Jurrjens and Prado for Adam Jones - Final 2011 Rosterbation Thread, NotTrades edition
by cthabeerman on Dec 14, 2011 5:38 PM EST
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PrintSo, we all know that the Braves have been incredibly quiet on the FA/Trade front, despite a flurry of Winter Meetings rumors concerning the one and only Marteen Pray-do and Jair Jurrjens.
In this bi-monthly episode, let's rosterbate ourselves giddy with the hope of a more interesting 2012 Hot Stove season for the Braves. Sure, this thread won't quite make it to NYE, but we'll probably be sloggin' dranks and making fools of ourselves during those final days of December, anyway.
Since very little of our rosterbatory speculation ever comes to fruition, I've dubbed this the NotTrades edition, with a hat tip to NotGraphs. Let's have a little fun with this one...
Here's to an excellent holiday season and New Year for all!!
-C
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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I got to say
I am not a fan of the Adam Jones Trade. Also, have we debated to death the idea of possibly taking Jimmy Rollins? I mean there is a “mystery” team out there. I heard some talk that it could be the nationals, but that seems unlikely with a promising rookie/sophomore occupying the post currently. Don’t get me wrong, I understand we all would like to see the Pastor get in the Bigs and eat people alive, but Rollins provides us with a great SS for a couple of years, and if he gets injured (survey says likely) that clears the road for Pastor. So at best we get Rollins for a couple years playing like he should be, at worst he gets hurt and TP comes to the rescue.
In other news, I think I am officially over the Left Field Bat thing. Aint no one gonna give us want Prado does and thats basically it. I’ll trade anyone on our roster if it makes us better, trading Prado to anyone I have read proposed so far seems to be lacking any substantive gain.
I got to say
I am not a fan of the Adam Jones Not Trade. Also, if only Frank Wren had adequate fortitude (testosterone levels), he would have already thrown in an extra bag of used balls and gotten the Big Bat done.
Okay, outfield free agents.
We should be talking to Carlos Beltran, and offering him something like 2 years, $18 million. It might not be enough, but the way that interest in him seems to be drying up, it might be a good start. I wouldn’t overpay for someone with his health risks, but if he DOES stay healthy, he’s going to give you a lot of surplus value for the money. He can still play decent defense in the corners, and he’s a good hitter, and we can rotate him with Prado and keep them both fresh.
Plan B: J.D Drew. He’s drawing almost no interest. At his age, and after a disastrous year last year, he doesn’t seem to drawing a ton of interest. But he’s always been a good defensive player in RF. He’s killed righties in his career, so we could reasonably platoon him and get good value out of him. I don’t think he’s done. 2 years, $7 million should be more than enough to get it done, and I bet he jumps on it because it includes a second year. I bet we could even go cheaper than that.
I also hope we’re looking at Ryan Theriot. At this point, it seems like the Braves are resigned to using Pastornicky, but they should use a guy like Theriot at least through April, to make sure Pastornicky is truly ready to go before we hand him the reins. It would be a real shame if he gets promoted, struggles, then ends up benched with the “utility” label for the rest of his time with the organization. As of yesterday, he’s only 22 years old, and I really want to see him realize a good chance to succeed.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
King?
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Glad someone does
I haven’t seen any rumors linked to him. He’s good enough that he could play more than as a platoon guy-even if he struggles against lefties, his defense is good enough that he’s going to hurt you with the odd start against left handed pitching. He could reasonably start 100 games, and Prado could get 60 starts there, 30-40 at third base, and 20ish at first or second, so you get plenty of mileage out of him that way.
His walk rate is still very good, his strikeout rate isn’t bad. He just needs a bit of a recovery in BABIP and power, and he could be very effective. If not, he really can’t cost that much.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I really like Beltran
I trust his ability to produce much more than Drew’s, even if we would probably have to overpay a bit to get Beltran. He’s a proven and to this point still disaster-free bat that could hit 6th and give Uggla and B-Mac a big-name protector, even if he’s not necessary that much better hitter than Freeman or Heyward. He’s adequate in LF and hits righties and lefties….I like it.
by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 14, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
I figure 2 years, $18 million should get you in the door.
Drew is a decent plan B if it gets too expensive.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I think Beltran would have signed already...
…if 2 years $18 M would get it done. As for Drew, he’s not as good as Prado at this point in his career, so I don’t know why we would have him play over Prado. As a fourth OF/guy who plays when Prado has to play INF, he makes a lot of sense.
I disagree
I think they can make a good L/R platoon. No one has ever questioned that Drew’s defense is very solid, and one bad year doesn’t mean he’s “done.” Plus, there’s the odd chance he rebounds to post a .370 wOBA. At worst, if he’s healthy, I bet he can bounce back to his 2010 numbers.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
We have Hinske/Diaz for that. already. If we get a part-time OF, I’d want one that hits lefties well so we can cut Diaz. (I like Diaz, but I think he’s done)
J.D. Drew is much, much better than Eric Hinske
Hinske hits pretty well against right handed pitching, but Drew has demolished it in his career. One rough year doesn’t mean he’s done, as I said. I’d say that worst case scenario, he’s still a 20% better hitter against righties than Hinske is next year. Best case, Drew blows him away.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Depends on his health
as injury prone as Drew has been his entire career, his body may have finally given out on him. I’d still like him as a cheap 4th OF, but I wouldn’t be sure he ever bounces back, hence the cheap part and only as a 4th OF.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Drew
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Whoops
If healthy, Drew is a great call. At $7M/2, the 2nd year is probably free for the Braves. He can take the heavy side of the platoon with Diaz. Drew’s still a good fielder, and while his bat speed is dropping, he won’t embarass himself if he’s used correctly.
He’s probably got one more year at his current 350ish wOBA level before trending down again. He’s been in the organization before, and he is a local boy.
I would give him a short time to hit LHPs (and v.v. for Diaz), but I’m not sanguine on his prospects of doing so.
Perfect fit, if he checks out medically.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
problem is
that Drew is a LH hitter and Beltran’s pretty much a LH hitter now, too.
we desperately need some more pop from the right side.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 15, 2011 3:49 AM EST up reply actions
I really like the idea of Beltran, but does the team have $10MM to spend in Free Agency?
His .400 OBP would look real purty at the top of the lineup with Bourn and Chipper. And if we could keep Martin somehow in this season, I think we could get him in 90-100 games. Beltran would probably need 1 day off every 2 weeks, you could shift Beltran over to RF against a tough lefty and we know Chipper gets Sundays off. Add in inevitable DL stints, PHing for JeyHey against lefties, maybe giving FF the occasional day off and Martin would still be of service.
Our getaway Sunday lineup might be Bourn, Prado, Beltran, Uggla, FF, Ross, Heyward, SS That’s not awful.
I just don’t know if they have $10MM laying around.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
that’s the thing, only Wren and the Braves FO knows if he has $10 mil laying around. I’m pretty sure one of Prado/JJ would have to be traded, especially since we need a backup SS that will likely cost 1.5-2.5 mil. As long as we can get Beltran for 2 years with maybe a 3rd that is a vesting option with so many AB’s during the 2nd year and if it’s around $9-11 mil per, I think it would be a great investment for Wren.
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
Yeah, Good point. I’m guessing that JJ gets traded for prospects in that scenario and we go with a Huddy, Hanson, Beachy, Minor, JT/Delgado/Medlan/Vizzy rotation. So that’d be around a net of $7-8MM that we’d have to allot to Beltran and SS.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
Nice try, Billy
We’re not giving you a mulligan on the Hudson deal.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
seriously?
Vizcaino has a ton of upside but hasn’t been able to stay healthy throughout a full season as a starter. Some project him as a reliever for that very reason.
Gilmartin projects as a serviceable BOR starter.
Lipka is . . . Lipka.
We’d still have a ton of pitching prospects even with those two gone.
I’d love a rotation of
Hudson
Gio
Hanson
Beachy
Minor
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Well
I’m being silly to make a point, but yeah, I think Beane would win that deal. I’m not a huge fan of Gio’s. His walks are an issue, and he’s not consistent. He’s about to hit arb and start getting pricey because of his ERA. I’d much rather slot JT/Medlen/Random in there than give up on Viz.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
not really giving up on him
just because we trade him. More like cashing in on his value after a pretty good season. If you look at all of his other stats you see that ERA isn’t the only reason he is getting so much attention. The only thing really negative about his stats is his BB%. Other than that his stats look great and his FIP is actually lower away from the Coliseum. What I love is the .230 BAA.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps the view on Gio is tied to whether you think his sub-300 BABIP is sustainable? I don’t think so.
He’ll obviously get a bump coming to the NL, which should offset the loss from leaving the Coliseum (and Safeco, and the Ed, etc.). But if we want an 8K, 4BB guy, why not just have gotten in on Jonathan Sanchez??
Plus, really, I think the last thing we need is another arb-eligible arm.
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
ummmm
Some project him as a reliever for that very reason.
‘cause they don’t know what they’re talking about? The FO has stated that Viz is still a starter.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 15, 2011 3:50 AM EST up reply actions
sorry
The FO has stated that Viz is still a starter.
have inferred. sorry.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 15, 2011 3:51 AM EST up reply actions
I would love to get Gio
we won’t be trading for pitching though
But Gio is the real deal
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
No thanks on Jones.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
How much better would Gio be compared to Teheran/Minor? Is that value worth Vizcaino, Gilmartin, and Lipka? Plus JJ for Jones is a huge over pay, we most likely wouldn’t even start Jones over Prado.
I <3 Runz
We wouldn’t be replacing Teheran nor Minor. To be honest I think he’d be much better than either. Minor has shown that he can be a solid pitcher, Teheran has shown that he is still raw. Down the road Teheran might turn out to be light years ahead of Gonzalez but we probably won’t see him ascend to that level for another 2-4 years. By that time Gonzalez would have been traded or would be a free agent.
With Vizcaino its a guy who could turn into a TOR starter or an elite reliever. If he were to stick as a starter we wouldn’t see him until mid 2013 possibly. Even then that’s a pretty big if considering his small frame and questions about durability. Gilmartin is someone who is just going to be a solid pitcher. Nothing special. We have tons of those in the minors already. Lipka is someone who could eventually be a great lead off hitter like Bourn but he’s 3-4 years away.
With that trade we’d be trading from a position of strength. Yea we’d miss those guys if they did well in Oakland but we’d also love having someone who is a good #2 starter that is also a lefty. Having a TOR lefty would be great in my opinion. We haven’t had one since Glavine in his prime.
