Tuesday Morning Non-Tender Talk
by gondeee on Dec 13, 2011 8:29 AM EST
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The Atlanta Braves quietly non-tendered reliever Peter Moylan last night. A move that was expected, as the Aussie right-hander is recovering from a season-ending shoulder injury. Moylan was a durable and quality reliever for the Braves, and there is a good chance he will return to Atlanta at a reduced salary. Though with the demand for relievers out there, I would imagine that some team will be willing to pay more for the chance at Moylan's services than the Braves seem willing to give him.
Peter let everyone know the news last night through his twitter account:
I suppose the good news is that at least the tweet says "Manana," instead of "hasta la vista." I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I hope Moylo is back in Atlanta next year.
There were some other interesting non-tenders around baseball that might interest the Braves. The first guy that caught my eye was middle infielder Ryan Theriot, who was non-tendered by the Cards. He may be looking for more full-time work, but he's really just a utility guy, and one that can play shortstop. He'd be a very good compliment to the rookie Tyler Pastornicky, who the Braves hope to work into a full-time role this year. Another non-tender middle infielder who could fill that role is Jeff Keppinger.
Right-handed pitcher Micah Owings is a pitcher who could interest the Braves. In addition to being a Georgia native and a former Georgia Tech player, his brother, Jon Mark, was a long-time farm hand of the Braves. Micah could be a good bullpen addition (even though Atlanta appears to be set in the pen).
I've always been a Ryan Spilborghs fan, though the Braves are probably set at the outfield pinch-hitter position.
The Braves have some moves still left to make. Chiefly among them is filling the backup shortstop position. There were already three open spots on the 40-man roster before Moylan was non-tendered, now there are four. I honestly can't remember the last time the Braves had four open spots on their 40-man roster, AND had a rule 5 player on there. Weird off-season.
UPDATE
The Braves also non-tendered Brooks Conrad, the team announced this morning at 9:22am. Both Peter Moylan and Conrad are now free agents. Contracts were tendered to Prado, O'Flaherty, Jurrjens, and Bourn. I guess this makes my article yesterday on Conrad kind of a moot point. I wonder if the team wants to go in a completely different direction (likely), or if they want to try and re-sign Conrad for less money, or even a minor league deal.
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micah owings.
If he is the guy I’m thinking of he really rakes. I’d pick him up and give him a shot at the lf spot. he hits really well.
by ashendry on Dec 13, 2011 8:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Just imagine how many advil Fredi’s going to quaff trying to figure that one out.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Micah Owings is number 1 on my non-tender list...
I love the guy. He’s selfless and will do whatever his team asks… for those who don’t remember, he’s actually a starting pitcher with some decent talent who turned middle reliever when he had an ineffective spell… dude can hit and I bet he’s athletic enough to be a Ankiel type… Wonder if there’s been talk of moving him to a position. Anyone know?
Additionally, Theroit is second on my list as I think he’d be ideal on our bench… he’s 31 with a ton of versatility… could alleviate the pain of a Prado move as well… He’s ok on the stick and will move around on the bases better than keppinger (who didn’t attempt a steal last year) and defensively seems a little more sure handed and didn’t hurt his team whereas Keppinger produce – WAR… I know there are other stats but that’s just my opinion.
Rich Hill is another person on my shopping list as I remember his time w/ the Cubs and I think w/ the right coaching, he could be amazing again. Call me crazy and I know we have pitching for days but there’s something about this guy that just screams for the right coach to get ahold of him.
Anyone know the name Chris Gimenez? He’s a Mariner non-tender and his versatility is intriguing… He’s a backup OF, C, 1B… Don’t know where he’d fit in our system but could be better than JC Boscan? thoughts… Last prospective question… Cole Garner… Any thoughts on him? minor stats inflated due to being in colorado?
Oh and of course, Moylan needs to have a tomahawk across his chest… Love the guy and I hope we have room for him.
I vow to not talk Tebow today… at least here.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
I'd be all for
a “riot” in our infield…think he’d fit in better than any other free agent out there.
Rich Hill is recovering from TJ surgery, not sure about much else on him.
Moylan with the ATL just seems right.
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
What if Tebow wills Moylan to re-sign with the Braves?
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
If it's meant to be... it will be...
