The Pitching Logjam
The Atlanta Braves have a problem that is not actually a problem at all -- too much pitching. 2010 was a great year for the pitching staff, but 2011 may be even better. Like last year, the bullpen may see a turnover rate to improve the club. Here were the guys we broke camp with last year on the opening day roster.
SP: Lowe, Hudson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Kawakami Bullpen: Wagner, Saito, Moylan, O'Flaherty, Chavez, Medlen, Jo-Jo
Here is what we ended up with:
Lowe, Judson, Hanson, Jurrjens, Beachy Wagner, Venters, Kimbrel, Saito, Moylan, Farnsworth, Minor
The rotation stayed largely stagnant, but the bullpen saw a big turnover rate with only Wagner, Saito, and Moylan finishing the year on the active roster. High turnover rate isn't always a bad thing, as the bullpen got better after dropping the dead weight (Reyes and Chavez) and later adding much more talented arms from AAA (Venters, Kimbrel, Minor). As far as I know, there isn't going to be any dead weight breaking camp this year, unless the front office goes against their better judgement and have Scott Proctor on the big league roster. Since we currently have a logjam of pitching, here is how the process should go through the year to make the team better: I don't expect much turnover in the rotation this year, but Brandon Beachy will get some callups this year to get some starts at the big league level. There's no way all our starters make all their starts. The bullpen should see some turnover this year to tinker with what works and what doesn't. Even pitchers who perform effectively may get replaced. Linebrink and Sherrill are both new additions and while neither are spectacular, they both should be effective. However, one or both could be replaced by season's end. Here's how I see the Braves breaking camp and ending the season in the bullpen.
Kimbrel, Venters, Linebrink, O'Flaherty, Moylan, Sherril, Marek (or possibly Proctor)
Here's what the Braves' bullpen should look like in September once rosters expand
Kimbrel, Venters, Marek, Teheran, Sherrill, Delgado, Moylan, O'Flaherty, with Beachy as a swing man
When/If playoffs come around, I don't see Linebrink finishing the entire season at age 35. If I was Fredi Gonzalez, I'd want his contributions to the team to be made frequently in the earlier part of the season. Linebrink's ERA+ has been about league average the past two years, but since we have a plethora of pitchers in the wing, it makes more sense to expect him to perform well early and replace him later in the season if need be. I think Sherrill will be effective as a LOOGY as long as he's used correctly. For a playoff roster, we'll need to cut the bullpen to seven and I'd leave off either O'Flaherty or Moylan (whichever pitcher is less effective or not as healthy). It may be a little presumptuous of me to expect both Teheran and Delgado to pitch out of the bullpen this September, but they both held up pretty well last year in A/AA with them pitching 142 and 161 innings respectively. Vizcaino is another great talent, of course, with his fastball clocking at 100mph this March, but his durability issues make it extremely unlikely he'll throw a pitch in the majors this year. Teheran and Delgado both have the ability and durability to earn a big league callup to help the team. Craig Kimbrel was a great example of that last year. Even though Kimbrel was a reliever in the minors, hotshot prospect starters can still make an impact in the bullpen during their first callups. After all, David Price in 2008 was a starter who came and pitched out of the bullpen in September and in the playoffs for the Rays. He pitched so effectively that he was the pitcher who closed out the ALCS against the Red Sox. Imagine having two David Prices! Again, this may be wishful thinking, but all indications so far show those two talents, after another five months in the minors, could make the Braves better if they were both in the bullpen.
In 2012, I'd expect Jurrjens, a Boras client, to get traded in the offseason with either Kris Medlen or Brandon Beachy pitching in the fifth spot in the rotation to start off the year and have Julio Teheran get called up in early June like Hanson and Strasburg to extend another year of arbitration eligibility. So, the 2012 rotation should be Hanson, Hudson, Lowe, Minor, Medlen/Beachy with Teheran filling in the fifth spot in early June. 2012 should see another year of waiting in the wings for Delgado and Vizcaino once Lowe and possibly Hudson come off the books. Whatever happens happens, but it's a good time to be a Braves fan.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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Seems likely to be an "SB Nation Editors Pick"
Great summary, excellent knowledge of the Braves’ situation, absolutely nothing controversial
by Bravenewworld2 on Mar 17, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
haha
The Editors Picks have usually been a joke.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
So “Tidbits” was a joke to you?
