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The Trade Market For Atlanta Braves Starting Pitcher Jair Jurrjens

Braves starting pitcher Jair Jurrjens could be the most attractive trade target this winter.

This tweet from baseball writer (and insider?) Jon Heyman is making the rounds:

Braves seek greinke like deal for jurrjens. Can't blame 'em. Teams that could play include col nyy tex kc bos tor balt cubs

For those unfamiliar with the Greinke deal, last year the Royals sent former Cy Young winner Zack Greinke and shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt to the Brewers for four players, who were all mostly still considered prospects; Jake Odorizzi, Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar and Jeremy Jeffress. The deal was mainly for Odorizzi and Cain, though the other two players have some potential as well.

Heyman is suggesting that the Atlanta Braves are after a similar package for a pitcher, Jair Jurrjens, who has not come close to the accomplishments that Greinke has. Is the market for pitching this off-season that much better than it was last off-season that a lesser player in Jurrjens could bring the same return as a guy like Greinke, who is considered an ace?

Ben over at Capitol Avenue Club thinks this is a Boras-generated rumor, and Heyman is just the mouthpiece. That's a very real possibility as Boras wastes no opportunity to over-inflate his clients' status. But there may be more to it than that, after all, this is already an off-season where a low-budget team has paid $5 million for Derek fifth-starter Lowe (and I'm not even going to call him an innings eater any more). It's an off-season where C.C. Sabathia was able to hold the Yankees feet to the fire and extract an extra year and $30 more million guaranteed dollars to keep him off the free agent market.

Starting pitching is highly valued every off-season, and this off-season is no different. But this off-season the demand from teams who need starting pitching seems to exceed the supply on the free agent market. (Maybe that too happens every off-season, but this year it appears more widespread.) In this kind of market maybe there is a place for a Jurrjens trade that nets something on the order of what the Royals got for Greinke.

Clearly the Royals went another direction, opting for Sanchez from the Giants, and likely another C-type pitcher. But the Royals aren't really a team that would be willing to commit to acquiring someone like Jurrjens in the first place -- the cost in money and prospects doesn't make much sense. And after all, they just traded away a better pitcher last year.

But there are teams that would probably be willing to come close to giving the Braves what they want for Jurrjens. The Braves are well positioned to trade Jurrjens now, as he enters his second year of arbitration and still has two years left before he's a free agent. He'll be 26 years old next season, and while he has a recent history of nagging injuries, he's still young enough that those concerns likely aren't as important a factor as they would be in a pitcher over 30.

If you look at Heyman's list of teams, there are teams in there that will trade prospects to stay competitive. There are also some middle market teams who would rather acquire a younger less expensive pitcher like Jurrjens rather than spend on an overpriced older free agent like Mark Buehrle. Besides, what other team besides the Braves is offering an All-Star pitcher under the age of 30 in a trade?

The Braves know what they have to trade. They know how rare that commodity is right now. And they should be asking for a lot in return. I also wouldn't be surprised if a deal happened sooner rather than later. Look how quickly the Indians made a play for Lowe. Before bidding wars start for free agents, and teams start thinking how high they are really willing to go to sign some of these guys, a price-controlled pitcher like Jurrjens should be scooped up quickly.

I don't think the Braves will get quite what the Royals got for Greinke, but they'll come close, and they may be able to get two really good young players. The more likely scenario could be one established player (probably an outfielder), and a prospect or two; something like the Braves got from the Yankees in the Javier Vazquez trade (only with a much better outfield centerpiece than the Melk Man).

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JJ is an interesting pitcher

He’s underrated by peripheral statistics but overrated by career ERA. If Wren gets an overwhelming offer, he should probably take it. If another GM starts a conversation with “Well, he was injured last year…” Wren should hang up the phone and not think about selling low.

by another simpsons avatar on Nov 8, 2011 9:35 AM EST reply actions  

With the possibility coming out today

that Yu Darvish may not get posted, the pitching supply could get even shallower. Could increase the chances on someone making a big offer on Jurrjens.

