The Braves are in search of an outfielder -- specifically one that bats right-handed -- so Morosi wonders if Delmon Young is a player that works for the Braves, potentially tying to the two clubs into a swap.
This came from ESPN.com's Trade Rumors section (Insider).
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors/_/id/11487/display/comment
Apparently, the rumor swirling around is Prado for Delmon Young...interesting...
7 months ago
justincredubil02
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Delmon Young:
"We did a lot of good things last year, and now we've got Julio ... That does nothing but improve the offense, and we expect to do better. That's our goal, to lead the NFL in everything. Every offensive category." -Roddy White
by Beachy Keen on Nov 15, 2011 12:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nice
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
This...
I have a bad feeling about this trade rumor.
Whether you agree with the trade or not, please, someone make me feel better about Delmon Young.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
He has his best seasons on even years and we’re coming up on 2012.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 15, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
The bright side of things
Ummm…..he’s only 25 and could maybe figure things out one day?
That’s all I’ve got.
Oh, and he’s not Garrett Anderson.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
FUDY is also a pronounceable acronym
That counts for something, right?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Winning
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Young’s basically had one good season in his career, otherwise the fact that he’s a starting LFer is exactly the point I’m making when people suggest that Prado’s bat isn’t good enough for LF.
LF sucks around baseball, getting a bat that’s an upgrade over Prado’s there isn’t easy, and that’s before you factor in defense.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
The Braves are in search of an outfielder — specifically one that bats right-handed
Don’t they have one? A pretty good one? Mart Team Gucci or something??
I still don’t understand why Martin will be traded… it just makes no sense to me unless we’re DRASTICALLY improving the LF spot.
You'd think I was Travis Tritt struttin my FINE ASS on down to Florida
Pretty sure that’s the MO Wren is working under as well. It’s the media’s job to speculate on matches, it’s Wren’s job to improve the team and I’m confident he won’t make a move unless that’s the case.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 15, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
The only way it makes sense
1) They do somehow find someone who is drastically better.
2) There is some information we don’t know that makes the Braves want to rid themselves of Martin.
Otherwise, no it doesn’t make sense. Martin isn’t an MVP, but he’s still a pretty good ball player.
"He knows where he's throwing. If he didn't, there'd be dead bodies strewn all over Idaho." - Washington Senators scout on Walter Johnson
This doesn't doesn't make sense to me....
On MLBTR:
TUESDAY, 10:55am: “There is a trade brewing between the Braves and Tigers centering around Prado for Young,” reports ESPN’s Jim Bowden.
MLBTR went on to say (from yesterday)….
With a projected $6.3MM salary, Young was thought to be a non-tender candidate for the Twins but is currently penciled in as the Tigers’ left fielder for 2012. I think Prado would be generally regarded as more valuable than Young.
…and Prado projects to something under $5m this year. Seems like Young was on the radar before we got Bourn, but I didn’t know we were that serious about him. He is a RIghty, with a .300 vs. .250 split, but that’s real expensive for a platoon guy.
Maybe the Braves found yet another Smoltz/Jurrjens pitcher they can fleece from Detroit in the deal.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
I wouldn’t be totally upset if we got Castellanos in the deal..
Daffy Duck goes to bed at 10:00 every night, except on New Year's Eve, he goes to bed at 8:30.
by bwellnjonesco on Nov 15, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
tiger fans would be, kids a stud
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
I just don't get it...
Everything I read says we are looking for RH bat to play LF. Don’t we have that in Prado?? He’s not just a RH LF, he’s also a RH 3B and 2B. I think if Wren trades Prado it will go down as one of the worst trades in Braves history. I can almost guarantee Prado has an awesome year next year. The guy is a .300+ hitter. From what I gather he’s also a workaholic so you know all of these trade rumors are going to push him to have a better year next year. I have one last question… WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO BACKUP CHIPPER!!!???
by CaliforniaBrave on Nov 15, 2011 12:24 PM EST reply actions
I am.
Get excited.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Out of curiosity...
What’s your at-bat song?
