Do It Right, Do It Light: The Case For Acquiring Matt Kemp
by ace16tx on Jun 20, 2011 5:50 PM EDT
Email
Print
“Do it right, do it light.” These were the words we said back in the day working out for football in the weight room. What does this mean? When someone would get caught doing say 8 squats instead of 10 the whole team would be punished by running sprints. In other words do it right the first time so you don’t have to pay for it later. This is how I feel about the Braves current trade predicament. Do we trade for a low-risk low-production hitter, or do we use the assets we have worked so hard to accumulate over the past few years to get an impact player.
The answer? Go big or go home. The Braves have the third deepest farm system in the league behind the Rays and Royals. What separates us from them is we are already a very talented team.
Here is what I propose. Trade for Dodger’s center fielder Matt Kemp. Here’s why.
Since Andruw Jones’ last great year for the Braves in 2006 the center field position has been a reputable black hole. Since then we have had Willie Harris, Mark Kotsay, Josh Anderson, Gregor Blanco, Nate McLouth, Rick Ankiel, and Jordan Schafer post unimpressive numbers in center field. The last thing we need is a corner outfielder, and assuming that we can just plug someone who has never played CF into CF is reckless and naive (i.e. Jason Heyward and Hunter Pence). If we were to acquire Kemp we would have an offensive monster in every sense of the word in CF for the next year and a half (barring extension). There has been much said about his attitude and and maturity. But it obviously looks like he has turned the corner. From all accounts the likely cause for his lack of production last year (if you call .250, 30 homers, 90 RBI’s, and 20 stolen bases a bad year) was his highly publicized break up with pop singer Rihanna. Broken hearts heal and it looks like he has moved on.
It would take a lot to get Matt Kemp. We would be looking at another Mark Teixiera trade in the making, but it would be worth every penny. When trading a substantial amount of prospects you need to make sure you don’t wipe out an entire wave of prospects. It is also a good thing to trade prospects being blocked by players in the majors. The other thing you need to realize is you have to give to receive. This is what I believe it would take to get Kemp: Mike Minor, Randall Delgado, Christian Bethancourt, Matt Lipka, Jordan Schafer and maybe a throw in.
It sounds like a lot because it is. But it still leaves us guys like Brandon Beachy, Julio Teheran, Arodys Vizciano, Paul Clemens, Edward Salcedo, Andrelton Simmons, Tyler Pastornicky and a host of others (and that doesn’t include the guys we develop from this year’s draft.)
When people ask why me why should we make a big trade like this I say “because we can.” Face it, there is no such thing as an eight man rotation. We have the assets to get the best man for the job with out wiping out the farm system. I don’t understand why we should settIe for anything less. I understand the reluctancy to unload all these great prospects, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Trading for guys who have solid numbers will only leave us with the same problems this time next year. Do it right the first time and we won’t have to.
What do you think?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
112 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
ha
Forgot to mention Melky Cabrera. Sooooo worthless……
When replying to why me why should we not make a big trade like this I would say "because we can’t." Face it, Matt Kemp is not available for a trade. It doesn’t matter if we have good assets when you are talking about a young potential MVP candidate that the team has no interest in giving up. I don’t understand why people keep acting like Matt Kemp is available when he isn’t. I understand that we have a lot of great pitching depth in the minors and our offense has been terrible, but sometimes you have to understand that there are some players that just will not be traded.
ok post
but i’d rather keep the prospects and go after a guy who is somewhat legit like michael bourn. you have to figure that lowe and hudson won’t be with the braves another 3 years or so. like i said i’d rather have the prospects. we don’t need to make the dodgers legit.
agreed
Bourne is more of what we need. A solid OBP (not spectacular), steals a base every time he is on, scores runs, plays solid defense (spectacular compared to Kemp), and he won’t cost the farm to get.
However, I think Brett Gardner should be the top target. Better OBP, better speed, better defense, longer team control, underrated, and on a team that may really want some starting pitching, maybe a veteran? =)
"Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules?"
rosterbation post people, it’s there for a reason.
