ESPN article mulls Furcal/Andruw Return
Check out this excerpt from an article out today around the Braves off-season situation. I find a three year deal for Furcal pretty ridiculous thought (gotta be hard feelings there) but obviously would love to see Quentin come over. Definitely didn't see an Andruw shout out coming, and a bandaid like that doesn't seem to make any sense...
EXCERPT...
Which is why Furcal would make for an ideal solution. Between a markdown for his injury history, his age (already 34), and his willingness to take a three-year deal during his previous free agency after the 2008 season, he might be a tidy fit into Atlanta’s infield and budget. Paired up with Bourn atop Fredi Gonzalez’s lineup would also give Atlanta some nice potential for basepaths havoc and good OBPs in front of their boppers. Admittedly, Furcal’s coming off a season where he produced his lowest walk rate (7.6 percent) since 2002. And Bourn’s 2011 walk rate similarly plummeted from just shy of 10 to 7.3 percent. But both hitters have done better, and Furcal’s .240 BABIP was the real OBP-sapping development, and that shouldn’t last.
If anything of this starts getting the Liberty execs squawking over the expense, all’s not lost. GM Frank Wren’s roster arms him with considerable freedom of action. Because of that depth in young pitching talent, he can afford to dangle Jurrjens in front of teams disenchanted by a free-agent market overstocked on recently injured thirtysomethings. The Braves don’t have to deal Jurrjens, but they can see what the market for him might be.
Similarly, because Martin Prado’s a moving part who can be wedged into a lineup at second, third or left, he’s also someone Wren can afford to shop around, because he can be taken as a short-term fix for so many teams at several different positions (as handy as it might be to have him around as an insurance policy against Chipper Jones’ next disabling injury or the failure to find a left fielder).
But having both available to peddle plus the bounty of the farm system gives Wren a hand with which he might do more than dump arb-eligibles to control payroll -- he could use them in a package to get an outfield bat for left. The White Sox’s rumored shopping of Carlos Quentin might a great place to start, giving the Braves’ lineup a second right-handed slugger to balance out their attack. Quentin’s also arb-eligible and just a year from free agency, but the potential for a salary-neutral exchange for 2012 is there.
The alternatives on the market aren’t great, but they are interested. Along the lines suggested yesterday, a creative deal for Grady Sizemore could work, but so too might J.D. Drew in a short-term agreement. The problem for both would be that they’d exacerbate the left-wards lean to the lineup. Renewing their acquaintance with Andruw Jones might be part of a cheap platoon arrangement with the ubiquitous Eric Hinske.
Whatever solutions Wren and company land upon, there’s plenty to work with, and perhaps even more to look forward to. But with Chipper Jones’ career winding down and commitments to Brian McCann and Tim Hudson (though there are options for both for 2013), as well as Bourn ending soon, angling for win-now solutions ought to be under consideration.
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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The braves have vowed publicly to never deal with Furcal's agent ever again.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Do we really have to go there again?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 4, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I lost all interest
at “ESPN.”
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
by duwanis on Nov 4, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
But do you want Andruw?
Or Nostalgic-Andruw?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Billy Wagner and Javy Vazquez disagree
by another simpsons avatar on Nov 4, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Javy was a trade. Wagner is in a class on his own and clearly wasn’t on the decline. I’ll wait for the other examples of older players who have done good for the Braves the last few years.
Garrett Anderson = Terrible
Troy Glaus = Good for 1 1/2 months.
Old Smoltz and Glavine didnt work out to hot either.
Derek Lowe = nope
Kawakami = even worse
by drumzalicious on Nov 4, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
David Ross was 32 when we signed him
Saito was also a productive signing.
Sherrill was also worth the money.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Andres Galarraga “The Big Cat” was a good signing, missed one year because of the cancer, but was good the 1st and 3rd year of the 3 year deal. :D
I don’t care if Constanza hit .500 with 30 HRs and 150 RBI in 3 weeks, benching Heyward was a stupid decision.
by justincredubil02 on Oct 24, 2011 9:55 AM EDT
there were other, ahem, reasons for his success
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 6, 2011 5:20 AM EDT up reply actions
And I assume you have proof, of course, to make a statement like that…
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Nov 6, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Of course not
no one ever does, unless we’re talking about the guys that have already been named and shamed and dragged before congress.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Is he related to Joseph of Aremathia?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 5, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Helen of Troy, actually.
