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Around SBN: LeBron James Laughs In Kevin Garnett's Face

The Braves Are Going To Be Fine

There's been a lot of movement within the National League East in the last few months. The Marlins either signed or came close to signing every notable free agent and their cousin, the Nationals just acquired a solid starting pitcher in Gio Gonzalez and the Phillies retained Jimmy Rollins. The Mets still suck, but that's a fun story for another time.

The Braves finished 2011 with a record of 89-73, which was fifth best in the league and ninth best in baseball. They'll replace a bad starting pitcher in Derek Lowe with a good one in Julio Teheran or Randall Delgado. Alex Gonzalez and his sub-Francoeurian numbers will be replaced by Tyler Pastornicky, who has a chance to become a very solid regular at shortstop.

A relatively young team, Atlanta does not project to see many of their players hit a decline in production in the near future. There's always a chance of a slump, but other than Chipper Jones and Tim Hudson, most everyone on the roster is younger than 32 or so.

Jason Heyward still has the potential to be a superstar. Freddie Freeman just had a big rookie season and is only going to get better. Brian McCann will be healthy to start the year. Martin Prado will be healthy to start the year. Dan Uggla can still hurt a lot of baseballs, if the second half of 2011 was any indication. We have Michael Bourn for an entire season. We don't have Larry Parrish for an entire season.

Star-divide

Assuming they're healthy, Tommy Hanson and Tim Hudson give Atlanta a 1-2 punch as good as almost anyone. Brandon Beachy was awesome last season and will likely continue to be awesome. Mike Minor is one of the more promising young left-handed pitchers in baseball. Craig Kimbrel is already among the best closers in baseball. You can't hit Jonny Venters, assuming Fredi Gonzalez doesn't kill him first. And the rest of the bullpen is pretty damn great, as well.

There are a lot of good things going on for the Braves right now.

This is not to say there aren't a few things worth fixing before the season begins. But do a few signings and trades by the Nationals and Marlins make us any less of a team? Not at all. Not by a long shot.

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OT

Scott might you know who Rhyno’s Rebels is in the fantasy league?

Shrimp, Steak, Liquor, and Pasta
.

by KINGSLYTUT on Dec 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST reply actions  

I’ll go out on a limb and say it’s Rhyno18.

P.S. My team was so damn bad in that league. Don’t make fun of me.

by Scott Coleman on Dec 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks, I just wanted to know who I was facing.

Shady McCoy and Gronk carried my team all season

Shrimp, Steak, Liquor, and Pasta
.

by KINGSLYTUT on Dec 22, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's not talk about that league....

12-1. Most points scored. Bounced in my first playoff game. Stupid fantasy football.

We'll trade you for Cheryl Tunt. Tome again? Still nothing?

by bpk228480 on Dec 22, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

2nd place here

bounced as well, we’re both playing for 3rd place

"I heard that Tits was "well rounded" and his brother Cans was a "stand out." :D"
by Old Braves' Fan on Aug 18, 2010 3:05 PM PDT

by BravesRaleigh on Dec 23, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Try 2nd most points scored

… and don’t even make the top 6!

by fphjr01 on Dec 23, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

So very much this

With 10 extra wild cards in each league the Braves are bound to make the playoffs in 2012!!

"I wasn’t thinking about it. That’s the worst celebration of all time. I didn’t know what to do. I got lost in the moment." - Brian McCann

by HansonManCrush on Dec 22, 2011 6:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Addition by Subtraction

Larry Parrish, Derek Lowe, Alex Gonzalez, Nate McLouth, Kenshin Kawakami, Scott Linebrink, George Sherrill, Brooks Conrad.

Who will we miss most?

Maybe Sherrill, but the pen is still awesome.

"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first

by bighop on Dec 22, 2011 6:18 PM EST reply actions  

I left Moylan off the list, I figure he’ll be back.

"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first

by bighop on Dec 22, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

That is such a beautiful list to see. Those players almost categorically suck and are all off the team. Addition by Subtraction indeed.

Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.

by GumpBrave on Dec 22, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Never forget

the Proctologist!

We'll trade you for Cheryl Tunt. Tome again? Still nothing?

by bpk228480 on Dec 22, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

good and bad news: Gio Gonzalez to the Nats

bad b/c we have to face him (and the Nats got a bit better), good b/c it was not obtained by any of the potential JJ suitors

by LEastCoastBears on Dec 22, 2011 6:27 PM EST reply actions  

I heard enough "don't worry"

during the middle of last September. Forgive me if I feel anxious.

by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 22, 2011 7:09 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

This

Just saying, “We’ll be fine, this is a playoff team,” doesn’t make it true.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 22, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

With the signing of Gio

…on top of all the shit the Marlins have been up to, I hope Wren really does get a chance to make a legit go at Beltran. I’d feel better knowing we at least made effort and didn’t just roll over on a potentially risky-but-high-impact signing involving more than just chump change.

Prado, Heyward, Freeman, and Uggla all have a decent chance of contributing more in 2012 than they did in 2011. But a decent chance is not something to hedge this bet on. I want Beltran, Frank Wren. I know this team could make the playoffs and even the World Series without him, but I want to get serious. It’s time we show up when Philly and the Cubs and the BoSox make their bids. We’ve been stingy so far in the offseason. Let’s use that saved money for something real.

by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 22, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The only two things we’ve really done this offseason are an addition by subtraction (removing Derek Lowe), and what could very well be a lateral move by going from Alex Gonzalez to Tyler Pastornicky. TP should hit better, a little, but isn’t as good defensively.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 22, 2011 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Beltran's signed

With the Cardinals. 2yr/$26M. No indication that we were even involved deeply. Sigh.

by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 22, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm

I’d have given him that deal happily, but I don’t think it was in the Braves’ plans.

Onto plan…what are we on, now, D?

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 22, 2011 8:42 PM EST up reply actions  

To be honest I don’t even know what plans A-C were or if we even had a plan a-c

by drumzalicious on Dec 22, 2011 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

We don’t need a plan. We’re good enough as we are now to not make any panic moves.

Then again no plan is a plan.

The only big risk right now is Pastornicky, I’d sign Jack Wilson just in case.
Do that and I think 90-92 wins with our current lineup will happen given average luck.

by Broccoman on Dec 23, 2011 8:07 AM EST up reply actions  

yea

but we didn’t have the money

by Braves24 on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

this

We should have traded jj to free up the cash

I <3 Runz

by JHey1212 on Dec 23, 2011 7:18 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

SETH SMITH!

In all honesty, if we’re not getting a ‘big bat’ I’d say we go after Cody Ross for something like 2 years and $8M or so. Smashes lefties and is decent enough against righties that we don’t have to always worry about pinch-hitting if they make a change (which we’d always have to do with Smith vs. a LHP)

by Scott Coleman on Dec 23, 2011 3:49 AM EST up reply actions  

For 13 mil/ year Im glad we werent involved.

"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson

by Doghnut on Dec 23, 2011 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

sign cody ross

He has always been a Braves Killer. Put him in a braves uniform and let him play outfield. A very good player that will excite people.

by jayball on Dec 22, 2011 7:24 PM EST reply actions  

Some thoughts about the money we cleared up.

Kenshin Kawakami is off the books. That saves us $6.67 million. Derek Lowe is gone, that saves us another $5 million. Peter Moylan is gone, he was likely going to get something on the order of $3 million. Alex Gonzalez is gone, and his $2.5 million. Nate McLouth, earning $6.5 million, is also gone-we had to buy him out for $1.25 million. Scott LineBrink is gone, another $2 million gone. George Sherrill is gone, that’s $1.2 million. That’s $25.62 million cut from the payroll.

