Braves Getting Aggressive In Search Of Hitting
by gondeee on Jun 17, 2011 2:43 PM EDT
in Braves Trade News
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PrintI called it a week ago when the entire Atlanta Braves starting outfield was on the disabled list. General Manger Frank Wren and company are not going to sit on their hands and wait any longer, they're are going to go trade for someone to help this team sooner rather than later. From Jayson Stark's Rumblings and Grumblings:
The Braves are outpitching just about every team in baseball -- including the Phillies. But the Braves continue to worry about an offense that ranks 12th in the National League and 22nd in the big leagues in runs scored per game. So they're aggressively positioning themselves to deal for an outfield bat as soon as they can find a team ready to open its sell-off shop for business. They've checked in on both Josh Willingham and Hunter Pence. And an exec of one team reports: "They want a right-handed bat. But at this point, I think they'd take any bat."
These offensive woes should be on full display for the next week, as the Atlanta faces the good hitting American League teams of Texas and Toronto. If the offense can't keep up with those teams, then I'd expect a bit more panic (and sense of urgency) from the club in the coming weeks. Though I'm also worried about two things, (1) if they rush a trade they may not get a player who is the right fit for Atlanta, and (2) they may wind up trading too much talent for that not right player.
Before any deal I would expect the Braves to wait until they are back to full strength when Nate McLouth, Brandon Beachy, and Martin Prado return. Give that full team a week or two to play up to the level they should be at, then see where you're at.
Feel free to speculate as to whom you'd like to see the Braves acquire in a trade (realistically, of course). I'm not necessarily opposed to adding the Praying Mantis, but he's likely overvalued by Houston, and not quite the difference maker we need. Willingham is kind of meh.
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Willingham is hitting .231
I would be pissed if they added yet another bat who struggles to hit .300. Our offense is already filled with inconsistent hitters, I would like to see them add someone who can actually break the .300 avg. mark, and add some consistency to the lineup
"I still feel like I have something to offer, and the cynical fan can really kiss my ass. I really don’t care. There’s a bunch of true fans and the people who actually want to take the time to get to know me know who I am. The guy who sits in his mom’s basement and types on his mom’s computer, I couldn’t really care less about." - Chipper Jones
Josh Willingham would bat 275-280 hit 25-30 homeruns, and drive in 80-100 rbis in LF.
He can also play 1st base and rest freddie when a lefty is pitching if we want. Reyes would be the best deal but his money is the problem. He will demand 20-25 million a year, while Josh Willingham gets 6 mill a year. I know Josh Willingham alot and I know he would be happier in Atlanta and play better.Forget the 231 avg. think of what I said because that would be the player we get in Atlanta.
Couple of things about Willingham
1.This year, his BB% has tanked and his K-rate is way up. However, his plate discipline stats are essentially unchanged. 2.Despite his struggles, his BABIP and HR/FB% are nearly perfectly lined up with his career norms, meaning regression isn’t necessarily imminent. 3.His ISO is dropping, continuing a trend that has happened over the past few years. 4. His batted ball profile shows he has traded four percent of his line drives for ground balls this year, which is concerning. 5.He continues to be a liability defensively an on the base
by OrangeBravo on Jun 18, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Couple of things about Willingham
1.This year, his BB% has tanked and his K-rate is way up. However, his plate discipline stats are essentially unchanged. 2.Despite his struggles, his BABIP and HR/FB% are nearly perfectly lined up with his career norms, meaning regression isn’t necessarily imminent. 3.His ISO is dropping, continuing a trend that has happened over the past few years. 4. His batted ball profile shows he has traded four percent of his line drives for ground balls this year, which is concerning. 5.He continues to be a liability both defensively (at a non-premium position) and on the basepaths
Seeing as he is 31, I want absolutely no part of Willingham.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 18, 2011 6:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What does everyone think it would take for Pence?
and what is kind of going unmentioned, where is this outfield bat going to play? We’re not going to move Nate. So Nate to the bench, Prado to CF and give Chip 2 days a week off when Nate plays? Any chance Uggla agrees to sit the bench for the benefit of the team? Does that benefit the team?
I would assume Gondeee is right on about Pence being overvalued, combined with 2 more years of his services. I would think a combo of Minor, Delgado/Vizcaino, and a decent position prospect would be carefully considered by Houston.
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
"I would think a combo of Minor, Delgado/Vizcaino, and a decent position prospect would be carefully considered by Houston."
I’d take Minor, Delgado, and someone else for Pence.
We have good hitting prospects, but we have only 1 or 2 legit pitching prospects.
Our GM, Ed Wade, isn’t the brightest guy. He still thinks we can make the playoffs, even though we are 25-45. However, he has publicly announced (‘bout time) his frustration for the team’s poor play. It’s a no-brainer for us to trade Michael Bourn, Hunter Pence, and Wandy Rodriguez, but Ed Wade hasn’t realized it yet.
Would I do a Pence for Minor-Delgado trade? Absolutely. As long as that third player isn’t too mediocre. Minor and Delgado are your two biggest pitching prospects, so I imagine the third player isn’t going to be no more than a grade C prospect, maybe a C+. Depends on how badly your FO wants Hunter.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
tbh
i wouldnt do Minor + Delgado
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
How about Minor and Vizcaino?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i wouldnt do that either
Minor + a pitching prospect not named Teheran/Vizcaino/Delgado/Perez
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Alright.
I guess I’d settle for that.
I’m guesing Teheran is definitely not available?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
no he is not
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
I'd give up Perez
I’m not saying he can’t be great but the kid has a long way to go…
by UpstateNyBravesFan on Jun 18, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
during the broadcast last night
Joe Simpson said he talked to a HOU scout that said he had been watching alot of Braves prospects and Delgado was their favorite pitcher in our system.
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
I could live
with a Minor + Delgado package if we got Pence.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jun 18, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
What would it take to get Beltran, and could he hold up in CF with Prado and Heyward both having + to ++ range in the corners?
If you wanted to get creative- put Prado in CF, Beltran in LF and Heyward in RF. Schafer would get starts when Chipper/Beltran need a day off.
