Bowman reports Braves fine with Pastornicky
by HeyBattah on Nov 29, 2011 12:05 PM EST
Email
PrintSounds like there's more love for TP than I thought. Hellooo Jack Wilson.
CLIP
"Braves general manager Frank Wren and his staff will likely be quite busy during next week’s Winter Meetings in Dallas. But instead of shopping to fill specific needs, they will likely spend much of their time listening to trade offers for Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado.
The Braves entered this offseason looking to find a replacement for free agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez and exploring the possibility of adding a power-hitting outfielder. They believe they could acquire the kind of impact outfielder they are seeking via the significant returns they will request from any club interested in dealing for Jurrjens or Prado.
As for the shortstop position, it seems like the Braves would be content to enter Spring Training with Tyler Pastornicky projected to handle the role. They are currently looking to sign a veteran like Jack Wilson or Edgar Renteria to serve as a backup and provide insurance in the event that Pastornicky is not ready.
With Pastornicky and Andrelton Simmons in their system, the Braves are not looking to make a long-term commitment to a veteran shortstop. Simmons, who is considered one of the game’s top defensive shortstop prospects, might be ready to make the jump to the Majors after the All-Star break.
While it will certainly be interesting to see if the Braves do indeed enter the upcoming season with Pastornicky as their starting shortstop, next week’s attention will primarily center around Jurrjens and Prado.
Over the past month it has become even more apparent that Wren has told all interested teams that they will have to provide a significant return to get either Jurrjens or Prado.
The demand for Jurrjens will likely increase once C.J. Wilson and Mark Buehrle, this year’s top free-agent starting pitchers, decide where they will be pitching next year. The Rangers, Yankees, Marlins are among the teams that are expected to talk to the Braves about Jurrjens."
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/2011/11/29/braves-believe-pastornicky-is-ready/
also, what you posted is more than a clip…it’s the entire article.
hmmm
Simmons, who is considered one of the game’s top defensive shortstop prospects, might be ready to make the jump to the Majors after the All-Star break.
from a guy who just got out of A+? High Dubious there.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions
If his bat plays, his defense is already MLB-caliber, according to cbwilk. It’s just the matter of whether or not he can hold his own, offensively.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Nov 29, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
"If his bat plays,"
And I think that’s a big if.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Without a doubt. That’s what we’re going to find out about this season when he starts in AA or maybe AAA, if TP starts with the big club out of ST.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Nov 30, 2011 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
Furcal had more power. Simmons may end up with a Constanza-like bat- which would play at SS, but barely.
I think Simmons will end up with a ML-career, though if his bat doesn’t improve, it will be as a bench defensive replacement. (Note: this is his floor to me, his ceiling is a good slap hitting leadoff hitter who’s an elite defensive SS)
you'd think that, because he was shorter, thicker and developed that power
but he actually wasn’t. Simmons had a better slg and better iso this past year in A+ than Fookie did his year in A+. And age may or may not have been different.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Age 21 season
Avg OBP SLG OPS BB% K%
Furcal .322 .392 .389 .781 9.39% 13.31%
Simmons .311 .351 .408 .759 5.08% 7.5%
Furcal split between A and A+, while Simmons spent the whole year in A+. Would really like to see that walk rate increase bump up a little bit to increase OBP. But with his defensive ability, it won’t take much offense to make him extremely valuable.
Are we using Furcal's real age?
I think you are because he was allegedly in the majors before his 21st birthday, but I just want to be sure.
I love that story...
got a DUI that was gonna be an underage to go on top and cost him his license for a lot longer, and that’s when his true age was revealed.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Makes you a Mr. Sanchez?
BOOM! :)
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 6, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm surprised you opted for those two
instead of these:
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 6, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
Just imagine for one second
that middle IF and a certain masher in LF and a super utility guy backing them all up, along with the fragile 3B hero….mmmm
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 6, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
I am
In my defense, you brought it up.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 6, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
Is this really different than anything we already heard?