I will not be sucked into your evil trap.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
Still trying to figure out how Tebow didn’t win the Heisman again on Saturday.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
by carpengui on Dec 13, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He put all his mojo into winning NFL games... he's transcended the college game.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Same reason MJ didn’t win the MVP every year.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure how I feel about making Tebow into the new Chuck Norris. He definitely hasn’t earned such an honor yet.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
have you seen his roundhouse kick?
then how do you know…….
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s the point.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I really hope we get something worked out where we can keep Moylan
As far as some of the utility IF types, I would love to see Keppinger playing for the Braves, although I think him, Theriot, and Punto would all be good fits, and rather interchangeable when it comes down to it. Theriot has played the most SS of the 3, but his D leaves something to be desired.
I don’t really see us as a good fit for Micah Owings. Even though he’s from ATL, I think we have better options currently in our system, who would all be making league minimum. The novelty of his bat would be a nice luxury to have, but I don’t know that we have a spot on the roster for him.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Random thoughts here.
The Moylan non-tender was not a surprise at all. Hopefully, he will be back, and I think he will; while other teams want relief help, his injury question marks should scare them away.
As for Micah Owings, he did play at Georgia Tech, but then wised up and transferred to Tulane, where he led them to the CWS (which they lost, of course, my poor Wave never really wins anything except about 2 football games a year). As a pitcher, he’s AAAA; not enough stuff to make it as a starter, better as a long man, just doesn’t miss enough bats. As a hitter, he’s also pretty much AAAA. He’s a fun guy to try to use in a 25th man offense/defense role ala that guy from Milwaukee a few years back (name escapes me at that moment), but that’s about it.
As for the infielders, Keppinger is the better hitter, but he’s really stretching it at short, and we don’t need a 3B/2B backup with Prado still here. Theriot can’t hit as well, but he’s a league average shortstop defensively, and is one of the many reasonable options out there for backup SS.
I'm pretty sure...
…Brooks Kieschnick is the guy you’re thinking of in Milwaukee.
The Owings idea is for me, not such a bad idea. Of course, much of what we do with the bench depends on whether or not Prado stays.
"Why do they sing 'Take Me Out To The Ballgame' when they're already there?'" - Larry Andersen
http://www.sbnation.com/users/HailStonz/edit_profile
Guess that settles the debate from yesterday. Adios, Brooksey
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
There was a debate???
All I noticed was talk about Tebow and the NFL in the Conrad discussion…
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
FTFY
All I noticed was a few posts about Conrad in the Tebow/NFL discussion…
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Tebow willed us to talk about him on a baseball site
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
someone was talking about overexposure yesterday...
I think you’re propogating it a bit much…
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the fix!
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
And the discussion of if he had remaining options
because if he did, you keep him and can stash him in AAA until needed. Without them, he’s a possible cut anyway so why wait.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
That would have kept him on the 40 man though
DOB hinted at by going this route, they can sign him to a minor league deal with a ST invite, and still have a spot open on the 40 man
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
But why wouldn't you cut Hicks off the 40 before him?
Or Constanza, Diaz, Luis Avilan, Jaye Chapman?
It’s not like any of those guys, especially Hicks or Diaz, bring any more to the roster, and wouldn’t be in a similar clear waivers, give them a ST invite type situation.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think several of those guys would get claimed.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 13, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
If Diaz got claimed, would that be bad?
Chapman might, maybe Constanza, but Hicks, who’s proven time and again he’s pure no bat, only glove? Or Avilan, who’s had one less than solid season in AA and can’t K 7 guys oper 9 at that level?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
No, I don’t think that would be bad. What would be bad is when he isn’t claimed and elects to become a FA with the Braves paying his salary.
As for the others, I’m pretty meh on most of them. I think Chapman or Constanza get claimed. Obviously the Braves don’t want to risk losing them, though, so I’ll withhold judgment on it. Could come down to Conrad not having options while the others did.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Diaz and Hinske are actually some of the better PH options available in baseball
I think Constanza and Hicks are favored over Conrad bc of the uncertainty of the backup SS/INF and CF/OF roles we have yet to fill… It’s all speculation though. Conrad also the oldest of the bunch, which might play into it to some degree. Diaz doesn’t really count bc he’s already under contract for next year- we would have to put him on waivers to get rid of him.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
After last year, disagree on Diaz
your SS/CF comments re Hicks and Constanza are agreeable, although I doubt Hicks means that much or should even be in the conversation at all anymore.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Diaz still went 12-49 pinch hitting last year, and is 52-199 in his career
I think Hicks time w the Braves has run its course, and I think this year will be his last. They may keep him to fill the spot for the G Braves at AAA, just so they have a body for this season, but once Simmonds is ready to move up, Hicks will be pushed aside.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Simmons likely won’t be in AAA for long, so they’ll still need a backup SS.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
hard to see us wasting a 40 man spot on a AAA backup IF at that point
once Simmons would be ready to come up and need a 40 man spot, I think Hicks would def be gone
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
In some ways, non-tendered is the easier option to get the guys back because they’re automatically FA, i.e. they can’t be taken by another team without their approval.