I want nothing to do with Beltran
Old Hoss is ready.
by Taylor Masters on Jun 17, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
fourthed
CEO and Founder of the Hire Bill Cowher for 2012 Bandwagon.
Pack your bags, TS and JI.
by DolphinNation on Jun 17, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Braves are going to look for an outfield upgrade
When what they really need to upgrade is at second base. A big portion of their offensive can be attributed to getting absolutely terrible production out of second base. Either they think that’s going to improve, in which case the need for another bat is diminished, or else they do NOT think it’s going to improve, in which case they should consider benching Uggla. Now, maybe the extra outfield help is actually going to send Prado back to play second base…I don’t know. Still think they’re looking at this wrong.
Of course, and this is beating a dead horse, but we could always trade for this guy. Then again, I hear he’s a total schmuck. Still, he WOULD upgrade the offense.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
we have a great 2B in the OF
The question is does Uggla stay on the bench?
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
Not much though unless he was hot...
the Dodgers are 8.5 out, maybe we wow ’em for Matt Kemp, who could slide to a more appropriate LF if Schafer is ready. Would cost an arm and an arm to get him (like Jurrjens, Delgado, Oberholtzer, and more) but could be worth it.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Maybe I have missed this, but is Kemp actually on the market? Or rumored to be? I know the McCourts are a financial mess right now, but I can’t see them moving Kemp.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
They are 8.5 out...
and struggling to make payroll. Offer them enough prospects (again it may take Jurrjens, Delgado, Oberholtzer, and more, maybe a Texiera type package), and they just might bite since it might also make the difference between him making payroll or forfeiting everything to MLB while they delay his TV deal to force a breaking point.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Yes – I would at least try to overwhelm them. Even if we regret it in the morning.
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
Bingo...
see what it takes to overwhelm the Dodgers. Or even the Brewers (Braun) or Pirates (McCutcheon). We’ve got the pieces to pay and enough youth on the roster now and near ready to weather any significant loss of a couple premium arms.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Would McCutchen be available for the right price? He would be an interesting addition to the Braves, much like Shafer on steroids (ha!).
by SwedishBrave on Jun 17, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
No chance of him being available. Same for Braun, who won’t be available until roughly the next decade.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
There’s the big problem that no trade is going to cover up. Unless we’re shipping off Uggla, we still have a super massive blackhole in the lineup. A hole so massive it not only eats at bats, but a $12 million salary.
by CourtesyLaughs on Jun 17, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe we should be looking at 2nd basemen?
Uggla HAS to eventually turn it around, but patience is running low. Or maybe look for a left fielder, and move Prado back to 2nd.
"Sports is human life in microcosm."
Howard Cosell
Thing is that creates a new set of problems rather than solving them. OF is the way to go obviously.
Agreed
For better or for worse, I don’t think that Uggla is losing his everyday job at 2B. Even if he’s hitting .150 in the 8 hole, I can’t imagine that Fredi will let a player like Uggla ride the pine rather than letting him work out his problems – especially when Uggla is one of Fredi’s faves.
McLouth...
I’m not sure the Braves will wait around to see what he “adds” to the offense. I think that question is answered. However, when Prado comes back..
Prado
Heyward
Jones
McCann
Freeman
Gonzo
Schafer
Pitcher
Uggla
The Braves are really counting on Heyward to create some pop in the lineup. If not, the demise of Uggla makes us a tame hitting team.
Twitter:ChopAttack
We're almost kind of stuck.
There’s a terrible combination of what we need, what we can and will give up, and how many people are legally allowed to play at the same time.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Jun 17, 2011 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
yeah, I can’t see how a trade solves this lineup’s biggest problem. Uggla is untradable/unbenchable/undemotable and he’s just huge hole in the lineup.
Twitter:ChopAttack
If we traded for Pence
Not only would that be a tremendous upgrade for this season, but the future as well. I’m almost certain this is Chipper’s final year. Which would give us this for 2012:
3B Prado
RF Heyward
LF Pence
C McCann
2B Uggla
1B Freeman
SS Gonzalez ( I’m all about giving him a 1-2 year deal)
CF Schafer
(ON PAPER) that is a damn good lineup
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
Prado isn’t a born leadoff hitter. This is my lineup in response to yours:
CF Schafer
3B Prado
RF Heyward
C McCann
LF Pence
2B Uggla
1B Freeman
SS Gonzalez
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
I'll take it either way
And I completely agree that he isn’t a leadoff hitter. But having his OBP in front of them is great. Maybe swap Schafer and the Pitcher to start the year?
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
TWSS
but really…
i don’t want the pitcher leading off. gettin a little ahead of ourselves, we may not even keep gonzalez around
"Welcome to the show, Brandon Beachy. I think you’re going to stay a while."
I like Gonzalez,
but I think you at least have to go after Reyes during the offseason. Mets are about to have a fire sale, and they won’t re-sign him
by Bmacbandwagon on Jun 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The Mets would definately be selling Reyes high right now. But it sure would be an upgrade over Sea-bass, no matter how well I like the guy.
by SwedishBrave on Jun 17, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on the past few years
Wren has been pretty keen on making deals beneath the surface of the daily rumor mill (McLouth, Ankiel/Farnsworth, Gonzo/Esocbar, maybe others I’m forgetting). With that in mind, I wouldn’t be surprised if he pulls off some type of deal that nobody is expecting.
Also keeping the past in mind, FW has been extremely reluctant to pull the trigger on any deal involving any of our top pitching prospects. Should we expect that trend to continue these days? Or has the club moved past the “stock up prospects/rebuild” phase and into the “we need to win and win now” mentality? It feels like we’re blessed with an odd predicament. We have oodles and oodles of young talent to build around, but we’re also in position to win today.
I hope they never get in the win now mentality. I like stocking the farm, and keeping it stocked.
I’m willing to trade a few pieces but not the entire farm for a win now theme!
by TCfromDubVee on Jun 17, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The last move that Frank Wren characterized as a "Win now," move
Was trading away Yunel Escobar, who is hitting really well right now. I hope he never again makes a “Win now,” move.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
This
Even with Escobar probably having plenty of good years ahead of him, I’m much happier with drama-free SeaBass and so apparently is virtually everyone else in the dugout. It’s not like Gonzalez is worthless by any means…and remember too that Yunel has also gone to a hitter’s paradise up in Toronto, folks.
