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Around SBN: Rondo On Slowing Heat: 'They've Got To Hit The Deck, Too'

Chipper Jones and Alex Gonzalez headline TC’s Atlanta Braves Hitting MVP and LVP

Good thing there's going to be a fielding MVP later, right Alex?

As it's said so often, baseball isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. That being said, in a season that saw some absolutely torrid offensive stretches from the likes of Brian McCann, Freddie Freeman, and especially Dan Uggla, when the dust settled on the 162-game marathon, it was still Chipper Jones's quiet consistency that leads him to being named Talking Chop's hitting MVP for the 2011 season.


Chipper Jones

#10 / Third Base / Atlanta Braves

6-4

210

B

R

Apr 24, 1972


Not bad for the old man, who will be turning the big four-oh shortly after the start of next season, huh?

Star-divide

Chipper Jones played in 126 games, and in 512 plate appearances, put up a line of .275/.344/.470 (.814 OPS), and hit 33 doubles, 18 home runs, and plated 70 RBI, while scoring 56 times himself. Did you know that in his 18 season career, Chipper Jones has never recorded an OPS of under .803? Even the great Mickey Mantle and Eddie Murray can't make such a claim to their careers.

Despite Dan Uggla cranking out 36 home runs, it's Chipper Jones, whose .470 slugging percentage on the year led the team overall. His 0.64 BB/K ratio is tied for the best on the team, and his 80 strikeouts are second lowest on the squad for players with over 350 plate appearances. Chipper's 10% walk rate is second best on the team (51 total walks (3rd)), and he got on base the tune of a .345 wOBA (T-2nd). Jones' 3.1 offensive WAR was second on the team, and as for his team-leading accumulated WPA of +2.594, McCann, Uggla and Freeman, combined, barely surpasses that mark.

Obviously, there are probably a lot of you right now scratching your heads to how this conclusion was arrived to, since there were several other great MVP-caliber performers throughout the season; namely Brian McCann, Freddie Freeman, and Dan Uggla. Basically, I took a handful of hitter-specific statistics,* and the hitting slash lines from every month, as well as the final slash lines, and compared all four candidates' numbers. By including the month-to-month numbers, it reveals and reward/punishes the stretches where guys were either blistering hot, or ice cold. Note: all defensive metrics are ignored for this; it's hitting MVP/LVP, we will be doing a fielding MVP/LVP later.

*oWAR, rRAR, BABIP, wOBA, BB%, K%, ISO, H, HR, RBI, BB, K, SF, GIDP

2011mvps_medium

Using a point system that awarded four points for every first place finish (gold), three for second (silver), two for third (bronze), and one for fourth, I went down the lists, and marked accordingly who placed where. When all the marking was done, and the points tallied, Chipper Jones comes out on top with 97 total points. Brian McCann notched 92, Freddie Freeman 89, and Dan Uggla 81.

Brian McCann actually had more first place finishes than anyone else, but Chipper cleaned up on second and third place finishes, and most importantly, rarely finished fourth. On all slash lines, Chipper's batting average, OBP, or slugging, does not fall below third at any point of the season.

There was a lot of debate about this between the TC crew, about pure stats versus the obvious times where McCann, Freeman, and Uggla simply carried the offensive loads at various times of the season, as indicative of guys having triple crown months. But these were all still periodic bursts of excellence and not consistent through the whole years; McCann was hot at the start, Freeman in the middle, Uggla a little afterward. This is where the scoring system kind of helps, because it recognizes the stretches of brilliance by some guys, but also the periods where they cooled off or were ice cold outright, all while Chipper Jones amassed silvers and bronzes while avoiding fourths almost completely.

If you want sweet peripherals, Brian McCann is certainly the man (1st: OBP, oWAR, rRAR, wOBA, BB%). However, after the oblique injury, he wasn't quite the same, and it showed as he limped through the last two months of the season. Who could forget Dan Uggla's transformation from being a contractual regret, to the man who threatened Joe DiMaggio, slugging all the way (1st: HR, RBI, BB, ISO, R)? And if this is the start of Freddie Freeman's career, there's an extremely bright future for him, and all of us Braves fans.

These were all great stories from the 2011 season. But behind the scenes, it was none other than the old guy, Chipper Jones, quietly putting together another solid season, as indicative by the lack of blank, doing what he's been doing his whole career; getting on base, delivering timely hits, and proving that consistency always reigns supreme.

* * * * *

For every success story, naturally there is one of failure. Using a similar approach to name an MVP, we took a look at three Braves who were considered disappointments throughout the year: Alex Gonzalez, Martin Prado, and Jason Heyward. After tabulating the scores, I suppose this doesn't come as much of a surprise to most of you guys:


Alex Gonzalez

#2 / Short Stop / Atlanta Braves

5-11

215

R

R

Feb 15, 1977


It wasn't even close, either. As disappointed as a lot of us fans were in the production of Martin Prado and Jason Heyward, the scores weren't even close. Out of 35 categories, Alex Gonzalez placed last in 20 of them. If not for his hot September, it would have been worse. Overall, Alex Gonzalez finishes with 56 points, with Jason Heyward and Martin Prado both scoring 78.