If we acquire Jones I’m pretty sure the team trades Prado. They wouldn’t have both and one be on the bench simply because they both cost too much.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry drumza, don't buy this.
As for the first trade, the Orioles have already indicated that they want more for Jones and we shouldn’t give more for Jones. (And besides, if we had Prado and Jones, Prado should be starting, not Jones.)
As for the second trade, I am not sure we need Gio, it costs of Lipka, and we are not even allowed to trade Gilmartin as a PTBNL yet. It has to be more than six months after the signing date because PTBNL’s can only last six months and he has to be signed for a year to be traded.
Well I’m assuming that if we trade for Jones then the team will trade Prado. I know that Jones isn’t light years ahead of Prado as a hitter however our Front Office apparently is in love with the HR and with Jones having more HR power than Prado he’d probably get traded for a CF prospect after getting Jones.
Just because we can’t trade Gilmartin yet doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be able to include him in a deal. There have been plenty of trades with PTBNL.
by drumzalicious on Dec 15, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
I really think we should atleast discuss Hanson with teams
Maybe I’m just that scared of future shoulder issues, but I think his return over JJ would be significant, especially with the increase in controllable years.
We aren’t going to resign both, $ wise and necessity wise. Even if we trade JJ now, I don’t see Hanson staying long term. He’ll have interest, as will we. But with so much talent coming up, we may not feel the need to spend the money he’ll command. I think he’ll go back home to the west coast.
A package of Hanson/Vizcaino/Lipka could land us an awfully nice bat. And even as a devout member of the Dont Trade Marteeen committee, I’d swap him for Lipka if it meant Fowler and Arenado.( which I don’t see Rox turning down)
This would still leave us with Huddy, JJ, Minor, Beachy and JT/Delgado, the other and Meds ready to go. And we’d still have a good number of arms coming through in the next couple of seasons. Hopefully a move like this would open a spot for Hoover as a SP where he belongs as well.
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
Hanson’s value is way low right now because of the shoulder issue. Those are the trickiest injuries for pitchers. If he comes back healthy and strong then we might be open to dealing him next year but we’d have to have great years from Minor, Beachy and whoever replaces Jurrjens in the rotation if he’s traded.
by drumzalicious on Dec 14, 2011 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
so you don't think
Hanson, Vizzy and Prado for land Fowler and Arenado?
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
It could but we’d be selling low on him
by drumzalicious on Dec 15, 2011 12:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
we should be gettng ANOTHER bat in that scenario
Hanson, Vizcaino and Prado should = Fowler, Arenado and Wheeler.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 15, 2011 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
While that is a nice prospect haul...
…I didn’t know we were rebuilding and giving up on 2012, and that trade sure looks like it.
Don't care for Adam Jones...
Would do JJ for Andino, Xavier Avery and another guy with potential like a Matt Angle or Josh Bell.
http://tarpslides-r-us.blogspot.com/
Luke Scott?
What would he cost? I know he’s left-handed, but he could definitely help us offensively.
If we got him cheap enough he wouldn’t necessarily push Prado to the bench or off the roster. The two could split time in LF with Prado serving as the super utility when guys are injured or need a day off.
I kinda like Scott at the right price, but as long as Prado, Hinske and Diaz are on the 25 man do we have a spot for him?
Definitely got power even if he is only a step above Hinske in LF.
http://tarpslides-r-us.blogspot.com/
There's definitely better options than Luke Scott out there
But, I dunno, if the price is really low, then maybe.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Until the Braves move to the AL...
…and have a DH position available, I don’t see the need for Luke Scott.
Crazy sauce
He drinks it through a straw.
No thanks!
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Dec 18, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'm officially on the Beltran wagon
Id even go as far as giving him a third year option that vests if he plays 130 games and has a .290 average in the second year of his deal.
Trade Jurrjens to Colorado for Wheeler and another prospect.
Sign Beltran.
Win games.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 15, 2011 1:14 AM EST reply actions
I don't think you can have bonus's for things like Batting Average//HRS etc
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
Pretty sure you could have a bonus that vests if he dyes his hair orange
the player just has to agree to it.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
IIRC
You can’t have performance based incentives in a contract outside of games/innings played, days on roster, and career milestones (ie 500th HR 2,500 and 3,000 hits).
I’d assume the same thing would apply to a vesting option.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Really? Didn't realize there were limitations.
Although I know that list is at least short, considering that hardware is often included (Cy/GG/SS/etc.) in contracts.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Yeah, you can get bonuses for awards (and finishing a certain place in awards voting for that matter) too, you can also have bonuses for attendance, and even for maintaining a certain weight. But, as far as I know, having an incentive for something like your batting average or a certain number of hits in a season is against the rules.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
if, by another prospect, you mean Arenado, then sure.
I would do a Jurrjens + Vizcaino for Wheeler + Arenado deal. I think it helps both sides.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 15, 2011 3:53 AM EST up reply actions
I would not.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 15, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I just realized
that we’re going to have an ugly infield defense this year. Everyone on the diamond will likely be below average.
Might as well put a thumper at short then, huh?
I wonder if Fielder could literally plug that hole…
by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 15, 2011 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
Fielder at short? I like it.
His gravity would pull in every ball hit to the left side. How is his arm?
My day has come!
by Because I hate you, Trebeck on Dec 15, 2011 10:36 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
doesn't matter
all he has to do is field the ball, then wait on his gravitational pull to bring the runner to him
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
This conversation seems familiar.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
i feel like i've been here before.....
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 15, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Glitch in the Matrix.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 15, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
They're here.
We have to find an exit.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Tank?
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Lots of guns
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Here's a name nobody is talking about: Mike Cameron
Still a pretty good defensive CFer, probably better than Constanza overall. Had a really bad season last year, but career numbers are all pretty good with a .249/.338/.444 line. If we can’t get Betran, I’d be good with him and Jack Wilson going into the season.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
A 39 year old’s career numbers probably aren’t very useful. His last two seasons have been .226/.306/.372. Pretty uninspiring.
Defense is still fine though. He’d be a fine backup.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 15, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
For what it’s worth, DRS shows him in the negative each of the last two years. He doesn’t have the wheels he once had. If we want an all-glove 4th outfielder we can find one that can stay healthy as well.
All Glove Outfielder
Free Greg White!!
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 15, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I’m showing a +2 DRS for 2011 in CF, and it seems like his bad defense was all in Boston. He seemed to do much better after he was traded.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 15, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Tearing up winter ball, FWIW
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
I need to rosterbate or I will explode... I hope y'all have some kleenex...
This may not even make any sense and I don’t really care. I’m shell shocked right now and I’m sure you can forgive me….
Sign: Jimmy Rollins, Mike Cuddyer or Carlos Beltran
Trade: Pastornicky and JJ to Houston for Lowrie, DeShields and Wates
Prado to Colorado for Wheeler and cash
Vizcaino, Lipka and Spruill to Nats for Bryce Harper
End of delusion, end of rosterbation…. I feel better now. Thanks.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
That's just disgusting.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 15, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
...Wow.
Whatever helps, I suppose.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Yea... see what happens when Frank screws with my emotions!?
And yes… even though he had nothing to do w/ the trade, he’s screwing with me.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 15, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
to get Harper we’d need to give up at least twice as much.
by drumzalicious on Dec 15, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm glad someone thinks this was a serious post.
The rosterbation thread wouldn’t be complete without an argument.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
WTH duwanis... You think I was joking?!
I was dead serious. If I had the majick wand of GM powers, I would make that happen right now…. but I’d probably also bring back a 27 yr old Hank Aaron while I was at it….
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 16, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
So everything in your above post was a serious proposal?
Lowrie’s affecting you worse than I thought.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
smh....
my sarcasm font is broken…. I thought the majick wand comment would have taken the hook outta your mouth on that one…
Poor guy, the greenies have gone to your brain.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 16, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I thought so
but I wanted to double-check. :)
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
HEY ROGERS!
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
It boggles my mind that we couldn’t have flipped a guy like Guerrin to the Red Sox for Lawrie…SMH.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
Gearrin is not close to the same level as Melancon, so I’m not sure why you think that would work. Sure, he could turn out to be a fine reliever, but he’s a ROOGY. Melancon has a good track record and closing experience. He’s at least a couple rungs above Gearrin in the value department.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I agree
but I don’t see a reason why we couldn’t get Lowrie for one or two of bullpen arms in our system not named Kimbrel, Venters, or EOF unless the Braves aren’t very high on Lowrie. The only thing Melancon has in favor versus our arms is that he has a full MLB season under his belt.
i just think FW is on vacation... he'll get w/ the Stros when he gets back...
I MUST BELIEVE THIS.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 15, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
You get my point. If we could have traded a reliever to get Lawrie, that should have been examined.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 15, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t disagree. However, I don’t know that any of our relievers fit the “proven” label that the Red Sox were looking for, save O’Ventbrel. Maybe we just didn’t match up well with what they were looking for in that trade.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Brett was w/ the Red Sox!?
Mind=Blown.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 16, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't know they had Lawrie... Wow... news to me...
Please let this go… or I will go mad.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 15, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm will too.
I really wanted us to get Lowrie and Middlebrooks. I can’t believe that Lowrie’s price was so low and we didn’t get him.
FA signings that I’d do tomorrow:
Obviously these are either/or case scenarios
1. Cody Ross: 3/16 million- could be a CF replacement for Bourn, or could be one heck of a trade chip if he turns in a good year.
2. J.D. Drew- can still hit and field. Would be a great platoon partner for Prado (or even a 100-120 game player). Could probably be had for 4-5 million.
3. Jeff Keppinger- below average fielder, but can play multiple positions without hurting the team offensively. Could probably be had for 2-2.5 million.
Trades that I’d do tomorrow:
1. Jurrjens for Swisher and 5 million.
2. Jurrjens for Wheeler and Seth Smith
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Neither of those trades would be accepted.
Yanks wouldn’t give us money to take Swisher.
Think the Rockies would only give us one of those+ some fodder for JJ
JJ has 2 years of team control. If the Yanks balk at that offer, screw ’em. According to B-ref, JJ was more valuable than him last year and was hurt for 1/4 of the year.
Ditto on Rockies. Smith is a platoon player and Wheeler is a gamble (a gamble I’d be willing to take).
I think your devaluing Jurrjens and his 2 cost-controlled years left.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
I have no problem holding off on pulling the trigger on a JJ deal.