Oh, and keeping the farm stocked is great but one of the biggest reasons why it’s great is because it lets you make that “win this year” trade better than less-stocked teams. We have a glut in pitching and can easily afford to lose Minor, Beachy, or dare I say Medlen or JJ if it gets us a truly redeeming bat in the lineup.
by crimsonqueen9 on Jun 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a hitter's paradise
It’s got a slightly short porch in left, it’s not Coors Field, Wrigley, Fenway, Cincinnati’s bandbox, or that thing in Texas. In almost every year you look at the Rogers’ Center, it plays exactly neutral in terms of Park Factor.
Don’t diminish the fact that we traded someone heading into his prime and he then, predictably, began hitting really well the following season.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Umm, no. Don’t get me wrong, there’s been a couple years in which it figures neutrally, but it’s generally 7-10 in the league, and above average in runs and especially in HR.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
More than a couple, please.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml
Just look at the batter park factors, there. Last year, 101. Before that, 100. Before that, 98…100, 100, 102. It’s just slightly, slightly more favorable to hitters perhaps, but it’s certainly no hitter’s paradise.
Look at it just beyond this year, where it seems to play more favorable for the hitters. I’m convinced that at least part of that is a result of Jose Bautista absolutely breaking all metrics to measure such things.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I was using these.
Would be interesting to compare how each is calculated…
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I haven’t heard of any problems up in Toronto. I really doubt that 100% of Escobar’s problems were from him being a dick. Either way it is still a laughably bad trade.
how is it laughably bad
agon hasnt been horrible, and he has won us a couple games, pastornicky might be our ss of the future, and collins got us farnsworth and ankeil which won us a game in the NLDS
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
And Pastornicky, who could very well end up starting sometime in the next two seasons.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I think the trade wasn't really a bad one
but i can see how some people could be a little disappointed, but I can not see in any way how it is laughably bad
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Honestly
I’m glad he is gone, it was really really hard to root for him.
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Don't expect to see Pastornicky @ SS
unless it’s a stop gap role. Haven’t heard too many good things about his D there this year.
When will everyone accept...
that Prado is not and should not be our leadoff hitter? He is a dream #2 hitter in any lineup in baseball. Are there any fans anymore who actually understand our game?
He also doesn’t have the speed needed to excel at #1.
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
You don't need speed to excel as a leadoff hitter...
just a .400 obp.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
You don't need a .400 OBP to succeed there
But it’s nice to have one at least .350 and preferably higher in that spot.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Succeed =/= excel...
for the standard of “excelling” as a leadoff hitter, I’d say getting close to .400 is needed.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
One day people will realize that Schafer doesn't have a .400 OBP
yet is proving that he scores more runs in the position than anyone else and think “many the things I read aren’t 100% true”…
One day…
As said above, .400 is not required from Schafer...
if he’s having to hit leadoff, anything .350 and up would be great. Especially with his speed.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Of course, I’m not a fan of the dated notion of a prototypical leadoff hitter. Give me someone who can get on base, whoever that may be. I don’t care if it’s Prado, Schafer, McLouth, or Heyward.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I think I'd prefer Prado there
over some others. I like a .300 hitter behind the position where even the saber-heads agree the Sac Bunt is the best strategy…
If the Braves wait until they have their starters back, who will they trade for him? We shall not trade:
-Heyward
-Prado
-Jones
-McCann
-Freeman
-Uggla
-Gonzalez
-maybe Schafer, IDK
-Ross
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
we wouldn’t even get one of those 12-tace party things for all of them
by crimsonqueen9 on Jun 17, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Michael Cuddyer?
He’s a RH hitter that can play corner outfield, corner infield and has even played some second base.
He’s also a free agent at the end of the year.
Twitter: @TAlmeyda
What kind of money will it take if we sign him this offseason?
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
Most likely US currency
Maybe he’d settle for Euro or Yen
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
Boo to Cuddyer
Blech. He’s always a coinflip as to whether he’s going to be productive hitter or just a waste of space in any given season.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Cuddyer is the best suggestion I've seen here yet
Should be a fairly cheap get, mashes LHP, is versatile, isn’t completely over the hill. I like it… make it happen!
What kind of bullpen arms might we be able to trade? Linebrink? Sherrill?
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
We need Moylan and Medlen to come back.
O’Ventbrel is being used way too much.
"Sports is human life in microcosm."
Howard Cosell
they would most likely only get a return of prospects...
I doubt we get anything more than the type of return we got with Ankiel
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
For the love of all things good
Please get a quality bat, having a good season and trade Minor instead of Beachy. I think Beachy has proven to be far more effective at the Major level than Minor.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
This.
It kind of seems like Minor is the latest version of Jo-Jo Reyes. You know, the kind of guy who dominates in AAA but sucks at the big league level.
"Sports is human life in microcosm."
Howard Cosell
I figure he has potential, but his head is holding him back. Plus he’s a lefty with good potential, should be worth a little more. I also have a mancrush on Beachy.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Agreed.
If we want to bring in an outfielder, Minor should be included in the package. And I, too, have fallen victim to Beachy’s awesomeness.
"Sports is human life in microcosm."
Howard Cosell
A FanShot also reflected on the Braves shopping. The link is an article from MLBTR noting the Braves. This is a comment from the first person to comment on the article:
I’ll take Teheran and Delgado for Willingham straight-up. >_> << >> Hey, that’s not much worse than what they gave up for 34 minutes of Mark Teixeira.
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
Hope that’s a joke
Old Hoss is ready.
by Taylor Masters on Jun 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If we traded for Pence...
The only thing that I could think of is that Prado would play two days at LF and 3B and then 1at 2B, and 1B a week. This would give Pence, Uggla, Freeman and Heyward 1 day off a week and Chipper 2 days off…On Heyward’s day off you move Pence to RF. I don’t see any other way that Pence helps us. Our offense is a hard lineup to add to because of the fact that we have an aging superstar at 3b, a second baseman in the OF already and a lot of stars that have been under performing. It will be hard to fix by addition without totally pissing somebody off.
