Are the Braves done this off season?
by mikemike080178 on Jan 2, 2011 8:12 PM EST
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PrintComing into this off season, the Braves were pretty well off, compared to many other teams, including those who made the postseason with them. Just like their needs all season, Atlanta came into the off season looking for a power hitting right handed bat. They made a fantastic deal early, acquiring second baseman Dan Uggla from the division rival Marlins, in exchange for utility man,(and first time all-star) Omar Infante, and middle relief prospect, the hard throwing lefty Mike Dunn, whom the Braves acquired last off season in the Javy Vasquez deal. While Infante was invaluable player in2010, and Dunn performed admirably, Uggla has the ability to make the Braves a MUCH better offensive team. If Uggla lives up to expectations, and batting in a better lineup in Atlanta, it is very conceivable for Uggla to have his best offensive season to date. A .280/100/35/100 line seems possibly given his chance to hit cleanup, between Chipper and McCann. Other than the Uggla deal, resigning Eric HInskie and bring Alex Gonzalez back to play SS may have flown under the radar, but these two deals help the Braves offense as well. Letting Troy Glause and Derek Lee go has now given Freddie Freeman the chance to begin the 2011 season as the starter at first base. Martin Prado will now be given the everyday job in LF after the Braves picked up Uggla.
The every day starting lineup is pretty much set, with the CF spot really being the only offensive position up for grabs coming in to spring training. McCann is set at catcher, Freeman at 1rst, Uggla at 2nd, Gonzalez at ss, and Chipper at 3rd. Prado has LF locked down, and Heyward has RF Locked down as well. The players trying to win the cf spot are Nate McLouth, who was an all-star and gold glove winner in 2008, but was horrible last season. Jordan Schafer, once the top prospect in the organization,who has struggled the last two seasons while battling through injury after injury, will be given a hard look again as well. Matt Young, the least known of the three is really a better fit in lf, but has the heart of a lion, and could win the spot with a great spring.Also in the mix will be Joe Mather, whom we picked up.
The starting rotation has its top 4 back, with Mike Minor and Brandon Beachy the two front runners to win the #5 spot. If they both put up respectable numbers during the spring, Minor would more than likely get the nudge, due to fact that he is the only lefty of the bunch. With Billy Wagner retiring, and Saito gone, the closers job,in my opinion, will be between Jonny Venters and Craig Kimbrell. Venters, the lefty, has a power sinker and a good off speed arsenal, and has proven he can pitch good in big games. Kimbrell, the absolutely dominant righty, improved his control during his late season audition with the big club. With the signings of George Sherrill and Scott Linebrink, the bullpen appears ready for a great 2011 season. Really,the only unknown with the team,is going to be new skipper Freddi Gonzalez. How he gels with a well balanced group of veterans and young players could be a big key in how well the team plays.
The only real need left for the Braves is a utility type outfielder. We have Mather, but I am not sure if Atlanta is truly done with big moves. If the Braves can get there hands on a lead off type center fielder, such as, Jacoby Ellsbury or Brett Gardner, and can do so without given up a lot to grab them up, I believe the Braves will jump at the offer. I could even see them trading for Mike Cameron, who may be 38, but can still be a productive part time player. Now, whether they really are done, or they make another big move, the 2011 Braves have a good shot a making the playoffs yet again. I hope they play very well, and as always, GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!
This FanPost does not express the views or opinions of Talking Chop.
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I think Matt Young will be the 4th OF, Schafer will get looked at but sent to AAA to get up to speed. I won’t be surprised if Minor goes to AAA out of ST, Beachy seemed to really impress mgmt. Letting Beachy pitch in MLB might up his trade value, because I see Minor as the long term starter for Atlanta out of those two.
I’m to the point I think Wren is done unless a steal of a deal drops in his lap. He’ll make a trade or two come July.
Free Matt Young!
are you saying
if Beachy pitches well enough to prove he can do well in the majors that Minor will be given more time in AAA, and that this will boost Beachy’s trade value so that he can be traded, Minor brought up, and Teheran left in the minors until another midseason trade?
I see a lot of scenarios.. one I have been thinking about is this:
Wren might be the most active GM around spring training
He has Mclouth, Young, Schaffer and Constanza he wants to look at in CF
- he needs to see if Mclouth cant start
- Schaffer prob wont win the job, but Wren needs to know if he is looking for a longterm or short term solution in CF (if Schaffer is showing signs of bouncing back)
- He needs to see if Young and/or Constanza can approach their MiL stats in the majors
Simultaneously he is looking to see what he has with Minor and Beachy
- If they both pitch really well, one is probably tradable—actually, if they both pitch really well, JJ might be just as tradable. Beachy is just the kind of guy the organization loves, and Minor is a Lefty we like a lot… It will be really interesting, he will likely be listening to offers on all of them.