If we wait till deadline, his value will either be higher, or we’ll need him cause someoe else is hurt.
I’d like to sign JJ long-term if I could,
I see no reason to sign JJ long term when there are a line of cheap young starters for years to come. Give me Hudson as the staff vet and keep bringing the young’ uns.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Or he'll be the one hurt and have no value at all going in to
his last arb season, with several others back clogged waiting to take his spot.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
More Beltran rumblins
It seems like the Rockies prefer Cuddyer over Beltran. Its becoming more and more clear he isn’t going to get the years or the money he wants. I’d really like to see us swoop in and get him on a very interesting deal.
Year 1, $8.5 million with incentives based on performance, games played, awards, etc. that could get him up to $12
Year 2 I would make this a player option. He will probably be offended that he isn’t getting the kind of money or the length he wants in a contract, so I could see him coming here for one year and going on a tear to prove he deserves one more pay day. We could give him this option to opt out of the contract if he wants to test the free agent market, or if he stays here, year two is a $9.5-10 million deal with incentives.
Year 3: Another option year. This option would vest with 130 or so games played in year two, provided he stays with us.
We’d have to trade Jurrjens to free up the money, but if we could, that would be such a potent lineup next year.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 15, 2011 4:33 PM EST reply actions
RE: Beltran
Something has to be worrying the teams that need him. I’m guessing his knees aren’t painting too pretty of a picture, and that’s why he’s not generating more interest. I’m good with that 1 year contract, and the dollars associated with it. However, rather than a player option for the following year, I’d feel much more comfortable with a mutual option.
As far as trading JJ, under this scenario, I’d be good with sending him to Colorado for prospects, even though we’d have to settle for Wheeler and Blackmon, I’m sure. I doubt Arenado would be traded, even straight up for JJ. I’d do cartwheels if he was included, though.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 15, 2011 4:51 PM EST up reply actions
A mututal option would work
I was just posting that under the assumption that he’d be working his but off to get one last pay day.
Id be fine with Wheeler and Blackmon for JJ, but I’d love to get Wheeler and Arenado. I just don’t think its happening in this or any universe.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 15, 2011 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
Same thoughts here. In order to land Arenado, we’d have to give up JJ and Prado, at the very least, in the deal.
Personally, I’d look at other options, and I believe FW is doing so, now that it looks as though Cuddyer is signing with the Rockies. I’d take a shot at the Reds, personally, and then there’s the Texas idea (JJ for Nelson Cruz), but I think I’ve beaten that horse into the ground by now.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Wheeler should be the 3rd player, IMO.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 16, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Possibly, yeah, but wouldn’t you agree that the return would be worth it? Obviously it would depend on the player we have to deal.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 16, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
or...
He’s got numerous good and similar offers and is trying to let teams out-bid each other. General silence doesn’t mean general disinterest.
by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 15, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
he was the most sought after bat mid season
he went to the giants and kept hitting just as well… I don’t see why he would have become less valuable. I suspect he wants to be more valuable though, and that this will lead him to a short contract or a contract with a player option. I really hope we see what we can do. He does so much for our team… He gives us a backup CF, a backup 3hole hitter, a switch hitting impact bat, a lockdown left fielder (lockdown outfield). I really think though, that we should keep Prado to backup Beltran and Chipper and potentially even Heyward. No FA bullpen arms, inexpensive backup SS, we should be able to make that happen. Because then Prado comes in when someone goes down as a sparkplug for the team.
If the Rockies land Cuddyer, could Fowler be in play? Fowler and Wheeler for JJ would be okay by me.
Well, I expect we'll know soon enough...
Rockies To Sign Michael Cuddyer
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 16 at 9:24am CST]
The Rockies have agreed to sign Michael Cuddyer to a three-year, $31.5MM deal, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (Twitter links). Troy Renck of the Denver Post reported growing momentum toward a deal last night.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I gotta believe they got him to play the outfield… nothing else except in an emergency. Cuddyer did get 247 innings at 2B and 3B in 2011, but that was really the first time he’d done so since 2004-2005.
So in my thinking, Cuddyer, Fowler, and Cargo block any other OF’s in their system for at least the 3 years of this new deal with Cuddyer. They might keep Blackmon as their #4, but Smith and Wheeler would seem to be the logical guys out of the mix.
So does a deal of Smith & Wheeler for Prado make sense? As an aside, if they now land Prado for 2B, they’ve got to be the favorite in their division… easily.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I'd rather do Smith and Wheeler for JJ
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 16, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Understandable…. just don’t know what we do with Prado if that’s the deal.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Starting LF
then Smith slides in when he moves to 3B to cover Chipper, or Smith moves to RF if Heyward goes down, and is essentially the 4th OF, with Wheeler in Gwinnett for a year until Bourn’s deal expires.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
No, from everything I’ve read, they don’t view him that way. He’ll be an everyday OF and Smith will be flipped somewhere.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 16, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Just a thought....
Haven’t really looked this thread over all that well, but wouldn’t a package of Jones, Reynolds, and Hardy for JJ and Prado be a nice return? You get AJ which most Balt fans seem to think hes not even worth JJ alone. I consider this a fair trade, LF: check, SS: Check,
3B: CHECK
"Reach Around?"
Wait...
I thought we had some rookie penciled in at 3B all ready, but his name is escaping me.
btw…i hope you just forgot the sarcasm font
If we wanted a stopgap SS, how about the Japanese guy the Yanks won via posting recently.
Not that great, probably won’t be too expensive. but likely is a better choice then Cedeno.
WOuldn’t have to give anything more then a B prospect for him I think.
Well, the Yankees would want at least their $2m posting fee back for the privilege… or the equivalent prospect. Funny thing about making a ‘throw-in’ posting fee bid. Sometimes you win, whether you wanted to or not!
In all honesty, I gotta wonder if it isn’t a looooong time before another Japanese player ends up on the Braves’ roster. And that feeling comes more from the side of the possible players, given that they certainly know how things went down with Kawakami.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Cuddyer signed...
Most on PR see another trade coming, much like they experienced with the Hernandez signing and Iannetta deal.
Six OF now on squad…CarGo, Fowler, Cuddyer, Smith, Colvin, and Blackmon.
Most see Smith going to us in a Prado or JJ deal (with prospects coming our way), or to the Reds in a Volquez swap.
Thoughts??
I actually kind of like a JJ deal, as it would give us a Prado/Smith platoon that keeps the team pretty well covered when Prado backs up Chipper, Freeman, or Uggla on occasion. Diaz would have to be the odd man out in that case, and I’d be okay with that. Kinda sad the org would be sending him away a second time, though.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I GOT IT!!!
That’s what FW has been waiting for! He’s get CarGo for JJ and Prado! How did I not see this coming… My goodness, I feel better now.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 16, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
NO WAI DUDE THATS JUST LIEK TEH TEXERA TRADE AND WE LOST MIKE TROUT CUZ OF THAT SO IM NOT A FAN!!!!!1
-c
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 16, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
WHADAYA YELLIN’ AT????
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 16, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
I'd do JJ for Smith and Wheeler
or add Prado and say Hoover or another solid young arm if Arenado can be squeezed out (which I’m sure he can’t, just rosterbating).
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I like where your going and here's what I'd do
Trade Martin Prado to the Rockies for Seth Smith and Tim Wheeler/Charlie Blackmon.
Trade Jair Jurrjens to the Reds for Juan Francisco, Nefi Soto, Billy Hamilton and Yorman Rodriguez.
Sign Carlos Beltran – 2 yrs/21 mil w/ option for 3rd
Roster:
Bourn – CF
Heyward – RF
Jones – 3B
McCann – C
Beltran – LF(will be the backup CF)
Uggla – 2B
Freeman – 1B
Pastornicky – SS
Bench:
Ross – C
Diaz – OF
Hinske – OF/1B
Francisco – 3B/1B/OF
Sutton – Super Utility
Rotation:
Hudson – RHP
Hanson – RHP
Beachy – RHP
Minor – LHP
Delgado/Teheran/Medlen/Vizcaino
Bullpen:
Martinez – LRP
Varvaro/Asencio – MRP
Fish – LOOGY
Medlen – MRP
O’Flaherty – SUP
Venters – SUP
Kimbrel – CP
Fish
There's details on that front... details that leave the Braves out of it.
With Cuddyer in right and Gonzalez in left, the Rockies could have a major off-season move remaining by shopping Seth Smith for a starting pitcher. Mets lefty Jonathan Niese is believed to be available in a package built around Smith.Lots more via that link, but the Braves don’t even get mentioned in the article (Tracy Ringolsby).
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
reply fail to '-C' just above
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
I just don’t see it, but it really depends on what else would be going along with Smith. I don’t see any reason for the Mets to trade away four years of Niese for three of Smith unless the prospects involved are pretty significant.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 16, 2011 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
No to the Rox, No to Adam Jones, no's all across the board.....
Move Mr. Forearms to LF, put Odarp back at 2nd and call it a day. I know it won’t happen but that is my vote. Oh, trade JJ for a prospect. Even if we don’t trade him that’s fine too! We have addition by subtraction this year by dropping D.Lowe. However, I am truly terrified of our infield defense as it stands right now!
Move Mr. Forearms to LF
did you seriously just suggest that?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 17, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Just spit-ballin' an idea JG......
Really more of a panic recommendation because of his defensive issues at 2nd. Honestly, watching him last year I just thought his defense was pure awful! On top of that, I really didn’t think Freeman, aside from his ability to pick a bad throw really showed better than average D. Then of course Chipper’s D leaves a bit to be desired aside from his ability charge in and throw to first. I know it isn’t optimal but, something has to be done. What do you suggest realistically to help on the defensive side of the ball?
Your concern over our infield defense is very reasonable. Thank God we moved Lowe, his GB rate would be killer with this bunch.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Every time our pitchers induce a ground ball this year I’m going to hear the Benny Hill music in my head.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 19, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Why?
That’s like voluntarily reading comments on a DOB post; you only do it in extreme moments of self-hate.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
by duwanis on Dec 16, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Meh, he’s set the bar higher than that for himself at this point.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 19, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Tim Wheeler
I was looking over his minor league stats at Fangraphs. I noticed that his HR’s more than doubled while is SLG% increased about 170 points why making the jump for A to AA. Can anyone ascertain as to why there was such an increase in power last year?
He was adjusting his approach from being a strong pull hitter when he first came into the bigs. Learning to hit to all fields is difficult, but he’s done a better job of getting a handle on it. He was considered to have quite a bit of pop in college.
