Bowman: Braves to have $40+ million to spend next year?!?!
by ace16tx on Dec 21, 2011 1:17 AM EST
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PrintI don't want to go totally overboard with this. All I could think of is the possibility of a typo. Then I googled it and Bowman said the same thing two weeks ago, so it isn't a typo.
But how is this possible? So i looked up the Braves contracts and found that this figure may indeed be a little too good to be true. I can only assume that he is getting this from:
Chipper Retiring ($7 million)
Hudson's option being declined ($8 million)
Bourn hitting free agency (i have no idea but i'm guessing like $7 million)
Lowe will be off the books ($5 million)
Hinske gone ($1.5 million)
Diaz gone ($2 .1 million)
Ross gone ($1.625)
He must also be assuming that Prado and Jurrjens get dealt. This comes out to... $40+ million.
But don't too excited. We still need guys to take their places. That and the bitch that is arbitration for the other guys will really cut into that. And what if Chipper doesn't retire? I can honestly say that I could see Larry telling the Braves to pick up his option. And what about Huddy? What if they want to keep him to play veteran? McCann is due for a big extension.
I started writing this piece really excited but now I'm depressed again. The Braves will have SOME money, they might be able to have ONE substantial signing, but after that it's back to their penny pinching ways. Just don't buy into this whole $40 million to spend thing.
Thoughts?
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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That would actually be $10M from Lowe, Indians are only covering $5M
Still, I’d imagine it being closer to $20-25M next year given some salary increases (right?)
"My parents do a lot of things behind the scenes that go unnoticed"- Cam Newton, Heisman acceptance speech.
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by TurnerTheBurner on Dec 21, 2011 2:36 AM EST reply actions
this is my take:
Chipper Jones option is a vesting option, meaning that he has to do this in order for it to be picked up:
- 2013 option guaranteed at $9M with:
* 123 games in 2012, or
* average of 127 games in 2011-12
- 2013 option price increases by $1M each for:
* 128, 133, 138, 140 games in 2012, or
* averages of 132, 137, 138, 140 games in 2011-12
If Tim Hudson continues to pitch good in 2012, no reason not to bring him back, he has a option for 2013 at $9 mil, and if he pitches good and shows he is healthy, no reason to not pick it up, even with the pitching that we have, a vet like Hudson as our starter is invaluable to this team.
Bourn likely hits Free Agency, especially with Boras as his agent, but I would give 4-5 years with a PO or vesting option in there if he would take it. I really really love what Bourn brings to the team with his offense and defense, and I think he would be fine for the duration of that contract. If you can sign him to 9-11 mil per year for 4-5 years, to me that is a no brainer. I’m sure some teams would offer more years, but my point is if you could get him at 4-5 years and 9-11 mil per, I think you have to jump on that deal.
Thankfully Lowe is gone, and like turnertheburner said, it would be 10 mil right there, because Indians are covering only $5 mil this year.
Ross is very valuable to this team, I want this guy back, I don’t care if we have to sign him to 2 years: $2 mil per year, the guy is worth it. Please don’t bring back the Corky Miller days when he was our backup Catcher, ugghhh.
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
Who would you rather have Hudson or JJ?
To me the choice is obvious, I’d rather keep JJ or Hanson then Hudson. In a way, I think we can keep JJ and Hanson if we let Hudson go after next year. I’d want to keep Hudson, I really appreciate what he’s done, he’s been great for us, but it’s finanaces.
I’d personally take the SP that had a 2.7 and 3.7 WAR seasons in 2010 and 2011 over the one that had a 1.2 and 1.5 WAR seasons in 2010 and 2011. Obviously, Jurrjens getting hurt ended up hurting his WAR, but that is kinda the point in why I would choose Hudson over JJ. Basically Hudson prolly doesn’t have many years left in the majors. Even if we keep JJ until he is a FA, I don’t see us signing him to a deal, considering his injuries and his agent being Boras. As long as Hudson shows that he is healthy during the 2012 season and performing, then I would pick up that option, deal JJ for prospects(or a MLB need, whatever best we can get) and go from there. Either way, I don’t see either with us much longer, possibly neither after the 2013 season.
