Liriano on the block!?
According to MLBTR and the attached link, Liriano could be made available. I know we have a glut of pitching prospects ready to take over the majors but there has to be interest in a top flight pitcher who has survived Tommy John surgery... We have gotten a great look at him when he fanned us 11 times on June 11th.
We have the talent to bring him in but looking at the cost of other pitchers who have moved teams who rate similiarly... Would we have to pillage the minors to bring him in and would it be worth it? He's got two years left on his contract and would be under no stress to be our ace right now... Especially if we can keep Teheran out of the deal... Am I the only one interested in the prospect package it would take to get him? I'm not the best at this but this is what I'd offer:
Minor (or Beachy), Pastornicky, Schaffer, C level prospect... Would that even get a conversation started or do y'all think one of Delgado/Teheran/Vizcaino would have to be the cornerstone?
Twins don't have much depth at SS in the minors and they would get two MLB ready players, a potential #2 and a project for someone they are not willing to offer a long term contract to...
Another idea... If Texas wants to move Young and Minnesota wants to add him... could a three way deal be worked out where we get Liriano, Texas get prospects, and Twins get Young...
This is my first fanshot so be gentle.
over 1 year ago
Klemson Krash
49 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Why? We have no need to trade for SP. This becomes magnified 10x when you talk about trading away our future pitching to bring in a SP.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 10, 2011 12:43 PM EST reply actions
Right... I got that...
But… if we’re getting someone who has survived Tommy John surgery already… has experience on a championship caliber team.. and can be a potential ace… Wouldn’t he be worth at least exploring? Especially in a multi team trade scenario? And if we give up a potential talent for a known talent… Isn’t that ok? Pitching prospects are all a shoulder injury from being derailed. Not saying Liriano won’t be derailed by another injury… Lord knows he’s had his share.. but so many prospect “flame out”… and i think Liriano has proven he won’t even after the injuries…
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, “survivor of TJ surgery” is not really something that I would look for on a pitcher’s resume.
This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Feb 10, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
If I'm not mistaken...
Those who have been through it once, don’t tend to see the surgery again… A high majority of them in fact… It’s almost become a rite of passage for really good young pitchers.
It doesn’t scare me away as much as it would have in the 90s or early 2000s…
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
It doesn't scare me...
like the term “torn labrum” does, that’s for sure.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
In all fairness, there aren’t that many top of the rotation type lefties around, so it’s not THAT horrible of an idea. Maybe JJ and a prospect or two?
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
JJ plus a prospect for Liriano at $4.3M and team control in 2012 seems ok to me. I’d love for the Braves to have a good LHP.
Free Matt Young!
Liriano suggested a 3 yr $39M extension, I don’t think we need to get into that boat considering our pitching on the farm, but I wouldn’t mind having him as a Brave at all.
Free Matt Young!
Exactly what I was thinking. JJ and Liriano are pretty similar and have the same walk year, but we could use a great lefty to shut down the Phils. Minnesota doesn’t lose anything competatively now, get a decent prospect or two, and JJ would likely be cheaper to sign long term if they went that route.
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
Given how Lefty the Phillies are...
(well, Ibanez, Howard, and Utley) I could def see throwing a southpaw at them. We’re a little short on that side of the mound.
Sandy Alderson: "There's 'no market' for Luis Castillo or Oliver Perez, even if we wanted to trade them." (All you need to know about the Mets).
Lots of very interesting points I didn't consider...
I didn’t think of the JJ trade option and I also didn’t think of the awesomeness of having a lefty destroy the Phils…
Thanks for the feedback.
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
They're contemplating trading Liriano because he's pricing himself out of their budget
What makes you think Jurrjens, a Boras client no less, is any different?
Follow me on Twitter at @JakeHumphrey91
by Jake Humphrey on Feb 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Because they would be getting JJ plus a prospect or two. Plus, with JJ being a righty, he’d probably cost a bit less than Liriano.
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree...
They’re contemplating trading him because the value of prospects netted from a trade now exceeds Liriano’s likely value during the next two years before he hits free agency.
You never hear people asking if the Twins will re-sign Player X long-term because 95% of the time (Mauer exception) they trade the player away for valuable prospects before it ever reaches that point.
The Twins are and likely will continue to be a smaller market team that does a great job turning great prospects into great players, and then trades them off for more great prospects. It’s a great strategy that generally works pretty well for them.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
This...
and it’s why any package for Liriano would begin with some combination of JJ, Hanson, Teheran, Delgado, and Minor, or else they hang up. And Wren clearly isn’t willing to part with one of those 5.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
I think they has a payroll over 100M if not close to 110M
That isn’t a small market team, but I agree with what you are saying
Yes on small market...
The market has very little to do with how much money an owner has. The Pohlads are billionaires, so the Twins could probably operate like the Yankees for decades before money actually became a concern. The Twin Cities are about the 21st of 30 MLB teams in terms of supporting metro area’s size, so the revenue (and thus profit) is less, but the owner can still spend whatever they wish.