At least that’s the explanation I’ve seen…I can’t find anywhere to confirm it.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
he also played in a hitters park as well. Not saying that is only reason of course. He is a good prospect, but I still have my doubts, he needs to cut down on his strikeouts.
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
I want Beltran
Carlos Beltran has at least one offer worth $10MM per year on the table, tweets Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com. With the Rockies out of the picture after signing Michael Cuddyer, Beltran’s known market includes the Blue Jays, Cardinals and two mystery teams.
likelihood of the Atlanta Braves being “mystery” team?
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
I don't know if there's serious discussion at this point
But I’m pretty sure the Braves at least talked to him, a little bit. I doubt the Braves would do $10 million per, though.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I don't see why we wouldn't.
We freed up $5 million from Derek Lowe, can free up another $5+ by trading JJ, and Frank Wren has said there will be a payroll increase, and however slightly that may be, we would still have $10 million already without it. Our offense with Beltran would be insane. And I think he’s definitely a serviceable CF back up, even at his age. Starting outfield of Beltran-Bourn-Heyward would relegate Prado back to the utility role, and he’d have plenty of chances to start and get at bats while filling in for Chipper and Beltran. It just makes sense.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 17, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
thats the way to go i think
thats the best team we could have..
If we are talking about having the best team we possibly can… Thats what we wold do.. Add Beltran, keep Prado
Looking more and more like we’re going to go with what we got. If Pastornicky > A-Gon and we get bouncebacks from Prado and Heyward, we’re going to be just fine doing this. None of those are overly big ifs, and we still have chips for mid-season.
I’d sign Jack Wilson while I can though just in case.
it's not Voquez
it’s Alonso, Grandal and Boxberger. Pretty MASSIVE haul for an underachiever. Latos is young and has time to turn it around, but I haven’t been overly impressed with him.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 17, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
whoa
seriously??????
wow. MAJOR win for the Padres.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 17, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
What about Latos in particular doesn't impress you?
He has a FIP of about 3.10 the last two seasons with 8.9 K/9 and only 2.7 BB/9 which seems pretty damn impressive to me, especially since he’s only 24. Don’t let his W-L record last year fool you—he’s a top of the line pitcher, and the Padres got a haul that’s befitting of his value.
Padres win this deal
They aren’t in a win now mode, so they acquire some very valuable pieces and get Volquez who can fill Latos’ spot in the rotation.
The question now is will they flip Yonder or Rizzo? They have 2 of the best 1B prospects in the game. Rizzo may need some more seasoning at Triple A though.
…and that’s the early indication: Rizzo back to AAA.
For the time being, it seems that the Padres’ current plan is to slot Alonso in at first and have Rizzo go back to Triple-A, tweets Crasnick. [GM Josh] Byrnes admits that the deal will probably be a tough pill to swallow for Anthony Rizzo, tweets Scott Miller of CBSSports.com.
The Padres GM says that he won’t rule out another trade, but he is comfortable with his team’s surplus of offensive players, Crasnick writes (via Twitter).
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
health
both physically and mentally. Dude’s a serious head case.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 18, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
One less suitor, but...
… the one that DIDN’T match up with us very well in the first place. This haul should also make Frank smile a bit…. JJ’s price certainly has not gone down today.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
How do you figure?
One of the teams willing to trade for starting pitching is now out of the picture. Other teams no longer have to compete with the Reds. I don’t know that his value has gone down, but it might have.
I don’t think the price had been set this high until today… the Rockies are balking as what seems like a lot less, for instance. Plus, Niese was all but ruled out to be on the block today, so all that means that Frank is in a better position to move JJ than he was yesterday.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Overtly it seems like this affects JJ’s trade value. But the major difference between Latos and JJ is not purely statistical (they are about the same thing, strong 2/3rd starters,) or production based. The big difference is control. Latos is a great option if you want a solid pitcher who can be part of your club for 4 years minimum (free agent in 2016.) Compared that to JJ’s reasonable salary (3.25 mill if I remember correctly) with 2 years and an agent who will make the next contract count and they are basically two different situations. JJ fits into the win now mentality, while Latos can be a building block for the next half decade+.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
JROLL to the Phillies with a 4 year deal
Figured he would go there, but 4 years seems a little too lengthy for a 33 year old SS.
its a 3 year deal with a vesting option.
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
I’d understand that argument with a young team but the whole team is nothing but vets
by drumzalicious on Dec 17, 2011 8:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Braves may have lost all their suitors
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Teams still looking for pitching.
Rockies still in.
Everybody who bid and will lose on Darvish is in.
The Yankees (maybe an ‘also-ran’ on Darvish) gotta be looking for pitching.
RedSox as well.
Cubs should be in… hadn’t heard that, though.
…and that’s just the top-of-the-iceberg reasonable guesses.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
Everybody who bid and will lose on Darvish is in.
isn’t the posting done? Didn’t Toronto win the posting?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 18, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions
The bidding is done but Nippon Ham hasn’t announced who had the highest bid yet.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
hopefully something gets done next week. With Latos off the board and Darvish gone.
by drumzalicious on Dec 18, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
link fail
Thougth I posted a link to MLBTR about the Reds interest in Jurrjens Anyways, here it is…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/reds-continue-to-look-for-pitching.html
Any chance at all that the Cubs part with Brett Jackson?
Rebuilding teams don’t usually give up top prospects, but I salivate over his on-base skills and power potential. The speed is also nice to have.
Great question. I was just thinking the exact same thought just a couple of days ago.
I’ve previously suggested the Braves pursue a strategy of specifically targeting top prospects and attempting to make a prospect or prospects for top prospect trade. Although it isn’t done (or at least, isn’t done except very infrequently), I see no particular reason why it shouldn’t be considered as being in the realm of the possible.
So, we have a surplus of ML-ready or almost ready pitching prospects and the Cubs might really like one or two of them. If this were true, why couldn’t, for example, a Randall Delgado for Brett Jackson trade not be a legitimate possibility? Please don’t misunderstand that I am advocating this specific trade. Instead, I’m mostly just theorizing and speculating about how the Braves could possibly improve the organization.
I think traded of this nature should be discussed more frequently. Whenever a team develops a top prospect, it seems like they get into a blind holding pattern and ignore any trade that doesn’t net immediate major-league return, even if the prospect doesn’t fill a particular organizational need (I’m looking at you Frank Wren). I’m not saying that Wren should trade one of the big three for any old 3B or CF prospect, but if he can get a premier, top-25 prospect in return then he should at least consider it.
by swainzy on Dec 19, 2011 9:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Josh Hamilton was traded in this fashion.
Was it for Edison Volquez, or Johny Cueto? Someone like that. But if the pitcher had stayed healthy, it wouldn’t have seemed as bad as it probably does now.
Edison Volquez and Danny Herrera
Josh Hamilton was traded for. So yeah, Rangers fleeced the hell out of the Reds on that. Volquez was only actually good in 2008, and has basically sucked, been hurt, or both ever since.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Some others?
Delmon Young for Matt Garza
Edwin Jackson for everyone on the planet
If Albert played in the AFL, they’d have to rename it the AZ/NM Fall League, based on where his homers landed.
Taking off the "homer" hat for a minute
What would you give up if the Braves were trading FOR Jurrjens?
I like Jurrjens better than Hanson, but I’d be thinking Wren was crazy as a shithouse rat for giving up a lot for a guy that hasn’t finished 2 seasons in a row and has a total of 3 DL stints in 2 years. Latos brought a haul for the Padres, he doesn’t have Jurrjens injury record.
I think it’s getting real close to time to sign a couple of FA’s and hold on to Jurrjens until his value rebounds.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
This is a great question and one if we all took our homer hat off for a minute... we'd have to seriously realize this...
JJ is a great piece on our team… Just like Prado is… But they are both more valuable to us (as insurance pieces) than they are to other teams.
I do not think JJ would net anything better than a MLB average starter and a potential B prospect….
That is why (and I promise I won’t harp on this long) we should have sent him to the Red Sox for Jed Lowrie and Middlebrooks (or another piece)… It just made sense and fit everything we need w/ everything the Red Sox need… They get a vet in the pen and we get the super utility player we should be using Prado as.. and the great thing, Lowrie can play SS full time if Pasty failed…
It just made too much freaking sense and Frank Wren screwed it up by not acting! Ok, I’m getting work up again, must walk away from the keyboard and put my “In Frank Wren I Trust” brainwashing music back on…. it really is theraputic…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
My thought all along was that the primary objective of FW in entertaining a trade of JJ was to downsize payroll and thus have the capacity to sign a moderately high-priced free agent (like maybe Beltran) or take back a more high-priced (than JJ)position player.
Because of this and the market for SP still developing and my perception that it really could still be early in the off-season wheeling and dealing, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Wren pull the trigger literally any day. On the other hand, I would be very surprised if Jair is still a Brave come spring camp.
With Yu Darvish, Roy Oswalt, Hiroki Kuroda, Edwin Jackson, Javy Vazquez, Paul Maholm, Bartolo Colon, Livan Hernandez and others still available as FA’s, other teams have plenty of options. If they value Jurrjens, that’s great. My concern is that his injury history is going to limit what we get in return.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Darvish, Oswalt, Kuroda, and Jackson matter
those other names are scraps and shouldn’t be in the same conversation as Jurrjens. Vazquez, if I’m not mistaken, is retiring, so shouldn’t be included.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 19, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Oswalt is injury prone
And Kuroda is old. All that really matter is where Jackson lands. Toronto wasn’t really in on Jurrjens anyways.
But both are also solid arms with proven front half of the rotation production
if I’m looking at say 2 yrs/$12m or so with Jurrjens, after losing multiple prospects. Or say the same 2/$12m in Kuroda and Oswalt without having to give up prospects, I take the old guys all day and don’t think twice about it.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 19, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
On the other hand,
if the trade of JJ is to a deep pocket team (Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, etc.), they are making the trade with a view toward extending him and having him be their number 2 or 3 SP for the next 4-5 years or longer. A team in that category would be less inclined IMO to go with an older player who didn’t offer the same upside.
