Bad Contracts...

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 1:43 PM EDT

Many are pondering the ever popular Rosterbation scheme of swapping our crap for someone's else's crap. We've seen it with McLouth and Kawakami basically every offseason they were Braves. We've seen it with Derek Lowe after '09 (not in '10's offseason because he pitched above his head for a frickin' month making almost all believe he's back to form). Well, this offseason, we once again are fantasizing Derek Lowe's departure by taking on a bad contract. Here is an extensive list of all players deemed under poor contracts (which, in their minds, are actually quite good contracts).

*Some on the list might not be considered poor contracts per se' , but are players coming off a horribly bad year and are owed lots of money. Some numbers might be a bit off so feel free to comment in the thread if so.

Pitchers

A.J. Burnett: 2yrs/33 million

Rafael Soriano: 2yrs/25 million

Fernando Rodney: 1 yr/5.5 million

Brett Myers: 1yr/11 million (with 3 million buyout in 2013 or guaranteed 10 million performance based)

Carlos Zambrano: 1yr/19 million ( YIKES)

Chad Billingsley: 2yrs/35 million ('15 club option)

Barry Zito: 2yrs/46million (option in '15 that will be declined)

Ricky Nolasco: 2yrs/20.5 million

Johan Santana: 2yrs/55 million ('14 option/buyout)

Bronson Arroyo: 2yrs/23.5 million

Daisuke Matsuzaka: 1yr/10.3 million

Jake Peavy: 1yr/22 million

John Lackey: 3yrs/48 million

Catchers

Joe Mauer: 5yrs/112 million

1B/3B/DH/Utility types

Kevin Youkilis (borderline bad contract due to inability to stay healthy): 1yr/13.25 million

Ryan Howard: 5yrs/115 million

Justin Morneau: 2yrs/30 million

Adam Dunn: 3yrs:44 million

Juan Uribe: 2yrs/16 million

Travis Hafner: 1yr/15.75 million

Chone Figgins: 2yrs/18 million

Second Basemen

Freddy Sanchez: 1yr/6 million

Brian Roberts: 2yrs/20 million

Shortstops

Derek Jeter: 2yrs/36 million

Hanley Ramirez: 3yrs/46.5 million

Outfielders

Ichiro Suzuki: 1yr/18 million

Jason Bay: 2 yrs/39.25 million ('14 option that will be declined)

Nick Markakis: 3ys/43 million

Carl Crawford: 6yrs/127 million

Alex Rios: 3yrs/39.5 million

Vernon Wells: 3yrs/73 million

Torii Hunter: 1yr/18 million

Bobby Abreu (borderline bad contract): 1/9 million

Carlos Lee: 2yrs/38 million

Alfonso Soriano: 3yrs/57 million (YIKES!)

Jayson Werth: 6yrs/121 million

This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.

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Comments

Some players are here because they are attached to the Franchise...

Derek Jeter, Joe Mauer, and Ichiro Suzuki are future HOFers who you pay more than what they’re worth because you’d like to retire their number one day.

Mauer might be the exception, he was putting up HOF numbers as a Catcher, not a 1B or RF.

by TBuzz on Oct 11, 2011 2:14 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed. Just listing all that have poor contracts compared to their output.

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Ryan Howard's might be the worst of them all

Over the last 3 seasons Howard only ranks 10th (10th!!!) in OPS amongst 1st baseman despite playing in a hitting inflated ballpark. He makes more money than any of them and will continue to get more as his contract hasn’t even started yet. He’s older than most of the 1st basemen in comparison and plays poor defense and is a terrible baserunner. We’ve already seen the peak of Howard’s career and we will continue to see his numbers decline for the length of the contract. Factor in the fact he needs surgery for an Achilles tendon (which can cause a long absence and have lingering effects) and this is a contract that actively devalues the Phillies franchise. This might be the worst extension ever.

by another simpsons avatar on Oct 11, 2011 2:57 PM EDT reply actions

You convinced me...

added!

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

I have advocated for a while in agreement with you fine sir. Ryan Howard’s cotnract is, to me, the worst contract ever given out. There was no upside to the extension as his decline phase had already started. there is no way he gets that contract on the open market this year (even without the injured achilles)

"No. Lonely people mixing with one another? Breeding? Creating an even lonelier generation? You're not even allowing natural selection do its work. Pssh. You're like the guy who invented the seat belt."

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Oct 12, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions

One bad season, does not make for a terrible contratct......

So IMHO remove the names of Hanley, Carl, Ichiro, and Joe.

by SB75 on Oct 11, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions

see * in original post...

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

None fits...

I skimmed through each of the teams yesterday, and came to the same conclusion. This list pretty much confirms that for me.

The ones that are closer fits won’t happen, i.e. Hunter (full no-trade, doesn’t want to move), Youkilis (value difference perceived to be way different).