He will also be looking at Chip, to see how much he might be relying on that 4th OF (to put prado at 3rd)—we really hope constanza and/or young tears it up in the spring (I hope constanza, he is a switch hitter and young bats lefty, like both mclouth and Heyward, anyone have a scouting report on youngs arm vs constanzas?)
He is going to be very active, very open to trades…
I dont think the question is, are we done in the off season?
its, do we have the pieces we want to go into spring training with?
could kawakami possibly get ST starts?
to maybe hopefully boost his trade value?
I doubt we are particularly active in ST.
We’ll probably go with the internal options or a guy we signed before spring training as the 4th and 5th OF’s, and keep all the pitchers. Both Minor and Beachy doing well just means we have 6 SPs; depth we like to have. We’ll either use on of them as the swingman or send one to AAA to stay ready to start. We will obviously deal KK, but hopefully before ST.
I think we hope to not be active during ST
because we hope mclouth gets it together
and we hope constanza and/or young come out strong out of the gates to be the 4th OF
and we hope Chipper is healthy and hitting well
If all of these are true, we will have no holes to fill, and we will be stoked about the opportunity to stash the second of beachy/minor in the long relief role or in AAA
If any of those are not the case, we will have to use one of these guys to fill the hole we find in ST.
I think McLouth is the opening day centerfielder...
…regardless of how he performs in spring training.
Yep.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
probably true unless he strait bommmbbssss
but its the beginning of the evaluation phase on mclouth.. how long do u think he will have to suck before we do something?
I don’t even want to think about it. Frankly, I think they should just eat the cost and fill his spot with anybody else, but since there’s still a chance he could turn it around they’ll probably give him at least until June to do it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
it really is severely depressing to contemplate paying out $6.5M in exchange for hoping and praying that in essentially the best case scenario he provides middling, league average offense and is not massively heinous in CF.
Depressing is very accurate
When you add in what we will have to pay on KK’s contract, we’re looking at nearly 12% of payroll being a possible total waste.
Free Matt Young!
junee!!!!
omg please tell me you see them giving him april and may (with increasing ABs for the 4th OF if he is bombing)
serriously though i am trying to stay hopeful for him
I’m hopeful of winning the lottery, but don’t have very high expectations that it will actually happen.
I’m thinking Minor as a good lefty has a better chance of long term playing time in Atlanta than Beachy, that the Braves might not want to start his clock. I am doubting that Teheran comes up before Sept, with only 7 games in AA, surely he will get nearly a full season at AAA unless an emergency pops up.
Free Matt Young!
I just realized that beachy proved last year he could move from the bullpen to a starting role mid season and still pitch into october, so that might actually encourage us to put him in the BP instead of leaving him stretched out in the minors. This might not be an option for Minor. If he isnt a starting in atlanta we might feel the need to keep him stretched out in AAA instead of letting him contribute as a reliever. This would allow them to both accrue value as major leaguers.
If Minor wins the starting role, I think Beachy has a good shot at being the long reliever
On the other hand, BigHop makes a good point, if Minor is going to pitch long term in atlanta, it might make sense to let him wait until mid season to start his clock later. We might see it as a dream come true to have beachy there to start instead so we can extend another year on minors contract.
The issue there is that if Beachy is pitching well, and Minor is dominating the minors, we would have to trade him or another player midseason. Now this isn’t terrible, in fact, he might be a great and expendable trade chip. The thing is though.. how do you let go of a guy that barreled through the minors and then pitched well in the majors for half a season? That might be the profile of a guy that goes on to get even better.
I think if Beachy starts the season in the rotation and does well, and minor does well and gets called up, knowing Teheran is coming soon, I think JJ or Lowe would get traded (depending on lots of factors about how they are performing in the season)
without injuries
i dont expect we will see Medlen or Teheran until September unless we’ve made a trade and our fifth starter isnt performing that well.
why is that?
Medlen didnt do that and he was fine
and Beachy already showed last year he could go from being a closer to a starter.
and look where Medlen is now.
I agree with cb
Thank you for summarizing the general conversation around TC for the past 2 months. We needed that in a fanpost.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
he put it rather neatly, making sure to check all grammar and spelling
p.s. mike cameron is a silly idea
by JohnRocker4CyYoung on Jan 2, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
saying anything is a silly idea when
your name is JohnRocker4CyYoung is silly.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 3, 2011 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
sorry
i did not really he was making a joke as well
by JohnRocker4CyYoung on Jan 3, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Dont have a problem with presentation
But rather a pointless fanpost.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
I think the reason for the post was to......
Slip in another line….ohhh they got us again!
“A .280/100/35/100 line seems possibly given….”