Please no Hunter Pence
It’s completely irrational, the numbers do not support me, and it’s more based on a gut feeling than anything else, but I do not want Hunter Pence on this team.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
But he has a 23 game hit streak in the pitcher-friendly Minute Maid park! The previous sentence was brought to you by Sarcasm Co. “Where the jokes here are fresher than the cat’s meow!” Cheers!
The previous paragraph is horse-donk.
Ryan's the name, Call of Duty and Braves baseball's the game.
Twitter: @RyanMarby
I wouldn't be pissed at Alfonso Soriano...
send ’em McLouth and Kawakami, they send Soriano and $40-45m? He can at least still slug it. They want him gone yesterday, and we can use the bat. Hopefully flip him and the cash to an AL team where he could DH.
I’m just tired of half assed solutions. Hunter Pence isn’t bad, but he’s not going to make a difference in this offense. We’ve got the pieces to go big, then do the damn thing and quit pissing in to the wind. Go spend a premium price in prospects and an MLB starter and bring back a premium bat.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Cost in that scenario...
you’re relieving the Cubs of a big obligation, while Pence would cost beaucoup prospects. Soriano leaves a lot to be deisred in obp, but can still slug above .500. He’s got another good year or two left in him, and if the Cubs throw in enough cash makes it worthwhile. With Pence, it’s arguable that you’d be getting any better of a hitter, and perhaps worse going on their numbers last year, at a MUCH higher cost.
If we’re gonna pay the price for Pence, why not throw in one more big arm and get a definite difference maker at the plate.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Soriano gets a bad rap....
other than one season a couple years back, he’s produced well. 9 years out of 10 above .800 ops, and currently slugging over .500.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Pence’s numbers are comparable, while Soriano has a career slg of over .500 (.508) while Pence’s is at .484, Career OPS+ for Pence is 118 versus Soriano’s 113. Their career numbers are similar and just this year I think Pence has the slight edge on the power of his career high .326 BA, but other than that and a significantly higher OBP the numbers this year are comparable and only slightly in Pence’s favor.
So you either think Pence is coming in to his prime at 27/28....
or a McLouth waiting to happen. Something about him makes me think McLouth.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
McLouth’s career year (2008) isn’t that much better than Pence’s worse year in 2008. However, Pence has had 4 years with an OPS+ 114 and above and is on pace for 144 this year (Which I doubt will happen but he can easily make 125/130.
I think Pence is coming into his prime and I don’t see much in the way of comparisons with McLouth.
I see what you are saying, but that is making a pretty big assumption that isn’t really supported by anything other than hypotheticals.
I think of Brad Hawpe
Like I said above, it’s a lot of unsupported, more gut-feeling, but Pence is a guy I have pegged to fall off a cliff once he hits 30, give or take a year. Like Brad Hawpe, both have odd batting stances, bat wags, twitches, and everyone seemed to love Brad Hawpe and want him at some point too.
Today, Brad Hawpe is batting .236/.307/.351 with 66K in 192AB. There’s no numbers that can really identify such tendencies, but I just think that Pence is eventually going to fall off a similar cliff, and I’d rather it be in Houston than Atlanta.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
The stats and career are pretty similar with a few exceptions. First, Hawpe didn’t have a stellar rookie season and in fact had his first break-out season 2 and a half seasons into his career.
Secondly, Brad Hawpe in his 7 year career has only played 152 games once and 150 twice. He has only played 145 games three times in his career. Pence, however, has played 155 games in each of his first 3 full seasons (157, 159, 156 from 2008-2011) and is on pace to do so again. He is a workhorse whose already impressive performances have come when he was getting nearly every AB possible, which gives them a bit more depth in my mind and speaks a lot about the type of player that he is.
Another important point is that Brad Hawpe is showing a big split between his first and second halves splits (OPS+ 104-93) while Hunter Pence is remarkably similar with an OPS+ of 100 avg in both halves over his career. However, the BA discrepancy is only 12 points .296 to .284 verus Hawpe’s split of .288 to .257)
There is a lot in the stats that undermines the connection between Hawpe and Pence, a connection that only really exists in the gut and eyes alone, but the primary difference is the consistency of Pence. A player who has shown the consistency that he has while being an everyday-player doesn’t seem a very high candidate for falling off the cliff, batting stance quirks be damned.
I like numbers and all
But there’s not a single number you could throw at me that would make me change my stance on this, no offense, and I do understand your argument.
I don’t want Hunter Pence on the Braves, period. If the team makes it happen, I’ll learn to live with it, and cheer for him, and hope he can produce his career average numbers for this team, and further hope that it makes a noticeable difference. If he completely proves me wrong throughout his career, great, wouldn’t be the first time I’ve completely whiffed on an assertion, but as far as my opinions lie, Hunter Pence isn’t worth it.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Yea, we can disagree on his future but I think we can agree that Hunter Pence won’t be worth what the Astros will be asking for him
Plus
Hunter Pence is all gangly and goofy looking, and I like my Braves standardized, all looking handsome and clean-cut, and not all snaggle-toothed and goofy and it bothers me that he chokes up on the bat so much and wears a batting glove on one hand like it’s 1993.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
No professional athlete should be allowed to run the way he does.
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
by Chipper Pwns on Jun 17, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree with Soriano
He can mash LHP and we could prolly trade Lowe for him and still get some extra salary in the deal.
in fantasy, to relieve themselves of the obligation to pay Soriano....
you take on what would be about $3m remaining in salary (make it $6-7 if you include McLouth), to rid yourself of around $20m, and help expedite the process of getting out bad eggs you don’t want.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I see where you’re coming from. How did we not pawn KK off on the Uggla deal?
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Now there's a creative idea
I’m not sold that Soriano would be the difference maker we’d want him to be (or even stay healthy enough to make that difference), but that’s definitely a new angle. I’m scared of the extra commitment on the back end of that contract though. I can already see it turning into Mike Hampton 2.0.