The first baseman that launched a thousand baseballs.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
TWSS
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 4, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I hesitate to even discuss scenarios where prado is gone.. but its inevitable that the convo goes there
Quentin in left field would be great, and furcal at SS would also be great.
quentin has an obp over 350 if you factor the HBPs and he will hit at least 25 homers. He also isn’t 30, he will be 29 I think. He’s also right handed. If Prado returned to form, they would be putting up similar OPS, but Prado would be more batting average and quentin more power.
At SS, Furcal would provide half the power of Gonzalez, but at least 30 or 40 points more OBP and maybe 15 steals.
If he did bat second, and he and Bourn get on base, both can score on a double, and both can get to third on a single. So bourn will be getting 60 steals, Furcal maybe 15, but both will be able to get across the plate at the top of the lineup. I would have to be thrilled about that going on assuming Furcal can get on base at at least a .340 clip.
Lineups
against a RHP Against a LHP or
1 L bourn 1 Bourn 1 L Bourn
2 S furcal 2 Furcal 2 S Furcal
3 S Chipper 3 Chipper 3 L McCann/Freeman
4 L McCann 4 Uggla 4 R Uggla
5 R Uggla 5 McCann 5 L Freeman/McCann
6 L Freeman 6 Quentin 6 S Chipper
7 R Quentin 7 Freeman 7 R/L Quentin/Heyward
8 L Heyward 8 Heyward 8 L/R Heyward/Quentin
We would just have such a balanced lineup if we picked up a switch hitter and a right hander.. We could be so flexible and move players around so much.
I'm really getting off to this lineup...
Two guys that really belong in the table setting positions, and because one is a switch hitter, either 80% of the pitchers (who are right handed) have to face two guys from the left, and the other 20% still face a guy from both sides.
Then Chipper transitions nicely – as another switch hitter, all the right handed pitchers will face three strait lefties, and the left handed pitchers will face two guys from the right for their first three outs. Also as a high OBP guy, a phenomenal situational hitter who can hit sac flies and do what needs done in the middle of the lineup he is perfect to bat with these guys on base. He also has some power, but not as much as is important with the guys on down the lineup.
Then 5 guys in a row that could hit thirty homers and will likely all hit 20. Also, every single one of those should have an OBP over .350 (factor in Quentin’s HBP). In fact, everyone in that lineup should project for a 450+ obp. What’s more, the balance of LH and RH batters goes all the way down.
What a balances lineup. Good OBP Good Power. 2 perfect table setters. 6 guys with good OBP and power. What more could you want?
C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
i can think of something
average – it’s there too
Bourn averaged 300 last year
Furca’s might not be that high
Chipper’s should be solid, at 280
I’m looking for a 300 year from McCann but should at least be 290
Ugglas not so high probably
Freeman could hit 300 but will def have a solid average – at least 280
quentins not so high probably
Heyward we can hope will hit 300, but we will see
So that’s at least 4 of 8 guys with 280+ averages (if my projections are near haha) and maybe 5 of 8.. And they are interspursed throughout.. Just such a balanced group of hitters to work with.. And to Have Diaz to Platoon with Heyward against tough Lefties and Ross as our backup catcher…
Then you have to wonder
how much better they could all hit if they were in a lineup together and designed this way… They really could all be at the top of their numbers..
I’m not opposed to either of these ideas. Andruw worries me more than Furcal, but I don’t think it’s a terrible idea – on a minor league contract with a ST invite.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 4, 2011 7:14 PM EDT reply actions
My biggest issue with Fookie would be
how injury prone he’s been the last few years. Although if he wasn’t too expensive, he could be a solid vet to let Pastornicky spend a little more time in AAA before he breaks down and the kid comes up. And Andruw has posted solid obp and slg the last two years.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
except
he’d probably “Furcal” us again for the Cardinals. I doubt Wren even attempts to reach out to Furcal.
by drumzalicious on Nov 4, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind either...
…at the right price, and both should be cheap. Andruw is a fine fourth OF, but we already have a right-handed fourth OF in Diaz, so we would have to get rid of him. Andruw would take more than a minor league offer, however—-given how well he has done in a part time role the last couple of years, he’ll get a major league offer. Raffy for one year as the starter to possibly break in Pastornicky would be fine, too. Still, neither of them is a major move at all.
Not Major in that neither brings a super star starter to the team
but Furcal could be a real win move for the team.
if Furcal has a decent season he could be a perfect table setter with Bourn. As a switch hitter, with balanced career splits, he could be a really great 2 hitter for us.
He also isn’t such a star that Pastornicky won’t have a chance to beat him out. He may be injury prone, but we can perhaps shoulder that risk with Pastornicky coming up. Especially considering that he should at least be healthy for the first part of the season which is when we would most need him in the event Pastornicky might step in.