"If you go out to a bar, pick up a chick, take her home, but can't close the deal, we used to call that "Calling Dan Kolb in for relief."-Talking Head

by SCrebel10 on Nov 8, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

D. All of the Above.

I just can’t post quick enough – and that’s a good thing, because y’all have it all wrapped up, Including the part about this happening pretty quick. I feel likewise about Prado. I believe it’s all done before the Arb-offer deadline… easily before that.

"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11

by carpengui on Nov 8, 2011 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

Agree on JJ, disagree on Prado...

JJ is a top-5 pitcher in the trade market, I think we’d be selling him high since his injuries don’t pertain to his shoulder or elbow.

Prado is far too valuable at $5MM, and too much happened to him this year for us to write him off and bring in a replacement who either costs more or zaps us of Martin’s versatility.

"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson

by TBuzz on Nov 8, 2011 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I expect we’re gonna know on Odarp soon. If we end up offering arb to him, then he’s ours. But since Frank put it out there that we’re listening for offers on him, I believe it’s only a matter of time. Personally, I have mixed feelings — it’s real hard to part with a guy who plays hard all the time.

"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11

by carpengui on Nov 8, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I just keep thinking about the scenario...

where Chipper misses 40-50 games, and not having an insurance policy like Martin who can step in and offer solid offensive production out of the 3B spot. I don’t know what the cost is to replace that AND find a new LFer for the sum we might save in 2012 on JJ and Prado combined ($10MM-$12MM or so).

"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson

by TBuzz on Nov 8, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Me too, then I start thinking about Mark DeRosa and I feel cool for a minute or so.

Not sure what his injury situation is right now, but if he came back and was successful…that would be badass.

Daffy Duck goes to bed at 10:00 every night, except on New Year's Eve, he goes to bed at 8:30.

by bwellnjonesco on Nov 8, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

DeRosa had a pretty bad wrist injury and it has been abotu 2 years recovering from it.

I simply don’t trust him at this point to be healthy and if he is healthy to be productive.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 8, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

In a long major league career...

…DeRosa has had two seasons that were as good as Prado’s seasons in 2008, 2009, and 2010. Add that to age and the injury issues, and he would be a definite downgrade from Prado. Serviceable, perhaps, but hardly as good.

by cavebird on Nov 8, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

not to further belabor the point, but (ok i guess I will further belabor the point) even if DeRosa is a downgrade from Prado, so long as the overall team is better it is an upgrade. I.E. if the guy replacing Prado is a significantly better player, the downgrade by DeRosa will be ok.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 8, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely

If the Braves aren’t trying to shed payroll, I see no legitmate reason why they have soured on Prado to the point where it seems like they’re trying to get rid of him. They have to realize that the chances of Chipper getting injured in 2012 are high & they’re going to need Prado.

by bloodgimp on Nov 8, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

In all fairness, the probability of Prado and McCann having DL stints are just as high as Chipper’s. I guess you could argue that Chipper’s age may limit his games played even if healthy all year.

Prado had two stints in 2010 and one in 2011. Chipper actually only had one in 2011 and I can’t remember one in 2010 outside of the freak knee injury. McCann has had DL stints the past two years as well…

by michaeldlee1480 on Nov 8, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Prado's 2011 DL stint wasn't attributed to an athletic injury...

He developed a staph infection in June 2011. Other than that at the end of 2010 he took a fastball to his side, and then a dive at 3B (in the same game I believe) that tore an abdominal muscle. Other than that the guy’s a game…extremely durable.

The question isn’t Prado’s durability compared to Chipper’s. The value of Prado comes into play when trying to determine how much to spend on a backup 3B and get similar production.

"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson

by TBuzz on Nov 8, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I could be wrong, but didn’t they find the infection because he had already hurt himself?