Pence
If they make a move for an OF vat look for Heyward to move to CF and Schafer will be the 4th OF
LF Prado
CF Heyward
C McCann
RF Pence
3B Chipper
1B Freeman
2B Uggla
SS Gonzalez
by tombowski02 on Jun 17, 2011 3:29 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I like the idea of returning Prado to super utility who plays 6 days a week than moving Heyward to CF.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Rotate days off for chipper, Uggla, Freeman and the two corner OFers, lol sounds good maybe Gonzo too but I dont think Prados ever played short ( not that he can’t, he probably could) why not give the guy a spot start too, at least to relieve the bullpen, he could do it!
by tombowski02 on Jun 17, 2011 3:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m totally agreeing with you dude, lol
by tombowski02 on Jun 17, 2011 4:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We just need to convince Joey Bats not to go back to Toronto and to just stay with us in Atlanta.
"I'll give any teller who gives me a lollipop 4 stars."-Chip Kelly
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Jun 17, 2011 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
The offense
would still be improved.
Our crappy lucky team *WAS* better than your good unlucky team.
That's what I was about to say.
"I'll give any teller who gives me a lollipop 4 stars."-Chip Kelly
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Jun 17, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt LaPorta
What about this guy, he was a good prospect for a good bit, hasn’t shown the full potential in Cleveland, but this guy can play. And he can play outfield and come in and play first base if needed too….good bat, solid power….wouldn’t have a huge price tag above his name. I will probably make some Georgia fans mad as he is a Gator Grad.
I just want a proven player, or at least a player with a good season so far. I’m tired of high talent but no offense.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Yea you dont go out and make a trade based on your teams problems thus far that is essentially taking a flier on the guy. I want a proven player as well.
Remember that time we got a proven player who hit no less than 27 homers in each of years in the majors, never putting up a slugging percentage below .450, a wRC+ below 105, and an fWAR below 2.7?
I am so terrified of trading anything for any hitter right now it’s insane.
What was the last time we brought in outside hitting talent that was both 1) at least league-average and 2) worth roughly as much we gave up to get it?
I feel like it must be selective memory, but on the offensive side of things, we’ve been subjected to the meh parade of Uggla, McLouth, Ankiel, Sea Bass, Kotchman, Kotsay, Church…
Hell, if we expand it to FA pickups on the offensive side of things… Glaus had a good 45 days, FUGA was FUGA… I must be forgetting something, but were JD Drew and Gary Sheffield really the last time we had great non-homegrown hitters play for us?
by Ivan the Great on Jun 17, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Freeman, Nate, and Kawakami possibly an arm for Pujols..
any takers? this coming from a big fan of freeman..lol this would rid us of nate and KK…its good to dream right? now let the facepalming begin.
The poster formally known as SidGlaus
Only thing that worries me with Pence
Is that with the Astros, he has no pressure. They suck. Nate McClouth was an All-Star with the Pirates and was traded to a competitive team fighting for the playoffs and has mostly sucked for us. Hopefully Pence wouldn’t do that.
Tonight's lineup:
Schafer 8
Uggla 4
Heyward 9
McCann 2
Freeman 3
Gonzalez 6
Hinske 7
Conrad 5
Delgado 1
"I'll give any teller who gives me a lollipop 4 stars."-Chip Kelly
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Jun 17, 2011 3:38 PM EDT reply actions
Conrad gets rewarded for a big hit. However, I don’t like his defense at 3B.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
I don't like his defense at 2nd base in the 2010 NLDS.
Too soon?
"I'll give any teller who gives me a lollipop 4 stars."-Chip Kelly
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Jun 17, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Posey was out.
Posey is out… too soon? Sorry TL2.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Conrad gets rewarded
Because Chipper’s hurtin and Hicks/Diory/Whoever sucks.
Our crappy lucky team *WAS* better than your good unlucky team.
Diory pretty much won us the game yesterday after Sea Bass’s pathetic showing resulting in the vidro. I’m not going to blast Diory for a while now.
by Ivan the Great on Jun 17, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You could totally tell gonzo had zero desire to bunt, the guys a hitter, he needs to be more like Prado in the “team” sense but the look on his gave clearly said “bunting is beneath me”
by tombowski02 on Jun 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
hahahaah
you act like he makes more than one face.
by M.artin V. P.rado on Jun 17, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha! Youre right! It must have been the look in his eyes
by tombowski02 on Jun 17, 2011 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Now how do we know
that the next player the Braves get isn’t going to suck like the previous two that came here?
by Brvsball on Jun 17, 2011 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Excellent question. Nobody knows, but the recent pas tells that the player acquired will do next to nothing to the Braves win. The lone exception is D. Lee. He did add 1.0 WAR to the Braves stretch run which is exactly the margin they won the wild card championship by on the last day of the season.
by Tomahawk Mafia on Jun 17, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Infante, Diaz, Teixeira, and Renteria are the only players to put up more than 2 oWAR for us that were not homegrown since 2005. Even then, Diaz was not really a high-profile acquisition, so I’m not sure how relevant he is to this discussion. Tex obviously cost the farm, but at least he produced, even if no one else managed to at the time.
Given the number of offensive acquisitions we’ve made in the last few seasons, it’s scary that so few have panned out. I guess Derrek Lee at least gets some credit for holding down the first-base fort and helping us get into the playoffs.
The best thing I think for the Braves to do right now
is to wait for the lineup to get healthy again. Then lets see where the Braves are at. I know this offense is struggling and we seem desperate for some offense right now, but the trade deadline is still more than a month and a half away. Lets wait and see what happens.
thats assuming
our lineup will ever get healthy. one comes up, one goes down
by M.artin V. P.rado on Jun 17, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Asdrubal Cabrera
In my mind, shortstop is clearly the spot that needs upgrading. Gonzo has been great with the glove this year, but he really is a drain on our offense and he’s in the last year of his deal. Swing a trade for a young, talented SS and you fill your need for years to come.
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
We have a couple decent SS prospects who should be in the majors in a year or two.
Pastornicky and Lipka. I don’t think SS is the position to break open the prospect vault for. Furthermore, there are very few good major league SS around right now, which would make the asking price exorbitantly high. Also Cleveland probably fancies itself as a contender right now, so they’re probably not trading their best performing position player. I think we’re better off accepting Gonzo as a low-moderate cost guy who will give a low-moderate performance overall, for this year and possibly in the future.
love it
I love watching Cabrera play.