While it seems to praise TP more, they still mention getting a veteran SS like Wilson or Renteria, which most of us figured would be the plan anyway. If TP is ready awesome, but I certainly don’t want to be completely reliant on him.
Me thinks Wren/Co. is just blowing sunshine up people’s butts…make it seem like the Bravos aren’t interested in a SS when in fact they are.
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
Definitely a possibility
Especially if they’re hoping to keep from overpaying for one in a trade
The Pastor has what....a month of AAA?
I’d put a big bet up that you’re right and Wren is just posturing here. Pastornicky needs at least a couple more months of seasoning- if not most of 2012- at AAA before he can even begin to be considered a legit MLB starting SS, IMO.
by crimsonqueen9 on Nov 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I agree...
I have a feeling we’re still trying to re-sign Gonzo to a 1 yr deal with a potential 2nd year option. I also think we need to forget about trading Prado because he isn’t going anywhere. I would expect Wren to give him another year in LF. He has to be smart about this. Prado was injured for over a month last year, and that may have affected the way he hit. I actually think that he can easily give us 20-30 HR’s out of LF if he’s healthy. I would hate to seem him leave and turn into Bautista 2.0.
by CaliforniaBrave on Nov 29, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Prado will never hit close to 30 homers. He just doesn’t have that kind of power.
It was a particularly small egg...thats why I asked.
by thenightstallion on Nov 29, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Didn't everyone say the same thing about Bautista???
If I remember correctly he hit 54 two seasons ago, and 43 last year. The most he hit before that was 16. Huh… Go figure.
by CaliforniaBrave on Nov 29, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
No, no one ever said Bautista couldn't hit homers
It’s that he couldn’t hit anything else. He showed great power all the way up, but his selectivity of which pitch to swing at hampered what he could do with those pitches. He has become one of the more selective hitters in the league, which is what has really lead to his surge.
Prado in the minor leagues never topped 25 doubles or 5 home runs. What he does exceptionally is put bat to ball and find holes. He has enough power to possibly hit 20ish homers, but he had very good approach in 2009 and 2010 and hit 26 combined homers. He’s a gifted gap hitter with good contact and low strikeout ability.
Incredibly different players.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Nov 29, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. 15-20 Dingers and 30-40 Doubles
…is more than acceptable power for a guy that can put up a .305/.350/.460/.810 (this is his approximate 2008-2010 line), even if he is a LF where 25+ HR power is typically expected among contending teams. Prado is more valuble than just being a LF, making his specific numbers even less of a concern. 2011 was probably a bad, injury-hampered year for Martin and I think there’s a good chance he returns to the form of his previous three seasons in 2012. I hope we keep him.
by crimsonqueen9 on Nov 29, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Great. Now Prado is the next Bautista???
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 29, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Prado can become anything!
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Fanshot anyone?
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
So with the Marlins being interested.......
Package of Yelich and James interest any body? Shooting high, why not?
last i heard
the marlins farm system was bone dry. yelich looks good but i couldn’t find “james” since that is a common name. i think the marlins will just want to do signings, not trades because they have money and not a lot of minor-league depth. but i could be wrong.
Hmmm
If the Braves are so high on Simmons to think he could be ready by the ASB . . . . . why not trade Pastornicky?
Off Topic
Did you comment on a Gawker column in the past day or two? I saw a comment on their website with the exact same avatar.
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
by Chipper Pwns on Nov 30, 2011 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t even know what Gawker is lol.
by drumzalicious on Nov 30, 2011 1:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Haha, it’s just pretty much a really really casual news website. It’s definitely not out to be a traditionally impartial news service, but some of their stuff is entertaining. I would regard about as highly as a gossip magazine.
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
by Chipper Pwns on Nov 30, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
I was accussed of plagiarism back in high school because I copied an essay from the internet and turned it in with my name on it. Long story short, I did copy it (to be fair, I had something immaturely important to do the night before the paper was due). Anyways, the poster isn’t claiming to have written the contents of this post and credits Bowman as the author.
