Braves Bullpen Falters As Washington Beats Atlanta 7-3 In 11 Innings
by SCrebel10 on May 11, 2011 11:25 PM EDT
in Braves Game Recaps
Email
PrintA day after the Braves late comeback bid fell short, the Nationals used a late comeback of their own to tie the game in the ninth inning against Craig Kimbrel, and then blew it open against Scott Linebrink in the 11th to beat Atlanta 7-3.
Things started off well enough for the Braves, as Martin Prado led off the game with a single that bounced off the arm of Nationals starter John Lannan. Lannan would strike out Alex Gonzalez but then walked Chipper Jones on four straight pitches to put runners on first and second. Brian McCann then extended his hitting streak to 11 straight games with a double off the right field wall that scored Prado and Chipper, giving Atlanta an early 2-0 lead.
The Nationals however would strike right back as Wilson Ramos lead off the top of the second with a double into left center-field. Laynce Nix would then follow with a single to right field that would plate Ramos and cut the Braves lead to 2-1.
The rest after the jump.
There wouldn't be anymore scoring until the seventh inning, but the Nationals constantly put pressure on the Braves, as Washington had a runner in scoring position in every inning but the eighth. Tommy Hanson didn't have his best stuff tonight, as he struggled all night with his fastball command. Hanson had over 60 pitches through three innings, and went deep into counts with batter after batter due to that lack of fastball command.
The final line on Hanson was 5.2 IP, 5 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 3 K. He threw 94 pitches, 56 of them going for strikes.
Eric Hinske would break the offensive lull in the seventh inning, when he crushed a homer to right field off Nationals left hander Doug Slaten, extending the Braves lead to 3-1.
Cory Gearrin, Eric O' Flaherty, and Jonny Venters would combine to pitch 2.1 innings of scoreless relief to get the ball to Craig Kimbrel in the ninth inning with that same 3-1 lead.
Kimbrel however, wasn't up to the task tonight. Sudden Braves killer Laynce Nix would lead off the inning with a single to left field, but would come back to strike out Danny Espinosa. Jerry Hairston Jr. would then single, putting runners on first and second. Pinch hitter Matt Stairs then was promptly walked on four straight pitches by Kimbrel to load the bases.
Another pinch hitter, Alex Cora, then came up to the plate. After Kimbrel fell behind him 2-1, Cora took a fastball from Kimbrel back up the middle, scoring Nix and Hairston to tie the game up at three. This was Kimbrel's third blown save of the year, and it sent the game into extra innings.
Things would stay tied at three until the 11th inning, when the Nationals pounced on Scott Linebrink, who had gotten the last out in the 10th and was on for another inning.
After getting Hairston out to start the frame, Linebrink would hit Pudge Rodriguez on a two-strike pitch, putting him on first. Alex Cora would then single and advance Rodriguez to third as he was running on the pitch. Ian Desmond then followed with a double that got into the left field corner, scoring Rodriguez and Cora, giving the Nationals a 5-3 lead. As if that weren't enough, Jayson Werth came up and crushed a two-run homer to left field, extending the lead to 7-3 in favor of Washington.
Right-hander Tyler Clippard would come on and get the save, allowing a lead-off double to Chipper Jones but nothing more.
Drew Storen would pick up the win after pitching a scoreless 10th inning for Washington.
WP
Drew Storen (3-1), 1 IP, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K
LP
Scott Linebrink (0-1), 1.1 IP, 4 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 0 BB, 1 K, 1 HBP.
Save
Tyler Clippard, 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 1 K
Up next:
Atlanta tries to avoid getting swept as they send Derek Lowe to the mound against Jordan Zimmerman.
213 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Get freakin Linenbrink off the team, my god
by PhuckthePhillies on May 11, 2011 11:32 PM EDT reply actions
Linebrink
I think Lynchburg could use him to throw BP.
Unbelievably bad pitching from both him and Kimbrel. Extremely disappointing loss to this perennial thorn-in-the-side team.
"You owe it to yourself to be successful. After that you'll owe it to the IRS."
Linebrink isn’t worth $2 million the way he’s pitched.
I'm a former CTU agent, so don't f--k with me!
He isnt worth him paying us 2 million
the way he has pitched
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
3 changes
1. Release Linebrink, Bring up Teheran. Lots of teams have brought up top pitching prospects to work out of the bullpen.
2. Send Conrad to AAA and bring up Hicks. He can play solid defense at SS and 3B and probably 2B to. I know he’s not the greatest hitter in the world but neither is Conrad.