If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02

by king of games on Nov 9, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The issue with Prado is that though he is a good ball player and would be awesome to have around as a versatile utility guy, we’re not a club that can afford to keep a 5 million dollar a year utility player around if its the case that we can make a few moves spend a few more bucks and get an impact player in the lineup. Obviously, its anyone’s guess what Wren and the organization is thinking as far as LF in 2012 and 3B upon Larry’s retirement but you’d have to think if unloading JJ and Prado’s 2012 figures is their mission right now, even after unloading a good chunk with Lowe, KK and McClouth gone, they’ve gotta be thinking some sort of impact guy.

As long as they’re not thinking of Constanza as their opening day LF.

by michaeldlee1480 on Nov 8, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

As a proponent of not trading Prado

that is the best counter argument i’ve heard

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s not one that hasn’t been stated numerous times already. lol

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Nov 8, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Gio Gonzalez has been said to be available

All-Star under 30. but other than that JJ might be the best option cost wise. I also think a deal will be done sooner than later so Wren can know what he has to work with in FA.

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 9:41 AM EST reply actions  

If it happens, I hope we get high value in return.

"Lord, help me remember that there is nothing that will happen today that You and I can't handle."

by NCChopper on Nov 8, 2011 9:43 AM EST reply actions  

Same here, but I don't think it even takes a full Greinke package

Jeffress was thought to have closer-like stuff and be near ready, with Odroizzi as a high upside starter. We don’t need that. A good young SS in line of Escobar (but hopefully a little better) and a decent 4th OF in the mold of Cain would fill our primary needs imo of another starting caliber OF to work with Prado and be able to backup Bourn in CF, with Escobar filling the SS void. The problem is, the number of starting SSs that are available aren’t that plentiful. Maybe Lowrie from Boston if they are set on holding Scutaro for another year until Iglesias is ready. We’re not getting a SS from the Yankees, Baltimore, or Toronto. I doubt we can get Castro from the Cubs, at least not without including a couple prospects including a Delgado or Vizcaino too. Texas dealing Andrus seems far fetched. Maybe JJ + Vizcaino or another prospect for Alcides Escobar and Wil Myers, since it sounds like the JJ straight for Myers won’t work?

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with you about needing a SS in return here. We have good young shortstops who are a year away, all we need is a stopgap to get to them, and I don’t think you find that SS via a trade like this, you find him on the FA market. In a trade like this you try to get back the best possible players, not necessarily fill needs.

by gondeee on Nov 8, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

But the FA market isn't that strong

maybe Sea Bass, but I’d like a bit better obp.
maybe Furcal, but he’s so injury prone you’d have to hope Pastornicky will be ready from day 1 just in case, plus there’s the question of if we’d even consider him because of the agency thing a couple years ago.
Reyes and Rollins, too injury prone and old to be worth the money they’ll want, plus both want long term deals to not fit the “stop gap” aspect.
Bethancourt, Barmes, and Renteria maybe, but none feel any better overall than Sea Bass, and at least he’s familiar.

I really don’t like the free agents, and with the questions about Pastornicky as maybe not having the arm to stick, and Simmons needing at least another year, if not 2, to develop his bat, if it ever develops, I’d be willing to make a move if it brings back a potential long term answer at SS. But then, there are very few SSs out there who would fit that description AND be realistically available.

The SS need is just very difficult to fill to my eyes, and if you can get a long term solution, I’d make that move instead of waiting on the maybe, maybe not of a Pastornicky or Simmons. I guess we’ll see going forward. But the list of FA names is uninspiring to say the least, and all have their own problems. I wouldn’t say we “need” a SS in return, because like you say, we can probably fill it with one of the above FAs with hopefully Pastornicky or Simmons proving ready in the very near future. But again, if you can get a good, potential long term solution there, I wouldn’t pass that up for the maybes in the minors.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m kind of guessing we’ll re-sign Jack Wilson. He would fit the role of “stop-gap” and mentor to Pastornicky and Simmons quite well, and he likely wouldn’t mind losing playing time to those kids throughout the year. With the rest of our offense (and potentially an OF corner upgrade – or improvement) we don’t really need anything above pedestrian offensive output from SS. We need great defense, and Wilson can bring that.

by gondeee on Nov 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

then you have a higher opinion of Wilson than I do

“above pedestrian offense” would be a massive overstatement on him imo. Barmes might be the better choice if we’re going that route.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess I’m hearkening back to his days in Pittsburgh when he was not quite terrible. Perhaps I should have said below pedestrian. Though one has to go back quite a few years to find a year in which he was healthy.