Or they'd be more inclined to do so
considering they could get the cheap vet now, and then buy a free agent Jurrjens in two years after seeing how problematic that knee really will be going forward. Save the prospects now, and the risk with giving him a long term deal.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
That also would require a different homer hat
We’re talking often around here about giving big contracts or trading major pieces for a Jurrjens-type of hitter at SS or OF because we need something resembling a stud hitter. The good question is this:
Jurrjens was #66 in WAR the last three years…the hitters from #61-#70 in that time are (in order) Jose Reyes, Marco Scutaro, Michael Young, Chris Young of the D-Backs, David Wright, Franklin Gutierrez, Jimmy Rollins, Stephen Drew, Angel Pagan, and Martin Prado. What would you trade to be able to get a guy in that group with one year of control? How about one of these names between 71 and 100: Erick Aybar, Denard Span, Corey Hart, Jason Bartlett, Carlos Beltran, Drew Stubbs, Andre Ethier, Colby Rasmus, Josh Willingham, Asdrubal Cabrera, or Adam Jones? What would be too much to give for a guy like that?
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Dec 19, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
WAR equality is a good starting point
Years of team control and cost have to be figured in as well. Then injuries and performance trends. I guess it’s not a simple “force trade” is it?
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
Um
huh?
No one’s suggesting a forced trade or an imbalance. I’m asking what we’d give for a hitter of the quality mentioned with similar cost and control.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Dec 19, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
2 B prospects
maybe throw in a low level, high upside flyer if my organization had designs on resigning JJ to a long term deal buying out these next 2 arb years, the first year of free agency, and 1 or 2 team options in years 4 and 5.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 19, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
If Wren was offering 2 B prospects, say Pastornicky and Gilmartin or Hoover for a SP that only started 20 and 23 games the last 2 years, I expect TC would be calling for Wren’s head on a stick.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
I don't think so.
That would be a fair shake considering what other teams have gotten for their SPs… injury or not…
Look at what the Royals got for Head Case Greinke. Case closed.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
20 and 23 games with
but at the level Jurrjens has put them in that time when healthy (his numbers in 2010 aren’t good, but they get a lot better when you take out the injured starts), and yeah, they would. But that’s only because we have starting pitching to spare and need Pasty.
Let’s not forget, JJ does have that All Star shine to him, and when healthy during his career, FIP be damned cause he’s exceeded those numbers and been extremely productive. He’s a proven front half of the rotation arm, at a young age, with two cost controlled seasons left. He’s not Greinke, or Mat Latos, but he’s still a front half of the rotation producer, and has been his entire career. I’d consider him as good or better of a trade piece as Edwin Jackson, and he’s been a primary piece getting some very good returns the last few years.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 19, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I’m a Jurrjens fan, I’m for trying to extend him. Just trying to get a feel for whether or not we are being too “homerish” in our expectations of his return in a trade or if Wren might be asking for too much. If the return is Seth Smith, I’d rather keep JJ. If we can get a couple of B prospects, I’d probably be for it.
I do appreciate your replies, I’ve always respected your opinion. Just wanted to throw the “homer hat” out there to see if we might be missing something.
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
I’d probably be fine with JJ for Wheeler and Blackmon.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 19, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the kind words
and I’d say two B prospects depends on the prospects. We need 3B and CF, and near ready ones at that. B prospect arms, or in A ball don’t really fit what Wren wants and would have to be better ’spects.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Am I the only one who doesn't trust Mat Latos any farther than I can throw him?
I believe the Reds are morons for making that deal and they will be sorry and this is their Teixiera trade. For years, they will regret this move. I wish I had a time machine to go forward 5 years just so I could laugh at this deal and teleport back.
In San Diego (a Pitchers Park) the kid was good… not great. ok… maybe he was a little better than good… but how many good San Diego pitchers leave and are just ok on other teams?
If I were a Padres fan, I would be sending gift baskets full of ponies and rainbows to the GM this morning. They pulled a coup and their front office knows it.
JJ isn’t going to outproduce Latos (dollar value wise) but he will be a better pitcher than him over the course of his next 2 years and first FA contract… I just hope the Mets don’t sign him and force us to play him all year as he’d dissect us in ways only Satan can devise.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, most people tend to agree that San Diego won pretty handily, myself included.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 19, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
WON!?
I don’t care who we have where… What would we be saying right now if FW pulled that haul for JJ?
Someone would already have the bronze poured for his statue….
Someone would Tebow in his honor!
Someone would probably be in the hospital, having suffered a stroke at the genius of the man… (that would most likely be me… I would have also sharted a little)…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was a good trade for both teams. I’m pretty high on Latos though. Good K rates. Decent to good walk rates. Mainly a ground ball pitcher. I know had to have benefited from Petco a bit, but he still has potential to be an ace, and still has 4 years of team control.
I don’t think we could get a haul like that for Jurrjens. I really think the Cahill deal is the deal we need to look at for a return on Jurrjens, a good prospect, 4th OF type value and a reliever.
From the Rockies this would be something like Wheeler, Smith, and a reliever/low prospect.
The Braves just need to decide if that is more valuable than having Jurrjens in our rotation next year.
I like Latos...
but agree that what the Reds gave up is a high price. Volquez, on his good days, is just as good as Latos, albeit with a lot less good days. But to add what is probably another solid relief arm and possibly their starting 1B and C for the much of the rest of the decade? That’s steep. And word is they may trade Rizzo for Matt Garza, so their pitching still stays strong, they’ve just added the relief arm, C, and extra starter to the fold.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Wow... that would be a dynamic fleecing the likes of which we've not seen in a while...
Byrnes for GM of the Year (2011 and 2012) if he pulls that move off… (I have the right GM right? Otherwise, this is embarrassing and awkward as it would have taken me less time to google this than type this long stupid caveot)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
If the fleecing you refer to would be RIzzo for Garza...
I’m pretty sure others would be going to the Cubs besides just the young slugging 1B.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
ok... I would hope so....
otherwise I’m taking the first flight to GM school and signing up to be one myself…
Between the Reds/Pads deal and the Lowrie give-away… I think I’ve got the chops to be a GM in baseball… :-)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
“Volquez, on his good days, is just as good as Latos”
Isn’t this something you could say about literally every other pitcher ever? “Derek Lowe, on his good days, is just as good as Roy Halladay, albeit with a lot less good days.”
Volquez is a throw in. They’ll hope he can get some PETCO ERA* going and flip him for more prospects, because he’s not likely to be a part of the next competing Padres team.
The Reds got exactly what they needed without giving up anything they couldn’t do without. Win/win trade.
good point...
but if Volquez can get a handle on his control, they have a pitcher as productive as Latos.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
It's time
That we go hard after Beltran and hopefully sign him and move Prado to the super utility roll and sign Ronney Cedeno to play SS til pastornicky is ready
I'd love to stick Beltran in LF and let Prado bounce around four positions
…but FW will either need cash we don’t know exists or a really, really good pitch for that to happen. Too many teams with a need for someone like Beltran and the money to sign him are out there for the Braves to be a favorite to get him. He’s also not worth the 3yr/ $36M or so he’ll likely wind up with.
by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 19, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
He’s also not worth the 3yr/ $36M or so he’ll likely wind up with.
Yes he is. He has exceeded 12M in value every year except 2005 and 2010. I wouldn’t want to sign him for more than two years, but if we had the money to sign him for a 2 yrs, 8-12M a year, we would be getting great value for his production.
The secret of WAR value is that free agency is an inefficient way to buy wins in the first place, so sure, a player is “worth” $12 MM, but that doesn’t mean that he’s worth $12 MM.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
But if you're a competitive team
The marginal value of a win rises, and if you can buy 2-4 wins on the free agent market, you increase the odds of recovering that value. If $12MM is the difference between reaching the playoffs and not, then it’s probably worth spending. A playoff home gate, or two, with added tv revenues, those are good things, and if you go deep into the playoffs, more and more money, merchandising, etc.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
New Rosterbatory Partner...
The San Diego Padres… Although I will admit, I’m scared out of my mind to deal with them the way they fleeced the Reds but alas, here’s my thought…
Their farm is pretty deep. They could use a pitcher now that they stole the Reds farm for Latos… They aren’t built to lose at all and in fact, could be a dynasty for a while with the way they’ve horded good prospects in recent years. Here’s my thought… and it’s a bit different than what we’ve proposed before…
Vizcaino, Spruill and Salcedo for Jedd Gyorko, Raymond Fuentes, Cameron Maybin and Everth Cabrera…
Two questions
Who hangs up first?
What could we wrangle from the Padres?
Anyone even care it’s a slow news day and my sole form of entertainment is this site and all you wonderful people… I’m dying for a conversation.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
1. Pads would laugh and then hang up.
2. Depends what they are looking for. Looks like they could use some help up the middle and maybe some pitching since you can’t have too much of it, but they have a while to figure those spots out before they start competing again.
Curious why you think they need help up the middle...
have you not looked at their 40 man?
Also, what’s laughable about the package offered… I’m dying for intellegent conversation over here and will milk ur response for all it’s worth. :-)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes I have looked at their roster
Bartlett is decent at SS but he will be probably gone after 2013 if not 2012. Same with Hudson. Cabrera could be decent going forward, but he missed a majority of last season and hasn’t started since 2009. They definitely could use some help up the middle. Seems to me I’m not the one who hasn’t looked at their roster :)
And your package...
They aren’t built to lose at all and in fact, could be a dynasty for a while with the way they’ve horded good prospects in recent years.
Then why would they trade them for prospects who aren’t as good?
Huh?!
Prospects who “aren’t good”, please explain
Vizcaino has the potential to be a #2 starter, but he is likely to end up in the pen which hurts his value drastically. Spruill can be a solid #3/#4 workhorse. Salcedo has the potential to be a middle of the order bat, but he hasn’t shown it yet. Vizcaino and Gyrko were both rated B+ by Sickels, but Vizcaino durability issues concern me and I would take Gyrko. Salcedo has the edge over Fuentes because of his potential. I guess there isn’t a huge difference prospect wise, but what really makes this trade unrealistic is that the Padres also throw in Maybin and Cabrera.
correction
he has the potential to be a no. 1 starter
Hrmm...
Don’t know how to take the “I’m not the one who hasn’t looked at their roster” comment… as I mentioned the 40 man… and I didn’t mention anything about beyond 2012… (other than my dynasty bit)
They are one of the few teams w/ solid depth at the critical SS/2B positions….
Bartlett, Cabrera and Hudson all can play both 2B and SS reliably but alas… I will accept your critique and stand by puzzled a bit….
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
huh?
They are one of the few teams w/ solid depth at the critical SS/2B positions….
Hudson is 33 and Bartlett is 31. They will be gone in the next two years. They don’t have depth up the middle.