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
Rammstein - Engel
From the intro.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
OT
Rammstein @ Phillips Arena Apr 23, 2012. Seriously, Phillips F-ing Arena
Lead off walks usually lead to runs, unless they don't. -Joe Simpson
If you don't like the way the Atlanta Braves are playing, then you don't like baseball. -Chuck Tanner
Best. OT. Comment. EVAR.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
i really hope we aren't trading prado...
unless it is for a hell of a lot more than Delmon Young
"The way y'all are lollygaggin around here with them picks and them shovels, you'd think it was 120 degrees...can't be more than 114."
by SouthernPanther on Nov 15, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions
This...
Obviously a Prado for Young straight-up trade makes zero sense, so I’m hoping if there’s any truth to the rumor, we get a big piece in addition to Young, especially considering Young’s not even cheap.
"Don't go ninja'n nobody that don't need ninja'n!" ~ Kung Fu Hillbilly.
However, MLB.com’s Mark Bowman says there won’t be a Young-Prado deal, as the majority of the Braves’ front office isn’t interested in Young (Twitter link).
Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.
A three-way deal could be possible... (okay, not likely, but try this anyway)
(Just speculating now based on another tweet)
1. Rockies take Delmon Young and Daniel Fields from Detroit (5th ranked prospect; CF). They apparently would prefer Young’s RH bat.
2. Detroit gets Martin from us. Saves them close to $1.5m in 2012.
3. Braves get Seth Smith and one of Blackmon/Wheeler from COL.
4. Rockies subsequently have to sign Kelly Johnson to play 2B (which means they probably have to do that first).
Frankly, I don’t know how Young could possibly work for the Rockies… he’s apparently not that good a defender on a regularly-sized field… but that would be their problem.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
Bleh.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
That makes little sense.
We get the same crappy Rockies return in this deal that I don’t like in the Colorado deals and Colorado doesn’t even get what they need for MI except by signing it as a free agent.
I think Smith and Wheeler would be a pretty sweet return for Prado, and it’s workable for 2012. That said, COL gets nothing they need, as you stated.
It’s funny how everyone here thinks Smith + Wheeler’s not nearly enough, but everyone on the COL blog thinks it’s way too much. Fans love their team’s players…
I think it’s pretty fair, overall.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I think Smith + Wheeler is fair...
…but it does leave us in a slightly more difficult position, unless Wheeler’s ready to start in LF next year. I’d rather get something else/more.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
LF is fine next season…Smith and Diaz platoon. Not optimal on the RH side, probably, but we’re paying him regardless. Most pitchers are righties, so at least the correct side of the platoon is filled with solid production.
Wheeler would be Bourn’s replacement…should be AAA next season and ready to play in 2013. Smith’s salary is going to mirror Prado’s, maybe less a million, as he progresses in arbitration. You figure $2MM, 3.5MM, 5MM for his arbitration years. That final season isn’t too palatable, but the 2012-2013 is gravy for a solid platoon. Finding a guy to play opposite Smith in 2013 might be difficult, haven’t looked too close at next year’s potential FAs.
The other question mark is with Smith…is he really a platoon guy?? There’s a lot of folks here in Denver that have harshly criticized Tracy for not giving him a shot as an everyday guy. 3+ seasons and he’s only gotten about 225 PA against lefties, 1500 PA overall.
Question: What varies between .347 on the low-end and .392 on the high-side??
Answer: Seth Smith’s minor league OBP against LHP.
Considering Smith’s ability to reach base in the minors against LHP, that’s borderline criminal. One thing he could not do, however, is hit the ball for power against LHP. He was basically a slap hitter. His highest SLG was .407 in AA.
I think the disparity between what people think is fair is logical on both sides. Rockies fans are aware of how good Smith can be, and have worries about Martin’s health. Braves fans (rightly, imo) disregard Prado’s poor season as being solely injury-related and feel he’s worth every penny of his 2009-10 performance. I can’t really disagree with either position.
