Who Should Be The Braves Closer?
This is one of those topics that I'm sure we could argue about all night, but I'm going to throw it out there, tell you what I think, and see what everyone else says. In a nutshell, I'm of the opinion that Jonny Venters should be the Braves closer to start the season, not Craig Kimbrel. My reasons:
- Venters has a year of Major League experience under his belt, Kimbrel is still wet behind the ears in the Majors. Let Kimbrel settle in for a full year before heaping him with the pressure of closing for a contending team.
- Venters has better control and is less likely to get himself into trouble. Even though Venters had a 4.2 BB/9 rate last year, that's right in line with his career minor league rate of 4.1. Kimbrel on the other hand had a 7.0 BB/9 rate in the Majors last year (much of that early on), but his career minor league BB/9 rate is 5.7 (and it was exactly 5.7 last year at Gwinnett).
- Even though Venters is a lefty, he's not at all a LOOGY. His lefty-righty splits last year were pretty much the same except for a higher SO/9 ratio against LHH. Venters doesn't seem to strike out as many RHH, though he walks fewer RHH. He also faced RHH twice as much as LHH last year. Venters doesn't need to be the LOOGY, the Braves have two other guys to fill that role -- George Sherrill and Eric O'Flaherty.
Much like the Braves did two years ago when they had Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano, they can employ two closers and matchup the best guy according to the situation. I just can't get past wanting the experience of Venters in the ninth inning, and I believe he's every bit as dominant as Kimbrel. It may be Kimbrel who is the closer at year's end, but I vote for Venters to start the year as the team's stopper.
Kimbrel will still have an important role to play as a key pitcher in high-leverage situations in late innings, but in those situations there will typically be other relievers warming up to come into the game in case Kimbrel gets wild. As a closer in the ninth inning there wouldn't be anyone else warming up in the bullpen, a bullpen that may already be depleted of its other high-leverage setup arms.
Let me know what you think in the comments. There's also a poll.
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Scott Proctor.
Morgan: Do you think I could come into the clubhouse after the game and display my ass for both those veterans and the younger guys?
Baker: Well, Joe, you are on the payroll of the team, and you're a legend, so I suppose — holy shit!
[Joe has appeared next to Dusty, in the dugout, completely naked]
Morgan: Hey.
by TradeAndruw on Mar 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
LOL
That’d be like having Jeffy bat leadoff.
That Heyward guy is pretty good.
by another simpsons avatar on Mar 17, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Despite the fact that Venters came out of nowhere and only has one great year behind him, I don’t really view Venters as a question mark at all. I feel pretty comfortable saying that he’s going to continue to shut hitters down in 2011, and I’d be just fine with him being the closer to start the season.
I love both of them, and I can’t believe we actually get to have both of these guys on our team as long as we do (speaking about how far away from free agency they are). Still, Kimbrel is a little shaky with his accuracy, and until he’s really proven that he can hone it again like he did at the end of last year, Venters should get the nod ahead of him.
After watching Kimbrell pitch in August/September last year.....
Experience is overrated.
The kid can pitch, can pitch in pressure situations, and his wildness is Vaughn like, in that guys just can’t seem to place where the pitches are going. I like that, and prefer being able to get the strike out with consistency because he’s not going to throw two pitches in the same spot twice.
If he was getting rocked because his balls were missing the spots, but staying in the zone, and at a hittable level, that’s one thing. Guys are missing because they just can’t figure out where to swing, and that is great for a closer.
Better, in my opinion, than being able to get a ground ball.
by garlick on Mar 17, 2011 3:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kimbrel
This is a bad thing that we have… 2 good yound closers with All star potential and the worst part we can’t chose which one to close. Man this stinks…
I was looking at both guys splits and I was just amazed at the differnce in the stats. I know Kimbrel hasn’t had the “experience” , but if Venters can come in a pitch a whole season at his potential then why can’t kimbrel
vs R vs L
Kimbrel .077 .177
Venters .206 .192
I think Venters should come into save against a hard lefty lineup such as Philly, but otherwise Kimbrel should save. If Kimbrel falters than we can just put in Venters. Kimbrel has the firepower and the whiffs but Kimbrel has groundballs and half the amount of whiffs. I would even be happy with a platoon.