That said, this is my bit. And Matt Kemp isn’t the one to use. If we’re paying big, why pay big for a possible malcontent who is unlikely to keep producing at this level or walk away after next year. If we’re paying an extra-premium price, get an extra premium player who will be here at least multiple full seasons; a Morrison, McCutcheon, Braun, etc.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 20, 2011 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If you continue to rosterbate outside the designated area
You are entering a world of pain.
by get swoll yunel on Jun 20, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Offer them Jurrjens, Delgado, Kimbrel, and Oberholtzer
to start, and then see if the Brewers or Pirates still say no.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Brewers would
Braun just signed a 7 year extention or some crazy shit like that. Pittsburgh fans have a lot going for them right now, they have a good yonug club. McCutchen is one of the most dynamic players in Pitt and the face of their franchise, althought Neil Walker is the fan favorite. McCutchen is the nucleous to a high potential team. (Who BTW in 5 years will be great if Taillon and Cole pan out)
Steak, Shrimp, Liquor, and Pasta
Call me crazy...
But I wouldn’t want Braun. There seems to be a lot of risk in that contract. He plays bad D at a non-premium position and may continue to slide down the defensive ladder, and he’s signed for a looooong time.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 20, 2011 10:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree a little bit
He has an elite bat, but he loses quite a bit a value with his defense although it looks like he has been better defensively this year. I would still take him in a heartbeat but I would rather get Cutch than Braun
Agreed
Cutch is one of the few players I think would be worth bothering to trade for. I’d make an offer of Teheran, Delgado, and Hoover. I know he isn’t “available,” but I bet they would be intrigued by the possibility of adding Teheran and Delgado to Taillon and Cole. I know it sounds like a lot, but we are talking about a pre-arb 6 win CF.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 20, 2011 11:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
this is ridiculous
4 Rosterbation post are up right now. Three have gone up in the past day. People need to calm down……
Was there a new shipment of KY?
Must not have been able to get past the water into the Dakotas…
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
— Albert Einstein
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jun 21, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Braun is pretty much untouchable
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
by TurnerTheBurner on Jun 21, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't read past
the sentence saying we got nothing out of Mark Kotsay. he was an above average bat, and a terrific defensive outfielder. also, stop saying that Pence has never played centerfield, he has. thirdly, stop making excuses for the guy, he had a bad year because he had a bad year. i do not want a player carrying the offense if he is going to have a bad year every time he gets dumped. fourth, show me proof that he has turned a corner with his attitude and effort. fifth, where do you get this idea that Kemp is some sort of incredible defensive centerfielder? he has negative defensive stats in every year except for the year he won a Gold Glove, which was once. and don’t say that qualifies him either, because McLouth won one too and hes awful in center. You have nothing to back up your claims that Pence or Heyward would be bad centerfielders, just estimates of their 40 yard dash times. How about we don’t sell the farm for another Tex? we were supposed to have him for a year and a half as well, and that did not turn out well.
lastly, you two should both take this argument into the rosterbation thread, it does not belong as a series of fan posts.
"Welcome to the show, Brandon Beachy. I think you’re going to stay a while."
well you are kinda right
but really there aren’t many if any available YET. matt kemp’s availability will be that of jose bautista’s last season. they just need to be blown over or else they will keep him. but no one has really given up on their season quite yet. give it 2 more weeks.
??????????
What is it with you people and the Mark Teixiera trade. We gave up Saltalamacchia who was blocked by Brian McCann. We gave up a great closer in Neftali Feliz but our bullpen has been consistently one of the 3 best with out him. We gave up a mediocre pitcher in Matt Harrison. Last i checked we have a damn good rotation with more on the way. And we gave up Andrus who has been great but we could not have known that with Yunel Escobar. WE GOT EXACTLY WHAT WE WANTED FROM TEIXIERA!!! YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP GOOD PLAYERS TO GET ONE!!! YOU CAN’T SAY LETS GIVE THEM ALL OF OUR CRAPPY PLAYERS WHO WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY IN THE BIG LEAGUES FOR THEIR FACE OF THE FRANCHISE!!!! IT DOESN’T WORK THAT WAY!!! THEY WERE EXPENDABLE!! GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON!!!!
thank you
We got exactly what we wanted...
except a playoff berth, let alone a World Series.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
..