If Prado returns to his offensive form, he’s worth more than Smith + Wheeler, to some unknown degree. If he doesn’t hold up his end of the bargain, that trade is a disaster for the Rockies.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
I really don't like the idea of us making trades that rely on Diaz right now.
If he continues to decline, or even just doesn’t improve, “not optimal” seems generous.
Given that we, at least, expect Prado to rebound… a Prado for Smith/Wheeler trade, while fair, is basically trading LF production now for CF production in the future. I’d rather not do that, personally, which is the only reason I really object.
(As you note, that assumes that Smith continues to present a strong platoon split; but, regardless of the idea that he might actually hit well against lefties given practice, I don’t really trust Fredi to use him that way.)
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
This is where we differ...
I’d trade for future production in a heartbeat. Yeah, losing Martin hurts. The question is how much, and how much Smith can mitigate that. I think the overall loss is visible, to some degree, but is far from back-breaking.
Prado’s not the only one expected to bounce back next season…even without him, I see the offense being improved. Whoever takes Sea Bass’s spot can’t be that bad, Jason won’t repeat, and Uggla won’t have a horrific first half (even if his 2nd half isn’t as nice as 2011’s). Conversely, Freeman could struggle in his second season, that wouldn’t surprise me. Kimbrel could have a shaky second go-round. Stuff like that happens.
I think the team can realistically compete for a playoff spot in 2012, but I don’t think they’ve jumped the hurdle to frontrunners just yet. For that reason, I’m willing to let 2012 be a year to stabilize the team while preparing for the next wave of talent to hit full-stride. Since any team that makes the playoffs has a legitimate shot at the WS, it’s not like the Braves would be punting 2012 away.
I’m of the belief that the team’s “frontrunner” window hits sometime in 2013-14 and is open for as long as the Braves can keep their guys. How long they can keep Hanson, Heyward, McCann, et al. depends on bringing in more young, cheap talent. With SS, 3B, LF and CF (possibly C as well, if McCann breaks down), along with most of the rotation and bullpen earning minimum and early arbitration salaries, the money for the then-veterans is there.
With Simmons/Pastornicky, Salcedo/Terdoslavich (3B/LF), and Wheeler, you’ve created another young base to build off of, that complements the Kimbrel/Venters/Freeman/Heyward/Beachy/Minor/Teheran/Delgado madness that will just be reaching arbitration (and getting close to FA, in a couple cases.
You can afford to offer Hanson/another starter and Heyward the moon, if their production is there and you have plenty of young players making a relatively small amount. Signing Bourn doesn’t help accomplish that goal, though I love having him on the team.
Neither philosophy is better or worse, mind you. I’ve no problems with the Braves trying to claim the division in 2012 by sacrificing future opportunity, to a small degree. But the long-term model is what is working for the team right now, and I think it needs to be sustained. That can happen through the draft and what-not, but adding players in position of need for guys that are becoming expendable can certainly help those future preparations.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Yeah, I think the important thing is we're not talking about huge changes one way or the other
And after a hard race for the wildcard spot in ‘10 and a soul-crushing wildcard miss in ’11, I’d rather we stay all-in for ’12.
If we were talking about netting some major future benefits in exchange for a minor setback next year, I’d probably be thinking differently.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
We won 89 games last year.
And we have several improvement candidates without losing anything of value. I think we can win in 2012; making trades for years beyond 2012 that hurt our team in 2012 (and a Smith/Diaz platoon is worse than Prado, along with the downgrade at Chipper backup) don’t make sense to me. And even if Smith is as good as Prado, Prado is one of our few productive right-handed hitters. Yes, most pitchers are right-handed, but if we can’t hit lefties at all, that is sacrificing too many games. I also don’t see Wheeler as anything close to a sure thing, so that is another reason to be against the trade for me.
Fair assessment...
I’ll agree to disagree, based on the opinion that a proper platoon does exceed Martin’s value at LF, that the inclusion or exclusion of Martin Prado in no way guarantees that 2012 will be more or less successful for the team, when mitigated by the addition of a player(s) that can match or exceed his performance.