Morgan: Do you think I could come into the clubhouse after the game and display my ass for both those veterans and the younger guys?
Baker: Well, Joe, you are on the payroll of the team, and you're a legend, so I suppose — holy shit!
[Joe has appeared next to Dusty, in the dugout, completely naked]
Morgan: Hey.
Are we trading JJ because he is a Boras client?
Because Hanson is also a Boras client, so we are going to trade him too? If that is the reason why a lot of people are on the trade JJ boat, then that’s plain stupid. If we are trading him because of cost then fine but Lowe and KK are coming off the books. I rather trade Beachy or Meds before JJ unless we can get a great package for JJ.
2013 Rotation: Hanson, Teheran, JJ, Minor, Delgado……damn
I think at this point I might rather have Meds than JJ
But only bc my gut tells me JJ might not perform at his pre-2010 levels. I don’t really have any reasonable evidence.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
JJ and Hanson are both Boras clients, but Hanson is worth a lot more because he’s under team control for five more years as opposed to two. He’s also better. JJ can garner a lot more in a trade than Medlen or Beachy, so there’s value there. I think Medlen spends nearly all his time with the Braves in the bullpen and Beachy will likely be traded for a spare part at some point (like how we traded to get Derek Lee last year).
That Heyward guy is pretty good.
by another simpsons avatar on Mar 17, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions
medlen proved his worth as a starter
If he pitches well in relief we will let him start again or get value from trading him
by willlinn on Mar 18, 2011 12:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
SP this year
No matter how good your pitching is you almost always go 7 or 8 deep in the rotation during a long season. I’m betting Beachy and Teheran or Delgado make starts this year. Also, the Braves should trade JJ not because he is a Boras client but because like all arbitration eligible players, he is getting expensive. And he is probably replaceable from within the farm system.
Teheran??
I don’t know, I feel like the organization is gonna be EXTRA cautious with him
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
by TurnerTheBurner on Mar 17, 2011 9:35 PM EDT reply actions
Come July/August, Meds will be an extreme boost to the pitching staff.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Mar 18, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Reply fail
Meant for BronxBraveFan
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Mar 18, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
If he is dominating AAA in July and August,
what else is there to do with him but promote him to the MLB bullpen and see if he can help? At least by putting him in the pen you can limit his innings. I think that actually is the cautious approach.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Mar 18, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Medlen
I almost forgot about him…but how could I? He’s so solid. I just want Proctor off the damned roster ASAP – what a waste.
Isn’t it great to see his name come up. I love me some Kris Medlen.
"This stadium is upside down!!!" -Jim Powell, 4/5/2010
by Cammando2317 on Mar 18, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Martinez
I really think Christhian Martinez will grab that last bullpen spot. I love Marek and think he’s ready too but Fredi’s familiarity with Martinez and his solid spring have him in line for that last spot imho.
You are safe on that one.
Marek was sent down Thursday.
I hope Martinez grabs the last spot, but
are the Braves really going to move Proctor? I don’t think so
Why is Wags STILL on the active roster? Someone who is more knowledgeable on the subject please tell us about some of the precedents for situations like these. Is it time to start writing letters to wags?
After “Dear Wags,” what should all of our letters say?
I am in no way knowledgeable on the subject, but would surmise and guess FW and the agent (whatyshisname, stringbeanfellow?) have been talking, privately.
I doubt that.
Either he’ll file the papers or we’ll put him on the restricted list (thereby removing him from the roster) whenever we need the roster spot.
it simply makes no sense whatsoever. if FW believed Wags was absolutley done, the Braves should have already placed him on the restricted list. why haven’t they done so?
Even if he's not...
you put him as restricted (not that familiar with it though), and bring him back whenever he decides he’s coming back, if he’s coming back at all. So strange.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Dont need the spot?