We got everything we could have asked from Teixiera’s performance. he hit like .330 and 30 homers or something with us. he was not the reason we didn’t make the post season is what i am saying. it’s a little hazy now but i know chipper went down along with one or two others and it was that more than anything.
Wren says he would still have made the trade with hindsight and i completely agree.
what sucks is that all we got was casey kotchman. i think that’s the biggest reason braves fans are so sore about the trade.
Then he's an idiot...
if you make that trade in hindsight, and accept the bust that was Marek and Kotchman, for the package we gave up and 0 playoff appearances, you are an idiot and should be fired. There are numerous better uses for what we gave up than a rental 1B who didn’t take us anywhere we wouldn’t have gone without him.
And more than anything, our reasons for failure those two years wasn’t Tex, it was what we had around him. Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle, and Kyle Davies rounded out the rotation, and Bob Wickman our closer when we traded for Tex, and he couldn’t pitch. The following year, we loaded up a lineup with that had Gregor Blanco as our leadoff man, and Jorge Campillo as our #3 starter. Yeah, that’s two teams just a 1B away from the world series.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
At the time
We were further away than we thought. But we gave up the farm for Teixeira who was batting .297/.397/.524 with 13 homers and 49 rbi. This year, Kemp is batting .328/.415/.622 with 20 homers and 57 rbi.
Kemp is better in every category. The only thing he’s not better at is defense. This time, we may actually only be a good outfield bat away from being the best team in the NL.
Poor use of statistics...
The players don’t exist in a half-year vacuum.
Kemp is a .290/.344/.487 hitter, and Teixeira was.283/.368/.533 at the time of the trade. Teixeira was the game’s best defender at a light-responsibility position, and Kemp is mediocre at best (UZR suggests he’s well below-average) at a defensive-intensive position.
Kemp is not a better player than Teixeira, now or at the time of the trade.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jun 21, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps he means
that knowing what we did at the time of the trade, we would still pull the trigger. That’s the boat I’m in.
by soup du jour on Jun 21, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why would you add "with hindsight"?
which implies not only knowing what you did at the time, but how it plays out as well. Knowing what they did at the time, I can see him saying he’d do it anyway. I wouldn’t with our pitching as said above, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Knowing how it ultimately played out though, if anyone says they’d do it over again they are either lying or imbeciles.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
This
JS’s Mark Davis moment in Atlanta. At least KC was wise enough to let him walk out the door after the move.
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
— Albert Einstein
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jun 21, 2011 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Kemp is having the best year in baseball. We have prospects alll over the place.
Personally, I think Vizcaino’s injury history reads ML bust, and he’s a big piece I would include in a trade for Kemp.
Vizcaino, Lipka, and Hoover, cash and/or draft picks possibly may do the trick. The best player in the majors filling up the biggest hole in our lineup is a scary thought. We would still have plenty of starters after Arodys, our new CF, and a loss of a reliever? LOL
The TCers that say Kemp is untradeable are dead wrong. Almost everybody is tradeable if you’re willing to go balls-to-the-wall in a trade.
You really think if we offered Lipka, Teheran, Salcedo that they wouldnt take it?? I mean that would be stupid, I’m just saying if we went all out basically nobody is untradeable.
I got Venters fever.
Kemp is having the best year in baseball...
and if economics taught me anything, it’s you ought to buy commodities at their highest value.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
...
look at his career numbers. his off year he would have been the best player on our team. even with that they are gaudy and consistent.
"his off year he would have been the best player on our team"
last year he had a line of .249/.310/.450.
We had 5 players with a better OPS+ in 500+ at bats (Heyward, Prado, Heap, Chipper, Infante. 6 players had a higher b-r WAR (those 5 + Hudson). We had 15 position players with a higher WAR last year than Kemp, according to fangraphs.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 20, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
...
he had 28 homers 89 RBI’s and 19 stolen bases
WAR is a completely relative stat.
i’m not worried about how many wins he directly gave his team, i’m worried about the wins he gives us
Haha discarding WAR for RBIs and SBs
That should go over well. What the heck do you mean by “WAR is a relative stat”?