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it sounds good…., but the indians won’t be looking to downgrade at SS (unfortunately, you picked a year in which they’re actually competing… at least for now. I suppose you’d offer Seabass and a back of the rotation pitcher?
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
I wouldn’t be opposed to it, as long as his defense is sound. For better or worse, Gonzo covers, and has to cover, a large area of the field.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
his d is amazing
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. I’ll have to talk to my resident Indian fans and see what they think lol.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
look up the game from last night.
he had an amazing play.
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Do we dare ...
Go after another Pirate CF in Andrew McCutchen? He’s currently hitting .290 with 10HR.
by Sevenpointthree on Jun 17, 2011 4:33 PM EDT reply actions
Hes not a leadoff though, so where would you put him?
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Let Prado hit leadoff
And McCutchen could fit in anywhere 2-5. I wouldn’t be averse to hitting McCutchen leadoff anyway, though. But the Pirates probably aren’t dealing him without getting a huge return. Like Teixeira-sized, if not bigger.
andrew has had a lot of issues lead off
and the general consensus around here is that prado is not a leadoff guy. Just going with the flow
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, I see. In that scenario though, we would only be able to do the best with what we would have available, right? I don’t think anyone else would quite fit the bill as a leadoff hitter, so Prado would probably be the best choice in that case.
Besides, it’s not like having a prototypical leadoff guy is a necessity; it’s more of a luxury. As long as the hitters produce, I don’t really care where they bat.
agreed
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Cutch is really settling in as a #3 hitter.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
The Pirates
Wouldn’t give up McCutchen. Not a chance.
Their bullpen is really really doing well this year so that isn’t a need. Jurrjens would be a huge asset, but their starting rotation isnt a problem so far, and they are developing some quality arms in their minors. They need offense, we have none to give. They may be interested in Gonzo though.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Wow. That’s close to overwhelming…. Add Schafer and subtract …..Kimbrel or Delgado.
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
(that to maybe pacify the loss of offense a little)
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
They'd be foolish if they did.
That is one major package. I love McCutchen, yet I would never offer them that much.
"Sports is human life in microcosm."
Howard Cosell
Yet we've got the pitching depth...
to spend that much. Unlike most organizations, we can give up 3 premium arms, 3 potential front of the rotation arms, and not blink an eye with the depth of Hoover, Teheran, Delgado, Minor, Beachy, Medlen, Hanson, Oberholtzer, Vizcaino, and then young arms like Perez, Espinosa, Gilmartin, etc, plus Hudson and Lowe holding down rotation spots the next two years (maybe 3-4 for Huddy). It’s not like we’d be lacking pitching even after forking over that kind of package.
You lose Kimbrel, but bring in another potential stud closer in Vizcaino as Venters works it now. Lose Jurrjens, replace with Teheran. Delgado, well there’s Beachy or Hoover or Minor or Medlen to fill that rotation spot. Oberholtzer, see Gilmartin. We can take that hit in arms.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Those 4 for McCutcheon? Yes, I would
as said above, we’ve got the arms to take that hit and keep trucking. Venters becomes full time closer, Teheran takes Jurrjens spot in the rotation. The other two are prospects backfilled by others.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Look, we have a historic level of depth in pitching… and an offense that… well, isn’t. You’ve got a very large bullet to use — do it… but be VERY sure you get somethings worth it (for at least 2 years) in return.
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
That's the main reason I'd do it...
now I’ve got my core to build around…
McCutcheon
Heyward
McCann
Prado
Freeman
you’ve still got Chipper, and hopefully 1 if not 2 good years of Uggla in the next 4. That’s a good core to your lineup, and you still have plenty of arms to keep this pitching train rolling.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Yes
Teheran + Schafer + Salcedo MIGHT be interesting for them.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jun 18, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
You do realize that it would take a ton to get him, right?
"I'll give any teller who gives me a lollipop 4 stars."-Chip Kelly
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Jun 17, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
A ton as in our whole ML lineup, the Mississippi Braves, and the Lynchburg Hillcats.
"I'll give any teller who gives me a lollipop 4 stars."-Chip Kelly
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Jun 17, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
At least that would end the Kawakami saga
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
theres no way
we’re getting him from pittsburgh. they are pretending to compete this year, and i feel like he’s one of the most untouchable guys in the MLB. a complete offensive center fielder
by M.artin V. P.rado on Jun 17, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok .. another route
How about a kid we’re playing this series … Mitch Moreland. He’s hitting .300 with 8 HR. Can play LF, RF or 1B. Might could get him cheaper. Not a superstar, but an up and coming guy that could help us.
by Sevenpointthree on Jun 17, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
True. We don’t have a large sample section on him, but we could get him a lot cheaper. Also, he played well for them in the playoffs last year. And he’s still showing good power numbers this year.
by Sevenpointthree on Jun 17, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we are undervalueing him
they don’t have much faith in Davis, and they were okay with trading Smoak because of this guy. Sure they could use Young but then what about next year?
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
I have him on my fantasy team
and I must say he has been helpful. He is having a good season, though I don’t know how we will do long term.
by AtlantaBravos on Jun 17, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
pence
"My everything, or nothing. My everything, or nothing. WE gonna fight, til we can't fight no more. We gonna lie down, and bleed a while. Gonna get up, and fight again." -Tashard Choice
by SouthernPanther on Jun 17, 2011 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
Gee, I don't hear this name in the discussion....
Colby Rasmus. I think many of us (me included) would have killed to get him in the off-season. Not looking as good now, eh?
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
i think its a moot point
because STL is competing and he is actually a 4-5 tool cf, which is hard to find
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
248/349/415
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Yeah, he’s got a Chipper-esque walk rate.