Although this is a not a stretch, I thought we passed a moritorium on this?
it just felt right and the chance to go to the postseason is hard to pass up. I’ve always respected their orginization… and Bobby…I’m excited. I’m looking forward to it...Derrek Lee (at press conference sayiing he had been traded to the Braves)
I think Kawakami will be dealt.
Frank Wren will probably pull of some deal to get a team to seen us a decent B prospect for him as long as we he’s willing to eat about 3 million on the current deal.
I think that the Pirates, Royals, Orioles, Mariners, A’s and Padres could all be takers on some level.
http://tarpslides-r-us.blogspot.com/
I'm glad we cleared this up...
I had totally forgotten about the Braves over the last few months.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Jan 2, 2011 9:02 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Let’s be honest…I’m the most loved insufferable schmuck in the entire world.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Jan 3, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
"But my mom says I'm cool"-Milhouse Van Houten (coincidence that's the initials are MVH, no s, I think not)
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
At least....
…we aren’t the Mets!
No seriously.
We have a very solid team with a few slight blemishes and holes that other teams would kill for…..
The Nats would covet our depth and farm system. Other than TX and TB we have the best system in MLB in my humble opinion.
I know we need another OF but it will all work out, I’m sure of it.
Our SP’s and RP’s are gold. We are freaking sweating the outfield.
Hell, we did pretty decent without Prado and Chipper when we needed it the most. Granted we had super utility Omar…….but still, we are going to do well.
Aren’t we even in the top 8 in MLB power rankings?
Go Braves!
Nats farm is pretty solid, I’d say Royals are pretty good also.
http://tarpslides-r-us.blogspot.com/
The Nats’ system isn’t really that great. Harper is a stud, and some of the pitchers they picked may be great, but it’s too early to tell. They have no depth in the system and the almost total lack of international talent really hurts them.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
We have the 2nd best farm system in baseball behind the Royals.
"That guy mvhsbball is really an insufferable schmuck." - FuquaManuel
by Scott Coleman on Jan 2, 2011 9:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd say we're in the group behind the Royals...
…but we have plenty of company. Royals are the consensus best farm system in baseball, perhaps the best in many years by anybody. Beyond them, there are several contenders, including us with great pitching but not a ton of hitting, the Rays with good pitching and some solid hitting as well, and a few other teams that I am forgetting at the moment.
ummmm
no. That’s the Rays. We’re the 3rd best.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 3, 2011 7:16 AM EST up reply actions
if the royals farm is so good, then why do they suck so consistently?
groom talent then trade due to a weak payroll?
i hate to think they develop these players so the NYY can continue to buy championships with a subpar farm.
Dayton is an idiot when it comes to FA.
That being said, he came from the Braves org and knows how to use the draft to build for the future. The Royals are so consistently bad because it takes a few years to develop the talent properly and they don’t seem to want to rush the development. Over the next 3 years they should have their entire team of the future up from the minors, supplemented with any possible FA. They’ll be young, but have the potential to be oh-so-good.
PS – You’re last line of thought, I have no idea what you mean. Grienke went to the Brewers so that puts the squash on that.
"Give him the heater Ricky."
Royals system
While Dayton signs free agents about as well as JS did without the coaching staff to coach up the crap heap he finds, he does an excellent job with drafting, developing, and seeking out other teams’ guys. He’s found excellent prospects through trades, and he’s developed a lot as well. JS did one thing well during his time with the Braves, and that was it. I’ve always wondered if he’d have been a better GM during his time given a 10th best payroll instead of a top 5.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Jan 3, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Moore has done the best with what he has available. He has done a great job of building their farm system. The problem the Royals always had was that they would only get one good player to come up at a time, and as we all know one great player doesn’t make the team great. By the time the next player was coming along and earlier player was getting expensive.
Um
They had spent solid money in free agency and lost picks early in his tenure, which is why he had gapping in the top-talent prospects in the organization. He got away from that, and now he has a large glut of high-end players coming up that will all hit between 2011 and 2013, most likely. He misspent terribly on guys like Jose Guillen and Gil Meche, and he paid badly for it, but he seems to be making wiser decisions the last 2-3 years in how he allocates finances, spending more on player development and draft.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Moore got the job in the middle of 2006. How quickly do you think you can make the worst organization in baseball into a viable Major League team? Seems like he should be given a few more years to work on it.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
I'[d agree...
if it weren’t for some of the absolute worst free agent signings in baseball—Melky, French, Yuniesky, Kendall, etc.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
You have to fill a roster somehow until your Minor League system is ready. I think people forget that even their Minor League system was terrible when he took over.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Sure you do...
but not by overpaying clearly unproductive players.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Overpaying is relative. You might have to pay a guy more to choose to play in KC rather than play on a team with even an outside shot at competing.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Then let him go...
if you need “veteran” presence, go for cheap guys happy to be guaranteed big league jobs, and then load up on dime a dozen AAAA guys. If you’re just biding time til kids are ready looking for space filler, what’s wrong with taking fliers on a couple dozen AAAA types, who would most likely jump at a legit chance for an everyday job. They aren’t likely to produce any less than they’ve gotten from Kendall, Betancourt, etc, or will get from Cabrera, French, etc, and you might hit on a diamond in the rough like an Uggla, or at worst a Garrett Jones who you might be able to flip for couple potential contributors at the deadline.