So, if they intend to come back, non-tendering would be the way to go, rather than leaving the player out there for anyone to grab.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Dec 13, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Pretty sure he's out of options
I remember this discussion coming up last year; we could either keep Conrad on the roster or have him go through waivers.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Yes, I think so.
He had his first option year in Oakland in 2008. Then with us in 09 and 10.
He never played in the minors for us in 2010, so unless something unusual happened no Option was used.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
He's out of options
I see several mentions of this in news articles online. All I can think (can’t find a way to confirm this) is that he was on the 40-man roster for the Astro’s in 2007, even though he was never called up.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Who’s saying he’s got options? I recall it coming up last off season that he still had options and he was on the MLB roster the entire season. DOB also said he still had an option remaining in his AJC Blog from a few hours ago, FWIW.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
Here is the article that I saw, and it seems to be what the other articles in the list are pulling from (damn splogs).
But, that article could be mistaken. I’d lean more towards believing DOB (and Bowman, actually; I found an article from ST this year where he talks about potentially starting Conrad in Gwinnett, which he probably wouldn’t consider if Conrad didn’t have options).
That makes the move to non-tender him all the more interesting, though.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
But, interesting...
According to this article from his alma mater, Conrad was on Houston’s 40-man in 2007. This would make my above guess seem true; 2008-10 were his 3 option years.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Even if he’s on the 40-man, I don’t think it counts as an option used unless he spends time on the major league club.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 14, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
My reading of the rules
is that if he’s on the 40-man and plays at least 20 games in the minors, it counts as an option year – even if he never moved to the bigs.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
But if he's on the 25 man all year, it doesn't count as an option year?
thus preserving his option last year and perhaps the year before?
Am I correct in pulling that (the header) from what you and Lennox are saying?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 14, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Correct.
Although that’s not really the full picture. A player could be in the minors for as many as 19 games and it not count as an option year. Obviously 0 isn’t more than 19, so the situation you describe (what Conrad experienced in ‘10 and ’11, being on the 25-man all year) wouldn’t count as an option year.
So, the way I see it, one of the following is true:
1) Conrad was on the Astro’s 40-man roster for less than 20 games in 2007. This means that he has one option year left, and the baseball prospectus article I cited above is inaccurate in stating that Conrad is out of options. It also means that the move to non-tender him is strange, unless for some reason we really needed that spot on the 40-man and didn’t want him to go through waivers.
2) Conrad was on the Astro’s 40-man roster for more than 20 games in 2007. This means he’s had all 3 of his option years (combined with ‘08 and ’09). This means that DOB and Bowman are mistaken about whether or not he had options available, and makes non-tendering him the right move if we’re pretty sure he won’t fit on the 25-man for 2012.
3) Conrad was never on the Astro’s 40-man roster in 2007. This means that the article I cited above by his alma mater is inaccurate, as is the baseball prospectus article, and Conrad still has an option remaining. See option 1 for implications.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Color me lazy...
that and I’m at work, but what’s UZR like on Keppinger compared to Theriot? Much of a difference? Thanks in advance.
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
Theriot – 4,454 innings at SS UZR of -5.1
Keppinger – 1,397 innings at SS UZR of -12.4
You guys sure you want these fellas?
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
I think there are better options out there
but for what we’re willing to pay, I think one of these guys, or someone similar we have yet to mention will be what we end up with.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Jack Wilson – 10,868 innings at SS UZR of 40.2
AHEM….