Fangraphs, on Craig Kimbrel: "His strikeout rates look like they’re coming from a video game"
was just looking at his page on espn
i didn’t realize he was from Columbus, GA. It seems they grow baseball players on trees down there
and his brother is in our system
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Not that it'd work...
but you could try to sell them on a large package of near ready players so they can have a cheap group to off set what they’ll soon pay Pujols. But it’d take a big haul.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
lets clone a bunch of chippers and bring them up through the system
"To all the critiques, thank you for the motivation… because it has been an edge for me and will continue to be an edge for me" - Timmy Tebow
by David G. Little on Jun 17, 2011 5:10 PM EDT reply actions
What about Michael Bourn?
He gets on base, steals bases like noone else and doesn’t make a fool of himself in CF. It wouldn’t be the top notch bonified power bat that we all want, but maybe it could be a deal that actually would happen? With a price tag that doesn’t deplete all our farm too.
.279/.349/.384, 29 SB, 45 R, 22 RBI
I would take him over McLousy any day, and we could rotate in Schafer with Prado covering just about any position but catcher (since we have the Boss!).
I'd think the starting point of a trade for Bourn
would be Schafer… He wouldn’t be a bad pickup, but I’m not 100% that Schafer wouldn’t outproduce him from now to the rest of the year either.
i was thinking the same thing
we already have enough rbi guys with no speed (chip, bmac, freeman etc.). we need a guy that can get on base and into scoring position so they can do their job. with a lineup devoid of speed it sometimes takes us 3 hits an inning to get a run across. slot prado in the 2-hole where he belongs and move put heyward/chip/bmac in the 3-4-5.
by BravoFan1212 on Jun 17, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam Jones
Just putting another name out there. He’d definitely be an upgrade with the bat, and possibly with the glove as well. He isn’t an ideal candidate when you think “impact bat,” but it would help some.
The issue with him would be the cost in a trade. I feel like the Orioles view him as a centerpiece player when he’s really more of a complementary piece. Maybe Schafer + 1 of the non-Teheran arms would get him?
Love Adam Jones!!!!
I would love to have Adam Jones. But that puts us back into the wait for the long ball to score pattern that has been killing us if Jordan is in that trade. Big Jones fan and if we had a decission from Chipper wecould keep Jordan, I would be all for it. But no speed at the top and we would struggle to score still, it wouldn’t change much. Gotta give Jordan credit where credit is do. He has changed the way teams have to play the top of our line-up.
By the way for those wondering why I would love Adam and not some of the others? He plays great defense and is still somewhat cheap ( Money wise).
Side note!!!
McLouth, Minor ( all though I think he will be a very good pitcher),and a lower prospect for Adam and I’m all in!
4.8% walk rate
That makes Jeff Francoeur cringe.
No thankkkk you
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king success - Jordan Schafer
Ya'll are crazy.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Just saying...
if we offer Jurrjens, Kimbrel, Delgado, plus one or two others, what would the return be?
Do you think we have the pitching to withstand losing those 3 + say Oberholtzer, Hoover, Perez, among others.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Why give those three up!?!
Those three have a much higher ceiling and potential than the Tex trade, and I have yet to read a name as big as Tex that would be available.
No kidding: “Jurrjens, Kimbrel, Delgado, plus one or two others” should net you a damn Pujols, not a McClutchen or a Pence, for goodness sake.
by Kelly's Big Johnson on Jun 17, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Several years of McCutcheon or Braun wouldn't be worth that?
I think they would be.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I know I keep harping on this, but it needs to be repeated!
Where would the Braves play this new bat? That’s why I’m calling BS on these trade rumors, Until they have an answer on what Chipper plans to do. I would love Reyes, but the package will be far to rich. Jason will be in RF, Freeman at 1B, Brian at catcher, Chipper at 3B, Alex at SS, Prado in LF. SO that leaves 2B, where Uggla has been a disaster and CF. Schafer has done a very good job and of the names mentioned, none are better than Jordan defensively. So unless the Braves are ready to part with the Uggla exp ( which I would not mind at all) where are they going to play this new bat everyone wants.
On a side note, Chipper really pissed me off with his comments about a trade. Chip you have to realize ( what you told Jason Ha ha) that until you tell the Braves what you plan to do next year, you are the hold up. Your pressence keeps us from making any major move. LOL…… Okay seriously. You can’t trade for a player Of, 3B or otherwise until you know where Prado will play next year ( nuless you plan on trading Prado). You won’t know where Pradwill play untill Chipper makes his choice. Please let’s not Bret Farve this.
Honestly, I don’t think Chipper knows what he is going to do next year.
I do agree with what you said as far as trading for a bat. The only place that we could put a bat is either SS, or CF if you are not sold on Schafer keeping up the pace.
What we really need is a healthy lineup. Get Prado back, Heyward starts to feel more comfortable at the plate, and Uggla starts to hit like he should, we will be set. Huge ifs, i know.
Bench players
We could do without the Mathers, Youngs (I know fans like him) and Hickses getting starts. Is there a good trainer we can trade for? =)
Why would the Pirates even consider trading McCutchen. In saying that I think its going to be really hard for the braves to get the bat we seek. As crazy as it sounds we actually lose leverage with the pitching prospects we have. Our offense is under performing but our pitching is stellar and deep. GMs across baseball wish they had our problem, and they are sitting back and looking at Frank Wren and asking him how bad does he really want a bat. In a better world Ugly turns things around. An outfield of Heyward Prado and Schafer is going to be awesome.
Baseball is my life
They wouldn't
They’re trying to break the losing ways and set a winning mentality this year and McCutchen is a big part of that.
I would go for Tabata anyway. Younger, cheaper, RH, and he can play all 3 OF spots. Young pitcher, Beachy, for young hitter Tabata?
I agree man.
I don’t think Chip know’s what he wants to do either, that’s one of the reasons I don’t think he should have made that comment last week in the AJC. He said us not being healthy was even more of a reason why we should make a move. I know Chip wants to win, I don’t bame him for that, but FW has to make the best decission for now and the future. So he would be crazy to bring in a big money player costing a top rospect, without knowing how that player would fit in with the Braves next year and beyound. Bringing in a player that wouldn’t cost much prospect wise like a Beltran wouldn’t be a bad idea. Carlos is old enough to understand, he may not play everyday and he’s playing for a ring. But bringing in a corner OF bat without knowing Chippers plan that thinks they should play everyday, would kill out team in the clubhouse.