3. Move Venters into the closer role. He’s far more dependable right now. Kimbrel is having some problems and as a contending team we can’t afford to weather his problems.
Im with you on switch venters and kimbrel
thatd be good because then Kimbrel could get more work and we could save Venters arm to an extent
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
1. I agree with trading/releasing Linebrink but not bringing up Teheran!
2. I say send Mather and Conrad down and bring up Hicks and Gomez.
3. Kimbrel will be fine I wouldn’t change just yet.
Why not, he’s proven himself at AAA now he needs to polish himself against major league players. Many teams have done and it has turned out well for them.
I don't know if you watched his start,
but Teheran still has things he needs to work on before he’s ready for the bigs.
"If you go out to a bar, pick up a chick, take her home, but can't close the deal, we used to call that "Calling Dan Kolb in for relief."-Talking Head
Clearly
Needs to gain confidence in his curveball, and work on locating his change-up a bit better. Plus he really needs to be building up his arm endurance if we’re actually counting on having him stay with the team for a full season as a starter sometime soon.
As a general rule, relievers use their secondary pitches LESS, therefore, they work on them LESS, and he needs more work on those secondary pitches.
Fastball command
also needs to be worked on some.
"If you go out to a bar, pick up a chick, take her home, but can't close the deal, we used to call that "Calling Dan Kolb in for relief."-Talking Head
Disagree with his fastball command
I think he controls it extremely well. He didn’t in his debut, but Bronn pretty much nailed what he needs to work on.
by Undocorkscrew on May 12, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Well Linebrink needs to go and we have limited arms for the bullpen. Maybe Ascencio needs to come back up.
Gotta agree with Jack
Johan worked out of the pen in 02 or 01 before he became the man up in Minny. Bring up Julio to take Moylan’s role.
"So he basically called me a Jew. I was confused because I'm black and Methodist."
Yeah...
And it only cost the Twins 2 1/2 years of service time before he became a regular starter…great move, that one. Who didn’t want to waste two and a half cost-controlled years from a future Cy Young winner in order to get some sweet help from the bullpen??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Don’t forget Wagner blew saves last year as well…we have to accept a BS every now and then.
What we don’t need is a $2M ($5M if you count what the ChiSox are paying him) “veteran” pitcher pissing on our fires with gasoline…
by TBuzz on May 12, 2011 12:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can accept blown saves but Wagner had 7 all last season and Kimbrel already has 3. I also have no confidence when Kimbrel enters a game.
That seems a bit extreme. His WHIP has been good and K/9 is ridiculous. He’s got closer stuff…a night like this will happen every so often.
by TBuzz on May 12, 2011 12:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If memory serves
Wags had a bad streak near the start of the year, and was then lights out for the rest of the season with a little hiccup here and there.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
True.
Wags blew seven saves last year. He started out rough but calmed down as the year went on. Give Kimbrel a break. He is just a rookie. He will have growing pains but I still will take him any day of the week to close out a game.
Admired as a saint. Defined by my rank. Combined with my strength. My time and my length.
2 of his blown saves are 1-run games. Those things happen. This one last night was tough to watch, but it happens to all closers at some point. I completely disagree with switching Kimbrel and Venters. Kimbrel will get better and more confident over time, and he really still is one of the top closers in the game. I don’t think I would go out and make a trade him for any other closer in baseball on a 1 year switcheroo, so why remove him from the closer spot? The kid is filthy.
yes
Wagner blew saves last year, 7 in 71 games. Kimbrel has blown 3 in17 games. Wagner had a .0985915 blown save rate or 9.8% of saves blown. Kimbrel has a .1764705 rate or 17.65%. I think he will settle down, or at least hope he will, but it is clear he is still working on his control. I think he could have really benefited from having a little more time in AAA or having a solid veteran like Wagner around for another year. That doesn’t really matter now, whats done is done. What bothers me is, if you have the potential to win 95 games, and your closer blows 17.65% of them, that is a hair over 16 games. Like I said, lets hope he settles down and gains a little control.
Sample size
makes that comparison kind of misleading.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
yes, 25% less chances than Wagner for the season so far, which is why I think he will get better. I do get tired of the small sample size argument though. It seems like a knee jerk reaction to any stat.
