Alex Gonzalez and Dan Uggla recognized as TC's Atlanta Braves Fielding MVP and LVP
by royhobbs on Oct 6, 2011 10:31 AM EDT
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Depending on the stats you decide to look at, the Braves could range from being a good defensive team (.987 FP%, 2nd best NL), bad defensive team (-23.2 UZR, 3rd worst NL), or a lucky team that relies on some spectacular saves (24 DRS, 6th best NL). But we're not here to discuss the defense of the team as a whole; today, we're here to discuss which individuals on the Braves were the best and worst fielders on the squad.
The baseball gods may have forgotten to bless Alex Gonzalez with at least some average-level offensive talent, but boy did they compensate on the defensive end. Sometimes stats can quantify the talent, sometimes they can't. The fact is, that Alex Gonzalez has a gun for an arm, and above-average range, and the athleticism necessary to make some seemingly unconvertible plays into outs.
Sometimes the best way to explain is through visual aid. You might want to get some popcorn ready, and enjoy some of Alex Gonzalez's 2011 fielding brilliance, as provided by MLB.com
In terms of the numbers, Ultimate Zone Rating isn't particularly kind to A-Gon, tagging him with a -0.3 UZR. But delving into stats more associated with John Dewan's Plus-Minus system, sheds a little bit more light into Gonzalez's defensive prowess. A-Gon's 17 rPM (+/- Runs Saved) is the best among MLB shortstops, and his 15 DRS (Defensive Runs Saved) are the best among National League shortstops (2nd MLB). A testament to his range, Alex was credited with 69 plays made out of his "zone," which only Yuniesky Betancourt is the only other shortstop in the NL who can say they made more.
So although Alex Gonzalez is the worst hitter on the team, when it comes to flashing the leather, there isn't anyone better. Jason Heyward makes a little bit of noise out of right field, with his 17 rPM, 15 DRS, and a generous 8.6 UZR, but shortstop is vastly the more important defensive position, which is why he gets all the glory. Does his defense make up for the lack of offense? Crudely, his 77 wRC+ isn't completely covered by the 15 defensive runs saved, so I would have to say no.
But darn if he isn't a treat to watch defensively sometimes, the way he manages to leap over barreling base runners, and somehow manage to get enough arm on a throw to Freddie Freeman, while still in mid-air.
Fielding LVP
Although to those watching, Dan Uggla looked to be plenty beyond the defensive anchor most concluded he was perceived as, mostly in part to an ugly 2008 All-Star Game, the truth of the matter remains, that Dan Uggla is a below-average fielder. Defensive ratings are a difficult thing to appease, and much of it still remains subjective to a degree. Regardless, when examining the numbers on the Braves as a whole, as well as compared to second basemen around the rest of the National League, as well as all of Major League Baseball, Dan Uggla's defense still unfortunately hovers around the lower quartile.
His -12.2 UZR is second worst on the team; Freddie Freeman ranks worse, but UZR is a particularly controversial subject when grading first basemen, so we're overlooking this aspect, not to mention Freeman's uncanny ability to pick and scoop balls out of the dirt (45, 2nd NL). It's the worst among all second basemen in the NL as well as MLB. His -3 rPM is third worst in the NL and MLB, and his -9 DRS is tied with Orlando Hudson for worst in the NL and MLB. And according to Fangraphs' Revised Zone Rating, Uggla's .817 is in the lower half of all major league second basemen.
Not ignored is Nate McLouth, who was essentially a butcher out in center field. Had he not been limited to just 498 innings as opposed to Uggla's team-most 1,431 innings on the field, he might have been in this position instead.
It's a good thing that Uggla's a monster with the bat, and his 109 wRC+ would probably have looked a whole lot spiffier had he not started the season so poorly. But for what it's worth, as much as I would prefer to have my second baseman with slightly more range, Uggla certainly does look a lot more comfortable with Turner Field as his home park as opposed to Sun Life Robbie Player Shark Stadium, giving a little bit of credence to the allegations that their football surface was often detrimental to baseball fielders.
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You shut your mouth about Dan’s lower quartile. It’s fantastic. I remember there was a lot of concern about Dan’s fielding when he came to Atlanta. Jacob put together a great post explaining that Uggla wasn’t really as bad as his reputation indicated. So my questions is, though he’s the TC LVP, did he meet, exceed or fall short of expectations in that category?
Unrelated: You never know when Mike Fontenot is going to photo bomb a Brave.
I’m here to kick ass and drink sweet tea, and dammit, I’m all out of sweet tea.
Considering Uggla is like 4'11
His lower quartile would essentially be his knees to his feet. You’re not one of those guys into feet or something now, are you?