Bay would be the other one I’d look twice at, but the chances of that occurring in-division is pretty slim. The Mets would have to kick in on that one, and the money just isn’t right. Bay’s perceived upside is also significantly greater, I think, so I don’t see any reason for the Mets to seriously consider it…even if they move in the fences, Citi is going to play big and that situation is better for a FB pitcher and/or the hitter.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 11, 2011 3:40 PM EDT reply actions

One that could work is Abreu. With Morales and Trumbo already logjammed at first, Vernon basically immovable, and Trout ready to take over in RF, someone probably has to go. I’d offer Lowe +10 million for Abreu. They’d still have Bourjous, Torii, Trout, Trumbo at first, and Morales as DH. Could work…probably won’t.

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

oh...and Vernon Wells, so...4 OF and 2 First Basemen

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Left-handed OFer. Doesn’t really fit…even with a RH shortstop, you’d be sitting with five lefties, a switch, and two righties.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 11, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

If he was splitting time with Prado while Prado gave rest to Chipper, Uggla, and Freeman, it could work.

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 6:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I don’t really like the idea of paying a guy $9MM to split time…maybe it’s better than paying a guy $15MM to go to the pen, but not by much. I still don’t see it as an ideal swap.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 11, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s a bad contract swap. Nothing is ideal…

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 7:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

Why are we giving that much money if we're taking back Abreu's contract?

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 11, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Because Abreu is better than Lowe...

…and has a smaller contract?

That being said, it looks like we spend $4 million for something we don’t need in that scenario.

by cavebird on Oct 12, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

But Abreu probably isn’t and won’t be better. A 38-year-old outfielder that provided little more than replacement value last season worries me a whole lot more than a 39-year-old pitcher that pitched to his normal peripherals.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 12, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed, but the difference between Abreu and Lowe isn't $10m

http://sportsandgrits.com/

by Mr. Sanchez on Oct 12, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

The way I look at it...

JJ Hoover or some other red-blooded man that makes the minimum will be in the bullpen in place of Lowe if Lowe is traded. Sending 10 million means we’re giving Lowe away for 5 million, and paying only 4.5 million for Hoover and Abreu.

Maybe I’m selling Lowe short, but he was really bad last year. If we were to send Derek Lowe+6 million to the Angels for Abreu, the trade would be even.

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 13, 2011 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions

That list actually makes me feel better about being down to “only” Derek Lowe.

"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11

by carpengui on Oct 11, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions

So, it's big money, I get that

But would it be worth the risk to kick the tires on what the Mets would want back for Johan?

Hey! I’m new.
by ChopMaster on Jul 7, 2011 10:24 PM CDT (joined Jul 19, 2010)

Twitter: @biggentleben

by biggentleben on Oct 11, 2011 5:25 PM EDT reply actions

I have to admit

Jason Bay intrigues me a little. I’m sure the Mets would be more than eager to get him off the books and would probably be willing to take all of Lowe’s salary if the two were to be swapped. When you look at his splits away from Citi Field (2010—.277/.371/.459; 2011—.280/.364/.435) you have to wonder if getting out of there would do him some good, but I’m not so sure if the 16 million he’s owed in 2013 is worth the risk…

by swainzy on Oct 11, 2011 5:46 PM EDT reply actions

He hasnt hit well in his time at Turner...

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, but a 25 game sample isn’t really enough to make a definitive conclusion about his hitting a Turner Field. You also have to consider that he’s been facing some really good Braves pitching the past two seasons when he comes here.

by swainzy on Oct 11, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions

agreed...just the facts at hand

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions

how did jayson werth avoid this list?

"Don't put off til tomorrow what you can put off til the day after tomorrow." -Mark Twain

by SouthernPanther on Oct 11, 2011 6:01 PM EDT reply actions

Overlooked...added

Just Beachy here. How 'bout you?

by ryan c on Oct 11, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Because they’re not going to trade him after one year of that deal.

-C

It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?

by cthabeerman on Oct 11, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Good point…. If Crawford is on the list, Werth should be to.

Also………. The Torii Hunter thing. I know he has a No-trade clause, but I could easily see him waiving it to play for a contender like the Braves. I still have my doubts on if the Angels would do it.

by SB75 on Oct 11, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Doesn't this just make you laugh?

Per Federal Baseball:

Dan Uggla was a bigger bust for them than Jayson Werth was for us.

by a hooter's baby on Oct 11, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions

hmmm

Jayson Werth: .232/.330/.464, .794 OPS, 103 wRC+, 2.5 WAR, 20 HR, 58 RBIs

He’s making $126M over 7 years, which is 18M/yr.

2.5 WAR @ 18M = 7.2M per WAR

Dan Uggla: .233/.311/.453, .764 OPS, 109 wRC+, 2.5 WAR, 36 HR, 82 RBIs

Uggla made $9M this year and will make $13M for the next four.