Best to wait until we are healthy ( baring major injury), then we can have an honest read on Jordan.
forget getting a right-handed bat
if we need to acquire anything, it’s speed on the basepaths. we have plenty of rbi producers but no one’s getting on at the top of the lineup for them. i say we either get a speedy outfielder (someone like bourn) or let schafer run with the leadoff spot and hope for the best
Considering that Hunter has been playing like an All-Star this year for us,
it’s going to take a good deal to get him. Like I said above, I’d take Minor, Delgado, and a third player for Hunter, but our FO overvalues him.
Or you guys could just give us Heyward in exchange to make things easier.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
I take it you are a Hou fan? As a Braves fan I wouldn’t give all that up for Pence. You are talking about 2 top 50 prospects.
Hmmmm
That’s what people are saying on here….
Maybe I misunderstood.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
they are saying minor or delgado
not both
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Gotcha.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind Pence in exchange for Minor and Vizcaino.
It may sound like I’m asking for too much, but Hunter has just entered his prime, and his having a hell of a season.
-Top 5 in BA
-Top 3 in doubles
-Top 5 in RBIs
-On pace for 25 homeruns
-Just turned 28
I think Minor and Vizcaino is pretty even.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
some say Vizcaino
has the potential to be = Teheran
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Wow.
Pretty impressive upside.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Pence
.391 BABIP. That explains the BA spike. Look, he’s been a .340ish wOBA guy for the past three years, which is a good not great offensive player. His OBP is completely BA driven. Houston is going to ask for us to pay for him as if he was a .380 wOBA player, and I could easily see him being a candidate for brutal regression.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 17, 2011 9:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
His higher BABIP is caused by a higher line drive percentage
His HR/FB% is the lowest it has ever been (which you could say means he might be poised to break out more), and he’s simply driving the ball better. If you watched him most nights, you’d see that he’s hitting the ball very well to the gaps and connecting with much better contact than he used to. I think his spike is legit, and he’s going to continue to produce for a while.
by Patrick Harrel on Jun 17, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
His LD%...
Is one percent higher this year…that’s not going to sustain a .391 BABIP. In fact, nothing will. He may be improving, I don’t contest that. However, he still has a sub
by OrangeBravo on Jun 17, 2011 11:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
His LD%...
Is one percent higher this year…that’s not going to sustain a .391 BABIP. In fact, nothing will. He may be improving, I don’t contest that. However, he still has a subpar walk rate. His K-rates, BB%, Plate Discipline stats, and batted ball profile are all the same. The two biggest differences this year are a massive BABIP spike and a modest dip in HR/FB%. I’m sorry, I flat out do not buy the “he’s now a new player because he’s 28 and entering his prime.” I see massive bust potential if a team were to overpay, which they would have to in order to pry Pence away.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 17, 2011 11:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Quick question:
Since Minor has been mentioned quite a bit, is he a sure thing to pan out?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
Nobody is a sure thing
but he is about as close to MLB ready as you can get
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Sounds good.
Is his ETA opening day 2012 or mid 2012?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol.
Probably.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 17, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Not just for the 'Stros
Minor is pretty much ready now. The only reason he isn’t up full time is because of the emergence of Brandon Beachy. He’s racked up two player of the week awards in the IL and has been pretty dominant.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 18, 2011 12:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just a wild thought...
Or maybe Im just dreaming, but acquiring Reyes from the Mets would be AWESOME, even if for just this year. I always loved his game and I he would be a HUGE spark on top of our lineup. Just imagine a lineup with him in it
Its going to be tough
to find a CF’er. There is no way the team will bench Uggla and move Prado to 2B.
One last question:
What is the absolute most you guys would give up for Pence?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
I guess I'd take that.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 18, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, hypothetically haha
I think Pence is a good player in the middle of an incredible year. However, what he’s done already doesn’t matter to the Braves, and the peripherals make me think he will regress to his levels the previous three years once he’s here. Thus, I’d give up Minor (solid MLB ready 3, possibly 2 starter down the road) and a solid guy like Hoover, who projects as an innings eating 4 starter. I wouldn’t give up someone like Viz/Delgado for Pence.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 18, 2011 6:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Vizcaino seems pretty unavailable.
Minor’s probably more ready right now, but someone said Vizcaino has a similar ceiling to Julio Teheran’s which is scary. You guys are going to have a scary good rotation is a few years, as it isn’t already scary enough right now.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 18, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Viz was much higher ranked than Teheran
Before last season. Teheran had a stupid good season and Viz fought injury concerns, but he has been electric this year and already been promoted. I would be afraid to let him go. I’ve heard the Phils linked to Pence with Dom Brown’s name coming up. The Braves have virtually made their top pitching talent untouchable. My guess is that the Phils will be more likely to give up their talent for immediate help than the Braves would.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 18, 2011 9:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Trade winds should be Josh Willingham. He would play alot better for the Braves
because he would be happier. He is from North Alabama. Played college ball at University of North Alabama. His family lives in Florence,AL and would be at every game which is only 4 hours away.Mr. Frank Wren, make this trade happen giving the A;s Brent O, or J.J. Hoover. A’s need pitching and we got it to give. Willingham has 10 hr’s and 43 rbis now. Expect him to put up even better numbers when he wears a braves uniform. I have know him for awhile and his dream is to play for the braves. Make it happen Mr. Wren now.You will be glad you did.
I would trade Gonzo and J.J. Hoover for Reyes today.
Gonzo is steady and does ok,but to get a game changer like Reyes I would even think about Lowe in the deal if we could sign Reyes to long term deal. I don’t see this happening because of the money deal but it would help makes us a better team and have a better chance at winning the whole thing. Reyes,Jordan Shafer,Heyward,Uggla,Jones,McCann,Freeman, Prado. McLouth,Hinske, Conrad coming off the bench. I don’t see this happening but it would stir alot of teams up and draw their attention. This is why I see Josh Willingham more of a fit.
Reyes is worth
A crapload more than Hoover. Amazin Avenue ran a trade calc, and he had something like 15 mil in surplus value.
by OrangeBravo on Jun 18, 2011 1:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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