"I came to the Mets to be on a winning team"
-Chris Young
agreed
It’s awesome having both. And I loved that Venters wasn’t just a situational lefty last year, BUT, I lean towards Kimbrel. If it ends up being a Soriano/Gonzalez type situation, fine. But I think Craig, who has been groomed for the job, should get the nod. At least initially.
Either way, WOW. Helluva “problem” to have.
by SidBreamsSlide on Mar 17, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Kimbrel’s been groomed as a closer. Even with his high walk rate, he’s managed a low WHIP (1.12) and ERA (1.85) in the Minors. He’s struck out 14.4/9 over the course of 151 innings. Enough said. Give me Kimbrel.
Bubba Sparxxx: It's gettin' Uggla...IN HERE! UP IN HERE!
Our pitching decisions
really don’t concern me at all. I’d be happy with Venters or Kimbrel closing, just like I’d be happy with either Beachy or Minor in the 5th slot. I don’t see a major difference one way or the other, and in the event our first choice doesn’t work out, the second option is still there to back him up.
"…the umps in San Francisco somehow missed Brooks Conrad’s tag at second base on a sliding Buster Posey, who could’ve been called out from a houseboat in Sausalito."
-- Tommy Craggs
both?
i would rather use them based on the match ups. It’s a shame how the save stat has ruined bullpen management.
by Windu on Mar 17, 2011 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Kimbrel is still wet behind the ears in the Majors. Let Kimbrel settle in for a full year before heaping him with the pressure of closing for a contending team.
Didn’t stop Jonathan Papelbon. Dude tuned up for 34 innings one year (which is more than Kimbrel’s 21, but it’s not like there’s an ocean of difference there), then walked out and saved 35 with a sub-1 ERA the next year. I’m not saying Kimbrel will or should be expected to put up a sub-1 ERA, but if you’ve got it, you’ve got it, and there’s no sense in coddling him. A 2.50 or less ERA and 30-40 saves ought to be attainable. And let’s face it- we know Kimbrel’s going to walk a lot of folks. Unless he really refines his control over the next year or two, which is doubtful given how high his walk rate stayed in the minors, those walks are coming regardless, so just install him as closer and let’s be done with it.
"Life is a lot like a baseball game- you want your team to win, you want it to be a thriller, you don't want it to be called short on account of nature, and you wouldn't mind if it went into extra innings." -Dante Shepherd, survivingtheworld.net
Both
Are good and it could be argued that Kimbrel should get the bulk of closing and Venters should be set up, as setup men tend to come in with inherited runners and has a smaller margin for error, whereas in a save situation the team could be up 3 runs
"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann
by HansonManCrush on Mar 17, 2011 4:06 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I say venters..but..it just depends on what the lineup coming up in the 9th
looks like..I faced Kimbrel twice before..drew a walk and struckout..got nasty stuff.
The poster formally known as SidGlaus
Both
Depending on who is available and which hitters are up in the ninth…. I think both will be closers in the Major Leagues
Prado could probably learn to be our closer, if we told him he was being replaced in LF and we needed him to close.
Chicks dig the long ball.
by kimrob1 on Mar 17, 2011 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
closer
What a Great choice to have…….both are beast !
Really surprised Venters is leading the vote
Kimbrel is just too dominating to put anywhere else. If a guy is getting a 15K/9 or better, there’s no place to put him but closing the door.
How do I feel? Like f**king success - Jordan Schafer
We had the midget mafia over at second base: Me, Uggla and Conrad - Matt Young
Closer vs Setup man
To me, setup men get more innings. There is a greater chance of Venters pitching in the 6th, 7th, or 8th innings in a close game than coming in in the 8th/9th innings when he is a closer.
Based on that fact along, I want Venters to eat up innings and be our setup man so that we can GET to the 9th and let Kimbrel close it down for us.
Plus, Kimbrel was supposedly built for the closing role. I’m not sure how I like him as a setup man (but that is personal opinion that can’t be translated into facts).
