Braves GM Wren On Dealing At Winter Meetings
by gondeee on Nov 29, 2011 9:06 AM EST
in Braves Trade News
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PrintThis was a video from a couple of weeks ago, but as nothing has happened since then, it still seems relevant (and I didn't see it until just now).
The Winter Meetings start next week, and if I had to guess, I would say that the Braves will probably make a move. That's as much a guess based on my belief that the Braves (finally) desire a left-fielder with somewhat-prodigious power, as much as it is a belief that there are enough teams out there who really want a player like Martin Prado or a starting pitcher like Jair Jurrjens. Those two players are probably the best trade chips the Braves have had in decades -- and they seem willing to part with both of them if the return is to their liking.
Somewhere in the back of my mind I also think that the Braves would listen on Jonny Venters. Not that Atlanta wants to trade him, but another team with an opening at closer could see him as a viable option there (which he likely would be). From the Braves perspective, while he is probably the most valuable setup man in baseball, Kris Medlen could assume the setup role, and Venters has a lot of mileage on his arm the past two years, having made the most appearances in the Majors during that time. One has to wonder how long he can keep that up, and continue to be as effective as he has been since arriving in the Majors. It would have to be a deal where the Braves get the young left-field bat (or center-fielder for the post-Bourn era) they really want.
I'm wildly speculating, but in this market of over-priced closers, some team might find it more affordable to give up talent in a trade for a closer rather than commit a large portion of their salary to one. So much has been made of the Braves excess of starting pitching it's almost overlooked that Atlanta has two closers and several other late-inning relief options. And like GM Wren said, good young players under team control are in demand. This is only speculation, but it seems reasonable to me. (If you comment, be gentle.)
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I think dealing Venters or Kimbrel might happen...
but probably once they approach their Arb years. IMHO, Kimbrel is easier to replace in th organization than Everyday Jonny is. In fact, given time it’s very possible that Kimbrel’s void could eventually be filled by Arodys Vizcaino or JR Graham.
Having some offense earlier in the game would reduce how often we used Venters too…
"Reach down in there...TURN THAT DAMN THING UP!" - Coach Paul Johnson
by TBuzz on Nov 29, 2011 9:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions
good point
More offense would mean we don’t need Venters and Kimbrel so often.
You won't always agree with me...Because sometimes you're wrong.
by JonnyBravesFan on Nov 29, 2011 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
With the way teams are overpaying for closers in terms of lengthy contracts, I imagine the Braves could net a very nice package for Venters. With reliever volatility, the fact that he will soon get expensive, and has thrown so many innings over the past few years, it would make a lot of sense to move him now for the best package. His value is likely as high as it will ever be or can ever get.
Teams are overpaying for closers but for the most part this year, there are so many available (even with Papelbon and Broxton off the board) that I don’t think Venters gets his value in trade this year unless you match up with a contender that is really cash strapped. Maybe a team like Tampa Bay is looking for a closer and would be willing to deal. I can see the Braves trading him sooner rather than later, but probably not this year with the pool diluted by other possibilities.
No way they trade either two
they are the braves best publicity stunt
-_-
Wut
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Nov 30, 2011 10:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
As much as we love everyday Jonny
if he brings back an everyday SS or desired LF, you almost have to pull that trigger. Same as if he could net a Myers, Arenado, etc level prospect.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
So much this
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 29, 2011 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
I would HATE to lose JV...
…but if the price is right, it would be irresponsible for Wren not to at least consider it. The Braves have a wealth of bullpen depth at this point. The entire idea behind these kinds of moves is to move positions of strength for positions of weakness.
That said, I’d rather the Braves not trade my 4th favorite player (behind Chipper, Huddy, and Kimbrel)
Sometimes I tweet: @jmjonesjr
and we're missing the playoffs again
if we’re not willing to listen on anyone
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not smart you are
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Nov 30, 2011 10:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Trading a closer
If the Braves are willing to break up the three guys on the back end of their bullpen, trading O’Flaherty would make the most sense. He would make a fantastic closer and he’s only two years removed from free agency.