If it weren't totally appropriate in this case
I could see how you’d be tired of it. But it’s a valid argument here – there’s not much sense in comparing one season of Wags to 6 weeks of Kimbrel.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I do agree that it may be appropriate and I am not saying he shouldn’t be the closer or we should trade or what ever. It just seems lately that sss is being thrown around every where I look, but maybe every where I look is a sss compared to everywhere available to look, so I invalidated myself………. damn.
Do you disagree that what you offered was a poor comparison
because of the discrepancy in the sample sizes?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I stated facts, if you read that as a comparison, well sorry then. If you re-read my first post, you will see that I said I believe Kimbrel will improve as the season goes. I also stated what could happen if he didn’t. Nowhere did I use the word “compare” or “compared”. I gave Wagner’s full season stats last year, and Kimbrel’s so far. If you really want to argue small sample size’s, they are good enough for Pharmaceutical companies. Maybe we can find out what Wagner’s record was at this time last year to compare if you want. Still wouldn’t be a fair comparison, given the experience Wagner has in his career over Kimbrel’s. If you are still not happy with my answer, we will just have to agree to disagree and move on. After all, its only a game.
At least
what is being compared here is the size of samples…and not other things
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
As an Engineer by trade, the SSS argument is extremely valid. We’re still assessing Kimbrel’s statistical confidence on a lot of metrics. Conversely to your point, it keeps the knee-jerk reactions at bay. You know, how we should have released Linebrink AND Sherrill in April and brought up Marek (pre TJ) who was lights out…as if how someone pitches over 9 innings is an indication of how they will always pitch.
by TBuzz on May 12, 2011 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Appearances and save opportunities
Kimbrel has blown 3 saves in 11 opportunities. He’s blown over 25% of his chances this year. Wagner blew 7 out of 44 opportunities. A save rate of 84%.
If I had a nickel for everytime someone told me I should shutup, I'd probably have 5 or 6 bucks.
According to BR
Venters has blown a whopping 50% of his save chances this year. We DEFINITELY don’t want him closing.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
AH! SNAKE!
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
how about
HSSS
(horrendously small sample size)
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as you apply it to both Kimbrel and Venters, I have no problem with HSSS.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
deal
For the record I am fine with either one of them closing, though I lean more towards Kimbrel closing for a myriad of reasons
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
HSSS doesn't make it sound any less like a snake.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
actually it is more like a snake
(which was the point)
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
no worries
Proctor is being called up on the 15th.
by jailbarjacks on May 12, 2011 2:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Inexcusable
We need some more youth on this team. Cue up Fred Gwynne and Joe Pesci for the message board.
"If he is convicted on all counts he faces 80 years. Given his business acumen, however, I’m sure he could talk it down to 95." - Craig Calcaterra on Lenny Dykstra's indictment
I'm worried now. Tuesday's game was the type of game that can send a team into a
tailspin, and now tonight with the heartbreaker. I really hope they can get this thing turned around with a win tomorrow.
We had a heartbreaker in LA
right before we went on our, what, 6-game winning streak?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
How do games like Tuesday send teams into a tailspin?
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Havent you heard?
If you make things up, it sounds good and people believe it!
I know when I played baseball, anytime we came back from 6 down to lose by 1 run, my will to come back the next day was shot completely.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I figured Linebrink would be getting killed, here
But you guys can’t let Kimbrel off the hook, either. If he doesn’t blow a two run lead, Linebrink is never in the game to begin with.
I think the difference is Linebrink hasn't been that great all year, while Kimbrel is still young
and super talented. You are right though.
I can't be THAT upset with Linebrink
He was basically the last available reliever in a game that should have been over much earlier. We stuck with him too long because, well, there was nobody else. Martinez just pitched three innings yesterday. He should absolutely have been gone when Werth came to the plate, but we had no one else.
You can’t expect EVERYONE in the bullpen to be a lights-out stud. Of course, Linebrink really has given up some big hits.
Blame Frank Wren.
Seriously. Why he felt the need to throw $2 million and a major league roster spot at a trashman like Linebrink is beyond me. Presumably, it isn’t Linebrink’s fault that he sucks; it is definitely Frank Wren’s fault for not seeing that before he traded for him and for refusing to acknowledge his mistake by cutting ties now.
old, beaten down argument – have any new stuff?
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
This...
Kimbrel has blown 4 of our last 7 losses (L.A., St. Louis, St. Louis, and last night). It’s time we let Venters close. Move Kimbrel to the 9th inning. I’m tired of giving away wins.