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 12:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
it means
it varies from team to team. it would be different every where he goes because it is not based on what he does but rather what his replacement does. for instance the war for one of our pitchers is going to be much less than that if he was on the mets because we have great depth. but that doesn’t mean he isn’t as good as someone from another team with a better WAR
Then you fail in understanding WAR///
because that’s not how the stat is computed. The quality of team and the level of what that particular team could have as a replacement has absolutely no bearing on WAR.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 21, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
the replacement player is a theoretical one who does not actually exist
by McCann's the Man on Jun 21, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The Dodgers aren't going to trade their best player
And a 26 year old MVP candidate. No chance Kemp is moved, plus this also couldn’t have gone in original aquire Pence post. WAYYYYY too much public rosterbation, it’s starting to really get sticky
Steak, Shrimp, Liquor, and Pasta
why not?
they’re nearly bankrupt. they’re 7.5 games and counting out of first. andre ethier has already said that he thinks they won’t be able to keep himself this offseason so why would they keep an even more expensive arbitration eligible player who’s stock is high like kemp?
The Dodgers won't trade Kemp.
1. MLB is about to take control of the Dodgers and won’t allow it.
2. The bankrupt regime in LA is about to be forced to sell the team and you don’t trade your most marketable commodity for prospects in that situation.
On 1, why not?
Players get dumped for prospects all the time in the Dodgers position standings wise. Why would they be unable to conduct business the same as every other team in the game would?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Are you...
giving up 2-3 top 10 prospects plus a couple of other pieces? If not, you aren’t getting Kemp.
MLB will have nothing to do about trading Kemp. He just isn’t going anywhere. They are going to sign him long term.
Now this I can agree with sid....
but what I don’t buy is that he isn’t moving because of MLB running their show. If he doesn’t move, it’s because he’d cost a metric ton of prospects and they want to build around him long term. Their status as MLB-operated should have no bearing on them conducting business the same as every other team this time of year re: buying/selling before the trade deadline.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Real simple.
If you want the most value for the franchise, you don’t trade the most marketable player. As for MLB, they won’t let the Dodgers do anything right now—-they hate McCort and will veto literally anything, they want to take over and force the sale.
the dodgers are sellers
there 8 games back of the giants, and do u really think they could afford kemp?
by R.I.P Bobby Cox on Jun 21, 2011 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually like this post.
I know some TC’ers will bash the idea, and I’m aware that you are rosterbating in public, but I appreciate the well thought out post, or rant, whichever. As much as I’d like to get Kemp, we wouldn’t be able to, IMO. The Tex deal at that time sent 3 of our top 5 minor league players, and most speculated we gave up too much, again, at that time. Kemp is a much more dynamic player. Saying that, I really think the dodgers would listen to offers, but in their mind we’d have to give up Teheran, Minor, Betancourt, Salcedo, and Schafer, and that’s just the starting point. As great as he is, I don’t see Wren making that drastic of a move. And just bc the Dodgers are 7 out this year, they still very much consider themselves as perennial condensers, so unless they are overwhelmingly blown away, they will more than likely hold on to Kemp for an attempted run at things next year. But if we make a move that sends Minor, Viz, Betancourt, Salcedo, and Schafer their way, heck, I wouldn’t be mad, that’s for sure. JT and Delgado though are two arms I’d like to hang onto.
by murph35 on Jun 20, 2011 10:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't understand the crying either
There are like 2 fanposts a day here and 90% of them are worthless garbage along the lines of “what type of underwear do you think Chipper wears” or worse, “Is Charlie Morton the next Roy Halladay”
Who cares if some rosterbation threads get added to that retardedness? At least they seem to generate some legitimate baseball debate.
Sorry, I’ve been wanting to get that off my chest for years.
As to the topic, I seriously doubt the Dodgers would trade Kemp and I’m not even sure they can considering MLB has taken over operational control of that team due to the McCort debacle. I can just imagine the riot that might ensue at Dodger stadium among their – ahem – more “colorful” fans when Bud Selig announces that their MVP frontrunner has been traded to help clear up the balance sheets.