Brian McCann gets a $2 million raise. Michael Bourn is due a raise since he’s still Arbitration eligible, look for him to get something like $7 million (I’m not sure what the prorated value of his deal last year was). Dan Uggla’s extension kicks in, he’s getting another $4 million. If Jurrjens stays, he probably earns half again what he made last year (if the 40/60/80 pattern holds) and gets a raise of $1.625 million. Martin Prado would also get a raise, something like $1.6 million. Matt Diaz is here for $2 million.

Assuming that we add a few minor leagues making the minimum ($480,000), we should still have about $7.5 million to spend for next year’s roster, at least-probably more since I didn’t figure the prorated costs of Michael Bourn, Jack Wilson, and Matt Diaz on last year’s roster. We have enough bullpen arms that we don’t need to add anyone pricey there-I’m not against adding a veteran (singular), but I wouldn’t spend more than about $1.25 million on the bullpen.

I really hope Frank Wren actually does something with this cash.

My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.

by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 22, 2011 7:29 PM EST reply actions  

Actually...

…not really. DOB had a good comment clearing that stuff up in the comments of his last article. (So good that MLBTR linked to it.) For example, what looks like a $2 million raise to McCann is actually much more because he has maxed out performance bonuses due to his AS selections and Silver Slugger awards. There were several other reasons, too—-for example, Bourn will be as much this year as McLouth was last year. He speculated we had less than $5 million to spend.

by cavebird on Dec 23, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That is really depressing.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 23, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Liking the bullpen and lineup

But I still have major concerns over the rotation. We have one constant in Huddy who will miss some time but everybody else is a realtive unknown.

JJ seems to be basically out of town. Hanson has shoulder problems and has seen a sink in his velocity since his rookie season. Beachy was decent last year but had problems toward the end of the season. That leaves the rookies, who I’m not 100% in riding down the stretch.

I hope they prove me wrong though.

"NLDS or bust" - Bobby Cox

by DopeFalcons on Dec 22, 2011 7:30 PM EST reply actions  

im not sure the sink in velocity

isn’t just him taking a little off to go deeper into games and the season

by willlinn on Dec 22, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

“do a few signings and trades by the Nationals and Marlins make us any less of a team " – the answer may be no but the real takeaway is do the signings /trades make those teams better than us or at least moving in the right direction to overtake us ! The Nationals are definitely becoming a force, and quickly, with three legit starting pitchers and Harper on the horizon – they have posiitioned themselves to be a legit contender – probably in 2013. The Marlins still need some more pieces before you can say they are legit contenders – but you can’t argue the point they are much improved.
The Braves have a ton of young talent – but the young talent is largely un-proven on a long-term basis – albeit “young”. We do have a strong core yet I would like to see some legit pickups – that is not to say – let’s panic and make a quick move but let’s continue to assess and be prepared to make a move when a “superstar” becomes available !
Either way, the NL East is quickly becoming a brutal division and we will have to make adjustments in order to continue to compete on a long-term basis.

by bravesfaninchitown on Dec 22, 2011 7:52 PM EST reply actions  

I was thinking similarly

We had a hard enough time beating mediocre Marlins and Nationals teams the last few years and now they have just gotten better. Here is hoping the Braves can be more consistent in ’12.

"I Farted" - Me, everday

by HeyMikey on Dec 24, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670173

I don’t know how reliable this site is, but I’m about to the point that I don’t care if we get a new OF or not. Prado’s fine with me in LF. Constanza, Parraz and Durango can fight it out in ST. Sutton or Josh Wilson can back up Pastornicky. Wren can have some cash available for half a season of a trade deadline target with a few years of availability.

"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first

by bighop on Dec 22, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

Beltran is gone

Wre’s gotta be creative now

Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)

by ATLandUNC on Dec 22, 2011 8:32 PM EST reply actions  

i don’t think he was ever aiming for Beltran to begin with.

by drumzalicious on Dec 22, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I meant he’s the last of the impact free agents. Now he’s definitely gotta be creative with a trade.

Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)

by ATLandUNC on Dec 22, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

i understand that and what I’m saying is Wren was never looking at the FA market to begin with.

by drumzalicious on Dec 22, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, he must have at least been LOOKING

Else we really ought to find another GM.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 22, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean I’m pretty sure he was aware of who was out there but he also knew from the beginning that he wouldn’t be able to meet the contract demands of most of the Free Agents out there. We are apparently waiting on Cody Ross to drop to 3 mil . . . . . . yep.

by drumzalicious on Dec 22, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

why the love for Beltran?

yes he was a great player, but his health issues alone ought to be enough to say “no thanks”. SF took a chance on him last season and it bit them in the butt. We dont need him as a regular and no way he will want to sit on the bench. Our outfield plays up to its potential and we are fine. Prado goes back to Prado like numbers and the rejuvenation of Heyward is all we need to have a solid outfield. SS is really the area we need to focus on if Pastornicky isn’t ready.

"I Farted" - Me, everday

by HeyMikey on Dec 24, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Bit them in the butt?

He went .323/.369/.551 with them. Sure, he spent 2 weeks on the DL, but at $13 million a season, he’s a good value if he can play 140 games. That’s giving him plenty of off days ans still assuming a DL stint, and he’s still giving you more than your money’s worth. If he plays 80 games like he did in 2009, you’re still not being cheated-he can still help your team-he gave the Mets 3 WAR.

Somewhere between those points might be where he ends up, but if he plays 150 games for the Cardinals while hitting like he did last year, they’ll look brilliant despite having lost Pujols.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 25, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Prince Fielder

Just saying, not the last impact bat.

by Shark Judge on Dec 22, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

FTFY

Just saying, not the last impact bat bag of chips.

"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson

by TBuzz on Dec 23, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

The Braves have a solid team

And yes we had a nice record last year. However 2 of the teams that we face 18 times a year just got significantly better. Marlins now have a decent 1-2-3 in their rotation with Johnson, Sanchez and Buerle. They also have a legitimate lead off man in Reyes and Hanley is bound to have a bounce back season. Also they aren’t even done spending/trading apparently.

The Nats finished 3rd behind us while having down a down year from Werth and no Strasburg. Those two coming back strong and healthy would already make them a better team but adding Gio has put them on the next level. They also aren’t done spending/trading either.

Phillies have stayed the same which is still good. If anything they might be better by having Dominic Brown instead of Ibanez.

Mets . . . . . have a nice bullpen.

The Braves actually have a ton of question marks in my eyes.

How will Jurrjens and Hanson rebound from their injuries?
When will Hudson be ready?
Will Heyward rebound?
Will Prado rebound?
Can Freeman have another good season or will he have a sophomore slump?
How healthy will Chipper be?
Will Bourn play better throughout the entire season than he did with us the 2nd half?
What can we realistically expect from Pastornicky?

Granted every team has question marks It just seems like we have them for about half our offense and half of our starting rotation.

by drumzalicious on Dec 22, 2011 9:00 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, it could be rough if our offense doesn't get a little bit of help

If Josh Johnson is healthy, Strasburg is back, and we’ve got Mark Buerhle and Gio Gonzalez coming into the division. Our guys could really struggle to get hits against division opponents.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 22, 2011 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Let it be written

that Mark Buehrle will not be beaten by the Atlanta Braves throughout the entirety of his tenure with the Florida Marlins, nor in any subsequent game in which he pitches against said Braves. He is the definition of a crafty-lefty, and pitchers such as these will haunt the Braves to their graves and beyond.

by swainzy on Dec 22, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, every team has questions.

There are no guarantees and no absolutes. Statistically modeled projections and predictions based on past performances are far from infallible and certainly not consistently accurate. Injuries, age-related declines, horrible slumps, and inexplicable psychological factors will definitely have unforeseen impacts … And on some teams more so than others. Individual players will seemingly capture lightening in a bottle and have career years. Others will be suddenly and incomprehensibly lousy.

The Braves should be fine. 162 games will, however, answer all questions. And then we will do it all over again.

by fandave on Dec 25, 2011 8:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yep, every team has questions.