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
I’m buying this argument less and less as time passes.
FW and Bean Stringfellow really haven’t found the time the entire off-season and all of spring training to resolve this?
My question is how often has this happened and to what end?
I dont think its a matter of them finding the time.
I mean, all that has to happen is Bean filing some paperwork.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
Kawakami
How have we not traded this guy? There is virtually no starting pitching on the market and we have a guy that, while his numbers arent great, would break into many a MLB rotation.
If we don’t trade him, how is he not good enough to make at least the bullpen?
If we don’t want him, why not cut him? Are are we just waiting until the last possible day?
RE: Kawakami
This is the same thing we said about Lowe last year. Teams might make dumb moves from time and time again but they are not blind idiots. Most teams need proper convincing to take a player like KK. As I can tell, these GMs will look at his Win/Loss record, his ERA over the past two seasons, scouting reports from thier ppl and Braves rival scouts, and his SALARY (the worst thing againsts KK)!!! All these different criterias add up to KK not being moved anytime soon. Deperation is not a valid reason to trade for anybody.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Mar 18, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
*desperation
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Mar 18, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Does anybody know how big leaguers are paid in spring training?
Are we paying for KK now?
I know they get hotel suites and meals paid for, but does their regular season pay start in ST?
That Heyward guy is pretty good.
by another simpsons avatar on Mar 18, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Each player is different, but most are paid 12 months a year.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
Twitter: @ScottColeman55
by Scott Coleman on Mar 18, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
1st and 15th if you have a signed major league deal I believe.
Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"
Salary is not an issue, as we've made it clear we'll pick up a good size chunk...
and even at $5m, Kawakami is worth it considering how he’s pitched the last two years. At $3-4m, he’s even more valuable.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Mar 18, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Understandable, and maybe I am underestimating how tight a team’s purse strings are.
I personally think he can contribute to the big club, particularly as a reliever and spot-starter. I’ve never thought he looked utterly overmatched at the big league level. He doesn’t look great, but he’s not Dontrelle Willis.
The only reason we haven't traded him
is that Wren is looking to get more in return than he’s been offered so far. He’s going to pay a big chunk of the salary no matter what, but I think he wants to get a potentially useful piece in return… which explains the wait.
There is no question that KK can be an effective MLB starter in the right situation. It’s just a matter of waiting now. I hope for his sake that he gets traded before the season starts.
"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson
by Jacob Peterson on Mar 18, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Personally...
I want him in our bullpen more than on some bottom feeder teams rotation. Let him prove his worth here and make the naysayers eat crow. He’s not a 3/4 as some loved to say, but the guy ain’t bad, is good enough for the 5 spot, and was effective in relief in 09.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Mar 18, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
really?
You rather have him in the bullpen in ATL rather than starting on another team? He might be starting on a bad team, but at least he will be pitching every five days.
If that "other team" is only willing to eat $2m or less...
yes. If they will eat $3-4+m, then let him go.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
But as indicated all winter...
not enough money for Wren to move KK.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
so you really think he will break camp with the team? the only other option is we pay his full salary to pitch in the minors, which seems just ridiculious.
"so you really think he will break camp with the team?"
Where did I say I think he breaks camp with the team?
That said, I certainly thinks he’s pitching better and would be a better option than Proctor. Martinez would be my personal choice for that last bullpen spot though.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Mar 20, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
If you believe what Wren says on the subject.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
So you think he hasn't had any offers?
otherwise, it’s obviously not eating enough money to make him find the deal worthwhile.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Mar 20, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You actually think Wren has leverage in this KK situation that he can dictate who gets him base on best package? I doubt that is the case. I bet we will end up keeping him for majority of the season.
16 Division Titles, 7 NL Pennants, 1 Wild Card, 3 World Series Titles....this is the Braves.
by romone_braves91 on Mar 19, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree on a few things
I don’t think putting Julio in the bullpen at any point is a good idea. it’s just hard to go from a starter to the bullpen back to being a starter all within 2 years and being only 20 y.o. Price did well in the roll but that’s a small sample size and it also affected his move back to starting in his first year.