I can see trading Venters, making O’Flaherty the 8th inning guy and using Medlen or Vizcaino in the 7th. The deal would have to be one where the Braves got appreciably better, because losing Jonny would weaken the club considerably. I’d rather see Jonny with a tomahawk across his chest next season, frankly.
If JV is traded
Please trade him to a team that does not play the Braves
well
in 2013 we could be playing every team apparently.
by drumzalicious on Nov 29, 2011 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
I'm nervous about that schedule
I get the feeling that they’re going to try to preserve divisional play, so half of our IL games are going to be against the Yanks/BoSox/etc.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
et tu, gondee?
I didn’t expect you to fall into the fallacy that teams need certain types of production from certain positions. I meant to make a post about this a while back; maybe you have inspired me to finally do it.
I think its simpler than that
The Braves want to improve their lineup. The only positions they can really upgrade are LF and SS. Its much easier to find a good offensive LF than a good offensive SS. Therefore the Braves are trying to improve upon their LF production.
It really doesn’t have to come down to needing certain types of production from certain positions.
Then why are people constantly suggesting...
….upgrades that are power hitters who are not really any better than Prado?
I don't speak for other people and I don't know who has been suggested
Not sure I really see the relevance though as Gondee didn’t mention anyone in particular in this post. Not to mention we’re not even discussing Prado here. Adding a guy with similar value to Prado but a different skill set could very well benefit the Braves by freeing Prado up to take advantage of his versatility.
Exactly cavebird.
And after that sub par year Prado had and injury down the stretch in ’10, his trade value is probably the lowest its been in 3 years. Sell low, Buy high … with a guy that can fill in for Chipper … Uggla? Opening up more questions than you are answering by trading him. I would say no thanks.
I love Venters, love watching Venters. But he is probably at peak or near peak trade value and we others that can step into that role.
- ChillyMutt
we would not have a gaping hole at SS
if we had not traded Yunel….
/runs and hides from impending Yunel trade blog explosion
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Nov 29, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
From now on...
I’m not going to bitch at the argument.
I’m going to bitch at those who feel the need to bring it up, over and over again.
We get it. Shut the fuck up already.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Nov 29, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Not just yet…but I will be if it turns into a 50-post argument about something that has long since passed.
We don’t need it hashed out in every thread.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Nov 29, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
I was clearly joking
hence the slashed post comment action.
No intention to offend you, good sir
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Nov 29, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
If only we hadn't traded Doyle Alexander!
Rawr!
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
Then we wouldn't have gotten Smoltz!
Booyah!
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman
by Chopaholic on Nov 30, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahaha +1
"What up? We're three cool guys looking for other cool guys who wanna hang out in our party mansion. Nothing sexual. Dudes in good shape encouraged. If you're fat, you should be able to find humor in the little things." Again, NOTHING SEXUAL
"I'd rather jerk off a tiger in a phone booth than draft Cam"
-Mel Kiper, Jr.
you guys are like a bunch of pirahnas
by chop goes da weazel on Mar 31, 2011 12:32 PM PDT
by MikeTrain on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You must not like baseball teams with good hitters then.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Dec 1, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, you don't understand
he just really hates frosted tips.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
The Braves have like 8 starters and 2 closers. If they want to move a young pitcher to get a bat, dealing one of the starters makes a lot more sense.
read the fangraph fanshot about our pitching
we really might not have the surplus you think we do
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
yeah
frangraphs (and fanshots at that) are the end all be all of Braves’ pitching analysis.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
yes, that is exactly what I was implying.
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
I actually disagree with their assessment
They act as if those guys are the only 9 pitchers we could turn to if we needed an emergency starter (and 9 is a lot, also). It’s not like we don’t have any organizational depth at pitching beyond those 9 starter candidates.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
I agree, that article was a load of bull. Cristhian Martinez could easily pitch 5 or 6 good innings if absolutely needed, plus Todd Redmond, Erik Cordier, Yohan Flande, and even JJ Hoover could all make spot starts in an emergency. My main point of contention though, was that the main point of the article was something along the lines of: ‘The Brave’s depth isn’t as great as everyone thinks because if each of their top 3 starters went down, they would be in a bad position.’ Well….yeah, any team who loses their top 3 starters would be in a bad spot, regardless of the team’s depth. 8 immediately viable starters and 5+ solid emergency replacements is more than enough depth from which a team can comfortably deal.
