Braves Should Acquire Andruw Jones
by DreamWithinADream on Apr 9, 2011 11:10 AM EDT
Email
PrintI should probably put this in some sort of rosterbation thread, but I couldn't find it so I'm just going to post it here for now. Feel free to delete it.
Anyway, I look at the Braves roster and one thing that sticks out that I think could be a problem is the lack of right-handed bench bats available. Assuming Ross isn't normally used in a PH role, our top RH bats off the bench are Brooks Conrad (who isn't very good and worse right-handed) and Brandon Hicks (who still doesn't have a hit). That's awful. I wanted to get Andruw over the winter and now that the Joe Mather experiment has essentially flopped, I still think it would be a good idea to get Andruw.
He put up a solid .827 OPS (119 OPS+) last year with 19 HRs in a limited role. That's some pretty good pop. He contributed 1.5 WAR last year, also in a limited role. He was even better against lefties, with a .256/.373/.558 slash line last year, good for a .931 OPS. But he's not terrible against righties, with an OPS of .781 last year. He also seems to have grown some patience at the plate: his walk rate the last two years is higher than it was when he first played for the Braves. Obviously right now he isn't the defender he used to be, but he can still play adequate defense in the outfield at all three positions. He even played 1B for a little bit the last couple of years.
He's getting $2M this year, which isn't bad and he fills a position we sorely need. It probably won't take too much to get him. The Yankees have only played him in two games this year.
What do you think?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
66 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
$2M is probably more than what the Braves wanted to pay
There was a brief period after the 2009 season that it was believed that Andruw was coming back, due to him suddenly being seen in Atlanta a lot, the news swirling with speculation, and the local papers throwing his name out, and then Andruw himself going to GA Tech and Hawks games wearing a Braves hat, and showing up to Brian McCann’s charity softball game, etc, etc.
But then the trigger was never pulled for whatever reason, and he went to the White Sox instead. I mean, I’m kinda with you, as long as he’s not expected to be the old Andruw, current Andruw would be more or less something the team could definitely use. I’m not sure what the money situation is with him, because of the deferred payments he should be receiving from the Dodgers of 2-3M a year until 6-8 years for backing out on that albatross deal, I thought any other team was only responsible for league minimum for him, but supposedly the Yankees are covering $2M of it this year for whatever reason.
Either way, as long as he’s producing at the level he’s currently producing, and if there’s any indication that he can sustain it for another year, I’d be all about the Braves signing him to the minimum next year for his services again. Or hell, float the Yankees the controversial Japanese pitcher who’s name I won’t mention for Andruw straight up?
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Yeah I agree
If we can’t get him this year, assuming we still have this problem next year (looks like it), we should definitely try to get him. But thinking about this year, if money is an issue, unloading KK would definitely help. I don’t believe the Yankees would do it straight up, considering the salary difference, the fact that they play in the AL East, already have a surplus of has-been veterans, and have already dealt with one Japanese pitching flop in Kei Igawa. Maybe if we even the difference in salary it might happen? I just don’t see the Yankees taking a chance on KK. If we can trade him elsewhere we might be able to make a move on Andruw.
by DreamWithinADream on Apr 9, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, I'm not sure about how he's getting his money.
Is he getting the Dodgers’ money in addition to the Yankees this year?
by DreamWithinADream on Apr 9, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I said, I'm not sure
So apparently, it appears that he’ll be making $3.2M a year for I think three more years, to fulfill the remaining $18M the Dodgers owed him. The Rangers and White Sox both gave him league minimums in 2009 and 2010 to play for them. But then Andruw put up a serviceable year for CHW, which probably created some sort of demand for him.
This is where I’m confused – either the Yankees outbid against nobody are giving Andruw $2M and absolving the Dodgers of $2M from one year, or the Yankees outbid several suitors and are giving him $2M with some or all of it being on top of the $3.2M he’s pulling in from the Dodgers in order to prevent him from going elsewhere. This is all conjecture, and I don’t have the slightest clue.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Here's the skinny...
The money from the Dodgers is not a current salary, but a deferred salary…much like what Bobby Bonilla will receive from the Mets for the next century or thereabouts.
His contract ended after ‘09, so that’s where the bidding began…first with the Chi Sox and then with the Yankees. The Dodgers salary has nothing to do with those, that’s still payment that’s been deferred from ’09. The Rangers contract was subtracted from his Dodgers payments, as he was still under contract at that time but was released
-C.
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
For Kenshin straight up
by 5InningsofChuckJames on Apr 9, 2011 11:41 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Intriguing.
Really Win/Win for both teams, considering….