You also act like Brandon Beachy is a thrown in or not as valuable as the other guy. I’ll contend that he’s just as valuable as Minor or JJ. Beachy is a really good ball player and I wouldn’t be surprised if he beats out Minor for that 5th spot. He has out-pitched Minor in spring training IMO. We’ll just have to see how it goes I guess but I think Beachy has a chance to be a solid #3 on any rotation. He has that good of stuff and he’s only been pitching for 4 years now. Think of how good he’ll be in 2 more years.
Would he really be going from starter to bullpen to starter again? We’re only talking about putting him in the bullpen for a couple of months. After an entire offseason, in which he will know that he is a starting pitcher and not a reliever, I doubt very seriously that those couple of months as a reliever will have a detrimental impact on his 2012 season.
The thing is
Wren and the entire Braves FO want Minor to be that #5 starter because he was a very criticized 1st round pick. For Minor to not get the spot he would have to completely fail the remaining way and Beachy would have to pitch like Cy Young
by drumzalicious on Mar 19, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That and minor is probably a better pitcher
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
thus far
there hasn’t really been anything to show for this. they have performed pretty equally this spring up until their last starts. Last year was nothing to really judge them on either. Minor was fading cause he was tired. Beachy came up and pitched amazing in a playoff push.
by drumzalicious on Mar 20, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I think 2012 will be an even bigger logjam
Possible Starters:
Hudson
Hanson
Lowe
Jurrjens
Minor
Medlen
Beachy
Teheran
Delgado
Not to mention the always emergence of someone we haven’t really heard of or paid attention too. Thats 9+ starting pitching canidates for our 5 man rotation next year.
I love this “problem” because we will be looking for a new SS and possibly LF/3B next year.
+1
I agree that is D.Lowe has a great season in 2011 Atlanta is going to sell high as F. Wren loves to do to the highest bidder plus he is getting no younger so trading him after this season would be a wise move. Secondly trading JJ as many of you have posted a Boras client aka BIG MONEY IS BUT what two / three years away when his arb years are up then trading him could be a wise move but the Braves may wait until 2013 to do that.
Still to acquire the likes of a S. Drew or better yet a young gun to play 3B to replace Chipper is a wise move as well. After this season the holes are pretty much clear already a new SS, CF and starting 3B. Even if Nate Mclouth has a great year Atlanta is doubtful to resign him, Schafer may never be the guy, and M. Young looks to be the second coming of G. Blanco leaving us thin in the CF department so acquiring one is key. 3B is another place of interest and I would welcome the idea of trying to get A. Ramierz (forgive the shitty spelling) from the Cubs or wait until the offseason and take a run at him in Free agency. SS is a place where you can look for power or for speed and really power seems to be an easier mark to find when talking SS still the Braves have Tyler Pastronicky whom they are really high on at this moment but they once had the same idea from Brent Lillibridge as well so who knows.
Either way D. Lowe is gone after 2011 and JJ is on the bubble as trade bait but I will not say that JJ will not be a Brave in 2012 b.c. with Teheran ready the Braves may opt to have JJ hang around till the All – Star break or the entire season as a mentor and insurance for the young arm fireballer.
by Holty_Panthers_Fan on Mar 20, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
3B is Prado....
it’s easier to find a LF than a 3B considering he could play both. So when Chipper is done, it’s a lot easier to replace him with Prado and get a LF than leave Prado in LF and find a 3B.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
There is no need to keep JJ around to mentor him. We will have Hudson still. Not to mention David Ross has been a HUGE influence on our pitchers. I remember him jumping on Hanson about holding runners last year. With those two around and the great environment the Braves have created within their organization I’m sure he will have plenty of people to go to.
Drew would be a decent pick up. I have a feeling the Braves will give the job to one of our prospects if they perform good this season. If not we could see Gonzalez back since there aren’t very many options for SS.
I reeeeeaaaalllly would love Grady Sizemore if he rebounds this year.
by drumzalicious on Mar 20, 2011 4:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

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