Well, I think there’s two points they have that are valid. The first is that most teams use at least 7-8 starters over the course of a season, and which teams need fewer or more are mostly dependent on luck. Even in pitchers that have excellent track records of health, freak injuries can occur. And the second is that, since so many of our potentials are very young, we probably can’t count on any one of Beachy, Minor, Teheran, Delgado, etc. for more than maybe 160ish innings.
But yeah, it’s not like everyone has 9 excellent candidates to make a start for them. For a lot of teams, their seventh starter is going to be something like Todd Redmond or Erik Cordier, who are presently 10th or 11th on our depth chart. If we can make a beneficial trade involving a starter, we should
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
love Venters as much as anyone
But let’s face it: he was very overworked last season, and we can’t reasonably expect him to have another season at that level of dominance again. If he’s what’s needed to get the best deal on an outfielder, Wren will probably be smart enough to let him go.
"It wasn’t that it was slippery or anything like that. It was just, dadgum, my hands and the balls were so wet..." - Tim Hudson
by KoKo the Monkey (T-Bone) on Nov 29, 2011 10:00 AM EST reply actions
I imagine a Venters + Jurrjens package
could net us pretty much anyone we want outside of a very, very select few.
And frankly, both of these pitchers are for us, amazingly replaceable…
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Nov 29, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Not really
They still need to fit a teams needs while that team needs the depth to trade what we want. Its not as simple as matching up in value in a vacuum.
true enough
But any team with pitching needs (and there are a LOT) and great players at either SS or OF match up (there are a few of those also).
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't venters at one time being considered a starting prospect?
If that’s the case (and I can’t remember if it is or not) I don’t worry too much about the innings on his arm. Over two seasons he has 171 IP, which is about what we could expect from him if he were starting. So the workload doesn’t really scare me. And yes I understand all innings are not the same, but I also think his mechanics are good, which helps lessen the degree of trepidation I have.
That being said, my feeling is that there are few things more valuable than a reliable shut down bullpen in baseball. Therefore, trading venters only makes since to me if we can get a pretty massive return.
by bloodsweatandbeers on Nov 29, 2011 10:42 AM EST reply actions
IMO
the posters that talk about JV being overused aren’t talking specifically about just his innings but the amount of times he is used throughout the course of the season. The high leverage stress situations, pitch counts and back-to-back-to-back, etc., usage.
That being said, I completely agree that a strong bullpen with a back-up closer isn’t a bad thing to have.
"If it's F'd up then it's F'd up" --- Gregg Marshall
Potential Trade Partners
I don’t hate the idea of trading Venters, but what teams would be a fit with the Braves’ desire for a power hitting outfielder?
Not the Royals – they just got Billingsley
Not the Rockies – they are looking to trade Huston Street, themselves
Not the Reds – they need starting pitching
Any potential matches out there?
Not the Yankees – back of their pen is stacked; JJ makes more sense for them.
The Red Sox? – in theory they’re gonna go with Daniel Bard, but… he went 2-9 with 1 save last year. Trouble is, I don’t see an available power hitting OF.
The Rangers? – they just hired Joe Nathan to replace Feliz… unless they want insurance and a setup man. Lord knows they’re loaded with guys who can pound. Chavez, Cruz, Murphy, Martin (not so much the power there – but a CF of the future).
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
How about the Angels? Rodney was a mess last season and Fuentes isn’t exactly a bargain, either.
JJ + Prado + Venters for Mike Trout and a prospect. I’m dreaming, of course.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Nov 29, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Check that
Make that JJ and Venters…unless they’re planning on tossing Aybar into the mix. If that’s the case, we can add Prado.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Nov 29, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Trout
isn’t being moved. BUT, if he was, that would be a type of package to do it. I’d think we’d want Segura. Interesting to think about.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
That's not the sort of package I would see netting Trout
2 good players who are already arbitration eligible and great RP. Obviously it has value, but if you move a Mike Trout type of prospect, its going to be for a star player.