Sure, closers blow games every now and then, but goodness…
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
True, but Kimbrel is still young and may still need some time to adjust to bad outings at the major-league level. Linebrink’s best years are behind him; he just hasn’t worked out.
I'm a former CTU agent, so don't f--k with me!
by TonyAlmeyda on May 12, 2011 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Right?
But how many games to the Braves give away while Kimbrel works things out?
4 of our last 7 losses are due to Kimbrel failing. That’s awful. Let him pitch earlier…
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
Most of the rest of our losses are due to the offense failing
Maybe we should promote more guys from AAA and see if they can do better?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Dude...
Stop being a jack-ass.
I am not advocating dumping Kimbrel for a AAA player. What’s wrong with Venters closing and Kimbrel pitching the 9th?
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
Excuse me...
Kimbrel in the 8th…
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
You're advocating replacing Kimbrel in a situation in which he's failed a few times
My point is that we won’t do that for the same reason that we won’t replace our offense in a situation in which they’ve failed several times – we don’t really have better options. Venters is better when he can be used as a fireman; Kimbrel is better when he can have a clean inning. Just because Kimbrel’s had some recent issues doesn’t make that any less true.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Fair enough...
But he should have a shorter leash than Billy Wagner.
Comparing an entire offense to one relief pitcher doesn’t make sense. Even if you’re referring to one particular offensive player, there are 7 other batters to pick up the slack. Thus, it’s hard to pin a loss on one offensive player.
In this instance, while the Braves offense certainly could have scored more runs, if Kimbrel had simply done his job, we would have won. His struggles are magnified, for they are leading directly to losses (okay, our offense failed in the 9th and 10th…so he’s not 100% to blame). Before Kimbrel blew the game, what other player last night was directly responsible for giving up 2 runs or more (Linebrink doesn’t count, for his failure came AFTER Kimbrel blew the game…and Linebrink has a bad case of being Scott Linebrink).
Also, I am not advocating removing Kimbrel entirely from the pen, I’m merely questioning using him solely in the 9th inning. That’s the equivalent of simply moving a struggling rookie batter down in the line-up. What’s wrong with that?
Last night, Venters came on for the beginning of the 8th. So if Kimbrel had been used in the 8th, he would’ve had a clean inning.
As WienerDog points out, Kimbrel will stay in the closer role. I think it’s fair to question the decision, and I shouldn’t have to have my opinions met with derision merely because you disagree.
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
I think you're looking for hostility where there isn't any
I tend to work in analogies, so I get that.
I was just trying to point out that just because someone’s struggling doesn’t mean we need to change their roles, especially if we don’t have a good way to do that (which I think we agree on – saving Venters for the 9th would be detrimental to our bullpen performance).
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
What we SHOULD do
Is actually user a closer platoon like Freddi said he would. Of those first 5 hitters he faced in the 9th, two were left handed, one was a left handed pinch hitter, one was a switch hitter (the only man he retired) and another was right handed. To face Desmond, Werth, and LaRoche in the 8th, he should have used Kimbrel, while there were more lefties a bit later in the line-up.
No point in debating it
The Braves weren’t kidding when they said Fredi was a perfect replacement for Bobby (or something to that effect).
Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez said he’ll stick with Kimbrel.
“It’s a cruel game, it really is,” Gonzalez said. “We just couldn’t get those last three outs. You just hope the learning curve is there and I think it is. We’ll keep running him out there.”
"You owe it to yourself to be successful. After that you'll owe it to the IRS."
Don’t fault him – he has a hard time answering valid points without hyperbolic jack-assery. I mean who wouldn’t question 5 very shaky outings out of the last 7 appearances.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Stay classy
I’m not saying I wouldn’t question it – but then Venters has had some really great appearances earlier in the game, too, in what are arguably higher-leverage situations. Would you really rather have Kimbrel come in for those appearances so that you can save Venters for the 9th?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
No...
We agree here.
If a pitcher needs to enter in the 8th (or sooner) when the bases are messy (opposite of clean, right?) then Venters should be the guy; Kimbrel doesn’t have enough control…yet.
But why not let Venters close out games like last night? Maybe relief pitchers can’t handle undefined roles?
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
Because we know how Fredi works
if Venters becomes “The Closer,” then that’s all he’ll ever be. I don’t know if relief pitchers actually can’t handle undefined roles, but the opinion I’ve gotten from interviews with Fredi et. al. indicates to me that they all think that.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I agree with you that Venters is the best for the 8th inning. Kimbrel is learning on the fly and we have to understand there is a significant amount of growing pain to put up with. Flipping them back and forth is no good for either one.