He’s signed multi-year when no one would offer more than one, and much higher than anyone would offer deals on multiple vets that just weren’t going to give any more production than a no-name off the AAAA scrap heap.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
But you’re also running a business and have to put a couple buts in the seats. Having guys who you can at least say, “He’s got 10 years in the Majors” about is a big thing when you’re trying to sell a bad team to folks.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
It's a fine line...
Kansas City isn’t much of a baseball town (the Chiefs and the Jayhawks reign supreme), and he’s got to keep what fanbase they have interested. AAAA guys just can’t do that.
I’ve been to numerous Royals games and have lived close enough to KC that I’ve met lots of Royals fans. Nebraska is a hodge podge of favorite teams, with the Royals having the most fans because they’re closest, followed by the Cubs and Braves (thanks to WGN and TBS)…the Rockies are still relatively new and haven’t received the widespread Midwest fandom that still exists as a result of those George Brett years. I can honestly say that all Royals fans have expected the last few years is the ability to compete for a few months and to see a few familiar names.
The main summer attraction in KC isn’t the Royals, it’s Worlds/Oceans of Fun and, for another crowd, barbecue. Most Midwest families take a two-day flier on Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun and catch a Royals game one of those nights as another activity for the kids.
To many people, that’s all KC is (with the barbecue crowd catching an occasional game as well). I experienced Kansas City two or three days at a time every couple years for exactly the reasons mentioned. One rollercoaster amusement park day, one baseball game, one water slide amusement park day, and some barbecue. Vacation over, drive home.
When your ballclub pulls higher attendance on the road (by an average of 7K, no small amount), you’ve got to do whatever it takes to keep the people at home coming to games. If that means overpaying for Franceour and picking up familiar names (like it or not, Melky is a former Yankee and that alone is enough to get my dad talking about driving 3+ hours with the grandkids for a Royals game…when they play the Yankees, I’m sure), then that’s what they have to do.
As much as they probably hate doing it, signing former Braves players has probably played a significant role in maintaining attendance. That’s about to run out as the number of Braves players seen everyday on TBS are growing fewer by the day, but thankfully they finally have a farm system to fall back on once the “players regularly seen on television” market gives out.
It’s sad, it isn’t the way the Royals or their fans would like it to be, but it’s the current state of the franchise. Given a couple more years, I really hope they can turn that around, because their fans deserve to see a good product on the field after putting up with the team for so long (insert LOLable Loyal Royals rhyme here).
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
In what you describe...
the name players aren’t contributing to your granddad’s attendance, that’s the Yankees as opponent. Or the families in town for amusement parks, that’s time wasting with the kiddies.
So either way, you get the same crap attendance. His way, you sign guys like Kendall to give you less production than Corky Miller for two years and several million per. My way, it’s scrap heap vets and dozens of AAAAs hoping for a chance, on the extreme cheap. Kind of like Major League I guess. Rinse and repeat until your farm gets here with Moustakas, Hosmer, Myers, etc. At worst, you’re struggling to not lose 100 games and scrape by with attendance, same as they’ve been. At best, you hit a couple lottery tickets and can compete. Or you turn those lottery tickets at the trade deadline for more pieces on the farm, maybe hold a couple to be your vaunted veterans to show the kids the way once they arrive.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Without those type of guys...
The game could be skipped entirely. Unless you have a rabid baseball son or father (in my family’s case, both…), they could very easily lose out on attendance because they’re playing with a bunch of AAAA guys.
In my father’s case, the Yankees come to town once/year, but fortunately I saw all sorts of teams and players growing up. If my dad wasn’t a huge baseball guy and his favorite team was the Braves, Reds or Cubs, the baseball game might have been skipped.
They have to cater to as many people as possible just to get to 20K in attendance, all summer long. Trust me, it pays off for them in the long run to play people with name recognition rather than Joe Somebody.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
This. You can’t field a Major League team with people nobody has heard of. The average baseball fan doesn’t know that Jason Kendall isn’t good, they know that he’s been around for 15 years, so they’ll go see a team with him and other guys they’ve heard of. They won’t go see a team where they don’t recognize one name.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
I'm sure you can get recognizable names...
on 1 yr deals, and for less than $5m.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Also, ...