I’m not saying he’d be awesome or even close, but he would give us good defense and he’d be cheap. As you said there aren’t many SS options within our projected price range that we wouldn’t have to overpay for.

by gondeee on Nov 8, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Not to mention the wealth of “You’re so ugly…” jokes to be made at his expense. That alone would make it worth while.

If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02

by king of games on Nov 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

C-

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

F

for copying.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Quiz

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 9, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

All above aside, I definitely agree with that last line of best possible players and not filling needs

I think when you look at filling needs only trades, you often have to accept pennies on the dollar in value, like with Escobar needing a SS return in Sea Bass, or Tex needing a ready 1B return in Kotch. I agree completely that you go after the best possible package and not target specific positions only.

Was simply saying that if we got those two, Cain and Escobar, it’d be a nice fit for what we need and two decent players. Escobar is a good glove SS who may develop with the bat, or if not we could simply decline arb and turn the spot over to Simmons or Pastornicky. Plus he’s cheap. Cain fills that current need of possible LF when Prado is at 3B, backup CF caliber quality 4th OF. I think if we could get those two for Jurrjens, that would be a pretty good package to get in return.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

We really made the wrong move trading Texeira to LA. Should have let him leave via FA and gotten the picks, then signed a first baseman.

by gondeee on Nov 8, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Or just sought a best possible package

instead of seeking a ready now 1B, especially considering we could have just used Prado as that 1B and gotten better production than we did from Kotch. But unfortunately, that deal’s been done and no changing it now.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Now, Mr. Sanchez – you know I don’t even qualify as a rookie rosterbator – so not even going to try to sound credible in a reply to all that. ;-)

However, I thought we are addressing the SS need internally and I’d be reluctant to give up Vizzy & Delgado just now.

"Lord, help me remember that there is nothing that will happen today that You and I can't handle."

by NCChopper on Nov 8, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

See above

Pastornicky and Simmons both have question marks, one about his D, the other about their bat. The only saying of a bird in the hand worth two in the bush would apply, so if we could land a quality SS now that can be the long term fix there, I take it instead of waiting on the two in the bush to see if they develop as good as possible, because they just may not ever become MLB playoff contender caliber starting SS players.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Get the deal done soon. Alot of arms are going tom hit the trade market: Shields or Wade Davis (Rays); Gonzalez or Trevor Cahill (A’s); John Danks or Gavin Floyd (White Sox); Matt Garza (Cubs); Wandy Rodriguez (Astros); or Jeremy Guthrie (Orioles).

by ShawnG on Nov 8, 2011 9:43 AM EST reply actions  

of those the most interesting names

are Shields and Cahill and they’ll both cost a TON in terms of prospects.

JJ is going to get traded, methinks.

by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 8, 2011 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

The Rays are reportedly keeping Shields

which leaves Davis or Niemman.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Word is that Davis is now the odd man out…

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 8, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

When is the Arb. deadline?

"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear."
— Edgar Allan Poe

by Poe76 on Nov 8, 2011 10:29 AM EST reply actions  

Off-season Calendar

Nov. 23: Last day for teams to offer salary arbitration to their former players who became free agents. (Note: Prado is not in this group – I realize my statement above may have suggested otherwise — I still think that a trade with him might happen prior to Nov. 23rd because of the implications involving actual free agents)
Dec. 5-8: Winter meetings, Dallas.
Dec. 7: Last day for free agents offered salary arbitration to accept the offers.
Dec. 8: Rule 5 Draft, Dallas.
Dec. 11: Collective bargaining agreement expires.
Dec. 12: Last day for teams to offer 2012 contracts to unsigned players (‘non-tender’ deadline).
Jan. 5-15, 2012: Salary arbitration filing.
Jan. 18: Exchange of salary arbitration figures.
Feb. 1-21: Salary arbitration hearings, St. Petersburg, Fla.