2011lvps_medium

In all fairness, the organization, and us fans were relying on Prado and Heyward to contribute significantly more than what they did, and there wasn't nearly as much expectation out of Alex Gonzalez. Still, from an offensive standpoint, Alex Gonzalez's offensive production could barely be considered replacement level, and his predictable at-bats with poor plate discipline and propensity to ground into double plays (19, 1st) when not striking out were many a new white hair or five for Braves fans. So again, it shouldn't be much of a surprise that A-Gon is our hitting LVP. Thank goodness we're going to be doing a fielding MVP/LVP later on this off-season!

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I think Pastornicky should get every chance to win the job in 2012. Between him and Brandon Hicks, I think they should be able to hold the job down and we don’t need Gonzalez to come back. Yes he’s great defensively, but both of these guys are fine shortstops as well.

Pastornicky
2010 (A+ & AA) – .257/.343/.373 with 71 k’s, 55 BB’s, in 421 AB’s and 35 SB’s, and 12 errors
2011 (AA & AAA) – .314/.353/.414 with 45 K’s, 32 BB’s, in 512 AB’s and 27 SB’s, and 26 errors

Hicks
2010 – (AAA) – .252/.343/.466 with 137 k’s, 41 BB’s, in 407 AB’s and 13 errors (between SS & 3B)

Yes Hicks strikes out a lot, but I think he is more suited for 3B than SS and could be a good heir apparent to Chipper if Prado doesn’t work out. He at least is showing more pop with the bat now which is better suited for 3B.

I’m all for Pastornicky as our SS in 2012!

by Dave_D on Oct 4, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brandon Hicks is chop liver IMO, I do not see him ever being a productive MLB player

by Beck Dawg on Oct 4, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

He has shown no signs of being anything but a AAAA player.

Pastornicky’s lack of pop in AAA is a little concerning in the context of being a 2012 starter. From what I know (which is somewhat limited), he still really needs another full or near full season at AAA to establish his ability to go gap-to-gap and compliment his speed potential. The low strikeouts in 2011 bodes well, but it seemed to come at the expense of some weakly hit balls.

by crimsonqueen9 on Oct 4, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

When has reality EVER stopped the people here from believing that some prospect is going to be a LOT better than he likely will be? Damn, you could hardly mention Jordan Schafer’s name without guys practically engaging in some kind of pathetic circle jerk about how “great” he was going to be. It’s only now that he’s on another team that most of the people here are saying things like how they “knew” he’d never be more than a bench player and he’s not all that good, yada yada yada.

Hicks is kind of old for a “prospect”. Geez, other than a little power I’m not seeing anything in his minor league stats that convinces me he could put up better numbers than what we got out of Gonzo this year. If Brandon Hicks starts at the major league level, the Braves are NOT going to make the playoffs.

by Zontar on Oct 5, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Conveniently forgetting the whole severe wrist injury thing

The Jordan Schafer Fan Club.

by acie4mvp on Oct 5, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

…which you know from 28 major league plate appearances? Completely disregarding a strong year in AAA. I have no idea if he could be a legitimate option long term at shortstop, but neither do you and that seems pretty ridiculous to say

The Jordan Schafer Fan Club.

by acie4mvp on Oct 5, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

His 40% strikeout rate in AAA this year is a pretty good indication he won’t have much success in the Majors.

I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com

by cbwilk on Oct 5, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

So these are not positionally-adjusted, right?

In my opinion, .3 oWAR out of LF is signicantly worse than .2 oWAR at SS.

Likewise, 3.1 oWAR at 2b > 3.1 oWAR at 3b.

"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."

by Cream on Oct 4, 2011 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Nevermind

Wow- what a brain fart.

"The Braves could use [Loney] at first base to help back up Freddie Freeman, and in return the Dodgers could get Tommy Hanson from the Braves."

by Cream on Oct 4, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jason

was our best OF not named Bourn we should obviously trade him

by Erihury on Oct 4, 2011 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for doing the research

and confirming what I thought my eyes were telling me. Chipper Jones was a solid contributor all year. I, for one, am looking forward to one more year of pappaw @ 3rd.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

by adc62 on Oct 4, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Chipper obviously listened to Parrish the least.

That’s not surprising, since he’s been in the league over 15 years.

by another simpsons avatar on Oct 4, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Whole serious

Why not? Frank Robinson was player manager, why not a player coach? Who’s out there that would be better??

by USAFCCF on Oct 4, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know he isn't already

several players admitted to going to Jones to help fix thier swing over the course of the season

Chopmaster: my link is my dad who has watched the braves since I don’t know. he’s 56.

by austinhb on Oct 4, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look at father time go.Old man still doin’ work.