Should he provided a link? Of course. However, this is not plagiarism, its blatantly not providing linking to the source of the original material. Had this been an independent blogger’s work, I would have been more supportive of your comment. It’s Bowman, we all know him and where to find his work.
..and yes, I know my comment is unnecessary, but its my online nature to be argumentive with other comments that just point a finger.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
I was accussed of plagiarism back in high school because I copied an essay from the internet and turned it in with my name on it.
Actually, it sounds like you were guilty of plagiarism….
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
by Bronn on Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll admit I was guilty, but it was never proven back then.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Nov 30, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
because I copied an essay from the internet and turned it in with my name on it.
You wonder why you were accused?
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
Never really questioned the reasoning. I knew I was in the wrong, but also knew I couldn’t afford to get caught. I voluntarily produced “my own” rough draft with a similar writing style of the final essay to convince my teacher (more work than it would of took to write my own in the first place).
You guys telling me you never used PinkMonkey.com? I still remember the jingle, “Get your high school diploma, go to college, get a real job and start making dollars…there’s only one thing wrong, and it’s a trip, inner city schools don’t teach us shit”.
The point of the comment was that my actions were plagarism, the orginal poster’s actions were not.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
Except
By definition, they were, as he did not properly cite the original author of the information. That is plagarism in any court that Bowman would want to take this up with.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
I am not sure about that.
He did cite to the author in the title of the post and noted that the work was not his with quotation marks. Using copyrighted material without permission on the other hand….that one he is guilty of.
Dude...
…PinkMonkey.com didn’t even exist when I was in school. Kids. sigh
It’s super SFW, just a place where people posted their essays so other people could copy them. You could find essays for just about anything. Very useful as a high school student. Never tried it in college.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
You do realize using that site at all is plagarism, right? My friends who are teachers/professors know of the site, and they’ve failed multiple students for using the site.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
Yes, I never said it wasn't plagiarism.
just a place where people posted their essays so other people could copy them
I had a scholarship to college since 10th grade, so I wasn’t really motivated during my last couple of years in high school. I took the easy way out whenever I could. I don’t want to be labeled as a terrible student, so I’ll toot my own horn and inform that I graduated Cum Laude from Mercer University in four years.
…and yes, I know the title of this comment is a double negative. Call the cops.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
That's not a double negative, actually.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Why?
“Never” and “wasn’t” together do not change the meaning I was going for, but it is still a double negative. This is what I was taught, so please be clear if I’m incorrect.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 2, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I guess I should be precise
it is technically a double negative, but it’s not a double negative you need to be sorry about. “I never said it wasn’t plagiarism” isn’t the same thing as “I said it was plagiarism,” so grammatically it’s a valid sentence; there’s no easy way you can effect the same interpretation without the double negative. This is typically referred to as a litote, and is a valid structure in several languages.
The notorious “bad form” double negatives are ones like “I didn’t write no double negatives” (which can be fixed by inverting one of the negatives) and the ever-popular southern form of “I ain’t never…” (where one of the negatives should simply be dropped).
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Gotcha, thanks.
Your way makes so much more sense, but some of the professors I’ve had restricted the use of any type of double negative in any situation.
Anyways, I just wanted to be clear. There’s some around here that will call you out for spelling Jeff Francoeur’s name correctly.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 2, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
They should really only be avoided
where they are unnecessary, or where they’re misleading/confusing. Yours was neither.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I still can't get over the fact that it is grammatically correct to end a sentence in a preposition.
Blasphemy I say.
So what are we talking about in this thread?
We were talking about which shortstop we should begin the season with.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
Someone should make a fanpost about that
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 5, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Touche, good sir. Touche.