/clears throat.... (or wipes off fingers... whatever the internet equivalent is)
I am refering to the 2012 version of the San Diego Padres… I don’t care about two years from now.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think the internet equivalent would be cracking your knuckles.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 19, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
ahh... well I guess so..
but when rosterbating, somehow wiping off my fingers works better for me… It keeps the keyboard a little cleaner…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
and yes... if you're getting the visual of
me having to use my fingers on my little rosterbator… you’re getting the right image. :-D
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
by the way... I used you're in the correct context twice in this statement.
You’re welcome (again) Mr. swainzy
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
HEY! I spelled your name right....
without even looking… I am a very good President today. :-D that makes me happy.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
If we're playing grammar Nazi,
then why did you end your sentence with an ellipsis? Was there more information following that sentence that you decided to omit?
Don’t mind me. The use of ellipses on the internet is a pet peeve. Bah humbug and such.
I love ellipses…..
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 20, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
There is a position in my cabinet for an editor in chief...
Interested in the position!?
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
oooh.. salary...
you want to get paid!? Most people just WANT to work for me… they don’t ask for compensation.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
If I get to make fun of people then I’m on-board! Bringing tears to the faces of the inept is compensation in-and-of itself, I suppose.
Not only do you get to, it’s a requirement of the position.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 20, 2011 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
You're hired!
don’t disappoint me… My security detail is available to you so feel free to unleash your fury with no fear of reprisal.. so long as it’s tasteful as your reputation has shown it to be.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t care about two years from now.
but the Padres do. that’s why they made that trade.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 20, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
1) Padres. They aren’t moving Maybin, especially after a strong year last season which looks like his tools are starting to work.
2) Possibly a SS since they have Cabrera and Jason Bartlett. If we needed something thrown in, maybe Kyle Blanks although i wouldn’t rate him high.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I didn't put JJ in the conversation as i'm sure they'd rather have a cost controlled player
as opposed to the likes of JJ and Prado… but wouldn’t a farm swap work out for both teams? At least a little bit?
they need pitching, we need position players… They have some strengths in the OF at the minor league level.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
New possibility
Now that AZ has (surprisingly) signed Jason Kubel, they have 4 starter-caliber outfielders. I have a hard time believing they would relegate Gerald Parra to the bench. Could a package centered around JJ/Beachy/Delgado + a ’spect or 2 get them to come off Chris Young. Very underrated player who would fit our needs perfectly imho.
RE: Young – before you want him in a Braves jersey, take a look at his home/road splits. It’s not a pretty picture.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
You're killing me. Don't you mean Justin Upton?
A package w/ that much better not net us Chris Young… I would cry in my cheerios…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Chris Young? You can't be serious
A career .240/ .319/ .437, 96 wRC+ hitter with a 23% K rate to boot? I wouldn’t give them anything for him.
by crimsonqueen9 on Dec 19, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, he’s made some improvements in his hitting the last two seasons—especially with decreasing his K-rate and increasing his BB-rate. As of right now he’s good for above-average offense from CF and when combined with his good-maybe-great defense (which is hard to come by at the position), you get a 4.6 WAR player, which he’s been in in both 2010 and 2011. I would give up a fair bit of value for a 4-5 WAR player who’s under control for 2 more years with a team option for a third.
Last 2 seasons
.247/.336/.436, 46 HR, 71 2B, 50 SB
Uhhh, yeah, I’d take that in CF or anywhere for that matter.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
we missed our chance
it was a little more possible going into last summer..
As all of them were with less than a season on their contracts
the Angels can't trade Pujols
NTC.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 20, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
That's a loser mentality.
If Wren was really dedicated, he’d find a way. But until then, he needs to get busy trading for Kemp and Verlander and Justin Upton and also Longoria. And Miggy Cabrera too.
Without giving up Teheran, Vizcaino or Delgado, of course. I’m not crazy.
/ vs. +
“/” is generally understood as “or,” as in “JJ or Beachy or Delgado.” I had intended them all to be in my humble proposal, I would have used the + sign.
in the military...
we use / as and…. Hence my confusion… Also, the reply button is your friend. :-)
In that case, it’s a bit more palatable. but i still don’t want young.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I would also take / to mean and.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 19, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
in the context above, it could only mean that...
i’ve just never seen it used as such.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 19, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
New item on my rosterbatory wish list....
Ryne Sandberg as our Hitting/Bench coach…. or our coach in whatever fashion he’s willing to join us in at the MLB level… Got it, we just found a winner of a coach from Chicago… I think this one is better. And he wants to coach a team in the MLB… I’m sure there’s so capacity we could hire him into…. right?
Don’t ask me why I am rosterbating about such blatantly impossible things but…. hey, I need to do something with my time.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
Beachy
Vizcaino
Simmons
Lipka
Hoover
J-Terd
For:
Justin Upton
Braves get their bat. Arizona gets a pitcher they need now and a TOR potential arm for the future. They get a SS who could replace Drew. Lipka is someone they can bring along slow to take over in CF and J-Terd is someone who could be a future big bat for them.
Braves line up (That I’d like)
Bourn
Chip
Heyward
Upton
McCann
Uggla
Freeman
Pastornicky
by drumzalicious on Dec 19, 2011 5:35 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wouldn't call that an overpay
because that’s probably what it would take to pry Justin Upton from their cold hands, but that much, much more than he’s worth in my opinion.
by swainzy on Dec 19, 2011 7:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly
I’d give up Teheran for Upton
Upton would make put this team over the top.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
I seriously tried to avoid Teheran just because I’d love to have him around for years to come. Anyone else they can have.
by drumzalicious on Dec 19, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Can you imagine Upton and Heyward for 5-6 years?
I would do anything to make that happen.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 19, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
To be Honest
I’d give up Freeman.
Yep. I said it.
by drumzalicious on Dec 19, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
I have a feeling that the D-Backs are going to be set for a long, long time with Goldschmidt. His power is rediculous.
Justin Upton in a Braves uniform would make me grow lady parts and cream my panties...
Unfortunately, I don’t think I’d be happy giving that much up for him…. Call me crazy but I think I’d rather have those pieces laying around on the farm as I believe we could get more for less somewhere else.
Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
The best scenario to make us better now and going forward
Sign Beltran to a 2/24 contract with a 3rd year option.
Keep Prado around to both back up Beltran and Chipper. This alone would give him north of 400 plate appearances.
Trade Jair for a stud outfield prospect, a B+ infield prospect, and a veteran RH reliever.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
I've been barking up this tree for weeks.
Trade Jurrjens to Colorado for Wheeler + and then sign Beltran.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 19, 2011 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
I like Wheeler, but I wouldn’t want him as a centerpiece prospect. 1 aboration year of power and lots’o’strikouts. I wouldn’t mind getting him. I just don’t know if I’d want to center around him.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Wow.
I had not seen/noticed/payed attention to the huge amount of K’s until you mentioned that. Mark Reynolds would even be embarrassed of that.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 19, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Hyperbole much??
Reynolds has a K% consistently north of 30%, Wheeler has one season above 20%.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 19, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yes.
I was clearly joking. Thanks for ruining it.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Dec 19, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
But we are talking minors vs majors if a guys K% is already 20% in the minor who knows how much worse it’ll be in the ML.
It's worked out all right so far for Mike Stanton
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Just because it works out for Stanton, then it certainly means it will work out for Wheeler? I know that isn’t what you said, but it can certainly be twisted that way ;)
LIke I have said in other threads(and this one too), I like Wheeler, but I’m not completely sold on him. Wheeler played in a hitters park too, which certainly helped his numbers, but also wasn’t the only reason for his good season. Could Wheeler be similar to Chris Young of Arizona with the bat and glove? Could he be similar to Mark Reynolds at the plate? Could he be in between the two? Could he be like Mike Stanton? This could be one of those trades where you don’t fully know what you have in Wheeler until he shows it in MLB. It’s a guessing game for me. Obviously with prospects it is a guessing game, but it’s def 50/50 with Wheeler, you really don’t know what you will get from him in MLB. Just don’t care to deal JJ or Prado for such a high risk. Of course, that’s just me.
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
Shouldn’t be a whole lot worse. Reynolds and Stanton (since he was mentioned below) had 30% K rates at various points in the minors. They didn’t start at 20% and end up ballooning out.
Strikeout rates tend to become reliable in a relatively small amount of PAs, so you shouldn’t expect huge jumps except in SSS. The nice thing about Wheeler, in this particular sense, is that he’s maintained relatively consistent K rates. 19% in both A and High-A, small jump to 22% in AA.
There’s no reason to think he’s going to bump up to 25-30%. He should stick around 20%, which isn’t great but isn’t horrible considering his decent walk rate.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 20, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
This isn't a new revelation as I have read this a few hundred times in other mediums...
Appreciate the thought but I’ve read this so many times, it hurts my eyes to think about it… It makes too much sense.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
$51.7 million, just to negotiate a contract, for Yu Darvish. Holy sheep sh*t. Even if they agree to a 5 year deal for around $10 million per, the Rangers just invested $100 million on him. Hope he pans out, Nolan!
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
yea
Doesn’t it make more sense for them to sign Fielder or trade for a pitcher?
No. Darvish is a generational talent.
He will be worth more than any other oriental pitcher so far… He’s THAT good and then some… If you don’t believe me, just watch. I love the guy and if I were a GM, I’d have spent the moon on him.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
He may be very good, but it doesn’t mean he will be able to adapt to the MLB. Not to mention the change of lifestyle. Just curious, why do you love him so much?
World Baseball Classic.
On one of the biggest stages, he showed he can get ANYONE out. He is consistently GREAT in Japan. There is very little to be worried about with his mechanics and training… Yea, adjusting to the states can be challenging but w/ him in Texas, I just think he is in a great position and he WANTS to be successful in the MLB.
He’s 25 years old. He’s got great experience under his belt. He’s got more talent in his pinkie than most have in their entire family tree…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
He graduated from the John Rocker School of Overt Racism, Stereotyping, and General Unpleasantness.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 20, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
didn't i see you in that class!??!
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Graduated salutatorian. I can now offend people in 6 languages.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 20, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Something like that...