However, they have spent much less than the Braves have in prior years, until last season when their payroll ballooned by about $32.5MM (97.7 from 65.3…their previous high was 71.4, but it was an anomaly, as most recent payrolls fell around 55 million, with a couple 65s sprinkled in).
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
The ballpark was a huge part of that
They knew they’d get a big bump, and it was about 3-4 times the bump they thought it would be in its first year. That is why money to keep around guys is not going to be an issue anymore. Think Eric Bedard package when you think Twins value on Liriano, not Johan Santana package.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Feb 15, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
Teheran for Liriano. Who hangs up first?
by blitzerlover on Feb 10, 2011 1:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wren makes a fart noise in the phone and then hangs up.
Lady: What?!? How did HE get to Heaven?
GOD: Oh, he was in a different area code, so technically it wasn't cheating..
by bwellnjonesco on Feb 10, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see it happening.
It just isn’t a good mesh. The package suggested in the fanshot wouldn’t be enough; a team that needs pitching (I hear there is one in the Bronx) would offer more. It isn’t that I wouldn’t love Liriano in our rotation, it is just that I don’t want to give up what it would take to get him. I am also not sure how having one Tommy John surgery already makes Liriano safer, injury-wise, as many pitchers have multiple Tommy John surgeries and Liriano’s motion is still very high stress.
We’d have him for 2 years then let him walk for picks. I’d be fine with a package centered around JJ for him, and I think it would be pretty fair.
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
But it wouldn't be...
close to the package they could get from elsewhere.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
How many others will offer a guy who has finished in the top 5 for a Cy Young and is under 25?
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
In terms of total package and fitting what they're looking for?
several
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Let the Yankees trip over themselves to give up their top minor league talent for Liriano
"It's going to be strange watching There's Something About Mary again, knowing Brett Favre was the biggest stalker of them all"
Maybe... but.....
Wouldn’t anything they offer revolve around Jesus Montero? I believe that’s who they’ve been offering to most teams who offer up a top player.. For some reason, they have not been able to move him. Be it, inability to defensively play catcher (or any other position for that matter) or not believing his MiLB stats will translate to the big leagues (I do believe he will hit the cover off the ball)… Do the Yanks really have a lot of “top” minor league talent? I know they have a pitcher in AA who is pretty good but I will have to show my ignorance of their minor league team… (If you’ve read in a recent post of mine in another thread, I’m not a huge Yankees fan)
What would they offer in order to lure the Twins to trade w/ them?
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think...
They have a top 10 farm system, from most of what I’ve read. I think I’ve seen it rated as high as sixth.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yanks system is deep. Even without Montero, they could build a package around Banuelos and add in more young arms (Betances, Noesi, Brackman, Nova, etc) or catchers (Sanchez, Romine, Murphy) or infielders (Nunez, Laird, Adams).
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/12/15/1878701/new-york-yankees-top-20-prospects-for-2011
I don’t think they are offering Montero around recklessly. He’s going to be a monster offensively whatever position he plays. It does seem that the Yankees might think he’s not an everyday catcher but he’s a premium bat thats blocked at 1B in NY.
"It's going to be strange watching There's Something About Mary again, knowing Brett Favre was the biggest stalker of them all"
I would like to applaud your use of the Fanshot…this is well done…I don’t think its a option to really explore…bc I doubt the Twins are that motivated to trade him and i doubt the Braves are that motivated to get a SP…and as mentioned the Yankees will outbid us if he truly is on the block (which I doubt).
This article reeks of February baseball boredom. But i love how stats based it was for a local newspaper
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
Almost a compliment?
I think you were being nice… Maybe. :-) Boredom, yes… relavent… who knows. I’d love to know we’d at least kick the tires…
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
definitely trying to be nice…except I realized you misspelled “Schafer”…so you have henceforth earned my scorn…just kidding
Its one of the situations where you call up the Twins just to make sure they aren’t offering him for 60cents on the dollar, and since they aren’t we don’t bother following up…
but its something for us to ponder and thus worthwhile
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
A possible package....
Jurrjens, Beachy, Vizcaino, Bethancourt, Barbaro, and Milligan?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
All-in-all...
I like this idea more than most of the blockbuster pitcher (Greinke) that have been bandied about, simply because he is left-handed and that’s something we lack outside of an unproven Minor. I don’t think there’s much of a fit otherwise, but perhaps we could swing a deal with JJ.
It’s a lateral move for both teams, and the Twins would have to see something more valuable to them in JJ (or any additional prospects we offer in the deal) than they see in Liriano. But if both teams find a trade to be a “better fit” scenario, there’s at least a small possibility it could happen.
His agent isn’t Boras, so there’s one assumed positive if we’re looking for someone we can sign to a longer-term deal. Or it may not be, I don’t know anything about Liriano’s agent outside of his name – Greg Genske. Maybe this Genske fellow insists all his clients test FA as well. In short, I should probably stop assuming…
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Hmmmm....
i don’t think is a bad idea after all, I’ve seen him pitch, last year in winter ball he looked like a shorter version of the big unit, he was lights out, i think he had a stretch of 40+ innings without allowing a run, so i really think he could benefit from pitching in the NL and alongside a veteran like Huddy… but still this is just a rumor…
JJ would likely be a tad cheaper in arb than Liriano, which would be an upside for the Twins.