Maybe JJ can show that he can stay healthy and we end up keeping him until he is a FA, but we’ll have to see. As long as we have one in our rotation for 2012 and 2013, I think it would be fine.
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
Chipper is alittle more comlicated
as i said in a different post
Chipper is alittle more complicated. He’ll earn $14M this season with his deferred signing bonus. If we get what is expected of Chip this year, it’s a club option for 2013 at only $7. This option becomes guaranteed at $9 with 123 games this season or an avg. of 127 games between 2011-12. (he’ll need to play 2 more games than last season)
Also, the option (in this case would be $9) will increase by $1M each for 128, 133,138,140 games in 2012, or 2 year averages which would be about the same with his 126 in 2011. So if Chip manages 133 games this season his option for 2013 will be at $12M (with the signing bonus) At that rate, which would also mean an increase of games played, I think Chip plays in 2013. If it’s at $7, this time meaning a decrease in games, I say he reties.
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
IF
Chipper retires….$14M
Hudson’s option not picked up… $9M
Bourn leaves via FA….~$7M
Lowe’s contract….$10
Hinske’s contract….$1.5M
Diaz contract….$2M
Total = ~$43.5M
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Here’s the problem
McCann’s contract will eat up at least 15mil of that
Prado/JJ/Hanson arb raises another 12mil roughly
Heyward will be Arb 1- that could be 3-4mil
We’re likely only going to have about 8-10mil of that to spend.
I don't get your math.
McCann will be making $8.5 M in 2012, and his club option for 2013 is $12 M. That’s only $3.5 million. Hanson will have a significant arb raise, as well Heyward. Prado and JJ are not anywhere near certain to still be here—-especially JJ.
You beat me to it.
I was in the middle of typing just the same thing. He did mention Heyward’s arb raise, but if Hanson is healthy and has a big 2012 then he could make $4-5M in 2013. I don’t expect Prado or Jurrjens to be here come 2013, but for the sake of argument let’s assume one of them stays for a $6M increase overall. By my estimates, that leaves as much as $28-30M if neither Chipper nor Hudson return, or $9-11M if both return (I’m expecting Chipper’s option to vest at $10M with 128 games played in 2012).
Chipper might retire regardless whether his option vests
Which means he’ll leave that money on the table. I think this is Chipper’s last year…which is partially why I’m miffed at the Braves dragging their feet to make a move. I want them to be a playoff team, maybe even a serious contender, for the last year that Chipper Jones plays baseball.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
But to help us into playoff contention...
…the move has to be a good move, and I haven’t heard anyone offering us a good deal, just a bunch of crap.
I don't want the Braves to make a crappy move
I want them to make a good solid deal. But they haven’t even signed a single free agent, except for guys like Josh Wilson and Drew Sutton.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I don't think Hanson is either (a certainty to be here)
with Hudson, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, Teheran, and maybe Vizcaino or another, we could easily sell high on him next year for a massive haul. Depends on how confident we are in the other guys, and if we’ve found a good deal for Jurrjens, but I don’t think Hanson is anywhere near a sure thing on the 2013 roster.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 21, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
$13 million if Chipper retires
He made 14 last year, will make 13 this year (at least, per Cot’s, via baseball-reference.com)
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
This is the worst kind of rosterbation...
It hurts my head and I can’t handle thinking about raises here, FAs there, retirements too and what to do w/ players who have bolstered our team through the tough years… I just don’t like it and I can’t think of a way to put an intelligent response to this so you get my mindless babble. :-)
At the end of the day, I would rather focus on getting ready for this year. It’s going to be heart breaking having to replace Chipper on a permanent basis… and not having Huddy in the rotation doesn’t help me feel better. :(:(
2012 World Series or BUST! The old man deserves it!
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
Another comment...
Why in the world did you post this as a FanShot and FanPost!?
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
haha
because the fan shot was when i first heard what he said
the post was after i looked at the books
so... you could probably get rid of the FanShot...