We can disagree on Wheeler as well, but I think the reward there far outweighs the risk. Unless you’re aware of any potential plus power center fielders that are available for minimum salary and under team control for six years, I think he’s the way to go, if possible. It’s a much better option than paying Bourn $12+MM per year until the age of 35.
Assuming a best-case scenario of Prado earning 9 WAR over two seasons, I’m much more comfortable in paying less for Smith and Wheeler, even under an assumption that Smith matches career “full-time” (for him, i.e. 130-ish games) lows that would put him at 5.1 WAR for his three controlled seasons. That leaves only 4 WAR for Wheeler over a six-year time frame to break even, for less monetary cost. It’s a relatively safe bet, in my opinion.
If we look at mean value for Smith “full-time,” you’re looking at 6.5 WAR, making Wheeler incredibly likely to overcome and exceed the Prado’s projected value. If he’s an average player for two of those six years, the opportunity gain already exceeds the projected value of Prado.
Of course, all this is done with the premise that Prado is as good or better than his best season for the next two years, which is not a slam dunk, by any means.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
by cthabeerman on Nov 16, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I don't even really get it
That trade makes my head hurt, because nobody wins.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Yeah, the longer this drags out, the less sense it’s making for the Braves in almost any scenario. So far the idea of getting Smith + a top prospect from the Rox was the best thing on the board… but still leaves us with no Chipper backup and a platoon in LF that we hope will be better than Prado by himself.
I’m about ready to say: “Okay, if SS is Pastornicky’s job to lose, then let’s just stop all the talking and head to Florida.”
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
Kelly Johnson
is not getting signed until the Blue Jays decline to offer him arbitaration. he is a type A
Week from tomorrow…but I think the Jays offer arbitration.
That’s when the hard decisions begin…does he accept knowing he’ll make good money, do other teams risk giving up a pick for him?? Should be interesting.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
They definitely traded for him for a reason. They either really want to keep him, or they want the draft picks.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
We also don't know whether anyone will cost a pick yet.
The new CBA is possibly changing this; maybe for this year. That’s still up in the air at the moment.
Really dubious at this point that type-A's (or whatever we call them in the future) don't net compensation
I think things have evolved to the point where type-B’s may be done away with, but there’ll still be some kind of compensation for the top tier. We just don’t know what that’ll look like yet.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
What about him?
Do you want to pay $6-8mil per season to a guy that may or may not be good player?
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 15, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
It’d be a better risk than Kawakami was for similar money.
Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."
And if all else fails
he can cook at the new barbeque joint at the Ted.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Smileyface.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 16, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Young makes entirely no sense
And to be honest I haven’t liked any of the names linked to a Prado trade except Fowler
by drumzalicious on Nov 15, 2011 4:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Which is just how Wren likes it.
If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02
by king of games on Nov 15, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Jay Bruce.
Make it happen Wren.
The Pirates are not going to trade Andrew McCutchen - please stop suggesting this.
man
If that happened.
Frank Wren would gain so many points in my book.
by drumzalicious on Nov 15, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Votto.
Oh my…that would be so awesome.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think you misspelled "unrealistic" there.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
JJ+Freeman+Vizzy
That at least has to get the Reds thinking.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Especially
since they are considering unloading Votto in the first place.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
For Shields
Who has health advantages big over JJ, but has been inconsistent the last few years from elite this year to downright hurting his team last season…
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Nov 15, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
Not to MLB network
They were discussing it as an active trade discussion at their live show this evening…
Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)
Twitter: @biggentleben
by biggentleben on Nov 15, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
That makes me feel better
because it looked like you were suggesting a JJ for Votto swap.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Oh come on. You know me better than that.
If we are talking a swap, the Reds better be throwing in Chapman and Bruce.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Wasn't sure if it was a real suggestion or a sarcastic one
so I just made a joke.
/default defense mechanisms: activated.
So, if JJ alone nets us Votto, Chapman, and Bruce, what do we get for JJ + Freeman + Vizzy? Their entire 25-man roster?
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
No – just the good ones off the 25-man.
My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.
by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT
by justincredubil02 on Nov 15, 2011 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
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