Hence why I said I was dreaming. However, that being said, a package surrounding Aybar would be OK by me. I don’t think he’s worth Venters, but Aybar and a good prospect? Interesting to think about.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Nov 29, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I understand
I was just disagreeing with JGS that that’s the sort of package it would take
but if you move a Mike Trout type of prospect, its going to be for a star playe
or, for say, the anoterh “Mike Trout” type of prospect.
would the Angels do a Trout for Teheran deal?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Mike who?
3 established major leagures arent enought to net 1 prospect? I think you are over-rating this guy just a tad. He could possibly be a super-star, and he could possibly be a dud.
The Angels would laugh and hang up the phone
I’m not saying the Braves should be willing to do it either, but this is just how it works with truly elite prospects today (Trout is the closest thing to 1996 Andruw Jones we’ve seen since in an OF prospect, I’d take him over pre-2010 Heyward in a heartbeat and I’m a HUGE Heyward fan), especially if they are MLB ready. Why would a team trade a likely star with a good chance of becoming a super star like Trout, who will be very cheap for the next 6 years, for 2 years a piece of merely above-average to good players earning about 70% of market value and a (albeit great thus far) relief pitcher?
Also, you really can’t treat every prospect as if they have a reasonable chance of being a dud. Barring a catastrophic injury, there is no way Trout will be a complete dud, even if he doesn’t live up the hype. He’s a plus defensive CF with some of the best speed in all of baseball. While we can’t be sure of exactly what he will be with the bat, guys who are far and away the best hitter in their AA league when they’re 19 years old just don’t fail. When you’re that good, at that level, that young, you’re all but assured of at least being a solid hitter. When you combine that with his other tools, you have probably one of the 5 best prospects of the past decade.
I’d take him over pre-2010 Heyward in a heartbeat and I’m a HUGE Heyward fan
interesting. I’ve seen the Mantle comps for Trout (hitting 450 ft HRs and then laying down bunts, getting down the line in 3.65 s). Yet, let’s wait until he actually has a year of Major League data before we make any assessments like the.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 30, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
I was comparing them purely as prospects
What they do in the majors isn’t relevant to that comparison (well Trout’s debut this year does because he still qualifies as a prospect, but you get the idea).
Like i said
IMHO…you are way over-rating this Trout guy way to much. He does have a high ceiling tho. And his ceiling is not and will never be as high as pre-2010 Heyward was. I just dont see it and Im not buying into the hype.
Compare him now to pre-2010 Heyward
While being the exact same age, Trout posted a .326/.414/.544 line, all in AA, compared to Heyward posting a combined .323/.408/.555 line split between A+ and AA and 3 AAA games. At the same time, Trout also made his MLB debut and held his own. Throw in the fact that Trout projects to have a sizeable advantage in terms of defensive value and baserunning, while also having ranked higher coming into his 19 year old season, and I think he’s clearly ahead of Heyward (and I’m a giant Heyward fan). Trout has a similar upside to what Andruw’s upside was when he first came up, except trading some of the power for more average and better baserunning.
Jed Lowrie
I could see the Red Sox parting with Lowrie for Venters + another prospect. I know the Braves aren’t looking to commit to someone long-term at the SS position, but Lowrie could start the year and be moved if Pastornicky is still tearing up AAA or if Simmons takes a big leap forward
I thought about the Rangers since they are so right-handed in the bullpen, but I don’t see them parting with anyone that would represent a substantial LF upgrade
by Phillip Ross on Nov 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Venters > Lowrie
so they’d need to be the one adding a prospect.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
by Mr. Sanchez on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Based on JV’s IP the last 2 years, plus the volatility of relievers, I doubt Boston would give up an additional prospect
by Phillip Ross on Nov 29, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Doubt either team would be willing give up a prospect
The Red Sox aren’t exactly the sort of team to overpay for a reliever, especially one that hasn’t been used as a closer before. Personally, I’d prefer Zack Cozart from the Reds to Lowrie anyway.
wow
we agree.
