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When Heyward comes back, where should he hit?
by ATLandUNC on May 30, 2011 10:59 PM EDT
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PrintJordan Schafer excelling in the leadoff spot has raised an interesting question. If he is still playing this well when Jason Heyward comes off the DL, where do we put Jason in the lineup?
I was one of the most vocal supporters of moving Heyward up in the lineup from 6th to 2nd, but now there's a wrench in the plans. Schafer (so far) has been a perfect leadoff hitter. Martin Prado has always been the perfect #2 hitter. Chipper Jones would likely still be hitting 3rd if he went blind and lost a leg.
So I assume that leaves the 4 through 8 spots to find a somewhere to squeeze Heyward into. The fact of the matter is, when Heyward is healthy he is arguable the best hitter on the team, so to bat him 6th or lower is absurd IMO. Uggla and Mac used to have the 4-5 spots locked down, but now that Uggla can't hit the broad side of a barn that gives more options.
I would ignore the recent rule of alternating lefties and righties in the middle of the order and have the lineup be:
1. Schafer
2. Prado
3. Chipper
4. Heyward
5. McCann
6. Uggla
7. Freeman
8. Gonzalez
Now lets hear your ideas.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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5th or 6th to get back into the swing of things but eventually cleanup
Atleast people want to be on our bandwagon
what has he done
that makes him look like a cleanup hitter? For the time being, and possibly for longer, McCann is our cleanup hitter in my eyes. I would bat him 5th, with the lineup being:
1)Schafer
2)Prado
3)Chipper
4)McCann
5)Heyward
6)Freeman
7)Uggla
8)Gonzalez.
And if Uggla remembers how to hit, bring him back up to 5 MAYBE 4, but until then, keep him at 7 or 6, depending if you believe in protection or not. Long run, Heyward is a 3rd place hitter IMO, but that position is taken by Chipper until he decides he is done.
"Welcome to the show, Brandon Beachy. I think you’re going to stay a while." - Dave Cameron
LOOGYs start salivating
when they see that 4-5-6 (and 7, if anyone actually pays attention to Duggles’s splits).
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
McCann has shown he can hit lefties just fine, and Freeman is hitting lefties better than righties. I’ll never understand why there is more credence to alternating batters than actually paying attention to splits.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on May 31, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering that I actually mention paying attention to splits
I think it’s probably safe to assume I didn’t know about Freddie’s… but thanks.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Before we continue the discussion of lineups... I really have to make a point...
I will swallow my pride here a bit too but answer this question, who has arguably been our best hitter in may? Alex freakin’ Gonzalez… Having him bat 8th may be perfect to keep the pressure off him but at what point do we start letting him creep up the lineup?
It’s been easy for us to bury him in the order because “he’s here for defense” but he’s been bringing his big boy stick with him lately… Maybe it’s time for something a bit more radical for a lineup change…
Schafer
Prado
Chipper
McCann
Gonzalez
Heyward
Freeman
Uggla
Yes, throw your stones and call me crazy but… Getting Heyward back in the swing of things and letting Uggla work his crap out in front of the pitcher (where he will see more walks) wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
Heyward in the 6 spot (FOR NOW) is the right plan. Once his bat gets going, plug him in at the 4 spot (yes… I said clean up) and then let McCann and everyone else bump down a spot… If/when Uggla returns to his normal self, I’d happily bump Gonzalez and Freeman down…
This is a great problem to have in my opinion… A true leadoff hitter, FINALLY. Prado is the prototypical 2 hitter and Chipper, as my good friend ATLandUNC said, would be 3rd until his leg falls off and probably even still…. Figuring out the rest of the lineup from what we have… it’s a great thing.
Just wanted to give some recognition where it’s due. I have underestimated Mr. Alex Gonzalez and for that, I apologize. :-)
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
Actually, you are overestimating Alex Gonzalez now.
Gonzo is wysiwyg: a great fielding, poor hitting SS with a little power. His May numbers, which you describe as arguably the best on the team are: .317/.337/.406, .742 OPS. That is decidedly mediocre. A good month for him, but not particularly great at all. Here are the May numbers for some other Braves:
Prado: .310/.352/.487 .839 OPS
McCann: .307/.370/.557 .927 OPS
Freeman: .292/.356/.404 .761 OPS
Hinske: .311/.333/.514 .847 OPS
So no, Alex Gonzalez wasn’t even in our top four best hitters in May. He should stay at the bottom of the lineup where he is. Given his defense, any offense he gives us is gravy.
highest BA!
therefore, best
"I heard that Tits was "well rounded" and his brother Cans was a "stand out." :D"
by Old Braves' Fan on Aug 18, 2010 3:05 PM PDT
by BravesRaleigh on May 31, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Usually, we see eye to eye.. I think...
So, in this particular situation, where I said he should be our 5 hitter… wait… before i continue, what is your projected lineup? Did I miss it somewhere?
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on May 31, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven't posted one.
I find them pointless, they changed so much, there really isn’t any such thing as a “regular lineup”. Hell, I’d hit Uggla eighth for a couple of days to get him to produce if I thought it would help. Actually, I would give him a couple of days off in a row with an offday and see if that worked.