I don’t always find things on TC exciting and gripping, but when they are, I prefer: Duwanis
by Santaklose11 on Dec 2, 2011 6:08 PM EST
I think it was just starting up when I was in high school (2001-2004)
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly
I think Frank Wren is putting us on, on both counts. He’s really NOT okay with Pastornicky to start next year for them-he’s not ready. And if Frank Wren thinks that Simmons is going to be ready by the all-star break in 2012, he’s utterly dreaming. That, or he still thinks that batting average is the be-all end-all of hitting analysis.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
So if Frank is, quite frankly, not being Frank, does that mean that toast toast toast?
by swainzy on Nov 30, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Paraphrasing Brian Regan...
If I was reconsidering an appointment to visit a Native American territory, that would be a reservation reservation reservation.
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
by duwanis on Dec 1, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A snake! A snake!
Ah, it’s a snake!
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
I'd say it depends on what you mean by OK
Simmons defense is already ready, so if he can obp .300+ he can survive with that if Heyward, Heap, Uggla, Bourn, Chipper, Prado (or LF) are all producing as they’re capable. So Simmons could be “ready” in that sense as an all glove no bat SS amidst a roster of high caliber bats (again with Prado back around .800 ops, Heyward back near .900, Bourn on and causing havoc, Heap, Freeman, Chipper, Uggla all hitting well).
And OK with pastornicky may mean, he’s not the ideal choice, because he clearly isn’t. But if Sea Bass gets some ridiculous 2 yrs, $8m offer from a desperate team, we’re not gonna panic and match, or give Fookie a 3 yr $25m deal, or Reyes 7 yr, $120m, Rollins 5 yr $75m, or some crazy thing like that. If OK means he’s not ideal, and we’d prefer someone else, but we aren’t about to panic and overpay a vet millions more than they’re work, Wren would be honest. Again, it depends on what you mean by OK. First choice = OK, he’s putting us on. We’ll live with it if the SS market goes crazy = OK, he’s probably telling the truth.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Say it with me
Stephen Drew
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Got your knee pads ready?
Seriously, while I’d like the player brought in, I’m not sure Towers and Wren would agree on a price. I don’t think Towers would do Prado or Jurrjens straight up for him (or even Venters), but I think if Wren was asked for one of the 3, he’d want a prospect too, and Towers would decline. They just seem to value him so highly (or at least did last winter), and the guy is just suspect with the glove, supsect with the bat (he has good years, but bad too, and how much of the good is that hitter’s paradise?), plus with the injury concern that he might not even be ready day 1, I don’t see Wren and Towers agreeing on a deal there.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
It would be awesome if they could find some middle ground.
I don’t see it happening though. While I’m still a believer in Drew’s upside, I understand the concerns.
It is not something that stats will support – just a gut feeling of mine. We all get those from time to time, right?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Like that gut feeling you had about the Jaguars Super Bowl chances in the near future?
/BlaineGabbertHAHAHAHAHAHA
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I have never seen a team destroy itself so quickly as the Jags this season.
All we had to do was keep Garrard, and we could have won the division.
BTW, I was never high on Gabbert. I hated the move to draft him. I was a Christian Ponder fan.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Other than either of those
you’d have been better off long term going with Luke McCown all year and taking Luck or Barkley (or RG3).
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Ponder
Hasn’t looked good, hasn’t looked bad as a Viking. Still a horrible pick for them to have taken him, seeing as they’re currently sitting with the #2 or #3 pick, and they’d certainly have their choice of QBs. Especially with very good linemen on either side of the ball on the board (their biggest weakness by far). I really think Ponder could be an NFL starter, but because he was picked by the Vikings in the current way they’re structuring a team, he’s likely not to show success on the scoreboard for quite some time.
Gabbert has all the tools, but he was easily the QB I thought needed to sit for 1-2 years behind a solid starter. I think Tennessee’s going to be sitting on a gold mine now with what I’ve seen of Locker and reports coming from their facility about how he’s developed under a solid vet like Hasselbeck this year. Similar actions in Jacksonville may have kept Del Rio employed and given them a much better QB in the future.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Dec 1, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Do the D’backs have a SS capable of filling in if we traded to get Drew? I thought that was an Achilles heel of theirs heading into the playoffs?
If we did try to get Drew, who’d head to the D’backs?