Zack Cozart
interesting there.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
Reddick would be a nice addition. Way too much for just JV tho
I thought hurricane season was over........
by bravesguy311 on Nov 29, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
The Padres
This might be interesting: Would Venters and Prado be enough to pry Chase Headley away from them? Prado replaces Hudson at second base – Venters replaces Adams and maybe allows them to trade Heath Bell.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
That seems like a huge overpay . . .
for a guy that has never even hit more than 12 HRs in a season. Maybe Venters alone, but no way they would give up Prado too
by Phillip Ross on Nov 29, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Headley’s home/away splits are very favorable (toward getting him out of SD). I don’t know that he’s a 20-25 HR guy, but I would expect more power as he goes along…. could be a long-term 3B answer.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
He's only got 2 years of team control left
Not really long-term unless he gets extended
Chase Headley is not even close to good enough
to trade even Prado or Venters alone for…much less both of them
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Nov 29, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, the more I look, I do think both would be an overpay… not sure what it would take… he’s essentially doing the Prado 3B/OF thing for them: swapping those two makes little sense for them. meh…
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
The Reds are supposedly looking for a closer as well
Maybe they’d be interested in a package deal for both JJ and JV. Not sure what the match in terms of players/prospects would be. I’d want Cozart to be part of the deal on their end and I’d definitely take him over Pastornicky to start the year. Obviously Alonso isn’t a fit but maybe a third team could be involved. Their other 2 best prospects are C, so not a fit either, but guys who could possibly be flipped to a third team.
ummmm
Not the Royals – they just got BillingsleyBroxton
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
McCutchen
Would an offer of Teheran + Beachy + Salcedo tempt the Pirates to make a deal?
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 12:29 PM EST reply actions
Unlikely
McCutchen is still under team control for 4 more years – it would take at least one more of the 4 Horsemen to get that deal done. And that price, I don’t think the Braves want any part of that deal.
by Phillip Ross on Nov 29, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I certainly think they'd be tempted
Not sure how I would feel about making that deal even though I’m sure the Pirates will probably want more.
Unlikely
McCutchen is still under team control for 4 more years – it would take at least one more of the 4 Horsemen to get that deal done. And that price, I don’t think the Braves want any part of that deal.
Would Venters + Jurrjens + Bethancourt = Justin Upton ?
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
Justin Upton
is about as untouchable a player as you’ll ever see after his last season. I don’t think any package the Braves could put together would move him.
by Phillip Ross on Nov 29, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
That was the first trade scenario that came to my mind.
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
by Chipper Pwns on Nov 29, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Not even close
To get Justin Upton you’d be looking at something like Teheran, Beachy, Simmons, and Venters
Maybe you are right
Arizona is not a good trade candidate right now. Now that I really look into it….they have a pretty solid rotation (solid but not spectacular), they have one of the better catchers in the league, and they have a good closer.
All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,
by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT
Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/
by Santaklose11 on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Not to mention he's one the 5-10 most valuable trade chips in the game
The haul they could get for him with 4 years at well below market value left on his deal would be massive.
Teheran + Heyward would get it done
but we want no part of that.
by JoelGuzman'sScout on Nov 29, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm honestly not even sure that would get it done at this point
Not that I’d want to do it anyway, but I doubt the DBacks would take on the risk that comes with Heyward at this point.
I just don’t know how long Venters will be able to pitch, particularly with his situation in Atlanta. Fredi just doesn’t have the control. He’s one of my favorite players, but his arm is bound to fall smooth of his body. I cannot imagine his stock ever being higher than now, and we’ve seen that closers have become valuable. If we could package JJ and Venters, it would be hard to turn down the haul.
Also, this gives the Braves an excuse to keep Vizzy in the bullpen (which I believe is what they want to do anyways (purely speculative)).
"One thing I’ve learned as a Phillies fan is that a lot of people hate our team and its fans."-commenter on The Good Phight
jv for reddick
Absolutely not! reddick showed flashes of good production but look at his career stats and tell me jv is not enough to net him.
My $0.02
I think a relief corps overall is a very valuable thing. I think any single reliever is an extremely overrated thing.
Our bullpen was great. But it wasn’t because of Johnny or Kraig. It was great because of Eric, Johnny and Kraig and Sherril and Martinez.