"It looks like The Hound of the Baskervilles out there." - Steve Stone
"...I'm reminded of Wuthering Heights." - Harry Caray
~
Swing and a drive...Belted right! Welcome to the Show!!!
by Chief Noc-A-Homa on Apr 9, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Read my reply above
I really don’t think the Yankees would at all be interested in KK, especially straight up.
by DreamWithinADream on Apr 9, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The Yankees need a RH bat too. They have him for a reason. It isn’t as if they have a surplus of lefty-mashing outfielders.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
This is true
For some reason I thought they still had Thames, but they don’t (really wouldn’t make sense to have both).
This would definitely make a trade more difficult, but the Yankees clearly need him less than we do.
by DreamWithinADream on Apr 9, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree.
The Yankees aren’t going to be eager to part with him. He is definitely the fourth OF, and they have to OF (Granderson and Gardner) who are not so good against lefties. Yes, Andruw hasn’t played much this year, but this is because the Yankees are an AL team with a good lineup that doesn’t pinch-hit much and the Yankees just haven’t happened to face many lefties so far this year. Andruw has started against both lefties the Yankees have faced so far. We would have to give them something they want to get Andruw.
True
The Yankees signed him for a reason, they need a right handed outfield bat. I’ve had both Gardner and Granderson on my fantasy teams and they are terrible against lefties. I would love to bring him back though if it could happen.
Jack Parkman up to the plate, he does that little shimmy that makes the women here in Cleveland puke.
by ChippersMyLifeCoach on Apr 9, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure I see it.
If we were going to get Andruw, it seems like we would have signed him this offseason. Although the front office may have already thought they had their man in Mather for a cheaper price (who still may end up working out). If the Yankees would consider dealing him for Kawakami straight up, with us eating some salary obviously, I don’t think its an impossibility. But I definitely think its too early in the season for them to make a move. I wouldn’t be against it though. I really wanted us to sign Andruw this offseason.
by thenightstallion on Apr 9, 2011 12:09 PM EDT reply actions
The Braves could trade Kenshin Kawakami and dump maybe $3M on the Yanks, add Rodrigo Lopez if it comes to it, and get Andruw in. But, if it happens during this season, we’d likely send Matt Young back to Triple-A Gwinnett.
I’ve had a feeling we won’t see Andruw again. He will never get back to the 50 home run guy, the 8.3 WAR, or the 26.2 UZR we saw in ’05.
It would be nice to have him back for a season or two, but I just can’t see it happening. If we wait until the offseason or next year to do it, it will be more stupidical to do it because then Matt Young will already have one year under his belt. It’s too late now, because we already have Matt Young. Also, Matt Young has better defensive ability and more speed than Andruw Jones.
In 2010, Andruw has 278 at-bats, and had a .230 batting average and .341 OBP, and was 9-for-11 in stolen bases, and he had 1.8 WAR and 0.7 UZR with 118 balls in zone. In 2010 at Gwinnett, Matt Young had 487 at-bats, and had a .296 batting average and a .376 OBP, and was 38-for-45 in stolen bases. FanGraphs didn’t show his WAR or UZR.
Heyward lines a shot off the back of Collin Ballester, the Nats' pitcher and into left center field. The hit was so brutal, even Heyward could feel the vibration coming back at him.
There is no minor league UZR
Which is why UZR and WAR aren’t shown for them. As for Andruw, the Yankees would want more than two mediocre older starters—they have plenty of those already (Garcia and Colon, with Millwood in AAA). They have a need for Andruw too and we’d have to give up more than junk to get him.
and they just signed silva
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/yankees-sign-carlos-silva.html
People are like at least I'm not that guy on stage. That guy on stage is like at least I'm not that guy in the looney bin. The guy in the looney bin are like at least I'm an orange
Are we going to use a time machine to go back and get him when he was on steroids?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
This ^
CEO and Founder of the Draft Ryan Mallet bandwagon.
by DolphinNation on Apr 9, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think that much of the weight that Andruw put on over the years was muscle.
As it is, he hit 19 HR and posted a .341 OBP last season. He was much better than anyone we ran out in CF.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
No, like a lot of steroids guys, he put on the muscle, then had to get off the roids and it turned into fat.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
If he was muscular...
it was of the rounded variety. Never saw him as a potential user, maybe because he never had the definition of muscle or the quick increase/decrease, like I saw with say Chipper.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Apr 11, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
You didn’t think he was a user? Cause that’s all I thought during 2005. Just like Javy’s 2003, the dramatic turnaround from one season to the next was just too much.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
What turnaround?
Javy went from OPSing .670 the previous year to over 1.000. Andruw went from OPSing .833 to .922. He was 28 years old that season, I don’t find it particularly damning that a guy that age would show a jump in power and have a career year.
And all that aside, he was still worlds better last season than anyone we ran out there in CF.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
This
If you watched Andruw in 2005 and thought “steroids!” then you weren’t paying enough attention.
The guy had a career year in his prime. He hit 41 the next year as well. He just hit his prime hard and then his body gave out from all the years of playing 155+ games in CF.