No option C?
the mix and match ala Soriano/Gonzo a few years ago move? Gonzo and Wren have discussed this exact option as likely to start the year.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Both kids are filthy...
good…closer by committee is the way to go, keep em both fresh all year long…
Keeps the price down by limiting the magical Save number too.
by Atlantaspike on Mar 17, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed with a few other folks
that the best way of doing it is the platoon option. Since both guys are young and seem pretty ego-free, it shouldn’t be too much of an issue. And the benefits are potentially large, particularly since Fredi can also switch them off easily if one is overworked or struggling. I just don’t see a reason to “choose” one or the other, at least not yet. If one pitches much better than the other in the first couple months, maybe you reevaluate then.
I do think we are all probably overvaluing Jonny a bit… I think last year may end up being his career year… He seemed to benefit from luck quite a bit, too. Of course, I still think he’s pretty damn good, and certainly capable of closing. Just not “ERA under 2.00 every year” good. Of course, Kimbrel’s no sure thing, either. I rate them about even for this season.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
Kimbrel..
if for no other reason than you don’t want your Carlos Marmol type coming into the game in any situation except a clean inning, when you can help it.
Venters is versatile in that he mixes in strikeouts and groundballs, with the latter making him valuable in mopping up another reliever’s mess. Though I don’t agree with using a reliever in a strict 9th inning save situation only role, we’re almost certainly going to get that regardless.
Does anyone have the ST schedule link?
by TBuzz on Mar 17, 2011 9:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This could be a catastrophe in the making...
Kimbrel 8, Venters 9…I would like to see Kimbrel get a year under his belt in the set up role. The one thing that cannot happen is the “two headed monster” routine. Give them each their own job, which ever it is, and let them prove their metal for the entire season. Let’s just hope this offense and our starters meet their capabilities and we won’t have need for too many saves right?
Billy Wagner
Still on roster.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
could you imagine
wagner as closer
venters as lh setup
kimbrel as rh setup
every game would be 7 innings long
Is there a reason Wagner hasn’t retired yet? I think I read something about it having something to do with the option year the Braves gave him and that somehow by waiting to retire it saves the Braves money. I have no idea if that’s true or if I misread something. I’d just like to know if there is actually a reason why he hasn’t officially retired.
Probably true...
If he’s on the 40-man and not getting paid, it’s saving us from promoting a guy to make 40-man money. Once we need to fill that spot, he could go…it probably isn’t much money, tho.
But I don’t know that there’s a rule against leaving a 40-man spot empty, either…so maybe I’m just blowing smoke up your ass.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
There better not be
We had 37 men on the 40-man at one point last year, if I recall correctly.
"…the umps in San Francisco somehow missed Brooks Conrad’s tag at second base on a sliding Buster Posey, who could’ve been called out from a houseboat in Sausalito."
-- Tommy Craggs
I agree w those who consider the roles more than the degree of awesomeness these pitchers possess.. I do think you manage the bull pen to get centers the close against a team w a left handed heart. I also agree you don’t want kimbrel with out a clean slate. It is also nice to have an 8th inning guy that can get another guy out of a jam, and that is not kimbrel.
by willlinn on Mar 17, 2011 11:50 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
also, if yiu make venters closer
You have the problem of demoting him when kimbrel is ready and that’s bs if he is pitching well… so I think early you keep it loose, let them both into some 8th and 9th innings, then you hope to move into a semi platoon in which kimbrel is the closer, but is flexible to who is coming up in the order between the 8th or 9th
by willlinn on Mar 17, 2011 11:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Kimbrel or Venters?
This is one of those “good problems”. It’s like trying to choose between a smokin hot brunette and a smokin hot blonde…yet knowing that you still get to have both
That's the great thing
We don’t even have to sneak around and try to manage two dates on one night, sitcom-style. From what I’ve seen with these guys, I don’t think we have to worry too much about hurting anybody’s feelings this year.
"…the umps in San Francisco somehow missed Brooks Conrad’s tag at second base on a sliding Buster Posey, who could’ve been called out from a houseboat in Sausalito."
-- Tommy Craggs
venters
If kimbrell is not the closer he can be used in high pressure situations that we need a righty for. I don’t quite trust Linebrink with the game on the line and in my mind Moylan is the groundball double play guy.
You won't always agree with me...Because sometimes you're wrong.
by JonnyBravesFan on Mar 19, 2011 9:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

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