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks...
Another reply with points I didn’t consider… I really appreciate the different perspective. Getting rid of a Boras client would be something that would make me smile inside. I almost dislike Boras as much as I do the Yankees… Some of his players, I like… I almost cried laughing when A-Rod ditched him. So much so, I almost gained respect for him (A-Rod)…
If we gave up JJ… we’d then have two lefties in our line-up creating a very interesting match-up against our arch enemies… Again, thanks for the perspective.
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Boras clients aren’t all bad….generally speaking if you don’t want to resign the guy you can almost garauntee he won’t accept arbitration and you can take the picks (although Soriano accepted)….sure it is tough to extend Boras clients, but its easy to get the compensatory picks.
I don’t think the Braves have ever treated JJ as someone to hold onto past arbitration, so i like that he’s a Boras client.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
I never got the Boras hate.
He is very good at what he does and everyone knows his game. Players who sign with him know what they want to—-top dollar. So do the owners. I have no problem with Boras. He does what he does, he doesn’t hide it, and he does it well.
He’s also not the only agent that gets top dollar for his clients, he just happens to have more of those top dollar clients which gets him in the news a lot more. The Braves need to hire him as a bloody scout, cuz that guy finds talent and finds it first.
by king of games on Feb 11, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
According to the link
The Twins are looking to trade him because they’ve got more MLB ready starting pitchers than they have rotation slots and he’s got a history of arm issues.
That suggests that they wouldn’t be all that interested in swapping him for JJ or guys like Beach or Minor in the same way that other teams would jump at MLB ready pitching prospects.
Seems like we don’t match up all that well with them on a deal.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Precisely why I mentioned...
Pastornicky and Schafer as parts of the package… They wouldn’t have to use Minor or Beach this year… Of course they are ready and it would be silly… but there again…
That’s why I mentioned bringing Texas in on the deal…
M. Young to Minnesota
F. Liriano to Atlanta
Prospects to Texas (shoot, we could do JJ, + prospect to them)
Minnesota may want Young… We could kinda use Liriano.. and there’s no reason Texas wouldn’t want JJ or Minor…
Just my two cents.
by Klemson Krash on Feb 10, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
But why would we send JJ and Prospects the other way for an, at best, slight boost to our rotation over JJ himself?
The only way dealing Minor for FL works financially is if we get someone to take KK’s contract off our hands in the deal.
Add on that JT could be ready to break into the big sometime this season, and that we’ve got two other top flight pitching prospects right behind him, and I don’t see how it makes any sense for us finanfically.
And Schafer has a trade value of roughly zero until he actually gets out on the field and shows that he can hit live pitching again.
The only way a deal for FL works for us, IMO, is if it somehow involves us dealing away Lowe. Maybe a 3 team deal involving Texas or NYY works there, but who knows.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Obviously there’s very little chance of this happening, especially at this point in the year. Just a little speculation for the fun of it.
by king of games on Feb 10, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
It’s pretty apparent, at least to me, that Wren will not move Teheran for nobody, not nohow. My guess is every bit of “tire kicking” the Braves do starts with “who, other than Teheran, would it take?”
What you don’t want to do is get into the “keeping up with the Jonses” race like other teams tend to. Atlanta can’t spend as much as Philadelphia. There’s no sense in trying to match them move for move. Right now Atlanta doesn’t have the same talent, but Atlanta has set them up to have, in three years, the rotation that Philly has now.
Liriano
Living in the upper midwest, I can tell you that local Twins-focused papers have all been told by Twins brass that Liriano will not be moved. They simply didn’t want to go long term THIS year with him, which has led to speculative writing that MLBTR cited that there could be an issue that the Twins may trade him like they did with Santana.
The issue with that speculation is that the Twins have a budget that likely will exceed the Braves for many years with the money increase from Target Field, so resigning Liriano if they want to will be absolutely in their grasp (where it wasn’t with Santana), and if the Twins choose not to pursue a pitcher, I tend to not want my team to pursue him either. They have a good history of developing and evaluating pitching.
Regardless, guys, it would take Teheran/Delgado plus someone with a big bat or huge positional value to get the Twins even to the table, so the speculation of getting Liriano for anything less than 2 of the 3-5 best prospects on your team is pie-in-the-sky thinking.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Talking Chop
Related FanShots on Talking Chop
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Roy Oswalt doesn’t need to save the Rangers, he only needs to provide insurance and depth
- James Loney: Umpires should call pitches from behind mound — and be robots with replay
- Magglio Ordonez set to retire after 15 seasons
- Barry Bonds thinks it will be ‘very sad’ if he doesn’t get into the Hall on his first try
- Chris Johnson’s glove webbing had a Spidey sense at Coors Field — for one play, at least