Still, unless you are doing something like that—-moving a guy down to try to get him going, I think Gonzalez should hit eighth. Even when he has a hot streak, like this month, he really isn’t a very good hitter. Don’t get me wrong, I am a Gonzo defender—-I love the glove and I think we have enough hitting at other positions (assuming health and the return of the real Dan Uggla)—-but he’s just not much of a hitter.
wOBAs in May:
McCann: .386
Hinske: 368
Prado: .356
Freeman: 344
Gonzalez: .329
Not arguable at all.
Also, what about Schafer makes him a "true" leadoff hitter?
That is such a cliche term. Just because he’s fast? He’s been a pleasant surprise so far, but his OBP at AAA was a concern, and we should be seeing some regression.
just sss
but he has been looking at a lot of pitches, even when he doesn’t walk he gets in deep counts, and it was obvious that every time he got on the pitchers were distracted
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Just because he’s fast?
Duh..that is the only thing that matters for a leadoff hitter… and McLouth sucks
I hope my sarcasm detector is failing here....
…that being said, as long as Schafer keeps the OBP over .350 and has a 5/2 BB/K ratio, he can leadoff for my team all day. It probably won’t last, and then McLouth will be back and Schafer will be in Gwinnett, but if it does, I’d roll with it. I have been very pleasantly surprised with Schafer so far—-I really was a doubter and expected very little.
Let’s assume that Heyward when healthy will hit at least as well as his overall stats from last year and not like he did for most of this season when he was hurt. Assuming that to be true, I still like him best batting 2nd. I’m not buying into Shafer based on one week. So my lineup would be
Prado
Heyward
Jones
McCann
Freeman
Gonzalez
Uggla
Shafer
I don’t care about alternating lefty-righty. I’d rather have my best hitters one after the other at the top of the lineup and score enough runs in the early innings of the game that it won’t matter when the opposing manager goes to his pen.
I like Shafer 8th instead of Uggla because Jordan gets on base better (right now) which means fewer innings that start with the pitcher batting and more baserunners for Prado and Heyward to drive in.
I’m tempted to drop Chipper down lower but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and keep him 3rd for a while longer based on his HOF career at that spot in the order.
This isn’t really related to Heyward, but one thing to consider is that the Braves are stuck between a rock in a hard place in that:
Uggla needs to bat 8th until he comes out of his funk because he’s a free out despite the guys in front of him having high OBPs right now.
Putting Uggla and Sea Bass back-to-back, especially at 7 and 8 causes a massive black hole with them and the pitcher’s spot that can easily lead to no runs scoring in a bases-loaded no outs situation.
For that reason, I feel like they should be broken up somehow, but it’s difficult to do that without putting Freeman in there, meaning that Sea Bass has to bat 6th. Which, given his OBP, is also kind of sad.
So… Logan- Odarp – Gramps – Heap – Heyward – Sea Bass – Gordon – Struggla.
I still don't think Schafer should hit leadoff
His career Minor League OBP is only .325
That Heyward guy is pretty good.
by another simpsons avatar on May 31, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions
If you're going off of OBP
Bat Chipper first.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
It won't that popular, but
I’d like to see Heyward hit behind Uggla for awhile to see if that could jumpstart his hitting. It certainly couldn’t hurt.
The drawback to doing that, however, would be Heyward hitting very low in the lineup (like 6th or 7th). Which may not be a terrible thing if Fredi intends to start Heyward off at or near the bottom of the lineup in the first place. If he does go that route, he should make sure Heyward is behind Uggla.
War Eagle
One of our two best power hitters batting behind a guy who gets on base at a .200 clip?* Heyward is going to keep coming up with the bases empty that way.
*-Provided Heyward returns before Uggla stops struggla-ing.
by Ivan the Great on May 31, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
When Heyward comes back, the lineup should be
Gonzalez
Uggla
Chipper
Prado
McCann
Freeman
Heyward
P
Schafaer
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I like it but
When Jurrjens hits then he hit 6th
"Melky is a runs producer" -Dayton Moore (Royals GM)
Follow me @Alex7Deal
by BravosFanatic on May 31, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer this…
Schafer
Prado
McCann
Chipper
Heyward
Uggla
Freeman
Gonzalez
Won’t happen, of course, but why not??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
If you’re gonna move Chipper, why move him to cleanup?
IMO he’s a 2 or a 5 hitter now.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
To keep L-R, mostly. Uggla’s not hitting well enough for the four spot, I don’t like Prado there, and that’s way too high for Gonzalez. With Chipper at four, you have a RHP-killing McCann/Jones/Heyward string backing up a very mobile Schafer and our best multi-hit threat. And it maintains the lefty-righty mix when a LHP is on the mound.
Despite the loss yesterday, I really liked the top three’s performance in that order.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I like
Schafer
Chipper
Prado
McCann
Heyward
Uggla
Freeman
Gonzo
"Melky is a runs producer" -Dayton Moore (Royals GM)
Follow me @Alex7Deal
by BravosFanatic on May 31, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a popular choice, I'm sure, however, for the short term.....