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
I have no idea. Maybe they can sign Alex Gonzalez. I heard he hits DINGERZ.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
I was going to make a “statistically correct” joke about this, but during my 20 seconds, I saw that he has hit 38 in the past two years. Still wouldn’t want to see him back.
I feel like SWAT right now..Colin Farrell GET AT ME! GET AT ME! LL Cool J GET AT ME!
by bwellnjonesco on Dec 1, 2011 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
Alex Gonzalez
is the Dave Kingman of shortstops.
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
offensively…because Kignman was not known to be a defender, whereas Gonzalez is pretty darn good with leather.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
Paging big hop….big hop, white courtesy phone, please.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Nov 30, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Don't you mean
king?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Hello.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 1, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Hello, is it me your looking for?
I can see it in your eyes. I can see it in your smile. You’re all I’ve ever wanted, hello.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Best. Music. Video. Ever.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 1, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Shit…user fail. ERRORZ!!!
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 1, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Bighop here
What the hell did I do?
"First!"...Who gives a damn if you are first
In my best Leslie Nielsen voice...
“Please disperse…nothing to see here.”
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 1, 2011 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
Cleanup on Aisle You!!
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Remember the last all-glove no-bat shortstop we called up?
His name was Tony Pena Jr. Exceptional fielder (career +10 UZR/160), but he couldn’t hit worth a damn. And that’s a guy who hit .282 at AAA
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Pena was never, ever considered the prospect Simmons is. Not close.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Nov 30, 2011 6:48 PM EST up reply actions
And ultimately a solid relief pitcher if I'm not mistaken
sounds about right?
http://sportsandgrits.com/
No, it's not
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/15521/source-sox-re-sign-tony-pena-jr
The 30-year-old Pena, son of the former major league catcher and current Yankees bench coach, spent most of his career as a shortstop for the Braves and Royals, but was converted to a pitcher by Kansas City in 2009. Last season for the PawSox he finished 9-6 with a 3.56 ERA.
Simmons is said to have P potential. Hopefully he has more stick than Pena and can stick as short. But if not, he could ultimately follow a similar career path.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Yeah it is...that Tony Pena still hasn't made the majors as a pitcher
The guy who has actually pitched in the majors regularly as a reliever is Ramon Antonio Pena. The one that used to play SS for the Braves and Royals is Tony Francisco Pena
So Tony Pena became a relief pitcher? As I said
definite solid however you wish. I’d use it to describe what he’s become.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 30, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
So you define solid reliever to mean AAA RP? That a hell of a lot of solid RPs
And you definitely weren’t thinking of the Tony Pena that’s actually been a solid reliever in the majors?
The only reason I mentioned it in the first place is I had assumed the reliever Tony Pena I heard about from time to time was the same guy, but when I checked B-R for Pena’s minor league stats I was disappointed to find out it wasn’t the same guy.
No, I knew there were two of them, but thanks for telling me what I know
and I meant solid in that he wasn’t quickly cut from everywhere and made the majors. But thanks for telling me what i mean with my own words.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Got it, every single reliever that can hold down a job in AAA is solid
My bad…clearly all my fault for thinking solid reliever meant the one that actually pitched in the majors. I didn’t realize your definition of solid reliever included organizational filler
I meant solid in that he wasn’t quickly cut from everywhere and made the majors
What do you mean made the majors? He’s never appeared in the majors since making the move to relief.
Yeah I noticed his
his one game with the Royals, but that was prior to the full time switch. Oops.
But again, I knew the better Tony Pena pitching was not our former Tony Pena. I’d mistakenly thought he’d made some appearances as deep bullpen depth for others. Oops.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
I remember when he came in that game to pitch
I was really surprised and impressed. Thought he actually had a chance as a reliever (and I guess he still has a shot, though his AAA peripherals aren’t impressive).
And honestly, my intention wasn’t to try and correct you to make you look bad or something. I just hadn’t realized they were 2 separate people until I looked up Pena’s stats, so I figured you (as well as others) might have been confused as well, especially since you had called him solid.