Losing any one of those guys is not a big loss, so long as we have some of the others. With Medlen coming back, plus the other arms down on the farm, Venters or even Kimbrel both become very expendable. I would have no qualms trading either one of them.
I was actually having this conversation the other day with a friend of mine. I think we SHOULD pursue trading one of them. Like has been mentioned here already, RPs are extremely over-priced and over-valued right now. We could bring back a king’s ransom for one of our two studs.
Frank Wren would be failing at his job if he didn’t at least look into the interest out there.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 29, 2011 6:27 PM EST reply actions
Seriously
Venters
Medlen
EOF
Hoover
Martinez
Varvaro
Cordier
Gearrin
and a cheap vet or two
that’s not a bad bullpen there, especially with a 100% healthy Meds and strong Hoover.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
We have such depth, it’s really not fair.
We could probably afford to trade both Venters AND Kimbrel and still be ok. We wouldn’t have a top 3 bullpen anymore, but we could certainly still have a very good one.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 29, 2011 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
And if we dealt Venters, we might be willing to say screw starting and use Vizcaino as a relief arm with his injury past
Kimbrel
Medlen
EOF
Vizcaino
Martinez
Hoover
cheap lefty vet
with Varvaro, Gearrin, etc waiting in the wings in AAA should someone falter or get hurt.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
Question
Do you think hanging onto Venters as closer insurance in case Kimbrel gets injured is a viable consideration not to trade him? Who else besides JV could step into the closer role if Kimbrel went down with an injury?
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
No I don’t.
If we build a roster based on “what ifs” instead of what we need, we will be in trouble.
Closers are a dime a dozen. I’m not of the belief that it takes a special person to get 3 outs in the 9th inning. 3 outs are 3 outs. If we have guys that we trust to come into a game with runners on 2nd and 3rd and only 1 out in the 7th inning, why not trust them to come in with no runners on in the 9th inning?
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Well, some "what ifs" are important
but they should all be secondary to primary needs.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Venters
Can’t agree. last year was not relief by committee. Held lead after
6th inning because of 2 imposing relievers. Opposing teams literally
looked defeated in advance.
Can be argued 2 elite closers is a luxury yet in an era of relatively few
complete games, and Braves’ starters on pitch count, I would be reluctant to trade
Kimbrel or Venters.
With Medlen and Viz added to the mix with EOF middle relief is likely to
improve over 2011.
I is what I is and I'm sticking to my story
Daylight shone in through the window
A perplexed look sat
Upon the face of the confused commenter.
My buddy and I just decided that the braves would be set if we could get Matt Kemp, Jose Reyes, and Albert Pujols.
by willlinn on May 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
by Bronn on Nov 29, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
rec for poetry....
the exponent in the equation is a matter of preference and "fit" it can vary depending on what the user believes to yield the curve that best predicts a team’s ability to win games.
by Ivan the Great on May 20, 2011 12:31 PM VET
i completely disagree with trading JV.
As with a deal for Prado and J.J. we better be clearly winning the trade before we make a deal like that. I actually want to add another shut down reliever via FA or trade just because I feel our bullpen needs more than just O’Ventbrel to be good this year and depending on Medlen doesn’t seem wise seeing as how a lot of reports have the Braves looking at him as a starter.
We just need offense
so that we don’t need O’Ventbrel every other game. If we can stop being in tight, low-scoring games all the time, we’ll be able to (theoretically – damn you, Fredi) utilize the whole bullpen more effectively.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
I love the parenthetical.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 30, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I hate that it was necessary.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Even the best offenses are only as good as the pitching on the team.
by drumzalicious on Nov 30, 2011 1:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not sure what you're saying.
Do you disagree that improving our offense would help mitigate the loss of JV in a trade?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Behind the 8 ball
We are still behind the 8 ball as long as Frediot is calling shots for the Braves.
He is an absolute terrible game manager.
- ChillyMutt
But he could play either LF or CF and be Bourn’s replacement after 2012…he doesn’t necessarily HAVE TO play CF right away…
by michaeldlee1480 on Dec 2, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
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