Schafer is keeping the CF job, and rightfully.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
Related FanShots on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Oswalt doesn’t need to save the Rangers, he only needs to provide insurance and depth
- James Loney: Umpires should call pitches from behind mound — and be robots with replay
- Magglio Ordonez set to retire after 15 seasons
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