I’d add that having the long standing relationship with Omaha helps in Nebraska having a strong Royals fan base. Omaha is 50-75% of the state’s population to begin with, plus I always enjoyed it when I went to a couple of their games visiting my dad in the summer. The walk into Rosenblatt, with peacocks roaming the parking lot, was unforgettable.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Nebraska
1.8 million people estimated
Omaha
425,000 people estimated.
Approximately 23.6%
…and Omaha is only that big because it annexes suburbs to become part of Omaha’s population base.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
And the Omaha area is about 800,000,...
add Lincoln’s 250,000, which is only about an hour or two down the interstate, and that puts over 50% of the state’s population in that small % of it’s land size.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Loved Rosenblatt...
Sad to see it gone. The new stadium will be opened for the 2011 CWS. The Omaha Storm Chasers, that’s the new Omaha Royals name, will have a new park as well.
I do not think TD Ameritrade Stadium has the same ring as Rosenblatt, and I’ll miss being able to take in a ballgame and the zoo without parking twice. That was always a nice weekend getaway growing up, too.
Having two separate stadiums, one for the CWS and the other for the Storm Chasers, is pretty stupid, imo, but Rosenblatt was too big for the Royals to fill and maintain. The total capacity of their new digs is 9,000, which is probably more in line with what they should expect for attendance at a minor league game in NE.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
Why the name change?...
If I’m the Royals, we’re damn sure keeping not changing it.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Not sure...
Probably because of the new stadium.
Other reasons include that the team is basically owned by Warren Buffett and his childhood friend that is also a Berkshire Hathaway bigwig…the Royals are owned by former Wal-Mart CEO, so I’m sure there’s some potential differences in philosophy. They also changed their name to the Omaha Golden Spikes in 1999, but switched back because the fans didn’t like it.
Incidentally, I do really dislike the Royals owner. His first year as the CEO, they cut payroll in half and basically turned the company into a strictly profiteering business, like what many people claim Liberty or Loria or the Pirates are doing now (except he did it outright). He opposed any settlement that did not include a salary cap when the player strike occurred.
Then there’s all the Wal-Mart stuff, which I won’t get into.
-C
It’s rough to sit through these games and not have someone that can’t hit a Ball?
could it be that
those are guys that profile to have a huge upside for a really low cost.. if he doesnt care about this year he can afford for them to suck for the off chance that they can produce again..
it might be these guys only hope.. to play for a low pressure team, get confidence, then the team gets good and they have built the confidence on that team..
why do you say that?
There is reason to believe that Francoeur has a lot of upside, no matter how bitter we would be in atlanta if he found it elsewhere
I was the biggest Frenchy supporter out there, but at this point there’s really little hope of him becoming anything more than the undisciplined hitter he is.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Because guys like Jason Kendall...
Rick Ankiel, Melky Cabrera, Jeff Francouer, and other multi-million dollar signings Moore has brought in through free agency a) aren’t at “a really low cost”. They are in fact getting more than most anyone else was willing to offer. And b) don’t “have a huge upside”. They pretty much have no upside, and you are hoping against hope that they don’t continue what in almost all cases is a steady downward trend in production.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Let's see...this is they Royals Top-20 with grades from Sickels (pre-Greinke trade)
1) Mike Moustakas, 3B, Grade A: This guy is really damn good. I believe he can stick at third base, so he ranks ahead of Hosmer just barely.
2) Eric Hosmer, 1B, Grade A: This guy is really damn good.
3) Wil Myers, C, Grade A: If I trusted his defense a bit more, he would rank number one. As it is, even if he ends up in right field I have no hesitation giving him a Grade A rating. The bat should be outstanding.
4) Danny Duffy, LHP, Grade A-: Going to go with the higher grade here over a B+; fortune favors the bold.
5) John Lamb, LHP, Grade B+: Slippage in Double-A keeps him from A- at this time, but an outstanding prospect.
6) Michael Montgomery, LHP, Grade B+: Worried a bit about future of his elbow.
7) Chris Dwyer, LHP, Grade B: Almost went with a B+, but something holds me back a bit on him. Great stuff, but I’m not totally sold on his command yet.
8) Brett Eibner, OF, Grade B: I love the power bat; will have to see if contact is an issue and if he can stick in center.
9) Christian Colon, SS, Grade B: I doubt he’ll be a star, but I expect he can have a long career as a regular.
10) Johnny Giavotella, 2B, Grade B-: Love the bat, defense still needs some work but has improved a bit.
11) Louis Coleman, RHP, Grade B-: I know he’s a reliever, but he will be ready to help soon and I think there is a chance he could end up closing some games eventually. I think he is underrated and thus his grade is aggressive for a reliever.
12) Aaron Crow, RHP, Grade C+: Ranking him behind Coleman may look weird, but I am more confident that Coleman will be a good major league pitcher than I am in Crow right now, although Crow has a higher ceiling.