Nathan Richard - Please come home. We all miss you.
Are you on the “Jose Bautista is a user” train as well? His career has taken a much more drastic one than Andruw.
There are a truckload of guys you can name who have had careers years seeing huge spikes in power, never to return to that level. If we assume, without any evidence, that Andruw Jones is a user, it is unfair not to assume everyone else was as well.
I definitely think something is funny with Bautista. The guy doubled his career homers in one season. That’s not fishy to you?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Not when you watch him
He completely tore apart his swing and put it back together again. He swings and approaches at bats very differently than he did coming up. I do recall in an offseason radio show that an anonymous Blue Jays official stated that Bautista was tested at 3 different times in 2010 with no negative results.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 11, 2011 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions
no negative results?
you mean positive right? because then that would be very bad lol
No
Negative test results would be good. I said negative results, which would include a positive test and the ramifications of it, not just the test.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 12, 2011 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Some others to consider
Players who in their prime years achieved one season that was in the same range (or even more outlandish) as Andruw’s age 28 season:
Andruw’s 2005 – 40% more than career previous high
Chipper’s 1999 – 32%
Mickey Mantle 1956 – 41%
Hack Wilson 1930 – 44%
Hank Greenberg 1938 – 45%
Willie Stargell 1971 – 45%
Jim Thome 1996 – 52%
Andre Dawson 1987 – 53%
Johnny Mize 1940 – 54%
David Ortiz 2003 – 55%
Roger Maris 1961 – 56%
Jimmie Foxx 1932 – 57%
Ted Kluszewski 1953 – 60%
George Foster 1977 – 79%
Rogers Hornsby 1922 – 100%
Stan Musial 1948 – 105%
Lou Gehrig 1927 – 135%
Kirby Puckett 1986 – 675%
Should we investigate roids on all the above?
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 11, 2011 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you measuring?
40% of what?
"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson
It looks like a percent increase from previous year’s HR’s.
by ducheneaux13 on Apr 11, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
40% more
Than previous career single-season high for home runs. So, if you hit 10 homers as your career best and then 20 the next season, it’s a 100% increase over previous career best. I primarily looked at guys who hit 50 or nearly 50 homers in a single season.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 11, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
might want to try mentioning home runs next time :)
"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson
I thought it was mentioned in the post I responded to
I see that it was “power” stated in that post, not specifically home run power. My bad!
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 12, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Rogers Hornsby
just had to be juicing. I certainly hope we didn’t let him into the HoF.
THE NL WEST WILL NAIL YOU IN THE RUSTY GROIN WITH SOMETHING --TheLetter2
www.duwanis.com
Do you really think Chipper used steroids? I’ve never heard his name in any sort of PED discussion, and I also don’t recall any abnormal increases/decreases in bulk
by ducheneaux13 on Apr 11, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
A look at the numbers
raises a little suspicion of Chipper’s 1999 MVP season. He hit an un-Chipper-like 45 homers that season which always made me wonder a little when the steroid accusations were being thrown around to all the top players of the era. Here’s his month to month splits along with dingerz and ribz:
BA/OBP/SLG HR,RBI
Apr: .277/.344/.506 5,15
May: .300/.408/.591 8,21
June: .293/.421/.444 1,9
July: .413/.558/.913 11,19
Aug: .336/.462/.701 10,23
Sept: .307/.438/.682 10,23
Notice from June to July where he went from slugging .444 to a Bondsian .913 just after the All-Star break. Looks pretty suspicious. Chipper is one of my favorite players of all-time so hopefully there’s a reasonable explanation for this. Maybe he was injured and got healthy with a few days of rest. Maybe it was due to the “ball being too tightly wound theory.” Maybe it was the weather. Maybe it was the socks.
Posey was out. -TheLetter2 Apr 4, 2011 3:53 PM EDT
I'm not smart enough to ever know....
but I don’t think it’s unpossible. His MVP season was more power than any other, and I recall him looking thicker, and much more muscular than he’d be a few short years later. Across the diamond that year was Ken Caminiti, an admitted user. Do I think he used, not really. But I wouldn’t be shocked if he did either. I’d certainly suspect him before Andruw just from physical appearance. Andruw always looked soft, and never had massive fluctuations in weight (he just steadily gained a gut). Chipper on the other hand, looked pretty cut for a while, and got thick before slimming back down.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Sorry for the length post, but here's an old quote from Chipper
"I’m like everybody else, I’d like to know that my heroes did it the right way," Jones said. "Guys like Manny and ARod [Alex Rodriguez], Barry [Bonds], Roger Clemens and Mark McGwire have so many fans across America that live and die with every at-bat or every pitch. And now they think differently."