2.5 WAR @ 9M = 3.6M per WAR, making Uggla EXACTLY twice as valuble per dollar in 2011 as Jayson Werth, and still more valuble per dollar using future contract numbers.

Consider further that if Uggla had started his “good half” of the season 25 games earlier, he’d have been worth 3.5 WAR in 2011, assuming “bad” and “good” half WAR paces remained equal.

Bust. Uh huh.

This has been your math lesson of the day.

by crimsonqueen9 on Oct 11, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Ummmm, no LOLGnats

Even if this was a “down year” by Uggla’s standards, a 2B hitting 36HRs with 82 RBIs at 9 million is not a bust…

especially when compared to a RF with an even lower BA, 16 less HRs, and 24 less RBIs than said “bust” 2B.

If this statement was made in early June, I would have agreed with it, but given Uggla monstrous tear in the second half…um no, LOLGnats, please stop drinking drugs.

All while Fredi is surrounded by a bunch of orangutans, trying to teach them how to bunt the rocks and coconuts that angry 300 lb gorillas are throwing at them,

by royhobbs on Jul 29, 2011 11:20 AM PDT

Strong Side / Weak Side: Chipper Jones

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/chipper-jones,8431/

by Santaklose11 on Oct 12, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

+1

For “drinking drugs.”

I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will take our people out-of-doors, fill them with oxygen, give them a larger physical stoicism. Tend to relieve us from being a nervous, dyspeptic set. Repair these losses, and be a blessing to us. ~Walt Whitman

by Chopaholic on Oct 12, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions

How in the Hell were the Angels even in the conversation for Carl Crawford...

with Abreu, Hunter, and Wells as their OFers pulling in a collective $50MM!!!

by TBuzz on Oct 11, 2011 10:20 PM EDT reply actions

It was before they traded for Wells and the GM was trying to save his job. Didn’t work, I think they fired him this off-season.

by SB75 on Oct 11, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Where is Frenchy?

Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher

by jimmontg on Oct 11, 2011 11:48 PM EDT reply actions

Really?

His contract isn’t in the same universe as those above. $2.5m this year (and I think KC indeed got their money’s worth from that) with a $4m mutual option for 2012. I expect they’ll be happy to put up their end of the option, in fact.

Yes, he had a crummy 2010 with the Mets @ $5m, but that’s still not nearly “bad” – especially by the Mets’ standards.

Of course if you were just being sarcastic, I have to change my answer to “in Kansas City” and chide you for note using “the right font”. It’s a rule…kinda.

"Forget Roy Halladay or Clayton Kershaw or Cliff Lee, the NL Cy Young Award should go to O’Ventrel." - David Schoenfield, ESPN.com, 8/19/11

by carpengui on Oct 12, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Sarcasm isn't fun if you run around advertising it.

Most people use statistics the way a drunk would use a lamppost—for support, and not for illumination.
www.duwanis.com

by duwanis on Oct 12, 2011 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions

he got an extension that 4M mutual option is gone he signed a 2 year deal worth 13.5M over the next two years.

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Oct 12, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Frenchy has been extended by the Royals for 2 years @ 6.75 mil. each year

Wasn’t being sarcastic, there’s no way he’ll be worth that much. The Royals outbid themselves for him.

Senator, we have another old saying,"Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Fletcher

by jimmontg on Oct 12, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

that is essentailly 1.5 WAR each year. he is worth that, his defense alone is worth close to a win each year.

Dwight Schrute

by Swo12bv on Oct 12, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I wonder...

If the Red Sox would be interested in a swap of Derek Lowe and Daisuke Matsuzaka? He had his best years in Boston and might command a little nostalgia value for them. And Dice-K could do with a change of scenery, while Atlanta could probably stand to rehab its image vis-a-vie the Japanese market after the Kawakami debacle.

Or maybe I’ve been awake too long tonight.

by Chopaholic on Oct 13, 2011 6:31 AM EDT reply actions

D-Lowe got run out of town in Boston

He isn’t welcome there from what I’ve read.

by a5ehren on Oct 13, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Ryan Howard's

contract is actually worth $125 million over the 5 years. Yes, it is $115 million over five but the sixth year is worth at least the $10 million buyout of the option.

by atlbravosfan on Oct 13, 2011 6:47 AM EDT reply actions

Ichiro

Are we talking bad contract based on what the team gets on the field w/stats and baseball production or are we talking about bad contract based on what the team will see from jersey sales and ticket sales?

If you are just talking based on what you get on the field, then clearly Ichiro is on the decline.

But, the Mariners get so much money from the Japanese market in jersey sales, and people actually coming out to the park to watch him. Unless you are going to see Felix once every night, who is there on the Mariners that is actually someone you would want to go watch live in person other than Ichiro. If they didnt have Ichiro, their sad ticket sales would be cut in half. I went to Seattle for the Atlanta-Seattle series, and I thought I was seeing the game in Japan.

by Cjones10 on Oct 13, 2011 3:56 PM EDT reply actions