I mentioned a deadline like that for Prado, above, but that one’s not entirely relevant to him since he’s still under team control — since he’s not a free agent, the ‘free agent’ arb deadline is not applicable… I

"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11

by carpengui on Nov 8, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Ignore those last 2 lines… the related thought got moved up to the top and I forgot to erase. My bad.

"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11

by carpengui on Nov 8, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the dates!

"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear."
— Edgar Allan Poe

by Poe76 on Nov 8, 2011 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

very intrigued by a deal with the Rockies

I haven’t heard any rumors pegged to them, but I would think they are searching for pitching.
The deal would be set around Fowler, but they have a good list of position prospects that seem closer to ready than not.

Kyle Parker – 22 – RF – R/R – From Georgia
(A).285/.367/.483 21HR 9.3BB% 25.6K%
2 sport star for Clemson. Might not be Wil Myers but has time to progress and can move quickly because of his age.

Nolan Arenado – 20 – 3B – R/R BA 2011 – #80
(A+).298/.349/.487 20HR 8.1BB% 9.1K%

Tim Wheeler – 23 – CF – L/R
(AA) .287/.365/.535 33HR 9.3BB% 22.3K% 21SB
Jumped from 12HR .384SLG in A+ last year to 33HR .535SLG in AA this year in about the same ABs. Might want to take a chance to see if this power continues.

Josh Rutledge – 22 – SS – R/R
(A+).346/.412/.513 7.8BB% 17.4K% 16SB
BABIP of .414 in his first full season so probably a big decline forthcoming. High ranked though and maybe worth a shot.

Trevor Story – 18 – 3B/SS – R/R
® .268/.364/.436 12.4BB% 19.5K% 13SB
Probably grow from his 6’1 175lb frame and see a move to 3B

Also,
Ian Stewart is worth a reclamation project
Charlie Blackmon would be a great 4th OF
Rosell Herrera is a younger 3B/SS prospect who is comparable to Salcedo
Rex Brothers would be a nice/cheap replacement for Sherrill and could fit in EOF’s role down the road.
Russell Wilson has always been highly regarded if he does in fact pick baseball

Their top end prospects like Pomeranz(SP), Tyler Matzek(SP), Wilin Rosario© are probably not as appealing to us as they are to other possible trade partners. An offer of JJ and Prado for Fowler, Wheeler, Arenado and Brothers might seem like a better deal since they’ll hold onto their pitching prospects.

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 10:32 AM EST reply actions  

again

I’m the last person that thinks we should trade Prado but I’m starting to accept the fact that it appears inevitable

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

+1 for mentioned a Clemson guy...

I had the pleasure of watching that man play and boy does he have some talent… I hope he makes it as a pro. I think it will be a few more years for him though…

Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT

by Klemson Krash on Nov 8, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

BOOOOOO

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Nov 8, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting ideas...

….but I doubt they have any intention of moving Arrendando, he had a huge year this year and could be in Colorado before the end of 2012. Kyle Parker cannot be traded until August because he was just drafted and signed this year. Ian Stewart will likely be non-tendered. I don’t see much else there worth getting; Fowler is interesting, but a large part of his value is his ability to play center which we don’t need right now.

by cavebird on Nov 8, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

If Bourn goes down, we got nothing behind him

so a decent bat for LF that could add speed at the top of the order behind Bourn and slide over to CF if he were hurt would have value imo. How much value remains to be seen, but value nonetheless.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Pagan.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Nov 8, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I like it

but did the Mets decline arb on him? I thought they had one more year of control there.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Report is that they will tender him, coming from Heyman yesterday. He’s still a trade candidate, and I would consider extending him if he were acquired in a trade. I don’t think he would say no to a three-year, $12m deal at this point.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Nov 8, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