13) Tim Melville, RHP, Grade C+ Not a good year, but not as bad as it looked. Talent is still there.
14) Tim Collins, LHP, Grade C+: Can help in bullpen in 2011. Numbers are no fluke. Would rank ahead of Melville and even Crow if you are looking for immediate impact.
15) Patrick Keating, RHP, Grade C+: Overlooked arm with above average stuff. Royals have makings of a great pen with Coleman, Collins, and Keating all close to the majors.
16) Salvador Perez, C, Grade C+: I think he’s a breakthrough candidate.
17) Cheslor Cuthbert, 3B, Grade C+: Hard to rank. Scouts like him, he’s young, but the early numbers are weak. Would rank higher if you go by nothing but tools, wouldn’t be on the top 20 at all if you go by numbers, so this is a compromise.
18) Clint Robinson, 1B, Grade C+: I’ve seen enough of him to believe he can mash for power, but finding a place to play is tough.
19) Jeff Bianchi, INF, Grade C+: Hard to rank due to health record. He could end up being very good as soon as 2011 under the right circumstances.
20) David Lough, OF, Grade C+: Could be a nice fourth outfielder.
3 A’s from Sickels is ridiculous. Heck, the WHOLE AL West only has 2 A’s. This farm system is ridiculous. For perspective: Danny Duffy, at #4, would be OUR #2. Giavotella, the Royals #10, would be our #4. Easily. This system is STACKED.
It’s because Moore’s trying to build a SYSTEM while putting a team that can relatively compete and sell tickets while that SYSTEM matures.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 3, 2011 7:20 AM EST reply actions
You're missing
The pickups from the Greinke trade this offseason. Odorizzi would fit between 5-7 as he was a B+ for John, Jeffress was a straight B, and Cain was a B-/C+, so that’d put Aaron Crow as the #15 in their system. Baseball America’s podcast stated that Odorizzi fit in as #5 on their list, and he was the clear #1 in Milwaukee with Jeffress #3 and Cain #4. So three of the four best Brewers prospects were in that deal.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
apox....
….Moore has clearly been successful in building a system. Not so successful in putting a team on the field that can relatively compete and sell tickets while the system matures. And in 2011, they are going to be just horrible; they don’t have any pitchers. Good thing for them, they have a full future major league rotation in AA.
big question is
how do you transition a team into being a winning club without some good years and some winning players on there?
When he pulls all of them up in the next few years, what else is he going to do to transform the team into a winning ballclub?
Hard to believe he’s that low on Melville. That kid is gonna be good.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
That's not low...
He’s very stingy in grading. For the year Melville had, that’s a pretty good grade. He obviously believes in the talent to keep him at a C+
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Jan 3, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
You’re right. I’d forgotten that his grading system is ridiculous. Thanks for the reminder. So yeah, in that context he does think pretty well of Melville. I saw most of those Royals players this year and Melville was as impressive as any of them.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Melville
…is one guy that has certainly impressed me much more with the eye than the stats. I don’t know if I’ve seen good games or just highlights, but a guy racking up an okay-but-not-great K rate and sub-2 k/bb rate at A+ ball wouldn’t warrant even a C+ in Sickels’ grading scale. Hopefully the stats start to catch up to the talent.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
by biggentleben on Jan 3, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
actually
I saw him pitch a few times (as a UNC alum with some distant family in southern Illinois and Eastern Missouri) and he’s good but he’s NOT top-10 in a system good. Until he figures out how to consitently throw off speed stuff he’s never gonna be more than a decent AAA pitcher.
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 3, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I sure hope not.
The thought of Diory Hernandez, Brooks Conrad, and Joe Mather being the top utility IF options is nauseating, and it isn’t fair to Martin Prado to expect him to be a starting LF and backup IF. (That would also leave a hole in LF that Hinske could fill only against RHPs.)
I sure hope that Frank Wren isn’t done shopping just yet.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
about the hole in lf
i think we are hoping that young or constanza show that they are good fouth outfielders. If constanza can, he is a switch hitter and could back up prado with Hinske against lhp (if not start over him entirely—i have hope for this guy) the problem is that we want him to play for mclouth against lefties, since mclouth does pretty awful against them. Truth is, Hinske didnt do that poorly against lefties last year, much better than Mclouth..
If Prado is the main backup IF,
then we need someone much better than a typical “4th OF” to back up Prado. At least Hinske has a legitimate bat vs. RHP. Constanza had a .766 OPS in AAA as a 26 year old — not exactly a guy who screams “Left Field Bat!” in my ears. (Granted, the IL is a pitcher’s league, but zero power is zero power.)
I’m still hoping that Frank Wren can get DeRo from the Giants. That way, we would have a legitimate backup bat who (along with Prado) can play IF and OF. DeRo is a good 3B, and that’s where our greatest injury risk is.