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
Yeah, and if we’re talking about a backup position, offense is probably a secondary consideration anyway… I really liked what we saw out of Wilson late last year.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
I think it has to be more than just strictly a backup guy though
for the simple fact that if Pastornicky struggles early in the year at the plate, we’re going to want someone that can hit too as a fall back plan
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Well, that guy simply doesn’t exist on the FA market. I mean, he did, but he’ll play in Miami this year.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
I think he’ll have a pretty long leash — after all, look at the production for the guy he’s replacing. The more important thing (for me, at least) is whether he can do a major league defensive job.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
I saw him twice last year in the AFL, once at 2B and once at SS. My impressions were he could be a GG 2B and an adequate SS. Has extremely good hands, and good range, but a weak arm for SS. He did seem to be a smart player though and positioned himself well to be where the ball was going. Seemed like whenever a ball was hit to him he was already there and didn’t even have to move.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
That was pretty much my assessment as well (seeing him only in a AA uniform at SS). Not a lot of power in the arm – accurate, but the ball floated a bit. Offensively, I apparently caught him in a slump, as he rolled multiple balls in the infield — one now owned by my youngest daughter after an E4.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
wouldn’t that be the easiest thing to work on though, increasing his arm strength… I’d rather him be smart and positioned well, you can fix a weak arm
by SuperHeyward on Dec 13, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
You can increase arm strength a bit, but not that much. For example, a pitcher increases his arm strength throughout the season, but there’s only a 1-2mph bump to the fastball.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm, I guess I’m thinking like he’s a high schooler, I suppose what ever strength training is possible has already been applied
by SuperHeyward on Dec 13, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
And I'd assume it comes from increased lower body and core strength
more than chest/arms.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Dec 13, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Well, whatever muscles the pitcher uses to throw the ball are strengthened, so the point stands.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
In my experience
As far as arm strength goes in the baseball world, you’re either born with an arm or you’re not.
Now core strength, proper mechanics, maturity, steroids, can all increase the strength to a degree, but not enough to make say a C+ arm an A.
You’ve probably only got a half-grade to improve, full-grade tops.
Some people are blessed with a Francoeurian hose, and some people aren’t.
Wait for it…
https://twitter.com/#!/kreese555
That’s basically what I was getting at.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thought so, and to piggyback on to your thoughts, any significant increase in arm strength for Pastornicky aside from steroid use, is probably wishful thinking.
Once these prospects reach the age of maturity varying anywhere from 20-24, that C+ grade (my out of nowhere estimation at TP’s arm) isn’t going to magically jump to an A. Just not gonna happen.
https://twitter.com/#!/kreese555
I’m certainly no athletic trainer, but I know I have weak shoulders — never been able to do push-ups to any degree, for instance. Thought that tennis might help strengthen that a bit. No – the more I worked on it, the more I wrecked that shoulder.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
I could see that, but his isn’t injury related is it?
by SuperHeyward on Dec 13, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
No, I just have this preconceived notion that arm strength has its limits. I’d very much like to be wrong, though.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
I guess so, my body type never made me feel like I could be a body builder, but at the same time I never did 1000+ push ups a day so maybe I could have been
by SuperHeyward on Dec 13, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Most of your power for sports is going to come from the core, anyway
so I’m not sure that matters too much.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Tennis is an awful sport to try to jump into with a sore shoulder. A lot of over the head, quick movements. The only way to strengthen it without doing damage is physical therapy
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Dec 13, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Fun to watch if nothing else.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
awesome...
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
or if they want to try and re-sign Conrad for less money,
Pretty sure he made the league minimum last year.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
your point?
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
I mean, I guess we could try to get him for the league minimum again. What kind of raise would he expect in arbitration?
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
Don’t think he was even eligible for Arb.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
I was just stating
that really, unless it’s a minor league deal, would/should Conrad be back on the team…in a very sarcastic style! ha.
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
it’s a move that allows the Braves to sign him to a minor league deal and allow the team to shuffle him back and forth to the minor (otherwise he is out of option)
by LEastCoastBears on Dec 13, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Wanna know why the Cards went out and traded for Furcal mid-year?
… despite Theriot’s .271 average? DRS: Defensive Runs Saved. -12 in just a half-season’s worth of innings. That’s equivalent to costing your team a run per week at the critical defensive position of SS. Not good.
Oh, and he was also a Vidro machine — 15 GDP in about 2/3rds of a season worth of plate appearances.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
we would be going from one end of the spectrum to the other in the span of a year as far as D goes
and we just got rid of a vidro/K/INF popup machine. The more I hear and look at Theriot, the less I want to do with him… so he’ll prob be signed here soon
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Just for contrast purposes...
Ryan Theriot DRS: -12 over 83 games-equivalent at SS.
Alex Gonzalez DRS: +15 over 146 games-equivalent at SS.
That’s kinda like starting every other game against St. Louis with a 1-0 lead just due to the play of the shortstops (which you kinda needed against their offense, but…).