Personally, he exceeded my expectations. He ate a ton of dirt laying out for baseballs, but overall, I’ve been generally pleased by his effort all year.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
Saved some runs, too
although it didn’t qualify as an assist or a PO, he was able to knock down some balls that other 2B might’ve given up on.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
Okay, fine. His middle quartile. Though I have discovered in recent days that I appreciate thighs much more than I thought. That’s another story.
Also, I’m a little disappointed no one took advantage of the phrase, “Dan’s fielding” to make a Night Court joke.
I’m here to kick ass and drink sweet tea, and dammit, I’m all out of sweet tea.
No jokes probably because those of us old enough to watch Night Court have our memory failing us (it’s the first thing to go, you know). But thanks for taking me (waaaaaaay) back.
Owning the Patriots since September 9, 1960
you obviously forgot
memory is the 2nd thing to go…problem is i can’t remember what the first thing is…
Melky was a fail, but that was Melky’s fault, or the fault of Atlanta for having awesome cheeseburgers and ribs.
by Broccoman on Feb 21, 2011 4:11 PM EST
Ouch. Yes, we are that old.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
and Markie Post turns 61 next month.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
I was seven when that show was cancelled in 1992.
I’m here to kick ass and drink sweet tea, and dammit, I’m all out of sweet tea.
I do rememeber when he wasn’t hitting he seemed to make some really good plays defensively but when he started hitting not so much.
Lead off walks usually lead to runs, unless they don't. -Joe Simpson
If you don't like the way the Atlanta Braves are playing, then you don't like baseball. -Chuck Tanner
And on a side note
Apparently John Schurholtz doesn’t agree
We witnessed an historic hitting streak by Dan Uggla and his incredible defense all year.
Lead off walks usually lead to runs, unless they don't. -Joe Simpson
If you don't like the way the Atlanta Braves are playing, then you don't like baseball. -Chuck Tanner
You can’t see range as well as you can see errors. His accuracy was good, but not his range.
by TBuzz on Oct 6, 2011 11:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Uggla's range is really not as bad as one might think
I would say, IMO, his range really is only lessened when he is going to his right, or on plays up the middle.
This really could be though that for the majority of the time he plays a fairly good distance away from the bag.
I would say, overall, I was mmore than pleased with Uggla’s defense. He def. exceeded my expectations.
Labeling him as our worst defender really, to me is not fair. The Braves, defense as a whole is pretty solid. So , if I had to it would really be difficult to name THAT guy, although I would say it was Mr. Nasty Nate
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
by chicagobullies on Oct 6, 2011 7:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Would Uggla’s fielding hurt the team more in 2B or LF?
My thinking is that if Pastornicky does well- we could try moving Uggla to LF, and play Pastornicky at 2B, where his weakness defensively wouldn’t matter- he’d be a stellar defensive 2B. Uggla’s bat loses some value in LF- but 36 HR’s in LF you can’t complain about too much. I’d trade some HR’s for some OBP though.
Pastornicky’s bat would have to be equal to Prado’s for this to work though.
One thing I’ve noticed- JJ/Hanson/Beachy/Minor- they all seem to be flyball/strikeout pitchers- this probably makes defense matter a little less.
I’m not going to knock Uggla too much for his defense- it’s clear that he tries his best and gives 100% every play, he just isn’t that great at it.
Re: Uggla in LF
I have a hard time picturing that, but maybe. I have no idea if he has anything resembling an “outfield arm”. He runs well enough to handle the position, but would likely have to work on route running (like Prado).
Bourn might have to cheat further to LF with Uggla out there, I would think – but Lord help him if there was a collusion: Bourn would be bounced worse than a Hummer hitting a Vespa.
Overall: I just don’t think defense is the Braves’ problem right now. Offense, clearly. But to upgrade this, I think Uggla stays put and LF gets a change. Maybe other places, too.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
by carpengui on Oct 6, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if they weren't going to move Uggla to left because of Prado, why would they do it for the Pastor?
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
This deserved a rec for sheer hilarity in the visual...
of a Hummer hitting a Vespa… Imagine if it was a short fly ball to center and Heyward and Uggla collided w/ Bourn… That would not be pretty…. Talk about getting stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Oct 7, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I am sorry, but...
I just cant get into the deep numbers and stats of baseball when they contradict what I see with my own eyes. All these stats talk about woulda shoulda coulda, that play easy, this play wasnt, those players were lucky. Since when can a stat speak to or prove luck. Its all a bit too much for me. With the right amount of numbers you can prove just about anything you want, whether it makes sense or not.
I watch most of the games, and to me, obviously Alex was awesome, but Uggla seemed at least average, which was better than we expected. And Freeman looked like a gold glover, but for any stat to show he was the worst on the team…thats just crazy talk. And I dont do crazy.