Our greatest suckage risks are CF (which neither Prado or DeRo help with, though Shafer might) and 1B — less likely — which both can help at.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
i completely agree
ive been talking about it for a while.. if prado is going to be our primary infield sub, we need a better than 4th OF.. thats why we should have kept diaz.. but lets not get started on that…
I agree that he has no power, but his obp is high, which to me is the most important part about a replacement player. He can also steal a base, which is a weapon we need on the team anyway. His defense would also be an upgrade over anybody he comes in for in center, left, or maybe even RF (- the arm). I mean, infante’s ops was only higher than 750 one year he was with the braves (’10) and it was 775.
He is no infante, but what’s the value of a guy who hits for high average, average obp, and no power compared to a guy that hits for decent (maybe high) average, a high obp, no power, + base stealing ability and the ability to be a defensive upgrade in left or center. Infante was a great utility defender, but he wasn’t an upgrade anywhere he played.
I just don't particularly trust DeRosa...
…and don’t think he will be cheap in financial terms. He really hasn’t hit outside of very good hitter’s parks in Chicago and Texas. For the money, I like Andruw as the fourth OF. Of course, our opinions on this could be swayed by who we personally like more given my admitted love of Andruw and the fact that your handle is DeRoMyHero, lol.
The financial terms are likely to be the sticking point.
I think that the Phillies and Yankees will both be in the bidding, and the Yankees have their entire pile of Cliff Lee money sitting around unused. (The Phils will also have some loot if they can unload Blanton’s contract.)
I think that, once Pavano signs and Blanton is traded, Brian Sabean is going to put DeRo on the auction block. The Cards only have about $1M, so they’re probably out. The Braves have only about $1.5M, so they might be out too, unless… The Phils and Yanks will probably be willing to take on $3M, since they are both “all in”. The “unless”? What if Wren sent a better prospect in exchange for taking on less salary? He could not only get DeRo, but keep him from the Phils as well. (Charlie Manuel has coveted DeRo for a long time.)
I would love to see Andruw back as well (I want both!), depending on how much weight he has lost, if he can still play CF, and how much $ he wants.
Assuming that DeRo can still play a “passable” SS on a once-a-week basis (don’t see why he can’t since he still has the arm strength and the great hands, and he has played a lot of 2B and 3B recently), and Andruw can still play a “passable” CF vs. LHPs, the bench would be: Ross, DeRo, Andruw, Hinske, and one of (Mather, Conrad, Hernandez). DeRo would be a better hitter than Diory in any park, including Yellowstone, and he is certainly a better defensive IF at any position than Brooks.
One more reason for bringing back DeRo: .448/.485/.724/1.209, 33-PA, 5-2B, 1-HR
That’s DeRo’s ownage of Roy Oswalt.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
if things stay as they are
This is our 25:
Prado
McLouth
Chipper
Uggla
McCann
Heyward
Gonzalez
Freeman
Or
Prado
Heyward
Chip
McCann
Uggla
Freeman
Gonzalez
McLouth
Young will be the 4th OF.
Schafer will go the minors no matter how good he does in ST.
Neither Minor, Beachy, or Jurrjens will be traded. They will all be kept for depth.
by drumzalicious on Jan 3, 2011 3:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
That’s not even close to 25.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
lol
Yea I got tired of typing on my phone
by drumzalicious on Jan 3, 2011 4:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fair enough. Rarely do I hear that honest and appropriate a response. Well played.
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
To be honest our 25 probably looks like so...
1 McCann
2 Ross
3 Freeman
4 Hinske
5 Uggla
6 Gonzalez
7 Chipper
8 Heyward
9 McLouth
10 Prado
11 Mather
12/13 [see below]
14 Hudson
15 Hanson
16 Lowe
17 Jurrjens
18 Minor/Beachy
19 Kimbrel
20 Venters
21 Linebrink
22 Moylan
23 Sherrill
24 O’Flaherty
25 Proctor (or Martinez, Marek, Cordier, etc, but most likely Marek due to his contract)
For 12/13, I’d assume Conrad has one, but not certain because of defensive needs, but right now in the mix with him would be Diory, Hicks, and Lucas for the IF spot, then Schafer, Young, Costanza, and others for the OF spot.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
meant to say most likely PROCTOR due to his contract
and I wouldn’t be surprised if we add another veteran with experience at SS or CF to the bench mix to lock up one of the two spots, depending on how much of Kawakami’s contract can be unloaded and when.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Its still a long time until ST and I don’t believe we should assume things are all that likley to stay as they are (or appear to be) today. But with that observation, and excluding the possibility of injuries or inexplicable “Steve Blass disease” -type meltdowns, here is my take:
#1-10,14-17, and 19-24 – for a total of 20 – are virtually 100% locks.