Just sayin… doesn’t need to be on both sides. I like the fact you added your thoughts and it fits fine here as a post but it makes me want to kick small puppies when I see it on top of both forums… I don’t know why…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no, the dreaded double frowny-face. The antithesis of:
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 21, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
darn...
can’t see the pic here at work… but i’m sure it’s priceless… or somehow condescending… either way.. :-D yay for “Friday” (I’m off the next 2 days)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Can we bring this up again in September of next year?
There are too many things that can change between now and next off-season. It’s like talking about what Christmas presents you are going to get your family for Christmas 2012. Who cares?
by JohnRocker4CyYoung on Dec 21, 2011 8:54 AM EST reply actions
I think we should close this thread
by collectively laughing at the Phillies for having no money to spend in 2013.
+1
Hahaha…lol…lmfao…(flips bird towards the phanatic)
by dcbravesfn on Dec 21, 2011 1:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1 for the finger to the Phanatic.
I heard that 2012 is the Phanatic’s last year of arbitration. They may not have any money to resign him in 2013 to an extended contract. Do you think he signs with the Marlins? I wonder if Billy the Marlin will become the new Philly mascot…….
"Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you are getting the best possible information."
Bowman's article was whack!
Aside from the $40 million he mentions, he says that the Braves may have a shot at Josh Hamilton! Are you fucking kidding me? No way the Braves can outbid Texas, not to mention all the other teams that are going to be drooling over him.
Okay, here's the lowdown for 2013
A few assumptions (debate as you please)
a) Chipper Jones retires
b) Braves exercise $9 million team option on Tim Hudson
c) Braves exercise option on Brian McCann (worth $12 million)
d) Michael Bourn is not extended
Here is what I’m fairly sure about, assuming no trades:
Dan Uggla: $13 million
Brian McCann: $12 million
Tim Hudson: $9 million
Martin Prado: About $6 million (3rd Arb year, he just made $3.1 in first Arb year)
Jair Jurrjens: about $6.5 million (3rd Arb year, just made $3.25 in first arb year)
Eric O’Flaherty: about $2 million (3rd Arb year)
Craig Kimbrel: about $0.45 million (pre Arb)
Brandon Beachy: about $0.45 million (pre Arb)
Freddie Freeman: about $0.45 million (pre Arb)
Julio Teheran: about $0.45 million (pre Arb)
Randall Delgado: about $0.45 million (pre Arb)
Tyler Pastornicky: about $0.45 million (pre Arb)
That’s $51.2 million, about 40 million shy of where the Braves’ payroll has hovered over the past few years.
In addition, we have projected raises for the following:
Jason Heyward, first arbitration year
Jonny Venters, first arbitration year
Tommy Hanson, first arbitration year
Kris Medlen, first arbitration year
Cristhian Martinez, first arbitration year
This is all guesswork, but:
Jason Heyward, $4.5 million (comparable to Justin Upton’s first arb year)
Tommy Hanson, $3.75 million (Lot of guesswork, but it amounts to this: he’s awesome, but he’s been hurt. Guys with injury concerns get less. Cole Hamels got $4.35 million, Verlander got $3.675, Matt Cain got $3.9 million, Felix Hernandez got $3.8 million. I put Tommy right in the middle of that, and adjusted upward slightly)
Jonny Venters: $1.25 million (guesswork again, but NOT being a Closer tends to matter)
Kris Medlen: $1.25 million (guessing he gets some added value from his ability to be a starter, negated by his injury history)
Cristhian Martinez: $0.9 million (What EOF made last year)
That puts the total at $62.85 million. Here, then, is the roster:
C: Brian McCann
1B: Freddie Freeman
2B: Dan Uggla
SS: Tyler Pastornicky
3B: Martin Prado
LF:
CF:
RF: Jason
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Agh! Hit post early when working on a big post.