PTBNL

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

You don't want to get Parker as a PTBNL now

It would stunt his development—-we wouldn’t want him getting hurt while playing for the Rockies organization (and would want him to be taught our way) which means he would have to be shut down until we got him (like Pomeranz was when he was traded to the Rockies last year), and that would take away almost a full season of development time for a guy who would really need it because he played less baseball b/c of football.

by cavebird on Nov 8, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

agree Agree AGREE!

There is not a single player on that roster I would like to see play for the braves aside from Troy Tulo…and if that was pulled off my mind would literally explode. The rockies would be declaring themselves the least intelligent team in all of professional sports, im not even going to talk about it any further because its so extreme. Point is, no deal with rockies please…there has to be a better suitor for J.J

by bravesfanldh on Nov 8, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Fowler + Arenado + Story

for Prado + JJ.

Do. It. NOW. Arenado is two years younger AND a better hitter than Parker. Story is young, projectible and could stick at SS.

by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 8, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Vazquez trade is what is to be expected as well. A fourth outfielder type that’s already been in the league and is not expensive, along with a very talented prospect that’s far away from the majors. The years under control will make up for the inclusion of Boone Logan, so I think that’s basically what the Braves will get at this point if they trade Jurrjens by himself.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Nov 8, 2011 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

I think we could do better than a fourth OF’er, along with a good young SP prospect and bullpen arm. And that return would suit me just fine and fit the organization’s needs wonderfully.

by gondeee on Nov 8, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s probably about the same return as I’m thinking, since the type of prospect I had in mind was on the Vizcaino level. I’m not sure we’ll get his type of talent plus two others, but it really depends on the team trading for him. I imagine front offices across the league have varying opinions on Jurrjens, just a lot of us do.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Nov 8, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Clarify for me if you will...

When we traded for Melky.. Was he not expected to continue his progression the Yankees saw in him (and he ultimately displayed for the Royals) or was he really just a piece of lettuce in the trade w/ Vizzy being our ultimate goal? Viewing him as a 4th OFer seems a little off to me. You see what KC got for him alone… and we know what the spankees thought they were getting for him…

I guess I have more faith in our scouting than it seems y’all are giving them credit for… If Melky would have come in to ATL and produced for us the way he did for KC, would it be so far fetched to see us offering him an extension instead of letting him go via FA?

Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT

by Klemson Krash on Nov 8, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Melky was seen as a fourth OF at the time. That’s what the Yankees thought of him and most other teams too. He played more than that for the Braves because of McLouth and Diaz more than him actually being worthy of a starting spot.

He got in shape this past offseason and had his best year of his career. You can’t view his value now and compare it to what it was when he was traded.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio Stop calling Tommy Hanson "Big Red"

by BenDuronio on Nov 8, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

If he was a 4th OFer for the Yankees...

Why was he playing everyday… They didn’t spend money to put someone in his place… and Gardner sat (understandable because he was still learning) for him… I guess my perception is that the most over rated team in the game used him as their number 9 (bottom of the order) hitter on a regular basis… but the Baseball world viewed him as a 4th OFer… Even though he came to us for a starting gig… and he went to the Royals for a starting gig… Color me confused. Good thing I’m not a baseball talent scout. :-D

Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT

by Klemson Krash on Nov 8, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

It's kind of suspect

he was solid for the Yankees, especially when he was younger, and fitter. But I agree that they could survive with him low in the order. But Gardner as you say was young and still breaking in, then they went for Granderson, and he’d have been a 4th OF.