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
And we still got swept. :'(
Although I guess by then they had Fookie.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Luke Scott might be interesting
I know he’s not a great fielder, I know he bats Lefty, I know he was hurt last year (likely the only reason he was non-tendered), but he probably should get some discussion since he’s been a pretty consistent 800-900 OPS guy.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
can he play CF?
I am too lazy to look right now.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
can he play CF?
I am too lazy to look right now.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
but i'm good at it!
and I want my point heard. dang it. :-)
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
can he play CF?
I am too lazy to look right now.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
His splits aren’t too bad against lefties though: .240/.318/.469/.787
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Luke Scott
Is trouble in the clubhouse…
by TomahawkGuy on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think he’d fit in great with guys like Chipper, Huddy, etc.
I just don’t see why we would sign him when we already have ’Ske
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
To start in LF?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
so go in LF from Prado to a Luke Scott/Diaz platoon? I'll pass
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Luke Scott/Prado platoon.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that was dumb... still leaves us without a backup CF and SS
for only 1 roster spot left though, so unlikely
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Sign a backup SS and let Heyward play backup CF for a while.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I might be comfortable with that
but it doesn’t seem like the Braves view Heyward as anything more than an emergency situation for CF, and therefore unlikely they go without a more proven CF type player on the bench… Who knows though?
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Not sure why we need more than an emergency CFer right now. Bourn played all but 4 games last year and all but 5 in ’09. Even in ’10 he only missed 21 games.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think I would be fine with Heyward as a backup, and keep Constanza in AAA and call him up if need be. The hypothetical has been posed, if Bourn has to miss a week or so, what do we do… Many here are fine with Heyward, but it just sounds like something the braves people aren’t comfortable doing for whatever reason
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
You can always get creative with the DL and the pen to make room for a guy for a few days. If Meds is in the pen you could even send CMart down for a week.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
If Meds is in the pen you could even send CMart down for a week.
How are CMart and his options doing?? I’m guessing he’s out, or close to out.
It’s a lot of finagling. The team needs a back-up CF.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Again, if Bourn plays 156 games, we could easily worry about a backup CFer later in the season if at all.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
my mind jumped to the conclusion that we would be trading Prado in that situation
clearly not the scenario presented
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
From a recent article...
The Orioles are also concerned. The team had distanced itself from Scott’s Obama comments and had a conversation with Scott and his agent asking Scott to refrain from sharing his views while representing the organization.
[+] Enlarge
Steve Guyot/ESPN
Scott with his father, David, center, and extended family.
A longtime family friend who is Scott’s financial adviser will wind up supervising the house visit, for the most part keeping watch but at least once pulling Scott aside to quietly remind him to take care when he discusses other races.
by TomahawkGuy on Dec 13, 2011 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
He’ll be fast friends with Roger McDowell then……….too soon?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Have you heard the 'stories'...
About him here in B’more?
by TomahawkGuy on Dec 13, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I had not – but I’m getting educated… pass.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
Not a player...
whom you’d line up with your kid to get an autograph from.
by TomahawkGuy on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
And while I'm all for the second ammendment...here's Part II
At his offseason home, Scott has a safe room that holds most of his weapons, ammunition, memorabilia and even ready-to-eat meals. When we’re there a few weeks later, his adviser won’t allow me to see it. Scott listens to him.
“It’s a privilege,” he says. “You can see my guns at my apartment. The safe room is a special place. … It’s good to have a safe room in your house. It’s storm-proof; we’ve got food, store supplies, all kinds of stuff.”
As we leave for the gun range, Scott stuffs a pistol into the side of the sofa cushion.
by TomahawkGuy on Dec 13, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I bet Chipper would love that.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
I haven’t. Just thought he was kind of a good ol’ boy.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
He sometimes comes across as a good ol' boy...
But he’s no Chipper or Huddy…I think Heyward would rip his face off by the All Star break.
by TomahawkGuy on Dec 13, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t find any articles about why the man’s a bad clubhouse guy…
anyway. I don’t want a platoon guy who K’d in 25% of his at-bats last year and couldn’t cut it with Baltimore.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
And, who is really...
…a DH. I don’t agree with anything resembling Scott’s beliefs, but that isn’t the reason not to sign him. The fact that he wouldn’t help our club is.
I disagree...
When you are with a team of guys from Feb. to October, you need someone with some semblance of character. You should hear how happy the O’s are that he’s outta here.