Here’s the roster:
C: Brian McCann
1B: Freddie Freeman
2B: Dan Uggla
SS: Tyler Pastornicky
3B: Martin Prado
LF:
CF:
RF: Jason Heyward
BN: (expect, obviously, some minor leaguers here)
SP: Jair Jurrjens
SP: Tim Hudson
SP: Tommy Hanson
SP: Julio Teheran
SP: Randall Delgado
CL: Craig Kimbrel
SU: Jonny Venters
SU: Eric O’Flaherty
RP: Kris Medlen
RP: Cristhian Martinez
RP:
RP:
RP:
So we need a starting left fielder, a starting center fielder, 5 bench players, and three relief pitchers. We’d have about $30 million to spend. Obviously, some of these would end up being minor league players-you can imagine we might use Jose Constanza, Arodys Vizcaino, J.C. Boscan, maybe some guys like Drew Sutton, J.J Hoover, Cory Gearrin, maybe even Mycal Jones. But I didn’t want to include them because that’s projecting quite a lot, and some guys could definitely get traded.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I did forget Minor
But then, I guess it really doesn’t matter as far as 2013 salary. Beachy, Teheran, Delgado, Minor-pick two, and they’re both making the league minimum, and anyone who gets called up to make spot starts is also making the league minimum.
Surely we’re going to trade one of these guys at some point, right?
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Do we have to?
Imagine a rotation of completely cost controlled starters who are all above average… We could save a mega ton there alone… Cheapest but best rotation in the majors!?!? It could happen.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
that day is coming
but maybe not before 2014
Trade Jurrjens first is the route I take
as much as I love him, the financials and knee issues dictate doing all we can to snag that desired near-ready CF or 3B prospect for him. Then for 2013 the decision comes from those cheap young arms, as either a pick 3 or pick 4, with pick 4 meaning we deal Hanson.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
League Minimum for 2012 is $480,000, probably hits half a mil by 2013
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Hmm, didn't catch that
A bigger increase than expected, since it had been creeping up by about $10k per year. Okay so just add another $300k or so to my totals.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
a few things
I think Jurrjens will be gone.
I also highly doubt Heyward gets that much unless he has a monster season.
Other than that I’d think that we still might not do anything serious next offseason. Strange feeling.
by drumzalicious on Dec 21, 2011 2:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Eh, I actually feel pretty good about the prediction for Heyward
Partly, I think Heyward WILL have a big year. At least, something along the lines of 22ish homers, and a .380ish OBP with a .490ish SLG.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I would love for him to have a big year and become a mega player. I think for him to get that much his 1st time he’d need to miss no time with an injury and be top 10 for outfielders
by drumzalicious on Dec 21, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I see you said 30 mil
with 63 mil being your figure. Do we not think the Braves budget will have inflated to 100mil by 2013? Especially when we make the playoffs this year and are looking brighter the next. JJ will also be gone, so I’d love to think we have 40 mil to play with.
I’d love to see 12 go to Beltran,
the rest to relievers and role players
and we bring up 3B and CF prospects we got for trading Prado and JJ
Simmons or Pastornicky play SS
And the rest of the money goes to locking up McCann and Hanson long term.
We could even make a move and sign Freeman early longterm to a real team friendly contract.
bleh
if we have 40 mil I’d aim higher than Beltran.
by drumzalicious on Dec 21, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
No, I don't think the payroll is going to increase
Because it hasn’t increased at all in about 10 years.
I’m just taking this off of baseball-reference.com, so there might be some differences. Signing bonuses, insurance payouts for injured players, deferred payments, these probably won’t be perfect. Still, you should see a trend, here.
2001: $91,936,166
2002: $93,470,367
2003: $106,243,667
2004: $90,182,500
2005: $86,457,302
2006: $90,156,876
2007: $87,290,833
2008: $102,365,683
2009: $96,726,166
2010: $84,423,666
2011: $87,002,692
So no, I wouldn’t expect us to balloon up to $100 million. We’re going to hover around that $95 million area where we’ve been for ten seasons. We haven’t increased payroll at all since Liberty Media took over the team-at least, not for more than a 1 year stretch, which has been immediately followed by spending less the next season.
Unless you plan on buying the team, don’t predict any increase in Braves’ payroll.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
*Blind rosterbation optimism*
Well payroll ballooned in ’03 and ’08, so by the time ’13 comes around…
Rosterbation does make you blind
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
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