I think the goal was for him to be a kind of 4th OF/platoon partner. We had McLouth, who had a decent half season before, and hadn’t taken that step off the cliff at that time. Diaz was coming off a tremendous year, and he could take some in LF and even had some people cough*justin*cough saying he should be the leadoff hitter. So being a switch hitter, I assume the thought was the kid was young, might rebound into even better from his averageness with the Yankees, or at worst be the left handed platoon with Diaz, spelling McLouth some in CF against tough lefties with his right handedness. At least that’s how I recall the opinion on what he’d bring at the time we acquired him.

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 8, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Texas $

Would the deal look something like:

Jurrjens for David Murphy, Jurickson Profar and maybe Koji Uehara? Sub out Profar for Leonys Martin?

I’m just saying this as a question, not proposing it, so I can get a better grasp of what you guys are thinking.

by jwrocks on Nov 8, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

They wouldn’t do Profar straight up for JJ. He’s likely a top 15 prospect. Better shot at them moving Andrus.

by ShawnG on Nov 8, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Your header reminds me of this:

If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02

by king of games on Nov 8, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s what I was going for….was waiting for someone to notice! Thanks dude!

by jwrocks on Nov 8, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

JJ and Prado to COL for Blackmon, Arenado and another prospect

Blackmon could be play LF, and could slide over to CF if something happened to Bourn.

Arenado would be the 3B of the future, as he’s expected to be in AA in 2012.

by bbaker68 on Nov 8, 2011 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

look up a few posts I'm thinking the same thing

but i think Fowler and Brothers or another prospect can be thrown in

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm thinking

JJ/Prado for Fowler/Blackmon/WheelerorParker(PTBNL)/Arenado or take Blackmon or prospect out for Brothers

Bourn
Dex
Chip
Mac
Uggs
FF
Heyward
Gonzo/Betancourt/Pastornicky

Hinske
Diaz
Ross
Blackmon
Bloomquist/Hairston/Barmes/Punto/Pastornicky

Wheeler, Arenado and Parker would add depth in positions we need and are going to need in the nead future
Fowler could slide back to CF in 2013, or Wheeler. And expecting Terdo, Arendao or Salcedo being able to stick at 3B by 2014, if not ’13

Spring Training is the greatest thing that can't end soon enough

by JKowalek on Nov 8, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

buggar.

Are we to believe the Miami FO though? One can hope not.

Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT

by Klemson Krash on Nov 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

JJ fits that mold... Hanson does too.... as do the 4 horsemen...

… just sayin’

Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT

by Klemson Krash on Nov 8, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see why that matters much.

He is not better than Prado. Why move JJ/Prado for a downgrade?

by cavebird on Nov 8, 2011 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

don’t you think LoMO has a better ceiling than Prado. I kind of feel like Prado has hit his ceiling he is a very valuable player will play average defense in most spots (probably the best SS eva)…and will produce somewhere around 2-3 WAR a year. Now i thought the consensus is that LoMO has a higher ceiling than that, I could be wrong

It would take out a RH hitter and replace him with yet another lefty, which would make out lineup very susceptible to LHP, but we already are, so who cares, right? (mostly joking)

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 9, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he’s likely to develop a bit more power, he’s just entering his prime now.

If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02

by king of games on Nov 9, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

who is he? pronouns when i reference two players aren’t that useful.

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Nov 9, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

The market for #2 or 3 slot pitchers is going to be pretty weak this year & most teams seem to need pitching. Someone’s going to give a quality return for JJ as long as Wren is patient.

by bloodgimp on Nov 8, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

Colorado

seems like a perfect fit. JJ for Arenado and Blackmon (leaving Prado here or in another, separate, deal).

by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 8, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Except JJ has been pretty bad at Coors.

If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02

by king of games on Nov 9, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Almost everyone’s bad at Coors…if that was a requirement for a Rockies pitcher, they wouldn’t have many.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Nov 9, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

JJ and Prado aren't going anywhere

I don’t think Wren will trade JJ or Prado unless he is overwhelmed. That’s the right thing to do. Plus, without Prado and JJ we lose so much depth.

by Braves24 on Nov 8, 2011 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

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