There are no guarantees and no absolutes. Statistically modeled projections and predictions based on past performances are far from infallible and certainly not consistently accurate. Injuries, age-related declines, horrible slumps, and inexplicable psychological factors will definitely have unforeseen impacts … And on some teams more so than others. Individual players will seemingly capture lightening in a bottle and have career years. Others will be suddenly and incomprehensibly lousy.

The Braves should be fine. 162 games will, however, answer all questions. And then we will do it all over again.

by fandave on Dec 25, 2011 8:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

at this point i seriously doubt it

to me this looks like it is going to be one of those years when you think the braves make the playoffs because they have good talent and respectable names but the fact is they are going to be SOOOOOOO young. think the rockies of last year. and who wins the division? the diamondbacks out of nowhere. this happens every year and this year i think it will happen to the braves.

by ace16tx on Dec 22, 2011 10:08 PM EST reply actions  

while this off season has been mind numbingly disappointing....

i still think frank is doing the best thing for us. he’s holding out for a good deal and not rushing to sign s***** players like cody ross or over rated injury plagued players like beltran. i would trade prado for a good minor league bat but in the end i think we are better off keeping him anyway. i want to see jurrjens traded but maybe it would be best to let him play a little this season. hopefully he can get off to a good start and we can slide one of the four horsemen into his spot.

do you guys realize the braves haven’t made a FA signing of a starter since lowe three years ago? this has been too damn long.

by ace16tx on Dec 22, 2011 10:17 PM EST reply actions  

Before Lowe...

wasn’t it Brian Jordan that was our biggest “Free Agent” signing??

"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall

by jwrocks on Dec 22, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

There was some guy named Maddux who seemed to do pretty well as a free agent acquisition…

by blwfish on Dec 23, 2011 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Vinny Castilla FTW!!

If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.

by Yakker on Dec 23, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

i've been saying for almost 3 years that the braves are going to make a BIG trade either at the deadline or in the offseason

now i’m honestly wondering if that will ever happen or we end up like oakland and trade away all our good players for minor leaguers and trade them away once they grow up for more minor leaguers

by ace16tx on Dec 22, 2011 10:22 PM EST reply actions  

to compare the Braves with the A's

is just silly. while we trade away players, we also take ON players in trades. our payroll is 87 million. The A’s have a payroll of 67 million. That makes a HUGE difference.

by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

i know

but it just seems like an endless cycle of people on the roster we can’t afford who when they leave the difference gets wiped out in some other guys arbitration (see lowe, kawakami, mclouth)

by ace16tx on Dec 23, 2011 3:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Wrens approach...

sounds sound. New big stick in left. Don’t know who it will be, but I have a feeling he is going to come through. JJ needs to be traded this year before we loose him after next year and get Nothing back. I think Martin would be plenty good in left but I don’t think he is happy in the outfield. I think we’ll be doing him a favor moving him to a team that will put him at the position he earned and is most comfortable with, 2nd. Injuries can hurt any team, all we can do is hope that Hudson and Tommy will be okay. We won 89 games that should have been 95 at worst had we not done the unexplainable in the last month BUT I’m sure we can get a better first half from Uggla, new bat in left, Hayward improves, we replace Lowe with one of the young guns and all that should add up to more wins. Let rock and roll!!!

by AtlantaMelo on Dec 22, 2011 10:25 PM EST reply actions  

i think he'll be traded

but its looking less and less likely that it will happen this year with each trading or signing. see matt latos.
maybe at the deadline

by ace16tx on Dec 22, 2011 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it’s possible we sign JJ long-term when Hudson’s contract is up.

JJ isn’t going to make mega-bucks due to injury history, but he’s damn good and I think that injury history is overrated. He’s worth giving say 5/35 or 5/40 for.

by Broccoman on Dec 23, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Don’t know that he would accept that for his first big contract (remember who his agent is) but if that kind of deal is feasible then it would be a great one for the Braves. Worst case scenario, you have a team-friendly deal that looks really attractive on the trade block.

Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.

by GumpBrave on Dec 23, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it is safe to say

that we don’t really know what Chipper’s production will be, even if healthy. It is easy to assume that he will hit his .280 and 20 or so HR because he is so good and has done it for so long. But he is not Julio Franco in terms of longevity and production in his twilight years, is he? One of these years he is going to flat out suck, through no fault of his own. I really hope it is not this year.

Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.

by walknbalk on Dec 23, 2011 3:27 AM EST reply actions  

Obviously, it would have been nice to acquire Beltran, but it just didn’t happen. I’m sure Wren is trying to hold out for a great package for JJ, otherwise he isn’t going to deal him. Have we forgotten how good JJ is when he is healthy and on his game? Honestly during the first half of the year(before he got hurt) this guy was a top 3 SP in the National League. Obviously, I realize everyone is concerned about he may not hold up, and you could be right, but maybe he does hold up, it’s a situation where you don’t just dump the guy for an ok OF, and a prospect that may or may not do anything in the majors. JJ is an asset to us, good young SP is not something that you want to run out of town and take whatever offer, you take an offer that makes sense, nothing that I have seen makes sense in a trade.

Obviously, you can say, well if he gets hurt this year, his trade value is zero, maybe so, but if he stays healthy and pitches great like he is capable of, then we look damn idiots for taking a subpar package. It goes both ways, I’d personally take my chances with JJ.

Prado is a good hitter, I have constantly seen people type trade him and/or trade JJ for a player that is a better LF. Who is better that we could have traded for and that is available and that is a clearly better player than Prado? I wouldn’t mind having Beltran, but he signed with the Cards. The thing is, who are you going to trade JJ for that is clearly a better upgrade LF, and then if you can find someone that can play corner OF, then you need to match up good with the team(s) and hope they want JJ, and even then, you would probably have to deal more, could possibly want Teheran, Viz, Minor, or Delgado(one of the big 4) as well as JJ. If you are going to trade all of that, that LF better be a hell of a hitter, and honestly I don’t know of any that are available, without them making some hell of a salary right now, and isn’t worth it. Prado had a serious staph infection, I don’t know if he ever really rebounded from it during the 2011 season(I don’t think he did). The guy has proven that he can hit and can play. Everyone is entitled to have a bad year, hell most of the hitters had down years, Prado is a very good hitter.

At SS, who were we going to sign? Reyes, ya right, I wouldn’t want that guy anyway with his bloated salary and injury history. It’s nice to rosterbate about trading for Andrus, or Stephen Drew or someone like that, but who knows what those teams would want. It’s easy to say trade Rangers JJ and something else for Andrus, but problem is, why trade a young SS that can play great defense, pretty good offense from the SS position, and that has 4 more years left of team control? Sure they have a stud SS prospect, but that isn’t any reason to trade an established SS in the majors that is very young, just cause they have a prospect that may or may not even do anything in the majors.

Also keep in mind, maybe Wren didn’t want to go after Beltan or others, because he wants to have that money available to try to extend Bourn. If we would have given Beltran what he got from the Cards, likely we would then have ZERO chance to even hope to keep Bourn after the 2012 season. Even though Beltran would have 1 more year left, still not easy just dealing him somewhere(especially if he gets hurt a lot in 2012), Beltran salary with it being $10+ mil, be pretty much impossible to keep Bourn, unless Braves make other big moves in clearing space. Maybe, just maybe, this was a way to give us some hope in keeping Bourn. I don’t know about anyone else, but I would rather us extend Bourn after the 2012 season, than signing Beltran now. I could be wayyyyy off on this, and if so then oh well, but this is what I believe. Again, it’s no guarantee we can even extend Bourn, but I think the no FA moves this off-season gives us reason to at least hope we can extend Bourn.