I just didn’t want to say Asian… Something about that smells funny too… there’s no real win there.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
Try tiny rice people?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 20, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t like tiny rice people… They tick me off… All they do is drink green tea, eat fish and rice and they are so frickin tiny… I’m jealous really…
I miss my time in the land of the rising sun. Hopefully, i’ll end up there again in a couple years as it’s a dream to go back there.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 20, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
John Rocker would be proud Krash-son. Always wanted to get over there, seems like a completely bizarre culture and a ton of fun.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 20, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think we can all just agree he’s one hell of a baseball playing chink
by JohnRocker4CyYoung on Dec 20, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
LMAO, that was exactly my response.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Getting further off-topic...
Somebody’s gotta explain to me some day why ‘Oriental’ is offensive. Heck, we have nicknamed several regions of the earth over the years: the Americas, Europe, Africa, the Far East, the Orient, the Indies (mis-named, but it stuck), the Pacific Islands.
Why is ‘Oriental’ offensive and ‘African’, ‘American’, ‘European’, ‘Chinese’ or ‘Islander’ is not? I’ve always taken it to mean a reference to someone from that region. Is it because there’s so many diverse people groups in the ‘Far East’ that don’t get along together and don’t want to be lumped in with each other? If so, that’s their problem, not really mine.
Related example: I can kinda see eliminating ‘Eskimo’ and using ‘Inuit’ (for instance) since the Inuit peoples want to be called that instead. But it was still intended as an all-encompassing term for the native northlanders (including Aleuts, Yupiks, and Inuit as I do my research). But ‘Eskimo’ was intended to be insulting, though apparently Canada has deemed it so.
I dunno – there are lots of things I don’t get. This is just one of them.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
dang - yet another typo
“But ‘Eskimo’ was wasn’t intended to be insulting, though apparently Canada has deemed it so.”
Kinda changes the whole meaning of that sentence. ugh.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
Don't worry... swainzy would have been along to sweep up the mess...
But great questions and good points all around. I apparently missed the memo on Oriental being offensive as I only knew it when I watched the musical “Avenue Q” (Brilliant by the way)…
I don’t know how Asian even begins to cover people from that region as it is such a HUGE area of coverage… Am I referring to Russian, Chinese, Indian? Asian is too broad a term for me. Far Easterner just sounds dumb and little rice people might be a little too descriptive…
What is up with words being deemed racial in the first place… At the crux of it all, they are merely words. The only way they cause pain is because people choose to allow the words to have negative meaning to them in the first place. If we didn’t place such an emphasis on negative words (curse words included) they would hold no meaning and therefore be useless for those who chose to use them.
I choose not to use curse words at all and therefore they have no power or meaning to me. I know how people mean them but I choose not to empower the meaning of the word by using it…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Furthermore....
I would get more offended by someone calling me a slave driver than I would them calling me cracker or honky or whatever other retarded terms can be used for generic caucasian males…. The term slave driver actually holds meaning as I understand where it comes from and I take offense to someone trying to tell me I am working them like a very unfortunately portion of our population was worked some 60+ years ago. People don’t know what it means to be driven like a slave. Maybe children in sweat shops or women who are trafficked for sexual means… but very few in our general population understand what that means.
Geez carpengui, why did you open this up… I was perfectly content w/ the end of the previous conversation. :-)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Hey – get me a trade to chew on, and I’d be perfectly happy to let that sleeping dog lie, too… or did I just offend non-sleeping dogs?
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
I'm more offended by you wanting to chew on a trade...
What makes you think the paper even would taste good!? Lord forbid it be an email trade or even a text… you’d be one unhappy soul. I don’t like that you would do this to your body and it doesn’t make sense… You should be ashamed of yourself.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yes... yes I am
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
Good... Go to your room and think about what you did...
WHICH BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER RANT… What on God’s Green Earth (and why does it have to be green? what’s wrong with the other colors) but… How is that effective parenting!? Telling a child to go to their room and THINK about what they did… REALLY!? Where was that when I was growing up… and i’m not THAT old… I do something dumb, the paddle jumped out and smacked me and I didn’t do it again… Geez… what a culturally, politically, theologically sensitive world we live in now… AARRRGGGGHHH…. I’m moving to Mars and establishing my own colony.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
You’re lucky you got the paddle, I got the leather belt growing up.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 21, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
ditto… and my grandmother preferred the switch.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
well my dad had a range of weapons at his disposal...
by the time the belt made it through the last loop, I was usually crying bloody murder so he’d relent… W/ the paddle, there just was no time…
a switch is a nasty torture device… especially if made to pick it out yourself.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
could we be the forth?
Carlos Beltran figures to agree to terms by Sunday. His market includes the Cardinals, Blue Jays, Red Sox and a fourth team, possibly the Rays. Beltran is weighing two and three-year offers, Brown reports.
Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough
I would be shocked… shocked, I say… if it were the Rays. I would be surprised if it’s us, but pleasantly so.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
Next offseason 40+ million
I say we go all in and sign Wright,Quentin, and resign Bourn then we would be unstoppable
what are the chances
that all this we are hearing about thinking the braves will move one or the other of Prado/JJ is total deception. This would be why:
To get maximum return, he needs to trade them separately.
If a team finds out he is only willing to make a trade if he trades both,
he will be in a weaker position to trade each.
But really, he should only do it if he can trade both.
Here’s why:
Not only would he get prospect hauls and awesome 4th OFs like Seth Smith,
but he would have actually freed up the money to sign Beltran.
With Smith on the Bench, he can afford the injury risk of Beltran
He would hope to get a low cost veteran SS back for JJ (or on the FA market)
CF Bourn
RF Heyward
3B Chipper
2B Uggla
C McCann
LF Beltran
1B Freeman
SS Pastornicky
I’m just gonna stop a second, and say that’s an amazing lineup.
Even if Pastornicky hits for scraps, he has speed at the bottom of the order, and none of those other guys need a word said about them.
Bench
C – Ross
1B – Hinske (LHBat off Bench
SS/2B – Veteran Signing (RH Bat or S)
4th OF – Smith (LHBat off Bench)
3B – Either SS/2B vet, a separate signing, or half way through the season Simmons
(Conrad could have been the 3B/2B backup if we didnt loose confidence in his fielding)
I’m gonna stop for another second, and say that’s an awesome bench. If Smith is our 4th OF, he is a great 4th OF, especially considering his proven prowess as a pinch hitter. We really would be looking for a RH bat off the bench to back up third.
If anyone is wondering, Smith made league minimum last year and is coming into his first arb year, so he should be inexpensive. Consider too that the SS vet we would be signing should be around a couple mil a year, we can go with the bullpen we have, and this is an affordable team….
IF he trades Prado AND JJ
IF he trades them separately
And I would really look forward to seeing who else he pulls into the system with Prado and JJ, an amazing CF prospect, a great 3B prospect…
No one is pointing to the Braves on Beltran, because it wouldn’t make sense unless they traded both Prado and JJ.
Anyone else seeing this picture?
simplified
If he trades Prado and JJ
He actually frees up enough money to get a FA that’s actually an upgrade over Prado
While getting shit tons of prospects and role players for JJ and Prado
more of the master plan
We pick up a 3B prospect
We pick up a CF prospect
Beltran is signed for three years probably (with a potentially backloaded contract)
No FA signings or trades are needed next off season. Period
If we get a premier 3B and premier CF prospect for JJ and Prado respectively, and by freeing up their contracts signs Beltran to a 3 year deal, we could, and here’s where it gets really rosterbatory…
CF – Rookie 2013
3B – Rookie 2013
SS – Rookie 2012
1B – Rookie 2011
RF – Rookie 2010
LF – Ideal Veteran
2B – Ideal Veteran (hard player etc.)
C – 28 in 2013
Delgado/Vizcaino/Minor – Rookie 2012/3
Teheran – Rookie 2012
Beachy – Rookie 2011
Hanson – 26 in 2013
Hudson – Ideal Veteran (potentially one of D/V/M takes his spot later after going to the pen)
Kimbrel – Rookie 2011
Venters – Rookie 2010
Oflahrety – 26
Medlen – Rookie
whoever
whoever
whoever
If we pull this off, really get elite prospects, and Pastornicky and/or Simmons is a legit SS prospect, then we are talking about having a cost controlled team we could keep together for years. McCann’s next big contract and probably Hanson’s as well will be finished before the next round of signings is required. We could pick and choose which young players to sign early. Uggla, Beltran, McCann, and Hudson would be our only really heavy contracts, and to be honest, they could all be at a good value.
by willlinn on Dec 21, 2011 3:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
See my signature.
End of statement.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 8:23 AM EST up reply actions
below the belt...
pretty sure I’ve seen you spew some even gushier rosterbatory posts than that one haha.
That said, come on…
Trade JJ and Prado = CF and 3B prospects + 4th OF/role players
Money is free to sign Beltran
It’s so tidy!
See... if you'd have just said that...
I wouldn’t have wondered if this was the rant of a high, delusional man… :-) That statement was so much more coherent. and it nicely summed up your post. :-D
You know I love ya man. Gotta give everyone an equally hard time… At least you can fight back… Unlike my nemesis ChopMaster… Poor kid. I still miss him and having him reinstated is on the top of my christmas wish list…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
yeah it's all cool
I couldn’t hate on anyone else that cares to dream of Braves Glory as much as I do.
And last night it hit me and I got carried away, if we look at these pieces separately nothing makes sense: Wheeler our new LF platooning with Diaz? we hope not. Freeing up money from Prado and JJ? What for if we are getting our LF back in a trade and looking for a cheap backup SS? Trading just JJ could make sense, to bring in prospects and pieces while a rookie pitches – he would likely have more value in the spring though, and we don’t need prospects before then. And trading Prado only makes sense if we can trade JJ as well to free up enough money to actually upgrade in LF over Prado (which isn’t easy). This could be accomplished through a trade for a superstar that would eat both their salaries (but then we wouldn’t get the prospects). Or, if it’s spent on a FA LF (like Beltran) we can focus on 2013+ needs in prospects through trade. In the end, I think this is the best thing FWren can do, and the whole thing has to happen for it to really be worth it. OTW, we might be better to keep JJ till the summer and not trade Prado. What’s so exciting is that we are already a team of rising stars, if we could bring in young stars to replace Chipper and Bourn while trading JJ and Prado, we solve all our problems at once. Not only do we fill the 2013+ holes with elite prospects, but we save the money to extend McCann and Hanson (later) Heyward and Freeman, while paying Hudson and Beltran (LF FA) to provide veteran presence as these rookies grow into aces and superstars.