But I love to pound on you for answering questions by “send them to AAA”. It’s all in good fun.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, that's usually not hyperbolic jack-assery
that’s usually just me poking fun at the institutional memory that is mastermike. :)
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
HAHA
I didn’t live here when mastermike was around. I’ll keep that in mind, but I might still make fun of you :)
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
You mean you haven't seen the "bench Heyward or move him down in the lineup" post?
Good times. (I wasn’t here either, but it’s since been linked around)
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I’ve seen many references, but never the actual post.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Always happy to relive the memory
http://www.talkingchop.com/2010/8/18/1630515/is-it-time-to-bench-heyward-or
"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson
From Bowman
Even with Moylan it seemed #Braves to needed to fix their bullpen. They can add Proctor Sunday. That should help. Gearrin deserves to stay
Really? Proctor is the answer?
"If you go out to a bar, pick up a chick, take her home, but can't close the deal, we used to call that "Calling Dan Kolb in for relief."-Talking Head
We definitely don't need a visit...
from the Proctorogist…
by TBuzz on May 12, 2011 12:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm picturing Albie Lopez
Checking his voicemail every fifteen minutes or so.
"If he is convicted on all counts he faces 80 years. Given his business acumen, however, I’m sure he could talk it down to 95." - Craig Calcaterra on Lenny Dykstra's indictment
Do I hear a "Wickman!"?
Or even GULP a “Kolb”?
"If he is convicted on all counts he faces 80 years. Given his business acumen, however, I’m sure he could talk it down to 95." - Craig Calcaterra on Lenny Dykstra's indictment
The look on Lannan’s face when they played Imagine as he came to bat was pretty funny. He was like, “Really? Again?”
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on May 12, 2011 12:17 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
And how freaking old is the Nats bench??
Pudge Rodriguez
Alex Cora
Matt Stairs???
by TBuzz on May 12, 2011 12:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Pudge has been benched?
I did not know that. Ouch.
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on May 12, 2011 12:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ramos has been in there the last 2 games…he’s their future at C anyway.
by TBuzz on May 12, 2011 12:38 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Nats
have slowly transitioned him into the mentor role for Ramos.
by GreatestEver on May 12, 2011 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Just when we are starting to get excited about the season after beating the Phillies, we lose two in a row to the Nats. Our starting pitching (yesterday) and bullpen (today) which was touted as our strength failed us. I hope the last two games do not affect the team’s confidence.
Baseball is so fickle, which makes it great, yet so confusing. Every now and then your best hopes are met with a resounding THUD.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
what is that i can’t even
"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones
by MBL1 on May 12, 2011 1:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's kinda gross
but I’m personally more excited about never having to bear witness to something like this again.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Sucky kind of loss but they happen. I think Kimberly should stay in the closers role. Every player goes through a rough stretch especially when they’re a rookie.
by drumzalicious on May 12, 2011 2:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
People can pound on Linestink all they want, but I can almost promise that the replacement level available at AAA is only cheaper. It’s not going to be any more than slightly and marginally better.
What cost the Braves in this one is that the closer couldn’t run the gauntlet comprised of Laynce Nix, Jerry Hairston, Matt Stairs, and Alex Cora.
I think that's true *now*
I don’t think that was true before Marek needed TJ.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
agreed- I would have expected at least a Marek tryout if the Stink kept stinkin.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone just relax.
Its May and its a long damn season.
That being said, I love how everyone wants to pound the relievers, has anyone thought to question pitch calling? Heap has made some questionable decisions as far as pitch selection. Sliders to Nix, then having to throw a get me over fastball. Messing around too much with Kimbrel’s slider when batters are in a take mode. When he went 2-0 to Stairs, Heap should have gone out to calm him down, but ended up just sitting back then waiting until he walked him.
Sometimes I wonder if Heap makes notes on guys hitting strengths, or studies their tendencies. Just speaking as a catcher myself, I try to keep notes on teams and their tendencies only use it against them.
Pitch calling is a cooperative effort, though
I wasn’t watching the game last night, so I can’t say… but do you know how many of those bad pitch calls resulted from Heap being shaken off?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
It depends on the pitcher.
Some pitchers will have a pitch in mind and basically call their own game but there are also pitchers that trust what their catcher calls. The times that I’ve watch Kimbrel pitch I don’t think I’ve seen him shake off Heap once. I’m inclined to believe he trusts what Heap is calling.