If Pastornicky does become the starter, Furcal is a perfect sub as a switch hitter and plus defender. He should also be a solid sub at third, and as a switch hitter is a good replacement. He should also be able to play second.
This becomes a factor if we do trade Prado – then we would need a 3B and 2B sub that wouldn’t be a huge drop off and would be a plus defender.
If we don’t move to Pastornicky, and we trade for a SS at the deadline, Furcal would still be a great sub for us.
This wouldn’t be high cost, and he is about as valuable as a sub as we could find as a switch hitter with speed and good OBP skills that’s a plus glove at short third and second.
He could also be a good starter..
He would be much more valuable to the team than Gonzalez.
Furcal could be great...
…but I seriously wonder whether the injuries have taken too much of a toll on him by now. I still see him as not a horrible option since we have Pastornicky, but I don’t think we can rely on him to play well all year, it has just been too long since he has done that.
NO FURCAL!
and no Quetin, maybe Andruw just for shits and giggles. Our new hitting coach already has to repair Heyward, why not give him another project as well…you gotta figure one of them would turn it around some, more of a chance for him to look good.
Furcal just isn’t worth it, may as well stick with Gonzo…though I’m just hoping Pastornicky makes big strides to be big league ready soon, if he could become our everyday ss in 2012, we’d be much better for it.
And this will probably piss some people off, but I can’t possibly be the only person who wants chipper to just freaking retire already! He is becoming the Brett Favre of baseball, even Greenbay fans had to be getting annoyed. You love the guy who has been an icon on your team for many years and you want to show him loyalty, but if it comes at the expense of your team then is it really worth it? Sure Chipper can still hit….when he’s healthy, people here keep talking about us not taking chances on injury prone players like rollins…well were taking a chance on injury prone old-man chipper! I love him to death, he is my all time favorite sports player…but his time has come and gone. Now of course if he does manage to stay healthy (which
(which I highly doubt), then I would expect him to produce solid numbers. But the fact is he probably will not stay healthy and him deciding again not to retire only leaves the braves in a massive pickle. This team would be much better off if chipper retired and we could go out and get a better option at 3b..say aramis ramirez (a .300 hitter with good pop). Look at what happened when Favre finally did retire for the Packers…they ended up with now the best QB in football. Favre was good and loved, but Rodgers is much better and now equally as loved…..the same thing could happen in Atlanta, but chipper needs to hang up the cleats first.
And also, seeing as how chipper won’t retire and will screw this team over, why the hell do people want him batting third? Even when healthy he isn’t a better option than other guys to bat 3rd. IMO the braves lineup was most fluent when Freeman batted 3rd, Uggla cleanup, and Mac 5th, chipper shouldn’t be batting anywhere but 6th in this lineup. And for people who are going to say he is still good enough to hit third…then whats so bad about having a guy like that hit 6th?
I do hope JJ gets traded..I was hoping he would before the second half of last year when his market value was sky high. He is easily replaceable on this roster and the whole Boras thing isn’t attractive either. I want Prado to stay, especially if Chipper would freaking retire, then he could be the everyday 3b or LF’er depending on which position has the best available players for the braves to get….if there are good options for a 3B than make prado the LF’er, and visa versa.
If the braves do trade both JJ and Prado, then we better see an A level talent signing in free agency or through trade. If we free up that kind of extra money and only go after old stop gap players, i’ll be pissed. I say just go big after a power hitting outfielder..a proven one, take your chances on chipper at 3rd (because they have to), find him a one year serviceable replacement for if and when he goes down and next year that guy will be gone as will chipper and they can find their 3rd baseman for the next decade.
I just want the braves to make a splash this year…and a good one, i’m talking cannon ball not belly-flop. If the braves do decide to go after that Cuban CF’er, it probably would be a waste of all their money they saved, unless somehow he goes for much much cheaper than the asking 30 mil.
I’ve heard people for the past 2 years talking about us going after Kemp? Is that even possible…what would we have to part ways with to make that happen and would it be worth it? If we could manage to hang on to Bourn and somehow get kemp…then we could easily shift one of the over to play left and that problem would be solved….it’d be cool to see, but I don’t think it’s even possible.
Sorry about the ranting, im just excited for something to happen..and I’m hoping its something big. Has anyone heard any new whispers on Atlanta being involved in something big?

One thing I will say after a quick scan: if you think that Chipper is “screwing this team over” by not retiring, then I don’t think you’ve been paying a lot of attention to our offense.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Not to mention the fact that he was underpaid for his entire career while puting up HOF numbers just so he could stay with the Braves..
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 9, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions

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