BOO
#rockies are making a push for carlos beltran. they also made an offer to cuddyer. want 1 or the other.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Not missing Conrad
At 13 for 62 as a pinch hitter (.210) it can hardly be argued that he’ll be missed although he did hit 3 homers in that role and that’s worth something although not really enough to offset the 13 for 62 thing. 2011 was his chance to redeem himself and he failed. Time to move on. Bringing him back would be a big mistake in my opinion.
you do realize the league average for a pinch hitter last year was only .214?
You make it seem like he was terrible at it, which simply isn’t true. In fact, Hinske was only 9-56 pinch hitting. The fact is pinch hitting is a very tough job. Conrad won’t be back because he can’t play the field anywhere, whereas Hinske can play 1B and a little LF.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
People really don’t realize how difficult PHing really is. Most of the time you’re coming in late in the game against the other team’s best relievers after sitting on the bench for about 2.5 hours.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
This is one of the reasons I favor Jeff Keppinger over Theriot or Punto
Keppinger has one of the best Strike Out/AB ratio’s in all of MLB: the guy puts the ball in play a lot. In fact, if he qualified based on at-bats, he would have finished ahead of every NL player that did qualify on that stat. Reyes lead the league at 13.1 AB/SO. Prado was 4th in the NL at 10.6. Keppinger was at 15.8 AB/SO last year, and for his career is at 14.6. By comparison, Theriot is at 8.6, and Punto is at 1.6. League avg is 4.7. For some Braves bench comparisons, Diaz was at 4.4, Hinske at 3.3, and Conrad at 2.5
Obviously this doesn’t perfectly translate to guarantee hits, but when we have a guy coming off the bench to PH late in the game, I would at least like to see them put it in play over striking out. It does bear out somewhat in their PH stats though. Keppinger is 12-42 in his career as a PH, Theriot 10-49, Punto 11-50.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
he never Ks, but he also never walks… so….
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
he puts the ball in play.
I like it. The more pitches you see, aggravating pesky hitters are great additions to any club.. DeNorfia comes to mind.
The poster formally known as SidGlaus
He doesn't see many pitches at all.
3.44 pitches/PA last year, which would tie him for 297th in all of baseball with hack artist Vernon Wells.
People routinely conflate a whole bunch of things that have nothing to do with each other. Strikeouts are no worse than regular outs. “Putting the ball in play” may allow you to sneak a few more groundballs through the hole, or it may cause you to hit into a few more double plays. Rely on data, not platitudes.
Here, let's put it in even better perspective.
Alex Gonzalez saw 3.53 pitches per plate appearance last year. Alex Gonzalez.
for his career Kep at 3.61, Theriot at 3.69
They really have very little that separate them. Theriot a bit more patient at the plate, and higher OBP, Keppinger higher contact and a higher OPS.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Kep doesn’t play short, I don’t know why we’re even talking about him.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
he can play short, but is prob better served at 2B
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
He’s started 13 games at short over the last three years. and he sucked at it. He’s not a shortstop.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
you may be right, but Theriot is not some defensive specialist either
This wouldn’t be an issue if we had got Pujols, Kemp, and Reyes. We’d have been all set
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Ha. Wren should be fired!!
I’m not in favor of signing either Kep or Theriot. My idea was resigning Seabass and having an open competition in Orlando, but that’s gone. Now I hope we just sign the best glove available for a backup spot and hope Pastor can hit MLB pitching.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
I liked the re-sign Sea Bass concept, but was not up for offering him arbitration
Apparently all we were willing to offer was a 1 year deal, and he got a 1 year plus some sort of option in Milwaukee, so you certainly can’t blame him for taking it. If we KNEW Pastornicky would hit, I’d be for the best glove guy not named Jack Wilson, but not knowing, I feel like we have to hedge a bit and go after a Theriot/Kep… plus we also have Hicks as a solid glove guy in an emergency pinch should something real bad and unforeseen happen
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Holy Lord, we’d better hope Tyler can hit.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
In keeping with the theme from yesterday
Tebow can will him to hit
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
For a PH taking walks is a bonus, but you mostly want them to hit the ball.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Mostly.
Depends on the situation, though. There’s value in just taking the walk if nobody’s on, for example.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Knew this was going to come up....