The beauty is it seems you respond to yourself every post
often multiple times. Kind of a giveaway that you were stoned and either hit post too early or just wanted to keep rambling after hitting post.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I like to think about everything at once
And as I write more, I see more and more of the potential implications… Normally I hold off on posting, they get too huge, and I think about making them a fanpost.
by the way
recent mention of vizcaino as a reliever to start the season was interesting, I guess I’m hearing an argument that he is more valuable as a solidifier of the bullpen. With Medlen and Vizcaino behind O’Ventbrel, we really could keep their workload down and still have the best pen in baseball.
With Medlen in a long reliever role, and Minor/Delgado/Teheran competing for 2 spots, we have 2 better than average major league starting pitchers ready to backup potential injuries to Hanson and Hudson, and the injury risk of JJ would be gone.
So on the pitching end, I think rotation and pen will both be among the leagues best, with league leading individuals in the rotation and the pen. we would be good innings wise as well, rotation and pen.
If we can get 200 innings from hanson and hudson, 190 from beachy 180 for minor 160 from teheran, we should do fine. if not, we have a few other guys that could step in.
Vizcaino
Obviously, the Braves could deploy him as a force in the ML bullpen or stretch him out as a starter in either Mississippi or Gwinnett. Personally, I can see the benefits of going either way and have no prediction which way they go coming out of ST. I do have one definite opinion and that is he is virtually untouchable … the chances of FW dealing him are very close to zero.
The trade that didn't happen, part 1
The Braves made a run at Orioles outfielder Adam Jones earlier this month, according to Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun. Connolly reports that Atlanta offered Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado, and a pitching prospect for Jones, but the O’s “didn’t bite,” indicating how much they value their center fielder.
(MLBTR)
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
…and as gondee has just posted this as well, I’ll simply follow-up by saying two things under the assumption this is an accurate report:
1. What were the Braves thinking is offering that much?
2. What were the Orioles thinking in not taking it?
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
typo: “IN offering that much”
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
The trade that didn't happen, part deux
The Braves thought they might have been close to trading Jair Jurrjens to the Reds last weekend. But this potential deal died when the Reds instead sent Edinson Volquez and three of their top prospects to the Padres in exchange for Mat Latos.
Mark Bowman, via this link
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
Assuming we had no place for Alonso or Grandal
I wonder what we’d have gotten. None of the package the Padres would got would fit our needs except the relief arm Boxberger.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 21, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I thought that too… though supposedly the Reds were still checking it about JJ, so maybe it was an unrelated group. I just didn’t think we matched up.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
Off the boooooooard.... yes!
Reed Johnson – CUBS, 1 yr re-sign.
Andy LaRoche – INDIANS, minor league deal
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
Crazy - insane yet - idea... in the spirit of Krash's on-going desire for multi-team trades
…based on this tweet:
Bobby V also said on WEEI that he has not talked to Crawford directly, only via his agent. Um … that doesn’t sound good
Try this… which won’t happen, but I’m bored: Carl Crawford is due ~ $20/yr for the next six seasons. He also had a 0.9 WAR year in Boston for 2011, and there’s a new set of sheriffs in town there.
Braves get: Carl Crawford and approx. $40m overall (1/3rd of the monies due him through the life of the contract) and Tim Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon from the Rockies.
Rockies get: Martin Prado and Gearrin or Hoover
Red Sox get: Jair Jurrjens, Seth Smith, Matt Diaz (platoon duo), and Todd Redmond. Then they turn around and put a full-court press on to get Carlos Beltran for 3 yrs., figuring him for DH duty at the end.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
I'm in.
Where do I sign up for this level of awesome lunacy…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Check with the Red Sox. After all, they hired Valentine.
"Sir Stealth, Stay stealth.. Your a moron" (jrod1142), 12/15/11 (the epic FWren Fortitude FanPost)
"Now if you somehow talked the Diamondbacks into throwing in Stephen Drew in that deal [with Justin Upton]… then I’d be in the line w/ justin and whoever else w/ my knee pads on." - Klemson Krash, 12/20/2011
I prefer not to talk about the Red Sox any further...
The could have given us Lowrie and I would have been happy… Heck, we could have even sent them a bag of balls and maybe even a batting practice machine… it would have been a bigger haul than they got…
Le sigh…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
With the White Sox rebuilding,
any takers on Alexi Ramirez? Too expensive? Would give Pastornicky more time…
I like Alexi but if the FO feels Pasty is ready...
Why give him more time? Maybe an early season acquisition… but not before Pasty fails.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
It'd be great if Pastornicky is ready.
I’m just afraid that their definition of “ready” pertains to only to defense and that they expect the kind of offense that they got from Jordan Schafer the first time he was called up (pre-mclouth). I don’t want him batting eighth and striking out once or twice a game. He only has 27 games at AAA, and is 22 years old.
I just prefer to think of how "ready" Heyward, Freeman, Delgado, Kimbrel, Venters, Medlen, etc were... :-)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
if Wren gets Arenado from Colorado, I’ll give him a BJ.
by Scott Coleman on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 21, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
forget that
Trade Prado for a CF prospect.
Trade for Alexi, play him at SS.
Put Uggla in LF
Put Pastornicky at 2B.
Our Middle Infield defense becomes amazing.
by drumzalicious on Dec 21, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Uggla in LF sounds like the makings of a sitcom.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Left Uggly
Dan in Real Left
Armed and Left For Dead
nothing too good yet, but it’s a work in progress
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Dec 21, 2011 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
it's the 3rd time he's suggested it
and each time it gets more and more asinine.
he thinks it’s “easy” to play LF on the ML level and that any hack can do it.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 22, 2011 5:23 AM EST up reply actions
Carlos Lee
Adam Dunn
Garret Anderson
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
What is “Proof that not any hack can do it.”
I’m so good at Jeopardy!
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
If they could get playing time for their bat, so could Uggla. For what its worth I bet Uggles could provide near league average D in LF.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
Maybe after a year or two at LF if he gets comfortable. I personally think he would still be below average, but perhaps with experience he could become decent, you at least know he is going to work his ass off.
. But the two main problems with Ugglas defensive game (range and arm) are amplified while his decent hands are diminished in importance by the move. Definitely not a formula for success.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
I dont see why,
we just trade a haul for Arenado
Arenado
Smith
for
Prado
JJ
simple and easy.
even put in Lipka if needed
Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.
i know this is a overpay, but It would allow a beltran signing and a future star 3b.
Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.
by BravosFanatic on Dec 22, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
The Rockies are not trading Arenado. Period.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yeah
I see that its gonna take alot, but why not try your hardest for him.
Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.
by BravosFanatic on Dec 22, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Because it would be like trying your hardest for Jason Heyward circa 2008.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
touche good sir touche
Christina Kahrl wrote an article praising a Braves player. Clearly she wants to get fired from ESPN.
by BravosFanatic on Dec 22, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
ummmm, no
Heyward, circa 2008, was the #1 prospect in baseball. Arenado’s not even top-10 at the moment.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 24, 2011 4:39 AM EST up reply actions
No he wasn't...
He was ranked 28th by BA pre-2008. Arenado will likely find himself in that same range. Heyward wasn’t ranked first until 2010, his rookie season.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
i'm glad you're here to clarify all things Rockie related. Are you Dan O'Dowd's pool boy or something?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Dec 24, 2011 4:39 AM EST up reply actions
Gio to the Nationals.
Let the bidding for JJ commence. Hope the Red Sox and Yankees offer some good pieces.
So
The Cubs are apparently in full on rebuild mode. Wish Castro was on the list players to be traded
Any Marlon Byrd takers??
Cubs are apparently going for a full rebuild, he’s a one-year piece that could really, really solidify the OF for the upcoming season. He can play CF when Bourn needs an off-day, he can move to LF when Prado spells Chipper. RH, no platoon split except for a SLG bump against LHP.
He’s kind of expensive ($6.5MM), but not so expensive that the club couldn’t absorb most of the salary, if the $5-7.5MM remaining money theory is correct. If it’s less than that, the Cubs would be more than willing to kick in salary for a better return.
This move would cover the Braves in event of injuries and allows Prado to regain his value on the trade market.
What do you think, package w/ Spruill or Perez at its center, something like that?? Tough loss for one year of return, but it makes the 2012 team considerably better. Good pitchers, but it’s a distinct possibility that neither will ever see the big league club because of the guys ahead of them in the system.
Same starting lineup, essentially, with a bench of Hinske, Ross, Byrd, Diaz (maybe sent in the deal to cover the salary concerns??), SS/UT TBD. If Diaz goes, maybe that spot goes back to Conrad or another utility-type guy.
Yes, no maybe??
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Byrd deserves to start somewhere. He’s too good to be a backup just yet.
Freeman isn’t on Heyward’s level in terms of tools, skills, or baseball IQ–but it’s fair to say Freeman has failed to meet the modest expectations in place for him - Capitol Avenue Club (May 28th, 2011)
I actually love the idea. Marlon Byrd averaged 2.489 PA/G last year in his 119 games. Prado’s very nature makes him a hybrid of the starter/back-up especially with the potentially fragile situation in Chipper/Heyward. I imagine that you can sell him on the fact that a combination of starter/back-up/pinch-hitter will make him a major contributor in the success of the Braves.
But with that said, his decline in power is a bit concerning because 2011’s SLG% of .395, while still above his career mark of .420, is below last year’s .429 clip, and in fact seems to indicate that his brief display of power (2007-2009, these years really weigh his career slg heavily and have trended downward drastically since) might be over. Given the recent down-ward trend the 2007-2009 years of great play might be behind him. Even if you don’t believe that there is a regression, those years, in the bigger picture, seem the exception not the rule.
However, if we can get some salary relief on that front, the money saved from Lowe would off-set this acquisition, pretty much making us flush unless our SS plans go awry or barring any trade-deadline acquisition.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Jai Miller
DFA’d by the Athletics, he’s RH, has some power and can play CF, we’ve got the 40 man roster spot open, he could be worth a pickup and a chance to make the team in Spring Training.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Why aren’t we in on Andruw right now? He’d be a cheap upgrade over Diaz, could play CF in a pinch, and while not a great OBP guy, has some pop vs LHP still.
He’d also be cheap, prob $2mil to get.
Much better option then Seth Smith.
If we need to free up money, trade JJ for prospects, it can be justified as a baseball trade given how deep our starting pool is (though that can wait until the deadline)
I think we can afford $2mil, and Andruw would bring in half that back in merch.
Diaz could likely be traded for a PTBNL.
i dont even get the sense that the Braves could afford a league minimum player without moving someone.
by drumzalicious on Dec 27, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
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