The problem is that the rosterbation posts are just as bad.
Kemp is not available, so what makes this post any better than the other types of posts you listed.
well, this one isn’t the best example but your typical rosterbation post is better than most posts here and they all seem to generate a lot of baseball discussion. There’s even some quality arguments scattered in this post, eventhough it origninated with a silly suggestion of getting Kemp in a trade
Rosterbation Rosterbation Rosterbation Rosterbation Rosterbation Rosterbation
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
fap fap fap fap fap fap
"Welcome to the show, Brandon Beachy. I think you’re going to stay a while."
TWHS...
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 23, 2011 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
No way would I be for trading the package you suggest for a year and a half of Kemp. That would be incredibly irresponsible. Have you not noticed the need for available pitchers this season? How about back up infielders and out fielders? How about what happened to Posey? Didn’t Nyjer Morgan try to take out McCann several times this season? Giving up the farm for 18 months of Kemp is insane.
"Bunting's my favorite." Fredi G
Lets take this one at a time.
If you trade for Kemp, you don’t treat it like he’s just a long rental. You have to extend him to make it worth doing in the first place.
Secondly, who should we be trading pitching to instead of getting the best bat in the NL?
Thirdly, the point of trading for a player would be to upgrade what we have. There aren’t very many back up infielders or outfielders that would be worth trading for, much less be upgrades over our current bench.
Yeah it sucks if your catcher (or anyone for that matter) goes down with an injury like that, but that’s why we have David Ross.
Lastly, we wouldn’t be giving up the farm. We would still have quite a bit of talent, including a lot of pitching talent.
thank you
that is the point i have been trying to make over and over. who else should we trade for? and once again for the record i don’t think it is possible for me to make it more clear that we don’t need another corner outfielder. bourne is a .265 life time hitter and when we get tired of him we will have to wait out his contract in 2013 like we are doing with mclouth. mean while we have average player here, average player there and more prospects than we know what to do with. just spend the prospects because we have more than enough and we won’t have to reupgrade in time.
i seriously seriously doubt
the braves would even consider extending kemp based on how much he would ask for.
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
But that's the only way a Kemp deal works.
If you can’t extend the guy, then he’s not worth trading for. And that goes for any of the players that we are talking about. I have a philosophy in my life, and it applies to all sorts of things. Don’t spend the same money twice. Basically, don’t buy something that you’re going to have to replace in a short time span. We don’t want to keep doing this year after year. Do it right the first time, and you’ll be much happier, even if it costs a little more initially.
which is one more reason
we aren’t going to trade for kemp
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Except
that if you do trade for him and extend him, you have a premium right-handed bat in your lineup for a lot of years. That would be spending the money once and doing it the right way. And if you’re worried about his defense, move him to LF. He won’t be a liability there, and Prado takes over at third when Chipper retires.
To acquire Kemp...
You have to pay prospects as if he was a CF. To extend Kemp, you have to pay him as a CF. Should he move to left field, he will be overpaid, and we will be back to square one with a glaring black hole in CF. His already poor range is bound to deteriorate further as he ages, so I really don’t see this as a long term solution.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's only 26
so age shouldn’t be a factor in his deteriorating play. Most players peak between 28 and 30. Also, the difference in pay for a left fielder and a center fielder that have his bat is negligible. You’re paying for his bat either way, not his defense. And yes, the prospect cost may be slightly higher because he plays center now, but we’d be using him as a center fielder until at least next year anyways.
Question for TCers
I voted for Bourn….should I make a FanPost about him?
"Bunting's my favorite." Fredi G
Why not?
Seems to be the popular thing to do. I’m sure you have an idea that’s so brilliant it has transcended trashy rosterbation threads.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 12:52 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I assume my sarcasm was apparent, forgot the font
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 1:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What part of what you said was sarcasm? Because I think we can all agree that we dont need 3 different posts a day outlining different trades, and while we can agree that you were making a joke, I think the joke was based more on the reality of what you are saying than the lack of reality.