The 5th starter spot is almost 100% definitely going to either Minor or Beachy, but if its Minor, Beachy could very well make the team as a reliever.
The last 1 bullpen spot (or maybe the last 2 bullpen spots) and I’d think the last 3 bench spots are fairly open, and subject to the possibility of additional moves and a spirited ST competition to not necessarily be limited to the players you’ve identified – although you did nail the presumptively leading candidates.
I think Beachy would be stretched out if he doesn't win the 5th starter spot...
one or the other needs to be getting stretched out in AAA because we just don’t have the excess if Kawakami is out of the mix. But we do have the excess in relief arms so the need isn’t there, and with Beachy’s career as mostly a reliever, it’s probably a good idea to start him as a starter as that is where he has the most “value” (see Saltalamacchia, among others).
As for Proctor and Mather, I agree they aren’t as solid locks as 1-10 and 14-24 (considering either Minor or Beachy are a lock for 18). But both are on MLB contracts and seem like they’ll have to lose the spots instead of win them in camp. I’d say Mather is closer to a lock than Proctor because of his versatility for the bench and Proctor having much better competition for his spot in Martinez, Marek, and others.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
can mather actually play center field?
no theres no way we will take a team with just mather as the back up CF and Mclouth as a starter right?
haha what im saying is
wont we need that rosterspot for an OF?
if we take Mather
doesnt that necessitate taht we take Diory or Hicks over Conrad, since we have to have a back up SS?
Depends on if they think Conrad can help in the OF corners...
or if Mather can help at SS or CF, or the other bench spot.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
can conrad play LF?
I mean, he is a switch hitter, it would be a really great thing to have him on the club..
damnit mather, you better be amazing in spring training so i dont get pissed about us taking you over someone else
Considering the stiffs stuck out there over the years...
both for the Braves and everyone else, who can’t “play LF”?
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
like fandave I agree with 20 of the spots being 100%
If 12 is the infield spot, I agree its between Conrad, Diory and Hicks – though if Mather makes the team, it will cut conrad because we will need a backup SS. This might also be a spot that sees a minor trade for more ST competition, in fact, I would say its where we need it most, we have plenty of guys competing for CF…
If 13 is the outfield spot, I’d agree, its Schafer, Young, and Constanza mostly battling it out
18 as the 5th starter, for sure between beachy and Minor, but I would think they might also factor into…
25, the long relief role. I mean, proctor needs to show something to make the team, we have too much talent to just take him because of contract. I think if Beachy doesnt become a starter, but he performs really well, that it will be hard not to give him the long relief role
Costanza
is very interesting to me. He is pretty old but has good minor league numbers. Great speed, gets on base, doesn’t strike out a lot, but has very little power. Why hasn’t he had any major league experience? I guess he was like the Matt Young of the Indians, but did the Indians have better options? Seems like I’m missing something. I’m excited to see him and Young get a shot for the fourth OF
I could care less about his contract. Put the best team on the field. I would love Martinez to be the last bp arm.
by drumzalicious on Jan 4, 2011 11:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
"I could care less about his contract"...
that’s you. The Braves FO probably wants a return for their money, and thus contracts will be factored in to the decision, especially if all else is equal production wise.
http://sportsandgrits.blogspot.com/
Who was the one obsessed with couldn’t care less? Was that Smotlz’s Beard?
I wrote a novel, it's about baseball, you should buy it:
http://www.amazon.com/Four-C-B-Wilkins/dp/1449578454/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1257720610&sr=1-1
www.dropoutproductions.com
Maybe
Or maybe me. It’s always been a pet peeve of mine.
"If I have asthma, they won't let me scuba. And if I can’t scuba, then what’s this all been about?? What am I working toward??"
"You look like you should be married to one of the San Diego Padres."
That's what I'm Talking About!!
The reason I am putting these fan posts on here is to let all the Braves fans, yes, even the condescending ones, have a chance to say what the feel. While I appreciate all the feedback, good or bad, I have no one else in my family interested in sports, so this is my outlet, so to speak. Feel free to voice your opinions and lets keep this ball rolling. The Braves are my favorite team, and I love spit balling ideas with those who actually know what they are talking about. Thanks for reading, and let’s get another DYNASTY back in Atlanta!!!!!!! Go BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!
Off topic
But anyone see Cargo for the Rockies might get a 7 year 80 mil deal. Any chance Heyward gets this type of deal down the road or much more? i think if he continues to be a man child that would be an absolute steal for Heyward
by PhuckthePhillies on Jan 3, 2011 10:52 PM EST reply actions
that's a good deal for the Rockies
by apoxonbothyourhouses on Jan 4, 2011 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Not if that BAbip drops and he isn’t quite the elite player he seemed to be last year.
by drumzalicious on Jan 4, 2011 11:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
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