If we can land [Stephen Drew], I will give FW a bj.
~justincredubil02

by king of games on Oct 4, 2011 12:37 PM EDT reply actions  

We need to find a way to make it possible for Chipper to play forever. I really hope he pulls a Julio Franco and just keeps coming back year after year. He is such a good hitter that I feel he could be a very consistent contributor even when the physical skills are almost non-existent, he’s that good.

by DBelt on Oct 4, 2011 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Everbody says a hitting coach make no difference

I truly think if we had a decent hitting coach Alex would have done better. Stop and think for just a moment, what if we had the Royals HC? They were 5th in both leagues in hitting,not to mention stolen bases. I personally want to know why the Braves put out mediocre(TP) to poor (LP) Batting coaches in the last few years. Where is a great batting coach, they do make a difference. TP is definitely better than Parrish but he is no Jarramillo. TP was one demensional in his coaching, he helped some but not other players. That is why everyone wanted him gone the last couple of years. The idea that a good coach makes no difference is asinine. Unless you have the top hitters in both leagues you need a good too excellent hitting coach. If the Braves had kept TP we would be in the playoffs now. If we had a Don Baylor, we might have put the Phillies in the wild card, THAT is how good our lineup was going into 2011. Doesn’t the Braves have an excellent BC in AAA?

Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher

by jimmontg on Oct 4, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't agree in this instance...

Alex Gonzalez has had at least a handful of different hitting coaches during his career, which has spanned five teams (Red Sox twice). You have to figure at least one of those teams had a pretty decent hitting coach, but he’s the same player, year-in and year-out.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 5, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alex as Hitting LVP? No surprise.

We need to stop thinking of him as a poor hitting position player, and start thinking of him like he’s a really good hitting pitcher.

Q: If not us, who? If not now, when? A: The Batman. And "when you least expect it."

by Lennox on Oct 5, 2011 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Of all qualified MLB SS

Alex ranked 2nd to last in WAR, beating out Betancourt
Alex ranked 3rd to last in wRC+
Alex ranked 3rd to last in wOBA
Alex ranked last in OBP
Alex ranked last in AVG
Alex ranked 2nd to last in K%
Alex ranked 2nd to last in BB%
Alex ranked 3rd to last in SB
Alex ranked 4th to last in runs scored
Alex ranked 4th to last in hits

But hey, he did rank 6th in HRs, so he can still hit DINGERZ!

If he is our starting SS in 2012, I will be more vocal than you have ever seen me before.

The man barely belongs on a roster, let alone starting for a contender.

He is the worst offensive SS in baseball. Hell, he’s one of the worst offensive players in baseball, regardless of position.

Of all qualified MLB hitters:

Alex ranked 4th to last in OBP
Alex ranked 8th to last in wRC+
Alex ranked 6th to last in wOBA
Alex ranked 19th to last in AVG
Alex ranked 30th to last in K%
Alex ranked 3rd to last in BB%

Does anyone STILL want to bring him back next season???

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 12:35 AM EDT reply actions  

.241 with 15 homers and a spectacular glove at shortstop? Yeah bring him back unless we can upgrade cheaper.

Proud perpetrator of yelling "Money MIke" at Oracle Arena since Dunleavy's trade to the Pacers.

by 15ks on Oct 5, 2011 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope that Frank Wren can see through the smoke and mirrors better than you can.

Do you not see how absolutely awful he was at EVERY offensive category, save HRs?

The man will be 35 next season.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

BTW,

you do realize that .241 is terrible when coupled with a .260-ish OBP, right? You talk like .241 is acceptable. Do you see where that his average was LAST among qualified SS?

I’ll take a guy with a .320+ OBP and 1 HR every day of the week over Alex. Alex is horrible.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like 1 HR every day of the week too

Those add up fast.

Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com

by duwanis on Oct 5, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well played. The funny thing is, this is a properly structured sentence. I guess I could have put a descriptive prepositional phrase after HR…

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta love English.

Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com

by duwanis on Oct 5, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nitpick...
Alex ranked 3rd to last in wRC+
Alex ranked 3rd to last in wOBA
He is the worst offensive SS in baseball.

How can you list a bunch of composite stats that weight values properly with Alex being 3rd to last, etc., and then make the determination that he’s the worst SS??

You’re contradicting yourself in the space of 15 lines, or exaggerating.

I’m not saying he’s good, mind you. Far from it. He’s one of the worst…but it’s those types of statements that make a good argument null and void.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 5, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I value OBP very much.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I will concede

that Betancourt is probably THE worst, but it’s not by much.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have him at 7th worst...

Just put up a Fanpost concerning the SS situation using three-year samples, and I’d say that’s fair.

Betancourt
Cesar Izturis
Ronny Cedeno
Orlando Cabrera
Jack Wilson
Edgar Renteria (that was a big surprise)
Alex Gonzalez

Not surprisingly, every one of those players are available this offseason.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 5, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think only 1 of those “qualified” on Fan Graphs, thus giving us the difference in our lists.

I would agree on most of those being worse as an all around SS, but offensively, it’s hard to put more than 1 or 2 guys below Alex.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every single one of them had worse offensive numbers.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 5, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess that’s why they aren’t every day players, except for a couple.

Either way, Alex is either one of the worst 3 everyday SS or he is one of the worst 7 SS in MLB.

My dad taught me how to make meat for sloppy joes and my mom let me turn over hot dogs on the grill.

by ChopMaster on Jun 25, 2011 7:25 PM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Oct 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

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