We have to look at the big picture, and I know the Braves Front Office is doing this. Sure they would love to have gotten Beltran and prolly others, and already made trades, but nothing has worked out. We really do have a good team here, obviously there could be disastrous things that could happen, but it could for other teams as well. There is no guarantees in baseball, that’s why you “PLAY THE GAMES”, otherwise I think most would have given the Phillies the 2011 WS trophy. We have good players in Braves jerseys, Wren is trying to do what he can with limited money available(after arby guys get increases). I know it’s only human nature to be like, come on now, the entire NL East has gotten better but US, well, you just can’t think that way, otherwise you risk signing a FA to a bad deal, and/or not making a sensible trade. I still give Wren an A+ for this off-season, I really believe he is making the right decisions(sometimes no moves is the right decision).

I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT

by rockybull on Dec 23, 2011 6:14 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Excellent

I didn’t read anything that didn’t make sense.

Everybody wants players with great stats to fill the potential spots we can upgrade. We obviously don’t have the money for the Reyes’ and Beltrans’ out there. I posted a link a ways up in the thread about the MiLB FA’s we signed, Wren covered his bases in Nov in case no trades take place. He signed 2 MI guys that can compete for backup SS, Sutton and Josh Wilson. He also signed a few OF’s that could get a shot. Parraz and Durango in particular. If a trade happens, those guys play in Gwinnett. Pretty smart move signing those guys, Wren doesn’t HAVE to make a trade. But he can if it falls in his lap.

“sometimes no moves is the right decision”…I think you hit the nail on the head.

"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first

by bighop on Dec 23, 2011 7:09 AM EST up reply actions  

The next few years given the growth of the baby pitchers, and the guys in our system who will fill voids, we’re going to get better, at a reasonable cost.

The one possible area that will need help is LF/CF/3B in future, depending on if Prado stays (he’d fill 3B hole).

by Broccoman on Dec 23, 2011 8:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Red Sox

need starting pitching and just missed out on Gio.

If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.

by Yakker on Dec 23, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

The NL East is going to be brutal for a while and there is nothing we can do about that.

We had an 89 win team last year. And without any major additions, we’ll probably be better next year. The Phillies haven’t really added significantly this offseason, and, honestly, they didn’t need to, either.

The fear is that the Marlins and especially the Nationals, have improved. But there was nothing we could do about that. Outside of Reyes, who we could never afford, most of the guys they picked up to improve (Buerhle, Gio Gonzalez, Heath Bell, etc.) would not have significantly improved the Braves. They are just catching up which is easier for them to do because they had more places where they could improve. The Nats, especially, have done it right. They had a few horrible teams that gave them very high draft choices and they spent the money and made the right picks. Harper will be ready soon. If Rendon takes to second, he’ll be ready soon (moving Espinosa to short and Desmond out of DC), the bat is probably going to be ready before the end of the year. The Nats also have money. If I had to guess, I would guess that they end up signing Fielder. They have the money and they know they are close. The Marlins—-who knows? They could put together a great team or collapse and sell everyone off. That is their M.O. after all. And while the Mets are going to be bad for several years, if they get new ownership, they could run a $170 million payroll and get competitive in a hurry.

So where does that leave us? Still good, just in a tough, tough division. We’re like the Rays with more money. We have the Phillies with money who have been smart. We have the Nats with money who are about to see their good moves pay off. But that doesn’t mean we don’t have a good shot. We have a great young core with Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Teheran, Kimbrel, Venters, etc. We’re not going anywhere. We just won’t be able to count on a playoff spot going into the season—-nobody in the NL East will be able to, just too many good teams. I can see a lot of one game wild card playoffs between NL East teams in the near future.

by cavebird on Dec 23, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

As for making additions...

…there really haven’t been any impact moves to make. Beltran would have been an upgrade, but signing him costs us 70-80 games a year of Prado, and that isn’t that big of an upgrade. The only upgrade we really could have made is at SS, and honestly, there weren’t any upgrades in our price range. Yes, we have to hope for improvement from our young players. But they are good and should improve. No guarantees in the NL East for a while.

by cavebird on Dec 23, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I just feel like

After having the 23rd ranked offense last year (according to wOBA) the Braves would try to do something about that so we might not experience another late season collapse.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 23, 2011 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

The problem was poor play by guys were aren't going to replace.