Schafer
Prado
Chipper
Heap
Heyward
Gonzo
Freeman
/ducks Uggla
CEO and Founder of the Hire Bill Cowher for 2012 Bandwagon.
Pack your bags, TS and JI.
simple really
Keep it as it is now with Hayward in 6 then Mather 7 and Gonzo 8. Uggla on the bench, Prado plays 2nd base, Mather LF and send Conrad down. Use Uggla as a real expensive PH and occasional starts until he gets his screws tightened. I know it sounds funny but, if Uggla doesn’t start performing F. Wren and F.Gonzalez will have to contemplate just such a scenario. He can not keep starting.
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
Besides, Pinch Hitting might actually help him
Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher
Heyward, most likely. Obliques can take awhile.
Mclouth’s comeback may not be an issue, as he may not have a lineup spot open for him.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
I think McLouth will need at least three months at AAA to gain back his bat speed and
fully recover from any lingering effects… no real need to rush him. :-)
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on May 31, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
it might have been a bit of sarcasm.... :-)
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on May 31, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
we might need him....
never know when the bat boy needs a day off.
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on May 31, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
That’s what I was thinking. So, do we keep Schafer in the leadoff and put Heyward lower in the lineup? Or do we drop Schafer and put Heyward in the two hole? Tough decision……I’m going with this
Prado
Heyward
Chipper
Mac
Uggla
Freeman
Gonzo
Schafer
If Schafer keeps hitting like he has been, then I wouldn’t mind keeping in the leadoff spot. If that’s the case, Heyward should hit before Uggla
Schafer's sort of an enigma
He has gone from putting up ugly numbers in AAA to flipping a switch and being the perfect leadoff hitter once called up.
Some people point to this as a sign that this is all a lucky fluke, but I can’t dismiss him so quickly. He’s taking walks, not striking out, and sporting a level swing. He just looks legit.
If he keeps it up, I think his patience and his speed have to stay at leadoff. If he regresses to a .260/.330 player, I think his speed and defense deserve to stay in the staring lineup, but most likely 7th or 8th.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
Schafer meet the 2013 Braves hitting coach...
Mr. Larry Wayne Jones…
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on May 31, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Schafer every bit the better option than McClouth at this point.
The worst case scenario for his season I’ve seen anyone give is still better than McOut’s prospects.
War Eagle
yea
Some people point to this as a sign that this is all a lucky fluke
hmm..SSS.cough cough
I know you guys love him and you guys have the right to do that, but can we judge after a couple of weeks? Seriously, I’m tired of this……oh nevermind. Let’s wait a little while before we call his performance legit
You made it very obvious in the “finding a new centerfielder” thread that you are a serious Mclouth homer. There is no other explanation for getting annoyed with fans latching on to a player adding production to a position that has been lacking it all year. Long term or not, he is doing things in CF that we haven’t seen in 2 years.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
no
I’m not a McLouth homer at all. Sorry if I don’t buy into Schafer just yet (I’m not the only one that feels this way and they are very good reasons to feel this way). That makes me a McLouth homer? We all know you are a Schafer homer and anything that involves the CF talk, you are going to only talk good about Schafer and bad about McLouth. And last year was the only year where we had terrible CF production. There really is no point talking to you about Schafer and McLouth because you only care about one side of this story
Dude, come on. You have attacked ANYTHING said negative about Mclouth for 2 months. Don’t hide it.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
no
Like I just said, discussing anything related to CF is a one way road with you. I’m done
I think he needs to have around a .320 OBP to be a useful part of the linup, and about .350 to be a good leadoff man.
Honestly, I don’t care if he never gets another XBH all year as long as he gets on, plays great in CF, and learns how to steal bases. Can we hire Otis Nixon as a baserunning coach?
slash home run robbing defensive techniques...
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 1, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
well played. :-)
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 2, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I just wish I knew who Schaefer was.... :-P
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 2, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
If Uggla struggles through the end of June and McClouth is healthy, I think you put Nate in LF and move prado to 2B. When Chipper needs a day off you plug the struggla back in there at 2B and move Prado to 3B
Whoa.
Like the swagger with that one. Dan’s addition to the team did force Prado out of his 2B position, and all Prado has done before and during that time is be one of the best in the league.
War Eagle
Heyward should hit to left field more, away from the shift.
Back when Heyward was batting 6th at the start of the season, most everyone was criticizing Fredi. Now I see a lot of posters taking credit for that idea.
If he comes back and bats 6th, he will eventually starting hitting north of a .900 OPS like he always does when healthy and I will once again complain about him hitting too low.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
insatiable.
Seriously though… who would you bump back? I’m guessing you’d put him 4 and slide everyone down?
Oh lord… another lineup rosterbation thought…. /shootsself
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Jun 2, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that is what I said in this very fanpost, so that is a good guess, haha.
He’s got more natural power than anyone on this team, including Uggla. I think 3rd or 4th is where he belongs for eternity.
I am the greatest, I said that even before I knew I was. - Muhammad Ali
How do I feel? Like f**king sucess - Jordan Schafer
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