No hard feelings…this time ;-)
Seriously? Could that be any more misleading?
Pena hit .282 in AAA at age 25 in just 81 games. Prior to that he had never even hit .260 in any of his 6 minor league seasons. He has a career minor league line of .253/.285/.334. When Pena went through the Carolina league he hit .259/.304/.328 compared to .311/.351/.408 for Simmons. But yes, try and make people think that we should expect Simmons to end up a Pena like hitter based on that AAA batting average.
When people are talking about Simmons playing next season
I think they should expect a Tony Pena-like hitter.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Maybe, maybe not
Tony Pena and his AAA batting average have nothing to do with it though
I didn't mean for it to be misleading
Just drawing parallels. Simmons’ most promising trait as a hitter seems to be the ability to hit for average. Right now, he doesn’t look like he’s going to be a good OBP guy unless he CAN hit .300. Likewise, Tony Pena Jr. was able to hit well enough, at a hither level (without being able to locate league equivalents, I’m guessing that Pena’s year is actually a better achievement) that people thought his strong glove might be enough to make him a major league player.
I’m pretty sure that if Simmons were to be promoted after the all-star break (and I’d wager heavily against it, if this were Vegas) he would hit no better than Tony Pena. He still needs to do a lot of work as an offensive player for even his great glove to allow him to stick.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
No one is advocating that he’d hit .300 off the bat, but he has considerably more talent with the bat than Pena ever dreamed of. They’re not comparable prospects at all, so to continue down this path is simply an exercise in futility.
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
Damn hit post instead of preview
Pena only looked good in AAA that year because of a high BABIP. If people let that sway their opinion on how good he was, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary, then they made a mistake.
Looks folks....
….regarding the comment by Wren the Bowman quoted: of course he is going to say this. There are three possibilities:
1. Wren actually thinks Pastornicky is ready. He would then say so.
2. Wren actually thinks Pastornicky is not ready. He would still say he is ready so as not to drive up the price of potential SS’s in the trade market.
3. Wren is not sure whether Pastornicky is ready. He would still say he is ready so as not to drive up the price of potential SS’s in the trade market.
Nothing to see here.
This.
And “fine with Pastornicky” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 1, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
But what would we do all winter
if we didn’t over-analyze every little word that comes out of FW’s mouth?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Probably fix the U.S. economical structure.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Dec 1, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
I know, right?
How bored would we have to be to actually sit down and do that?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Let the kids play!!!
Let Pastor start the season i the majors, sign a cheap veteran SS ( no more than 2 mill ) Simmons need one more year in the minors, Sign Cespedes to play left he’s a 5 tool player he brings at least more speed, CF defence and about 20-25 HR’s and is an insurance in case that we can’t sign Bourn (Boras client) keep Prado since he will see at least 80 games at 3rd this season and the position will be his by 2013 (Chipper is not getting any younger, hopefully the last season of the future hall of fame member) and JJ should be traded but theres no rush to do so, by mid-season he’s price will be a lot higher while the young guns gain more experience in the minors and we are all set, if something doesnt work we have the chips to trade and fix it!! Future looks bright for the Braves!!!
“Fine with Pastornicky” I don’t even know what this means.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Wrenlinology
Back in the Soviet Union days, intel guys used to have a profession/hobby called “Kremlinology”. It consisted of parsing all of the words said and all of the photos published of Soviet leaders, to try to guess what the Kremlin was up to, and who was gaining status and who was losing.
So I just made up a word…
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
What’s the worst case scenario with Pastornicky? I think if he bombs, you get a replacement SS (or Jack Wilson) then do a mid-season trade, which we’ll have the chips for.
I say give the kid a chance.
Or we improvise for 2012 and give Simmons a shot in 2013.
"Some people give their bodies to science. I gave mine to baseball." -- Ron Hunt
thats seems infinitely wiser, depending on how well Simmons is progressing near the deadline.
"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."
Dwight Schrute
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