I was poking fun
At whichever thread was saying how their ideas were above trashy rosterbation threads. I’m not really trying to be critical of you, or anybody for that matter.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 1:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Please don’t. I am properly ashamed of my actions. All I was trying to establish is the case for establishing a bat and giving an outline for the bat I thought we should get. I didn’t mean for all this to ensue…
We need one each
For Cuddyer, Span, Bourn, Adam Jones, Beltran, McCutchen, Corey Hart, Colby Rasmus, BJ Upton, Justin Upton, Grady Sizemore, Logan Morrison, Ryan Ludwick, Carlos Quentin, and Brett Gardner
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
— Albert Einstein
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jun 21, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Be sure
to include quotes from your middle school cheerleading coach as the focus of your point as well to really bring home the post.
"Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results."
— Albert Einstein
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Jun 21, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Duh
"I heard that Tits was "well rounded" and his brother Cans was a "stand out." :D"
by Old Braves' Fan on Aug 18, 2010 3:05 PM PDT
by BravesRaleigh on Jun 23, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Dodgers would want a FORTUNE for Kemp
Especially with the way he’s hitting right now.
No. Chance.
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
by TurnerTheBurner on Jun 21, 2011 12:09 AM EDT reply actions
On the subject of Kemp...
It really is amazing what a .370 BABIP and 25% HR/FB ratio can do for a hitter. He may have taken a legitimate step forward, but he is one year removed from a completely average offensive season. What he has done this year is bound to regress (although the end results for this year are bound to be impressive), and he was a disaster last season. Do. Not. Want.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 1:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It can’t be all bad considering that we are on this site so that we can actively talk about Braves baseball, and the emergence of irrelevant and redundant threads have stimulated this discussion. Let’s be honest and say that the 3 threads posted had almost as much activity in a day as the previous two (overlapping might I add) rosterbation posts had in 6 days.
How much of it was legitimate, original discussion and how much of it was people calling out for rosterbation threads and the same ol’ rehashed arguments that have appeared in other threads??
I’d venture to say that none of this is entirely new or original.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Jun 21, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Lots of activity?
It’s akin to maggots engulfing a 2-week only piece of meat…
It would take a lot to get Matt Kemp. We would be looking at another Mark Teixiera trade in the making, but it would be worth every penny.
No it wouldn’t. Because after the offseason, we wouldn’t have any more pennies to keep Kemp, just like Teixiera.
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
I’d like to ask you all, what about Aubrey Huff? In other news, could you all please explain to me just what is wrong with Josh Willingham? He was good when he was with the Nats.
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
Huff is in his mid 30s and regressing...
no thanks. His numbers this year are back to what they were the year before last.
Willingham is also entering his mid 30s and the backside of a career. He was also never that good in the first place. Not bad, but his bat, while solid, was never anything special. A decent hitter winding down a decent career. Again, no thanks.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Jun 21, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
What is wrong with Josh Willingham, in list form
1.His BB rates are tanking and his K rates are spiking, mainly because he is swinging at more pitches out of the zone.
2.His ISO is eroding,continuing a trend over the past few years.
3.His BABIP and HR/FB% are normal, meaning that regression is not imminent.
4. He continues to be a horrific liability in the field (at a non-premium position) and on the basepaths.
5.He’s 31, not a good sign for a declining hitter.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 21, 2011 12:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just don’t want to. I’m a lazy person. I would say I’m as lazy as gondee, but I’m afraid of the ban-hammer by yondaime.
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
I know I give you a hard time, but it really isn’t personal, just good fun and hopefully we can break you in for the active participation in our community that you seem to desire. But it is impossible to undervalue the importance of stats especially if you want to engage in an active baseball debate.
Now to completely ignore my above advice, getting Josh Willingham would be like chatting up the hot blonde bombshell at the bar and then leaving with her Quasimodo-like ginger friend.
The point is that Josh Willingham wouldn’t be much of an improvement over what he wouldn’t even be in the top 5 batters we have currently and that isn’t the kind of trade you try to broker to help an under-performing team. I never thought Josh Willingham is good and a quick glance at his career and 2011 numbers make it a no-brainer.