McCann was bad after he returned from the injury. Heyward was lost at the plate most of the year. Bourn has a normal slump at the end. AGonz, well, he’s gone, and he never could hit. Prado struggled badly after returning from an injury. Uggla took the fist half of the season off. We aren’t replacing Heyward, Bourn, McCann, Freeman, Uggla, Chipper. Not much left to upgrade.

by cavebird on Dec 23, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why

It’s always been my idea to add a left fielder with a solid bat and make Prado a super utility who gets something like 120 starts.

And it was always something of a hope, if not an expectation, that the Braves would add a starting shortstop rather than rely on our eighth or ninth best prospect to start. It’s asking a lot from a guy who was never an elite prospect.

Braves will be fine. I'm not worried.

by Bronn on Sep 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT

by Bronn on Dec 23, 2011 1:39 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Personal letter to the fans.

I have watched every game for years and I know without our pitching staff pitching us out of 2 run games all of the time, we would have a losing season. I remember a personal letter written to the fans promising improvements this offseason. none have been made and nothing is written in stone that any of these rookies will perform as well as lowe would have so the addition by subtraction rule is BS. we lost a great defensive SS as well for a rookie with no experience above A ball c’mon. I think the martin is the 3rd or 4th best 2B in the nl offensively so if you can’t trade him and the cy young leader for adam jones, you are a moron and a horrible negotiator. Sorry but when you hand write fans to apologize about a horrible offense that needed to be fixed and a collapse like that, you do something about it.

by cadwell on Dec 23, 2011 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

Let's see here.

The rookies can’t do much worse than Lowe did last year, and if one emulates Lowe’s numbers, he’ll get sent down and we’ll try another one. We did lose a good defensive SS; he just couldn’t hit a lick. If we did trade Prado and Jurrjens for Adam Jones we are horrible negotiators, morons, and we would have made our team worse. And if the only thing you can do about your offense is make it worse, I think you shouldn’t do anything, but hey the writing of a personal letter to the fans means we have to do stupid knee jerk reactions, right?

by cavebird on Dec 23, 2011 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

A few things:

First, improvements were promised, but that does not mean a flashy FA acquisition.

Second, addition through subtraction is not BS, but in fact makes a lot of sense in the short and long term. In the short term, we can maybe expect one of the rookies to do at least as well as Lowe. I think they will do better, but it is not a certainty. But in the short term you at least take away a GB oriented pitcher which helps what is going to be lackluster IF defense. In the long term you also give these rookies experience. And we can all agree (I hope) that Teheran or Delgado’s ceiling is lightyears away from what Lowe provided last year. By getting them experience you move closer to that goal of realizing their ceiling, which for each is quite high.

Third, while Pastornicky is a rookie he definitely has experience above A ball. In fact, last year he logged 117 games at AA and AAA, so it isn’t like we just pulled him out of nowhere. But I’d much rather watch a rookie try to figure it out at the big leagues as do poorly than watching Alex Gonzalez make shitty batting look like an artform on a nightly basis. At least there is an element of surprise and hope, rather than the certainty that was the Alex Gonzalez DP/fly out/strike out.

Fourth, while I agree that a major improvement was possible, and might have even been sexy to a fanbase who watched an epic, mind-numbing collapse, you can’t go to the negotiating table needing to do a deal. This weakens your position to make a beneficial deal signficantly. I’d much rather FW wait for the right deal than force a deal to cause waves that might cost us too much because we were negotiating with desperation.

The point is, just wait. This team has a whole lot of talent. There was a lot of bad play by good players last year that made our offense so lackluster. If these players come back and play to their talent level then we will be much improved on offense, and our pitching is at least going to be as good (likely better.)

Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.

by GumpBrave on Dec 23, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

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