I’ve caught plenty of guys that will flat out say, you call it, I’ll throw it.
When Kimbrel’s slider is on he is 1,2,3. Some nights he has the combo working, and some he doesn’t. Last night he was off his command of both, but many times it’s his slider that keeps his fastball effective. I don’t fault McCann for working the slider. Missing with the slider makes him a one pitch pitcher and easy to hit.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It was a combination of the hitters and counts which he used it. My gripes:
1. 2 straight sliders to Nix
2. First pitch fastball down the pipe to Hairston instead of a slider
3. First pitch slider to Stairs which threw off that at bat
4. The 1-1 slider to Cora which setup Kimbrel having to serve up a fastball
Tough call, one at bat he is first pitch FB, which gets hit, so he adjusts to the next batter and it doesn’t work. Hairston turned a 98 mph heater back up the middle. Sometimes you get beat with your best. One thing I have picked up on is that teams are not flinching at first pitch sliders and sitting pretty much dead red, especially when his command isn’t spot on with the slider.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I love BMac, but I do understand your concerns. Ross is so good defensively, throwing out runners and calling pitches that BMac weaknesses become a little exposed.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
This is why we do the following:
1) Move Prado to CF.
2) Move Mac to LF.
3) Start Ross everyday.
4) ???
5) PROFIT.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I would pay money to see Mac running around LF.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
start it tonight so the Braves can has McCann, McLouth, and Ske in the OF. That would rulz.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Would that qualify as one of the slowest outfields ever? Maybe if we replaced McLouth.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
But, but, but...
think of the OFFENSE!
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Well, no
wouldn’t that be if we also stuck Uggla in RF?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Aw, now that would be cute. They’d be running around, flailing their beefy arms in vain as McLouth stands in center and says to himself, “I never thought I’d be the most respected outfielder in this organization.”
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
Ah, but you're forgetting
we moved Prado to CF to make room for Brian. It’d be like the three stooges out there.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Ross
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Our outfield… cuteness is solely derived from a desire to use both Ross and McCann in the starting lineup everyday.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
The only was Conrad should catch is if the rest of the team is dead from laughing at the new OF.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
The funniest dugout moment I have seen in a while was Moylan imitating/ mocking Hinske’s dead sprint to chase the fly ball down last night.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh man, I'm sorry I missed that.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Lowe gave a raised fist to Ske, and Moylan was imitating his running motion to Medlen.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
the best though is the Hinske HR against the Marlins GIF
(where the pitcher’s (Nolsaco?) hat flies off
where is that now….hmmm
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
McLouth would be scared to death. Imagine if he were sandwiched in between McCann and Uggla on some sort of strange popup that was high enough to allow them all a chance to catch it.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
First, Heyward nearly kills him, now he’s got a third of the team’s aggregate weight running toward him from opposite directions. In the final second before collision, I can see him looking into the camera and holing up a tiny “EEP!” sign.
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
Let's not ignore the offense, either
They failed to capitalize on a 1st and 2nd with no outs scenario in the 4th, and ended the 5th and 6th innings with GIDPs. Bring in one extra run, then Kimbrel doesn’t blow the save, and Linebrink doesn’t play.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I liked Fredi blowing through our 3 best relievers in, what was it? 2.1 innings? I think EOF and Venters should’ve pitched longer. But then again, they might have been needed today? I don’t know. I’m just throwing things out there.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
What else do you do when trying to win a game and your starter struggling with a high pitch count. Nothing wrong there, you don’t save guys assuming a blown save.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
This is true. I just like EOF and Venters so much that I wish they did pitch more. Not enough to destroy their arms, but more than they do.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
I think the management of the bullpen is pretty standardized by now and it won’t stray much. The starting pitchers are almost as much of a lock as there is to get into the 6th. If the starter goes 6 full, the standard 7th is going to be EOF/ Gearrin, 8th Venters, 9th Kimbrel until the train is off the tracks. Every now and then Linestink and Sherrill will have to pitch so you don’t run up the appearance count too high. I like the standard combo, and when Kimbrel is on track it’s one of the best in the biz.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions
They're already pitching a good bit
EOF is to Fredi as Moylan was to Bobby, and Venters has already had a moment where he has some arm pain earlier this year. With Kimbrel shaken up, and thrown almost 30 pitches, there’s a chance we don’t see him today if another save situation arises, but putting in Jonny alternatively means three straight days of work, which also isn’t ideal.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Anyone care to put forth a guess
As to how many games out of first we will be on Sunday evening? 6…7…9?