…
"You can’t have arguably the greatest pitcher of our era, arguably the two greatest players of our era and now another very, very good player be under this cloud of suspicion and not feel like it’s ruined it for everybody," said Jones, referring to Clemens, Bonds, Rodriguez and Ramirez.
"But what are you going to do? You can’t be born in another era. It is what it is. It is the steroid era. We’re all going to have to answer steroid questions most likely for the rest of our career. We’re all going to have to be judged accordingly."
Jones said he hopes his body of work will speak for itself and fans will notice his name was never associated with any steroids speculation. But it’s still frustrating.
"I just hate to see people look down their nose at our game when there’s a very small percentage of players who are cheating," Jones said. "It just so happens that it’s magnified because it’s been the best players in our game that have been caught doing it."
I’m not saying that denying steroid use means he is completely innocent, but Chipper has always been one of the most honest interviews in the league. His words about a “very small percentage” seem a little off though. Maybe my heterosexual love for him is blinding me. Guys gain and lose weight in the off-season for plenty of reasons.
His 1999 season seems like a bit of an outlier, but he was in his prime at 27 years old on a very good team. I don’t see how PED use could cause a jump from 1 HR in June to 11 HR in July. That seems too immediate to me to be attributed to PED’s (maybe I’m totally off here). Chipper’s one on the greatest hitters of all time, and we’ve all seen what he could do when he was healthy. Nagging injuries have had a huge effect on his career, so maybe he was actually healthy and dialed in for that three month stretch.
I would worry if he had hit 60-70 in a year, but I don’t think 45 is all that unbelievable for a player of his caliber. Just my thoughts, but I can’t wrap my head around Chipper and steroids.
by ducheneaux13 on Apr 11, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
People forget in 1999
We were in the effects of expansion and the resulting decline in pitching that typically immediately follows an expansion.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 11, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not accusing Chipper but the signs are certainly there for the conspiracy theorists. Hitting 10+ homers in a month isn’t anything out of the ordinary but slugging .900+ certainly is. Chipper also has the same nagging injuries (muscle pulls, strains, etc) that the steroid users often had.
Posey was out. -TheLetter2 Apr 4, 2011 3:53 PM EDT
Signs are always there for the conspiracy theorists.
It’s the Texas Sharpshooter effect.
That’s one of the things that makes them so good at believing conspiracy theories.
THE NL WEST WILL NAIL YOU IN THE RUSTY GROIN WITH SOMETHING --TheLetter2
www.duwanis.com
FIFY
Chipper also has the same nagging injuries (muscle pulls, strains, etc) that the steroid users players his age throughout the history of the game often had.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 12, 2011 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
If we are gonna base steroid use on weight fluctuations then Brian McCann is in big trouble.
Chicks dig the long ball.
DOB: Did you ever hit balls as hard as Jason Heyward does?
Chipper: Is that possible?
It's not "weight fluctuations"...
as seemingly a quick increase in muscle, followed by a quick decrease in it. I recall him looking much thicker, more muscular in 99 than in 97 or 03.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
And again....
I’m not saying Chipper used, but if forced to pick between the two Joneses, he just seems more likely than Andruw to me. For the record, I’d put neither in the “used” category.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
so you’re completely convinced that andruw jones used steroids, but there’s no way schafer used HGH despite getting suspended for it?
oh, and let me guess: you still hate mike minor
by kbertling353 on Apr 13, 2011 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Geez
As I remember, the entire organization was behind Schafer on that suspension; seeing as it was the start of the Great Roid Rage, though, there wasn’t a lot of point in trying to fight it – it was easiest and less painful for everyone involved if Schafer just took the suspension and moved on.
Given the way our organization is built, I doubt that he’d still be here if they gave any credence to those accusations.
THE NL WEST WILL NAIL YOU IN THE RUSTY GROIN WITH SOMETHING --TheLetter2
www.duwanis.com
I don’t like you very much either.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
by cbwilk on Apr 14, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"Brave New World"
“Why the Braves should re-acquire Andruw Jones/sign Ken Griffey Jr.”
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
Or a minimum of 30 times
…in the offseason…
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Apr 10, 2011 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions
We pretty clearly should have signed Andruw to platoon in CF and provide that RH bat off the bench that our fearless manager realized that we needed late in ST instead of our annual few million wasted on “Veteran Presence” signings, but we’re not getting him from the Yankees at this point.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
That's what I'm saying
we were so set on Brooks Conrad repeating last year’s performance and convinced that Joe Mather was the next Jayson Werth for whatever ridiculous reason, that we failed to capitalize and sign Andruw. Hell we should have gotten him last year instead of the likes of Rick Ankiel. Right now our bench is awful particularly from the right side.
In our bench this year, we replaced Infante and Diaz with Hicks and Young, a significant downgrade. Combine that with the natural regression of Brooks Conrad back to the terrible ballplayer he is, and the bench is pretty awful.
by DreamWithinADream on Apr 10, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