I get what you're saying
Defense rating is still highly subjective, and there are far too many variables involved in it to not create this endless debate between stats and what you see.
But the bottom line is after you were satisfied by watching Dan Uggla all of 2011, and then he were magically replaced by someone like Brandon Philips or Ian Kinsler in 2012, you would probably be baffled at by how much more efficient defensive production is out of the 2B position. That’s what the numbers might better justify.
No wonder nobody likes you, Tuttle... everything's a (Pujols) damn debate.
I feel like I agree with Mike, but then you are likewise also undeniably right. I suppose if the evident effort wasn’t there, we’d think otherwise on Dan’s performance.
"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11
Just like scoops doesnt calculate in a player’s UZR, turning the 4-6-3 doesnt either. Dan turns it better than any 2b in Braves’ past. He deserves credit here.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Uggla and Freeman are really bad at ranging to ball between 1st and 2b.. You just brushed those hits away as nothing they could have done about it, but good defenders would have taken away a lot more of those hits. It makes a big difference especially with two GB specialists. That’s the issue that people fail to recognize.
Oh my...
I just cant get into the deep numbers and stats of baseball when they contradict what I see with my own eyes. All these stats talk about woulda shoulda coulda,
Lock your doors. They will be creeping out of their basements looking for you. :^O
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby
So who gets LVP then, McCann?
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
How many runs does -12.2 UZR equate to?
by TBuzz on Oct 6, 2011 11:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
-12 runs, -1.2 wins.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Addendum...
Not precisely, but Fangraphs considers each point of UZR as a run and the ratio between runs and wins is almost 10-to-1.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
As cool as the "out of his zone" stat is for AGon
…the fact that Yunelescobar Betancourt is the only one who’s had more doesn’t instill a lot of confidence in the stat, for me.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
He may not have much range...
…but he can really turn the double-play at 2nd. He transfers the ball fast, gets a lot on the throws, and doesn’t let himself get taken out of the play.
I would go LVP Heyward. I though Uggla was decent and Heyward made a lot of bad reads, and his accuracy on throws was off more than on when people tested his arm.
Heyward was one of our best defenders
The Fielding Bible guys (a mixture of sabr guys and old school baseball types) voted Heyward 3rd best RF in both leagues last season.
This season they don’t announce til the week before Gold Gloves, but one of the main FB guys expects him to be near the top again.
Yup, my eyes told me Chipper’s range at 3rd was poor, Heyward’s jumps and reads were very poor at times, and McCann’s defense was poor almost all year. It looks like fangraphs almost completely disagrees with me.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Freeman
Freddie may be the best I have ever seen at picking up throws in the dirt. I imagine he saved a ton of runs this season compared to what we had last year (Glaus). Freddie’s range is absolutely non-existent though. He doesn’t get to anything that is remotely hard hit near him. I’m pretty sure he saves more runs on bad throws he picks up than runs he gives up by having such horrible range. Oh and he probably saves a few runs as well with his incredible stretch on close plays.
This team could most definitely benefit from some intense offseason yoga.
Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?
Range is more aptitude than anything else…
by TBuzz on Oct 6, 2011 7:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Worse case scenario injury risk is decreased which is by itself a very worthy cause.
Sgt.: Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me! Now, the passion fruit.
Too risky
TL2 might go into shock if Uggla, McCann, and Conrad are all doing Downward Facing Dog before a game.
Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com
by duwanis on Oct 6, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This thread is full of hilarity… Too fun.
Don’t worry about older women until you turn 22. It’s called the Saltalamacchia.
by bwellnjonesco on May 19, 2011 4:13 PM PDT
by Klemson Krash on Oct 7, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Prado is a great all-around player, but
If we keep moving him having to adjust to a new position like some people are clammering for, then we can expect him to struggle mightily with the bat again.
Also, one of Prado’s biggest trouble this year was adjusting his approach back to the #2 spot along with his focus being primarily on learning LF. Parrish most likely did not help matters either.
Sometimes I wake up grumpy; other times I let her sleep.
by chicagobullies on Oct 7, 2011 3:22 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Although at this point...
there is no “new” position unless the insane idea of SS comes about. He’s been at 2B, 3B, 1B, and LF considerably by now, so it’s more a return to any position instead of being “new”.
http://sportsandgrits.com/
it's gotta be supremely difficult to move around though,
and still be a force at the plate. utility guys are usually light-hitting for a reason.
Braves.
Falcons.
Gamecocks.
Right now...my concern isnt defense
It is our offense.
However, Uggla exceeded my expections on defense. And i have no problems keeping A-gon around for his defense until our future SS is ready. A-gon is a stud on defense.
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