DARFC
"You owe it to yourself to be successful. After that you'll owe it to the IRS."
Didn't get to see...
the game last night and it sounds like it’s a good thing I missed it. Sounds like Kimbrel and Linebrink got lit up like pinball machines. No worries, win today and compete hard against Philly, and I am happy. LOOOONGGGG season.
Castrologist
True...
But games do not count more down the stretch. A bad loss now counts just as much as a bad loss in September.
While I agree it’s a long season and the Braves are not done, these games hurt. If we miss the playoffs by a game or two, these games will hurt even more.
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
Last year...
Wagner blew a few, and it took us down to the last strike in game 162 to make the playoffs. Hope we don’t cut it that close this year, but u are right, they all count the same and when a win is within our grasp like last night, we need to win ’em more often than not. Genius, I know.
Castrologist
by castrologist on May 12, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Kimbrel
Last night essentially reinforced what I have been thinking for awhile: Kimbrel is not ready to close. To me, it seems like the pressure is getting to him. Maybe switching him with Venters will help alleviate some of the pressure; I don’t know. What I do know is that after the bottom of the eighth last night, I envisioned Kimbrel blowing the save. He seems very shaky lately.
Kimbrel’s going to be a great pitcher; in fact, he already is. But I think with his recent performance, you have to question if he is ready to close.
The cliche'd game of adjustments
By now, the book on Kimbrel is complete. Huge fastball, biting slider. The slider isn’t being thrown enough for strikes, so hitters know to lay off of it and sit fastball. When someone throws 97, just get the barrel of the bat on the ball, and the velocity will help take care of the rest. The thing I notice is that he’s completely given up on the straight change he threw in the minors and 2010. Not even using it as a show-me pitch.
Until Craig adjusts accordingly and adequately enough, occurrences like this are bound to happen from time to time. He’s been groomed as a closer, and has been closing at all levels of the minors and ushered into the big leagues last year. I wouldn’t say he’s not ready, though.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
by royhobbs on May 12, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe he dropped the change to focus on controlling the FB/slider?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Good call on the changeup, I had not thought of that. Teams have picked up on him to sit dead red. Even if the slider is on, he’s not convincing enough hitters to be afraid of it.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The only problem I have with this is that once you start the game of switching closers, no one has confidence to know who to call on. The manager is always second guessing AND second guessed, even by himself. The pitchers don’t know what to expect and it throws preparation and confidence off. If the change is made, it almost has to be season long to have any real effect, unless it’s just a day off for the closer or playing a heavy sided matchup, like 2 out of three hitters being LH. Just IMHO.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
very true
Not to reverse what I proposed, but I do agree with you…taking Kimbrel out of the closing job too early may cause a significant and lasting blow to his confidence.
Again, why I would not be a good manager.
“Craig, this is a hard conversation for me to have, and I’m sure it’s even more difficult for you to hear…uh…things aren’t, uh, going well. I mean, it’s just not really, you know, working out with you as the, as the, uh, closer. We’re gonna give some of that responsibility to Venters. Oh, no. Don’t look at me like that. No, this is for your own good. Craig, c’mon. Don’t…aw, geez. Don’t cry. I’m sorry, it’s just…okay, I’ll leave you as closer. I said I was sorry! Craig. Craig. K-man, c’mon. Craig. I’ll buy you a car. Would that make you feel better? Okay, good. There’s that smile. What’s that? Candy apple red? Sure thing, buddy.”
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
Dang
that’s one heck of an upgrade from ice cream.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
He was crying! What was I supposed to do? I can’t take it when someone cries in front of me.
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
Actually, I’m immune to children crying. I find it annoying.
LIVE EDT
Tape-delayed for the West Coast
WHY
are we so bad when we play Washington?? It kills me. We can’t always drop these games, these series to team like this.
Come on Braves!
- FOW
This is the problem...
Aren’t we the only team with a losing record to Washington?
Sad, but if we win today, the season series is tied!
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
...which is still kind of sad
but also a little comforting, seeing as the Nats tend to pound on us every year.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
At least they're not the Expos...
Oh…wait…crap.
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
Joe S commented last night on the telecast that the Nats are 1 game under .500 (now .500) and have played only two series against teams with losing records.
by CharlotteChop on May 12, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
You would notice that, wouldn’t you?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I would think he would, but that would be presumptive of me… or would it?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
How much would a would chuck chuck, if a would chuck could chuck would?