What’s wrong with Willingham?
His walk rate fell from 15% in 2010 to under 9% now. That’s the lowest he’s had it in a full season. At the same time, his strikeout rate increased from 23% to over 33%, the highest it’s ever been. His contact is down across the board, while he’s swinging at more pitches out of the zone and fewer in the zone relative to 2010, not really a great combination.
He’s also a pretty bleh fielder and generally has been for his career. UZR has him being weirdly decent in 2008, but that’s the only year, and I don’t think that makes a lot of sense.
Basically, he’s nowhere near the player he looked like in 2009 and 2010 right now, and his 2008 fWAR is misleading because I don’t understand how he could be good according to defensive metrics in one year and become below average in the two years after that.
by Ivan the Great on Jun 21, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
His walk rate fell along with his production rate. If you are unable to hit the ball to any kind of effect then walking is bound to improve. To help crystallize this point, he has struck out, this year, 76 times in 257 AB versus 85 times in 450 ABs last year. Considering that his BA has dropped 37 points, we can assume that some of those BB are from unsucessful ABs that might previously have been hits. I definitely don’t want that.
What???
Hunter Pence never played CF? Might want to look that one up; in fact, he’s a better defensive CF than Kemp, whose defense is pretty mediocre. With the potential to regress big time, though the Dodgers won’t see things that way, and the peripheral stats suggesting it will, Kemp makes far less sense to me than Pence. Worse fielder, costs more, less likely to be around long term, and though he’s the better hitter, I don’t think the margin going forward is this big
by McCann's the Man on Jun 21, 2011 9:14 AM EDT reply actions
fielding percent? Are you kidding me? Kemp routinely takes bad routes to the ball and so in fact does not have better range. Never use fielding percent, especially when it’s that close, as your big justification for who is a better defender. You don’t get charged with an error if you don’t get to the ball, doesn’t mean it was good defense
by McCann's the Man on Jun 21, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
"Do it Right, Do it Light"
Should also apply to Rosterbating in the FanPost section…
I haven't read all the replies...
but you aren’t trading for Matt Kemp. That is the one player the Dodgers will keep, period. Is he worth it, nah, not really. He will be good in L.A. L.A. fits his lifestyle. He wasn’t having a down year last year when he broke up with Rihanna. He was having a down year while dating her.
His head is in the right place this year. He still sucks at defense. Ethier saves him quite often. He will regress, especially if the Dodgers fall fully out of it. At 7.5 GB, they are still in it this year, especially in that division. Another reason to not get him, is that he is going to get paid, especially by the Dodgers. He is their meal ticket, and he will ride that wave all the way in.
As for available Dodgers, Ethier, Loney, Carroll are the few that could be traded and have some value. Pence has been mentioned on, oh, several FanPosts. I don’t think he is leaving Houston, unless you trade the world for him. Same for Bourne. Those are the core of their team. That would be like asking the Braves for McCann and/or Heyward. Sure, they will talk, but it will cost. Just have to see. Houston might have the best pieces, but it will all depend on what you want to give up. With new ownership, they will want a haul. Guess you could always try the Padres.
Will have to check if he has played there...
He probably could, since he plays RF. He can hit LHP to some degree. That is how he gets out of his slumps usually.
B-R has him with about a full season worth of starts in LF
that’s all he played as a rookie in 06, and some more his next two years in the league. He hasn’t since 08 though, but as you say, if he plays RF he can play LF.
His career ops vs righties is .915, vs. lefties only .676. He’d still be a great addition, but it’d just make for a very left-sided heart of the order with him, Heap, Heyward, and Freeman.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
oops, meant to include the link to his Baseball-reference D stats...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/ethiean01.shtml#standard_fielding::none
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Kemp or Either
I must admit they were the first two on my mind
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Oswalt doesn’t need to save the Rangers, he only needs to provide insurance and depth
- James Loney: Umpires should call pitches from behind mound — and be robots with replay
- Magglio Ordonez set to retire after 15 seasons
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