Theriot BB% 8.1, Keppinger 6.8. Lg Avg 8.5. I think they’re very similar players- Kep with a hbit igher contact rate, Theriot with a bit higher OBP. I do know that Theriot has a reputation as being a very bad baserunner, not so much in the area of stolen bases, but attempting to take an extra base and getting thrown out, and not getting a good read on balls hit while he’s on base. I’ll admit I know very little about Keppinger’s baserunning abilities.
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Random thoughts on these topics.
There is sort of a continum of backup SS options: Punto/Wilson — Theriot — Keppinger. That order is from best to worst fielders and also from worst to best hitters. None of them are that good or they would get starting SS gigs. Which we want is a matter of taste, really. I doubt it matters that much.
As for pinch-hitting; yes the league average isn’t very good. For obvious reasons: 1) they often face good relievers and 2) if they were actually good hitters, they would have starting jobs and not be pinch-hitting.
We keep saying "backup" SS options
so we’re all going with the Pasty as starting SS idea? I’d rather not personally.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
We don’t really seem to have a choice in the matter, but I agree with you.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Fookie, I was gonna say
before checking mlbtr for more and seeing he agreed on a 2 yr deal with St Louis.
Of course, there is always the chance we pick up the phone, call Kevin Towers, and ….
http://sportsandgrits.com/
You must really like baseball.
'There are two pains in life. There is the pain of discipline and the pain of disappointment. If you can handle the pain of discipline, then you'll never have to deal with the pain of disappointment,'- Nick Saban
We should let him play right field for us.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
I think that's the course of action that has been decided on, regardless of what we want
also DOB just now suggesting the Braves will be going after Punto
DFA Heyward. I'm dead serious
by wpf3211 on Aug 6, 2011 9:11 PM EDT
Keppinger
I’d like to see Kepp if the price is Right.
Just sign Prince Fielder to play short stop..
I’m sure his bat will negate the ill effects of his poor defense at short…jusss sayin..
The poster formally known as SidGlaus
Actually, he'd be an excellent defensive SS.
He takes up so much space, no balls would ever get through.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I was just about to post that — with the variation that the Giants oughta put him on the left side of their infield for the same reason.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
seriously..could you imagine watching prince play any outfield position..
I hope this happens eventually somehow late in the innings of a game or something crazy..just so i can see him have to cover like 75 yards to track a ball down..
The poster formally known as SidGlaus
Wow, imagine him and Panda. Not sure you’d even need a 2B.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
no you'd need the base..just not the player at 2nd.
lol had to..
The poster formally known as SidGlaus
You wouldn't need the rest of the infield.
The gravitational pull alone would be enough to ensure that the ball went to one or the other. Just have the pitcher run to cover the throw to first and have 5 guys roaming the outfield.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
hahahaha
The image of this in my head is perfection
by SuperHeyward on Dec 13, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Good point, though the pitchers better be all be righty — if he falls off the mound towards third, he might not be able to escape the pull himself in order to reach first safely.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
Doesn't really matter
Right-handed batters are also going to get slowed down, so you can save some time that way.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
True this… and they’ll NEVER get past second base.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
It just depends on your frame of reference
To us they’ll slow down to a crawl as they approach second. To them, everyone in the stadium will grow old and die and hundreds of years will pass by in the time it takes them to reach the bag.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
TWSS?
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
smh.... just... ugh... I'm walking away.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Come on...
that had to have been better than previous attempts…right?
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
TWSS
ok, after that I’ll stop posting it.
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
you can't TWSS you're own writing... it... ugh... smh
I’m packing my bags and going home now…. I’m trying so hard not to ChopMaster you… but… you’re making it too easy…
See y’all tomorrow.
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
ok, after that I’ll stop posting it.
FTFY
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 13, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I wondered when we’d get that.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
happy to oblige
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
Moylan Quote
(as tweeted from DO’B):
“Was expecting the [non-tender] move. Hoping we can work out something to stay a Brave.”So do we, Pete.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!
PeMo is the epitome of what it is to be a Brave… he’ll do what needs to be done so long as we’re reasonable!
In the body of other posts, I am often admittedly high and tend to not want to edit a lot.
by willlinn on Dec 2, 2011 12:01 PM PST
by Klemson Krash on Dec 13, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Keppinger and PeMo!
Braves, (NHL and NFL) Jets, Bruins, Celtics, and Whitecaps FC fan! Just one of God's mystical creatures, a big sports fan.
Twitter: @jrodisjust2cool
by jrodisjust2cool on Dec 13, 2011 4:05 PM EST reply actions
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