;-)
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
Nice to see Kinbrel hitting 99 on the gun consistently last night
Has he cranked it up that high this season before last night?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
Dear Linebrink, get off the team. Sure Kimbrel messed up, but he might turn into a baseball player one day.
DON'T GO TO SLEEP EARLY OR JEFF FRANCOEUR WILL HAUNT YOUR DREAMS AND LOWER YOUR OBP. - Scott
by BullManUGA on May 12, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1000
Don't pull Kimbrel, Bobby. Don't do it. Dang it Bobby!!
by georgiadawgsfan on May 12, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
linebrink
Should have that stem cell surgery that Colon had.
by drumzalicious on May 12, 2011 11:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Dear Braves:
Please, I beg – do not let the gNats sweep you at home.
"Curve: The loveliest distance between two points." ~ Mae West
Heath Bell
please go get him! I will pay Linebrink’s remaining salary. And in pennies just to inflict the pain into him that he has inflicted on the Braves.
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't pull Kimbrel, Bobby. Don't do it. Dang it Bobby!!
by georgiadawgsfan on May 12, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't pull Kimbrel, Bobby. Don't do it. Dang it Bobby!!
by georgiadawgsfan on May 12, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Cole Hamels would like to chime in on yesterdays Braves / Nats game......
‘What hurt today was the homers," Hamels astutely pointed out. "If they were doubles or base hits, I don’t think as many guys would’ve scored.’ "
A baseball diamond is, most simply, the intersecting of four 90-foot baselines, and, most powerfully, the intersecting of seemingly random lives.
If somebody told me Hamels was related to John Madden somehow, I would not be shocked in the least.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on May 12, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
no worries
Proctor is coming up on the 15th.
by jailbarjacks on May 12, 2011 2:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
/shudders …. /tries to prevent shuddering from turning into seizure
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Podsednick just goy released from the jays. i hope we sign him and get rid of mather. hes been atrocious
ESPN can give the Philthies all the verbal BJs they want, Braves will still clinch the east!
by suicide bunting is a sin on May 12, 2011 2:54 PM EDT reply actions
this
he adds speed and is not horrible with the bat
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
What?!?!?!? No Sherrill sucks comments...
You know that if he had only gone 1-2-3, that would changed the outcome of many events in the world, including Linebrink starting an inning. That last pitch of the inning before, you know, it bounced. That could have been showing he was tired already. There should have been no way to keep him in there longer.
Oh, well, it is what it is. Guess my brother can try to get better. Maybe he will get on your good side once the SSS ends. When is that by the way? 20 IP, 30 IP, 40 IP, next year, never?
Remember a few games ago
When Eric O’Flaherty struck out the side with inherited RISP against the Phillies? When your brother does that, it will cast a shield around him that will protect him from criticism for a few games, and then a few spotless outings will typically help reinforce it.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Interesting...
I cannot tell if you are joking or not about being Sherrill’s brother. (Sherrill was born in Memphis and you’re fan, according to your profile, of the Memphis Tigers…also you post a lot on the Orioles site…after that: I’ve got nothing.)
Regardless, Sherrill has looked good recently to me. Fortunately, for Sherrill, compared to Linebrink, he looks like Billy Wagner.
"Insert witty and/or funny quote here" ~ The Person Who Spoketh Said Quote.
Pretty sure he's not joking
I think this conversation happened before.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Actually Sherrill has not been too bad recently
I do not know whether that is because he realizes his ball speed and trajectory are not what they used to be and thus using his repetoire of pitches better, or whether he is hiding the ball better, or what …
We only got Sherrill as a LOOGY, and right now he is actually performing better than anticipated (then again our expectations were very low coming out of ST)
whatever the case he looks WAAAY better than Linebrink right now. Linebrink has regressed to the point that he looks like Scot Proctor’s twin.
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he just has bronchitis?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
you sir are on a hilarious streak
No, unfortunately for Mr. Proctor, I believe he has an un-curable case of Suckitis…
and I am afraid he may have given it to Linebrink.
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
LINEBRINK SUCKS BIG BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU SUCK LINEBRINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by georgiadawgsfan on May 12, 2011 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
Tell us how you really feel.
Don’t hold anything back.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
food for thought
does it matter what the size of the balls he is sucking on are?
by Santaklose11 on May 12, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
Related FanShots on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
